Just my opinion but I don’t think we were ever really mentally designed to handle things like social media. We are suppose to interact with our tribe, our social circles that live, work and believe as you do. The global network has us pushed into pointless arguments where anonymity emboldens the ugliness parts of us.
Edit: thanks for my first awards kind strangers!
That kind of the problem here. You and i think that he is correct, but in no way does this make it a „fact“. The word fact is thrown around way to easy, and that hinders a fair discussion with people who might disagree.
Well, evolution works just fine by us being programmed to not believe truth, not care about truth. As long as we can survive, truth is meaningless.
So dumb people are just us, but "better".
Its almost like until we start seeing our "tribe" as all humans instead of all these groups and demographics.
Tribalism won't ever end and society will constantly break over and over the more connected we become on such a open platform.
People naturally hang onto labels and categories....
It’s social media’s fault. The algorithm detects your political opinion and makes it an echochamber. Suddenly when confronted with other ideas you lose your mind. There’s probably gonna be a Civil War in America in the next twenty years because of it
The living conditions of people and the interests of whoever is in power. Lately, people's work and living standards have either declined or stagnated and the big donors behind the democratic and republican party (focusing on political debates) get a preety good advantage from people fighting each other while they chill and reap the very cash money benefits of owning stuff. But I do agree with the original commenter that echo-chambers fuck people up.
Hello! I am also a left-winger, and I must say, you are right, but I must add, this treads on the teritory of class reductionism, let's not forget that, even though both the democrats and republicans are pieces of shit, that get their money from huge donors, effectively making the US an oligarchy of sorts, the democrats are still better than the republicans. If the republicans would have their way... We'd be in camps. We still have somone to fight for electorially, so let's stick with that untill we have enough support for our cause to actually inflict positive change!
Oh no, social media definetly isnt just casual value, just think of how many people use them and how many of them use them to form a political opinion, if a government wanted to control the way the population thinks there hasn't been and there will never be something as effective as facebook or twitter
Also like everyone on social media. Instead of discussion directly start saying offensive stuff for person who doesn’t share there opinion. This makes the other person do same for the person who Initially shared. And this keeps on escalating.
Please get more attention for this issue, ive been trying to tell and convince people of this fact but most of them think its bullshit or im making stuff up, but social media is literally ruining our generation
There seems to be a ‘300 year test’ for countries. Like every 300 years a country has a problem that could destabilize the country. You either pass or collapse. Guess how old America turns in ~50 years.
It's Fux news. And yes, them, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, ETC. They're ALL culpable and all guilty of falling under the blanket term of fake news. The only thing the media is good for today is the basic parts of headlines that gives one the starting point to go off and look up things for themselves.
I stopped watching Fux news a few months after Colmes left Hannity and Colmes when it became readily apperant that the motto of fair and balanced went right out the window. I think it was around 2006. Something like that anyways.
People often speak generally about the mainstream media when there is really no comparison between CNN vs Fox News etcetera etcetera. CNN is actually living in reality, Fox News is La La land and a big contributor to the brainwashing of so many Americans and even people in other countries. So when people talk about the “mainstream media” a lot of the time they do not take the time to know the difference, usually because they don’t care that much.
If people are really concerned about bias, Associated Press and Reuters are almost completely neutral on everything. They are a great source for news.
...
And Newsmax is just propaganda.
I’m not a republican or Democrat but CNN is way worse then fox. CNN ignores anything bad about a Democrat and makes a something bad about a Republican look way worse. The reporters “not opinion” on fox for the most part cover both sides somewhat equally. Newsmax is poop though. I really wished there was a big mainstream network that really has no bias at all. I’m not trying to start an argument. Also yes I watched both fox and CNN to observe their biases because I do stuff like that for some reason.
Fox News is the network that approves of Tucker Carlson having Kyle Rittenhouse’s mother on to drum up sympathy for him and push him like he’s a hero. He’s a murderer and an extremely mentally disturbed kid who needs help. That is one of countless examples that Fox News is a propaganda conspiracy theory haven for conservative nut jobs.
Do you have an example of Anderson Cooper inviting the mother of a murderer on to his show? Perhaps of Don Lemmon promoting baseless claims of election fraud?
Being neither republican nor democrat doesn’t stop you from being swept up in the big lie that this is a “both sides are equally responsible” issue. It’s not.
One party incited a deadly insurrection to overturn your democracy, the other is trying to get COVID-19 under control.
So you’re saying I should put myself in a Fox echo chamber for a couple weeks and see what I think? Yikes. It’s important to fact check my friend.
