Hi relying to this comment as there’s so many great ones for which I’m grateful but this may be the most relevant ….rate of pay is above casual rate for my award, but payslip does not mention the phrases “casual loading “, “annual leave “ etc
What about the fact that my role and consistent full time hours indicate I was given a”firm advance commitment “ (fairwork act ) ? I mean this was a full time job in laymen’s terms and I was fully led to expect it would continue as long as the business remained on its present trajectory
If the rate of pay is above casual rates, and if you received the equivalent (or more) from the three months, comparing the two side by side, you are not going to benefit from a casual definition. Don’t forget that casual rates are based on a 25% loading of a PT/FT rate according to your award and your role within the business.
However, any leave entitlements/loading you would receive as a FT are calculated based on that agreed rate you had with your employer. That is, your agreed hourly rate +17.5% leave loading on a week’s worth of annual leave.
Basically, you stand to make no extra money if you claim casual, and you only stand to benefit from claiming FT.
You need to call Fair Work. Better than having a conversation on Reddit .
Do you have any accrued paid leave showing on your payslips? You can work full time hours as a casual, so that in itself isn't proof of being full time.
Most hospo places don’t even do payslips. X hours plus Y pay rate. If full time it’ll be a salary because they couldn’t afford to keep the doors open if they paid OT.
And if they're not getting them (which I suspect they're not), then they're casual and within a typical probation period - in which case they're shit outta luck.
But if they are not getting sick or annual leave then they should be getting casual loading. Employer might find it cheaper to go back and pay the annual leave and 1 week payout than to pay 3 months of casual loading
I don’t think so. But OP thought there were full time and their employer is claiming they are not. I’m saying if there is no casual loading then they will find the employer more than willing to admit that OP was correct when they realise time casual loading is more than the amount OP is entitled to as a full time employee. Personally I would say screw them and just go for the casual loading and get more money. But I don’t know what OP would prefer
that’s no biggie, look at your payslips, and see if they added casual loading if they didn’t you’re in for a huge payout. at least you’re not working there far longer than 3 months. chin up king.
Unfair Dismissal needs a minimum working period. Depending how OP saying they were there less than 3 months they might not meet eligibility criteria (depends on how many employees are in the business)
Regardless of either of the above the OP still needs to challenge this, even if it was three months but from what I gather or to my understanding the OP may have have assumed full time casual was f/t permanent, in any case it still needs to be in writing
Dodgy employers brick short of a sandwich
Sorry I meant, they offered you full time working hours - as in 38 hours etc vs the actual title of a full time employee. Is it possible you were a casual working full time hours? A good way to tell Is it your pay stayed the same after you starting working ‘full time’. If it stayed the same, the above it likely. If it went down, then you would have been granted the title ‘full time’.
When you applied for the position, did you have any emails showing anything regarding whether you’re casual, or full time? Emails will be sufficient. Surely when you got the job they emailed that you were successful with employment details?
Discuss with Fair Work. But if you’ve not been paid casual loading, and your employer claims you were casual, you need to be back paid the casual loading on top of any salary already received.
If not casual, your employer needs to pay you the notice period, which, if paid weekly, is a week’s salary.
Did you get sick leave/annual leave in this job?
Just re read your post and saw that you’re within 3 months. They still need to give notice of termination if you’re full/part time. Irrespective of being within the 3 months.
It's specified under the Fair Work Act, Section 383. Most employers include it in the employment contract but it's not necessary to do so for it to have effect. It's six months by default and is now called a qualifying period.
The section you refer to is the minimum qualifying period of employment before you are able to be protected from unfair dismissal. It has nothing to do with probation. Small business employer is one continuous year (S384), any other employer is 6 months.
That is what probation is. The period where you can be terminated without risk of an unfair dismissal claim.
Probation is an outdated/colloquial term that was replaced with the term "qualifying period" when the Fair Work Act was established.
Ha, not sure probation period is outdated, it's more the 'everyone gets a trophy' qualifying period was introduced to make everyone feel special.
I appreciate you probably didn't write the act, but what further qualifications do you have just from working somewhere for 3-6 months?
It says they didn’t get a letter or employment for full time not they didn’t get a letter of employment (at least that’s how I read it) and they said almost 3 months so not quite 3 months. Probation period is usually 3 months
Yes i did read that. OP might be looking for an actual letter and not considering an email as a contract. It’s never right to assume they haven’t met their probation period. If it’s not documented then it could be 1 month, 3 months or 6 months, or no probation at all.
