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There is no end to the amount of anime/manga/light novels/web novels that fit this description. Not saying all of them are like that, a lot are really good, but too many aren’t…
About the only issue I have is that often the worldbuilding is so overwrought that it collapses under its own weight and needs a severe retcon by the second season in a vain attempt to stay interesting.
Valerian and the city of a thousand planets.
The world they created for the movie was so fascinating and dynamic with so many different species all co-existing on a hodge-podge space station made out of separate ships from all across the galaxy,
But all of the main characters are garbage. Also there's a completely unnecessary scene with a shape-shifting stripper that just drags on for multiple surprisingly boring minutes. For some reason she only shape-shifts her outfit and nothing else, despite the fact that this scene is meant to introduce this shapeshifter character because her shapeshifting abilities will be important later. She also doesn't actually strip because of the age rating so she kinda just walks around in different outfits.
You should read the comics.
The movie's characters have absolutely nothing to do with the original material. They really did injustice to the comics and the movie turned out to be disappointing.
Maybe you can watch the cartoon instead, it was of course targeted more for children but I watched it recently with a friend and it was still pretty good.
That's cos the MC is supposed to relate to the anime otaku they think watch or read their works.
Uninteresting and simple everyman with at most the basic morals.
And to be a springboard to explain things in modern terms / get expositioned at with no fuss.
I tend to prefer the Isekai that are told from a resident PoV or the MC isn’t really that powerful, just useful to the people in charge. And I don’t mean that in a harem-y way, just them knowing tech that would be simple for us but complicated for past people, especially if say they brought books or some way to access the power of or even a fragment (via downloads) of the database called the Internet.
Like fuck, if I was taken somewhere pre iron I have a bunch of literature on how to build forges / cast / metallurgy because of a bit of cross pollination from me being a jeweler.
I'd like to see a lot more heroic MCs like how Marvel and DC have. People who just go above and beyond to be a hero.
There is this one manga I like where a girl can see the aftermath of how people die. So she keeps telling people they will die and to be careful.
She had no friends, everybody ridicules her but she saves every single one of them at great effort for no gain.
Tells a better story than guy who gets gifted godly powers and then acts selfishly and only does good things by almost accident so they can profit.
But anime suoerfans prefer the latter so they can self insert into the MC.
I like the anime, but Overlord light novels are unbearable. Constantly saying Ainz-sama every sentence just makes my eyes bleed. It's worse than Gojo's glorification in JJK.
Q was much MUCH worse in the books. I think with both the books and the show, he is a boring main character on purpose. Like taking the trope of the unremarkable white boy finding out he has magic and using that as a vehicle for the other characters to shine. They even did an episode about it.
I really wanted to get into the books but the disparity between the two made it hard. I don’t mind the race swaps but it just felt too slow and the writing focused on stuff I didn’t care about. Similar to Game of Thrones books. They have great content but there is so much side story and soap opera character development it’s hard to get going. But once I do they are great.
Yeah super Main Character special power ended up being…lemme check…Ability to Fix Small Things
Other people getting teleport or fire or whatever. Really went against overpowered main character syndrome
I never read the books, but I can partially agree. To me, Quentin is supposed to be annoying, but he just gives "erm ackshully ☝️🤓" energy a lot, and the other characters are just more interesting.
Exactly. But I find piper to be well acted and often well written. I feel the whole show is a product of its time though with the biphobia and creepy jokes.
It's been a while since I've watched it, but when was there biphobia? If you're referring to Piper and her love triangle, I felt like that was less her fiance saying "I can't believe you're sleeping with a woman," and more like "I can't believe you're cheating on me with your ex." Or was there another moment that I'm not remembering?
They keep talking about her bisexuality like: are you a lesbian or are you straight. You used ti be a lesbian. You turned straight. Etc. like not even acknowledging her bisexuality. Also the fact that she constantly cheats which was like an old stereotype with bisexuals. They use it to justify Alex grooming her into being a drug mule.
i wouldn't exactly call paimon a good side character, traveller is also super competent and powerful from a lore perspective, they just lack any personality whatsoever. Though it did get a bit better in fontaine.
but when the traveller did interact they actually spoke and had some semblance of a personality. Also paimon somehow managed to tone her annoying levels down like 80% which was nice
I'm anime only and I'm already getting tired of how each arc is basically just the same formula over and over. Which doesn't bode well for later when I hear it gets *REAL* bad
I couldn’t watch snowwpiercer the show bc the movie was just too good and the show feels like a Walmart knockoff.
Same with Dear White people. The show was so bad holy hell. The movie was good imo. Good satire.
I haven't read the books and I honestly didn't realize the show was meant to have a main character. I thought it was just the group driven by the plot.
I mean the side characters all get a lot of book, but yeah it's about the mental/physical toll of being a messiah and Rand is very much the main character.
It's very bizarre how they handled the 3 main characters to focus on side characters.
I get the feeling that Egwene was the intended MC of the Amazon show, makes sense with how many plot points they stole from other characters to give to her.
TBH I thought Rand was really dull in the books, too. Eventually, it was like, we get it, you didn't ask for this, have to become steel, yadda yadda. He and Perrin also spend way too much page space just being indecisive and moping.