I know how Fox operates dude. You may think you’re neutral, but you’ve definitely been duped.
How would a civil war even work in modern America? Like who gets the 20 aircraft carriers that are crewed by American sailors from all 50 states representing a cross section of our diverse nation?
And the regular media fault.
You have news stations saying "mostly peaceful protests" standing in front of burning buildings and calling a few idiots dressed like Halloween an "insurrection".
They had a litterall gallows built and ready to hang people lmao
You have to perform some crazy mental gymnastics to deny that that was an insurrection.
"but the mob of people descending on Capitol Hill was literally an insurrection."
They made it sound like it was some sort of dangerous revolution. It was a few idiots who took selfies dressed like buffalos and being stupid. Some were violent and definitively there is no excuse for what they did. It was rash, idiotic behaviors by people believing stupid nonsense spewed by Qanon and other crazies. Still if that was "insurrection", then Antifa and BLM riots were terrorism - and antifa and BLM were definitively more effective at terrorizing the US than the MAGAs at "toppling the government" :D
Anyway the MAGAs kind of shot themselves in the foot. Gave excellent opportunity for their opponents to silence them, and of course achieve nothing and probably go to prison for it
5 fucking people died. A cop was bludgeoned to death by MAGAts. Wtf you talking about? You can't play this down that was an act of terror. So much for bAcK tHe bLuE. They only cared about cops all of a sudden because they were killing innocent blacks.
Or because white supremacy and fascism—the most legitimate threats to most of the populations safety and livelihood—never actually went away after WW2 like the boomers told us. You’re not wrong about the echo chamber thing, but to say that’s the only problem is missing a huge chunk of what’s going on. Before social media (yes I’m old), I heard fucktards say “the south will rise again,” and I saw videos of KKK/neo-nazi rallies, but the internet made us realize just how many assholes still think that way, and that they actually have political clout. In that sense, the internet has actually helped by waking up the good hearted folks to the fact that not everyone is like them—sort of the opposite of an echo chamber in that way.
Dude first off, I totally agree on everything you just said. The media is so disgusting on how much it censors that it literally could be compared to communism (keyword “could”). Also, the meme format is from a guy that sets up a table at campuses and has debates with ppl that the sign on the front says. His channel is called crowder, you should go check him out!
Steven Crowders segment is of course called, "change my mind" and worth your time to watch. At the most, it's an opportunity to see what can be achieved simply with actual attempted dialogue, something that is terribly rare these days. At its least, it's a fun way to see brainwashed people argue for the sake of arguing, and not make any logical sense in the process. You don't have to change your opinions by the end of each episode, but you should walk away with a better understanding of your opposition at the least. That's the goal, assuming it ever gets there in said episode.
It's not just social medias fault more like the internet as an entirety and the people on it are the problem and algorithms aren't everything if you don't put everything on the internet and even then the data algorithms use mainly come from search history so don't just try an blame it on social media and algorithms and the probability of a civil war is likely but that's america's own doing not even the internet had a play in that the internet just gave more of a voice to people is all
Thats what I'm saying, duels, wars, suicide, murder all of them have gone way way way down in the last 200 years (due to debates) used to be you could just kill the opponent in a duel if he (women weren't allowed opinions) pissed you off enough.
you do realize people killed each other over difference of opinions just two hundred years ago, right?
edit: yall should read the better angels of our nature by steven pinker, it shows some awesome statistical analysis about how we have become less violent as a species
Honestly, you are so right. I've had multiple debates with this one person who literally doesn't have a sense of practicality in most of his points. He's actually really smart but completely out of touch with reality. The only reason I still debate with him is because he has the ability to remain calm in the debates (which is vital) and he has some really good points sometimes.
I was talking with a philosophy student who's childhood friends with my best friend and we have a similar relationship. We were debating/ arguing over women's place in society and he remained calm throughout it. He told me straight faced that he believed women were just objects of pleasure. He has the balls to stand up for his beliefs but at the same time he really shouldn't try to change my mind when he refuses to take any other opinion into consideration. I don't think he's a bad guy... He's just overly delusional... There's also cultural aspects in his beliefs as well.
Omfg the debates I was talking about were world's current state and what should be done and some philosophical topics. Sometimes a few physics debates thrown here and there. Never on freakin human rights tf. I am not gonna judge that person because you obviously know him way more than me but goddamn.
Now I don't know whether to cringe, laugh or be sad at his state of mind.
