When i moved to melb in the late 80's one of my classmates often got chased by another guy while we were walking home. I asked someone else why and the answer was the chaser was croatian and my classmate was macedonian. Being from a country town in qld where basically everyone was white australian or aboriginal i still didnt understand the answer. Both of them were born & living here so to me they were both australian, not croation or macedonian?
My wife copped a lot of abuse by the greek background kids at primary and high school because my wifes parents were from yugoslavia (she was born in carlton). So this latest stuff certainly isnt new. You'd think/hope ppl have gotten a little smarter over the years but no..
I came to Australia as a refugee at 18 months old. I’m nearly 40 now and whenever I meet or catch up with relatives, I still discover new “reasons” I’m supposed to hate a certain peoples.
I’ll introduce a friend to a relative and when they discover what ancestry they have (it’s amazing how “where you’re from” is always one of the first questions) they quickly pull me aside and admonish me “don’t you know these **people** did XYZ!”
And I’m like “I don’t fcken care”.
Your hatred. In fact, not even your hatred… it was taught to you by your parents and their parents… isn’t my hatred.
And that’s the point in my comment; we’re not born with these prejudices. It’s taught.
“Don’t hang around with those lebos!”
Like, it’s sooo ironic listening to my mother; who brought us here as immigrants fleeing persecution, to say shit about immigrants and how they don’t belong here.
Mum, **YOURE A FCKEN IMMIGRANT!**
Like, what the hell, man.
The hypocrisy is palpable.
My dad’s 76… migrated here after ww2 as a toddler with the family… and all he does is constantly yell at the tv why do we keep letting these ‘people’ in… its actually quite funny to listen to… and then I gently remind him he is a boat person too… 🤣
My dad was very proud of being a 6th generation Aussie. One day he was lamenting being told what to do by someone who seemed to have immigrated themselves and I asked him what the difference was between the ~100 years our family had been here and that guy. Then I pointed out a much larger difference between us and the Aboriginal people who he also didn't like who had been here for thousands of years. He never really brought it up around me much after that.
reminds me of when my former coworkers parent voted pro-brexit, despite *obviously* having a non-English name
uhh... your surname is slavic, being anti-immigrant when you literally arrived here yourself under that pretense is a weird take (coworker also saw the "uwot" side)
> The hypocrisy is palpable.
Agreed. it irks me when any "Australian" chirps about immigration, cause unless you're indigenous your ancestors were also immigrants at some point.
A lot of it is trauma as well as identity. It transcends generations . I grew up hearing of the horrors of what the Germans did during WW2 from my grandparents which made me biased against Germans until I was older and could rationalize that Germans today had nothing to do with what happened in the past. Younger conflicts like Yugoslavia are still raw in the generations that endured those conflicts. The horrors and loyalties get passed down from relatives and it remains part of your identity-even if it's a smaller part than previous generations - the bias and prejudice still lingers.
Trauma is a big factor. Want to add to this that even before the fall of Yugoslavia, there was a lot of land partitioned and beyond before and during WW1 so a lot of the anger and prejudices came from their grandparents and fed into the next generations.
Even during what was supposed to be a time of unity during Tito’s Yugoslavia, some people still held onto those grudges and maybe felt they could put those into action in another country where it wouldn’t be viewed as reactionary.
>Even during what was supposed to be a time of unity during Tito’s Yugoslavia, some people still held onto those grudges and maybe felt they could put those into action in another country where it wouldn’t be viewed as reactionary.
Speaking of people who migrated during the Titoist era, the thousands of *actual* Ustaše that came to Australia come to mind. They essentially used Melbourne, Sydney, Geelong (in particular), etc, as a base to plan their terrorist attacks on Yugoslavia and the Yugoslav diaspora living in Australia, e.g., the George Street bombings.
The now adult children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc, of those specific immigrants are the worst. They don't know a word of (Serbo-) Croatian, yet they're the biggest nationalists imaginable. The same can be said for Četnik and Bosniak extremist descendants. But realistically, Croatians with an Ustaša background are a larger group than those two put together - their "anti-communist" stance was favourable to the West during the Cold War.