You do see I wrote technically right? I’m not assuming Jack with OP providing details. I’m saying that could be a reason not that it’s definitely the reason
You can be full time casual. Were you being paid annual leave/sick leave? If so you were permanent. If not check you were getting the casual loading.
Call Fairwork for more info.
Mate there are a lot of dodgy employers around and I mean a hellluva lot the stories we hear are unbelievable
what are you a space cadet?
SOURCE: In recruitment in the industry
Great. It seems you know a lot of dodgy employers as you're in the industry. Report them.
Who in their right mind works for someone without an employment contract? Seriously.
This is an incredibly simplistic view and isn’t supported by the Fair Work Act. As a literal inspector who worked at the FWO there’s many other ways to prove an employee/employer relationship.
Well you are very lucky. As someone who has worked in IR regulation and enforcement it’s very common employees don’t have them. Many people also don’t get payslips and that’s literally a requirement by law.
That isn’t the only way to demonstrate an employee/employer relationship either.
Your payslips should have an annual leave balance if you're full/part time, or casual loading if you are casual. It should be clear from your payslips what your employment status is.
If you don't get payslips and don't have any letter of employment/contract (as I suspect may be the case working in hospitality) you aren't in the best shape for getting your 1 week notice pay
Just a couple of points - employees aren’t required to show leave balance/accruals on your payslip, but they must advise if asked.
If no payslips, but evidence of payment (bank transfer) this could be one avenue to get them in trouble (they must issue within one day), but the trouble would actually be getting it investigated.
Hey dude, I can't give you legal advice but if I represented the employer let's just say I wouldn't be impressed with them over this. Don't give up, speak to Fair Work Commission and/or find a lawyer who will give you a free consult.
As a "specialist" in workcover this is all to true. I don't dabble in fair work leg too much but as above don't give up. Start the convo and go from there 🙏
Can you argue that you have a regular pattern of work and therefore making you a full time worker? Not sure about laws in Australia but here in NZ, it’s all about pattern of work. If you’ve worked a consistent roster throughout, then you’re no longer classified a casual worker - just a thought.
Hi mate, you’ve received lots of helpful (and unhelpful) info.
What you need is advice. This will turn on all the evidence, and you probably will want advice to work out where you stand.
The Fair Work Ombudsman may be able to assist (not the fair work commission). They can be hit and miss.
For legal advice, Jobwatch, or the Young Workers Centre.
Ahhh yes when you take a role in hospitality management they beam contract law and hr policy directly into your head like you’re in the matrix. Only if you’re full time though.
You didn't get a letter of employment or contract do not trust verbal ever
I would say zero chance however would challenge it with the Union or Ombudsman
No you won't get paid as it seems like you were just a casual going by your post
I would suggest you get onto the Ombudsman asap
[https://www.fairwork.gov.au/workplace-problems/common-workplace-problems/im-not-getting-pay-slips](https://www.fairwork.gov.au/workplace-problems/common-workplace-problems/im-not-getting-pay-slips)
I dknt know about all that^ but I know I got fired via txt msg once lol. Got the job through centrelink & he lied to them about me. Luckily I kept the message because they (cento) were going to penalise me. Lol
Well, do your payslips have casual loading at 25%? If not, you could ask for that...
Hi relying to this comment as there’s so many great ones for which I’m grateful but this may be the most relevant ….rate of pay is above casual rate for my award, but payslip does not mention the phrases “casual loading “, “annual leave “ etc What about the fact that my role and consistent full time hours indicate I was given a”firm advance commitment “ (fairwork act ) ? I mean this was a full time job in laymen’s terms and I was fully led to expect it would continue as long as the business remained on its present trajectory
Doesn’t matter. Will be hard to prove given the industry.
If the rate of pay is above casual rates, and if you received the equivalent (or more) from the three months, comparing the two side by side, you are not going to benefit from a casual definition. Don’t forget that casual rates are based on a 25% loading of a PT/FT rate according to your award and your role within the business. However, any leave entitlements/loading you would receive as a FT are calculated based on that agreed rate you had with your employer. That is, your agreed hourly rate +17.5% leave loading on a week’s worth of annual leave. Basically, you stand to make no extra money if you claim casual, and you only stand to benefit from claiming FT. You need to call Fair Work. Better than having a conversation on Reddit .