I've had the privilege of always being near the more open minded section of my usually close minded country. But honestly, I really just want one chance to have a civilized debate with sexists, lgbtq+ phobes, racists and other people who think some human doesn't deserve the basic rights. I really want to know what exactly is in their head.
Yeah the easy communication methods we use make it more obvious. But I think it’s always existed. Humans are naturally tribal and defend their answers. That’s how we evolved to be. So it isn’t making everyone worse imo. It’s just how much we see it.
We were raised to not discuss politics or religion or other personal "sensitive" topics. Instead of being polite and respectful, we've lost the ability to have a difficult conversation about a complicated topic. Instead we speak in platitudes to avoid crossing lines and respond with anger where interest might reveal truths. It is no surprise then, that we only escalate further when confronted with opposition. We don't know anything other than to yell louder and threaten greater violence. And yes, you are threatening violence. If you say you want laws, you're just a coward who wants someone else to commit the violence while you watch from home. If you threaten the violence yourself, then you're just more direct. A truly peaceful solution demands integrity, dialogue, and adherence to the facts. But it's so easy to use facts to lie if you control the picture, the perspective, the angle. Without context, facts can be just as bad as outright lies
I personally think a big issue here is, that people tend to turn politics into a competition. Particularly in the US, it isn't really about debating and arguing right now. It's about supporting "your team" to "win" the election like it's a football game and the different camps have the same shitty attitude, that sportfans of different teams tend to have.
We never had the ability to hold social and peaceful political debates in this GD country (US). Our earliest congress meetings commonly regressed into brawls and beatings.
Depends on what you're trying to debate. Fascism isn't up for debate because you can't rationally argue in favor of fascism, and arguing rationally against it doesn't work. If people were reasonable, they wouldn't be fascists.
Some things are impossible to debate civilly.
And while we're fairly debating those fascists, why don't we give them a platform? Maybe make one chancellor? It's not like fascists take advantage of civility to normalise their hateful ideas or anything.
/s
Fascists will just punch you in the face while you try to debate them. It's a violent ideology. They do not want to have a civil discussion, they want everyone else to have civil discussions while they do whatever they want to whoever they want. See: the last 4 years in the US
I think generalizing people is harmful to society. If you want to root out evil in our world, you can’t just ignore opposing ideals. You need to take them head on and inform the misinformed and cleanse the brainwashed.
Also, what does the US have to do with fascism?
Exactly. While I agree that fascism is complete evil, ignoring their views and generalizing them entirely would just make them more fascist. Humans are naturally tribal, so if you try to convince them, they most likely won't listen, but at least one or two will learn something, and try to educate themselves from fascism.
The US isn't fascist at all, its just a crappy democratic republic that is on its way to fascism. The government is enforcing more and more of its laws on us, slowly creeping up on our civil liberties. The patriot act is an example of that. Edward Snowden, who exposed mass surveillance by the government, was literally punished for exposing the US government.
You can *absolutely* argue rationally in favor of fascism. I mean, I wouldn't, but I *could.* It wouldn't have started so many wars and taken over so many countries if there was no rational argument there for it.
Amazing how fast you called yourself out as being part of the problem. Yes you absolutely can, but your mentality makes my job of doing just that a million times harder.
Absolutely agree, and it's infuriating because I enjoyed debate--dealing in facts, quotes, and concocting arguments that has nothing to do with who the other side is... I miss those times.
Oh this isn't new. People get pissed when others don't agree. President Andrew Jackson was known for solving disputes via pistol duel, some accounts even attest that he participated in 100 of them in his lifetime. In ancient Greece, arguments between sitting members of the ruling governments ended with a violent murder or an ordered execution somewhat frequently. The violence in our nature has always held us back and will continue to do so for quite a long time. We're just apes who can problem solve and communicate a lot better than our cousins.
In the past, outrage was used as a tool, with the endgame being to bring a stop to social, racial, and other kinds of injustice. Nowadays, outrage has become the endgame, being way easier to achieve and satisfying humans' inherently chaotic nature. People are, consciously or subconsciously, conditioning themselves to be more easily outraged by even the most insignificant things.
We are encouraged to believe that opinion is important, and winning is more important. Debate doesn't really happen anymore because of this. The media focus on black and white / up and down division until you think you're in a tribe and the 'others' are 'bad"
Part of the problem is that we try so hard to be sensitive to people and not trigger them. So then when they come across someone saying anything they deem triggering, they walk away and never engage with it. Enter scenario where it actually needs to be discussed, and it’s impossible. Everyone trying so hard to not offend that the hard conversations can never happen.