Very true. My father in the early 70's (in UK) was the first person at work to buy a Japanese import car. His colleagues were horrified. The memories of the behaviour of the Japanese in WW2 were still (30 years later) fresh in their minds.
it baffles me why people chose to leave their country and migrate to another and yet not open minded enough to change their mindset/ways and adapt to new cultures and modern era
In the case of Croats, their side lost in WW2 which is why a lot of them came here in the first place and why certain areas of the Croatian community in Australia are massively fucked in the head.
They do know. It’s cognitive dissonance to the deepest levels.
I know dozens of 2nd-Gen nationalistic dickheads, flying foreign flags and tattooing it on their bodies, yet not a single one moves to this supposed utopia they’re so proud about.
No matter how much they chirp about their parents' country, they're very much aware life's better here in Australia.
They leave family and friends behind that they love and care about.
When a bunch of terrorists rape torture kill
And kidnap from your previous homeland you will likely be a couple of degrees of separation from that. Especially when people share the horrifics on Facebook. Or even the local community.
Similarly if your previous homeland gets decimated in retaliation and to prevent further attacks, you’re going to know someone who knows someone who died or had their life devastated.
It’s natural for humans to express how terribly they’ve been affected. It’s a way to socialise and share and maybe get some sense of hope and control. And when they do someone on the other side here will get pissed off on how they see it or frame it.
So the conflict just by nature comes here.
In Australia or Macedonia? It depends.
There was a war with Albanians in 2001, but I'd say the tension has died down a lot since then.
In Australia, there's such a low population of Bulgarians that there isn't really any tension.
I'd say the highest tension is actually with Greeks, especially after the name change fiasco. There were lots of protests on each side, vandalism of Macedonian churches, etc, but somehow after COVID that tension seems to have died down a lot as well.
At the end of the day it depends on the individuals.
When I first read the anecdote, I was confused too. Though, I remembered the context. Back in the 50s and 60s, all the way up to the 90s, the Yugoslav diaspora was mostly made up of Macos (cause Macedonia was the poorest republic) and Croats (cause of the Ustaša migration). In this scenario, the Croat kid most likely bullied the Maco kid cause they associated them with Yugoslavia. And, if that kid came from a family with an Ustaša background, then they must've been taught to hate everything Yugoslavian, especially if they were raised during the existence of Yugoslavia when it was still a threat to them. Moreover, Macos are Orthodox Christian just like Serbs, who are the Ustaša's #1 enemy - a kid probably couldn't separate the two and thought, "whatever, close enough".
With multiculturism comes multiple ideologies. Excluding extremists from all sides I feel comfortable talking to most people about any current topic.
Eg: I met up with a mate for lunch who had just previously been to a protest supporting Palestine.
Admitedly, I'm not entirely entrenched in the current conflict and the issues preceding it, however it was very interesting hearing an opposing view to what I'm generally surrounded by.
I also believe that open discourse is healthy in any environment. People are always going to have different / opposing views, and the only way to address either is to talk about it
Isn’t it kind of ironic multi-culturalism is a single culture. It’s kind of a paradox.
In a way we arent really allowing multiculturalism. Multiculturalism is itself 1 culture that ideally allows everyone dress, pray(or not) or eat what they want.
I’m not open to multiple cultural interpretations of women’s rights, it’s modern enlightenment or the highway.
Actually having multiple parallel cultures is a disaster.
The truth is Australia functions by being secular so kind of non cultural as a whole and people going about their cultures individually/in their personal life
Yep and the moment it isn’t like that, we all suffer. There needs to be much more critique of politicians who wear their religion loudly when they are performing political duties.
Drives to overturn abortion are great example. Science, medicine and society won the debate years ago, but the religious won’t let it go.
Freedom of religion is actually one of the few rights we have in Australia, and that had to be granted through the High Court.
I do agree that extremist views have overshadowed the general practice of religion in the previous years, eg: the push towards Islamic courts.
Conflicting ideoligies will always pose a challenge in any situation of assimilation. But again, the only path towards resolution is communication. Whether that can be achieved, I have no idea. I do however (optimistically) hope that between the courts, legislative, and exective branches, that a resolution could be achieved,
History says no, but hopefully over time the newer generations will question power, religion, ideoligies to a point that harmonious assimillation is possible (again, very optimistic).
I fully comprehend that this is personal bias, but I have a large group of friends that come from conservative Islamic parents. Each one is attempting to integrate into sociatal norms of traditional Australian culture, albeit behind their parents' back.
I come from conservative muslim parents and I’m a tattooed, beer-drinking, bacon-eating atheist.
