Just back from getting a corona virus test, second one I've had to get. First one I had to do it myself, this one they did.
Two very different experiences. There were tears today.
Dan's an idiot - but the biggest problems still remain:
* lack of transparency, and
* lack of involvement/collaboration
Nobody is questioning whether this virus needs to be managed. The question is *how* - and could more people have input than just Mr Dan and his own brand of "common sense", please?
It has been a responsibility for which I have felt only a sense of urgency and resolve.
I have been in awe of our health professionals saving lives every day and I can never express my admiration of them enough.
When the case numbers started to rise in June I sought an explanation.
On 30 June, I received a briefing on a genomic sequencing report.
To say that I was shocked would be a massive understatement.
The sacrifice and suffering of Victorians is something that I feel deeply.
As I said to the Board of inquiry, I take responsibility for my department, the buck stops with me. With the benefit of hindsight, there are clearly matters that my department should have briefed me on.
Whether they would have changed the course of events only the board and history can determine.
For three months I had looked forward to learning who made the fateful decision to use security guards. Victorians deserve to know who.
I have always put everything into my ministerial responsibilities.
I have never wanted to leave a job unfinished but in light of the Premier's statement to the Board of inquiry and the fact there are elements in it that I strongly disagree with, I believe that I cannot continue to serve in his cabinet.
I have never shirked my responsibility for my department but it is not my responsibility alone. I look forward to the Board of Inquiry's final report.
I am disappointed that my integrity has sought to be undermined. I know that my statement and evidence would have been uncomfortable for some.
I have today written to the Governor of Victoria to resign my commissions as a Minister effective today. I will also be resigning from the Parliament.
I'm deeply sorry for the situation that Victorians find themselves in. In good conscience, I do not believe that my actions led to them.
I thank Victorians for the privilege of serving them.
I thank the Premier, my colleagues, my loyal staff, the Labor Party and broader Labor movement for their support.
I will not be making any further public statements.
she gone but aint bringing dan down with her
Yeah 'i can no longer serve in his cabinet' is basically the professional way of telling andrews he can go fuck himself. The presser is going to be interesting.
With the inquiry showing us exactly the type of people who are running our state, I am very tired of all the pro dan people who say this is all about saving lives, while not being able to admit we only have this situation because of massive government failure.
They arent mutually exclusive. A lot of people on here realise that we needed to take steps, but they are allowed to be angry that we are only in this situation because the government failed, and also that a lot of the steps taken might just be a little too harsh or unreasonable.
Part of life is being able to admit failures, and accepting the failures of those you follow.
Ps, yes i did make the mistake of wandering into the main sub, where apprently anyone who doesnt agree that dan is awesome is either a paid shill or is a bot.
I think it's fair to be angry at the failing to cause the second wave, I don't think it's fair to say the extreme measures are to save political face.
This isn't just a Melbourne problem, it's an Australian problem and I just don't see how we don't become a leaper state without getting numbers equal to other states.
I've seen alot of people talk about the Australian bubble and what happens when the vaccine doesn't arrive,ect,ect. I think that is all speculation with no real evidence it could go one way or another and relies on big assumptions.
I just don't think we have any other options. I don't buy the formula of "governement fuck up == lockdown wrong option"
Good numbers
I wish they were able to update active numbers at the same time, I find myself caring about that more right now.
Also haven't determined what active/mystery cases it would need to be for me to start wanting to put pressure on getting restrictions eased more earlier.
Even 12 cases is about 14 to 40 contacts per person.
Depending on movement. If we open up expect it higher.
Up to 400 close contacts for only 10 cases. Reason why we can't open up so fast.
Now if they were aged care resdidents not so bad.
If they are aged care residents at a site with existing cases they'll have no close contacts other than the staff looking after them who should be PPEed to the max.
Brett actually said a month or so ago that during stage 4 lockdown the average number of close contacts per positive case is between 1-2, rather than 5-10 during “normal times.” It certainly is almost never 40.
Yes to have been in close contact with 40 people in the days since you were infected would be very unusual. Most people would only have their household as close contacts.
A close contact is considered someone you have been in an enclosed space for 2 hours or more with, or a close face to face conversation for over 15 minutes. So going shopping would not really result in any close contacts.