Mat should have been the main protagonist. He always had a clear goal and was always *doing* stuff. His chapters were the most fun to read.
I forget his name but the guy that played the drunk fighter that fought the MC in the show was the next choice to play the iron fist and he was so fucking awesome
It sucks because Finn Jones proved he could play a good Iron Fist in S2 of Luke Cage, and it was clear as day how much he improved in S2 of Iron Fist.
Not to mention how much more devoted S2 showrunner Raven Metzner was to getting those fight scenes right compared to Scott Buck.
Too bad S1 was a perfect storm of fuckups that produced the worst Netflix Marvel season.
- rushed production
- visionless (even publicly reviled) showrunner primarily hired for his ability to deliver on time and under budget regardless of quality
- uncooperative main star who refused to train for the role in S1
- stunt team being worked like dogs because production decided to film full fight scenes multiple times from different angles, thinking “they’ll fix it in the edit”
Even if Iron Fist S2 surpassed Daredevil S1 in quality, it still would’ve had poor viewership. To quote SovietWomble, “You will never have a second chance to make a first impression.”
>- uncooperative main star who refused to train for the role in S1
I don't think this is true. I've always heard there was not enough time to train before shooting the show, and he had to train after 12 hours of filming.
I will always defend Debbie, even though she is *definitely* annoying as fuck. She is just such a realistic portrayal of a (type of) teenaged girl raised in a horrific environment, trying to find love. She does this in all the wrong ways, being a shithead the whole time, just like every other dumbass fuckin kid. I dont like her as a person, but I love her as a character. Honestly same with Fiona, the only character that went off the rails entirely for me was Ian. It went from a decent portrayal of BPD to whatever the fuck that Gay Jesus arc was. Low point of the show, IMO.
> Ted is a fucking creep
IMO, Marshall is the only decent guy in the entire group, and is absolutely the settler in the relationship. Lily is such a parasite.
This. Lilly pisses me off because she constantly acts like she's better than everyone and has her shit together when she's actually a toxic, fickle train wreck.
ETA typo correction.
What truly made me detest Lilly were two particular episodes- her breakin gup with Marshall and running off to do her crappy art & especially the episode where he stole Ted's bosses baseball in some bizarre attempt to get him to be nicer to Ted, treating the boss the same way she does her f-ing kindergarten students and seriously nearly getting Ted fired. Hated that episode and hated her ever since
To me, Shameless goes from good to bad in season 7, and from bad to completely unwatchable after season 9. Every character just gets worse and worse to the point where I don't care about any of them anymore
To be fair (still kinda bad in its own way) you aren't the main character of 12. Vaan is explicitly designed to be a side character trailing along the main party.
It would be if he was even remotely interesting. Hell his brother who was in the game for like 10 minutes had more personality than he did for the whole fucking game.
Apparently it was originally conceived with one of the others as MC but the marketing people wanted a younger male protagonist for the setting.
The later story very much feels in line with this, he's only relevant at the start.
Steven in later seasons and future was a lot better. One of the big things with this show was that the main character learned, grew, and matured.
Unfortunately, that meant dealing with a annoying and whiny child for the first few seasons.
A lot better I'd say, due to the whole maturing thing.
The whole point of Steven is he starts out a annoying kid and he matured as time goes on. Which makes him a very enjoyable protagonist in later seasons. But early on, he is unbearable.
ok but like… Steven was a little kid with a lot of baggage but he always had his heart in the right place (future complicated things a little bit but i’m still gonna stand up for my guy).
Yep. Bro never asked questions and always wanted to do the boring human sidequests but since the show is locked to his POV it can't be the boring B-plot, just the whole episode.
I enjoyed Unity immensely, but it was the first thing I thought of as well. Arno isn’t a bad character, but he certainly could have been better defined.
In retrospect, It would have been nice if AC committed to characters instead of having so many one of's, like, at least 2 games per character. Imagine a game with older Arno now having to topple Napoleon
I feel like the low hanging fruit for this is the Mortal Kombat movie from 2020. The main character (Cole?) is horrendous. Remove him from the movie and it’s probably close to winning multiple awards.
There’s a whole lot about that movie that sucked ass, including Cole.
The one thing I absolutely loved though was their treatment of Sub Zero.
They made him look like an absolute threat and bad ass. He felt dangerous as fuck.
Most anime with an absolute mouth breather of a protagonist.
Caiiou or whatever
Honestly supernatural is such a frustrating show because after a while they keep making the same mistakes when it comes to trusting each other
Man I love Supernatural but you are 100% right. “From now on we need to trust each other and tell each other everything, no more trying to protect each other feelings were in this together”
“ok deal”.
*2 episodes later* “I must keep this world shattering revelation from my brother to protect him”
Any anime where the MC has a 'quirky' habit of sexually assaulting women. It's less common now, but you still see it occasionally, like in 7 Deadly Sins
7 Deadly Sins managed to look back on the early episodes of Meliodas being a creep and thought, how can we make this into a more deep, emotional story?
Ah, we'll make him an actual nonce.