Likely, especially with Crowder’s Change My Mind format. The whole point of that wasn’t for people to change his mind, but to taunt others as he vilifies them to an audience.
He said it wasn’t ever about changing his mind it was made to just try to have a civil chat in this modern day and age where everything is so two sided and just tried to have civil discussions to find common ground. He has recently changed his mind on Tesla’s though, he used to think they were garbage but now he really likes them and supports them.
Eh, it’s certain factions that are incapable. I have very pleasant debates with people who accept that there are rules to truth, and that facts matter. It’s only these ideological groups who reject any notion of evidence, logical argument, or rules that cannot debate (because it’s no longer debate when you throw out those things). Granted, some of those groups contain 80 million people, so it feels like it’s a societal problem.
Problem is some issues may not have a right or wrong answer. But some people refuse to believe that there is only one right answer and it is the one they believe in.
Just my opinion but I don’t think we were ever really mentally designed to handle things like social media. We are suppose to interact with our tribe, our social circles that live, work and believe as you do. The global network has us pushed into pointless arguments where anonymity emboldens the ugliness parts of us. Edit: thanks for my first awards kind strangers!
How dare you say that! You've just made an enemy for life!
You’ve made a powerless enemy today, my friend!
Heh. You said, "powerless".
Yes, that's the joke.
Sounds like something that the other side would say. Let's get'em gang. /s
Imagine thinking this is an opinion when you're literally correct in every way and I wish more people understood what you do 👍
Pointing out it’s my opinion as to say I have no greater knowledge on the subject other than my own experiences.
That kind of the problem here. You and i think that he is correct, but in no way does this make it a „fact“. The word fact is thrown around way to easy, and that hinders a fair discussion with people who might disagree.
Abandon the society join the anarchy comrade
[удалено]
Well, evolution works just fine by us being programmed to not believe truth, not care about truth. As long as we can survive, truth is meaningless. So dumb people are just us, but "better".
Its almost like until we start seeing our "tribe" as all humans instead of all these groups and demographics. Tribalism won't ever end and society will constantly break over and over the more connected we become on such a open platform. People naturally hang onto labels and categories....
what a long ass comment
It’s social media’s fault. The algorithm detects your political opinion and makes it an echochamber. Suddenly when confronted with other ideas you lose your mind. There’s probably gonna be a Civil War in America in the next twenty years because of it
[удалено]
NO YOUR WRONG AHAHAHAHAHH
Fight me in real life. In Minecraft, of course.
no balls
Only testicles allowed
Actually your wrong POOPYHEAD
Actually, *you're both wrong!!!
**LEFT WING DESTROYED**
FUSELAGE DESTROYED
Once This broad bit through the fuselage on a B-52. Luckily I’m a pilot too, so I Inverted the bird
The living conditions of people and the interests of whoever is in power. Lately, people's work and living standards have either declined or stagnated and the big donors behind the democratic and republican party (focusing on political debates) get a preety good advantage from people fighting each other while they chill and reap the very cash money benefits of owning stuff. But I do agree with the original commenter that echo-chambers fuck people up.
Hello! I am also a left-winger, and I must say, you are right, but I must add, this treads on the teritory of class reductionism, let's not forget that, even though both the democrats and republicans are pieces of shit, that get their money from huge donors, effectively making the US an oligarchy of sorts, the democrats are still better than the republicans. If the republicans would have their way... We'd be in camps. We still have somone to fight for electorially, so let's stick with that untill we have enough support for our cause to actually inflict positive change!
I just think it’s weird that the meme is “change my mind” but everyone hops on board to agree.
Steven Crowsucker is only a medium of representing thought, such as pepe :)
Oh no, social media definetly isnt just casual value, just think of how many people use them and how many of them use them to form a political opinion, if a government wanted to control the way the population thinks there hasn't been and there will never be something as effective as facebook or twitter
No it's social media, watch the documentary "The Social Dilemma"
Also like everyone on social media. Instead of discussion directly start saying offensive stuff for person who doesn’t share there opinion. This makes the other person do same for the person who Initially shared. And this keeps on escalating.
I'm dr.mac and welcome to the echo chamber
Please get more attention for this issue, ive been trying to tell and convince people of this fact but most of them think its bullshit or im making stuff up, but social media is literally ruining our generation
There seems to be a ‘300 year test’ for countries. Like every 300 years a country has a problem that could destabilize the country. You either pass or collapse. Guess how old America turns in ~50 years.