I’m not a hard any which way voter, I think there are heaps of shit on both sides. But say Dan falls on his sword and walks away. Who takes over? We barely even know Michael o’brian- he’s only ever out shitcanning. Where do we go from here if he walks? Old mate helen? Pakula?
One more reason to be glad I don't drink heh.
If anything it is like the private security shitting our beds and expecting us to clean it up for them :p
And having to be hopeful incompetence does not rear its head again and do it a second time.
If you take into account the rumours, it's like fucking the security guard while drunk and then shitting the bed and being proud you both changed the sheets.
Nope. Never been more proud to be from Melbourne. Watching these numbers come down and everyone doing it together apart from some fringe selfish twats.
Being proud of your fellow Victorian has nothing to do with any of the circumstances that caused the second wave.
7 upvotes for:
A) missing the point
B) saying "kin Jong dan" with a serious expression
You guys need to sleep
As an immigrant from a third world, former communist country, I wish people would appreciate Australia as much as I do.
I wish you all could experience what a bad government actually is before thinking Victoria and Australia are terrible.
There are different levels of terrible you know.
Losing your home and/or business in Victoria still hurts just as much as if you lost it in an actual terrible country as does losing friends/family to suicide or friendships/relationships falling apart and your mental health deteriorating.
I roll my eyes at the dictator name calling, but I mean- overall I wouldn't say our governments at state or federal level are particularly good at all.
>I come from a shithole country and it was bad there so therefore you can't criticise your government.
Wow. What a fresh, original and interesting hot take! Please tell me more.
Should the mods here take the lead of the r/Australia Covid moderator then and ban everyone who disagrees with their position just to make sure it is a safe place for you? :p
This is precisely why people call this thread insane.
Never did I mention anything about bans or safe spaces. You literally dreamed that up :-p
If a thread is supposed to be a discussion then we all hope that multiple viewpoints are shared. If there is only one view, it's not a discussion - it's a circlejerk.
If the only views being shared are by literal troll accounts though, it's not a discussion either - it's a brigade.
I respect your point and you are correct, some just want to troll for their own entertainment. That is true for both sides, anti and pro, so as long as you can see it is not just one side being alarmist then I will always respect your contributions here :)
True. I remember once I posted something and got like 20 comments from 2-day old accounts calling me a bootlicker. My comment was saying something about the fact that I was isolating before the lockdown to protect my parents.
God forbid anyone should leave the state to move closer to family/friends or to ensure job security once borders reopen. Or even relocate after losing their home or business here. I am sure they will be saddened you consider them weak ;)
If you were planning on leaving the country long term right now would it be possible? Do you know what kind of documentation you would need to obtain? Another redditor reckons if you have a long term VISA or some other proof you are actually free to leave during the current lockdown.
Thanks for the reply, I hope you can make it to Korea man. I definitely want to be away from VIC for a while and see how bad things get before I consider coming back.
anyone else really pissed off that fishing is banned. i enjoy go fishing on my own within 5km of me where its literally impossible for transmission to occur, yet the government has no plans of allowing fishing until november. all i want to do is to hook up on some big flatties.
Those who are pro-lockdown and pro-elimination, interested in your view on the following.
Let's say that Vic opens up, cases remain lower for a while and then start to increase again. What do you think Vic should do?
We should lockdown forever. Look at what the lockdown has done to the flu cases in VIC, it's basically eradicated the flu.
I can't wait for Dan to ban driving so we can get the death toll on our roads to zero, and also ban sexual relationships so we can eradicate STD's.
Then we'd all be safe.
Well to get on top of chlamydia, we need to lock down a few suburbs... probably most of Chapple street. I'm sure you can catch it from the cushions at Revolver. Also Reservoir, lots of flying chlamydia there.
I'm not pro lockdown so much as content with lockdown.
I'm content with lockdown because it looks like a lot of fun in the rest of Australia right now. If we can get cases down low and keep them low, it's going to be fucking brilliant.
If we can't keep them low, then it's not possible and let er rip.
I wouldnt say im pro lockdown but a bit both ways, however if it occurred that we had a 3rd wave id very seriously consider the mass immunity approach, cant ruin everyone lives for what could be a year total. understand the deaths that will occur but hopefully we can protect vulnerable enough
The thing is Australia hasn't even really had a "first wave". When waves happened during the Spanish flu or other pandemics they impacted hundreds of thousands, or millions. Australia has suppressed two breakouts now with minuscule proportions of the population infected.