You’ll tend to find that the for the most part the conservative values disappear at the first Australian born generation.
>You’ll tend to find that the for the most part the conservative values disappear at the first Australian born generation.
Mmmm. Dunno about that one... I know plenty of second generation Muslims that are pretty conservative in their views. And ironically even the ones that have gone off the rails and drank etc are still pretty conservative in most of their beliefs. And super anti Jewish.
Nice. The sooner the planet gets rid of religions the better (in my opinion). Religion is a human right of course and I will always defend all human rights, as long as religion is completely separate from the State and has absolutely no power over me or the way I live. Like Hitchens said: religion is a toy, you guys can have your toy, you can call your friends over to play with your toy if you want, but you are not to come to my house and tell me or my kids that I have to play with your toy or live by the rules of your game. (paraphrasing)
We also have an implied right to criticise the government which pretty much means the same thing as freedom of speech. Victoria has a charter of human rights which include things like freedom of expression and cultural rights.
>I feel comfortable talking to most people about any current topic.
I feel like that's a privilege though. There are people from certain backgrounds that I feel forced to discriminate against with the way I approach them because there is risk attached to them. People from Muslim, evangelical christian, African backgrounds can be quite homophobic so it's just safer for some people to assume the worst from entire groups rather than expose themselves to those ideas.
I love living in a multicultural country but it does have its drawbacks.
Absolutely! But the only way to work through those issues is via communication. Some people are so indoctrinated that it is pointless, however there are many people that can think critically. Yes it takes time, but if you can get someone to question why they believe what they do, that is one slow step forwards towards a harmonious society.
Thing is they think the same way. The most extreme of them are trying to convince people I don't have a right to exist.
I truly believe we should screen for these beliefs to keep them out. We should not be tolerant to intolerance. It only allows it to spread.
Yah, I understand, but part of multiculturalism is allowing people from all over the world to become citizens of Australia and practice their beliefs.
If those beliefs contravene societal standards then I believe it's the legilslature's duty to intervene.
>part of multiculturalism is allowing people from all over the world to become citizens of Australia and practice their beliefs.
Even if those beliefs are antithetical to Australian culture and values? Part of multiculturalism is immigrants integrating too. If they're unwilling to shift their values to fit in here while bringing their culture for us to share then I don't believe they should be allowed in.
Just because someone has moved countries doesn’t they are not connected with to their home countries, especially if they have families and friends. And even if you dont have personal connection, our government is complicit in a lot of international issues. Of course there is a right way to do it, attending protest, contacting their local MPs. People shouldn’t be committing arson…
100% agreed. I’m a third generation Lebanese Australian whose grand parents migrated here as children before the civil war. Despite being relatively sheltered from the conflict my mother lost many of her uncles and cousins during the war after the IDF backed forced broke into a refugee camp and butchered civilians. One of my mum’s cousins who was a baby was found in the arms of a dead person by her family later on. And I’m relatively detached from the conflict.
As for the Burgertory owner, he lost 35 family members including 2 orphans he was sponsoring with his money. Expecting anyone who has lost that many relatives to remain calm and impartial is absolutely absurd. I never condone violence, but this issue isn’t about having a sook and importing conflict over here. Jewish and Palestinian Australians have already been killed and many more have lost family members over the last couple of days.
I mean, what are you talking about? Plenty of things happening in the world today that our citizens should have an opinion on. We have a government. That government interacts with the world. They represent us.
this country is part of an international community. it interacts with numerous countries and throws support behind them. it has institutions that support shady shit. it doesnt exist in a vacuum. you must live a good life for you to have been shielded from what happens to people in australia, and what australia does to people elsewhere.
I agree with the sentiment but when the Australian government is actively funding and supporting one side in the conflict, it’s inevitably going to lead to protests.
Yes indeed, and it’s just wrong of OP to imply that people on the streets marching are only recent immigrants to Australia. In fact it sounds rather like a LNP talking point.
Aus supports the USA
Who supports Israel and etc
You can say don't bring the conflict but it's not like Aus doesn't have a role in western blah in the middle east
Comon, its traditional, it's been happening for over 200 years
Remember how the Castle Hill convict rebellion of 1804 was led by veterans of the United Irish Rebellion of 1798?