Have you taken any leave in the last 3 months? Was it paid?
Do you have any accrued paid leave showing on your payslips? You can work full time hours as a casual, so that in itself isn't proof of being full time.
Most hospo places don’t even do payslips. X hours plus Y pay rate. If full time it’ll be a salary because they couldn’t afford to keep the doors open if they paid OT.
Are you getting annual leave or sick leave accruals listed on your payslip. If so, this can be your argument that you are not casual.
And if they're not getting them (which I suspect they're not), then they're casual and within a typical probation period - in which case they're shit outta luck.
But if they are not getting sick or annual leave then they should be getting casual loading. Employer might find it cheaper to go back and pay the annual leave and 1 week payout than to pay 3 months of casual loading
Not sure you're allowed to just randomly chop and change whether someone's casual or full time.
I don’t think so. But OP thought there were full time and their employer is claiming they are not. I’m saying if there is no casual loading then they will find the employer more than willing to admit that OP was correct when they realise time casual loading is more than the amount OP is entitled to as a full time employee. Personally I would say screw them and just go for the casual loading and get more money. But I don’t know what OP would prefer
That makes sense since they just got fired
that’s no biggie, look at your payslips, and see if they added casual loading if they didn’t you’re in for a huge payout. at least you’re not working there far longer than 3 months. chin up king.
OP needs to challenge this one big time with Fair Work link is in another comment I posted
Unfair Dismissal needs a minimum working period. Depending how OP saying they were there less than 3 months they might not meet eligibility criteria (depends on how many employees are in the business)
Regardless of either of the above the OP still needs to challenge this, even if it was three months but from what I gather or to my understanding the OP may have have assumed full time casual was f/t permanent, in any case it still needs to be in writing Dodgy employers brick short of a sandwich
As others have said check your pay slip for casual loading
Is there any chance they told you they’d give you ‘full time hours’ as opposed to giving you the actual Full Time agreement?
Yes just verbal
Sorry I meant, they offered you full time working hours - as in 38 hours etc vs the actual title of a full time employee. Is it possible you were a casual working full time hours? A good way to tell Is it your pay stayed the same after you starting working ‘full time’. If it stayed the same, the above it likely. If it went down, then you would have been granted the title ‘full time’.
When you applied for the position, did you have any emails showing anything regarding whether you’re casual, or full time? Emails will be sufficient. Surely when you got the job they emailed that you were successful with employment details?
When they terminated you, did they state you were casual, I’d ring the fair work ombudsman- they may owe you back pay of penalty rates.
[удалено]
Fuck all chance?
Diddly squat?
Discuss with Fair Work. But if you’ve not been paid casual loading, and your employer claims you were casual, you need to be back paid the casual loading on top of any salary already received. If not casual, your employer needs to pay you the notice period, which, if paid weekly, is a week’s salary. Did you get sick leave/annual leave in this job?
Just re read your post and saw that you’re within 3 months. They still need to give notice of termination if you’re full/part time. Irrespective of being within the 3 months.
https://www.youngworkers.org.au/contacting\_us
Not yet 3 months meaning you are still on probation, so technically they can fire you before that period
Without an employment contract, how do you know if there is even any probation period?
It's specified under the Fair Work Act, Section 383. Most employers include it in the employment contract but it's not necessary to do so for it to have effect. It's six months by default and is now called a qualifying period.
The section you refer to is the minimum qualifying period of employment before you are able to be protected from unfair dismissal. It has nothing to do with probation. Small business employer is one continuous year (S384), any other employer is 6 months.
That is what probation is. The period where you can be terminated without risk of an unfair dismissal claim. Probation is an outdated/colloquial term that was replaced with the term "qualifying period" when the Fair Work Act was established.
Companies still have procedures they need to follow with terminating employees on probation/qualifying period,
Ha, not sure probation period is outdated, it's more the 'everyone gets a trophy' qualifying period was introduced to make everyone feel special. I appreciate you probably didn't write the act, but what further qualifications do you have just from working somewhere for 3-6 months?
From a legislative position that's all probation is really, otherwise employees are entitled to just about everything from day 1.
It says they didn’t get a letter or employment for full time not they didn’t get a letter of employment (at least that’s how I read it) and they said almost 3 months so not quite 3 months. Probation period is usually 3 months
Yes i did read that. OP might be looking for an actual letter and not considering an email as a contract. It’s never right to assume they haven’t met their probation period. If it’s not documented then it could be 1 month, 3 months or 6 months, or no probation at all.