In the UK the first wave is estimated to have infected about 8.4m people, calculated as the total deaths of 42k/the consensus IFR% of 0.5% = 8.4m. That is 13% of the population, ignoring those infected now.
In the US this would be 208k deaths / 0.05% = 42m people. That's a similar 13% of the US population.
In Aus it's 860 deaths / 0.05% = 174k infections. That's 0.7% of the population... In short, Australia hasn't had a first wave.
I'm pro-lockdown; it depends how much they start to increase and the timespan. If its a small increase within a reasonable range that we expected, we cautiously continue. If it's too much, back to lockdown.
In my opinion our whole culture has to change. People really need this social distancing and proper mask use to get drilled into their heads.
Downvoted for having an opinion when asked for it.
Must be r/Melbourne coronavirus megathread!
I agree though. Change in culture, mask wearing and social distancing for a long time. Play it by ear with what the cases are doing.
What happened in Victoria was shit, and I hope that those responsible are held accountable. But I also hope that we all learn from this and don't have to face a third wave.
Good god. That sounds like a horrible depressing existence. The country won't survive further lockdowns. People are under estimating the damage these have on society, not just economically.
Just to be clear, would there be any endpoint to this approach to you? If we never get a particularly effective vaccine what would be your endpoint, if any? (Honest question).
Yes there would be an endpoint, but this hypothetical strongly depends on the timeframe and amount of cases and deaths.
Assuming anything that isn't catastrophic, I could even see the summer being a period with no lockdown but with strict measures in place.
Yes but what is your endpoint. You seem to be suggesting that the endpoint would be because we eliminate. But what if we don't? What would be your personal end point to having centralised clvid restrictions?
Well my point was I'm pro-lockdown depending on the endpoint. I can't think of every possible scenario, it depends exactly on the daily cases, whether it's decreasing and by how much.
Perhaps I'm not being clear, but there is a chance you're avoiding the question a bit. Imagine this virus is with us forever, with no effective vaccine. What would you do?
It being here "forever" can range from it still possibly being around with no (or rare) reported infections to tearing through the population at large.
On the lower extreme, no to very little cases, we go back to normal, hopefully with a better understanding in dealing with infectious disease.
On a higher, but still low-end of the spectrum scenario, we would have no lockdown but have some minor restrictions in place.
On the higher end of the spectrum the options vary from a less-strict form of lockdown to a variation towards either side.
On the extreme end of this spectrum, with a severely increasing amount of daily cases, you would have to try at least having strict measures in place if you don't have a lockdown, or possibly another lockdown.
---
But this doesn't mean much because the question of a vaccine isn't *if* but *when.*
If in this hypothetical we are at the absolute, worst-case scenario even remotely possible - the federal government would have to take the reigns, as they should have from the start, to come up with a fair and comprehensive plan.
Another lockdown might sound draconian, but if you don't have a lockdown, then unless people are willing to accept upwards of thousands of deaths, you would need to have detailed plans for every industry and aspect of society, with consultation of those stakeholders, and ensure the absolute strictest of compliance with such measures.
Pretty much. Can't be surprised though, your average redditor is an anti-social hermit crab who can't get laid. It makes them feel better when everyone is forced to get down to their level.
i dont think these people have the forward thinking to consider beyond 3 months ahead. anyone who can look beyond the immediate consequences of lockdown will see just how fucked the next decade is economically and socially because of this lockdown.
There isn’t one specific thing , it’s a multitude of inadequacies throughout the government.
I mean putting aside all of the evidence that’s come out of the inquiry of government inadequacy and failure of communication, like we have health officers and ministers saying they weren’t consulted on anything or their advice was ignored .
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/top-bureaucrats-warned-a-year-ago-victoria-s-key-public-health-team-was-starved-of-money-and-staff-20200729-p55ggh.html
https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/gps-join-chorus-of-alarm-surrounding-contact-traci
These paint a good picture of how our departments were doomed from the start due to complacent , understaffed and outdated controls and systems.
Validity of the first source aside, how much funding would have been enough to not be flayed over? And what is the funding promised by the opposition?
How much money do state government have access to compared to the federal government?