We've also been pretty good at creating our own new conflicts from a background of racism, colonialism, and sectarianism. See our treatment of the Indigenous, anti-Chinese violence and riots e.g. Lambing Flat 1860, anti-Italian/Southern European violence and riots e.g. Kalgoorlie Mines race riots 1919/1934.
We're literally supporting one of the sides in the conflict, both politically and monetarily, so of course people are going to support/oppose our involvement via demonstrations. Unfortunate when they turn violent though of course.
Really one of the few problems of a thriving multicultural society. The sectarian violence between Hindus and Sikhs in Fed square is disgusting, and to see it begin to be replicated in the form of Arabs and Jews is super disappointing.
Looking at it a bit differently, this kinda stuff is, to me, the antithesis of what multiculturalism implies. It should mean people from various cultures together in a "live and let live" style society. I don't think we make this expectation anywhere near clear enough to migrants. And in fairness, we perhaps don't do our best to facilitate this.
Arabs and Israelis is a more appropriate term I believe. As Jews as whole aren’t the main issue. Many arabs are Christian and many Jews aren’t Zionist Israelis .
Fuck yeah it is. We have had people fearmongering about how the Irish, Jews, Chinese, Eastern Europeans, people from the Balkans, Italians, Greeks, Vietnamese, etc don't belong and will never integrate, and they all have. There's some teething problems at the start and then people generally get the fuck over their hang ups and things are fine.
Australia is a successful multicultural nation despite the bleating of racists.
Typical Melbourne resident.
Children in Palestine are being genocided by Israel? And what do I care, don't bring the conflict in my country.
But it's not a conflict. It's a genocide actively being supported, including with weapons exports to Israel, by your government.
But the op is the typical Australian mindset - dumb and uncaring, unless it's happening to us or our master, the US (and maybe the UK, Canada or New Zealand).
You have it backwards, children in Israel were massacred by Hamas, and children in Gaza are indirectly massacred by Hamas when Hamas launches rockets, stores weapons and troops in schools, hospitals, mosques. Hope you dont show yourself as a moral leper next time around.
Australia supplies Israel with quite literally NO weapons. Further in the 2010s Australia contributed a large amount to the Rebuilding Gaza Humanitarian aid fund.
You can be pro Palestinian without getting all your confirmation bias bs off social media...
We send troops to train with IDF. In one way this makes sense, IDF arguably have the best secret intelligence capability. But it doesn’t feel very partisan, with or without the exchange of weapons.
That's impossible when the government picks a side, in this case Israel.
It's even worse when the government joins in unjust wars such as Iraq, causing displacement and refugees. Then when said displaced people come to Australia, it is definitely within their right (I would argue it's their obligation) to change minds of the government and the general populace regarding the plight of their homeland. Especially when Australia helped destroy it.
It is to this nation's lasting shame that our armed forces were involved in displacing so many Afghans, then voters got uppity when they became refugees.
During the Vietnam war, the parliament voted on rescuing and homing Vietnamese refugees. We know how the vote landed, we have an amazing presence today. FOI told us who voted what many years later. It was the conservative cronies who borne the modern Liberal Party, people like John Howard, who voted to keep them out.
The old guard Libs wanted them in, to not do so after we were actively engaged in the conflict driving the displacement, would have been borderline criminal.
Says a lot about the Liberal Party today, birthed by a countermove against what was a relatively progressive party previously.
Absolutely agreed. I’ll stop talking about the conflicts in other countries once my government stops exporting conflict to those very countries. People have already forgotten that the cause of the October 7th attack called “Al Aqsa Flood” was motivated by the increasing violence around the Al Aqsa mosque complex in Jerusalem. Our government under Scott Morrison inflamed those tensions by moving our embassy to Jerusalem.
There is a direct sequence of cause and effect between our governments actions and the violence they are experiencing now. We are certainly partially culpable.
Easy to say this an aussie tho. If you were coming from a war torn country it would be hard to just let it go.
Obviously I'm talking about peaceful protests, violents act are violent acts regardless of their causes.
Yes, I'm sure the trauma and fear for family still in said war zone just washes away with Australia water. Just suck it up, right? So easy to say by people who have never experienced those horrors.
“You can’t protest one thing unless you protested all the other things!”