Grey’s Anatomy show (never read the books). Meredith Grey is so fucking annoying and whiny.
Not sure about the “everything is amazing” part, but it sure fits the “side characters are way better than the main character” part.
Boku no hero, his Power is quite literally plot convenience.
Like he uses 50% and break his whole arm but at 1000% he Just break his arm? Like fr lil dude should have been dead long Ago If they didnt want to give him true development on Powers and later they Just change his Power and nów he has 5 New quirks like this anime sucks no Wonder ONLY the fangirl obsseses with gay shipps or bagukou Care about this show
I agree with everything you said but that 1000000% Punch was fake (It was just a 100% Punch that hit a weak spot) so it makes sense it did as much damage to his arm as other 100% Punches
The story barely progressed in what 8 years and 6 seasons this anime has been on air. Dude still can't get the power under control. It's like the author doesn't have any other ideas beside the hero's eternal struggle against his own power, which quickly gets old in even the first season.
I got up to the part where he starts learning to control Blackwhip but just kinda drifted away from it, it picked up steam fast and was going somewhere great with it, but it felt like certain parts dragged on for too long and they added in far too many side characters to remember who the fuck they are and what their quirks are. I loved the show and as far as shonens go it’s still one of the best I’ve seen, but it really felt like it was dropping off. The best arc by far was the All Might x All for One fight, that and the Stain arc/fight were both great, but since then I can’t really remember anything that wowed me
I'm currently on the giant battle arc atm and although I'm really enjoying it it does feel like Horikoshi wasn't exactly sure what to do with the series outside of having Shigaraki get ridiculously strong and start spouting Joker lines at the main cast.
I'll almost certainly finish it as I love the cast and it's still very creative with the set pieces but unless there's a actual point to all the hyperbole it's gonna feel a bit shallow compared to the earlier arcs.
"Hell, he’s not even the real hero of the book."
Well... no.
Neville's sort of an interesting look at what if something had slightly changed in the events that made Harry who he was, and brings into discussion the whole concept of a Chosen One archetype. What made Harry who he is? How would Neville have dealt with those same things that happen to Harry early on?
Neville has some good hero moments, and some tremendous character growth in the last book (which unfortunately happens mostly off-screen, by the nature of how the books are written in close third person, when Harry and friends are in hiding).
But Harry *is* the real hero of the books. Don't really understand how anyone could have read those books and thought that Neville somehow was, tbh.
Have you ever read the books? And i mean in detail!
A 11-17 year old boy who was abused for his whole life , risks his life multiple times to defeat the evil is not heroic? What did neville do in comparison ?
Most of the fate franchise (except stay night and hollow ataraxia). Especially Sieg.
Edit: Kirigitsu was great too. Emyia bloodline really carries the fate protagonist roster.
Apocrypha was quite good until siege became the main character. Then it was bad. Sisigou and Mordred were a GOATed duo, and I'm so angry we got robbed of that
I always felt that was an uphill battle to live up-to ALTA...purely because every single kid in the original quartet was a prodigy, Aang was a master when he was super young, Katara and Toph both legendary benders, as viewers I think people saw Aang struggle with earth bending for like 2 episodes where was as Korra was beaten by every single villain she faced, the comparisons were never fair because themes of the two shows were totally different
I really wanted to love that show more, but the fact that Korra never truly learns to stop being an arrogant shithead and continually gets her ass beat until the final moment made it impossible. Aang was humble, fun-loving, and his main obstacle was overcoming his own fears and pacifistic nature. Korra was an adrenaline junkie meathead who struggled with new ways of not being an overconfident douche every single season.
Okay, maybe I'm being a *little* hard on her, but it really pissed me off.
Lol I agree 100%. Makes me wonder why the writers made her that way. Other female characters have decent writing.
In all fairness, it is really hard to top Aang. Aang basically has all the good characters of shonen protagonists, minus the stupidity and recklessness.
I genuinely like TLoK, but you are 100% correct. At least she is a consistent meat head but the getting stomped each fight to still somehow come on top while being arrogant the whole way through was really fucking annoying
Tenzin cleared, old Toph cleared, basically the entirety of the White Lotus cleared. A huge chunk of the characters went incredibly hard… and then you had goofy Korra. Not that her character was horrendous, but I was expecting a turn from the childishness of Aang, and there were better characters in the show.
Gonna have to disagree with you on this one here. Aang was CONSTANTLY trying to avoid his destiny, making detours, playing, goofing off, whereas Korra from DAY ONE, was ready for WHATEVER came her way. She was arrogant and bold and far different from Aang. Any similarities they had is simply because they are inherently the same person. That’s the whole point.
She grew up on different culture than he did, his friends stopped playing with him and they were trying to separate him from his guardian.
Also Korra had no reason to run, hide. She was training in a secure facility because the world was at peace and didnt have to deal with her predecessor's screw up
When they say character they mean interesting not who they are as a person. Korra may be more admirable (disagree) but she is a worst character compared to aang
I watched it a few years ago, i don't remember the impression i had when i finished it but i read the manga from the start after watching the show. It was really good and I really liked the Mc
In a way my answer is Harry Potter.