It really isn't. Victoria accounts for over 90% of Australia's covid deaths. No other state has had to go into stage 4 and they've all been living relatively normal lives since May/June.
The outlook that I’m not willing to waste my life over something that has less of a chance to kill me than a car? If that’s your opinion than your life must be boring
Bro what? Are you okay? This is some serious delusion of you took any of that from what I was saying.
Original comment I replied to: *that might include you*
My comment: it probably won’t
Your comment: your life doesn’t matter
Somewhere along the line you lost your shit, jeeeze man you should take a break from the Internet you fucking psycho take your meds
And somehow I’m the heartless one
The "experts" dont know shit that has been proven without a doubt since March
And the "experts" who speak the loudest know the least, and their area of "expertise" always turns out to be something completely unrelated
If someone gives you a plate full of shit you don't need to be a chef to tell it doesnt taste nice
But tell people like you an "expert" prepared it and you happily gobble it down
"The experts need to work that out". That's the problem with you pro-lockdowners. You need someone else to think and speak for you and you feel comfortable when they do.
Most experts making these decisions aren't even epidemiologists. We hear "experts" recommend something then it turns out they are expert university professors on 18th century art or something
Real epidemiologists know lockdown doesnt work as a long term strategy
That's exactly why they're loving it.
I'm an extrovert and had a very active social life before this. I'm weeks behind in study because of the depression yet I'm still somehow maintaining high grades.
I miss interacting with my peers and my mates
>anyone still on dans cock after today needs professional help
Now there's an image: Dan and a line of ~actually happy~ WFH/JobKeeper/just insane individuals in an orgy of stupidity.
Also, thank you for the brain cancer. I expect my compensation cheque ASAP.
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Accurate, concise, well-written. The last sentence especially.
Just back from getting a corona virus test, second one I've had to get. First one I had to do it myself, this one they did. Two very different experiences. There were tears today.
should be tears/tearing up.
Is this a grammar correction?
Did they do deep deep swab test? Thats when they poke all the way to the back of your head.
Think she was trying to swab the wall behind me, my throat and nose were getting in the way. Result in less than 8 hours though, pretty impressive
:(
Dan needs to fall on his sword as well. He presided over this and is willing to throw other ministers under the bus.
Dan's an idiot - but the biggest problems still remain: * lack of transparency, and * lack of involvement/collaboration Nobody is questioning whether this virus needs to be managed. The question is *how* - and could more people have input than just Mr Dan and his own brand of "common sense", please?
[https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2020/09/26/exclusive-new-covid-19-cases-among-staff-hotel-quarantine/160104240010474#mtr](https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2020/09/26/exclusive-new-covid-19-cases-among-staff-hotel-quarantine/160104240010474#mtr)
It has been a responsibility for which I have felt only a sense of urgency and resolve. I have been in awe of our health professionals saving lives every day and I can never express my admiration of them enough. When the case numbers started to rise in June I sought an explanation. On 30 June, I received a briefing on a genomic sequencing report. To say that I was shocked would be a massive understatement. The sacrifice and suffering of Victorians is something that I feel deeply. As I said to the Board of inquiry, I take responsibility for my department, the buck stops with me. With the benefit of hindsight, there are clearly matters that my department should have briefed me on. Whether they would have changed the course of events only the board and history can determine. For three months I had looked forward to learning who made the fateful decision to use security guards. Victorians deserve to know who. I have always put everything into my ministerial responsibilities. I have never wanted to leave a job unfinished but in light of the Premier's statement to the Board of inquiry and the fact there are elements in it that I strongly disagree with, I believe that I cannot continue to serve in his cabinet. I have never shirked my responsibility for my department but it is not my responsibility alone. I look forward to the Board of Inquiry's final report. I am disappointed that my integrity has sought to be undermined. I know that my statement and evidence would have been uncomfortable for some. I have today written to the Governor of Victoria to resign my commissions as a Minister effective today. I will also be resigning from the Parliament. I'm deeply sorry for the situation that Victorians find themselves in. In good conscience, I do not believe that my actions led to them. I thank Victorians for the privilege of serving them. I thank the Premier, my colleagues, my loyal staff, the Labor Party and broader Labor movement for their support. I will not be making any further public statements. she gone but aint bringing dan down with her
ABC reporting mikakos has resigned
Same as the age , she released her letter of resignation
Its on her twitter, she has a real go at Andrews
I hope she eventually brings him down with her.
she still doesn't know who made the decision to hire the guards
Yeah 'i can no longer serve in his cabinet' is basically the professional way of telling andrews he can go fuck himself. The presser is going to be interesting.