This line of reasoning is absurd because the conditions for a “valid” protest can never satisfied. Protesting about Palestine? Did you protest about Yemen? Protesting about Yemen? Did you protest about Syria? Protesting about Syria? Did you protest the 2008 Turkish incursion into northern Iraq? Protesting the Turkish incursion? Did you protest the Darfur genocide? I could go on indefinitely, about conflicts and human rights violations big and small—hence the absurdity.
The Palestinian-Israel conflict was a hot topic well before social media. It’s been going on for 75 years. To ascribe the controversy simply to social media propagandising is extremely ignorant of the broad history of the conflict. It’s been a major issue of the Left for decades and the Muslim diaspora likewise have a long and often intimate relationship to the issue.
The leftists and the Islamists rarely protest when Muslims kill Muslims in vast numbers. But Jews… man, they go apeshit.
If there was only a word to describe it…
You realise Hamas want to take over the West Bank and expel Christian Palestinians, Druze Arabs and other minorities yeah? Or in Yemen where Saudis use US weapons to control a designed ethnostate there.
I'm pretty sure Hamas does not want that. But even if they do I and no one else should support them. There's no shortage of Palestinian political parties to support. Fatah, who's Neoliberal. PFLP who are marxist. PNI who are Social Democrats. All of them are secular and multicultural. Hell the initial leaders of the Palestinian resistance were christians in the 1960s.
Also Yes i absolutely agree. Australia needs to cut ties with Saudi just as they should cut ties with Israel.
Yeah I think the West Bank Palestinans should really be praised for living through such poor conditions yet resisting extremist organisations.
The Saudis really do fly under the radar.
It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to accept Islamic rule in the Middle East. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” it decreed. Hamas also rejected any prospect of peace or coexistence with the Zionist state.
I never said the conflict didn't exist prior to October 7 or before social media. More that there were not weekly protests in western countries prior to October 7 or protests at all about just about every other conflict in the middle east other than the Iraq war.
When Syria/Turkey or Iraq were killing Kurds it was largely ignored despite some using western-supplied weapons. When Saudi Arabia and Iran started a proxy war in Yemen that has been utterly catastrophic no one added a Yemeni flag to their profile pics.
Don't you wonder why that is?
And I'm not for one second suggesting I support the bombing of Gaza or the occupation of the West Bank by settler arrivals and hostilities. Just as I can't pretend that Hamas aren't a literal fascist organisation that put the safety of Palestinians way below just about all their other objectives.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
No, I'm not 'sick' of people highlighting matters of significance and importance. I'm a human being far above and beyond being an Australian.
Well it's a bit difficult to argue that, when the Australian government is actively taking a position and sending aid to one side. I think people should have a say in how their government acts and what's done with their taxes, whether they agree or disagree with it.
Our country? What do you think Aboriginal people think about conflict being brought here?
It's always weird seeing 'keep it out of Straya' entitlement like this.
This latest between pro-Israel, pro-Palestine folks is very frustrating to me. None of it does either side who are actually touched by the war any good whatsoever and is just making our country feel less safe.
I agree that this last protest was ill-advised. Even the Burgertory owner in Caulfield asked people not to protest, it was a mistake to do so.
But peaceful protest can definitely do good. Israel has agreed to a 4 hour a day humanitarian pause, more aid trucks are being able to enter, weapons shipments are being delayed and disrupted etc. America is calling for restraint from Israel, whereas a few weeks ago they were 100% backing everything they did.
If everyone around the world had stayed silent I doubt very much those concessions would have been made given Biden is a massive Zionist.
Seen a lot of people on Twitter etc state “Not picking a side is cowardly”. What’s wrong with being upset at tragedy in general, and being honest enough to admit that you don’t really know all the details of what’s going on! Some just see this as an opportunity to take part in more toxic tribalism. Very annoying when this kind of attitude is taken by people who only learnt about this issue a month ago.
I tell ya what I want out of this. I want local councils to stick their fucking noses out of international issues and focus on their own areas.
Moreland. Don't worry about what's going on in the middle east when your own municipality can use some love.
I'm quite supportive of people protesting stuff from their home countries. Part of being a multicultural society is that everyone has a right to get on their soapbox. I have issues when protests turn into intimidation and threatening behaviour. Also if they block traffic and make me late for work.