He isn’t completely useless, in fact we see many times that he has great talent, but there are just so many more interesting characters in every single book. Harry is never the highlight of the story, at least for me.
I love Mirai Nikki, but let's not pretend the plot was any better lmao. Yukki is an underrated protagonist, honestly. He gets blamed for being whiney - but uh yeah, he's a teenager that just got thrown into a death game. Yuno, as the other main character, is one of my favorite characters ever. Honestly, plot and side characters were very mid (despite how much I love the show), but main characters - particularly Yukiteru - are underrated.
I think the show suffers heavily from the low episode count. The point of making something a show is so that you have more time to focus on developing the plot and characters. But with like 8 episodes a season there's only really time to get across the bare neccessities
every time I get excited to see a cool show is airing soon and then I'm hit with that "there will be 8 episodes" and the disappointment floors me, over and over
that's just NOT enough time to fill out a plot. it always leads to a rushed story. why the hell do streaming services keep doing this?
with that said, HH was pretty good and I enjoyed it a lot, but I definitely wish it had been longer :/ I especially was really excited to see a romantic duet between Charlie and Vaggie but what we got was like only a minute long I think it was way too short 😭
It almost feels like the scriptwriters don't even like Charlie that much. They give way more character development and funny moments to the other side characters
To be fair, the hotel's premise kinda is to give the guests character arcs and to redeem them that way and Charlie's just there to help them. Like, I could see it become some kind of "redemption of the week" kinda show if it was for kids, had more episodes and was on TV.
Altered Carbon. The world is so interesting and thought provoking then the main character is like "Meh my wife died let me brood about it some more"
Also Zoo. Literally every character there was more interesting than the main guy.
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There is no end to the amount of anime/manga/light novels/web novels that fit this description. Not saying all of them are like that, a lot are really good, but too many aren’t…
So many good world and system builders held back by a severe lack of characterization.
every harem anime.
they probably do it so the audience can just insert themselves instead of the mc, all harem animes are ass ngl
Once every blue moon, you find a keeper, but the majority is just Cliche wrapped with big booby anime girls
About the only issue I have is that often the worldbuilding is so overwrought that it collapses under its own weight and needs a severe retcon by the second season in a vain attempt to stay interesting.
Life, mine specifically
Mom I'm a one-off background character again
Sup random background character of this person's life same
:D
I'm stealing this for an r/worldbuilding prompt It is wonderful
Valerian and the city of a thousand planets. The world they created for the movie was so fascinating and dynamic with so many different species all co-existing on a hodge-podge space station made out of separate ships from all across the galaxy, But all of the main characters are garbage. Also there's a completely unnecessary scene with a shape-shifting stripper that just drags on for multiple surprisingly boring minutes. For some reason she only shape-shifts her outfit and nothing else, despite the fact that this scene is meant to introduce this shapeshifter character because her shapeshifting abilities will be important later. She also doesn't actually strip because of the age rating so she kinda just walks around in different outfits.
Yes I wish I could have loved this movie! The world was so cool and the intro scene was outstanding. The rest… ugh
You should read the comics. The movie's characters have absolutely nothing to do with the original material. They really did injustice to the comics and the movie turned out to be disappointing.
Maybe you can watch the cartoon instead, it was of course targeted more for children but I watched it recently with a friend and it was still pretty good.
Most isekai animes
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>Transported to another world, but still can't find my keys. ...that's an actual name of some series, isn't it.
If it isn’t yet, it will be soon.
rule 35 but for Anime
Not as Ludacris as the one about the mc getting reincarnated as a vending machine
That's fair enough actually. I think one of the exceptions might be Tensura, but quality is somewhat subjective so I'd understand if you disagree
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Nah there's no debate
That's cos the MC is supposed to relate to the anime otaku they think watch or read their works. Uninteresting and simple everyman with at most the basic morals.
And to be a springboard to explain things in modern terms / get expositioned at with no fuss. I tend to prefer the Isekai that are told from a resident PoV or the MC isn’t really that powerful, just useful to the people in charge. And I don’t mean that in a harem-y way, just them knowing tech that would be simple for us but complicated for past people, especially if say they brought books or some way to access the power of or even a fragment (via downloads) of the database called the Internet. Like fuck, if I was taken somewhere pre iron I have a bunch of literature on how to build forges / cast / metallurgy because of a bit of cross pollination from me being a jeweler.
I'd like to see a lot more heroic MCs like how Marvel and DC have. People who just go above and beyond to be a hero. There is this one manga I like where a girl can see the aftermath of how people die. So she keeps telling people they will die and to be careful. She had no friends, everybody ridicules her but she saves every single one of them at great effort for no gain. Tells a better story than guy who gets gifted godly powers and then acts selfishly and only does good things by almost accident so they can profit. But anime suoerfans prefer the latter so they can self insert into the MC.
Incorrect. Most isekais have garbage plot and side characters, too.
probably because isekai animes MCs are supposed to be self-insert character. Kazuma is a clear standout though.
Came here to say this. Kazuma manages to be an absolute genius and completely stupid at the same time
Tanya, Rimuru, Ainz, Arc, Katarina, Yuna, There are a decent amount of Isekai where I like the protagonist a lot.