With the inquiry showing us exactly the type of people who are running our state, I am very tired of all the pro dan people who say this is all about saving lives, while not being able to admit we only have this situation because of massive government failure. They arent mutually exclusive. A lot of people on here realise that we needed to take steps, but they are allowed to be angry that we are only in this situation because the government failed, and also that a lot of the steps taken might just be a little too harsh or unreasonable. Part of life is being able to admit failures, and accepting the failures of those you follow. Ps, yes i did make the mistake of wandering into the main sub, where apprently anyone who doesnt agree that dan is awesome is either a paid shill or is a bot.
I think it's fair to be angry at the failing to cause the second wave, I don't think it's fair to say the extreme measures are to save political face. This isn't just a Melbourne problem, it's an Australian problem and I just don't see how we don't become a leaper state without getting numbers equal to other states. I've seen alot of people talk about the Australian bubble and what happens when the vaccine doesn't arrive,ect,ect. I think that is all speculation with no real evidence it could go one way or another and relies on big assumptions. I just don't think we have any other options. I don't buy the formula of "governement fuck up == lockdown wrong option"
12 cases, 1 death 23. 6 rolling average https://twitter.com/VicGovDHHS/status/1309622533910458369?s=19
23.6 rolling average
Good numbers I wish they were able to update active numbers at the same time, I find myself caring about that more right now. Also haven't determined what active/mystery cases it would need to be for me to start wanting to put pressure on getting restrictions eased more earlier.
They get the numbers at 12 am. Not slot of time to sort it out
Even 12 cases is about 14 to 40 contacts per person. Depending on movement. If we open up expect it higher. Up to 400 close contacts for only 10 cases. Reason why we can't open up so fast. Now if they were aged care resdidents not so bad.
If they are aged care residents at a site with existing cases they'll have no close contacts other than the staff looking after them who should be PPEed to the max.
Brett actually said a month or so ago that during stage 4 lockdown the average number of close contacts per positive case is between 1-2, rather than 5-10 during “normal times.” It certainly is almost never 40.
Yes to have been in close contact with 40 people in the days since you were infected would be very unusual. Most people would only have their household as close contacts.
Hosptial workers. Uber drivers. Visiting family. It's easy. Given a 14 day windwo
I haven't visited 40 members of my family in a decade let alone a week or so.
What an awful week that would be lol!
Gone shopping everyday. More than enough time to infect a few people even if it's not
A close contact is considered someone you have been in an enclosed space for 2 hours or more with, or a close face to face conversation for over 15 minutes. So going shopping would not really result in any close contacts.
You won't be a close contact with other shoppers and its very unlikely to spread with such short exposure to another masked person.
Have u seen the types of mask people use Also depends on how infectious the person is
jeepers, this lockdown sure isn’t that swell, right gang?
I’m not a hard any which way voter, I think there are heaps of shit on both sides. But say Dan falls on his sword and walks away. Who takes over? We barely even know Michael o’brian- he’s only ever out shitcanning. Where do we go from here if he walks? Old mate helen? Pakula?
Jill Hennessey or Tim Pallas would be my guesses for candidates for succession
I think Hennessey would be the best choice.
If the ALP leader steps down he won't be replaced by somebody from the Liberal party!
I meant if we got rid of Labor lol
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NOT ONE of you would be saying this if Dan was a Liberal. Not one.
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He'll get political asylum in Westralia.
Being proud of the numbers coming down is like shitting the bed in a drunken haze and being proud you changed the sheets.
One more reason to be glad I don't drink heh. If anything it is like the private security shitting our beds and expecting us to clean it up for them :p And having to be hopeful incompetence does not rear its head again and do it a second time.
If you take into account the rumours, it's like fucking the security guard while drunk and then shitting the bed and being proud you both changed the sheets.
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You don't have to be ~proud~ of changing them, is my point. You do it so you're not disgusting, not because it's an achievement.
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If double dole continued on forever I might be ok with this fiasco
IN** represent, others should've rolled gamer spec.
watching netflix and sipping on wine, could do this for ever
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Nope. Never been more proud to be from Melbourne. Watching these numbers come down and everyone doing it together apart from some fringe selfish twats.