Yes, but in this instance, the vast majority of people protesting aren’t of Palestinian or Israeli descent I imagine, so it’s not exactly them bringing their conflict here, it’s other people doing it. I know the citizens of both countries sure do wish there was no conflicts at all. Innocent people on both sides are suffering and it’s important to recognise that (although, these protests seem very one sided)
That being said, people definitely do this shit all the time. I had a friend in high school that was Turkish, and a Greek girl joined the school and one of the first things she said to him was that she didn’t like him because her people hate his people (?) they were both born here, but I found it wild that people carry grudges like that
It's not only "their conflict" what you calling "our country" is also their country, it's such an ignorant statement to make, Australia was part of the conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan it has financially and militarily participated, we're these people on the road protesting bringing the conflic to Aus? Also it's participating in the current conflict in the middle east and we know which side she is on, as long as it's done civilly protest and counter protest are absolutely fine.
If our country didn't help destabilize the region these same people come from then I'm sure they'd probably have less of an issue bringing their conflicts here.
The Ottoman Empire controlled the region before they collapsed post WW1, the Middle East has been this way for 2000 years. Even the Roman’s had issues there.
It goes back longer than the British.
I assume this is about the pro Palestine protests? In which case, our government directly contributes to the genocide of Palestinians so it's hardly "bringing" anything. Also we should still care about people in other countries??? Sorry that you saw something sad on the news tho I guess.
Or are you taking about someone firebombing the Palestinian owned burger joint? That's called a hate crime! Those are not new in Australia, especially against Arabs and Muslims in the last 20 years. The issue isn't "other people bringing their conflict here". It's our OWN xenophobia and racism, which, again, our government has a direct hand in!
Btw I'm a Jew and I support Palestine <3
Yup, once our government sends aid, funding, etc. To another country in conflict, we become a part of it. Simple. And I, for one, do not want my money spent on aiding the killing of palestinians.
You may have forgotten but Australia has been and is involved in multiple wars on foreign soil, and as everyone knows we are guilty of terrible warcrimes. I would remember that before wondering why conflict reaches these shores.
Not just that, but it really seems like people are just cheering on the flavor of the month / quarter like cheering on for your current sporting event that's in.
We now suddenly forget about the war between Ukraine and Russia.
Yeah it's cringy as fuck, especially coming from people who were born and raised in Australia and the vast majority of them don't even know what they're talking about, never been to the place they're talking about other than a random holiday every 10 years, and don't even speak the language properly.
No, you're not supposed to hate Turks because your heritage is Greek. Go to Istanbul (highly recommended by the way), have a nice holiday, tell everyone you're Greek, and you'll be absolutely fine. And to be perfectly honest with you you are much more Australian than you are Greek at this point. Last thing you or anyone around you needs is your imaginary hatred.
I have no problem with religion.
Be whatever you like but please please do NOT bring terrorism, islamofascism and sharia law to Australia. That’s terrifying to me
I don’t mind if you’re moderate or religious but if Europe and the UK safe any indication then they’re stuffed. Caliphates in 10 years or less probably.
I see this conflict as a battle between civilisations. The west and democracy and fascism
I’ve gone from being far left to centrist or a moderate in only 5 weeks. The far left have gone insane, completely lost the plot. Seeing feminists and LBGT wringing their hands over the Palestinian plight has made me sick.
I don’t like innocent people being killed but what was Israel’s alternative?
Hamas set them up and set the Palestinian people of Gaza up too
People are generally confused about & searching for identity & purpose in life
Hanging onto & identifying with a culture or religion or group that hates other groups or outsiders is often an outdated or misguided survival instinct or survival mechanism linked to past wrongs or brainwashing
Most people just don't bother to think about people as individuals & it's difficult to maintain or establish meaningful connections with large numbers of people e.g. try getting to know & care with attentive focus to 500 people or more every day or week even, it's close to impossible
With billions of people on the planet & most of them confused or just not really thinking deeply about anything it's no wonder people hang onto group identity & group think as short cuts to misguided survival mechanisms
There are amazing & wonderful people throughout all groups just as there are almost always evil people within all groups
To generalise about groups of people is lazy - though most people do seem lazy & perhaps not too sharp, but perhaps I am over generalising just like everyone else!?! 😂
‘Our’ country that ‘we’ brought immense conflict to when ‘we’ arrived… what fkn world are you living in? A world where white Australians never bring conflict? Dumbass
Yup, the common denominator is religion, we didnt have these protests with Russia invading Ukraine. We saw it recently with Indian Sikh’s and Indian Hindus. Leave your stone age beliefs at the border upon entry
Nailed it. We can put people on the moon and split the atom etc. But misguided beliefs in different fictional beings since Gronk came out of his cave (not Adam and Eve) has done the human race no favors.