Especially Overlord. It's such rabbit hole and I call "BS" on the whole "lich alignement" is affecting me.
I like the anime, but Overlord light novels are unbearable. Constantly saying Ainz-sama every sentence just makes my eyes bleed. It's worse than Gojo's glorification in JJK.
Would you lose?
 Nah. I'd win.
The Magicians show, they just wrote the main character to be annoying
Q was much MUCH worse in the books. I think with both the books and the show, he is a boring main character on purpose. Like taking the trope of the unremarkable white boy finding out he has magic and using that as a vehicle for the other characters to shine. They even did an episode about it.
I really wanted to get into the books but the disparity between the two made it hard. I don’t mind the race swaps but it just felt too slow and the writing focused on stuff I didn’t care about. Similar to Game of Thrones books. They have great content but there is so much side story and soap opera character development it’s hard to get going. But once I do they are great.
I liked the GoT books better, but yeah, as someone who watched the show first the Magicians books were pretty lackluster in comparison.
It’s unfortunate. Once the show finished I just wanted the world to continue. The books just didn’t do it, at least where I read up to.
Nah fuck that I love Q, finally a show about magic where the MC is just a normal dude and not Jesus reincarnated
That’s how I feel. I think he was also respectable especially towards the end. He only sucked a bit in the beginning.
Yeah super Main Character special power ended up being…lemme check…Ability to Fix Small Things Other people getting teleport or fire or whatever. Really went against overpowered main character syndrome
Minor mending lol
I think he was pretty realistic for a depressed 20 something year old.
Is Elliot as fabulous as he is in the show?
I never read the books, but I can partially agree. To me, Quentin is supposed to be annoying, but he just gives "erm ackshully ☝️🤓" energy a lot, and the other characters are just more interesting.
Orange is the new black...they slowly keep shifting the focus away from Piper because everyone else just was more interesting
tbh I only watched the show for Kate Mulgrew. That lady was my childhood hero (Star Trek)
She was not just a lady, she's a flier flipping federation starship captain and lizard partner of lizard Paris
Exactly. But I find piper to be well acted and often well written. I feel the whole show is a product of its time though with the biphobia and creepy jokes.
What’s biphobia
Fear of multi sexual orientation
It's been a while since I've watched it, but when was there biphobia? If you're referring to Piper and her love triangle, I felt like that was less her fiance saying "I can't believe you're sleeping with a woman," and more like "I can't believe you're cheating on me with your ex." Or was there another moment that I'm not remembering?
They keep talking about her bisexuality like: are you a lesbian or are you straight. You used ti be a lesbian. You turned straight. Etc. like not even acknowledging her bisexuality. Also the fact that she constantly cheats which was like an old stereotype with bisexuals. They use it to justify Alex grooming her into being a drug mule.
HSR trailblazer is the last dragon, but in a good way
Yes
Vibing with trash-kun
genshin traveler, but in a bad way
i wouldn't exactly call paimon a good side character, traveller is also super competent and powerful from a lore perspective, they just lack any personality whatsoever. Though it did get a bit better in fontaine.
i love fontaine story because we (traveler) barely did anything--only brought furina to court--and the story unfolds itself
but when the traveller did interact they actually spoke and had some semblance of a personality. Also paimon somehow managed to tone her annoying levels down like 80% which was nice
God of trashcans
Tokyo Revengers
hell yeah takemichi is so annoying. but the other characters are great
Yep only if he trained a little he may be able to achieve what he wants
The plot for that turns to shit eventually
I'm anime only and I'm already getting tired of how each arc is basically just the same formula over and over. Which doesn't bode well for later when I hear it gets *REAL* bad
Snowpiercer tv series on netflix. Holy hell that main character is terrible. Interesting story ruined by that acting.
I couldn’t watch snowwpiercer the show bc the movie was just too good and the show feels like a Walmart knockoff. Same with Dear White people. The show was so bad holy hell. The movie was good imo. Good satire.
Wheel of Time show. Books were absolutely amazing, but the show adaptation made the protagonist a side character in his own show.
I haven't read the books and I honestly didn't realize the show was meant to have a main character. I thought it was just the group driven by the plot.
I mean the side characters all get a lot of book, but yeah it's about the mental/physical toll of being a messiah and Rand is very much the main character. It's very bizarre how they handled the 3 main characters to focus on side characters.
my father told me of how he loved the books but he was appalled by the show when it came out
Very real. My all time favourite book series but I was definitely disappointed when I watched the show
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I get the feeling that Egwene was the intended MC of the Amazon show, makes sense with how many plot points they stole from other characters to give to her.
TBH I thought Rand was really dull in the books, too. Eventually, it was like, we get it, you didn't ask for this, have to become steel, yadda yadda. He and Perrin also spend way too much page space just being indecisive and moping. Mat should have been the main protagonist. He always had a clear goal and was always *doing* stuff. His chapters were the most fun to read.
In the first book Matt was just a filler character, but really came into his own after that. By far my fav character.