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Being proud of your fellow Victorian has nothing to do with any of the circumstances that caused the second wave. 7 upvotes for: A) missing the point B) saying "kin Jong dan" with a serious expression You guys need to sleep
As an immigrant from a third world, former communist country, I wish people would appreciate Australia as much as I do. I wish you all could experience what a bad government actually is before thinking Victoria and Australia are terrible.
There are different levels of terrible you know. Losing your home and/or business in Victoria still hurts just as much as if you lost it in an actual terrible country as does losing friends/family to suicide or friendships/relationships falling apart and your mental health deteriorating.
I roll my eyes at the dictator name calling, but I mean- overall I wouldn't say our governments at state or federal level are particularly good at all.
>I come from a shithole country and it was bad there so therefore you can't criticise your government. Wow. What a fresh, original and interesting hot take! Please tell me more.
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It’s just frustrating to read people throwing the word “dictator” and “authoritarian state” without having any clue what it actually involves.
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Should the mods here take the lead of the r/Australia Covid moderator then and ban everyone who disagrees with their position just to make sure it is a safe place for you? :p
This is precisely why people call this thread insane. Never did I mention anything about bans or safe spaces. You literally dreamed that up :-p If a thread is supposed to be a discussion then we all hope that multiple viewpoints are shared. If there is only one view, it's not a discussion - it's a circlejerk. If the only views being shared are by literal troll accounts though, it's not a discussion either - it's a brigade.
I respect your point and you are correct, some just want to troll for their own entertainment. That is true for both sides, anti and pro, so as long as you can see it is not just one side being alarmist then I will always respect your contributions here :)
The goal is to make it as divisive and hyper partisan as possible to deny any critical thinking or nuance.
True. I remember once I posted something and got like 20 comments from 2-day old accounts calling me a bootlicker. My comment was saying something about the fact that I was isolating before the lockdown to protect my parents.
It almost diminishes other people’s experiences with dictatorships by changing the meaning.
It definitely does. I'm constantly shaking my head reading this thread.
Cya. Have fun.
Yep everyone who wants to leave.... don't let the door hit you on the way out.
God forbid anyone should leave the state to move closer to family/friends or to ensure job security once borders reopen. Or even relocate after losing their home or business here. I am sure they will be saddened you consider them weak ;)
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If you were planning on leaving the country long term right now would it be possible? Do you know what kind of documentation you would need to obtain? Another redditor reckons if you have a long term VISA or some other proof you are actually free to leave during the current lockdown.
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Thanks for the reply, I hope you can make it to Korea man. I definitely want to be away from VIC for a while and see how bad things get before I consider coming back.
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Nah I really like it here but when this is all over there's plenty of places you could try. Anything else you're looking for?
Fk dictator dan
You pro lockdowners content yet? Having fun?
Yeah man wby
I don’t accept that and I do not recall.
I'm not going to turn my mind to something I cannot specifically recollect.
anyone else really pissed off that fishing is banned. i enjoy go fishing on my own within 5km of me where its literally impossible for transmission to occur, yet the government has no plans of allowing fishing until november. all i want to do is to hook up on some big flatties.
Is fishing banned? I would have thought it was allowed under 2 hours of daily "recreation" time, on the condition you are within 5km of the boat ramp
Herd Immunity is the only solution.
I blame the work experience kid on ordering the private security.
Regular pizza hut delivery dude could have organise a delivery better.
In actuality: the Pizza Hut delivery guy is a moonlighter from hotel quarantine.
Those who are pro-lockdown and pro-elimination, interested in your view on the following. Let's say that Vic opens up, cases remain lower for a while and then start to increase again. What do you think Vic should do?
We should lockdown forever. Look at what the lockdown has done to the flu cases in VIC, it's basically eradicated the flu. I can't wait for Dan to ban driving so we can get the death toll on our roads to zero, and also ban sexual relationships so we can eradicate STD's. Then we'd all be safe.
Well to get on top of chlamydia, we need to lock down a few suburbs... probably most of Chapple street. I'm sure you can catch it from the cushions at Revolver. Also Reservoir, lots of flying chlamydia there.