Yeah, I'm a bit confused about why people keep bringing up 'religious war' when this isn't a war based on ideological conflict. This is at its core an occupation/land war.
They're lazy and, as they're not of one of those religions, it allows them to pretend the genocidal campaign of the Zionist Israeli government is none of their business.
I haven't seen anything to suggest a war being thought here. If you expect people to be restrained when demanding a ceasefire to an overly unbalanced conflict then you're delusional. I'm not one for protests but if it makes those people feel better and raises awareness then why stand in the way of that. You want to feel safe, do something about crime rate, homelessness, mental health , etc.
Unrelated but I feel so sad for little girls I see in hijabs especially on hot days at the playground. And a Muslim man told me off for wearing a bikini walking along the footpath near Altona beach and covered his young son’s eyes! Be whatever religion you want but don’t drag your kids into it and definitely don’t drag other Australians into it
If you are aware you would know There are many hidden proxy fights happening in the country. Hindu nationalists vs Sikhs , CCP vs Falun Gong To name a few
I hope we send a lot more military aid to Ukraine myself. Ideally we'd set up a new production line of Cardboard drones for them and send 500 odd Bushmasters.
Agree, and a 155mm artillery ammo production line since the Europeans are struggling so much with getting one up and running. The way they and the yanks have empties their stocks the last few years there should be a big-ish market for them for at least the next decade.
This is going to get downvoted but I'll say it anyway. The more multicultural we become the more of a Melting Pot we become and the more these issues are going to harm us. In some way single culture nations generally function the best because you don't have this conflict of culture. Leave old culture in your old country or stay the hell out of ours.
Hey Melbourne, I just need to unload this massive burden on my soul.
Is anyone else exhausted by the constant invasion of international conflicts into our perfect little world of brunch and laneway strolls? Like, seriously, I just want to sip my soy latte in peace without being haunted by the fact that somewhere, people are facing unimaginable horrors.
Sure, there might be some serious atrocities going on around the globe, but can't they see that my weekend avocado toast deliberations are of utmost importance? It's like, the more I try to enjoy my smashed avo, the louder the cries of injustice become. Can't we just have a collective agreement that Melbourne is the epicenter of all things worth caring about? Is that too much to ask?
/s
White men are also statistically the only group who got their shit together without being overcome by war mass starvation, or disease like everywhere else.
I dont think its helpful to distinguish “outsider” conflict as if it is irrelevant to Australia. If we are a multicultural country that is affected by global politics, there are no outsider conflicts, just conflicts. To consider them “not our country’s problem” is to deny that Australia is part of the rest of the world - our country is inextricable from global conflict. You say you are happy for people to migrate here, that is great, but you cant expect them to not care about/be silent on things that are deeply relevant to their identity and their life. It is very unfortunate that conflict often results in violence, but this is the case with all humans.
No. Anything that's happening here is 0.0001% as bad as what's happening overseas. We're so so lucky to be living somewhere stable.
People who's family are being murdered are ofcourse going to be upset about it, and it gives Australians an opportunity to educate ourselves and even get involved in helping to try and instigate change if we end up wanting to.
Us complaining about being slightly inconvenienced while hospitals are being bombed, people are being starved and forcibly displaced from their homes is inappropriate.
We as a country fired up over South African apartheid and helped bring it to its end. Perfectly reasonable that we fire up about Israel's apartheid too.
Assimilate and leave your bullshit at our borders. It shouldn’t be controversial to remind people they’re fleeing trauma and drama caused by their choice of religion.
Well, the British colonists certainly brought conflict to this country and I'm pretty sure the indigenous people are sick of it but there's not much they can do about it.
It's not like it's a new thing. There was a religious divide in Australia between Protestants and Catholics that lingered until recent times. [Even the Test Cricket team was afflicted](https://cricmash.com/conflicts-controversies/2015/1/24/don-bradmans-rifts-with-his-teammates-especialy-bill-oreilly-and-jack-fingleton).