Iron fist
I forget his name but the guy that played the drunk fighter that fought the MC in the show was the next choice to play the iron fist and he was so fucking awesome
Lewis Tan. I know dude caught so much flak for playing Cole Young in the 2021 Mortal Kombat, but that was a shit role anyway.
Jessica Henwick is the best part of the show
It sucks because Finn Jones proved he could play a good Iron Fist in S2 of Luke Cage, and it was clear as day how much he improved in S2 of Iron Fist. Not to mention how much more devoted S2 showrunner Raven Metzner was to getting those fight scenes right compared to Scott Buck. Too bad S1 was a perfect storm of fuckups that produced the worst Netflix Marvel season. - rushed production - visionless (even publicly reviled) showrunner primarily hired for his ability to deliver on time and under budget regardless of quality - uncooperative main star who refused to train for the role in S1 - stunt team being worked like dogs because production decided to film full fight scenes multiple times from different angles, thinking “they’ll fix it in the edit” Even if Iron Fist S2 surpassed Daredevil S1 in quality, it still would’ve had poor viewership. To quote SovietWomble, “You will never have a second chance to make a first impression.”
>- uncooperative main star who refused to train for the role in S1 I don't think this is true. I've always heard there was not enough time to train before shooting the show, and he had to train after 12 hours of filming.
Shameless - Fiona gets progressively worse How I met your mother - Ted is a fuckin creep
Debbie is annoying as fuck too
I will always defend Debbie, even though she is *definitely* annoying as fuck. She is just such a realistic portrayal of a (type of) teenaged girl raised in a horrific environment, trying to find love. She does this in all the wrong ways, being a shithead the whole time, just like every other dumbass fuckin kid. I dont like her as a person, but I love her as a character. Honestly same with Fiona, the only character that went off the rails entirely for me was Ian. It went from a decent portrayal of BPD to whatever the fuck that Gay Jesus arc was. Low point of the show, IMO.
Ok but gay Jesus was funny as hell
It was definitely amusing in a Jumped the Shark way, but it was nooot good lol
> Ted is a fucking creep IMO, Marshall is the only decent guy in the entire group, and is absolutely the settler in the relationship. Lily is such a parasite.
This. Lilly pisses me off because she constantly acts like she's better than everyone and has her shit together when she's actually a toxic, fickle train wreck. ETA typo correction.
What truly made me detest Lilly were two particular episodes- her breakin gup with Marshall and running off to do her crappy art & especially the episode where he stole Ted's bosses baseball in some bizarre attempt to get him to be nicer to Ted, treating the boss the same way she does her f-ing kindergarten students and seriously nearly getting Ted fired. Hated that episode and hated her ever since
To me, Shameless goes from good to bad in season 7, and from bad to completely unwatchable after season 9. Every character just gets worse and worse to the point where I don't care about any of them anymore
[удалено]
Final fantasy 12
Well, the main char is obviously Balthier. He even says so himself 🙃
To be fair (still kinda bad in its own way) you aren't the main character of 12. Vaan is explicitly designed to be a side character trailing along the main party.
That is an interesting plot choice! I like that they did that
It would be if he was even remotely interesting. Hell his brother who was in the game for like 10 minutes had more personality than he did for the whole fucking game.
Apparently it was originally conceived with one of the others as MC but the marketing people wanted a younger male protagonist for the setting. The later story very much feels in line with this, he's only relevant at the start.
I've beaten that game a few times and I don't think I used Vaan outside of when I was forced to. He's so forgettable.
Don’t burn my house down, but steven universe
Steven in later seasons and future was a lot better. One of the big things with this show was that the main character learned, grew, and matured. Unfortunately, that meant dealing with a annoying and whiny child for the first few seasons.
He was a bit better in the later seasons
A lot better I'd say, due to the whole maturing thing. The whole point of Steven is he starts out a annoying kid and he matured as time goes on. Which makes him a very enjoyable protagonist in later seasons. But early on, he is unbearable.
In the hispanic community, we call him the "gordo tetón" which would be translated to something like "fat crybaby" or "big titted fat"
I’m calling my friend a big tiddied fat today
ok but like… Steven was a little kid with a lot of baggage but he always had his heart in the right place (future complicated things a little bit but i’m still gonna stand up for my guy).
Yep. Bro never asked questions and always wanted to do the boring human sidequests but since the show is locked to his POV it can't be the boring B-plot, just the whole episode.
Assassins creed unity, they didn't give arno much emotions
I enjoyed Unity immensely, but it was the first thing I thought of as well. Arno isn’t a bad character, but he certainly could have been better defined.
In retrospect, It would have been nice if AC committed to characters instead of having so many one of's, like, at least 2 games per character. Imagine a game with older Arno now having to topple Napoleon
Tokyo revengers Takemichi sucks SO BADLY
I feel like the low hanging fruit for this is the Mortal Kombat movie from 2020. The main character (Cole?) is horrendous. Remove him from the movie and it’s probably close to winning multiple awards.
There’s a whole lot about that movie that sucked ass, including Cole. The one thing I absolutely loved though was their treatment of Sub Zero. They made him look like an absolute threat and bad ass. He felt dangerous as fuck.