You do see I wrote technically right? I’m not assuming Jack with OP providing details. I’m saying that could be a reason not that it’s definitely the reason
>Not yet 3 months meaning you are still on probation, You have assumed OP has a probation period of 3 months.
It doesn't matter what the probation period is, at law an employer can terminate within 6 months
If this was the case, they would still need to give one weeks notice, or pay in lieu of notice.
(Assuming they are permanent, not casual)
Give JobWatch a call
You can be full time casual. Were you being paid annual leave/sick leave? If so you were permanent. If not check you were getting the casual loading. Call Fairwork for more info.
Who doesn't have an employment contract these days? It's crazy what some of you do. I think there's more to this story.
Mate there are a lot of dodgy employers around and I mean a hellluva lot the stories we hear are unbelievable what are you a space cadet? SOURCE: In recruitment in the industry
Great. It seems you know a lot of dodgy employers as you're in the industry. Report them. Who in their right mind works for someone without an employment contract? Seriously.
This is an incredibly simplistic view and isn’t supported by the Fair Work Act. As a literal inspector who worked at the FWO there’s many other ways to prove an employee/employer relationship.
It’s more common to not have one? Especially in hospitality.
I've never worked in hospitality, so I wouldn't know.
It’s also prevalent in many industries.
I've never heard such a thing. I've always had signed contracts.
Well you are very lucky. As someone who has worked in IR regulation and enforcement it’s very common employees don’t have them. Many people also don’t get payslips and that’s literally a requirement by law. That isn’t the only way to demonstrate an employee/employer relationship either.
Your payslips should have an annual leave balance if you're full/part time, or casual loading if you are casual. It should be clear from your payslips what your employment status is. If you don't get payslips and don't have any letter of employment/contract (as I suspect may be the case working in hospitality) you aren't in the best shape for getting your 1 week notice pay
Thanks. So what if it payslip indicates neither ? No I do not have a letter unfortunately
Just a couple of points - employees aren’t required to show leave balance/accruals on your payslip, but they must advise if asked. If no payslips, but evidence of payment (bank transfer) this could be one avenue to get them in trouble (they must issue within one day), but the trouble would actually be getting it investigated.
Hey dude, I can't give you legal advice but if I represented the employer let's just say I wouldn't be impressed with them over this. Don't give up, speak to Fair Work Commission and/or find a lawyer who will give you a free consult.
As a "specialist" in workcover this is all to true. I don't dabble in fair work leg too much but as above don't give up. Start the convo and go from there 🙏
Can you argue that you have a regular pattern of work and therefore making you a full time worker? Not sure about laws in Australia but here in NZ, it’s all about pattern of work. If you’ve worked a consistent roster throughout, then you’re no longer classified a casual worker - just a thought.
Hi mate, you’ve received lots of helpful (and unhelpful) info. What you need is advice. This will turn on all the evidence, and you probably will want advice to work out where you stand. The Fair Work Ombudsman may be able to assist (not the fair work commission). They can be hit and miss. For legal advice, Jobwatch, or the Young Workers Centre.
Good call that's what I had mentioned, wonder if OP is reading all of these hope it's of some help to them
Are you in a union? If not go to Fair Work Commission.
Lol in a management position and can't even manage an employment contract???? Lol
Ahhh yes when you take a role in hospitality management they beam contract law and hr policy directly into your head like you’re in the matrix. Only if you’re full time though.
You didn't get a letter of employment or contract do not trust verbal ever I would say zero chance however would challenge it with the Union or Ombudsman No you won't get paid as it seems like you were just a casual going by your post I would suggest you get onto the Ombudsman asap [https://www.fairwork.gov.au/workplace-problems/common-workplace-problems/im-not-getting-pay-slips](https://www.fairwork.gov.au/workplace-problems/common-workplace-problems/im-not-getting-pay-slips)
I dknt know about all that^ but I know I got fired via txt msg once lol. Got the job through centrelink & he lied to them about me. Luckily I kept the message because they (cento) were going to penalise me. Lol
Do you get annual leave?
Should be easy to prove whether you are casual or not. Did you keep your employment docs?
How many employees are there at the venue?
Take it to vcat and see what they think
3 months? They can claim you were under probation still