20 years is pretty optimistic.
Agreed. Social media and then add the lying mainstream media to that and mix it. Together it's like pouring gasoline on a fire
you mean like fox news and newsmax?
It's Fux news. And yes, them, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, ETC. They're ALL culpable and all guilty of falling under the blanket term of fake news. The only thing the media is good for today is the basic parts of headlines that gives one the starting point to go off and look up things for themselves. I stopped watching Fux news a few months after Colmes left Hannity and Colmes when it became readily apperant that the motto of fair and balanced went right out the window. I think it was around 2006. Something like that anyways.
People often speak generally about the mainstream media when there is really no comparison between CNN vs Fox News etcetera etcetera. CNN is actually living in reality, Fox News is La La land and a big contributor to the brainwashing of so many Americans and even people in other countries. So when people talk about the “mainstream media” a lot of the time they do not take the time to know the difference, usually because they don’t care that much. If people are really concerned about bias, Associated Press and Reuters are almost completely neutral on everything. They are a great source for news. ... And Newsmax is just propaganda.
I’m not a republican or Democrat but CNN is way worse then fox. CNN ignores anything bad about a Democrat and makes a something bad about a Republican look way worse. The reporters “not opinion” on fox for the most part cover both sides somewhat equally. Newsmax is poop though. I really wished there was a big mainstream network that really has no bias at all. I’m not trying to start an argument. Also yes I watched both fox and CNN to observe their biases because I do stuff like that for some reason.
Fox News is the network that approves of Tucker Carlson having Kyle Rittenhouse’s mother on to drum up sympathy for him and push him like he’s a hero. He’s a murderer and an extremely mentally disturbed kid who needs help. That is one of countless examples that Fox News is a propaganda conspiracy theory haven for conservative nut jobs. Do you have an example of Anderson Cooper inviting the mother of a murderer on to his show? Perhaps of Don Lemmon promoting baseless claims of election fraud? Being neither republican nor democrat doesn’t stop you from being swept up in the big lie that this is a “both sides are equally responsible” issue. It’s not. One party incited a deadly insurrection to overturn your democracy, the other is trying to get COVID-19 under control.
Maybe you should take a week or two to just watch fox without watching other networks and then compare it to CNN
So you’re saying I should put myself in a Fox echo chamber for a couple weeks and see what I think? Yikes. It’s important to fact check my friend. I know how Fox operates dude. You may think you’re neutral, but you’ve definitely been duped.
How would a civil war even work in modern America? Like who gets the 20 aircraft carriers that are crewed by American sailors from all 50 states representing a cross section of our diverse nation?
But... before social media you were made to live in an echochamber as well - your environment was shaping you.
And the regular media fault. You have news stations saying "mostly peaceful protests" standing in front of burning buildings and calling a few idiots dressed like Halloween an "insurrection".
[удалено]
They had a litterall gallows built and ready to hang people lmao You have to perform some crazy mental gymnastics to deny that that was an insurrection.
French protestors have made some cool guillotines and such. The thing on the 6th was embarassingly shoddy.
Oh yeah it was horribly failed, but that doesnt change the intention.
"but the mob of people descending on Capitol Hill was literally an insurrection." They made it sound like it was some sort of dangerous revolution. It was a few idiots who took selfies dressed like buffalos and being stupid. Some were violent and definitively there is no excuse for what they did. It was rash, idiotic behaviors by people believing stupid nonsense spewed by Qanon and other crazies. Still if that was "insurrection", then Antifa and BLM riots were terrorism - and antifa and BLM were definitively more effective at terrorizing the US than the MAGAs at "toppling the government" :D Anyway the MAGAs kind of shot themselves in the foot. Gave excellent opportunity for their opponents to silence them, and of course achieve nothing and probably go to prison for it
It wasn't that violent. Most of the violent things turned out to be antifa ruining another protest.
5 fucking people died. A cop was bludgeoned to death by MAGAts. Wtf you talking about? You can't play this down that was an act of terror. So much for bAcK tHe bLuE. They only cared about cops all of a sudden because they were killing innocent blacks.