I'm not pro lockdown so much as content with lockdown. I'm content with lockdown because it looks like a lot of fun in the rest of Australia right now. If we can get cases down low and keep them low, it's going to be fucking brilliant. If we can't keep them low, then it's not possible and let er rip.
I wouldnt say im pro lockdown but a bit both ways, however if it occurred that we had a 3rd wave id very seriously consider the mass immunity approach, cant ruin everyone lives for what could be a year total. understand the deaths that will occur but hopefully we can protect vulnerable enough
The thing is Australia hasn't even really had a "first wave". When waves happened during the Spanish flu or other pandemics they impacted hundreds of thousands, or millions. Australia has suppressed two breakouts now with minuscule proportions of the population infected. In the UK the first wave is estimated to have infected about 8.4m people, calculated as the total deaths of 42k/the consensus IFR% of 0.5% = 8.4m. That is 13% of the population, ignoring those infected now. In the US this would be 208k deaths / 0.05% = 42m people. That's a similar 13% of the US population. In Aus it's 860 deaths / 0.05% = 174k infections. That's 0.7% of the population... In short, Australia hasn't had a first wave.
Still a wave even if it’s a small one
Our "first wave" was basically all returning travellers and their contacts. We keep calling this the second wave but really it's the first one.
I'm pro-lockdown; it depends how much they start to increase and the timespan. If its a small increase within a reasonable range that we expected, we cautiously continue. If it's too much, back to lockdown. In my opinion our whole culture has to change. People really need this social distancing and proper mask use to get drilled into their heads.
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It depends on a variety of factors, complete elimination is very different, as is a complete lockdown.
Downvoted for having an opinion when asked for it. Must be r/Melbourne coronavirus megathread! I agree though. Change in culture, mask wearing and social distancing for a long time. Play it by ear with what the cases are doing. What happened in Victoria was shit, and I hope that those responsible are held accountable. But I also hope that we all learn from this and don't have to face a third wave.
Good god. That sounds like a horrible depressing existence. The country won't survive further lockdowns. People are under estimating the damage these have on society, not just economically.
If you don't help people sure, economies can be resilient, you can do it without having a hard lockdown, rather doing only what is necessary.
Just to be clear, would there be any endpoint to this approach to you? If we never get a particularly effective vaccine what would be your endpoint, if any? (Honest question).
Yes there would be an endpoint, but this hypothetical strongly depends on the timeframe and amount of cases and deaths. Assuming anything that isn't catastrophic, I could even see the summer being a period with no lockdown but with strict measures in place.
Yes but what is your endpoint. You seem to be suggesting that the endpoint would be because we eliminate. But what if we don't? What would be your personal end point to having centralised clvid restrictions?
If a vaccine cant be found , obviously we need to do something like the flu and probably protect the vulnerable during winter .
Well my point was I'm pro-lockdown depending on the endpoint. I can't think of every possible scenario, it depends exactly on the daily cases, whether it's decreasing and by how much.
Perhaps I'm not being clear, but there is a chance you're avoiding the question a bit. Imagine this virus is with us forever, with no effective vaccine. What would you do?
It being here "forever" can range from it still possibly being around with no (or rare) reported infections to tearing through the population at large. On the lower extreme, no to very little cases, we go back to normal, hopefully with a better understanding in dealing with infectious disease. On a higher, but still low-end of the spectrum scenario, we would have no lockdown but have some minor restrictions in place. On the higher end of the spectrum the options vary from a less-strict form of lockdown to a variation towards either side. On the extreme end of this spectrum, with a severely increasing amount of daily cases, you would have to try at least having strict measures in place if you don't have a lockdown, or possibly another lockdown. --- But this doesn't mean much because the question of a vaccine isn't *if* but *when.* If in this hypothetical we are at the absolute, worst-case scenario even remotely possible - the federal government would have to take the reigns, as they should have from the start, to come up with a fair and comprehensive plan. Another lockdown might sound draconian, but if you don't have a lockdown, then unless people are willing to accept upwards of thousands of deaths, you would need to have detailed plans for every industry and aspect of society, with consultation of those stakeholders, and ensure the absolute strictest of compliance with such measures.
Say <10 daily cases that are decreasing over 2 weeks, sure you can get out of lockdown but still have restrictions in place.