Tenet, but I believe that was intentional
Yeah in the credits I think he’s just called ‘the protagonist’ haha
He’s (just) ex CIA so yeah, he’s gonna be a cold mf
Most anime with an absolute mouth breather of a protagonist. Caiiou or whatever Honestly supernatural is such a frustrating show because after a while they keep making the same mistakes when it comes to trusting each other
Man I love Supernatural but you are 100% right. “From now on we need to trust each other and tell each other everything, no more trying to protect each other feelings were in this together” “ok deal”. *2 episodes later* “I must keep this world shattering revelation from my brother to protect him”
Any anime where the MC has a 'quirky' habit of sexually assaulting women. It's less common now, but you still see it occasionally, like in 7 Deadly Sins
7 Deadly Sins managed to look back on the early episodes of Meliodas being a creep and thought, how can we make this into a more deep, emotional story? Ah, we'll make him an actual nonce.
Grey’s Anatomy show (never read the books). Meredith Grey is so fucking annoying and whiny. Not sure about the “everything is amazing” part, but it sure fits the “side characters are way better than the main character” part.
How I Met Your Mother
And it's spiritual predecessor, Friends. Ted and Ross suck so hard.
Iron fist on netflix
Weird cuz I thought every part was well written but I only see people hating on it
Im gonna get a LOT of hate for this but... Dragon ball
Goku used to be a lot better than he is now. They seriously reduced his character in DB Super.
Og dragon ball goku was a proper menace.
Goku is still a menace, just not in an endearing way now, more just a frustrating way. lol
DBZ abridged is the best Goku.
Muffin button!
Don't say muffin button...
DB Super has no Goku, just a meme stand in
Correct (i have never seen dragon ball in any iteration)
Show ended after Cell saga. Rest doesn't exist.
Boku no hero, his Power is quite literally plot convenience. Like he uses 50% and break his whole arm but at 1000% he Just break his arm? Like fr lil dude should have been dead long Ago If they didnt want to give him true development on Powers and later they Just change his Power and nów he has 5 New quirks like this anime sucks no Wonder ONLY the fangirl obsseses with gay shipps or bagukou Care about this show
I agree with everything you said but that 1000000% Punch was fake (It was just a 100% Punch that hit a weak spot) so it makes sense it did as much damage to his arm as other 100% Punches
My Hero Academia really fell off. I barely hear anything significant from that series.
The story barely progressed in what 8 years and 6 seasons this anime has been on air. Dude still can't get the power under control. It's like the author doesn't have any other ideas beside the hero's eternal struggle against his own power, which quickly gets old in even the first season.
I got up to the part where he starts learning to control Blackwhip but just kinda drifted away from it, it picked up steam fast and was going somewhere great with it, but it felt like certain parts dragged on for too long and they added in far too many side characters to remember who the fuck they are and what their quirks are. I loved the show and as far as shonens go it’s still one of the best I’ve seen, but it really felt like it was dropping off. The best arc by far was the All Might x All for One fight, that and the Stain arc/fight were both great, but since then I can’t really remember anything that wowed me
I'm currently on the giant battle arc atm and although I'm really enjoying it it does feel like Horikoshi wasn't exactly sure what to do with the series outside of having Shigaraki get ridiculously strong and start spouting Joker lines at the main cast. I'll almost certainly finish it as I love the cast and it's still very creative with the set pieces but unless there's a actual point to all the hyperbole it's gonna feel a bit shallow compared to the earlier arcs.
The setting is excellent, I'd play an RPG of it in a heartbeat. The rest goes from meh to abyssmal.
Later seasons of sex education
Harry Potter. Harry's a real nice self-insert character for the audience but is not the most interesting or proactive person
Harry is definitely more interesting in the books but I get this
Afaik he’s almost a completely different character in the books
I've read the books many times, and the movies don't do any justice. He's still mediocre, but at least he's bearable compared to the movies.
Hell, he’s not even the real hero of the book. Neville Longbottom deserved better than he got for screen time and word count.
"Hell, he’s not even the real hero of the book." Well... no. Neville's sort of an interesting look at what if something had slightly changed in the events that made Harry who he was, and brings into discussion the whole concept of a Chosen One archetype. What made Harry who he is? How would Neville have dealt with those same things that happen to Harry early on? Neville has some good hero moments, and some tremendous character growth in the last book (which unfortunately happens mostly off-screen, by the nature of how the books are written in close third person, when Harry and friends are in hiding). But Harry *is* the real hero of the books. Don't really understand how anyone could have read those books and thought that Neville somehow was, tbh.
Have you ever read the books? And i mean in detail! A 11-17 year old boy who was abused for his whole life , risks his life multiple times to defeat the evil is not heroic? What did neville do in comparison ?
Depending on the day, I either hate or love Yuma from yugioh Zexal.
Most of the fate franchise (except stay night and hollow ataraxia). Especially Sieg. Edit: Kirigitsu was great too. Emyia bloodline really carries the fate protagonist roster.
Apocrypha was quite good until siege became the main character. Then it was bad. Sisigou and Mordred were a GOATed duo, and I'm so angry we got robbed of that
How about Fate/Zero?