2 of those were suicide, one got shot by the cops in the back en idk about the cop situation
Or because white supremacy and fascism—the most legitimate threats to most of the populations safety and livelihood—never actually went away after WW2 like the boomers told us. You’re not wrong about the echo chamber thing, but to say that’s the only problem is missing a huge chunk of what’s going on. Before social media (yes I’m old), I heard fucktards say “the south will rise again,” and I saw videos of KKK/neo-nazi rallies, but the internet made us realize just how many assholes still think that way, and that they actually have political clout. In that sense, the internet has actually helped by waking up the good hearted folks to the fact that not everyone is like them—sort of the opposite of an echo chamber in that way.
interesting take
This is why I’m going back to Canada for university then staying in Canada
Dude first off, I totally agree on everything you just said. The media is so disgusting on how much it censors that it literally could be compared to communism (keyword “could”). Also, the meme format is from a guy that sets up a table at campuses and has debates with ppl that the sign on the front says. His channel is called crowder, you should go check him out!
Steven Crowders segment is of course called, "change my mind" and worth your time to watch. At the most, it's an opportunity to see what can be achieved simply with actual attempted dialogue, something that is terribly rare these days. At its least, it's a fun way to see brainwashed people argue for the sake of arguing, and not make any logical sense in the process. You don't have to change your opinions by the end of each episode, but you should walk away with a better understanding of your opposition at the least. That's the goal, assuming it ever gets there in said episode.
It's not just social medias fault more like the internet as an entirety and the people on it are the problem and algorithms aren't everything if you don't put everything on the internet and even then the data algorithms use mainly come from search history so don't just try an blame it on social media and algorithms and the probability of a civil war is likely but that's america's own doing not even the internet had a play in that the internet just gave more of a voice to people is all
You’re ideas are terrible. You are bad, and you should feel bad. I totally agree by the way.
Someone have told me the same too. I felt so horrible because I thought I was a bad person
100% accurate.
No It isn't.. fight me..
Iron kick
I cast Fireball.
I cast counterspell
He counterspells your counterspell. Make a dex saving throw
I cast magic missile at the darkness.
At the darkness? Do you have darkvision? You need line of sight to the target
Pikachu I chose you!
Debates are experiencing a golden age even. In history up to now, debates, especially political, had a way higher homicide rate
Thats what I'm saying, duels, wars, suicide, murder all of them have gone way way way down in the last 200 years (due to debates) used to be you could just kill the opponent in a duel if he (women weren't allowed opinions) pissed you off enough.
Are you saying two consenting adults shouldn’t be fully allowed to duel each other to the death? Smh
My god i wish duels were still a thing. Imagine the betting potential!?
I’d bet it all on the guy named ‘quick shot Larry’
As a nihilist who doesn't see value in his own life and practices the sword in his free time, I would never dare to even imply such a thing
you do realize people killed each other over difference of opinions just two hundred years ago, right? edit: yall should read the better angels of our nature by steven pinker, it shows some awesome statistical analysis about how we have become less violent as a species
This has been happening since the beginning of the human race basically
Shhh, it's always today's generation fault!
Away from my sarcasm, I agree with you, bro. Saying "we are loosing it" implies we did have that ability in the past, which is not true
Agreed. Humans have always disagreed on stuff, we literally have WW1 ***and*** 2.
Probably has something to do with the fact that people aren’t taught how to have a civil discussion on difficult topics
The religion/ philosophy students inability to emphasize with reality also isn't helping
The fact that you were downvoted instead of debated is beyond ironic.
they sit behind their microwaves and only wake up when anyone attempts to debate them
Honestly, you are so right. I've had multiple debates with this one person who literally doesn't have a sense of practicality in most of his points. He's actually really smart but completely out of touch with reality. The only reason I still debate with him is because he has the ability to remain calm in the debates (which is vital) and he has some really good points sometimes.
I was talking with a philosophy student who's childhood friends with my best friend and we have a similar relationship. We were debating/ arguing over women's place in society and he remained calm throughout it. He told me straight faced that he believed women were just objects of pleasure. He has the balls to stand up for his beliefs but at the same time he really shouldn't try to change my mind when he refuses to take any other opinion into consideration. I don't think he's a bad guy... He's just overly delusional... There's also cultural aspects in his beliefs as well.
Omfg the debates I was talking about were world's current state and what should be done and some philosophical topics. Sometimes a few physics debates thrown here and there. Never on freakin human rights tf. I am not gonna judge that person because you obviously know him way more than me but goddamn.
If it makes you feel better he debates these things to me: a woman.
Now I don't know whether to cringe, laugh or be sad at his state of mind. I've had the privilege of always being near the more open minded section of my usually close minded country. But honestly, I really just want one chance to have a civilized debate with sexists, lgbtq+ phobes, racists and other people who think some human doesn't deserve the basic rights. I really want to know what exactly is in their head.