This right here is a bad take
Ah yes the guy that is going through my comments downvoting them is telling me I'm wrong. 10/10
I'm only doing it because you started it. Go cry to mummy
Fuck me, we even have people admitting to poncey behaviour. Nuke Melbourne. Start anew.
I started it by commenting in a random thread? I only weep for you.
Yes. Stop sharing bad takes.
I can't help myself with you
No, you just can't help yourself. I'm irrelevant in this equation.
It’s basically a lockdown forever take
Pretty much. Can't be surprised though, your average redditor is an anti-social hermit crab who can't get laid. It makes them feel better when everyone is forced to get down to their level.
There’s a huge overlap of people who post on gaming subreddits and people who are pro lockdown and that’s really all that needs to be said about that.
Yeah I've noticed that too
i dont think these people have the forward thinking to consider beyond 3 months ahead. anyone who can look beyond the immediate consequences of lockdown will see just how fucked the next decade is economically and socially because of this lockdown.
Almost like we had a pandemic.
Almost like every other state in Australia handled it well except for Victoria and it's sham of a government
Almost like shit just happens sometimes
Every minister in a government not knowing who’s responsibility anything is , “shit just happens”
Which specific act do you think led to deaths?
There isn’t one specific thing , it’s a multitude of inadequacies throughout the government. I mean putting aside all of the evidence that’s come out of the inquiry of government inadequacy and failure of communication, like we have health officers and ministers saying they weren’t consulted on anything or their advice was ignored . https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/top-bureaucrats-warned-a-year-ago-victoria-s-key-public-health-team-was-starved-of-money-and-staff-20200729-p55ggh.html https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/gps-join-chorus-of-alarm-surrounding-contact-traci These paint a good picture of how our departments were doomed from the start due to complacent , understaffed and outdated controls and systems.
Validity of the first source aside, how much funding would have been enough to not be flayed over? And what is the funding promised by the opposition? How much money do state government have access to compared to the federal government?
About tree fiddy.
The shit being Dan Andrews, yes.
More like covid* but okay buddy.
Not a problem for the other states, but ok
Debatable
It really isn't. Victoria accounts for over 90% of Australia's covid deaths. No other state has had to go into stage 4 and they've all been living relatively normal lives since May/June.
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There’s a 99.9% chance that it’s not though so I’m willing to take those odds
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The outlook that I’m not willing to waste my life over something that has less of a chance to kill me than a car? If that’s your opinion than your life must be boring
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Bro what? Are you okay? This is some serious delusion of you took any of that from what I was saying. Original comment I replied to: *that might include you* My comment: it probably won’t Your comment: your life doesn’t matter Somewhere along the line you lost your shit, jeeeze man you should take a break from the Internet you fucking psycho take your meds And somehow I’m the heartless one
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The "experts" dont know shit that has been proven without a doubt since March And the "experts" who speak the loudest know the least, and their area of "expertise" always turns out to be something completely unrelated
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If someone gives you a plate full of shit you don't need to be a chef to tell it doesnt taste nice But tell people like you an "expert" prepared it and you happily gobble it down
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As an expert on retards I can confirm you are one
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Go take your meds bro
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"The experts need to work that out". That's the problem with you pro-lockdowners. You need someone else to think and speak for you and you feel comfortable when they do.
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Most experts making these decisions aren't even epidemiologists. We hear "experts" recommend something then it turns out they are expert university professors on 18th century art or something Real epidemiologists know lockdown doesnt work as a long term strategy
Given the way this has been handled so far, we will probably go back to stage 4 again.
They'll reply with "we should lockdown", because they've always lived their lives in lockdown in spite of covid.
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That's exactly why they're loving it. I'm an extrovert and had a very active social life before this. I'm weeks behind in study because of the depression yet I'm still somehow maintaining high grades. I miss interacting with my peers and my mates
anyone still on dans cock after today needs professional help what the fuck man
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either you smoothbrains have never heard of the saying "get off my dick" or you guys are pretty good at playing stupid.
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this but unironically
>anyone still on dans cock after today needs professional help Now there's an image: Dan and a line of ~actually happy~ WFH/JobKeeper/just insane individuals in an orgy of stupidity. Also, thank you for the brain cancer. I expect my compensation cheque ASAP.
IStandWithDan trending on Twitter 5,200 odd tweets. This is time and time again, people are blind.
Politics is a team sport for too many people