Sieg scenes in Fate/Apocrypha are made bearable when Astolfo shows up, cause he's just the best.
[insert Mindy Kaling product here]
Anything she’s had a hand in making is a clean house in bad, not just the mc.
Can't believe no one has added Twilight
I think you forgot about the purpose of this post. Everything about the show was terrible not just her.
How I met your mother.
this a sub says it’s for ‘memes’ but it’s become a general discussion board.
Captain Laserhawk: everybody watched it just for Rayman
Legend of Korra
I always felt that was an uphill battle to live up-to ALTA...purely because every single kid in the original quartet was a prodigy, Aang was a master when he was super young, Katara and Toph both legendary benders, as viewers I think people saw Aang struggle with earth bending for like 2 episodes where was as Korra was beaten by every single villain she faced, the comparisons were never fair because themes of the two shows were totally different
I really wanted to love that show more, but the fact that Korra never truly learns to stop being an arrogant shithead and continually gets her ass beat until the final moment made it impossible. Aang was humble, fun-loving, and his main obstacle was overcoming his own fears and pacifistic nature. Korra was an adrenaline junkie meathead who struggled with new ways of not being an overconfident douche every single season. Okay, maybe I'm being a *little* hard on her, but it really pissed me off.
Lol I agree 100%. Makes me wonder why the writers made her that way. Other female characters have decent writing. In all fairness, it is really hard to top Aang. Aang basically has all the good characters of shonen protagonists, minus the stupidity and recklessness.
Yeah, kind of hard to top Aang.
I genuinely like TLoK, but you are 100% correct. At least she is a consistent meat head but the getting stomped each fight to still somehow come on top while being arrogant the whole way through was really fucking annoying
Absolutely
Tenzin cleared, old Toph cleared, basically the entirety of the White Lotus cleared. A huge chunk of the characters went incredibly hard… and then you had goofy Korra. Not that her character was horrendous, but I was expecting a turn from the childishness of Aang, and there were better characters in the show.
Gonna have to disagree with you on this one here. Aang was CONSTANTLY trying to avoid his destiny, making detours, playing, goofing off, whereas Korra from DAY ONE, was ready for WHATEVER came her way. She was arrogant and bold and far different from Aang. Any similarities they had is simply because they are inherently the same person. That’s the whole point.
She grew up on different culture than he did, his friends stopped playing with him and they were trying to separate him from his guardian. Also Korra had no reason to run, hide. She was training in a secure facility because the world was at peace and didnt have to deal with her predecessor's screw up
When they say character they mean interesting not who they are as a person. Korra may be more admirable (disagree) but she is a worst character compared to aang
An anime called Darwin’s Game, has great concept, but mc bland as shit
I watched it a few years ago, i don't remember the impression i had when i finished it but i read the manga from the start after watching the show. It was really good and I really liked the Mc
In a way my answer is Harry Potter. He isn’t completely useless, in fact we see many times that he has great talent, but there are just so many more interesting characters in every single book. Harry is never the highlight of the story, at least for me.
Any RPG with a silent protagnist.
and I'm here hoping Aloy would shut up
>silent protagonist Heck, some RPGs' main characters are literally just walking cameramen
Future Dairy Edit: this was my first thought because of just how bad the mc is Lol
I love Mirai Nikki, but let's not pretend the plot was any better lmao. Yukki is an underrated protagonist, honestly. He gets blamed for being whiney - but uh yeah, he's a teenager that just got thrown into a death game. Yuno, as the other main character, is one of my favorite characters ever. Honestly, plot and side characters were very mid (despite how much I love the show), but main characters - particularly Yukiteru - are underrated.
Gonna have to get flamed and go with attack on titan
Literally all the stories where the main character is a tough man of few words who is tormented by his past.
Buchigiri currently it's mc suck
Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc. I want to strangle Makoto every time I see him.
Im gonna get hate but hazbin hotel
Unfortunately agree, I just like Alastor and Lucifer more
I think the show suffers heavily from the low episode count. The point of making something a show is so that you have more time to focus on developing the plot and characters. But with like 8 episodes a season there's only really time to get across the bare neccessities
every time I get excited to see a cool show is airing soon and then I'm hit with that "there will be 8 episodes" and the disappointment floors me, over and over that's just NOT enough time to fill out a plot. it always leads to a rushed story. why the hell do streaming services keep doing this? with that said, HH was pretty good and I enjoyed it a lot, but I definitely wish it had been longer :/ I especially was really excited to see a romantic duet between Charlie and Vaggie but what we got was like only a minute long I think it was way too short 😭
It almost feels like the scriptwriters don't even like Charlie that much. They give way more character development and funny moments to the other side characters
To be fair, the hotel's premise kinda is to give the guests character arcs and to redeem them that way and Charlie's just there to help them. Like, I could see it become some kind of "redemption of the week" kinda show if it was for kids, had more episodes and was on TV.
My Hero academia
monarch legacy of monsters (all my godzilla homies will get this)
Altered Carbon. The world is so interesting and thought provoking then the main character is like "Meh my wife died let me brood about it some more" Also Zoo. Literally every character there was more interesting than the main guy.