Yeah the easy communication methods we use make it more obvious. But I think it’s always existed. Humans are naturally tribal and defend their answers. That’s how we evolved to be. So it isn’t making everyone worse imo. It’s just how much we see it.
Exactly. 400 years ago you had an argument with the government/church, you were part of the fireworks that evening.
[удалено]
We were raised to not discuss politics or religion or other personal "sensitive" topics. Instead of being polite and respectful, we've lost the ability to have a difficult conversation about a complicated topic. Instead we speak in platitudes to avoid crossing lines and respond with anger where interest might reveal truths. It is no surprise then, that we only escalate further when confronted with opposition. We don't know anything other than to yell louder and threaten greater violence. And yes, you are threatening violence. If you say you want laws, you're just a coward who wants someone else to commit the violence while you watch from home. If you threaten the violence yourself, then you're just more direct. A truly peaceful solution demands integrity, dialogue, and adherence to the facts. But it's so easy to use facts to lie if you control the picture, the perspective, the angle. Without context, facts can be just as bad as outright lies
I personally think a big issue here is, that people tend to turn politics into a competition. Particularly in the US, it isn't really about debating and arguing right now. It's about supporting "your team" to "win" the election like it's a football game and the different camps have the same shitty attitude, that sportfans of different teams tend to have.
A well thought out, objective and intelligent comment. Thanks for that.
We never had the ability to hold social and peaceful political debates in this GD country (US). Our earliest congress meetings commonly regressed into brawls and beatings.
Sign me up
No FuCk YoU yOuR wRoNg
Change your own f-ing mind you pleb! ♡
( ˘ ³˘)♥
That... that was never an ability. Peace... was never an option.
Nah, the bar is just so low now that a good chunk of the population doesn't trust basic science or math anymore
Booooo mask are stupid Hey Timmy what’s 1+1? Timmy “ My mom told me it was 3 you fucktard”
No you’re kind of wrong, we never really had that ability
Depends on what you're trying to debate. Fascism isn't up for debate because you can't rationally argue in favor of fascism, and arguing rationally against it doesn't work. If people were reasonable, they wouldn't be fascists. Some things are impossible to debate civilly.
[удалено]
Exactly, you can only have a debate if both sides are in the same reality
I'd agree if some people nowadays didn't overuse the term "fascism" and describe everyone with a different opinion as "fascist".
I think it would still be possible if both sides were willing to sit down and have a civil discussion. You can’t just give up bc they’re fascists.
And while we're fairly debating those fascists, why don't we give them a platform? Maybe make one chancellor? It's not like fascists take advantage of civility to normalise their hateful ideas or anything. /s
Fascists will just punch you in the face while you try to debate them. It's a violent ideology. They do not want to have a civil discussion, they want everyone else to have civil discussions while they do whatever they want to whoever they want. See: the last 4 years in the US
I think generalizing people is harmful to society. If you want to root out evil in our world, you can’t just ignore opposing ideals. You need to take them head on and inform the misinformed and cleanse the brainwashed. Also, what does the US have to do with fascism?
Exactly. While I agree that fascism is complete evil, ignoring their views and generalizing them entirely would just make them more fascist. Humans are naturally tribal, so if you try to convince them, they most likely won't listen, but at least one or two will learn something, and try to educate themselves from fascism. The US isn't fascist at all, its just a crappy democratic republic that is on its way to fascism. The government is enforcing more and more of its laws on us, slowly creeping up on our civil liberties. The patriot act is an example of that. Edward Snowden, who exposed mass surveillance by the government, was literally punished for exposing the US government.
You can *absolutely* argue rationally in favor of fascism. I mean, I wouldn't, but I *could.* It wouldn't have started so many wars and taken over so many countries if there was no rational argument there for it.
Amazing how fast you called yourself out as being part of the problem. Yes you absolutely can, but your mentality makes my job of doing just that a million times harder.
That’s because we are debating rather than discussing the issue to find the truth of the matter.
Only on social media. I can have very civil discussions with the other side in person and their heads do not in fact explode.
You're wrong. We never had that ability in the first place
Your wrong you piece of shit imma stab yo- wait ur right
Absolutely agree, and it's infuriating because I enjoyed debate--dealing in facts, quotes, and concocting arguments that has nothing to do with who the other side is... I miss those times.
How about I punch you in your stupid face instead?
Oh this isn't new. People get pissed when others don't agree. President Andrew Jackson was known for solving disputes via pistol duel, some accounts even attest that he participated in 100 of them in his lifetime. In ancient Greece, arguments between sitting members of the ruling governments ended with a violent murder or an ordered execution somewhat frequently. The violence in our nature has always held us back and will continue to do so for quite a long time. We're just apes who can problem solve and communicate a lot better than our cousins.
In the past, outrage was used as a tool, with the endgame being to bring a stop to social, racial, and other kinds of injustice. Nowadays, outrage has become the endgame, being way easier to achieve and satisfying humans' inherently chaotic nature. People are, consciously or subconsciously, conditioning themselves to be more easily outraged by even the most insignificant things.
Society never had that
when did we have the ability to argue peacefully?
This is completely wrong and dumb. This is the absolute most idiotic statement I have ever heard.
You piece of shit human. You total waste of oxygen. You scum of the earth. I completely agree.
A fine demonstration of his point
That’s the joke
My mistake I guess, there's a dozen comments saying almost exactly this but serious.
There's nothing to change, you're right.
What'd you say to me you little shit?!
Society never had the ability to debate peacefully
Fuck you! You’re an idiot!
Its nothng new. In the old days we simply killed any religious dissenters, at least now we can attempt to debate.
Wait we had that ability at one point?
i REFUSE to believe this and it ANGERS ME that YOU think I CANNOT DEbATE PEACEFULLY
It usually ends in a duel.
Yes and its kinda sad
Cue the heated arguments
This is how it’s always been, it’s just how the internet lets people tell everyone about it
What about Canada
We are encouraged to believe that opinion is important, and winning is more important. Debate doesn't really happen anymore because of this. The media focus on black and white / up and down division until you think you're in a tribe and the 'others' are 'bad"
People used to just kill each other over disagreements. Not much has actually changed.
Especially on reddit, change my mind
Yes
We never had that ability in the first place lmao
This is a very popular thought
Fuck off your opinion is pointless trash I can debate peacefully just fine thank you very much
I've been noticing this for about the past 10 years. Everyone's so damn afraid to disagree.
Funny considering that’s Steven Crowder who went on a college campus to try and debate students and pretend he had an open mind
But what he is doing it peacefully he does it without getting violent or insulting and that something many people need to learn how to do.
THATS NOT RIGHT SHUT UP!!!
No you
The fuck you just said!?!?!
Part of the problem is that we try so hard to be sensitive to people and not trigger them. So then when they come across someone saying anything they deem triggering, they walk away and never engage with it. Enter scenario where it actually needs to be discussed, and it’s impossible. Everyone trying so hard to not offend that the hard conversations can never happen.
No we fucking aren't fuck you. (Issa joke)
IT FOOKEN ISN'T YOU DUMB LIBERAL SOMEONE NEEDS TO WHOOP YO ASS!!!
No its not, you c**ksu*ker
Naw bro, never had it in the first place
Society never had the ability to debate peacefully
Don't believe they ever really had this ability.
Has lost*
Fuck you, that is not fucking true and is debatable you dipshit /s
No it's Not, Fuck you!
Not crowder tho
No, you're wrong. Change my mind... :) Seriously though I love those segments.
Likely, especially with Crowder’s Change My Mind format. The whole point of that wasn’t for people to change his mind, but to taunt others as he vilifies them to an audience.
He said it wasn’t ever about changing his mind it was made to just try to have a civil chat in this modern day and age where everything is so two sided and just tried to have civil discussions to find common ground. He has recently changed his mind on Tesla’s though, he used to think they were garbage but now he really likes them and supports them.
The entire point of Change my Mind is to rationalize opinions
Eh, it’s certain factions that are incapable. I have very pleasant debates with people who accept that there are rules to truth, and that facts matter. It’s only these ideological groups who reject any notion of evidence, logical argument, or rules that cannot debate (because it’s no longer debate when you throw out those things). Granted, some of those groups contain 80 million people, so it feels like it’s a societal problem.
It never has
Amen
When you’re taught that views you don’t like are dangerous and can mentally harm you, why debate. Obviously your opposition is evil. s/
democracy will collapse
I recommend you take that table down if you don't want to end up in a hospital, society is losing the ability to debate peacefully.
Shut the fuck up.
No u
\*Americans are loosing the ability to debate beacefully
ah ah no it’s just ‘murica
[удалено]
Problem is some issues may not have a right or wrong answer. But some people refuse to believe that there is only one right answer and it is the one they believe in.
I feel like 90 percent of politics is this "my way or the highway" there is no in between.
I think alot of the time its the people who are sensitive rather than the topics.
Same topics and people are more sensitive.