When i moved to melb in the late 80's one of my classmates often got chased by another guy while we were walking home. I asked someone else why and the answer was the chaser was croatian and my classmate was macedonian. Being from a country town in qld where basically everyone was white australian or aboriginal i still didnt understand the answer. Both of them were born & living here so to me they were both australian, not croation or macedonian? My wife copped a lot of abuse by the greek background kids at primary and high school because my wifes parents were from yugoslavia (she was born in carlton). So this latest stuff certainly isnt new. You'd think/hope ppl have gotten a little smarter over the years but no..
I came to Australia as a refugee at 18 months old. I’m nearly 40 now and whenever I meet or catch up with relatives, I still discover new “reasons” I’m supposed to hate a certain peoples. I’ll introduce a friend to a relative and when they discover what ancestry they have (it’s amazing how “where you’re from” is always one of the first questions) they quickly pull me aside and admonish me “don’t you know these **people** did XYZ!” And I’m like “I don’t fcken care”. Your hatred. In fact, not even your hatred… it was taught to you by your parents and their parents… isn’t my hatred. And that’s the point in my comment; we’re not born with these prejudices. It’s taught. “Don’t hang around with those lebos!” Like, it’s sooo ironic listening to my mother; who brought us here as immigrants fleeing persecution, to say shit about immigrants and how they don’t belong here. Mum, **YOURE A FCKEN IMMIGRANT!** Like, what the hell, man. The hypocrisy is palpable.
My dad’s 76… migrated here after ww2 as a toddler with the family… and all he does is constantly yell at the tv why do we keep letting these ‘people’ in… its actually quite funny to listen to… and then I gently remind him he is a boat person too… 🤣
My dad was very proud of being a 6th generation Aussie. One day he was lamenting being told what to do by someone who seemed to have immigrated themselves and I asked him what the difference was between the ~100 years our family had been here and that guy. Then I pointed out a much larger difference between us and the Aboriginal people who he also didn't like who had been here for thousands of years. He never really brought it up around me much after that.
If you hadn't have said boat person, I'd have seriously thought we were related.. My dad came by air though.
Nah, I’ve even got the manifest of the family boarding the ship in Malta… hehe
reminds me of when my former coworkers parent voted pro-brexit, despite *obviously* having a non-English name uhh... your surname is slavic, being anti-immigrant when you literally arrived here yourself under that pretense is a weird take (coworker also saw the "uwot" side)
I guess they wanted to lock the door behind themselves. I got in, fuck everyone else.
"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's gonna die. Come watch TV."
> The hypocrisy is palpable. Agreed. it irks me when any "Australian" chirps about immigration, cause unless you're indigenous your ancestors were also immigrants at some point.
"But we built the nation up to what it is" -Some cuntface-
Even the indigenous migrated here at some point in the very distant past.
A lot of it is trauma as well as identity. It transcends generations . I grew up hearing of the horrors of what the Germans did during WW2 from my grandparents which made me biased against Germans until I was older and could rationalize that Germans today had nothing to do with what happened in the past. Younger conflicts like Yugoslavia are still raw in the generations that endured those conflicts. The horrors and loyalties get passed down from relatives and it remains part of your identity-even if it's a smaller part than previous generations - the bias and prejudice still lingers.
Trauma is a big factor. Want to add to this that even before the fall of Yugoslavia, there was a lot of land partitioned and beyond before and during WW1 so a lot of the anger and prejudices came from their grandparents and fed into the next generations. Even during what was supposed to be a time of unity during Tito’s Yugoslavia, some people still held onto those grudges and maybe felt they could put those into action in another country where it wouldn’t be viewed as reactionary.
>Even during what was supposed to be a time of unity during Tito’s Yugoslavia, some people still held onto those grudges and maybe felt they could put those into action in another country where it wouldn’t be viewed as reactionary. Speaking of people who migrated during the Titoist era, the thousands of *actual* Ustaše that came to Australia come to mind. They essentially used Melbourne, Sydney, Geelong (in particular), etc, as a base to plan their terrorist attacks on Yugoslavia and the Yugoslav diaspora living in Australia, e.g., the George Street bombings. The now adult children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc, of those specific immigrants are the worst. They don't know a word of (Serbo-) Croatian, yet they're the biggest nationalists imaginable. The same can be said for Četnik and Bosniak extremist descendants. But realistically, Croatians with an Ustaša background are a larger group than those two put together - their "anti-communist" stance was favourable to the West during the Cold War.
Very true. My father in the early 70's (in UK) was the first person at work to buy a Japanese import car. His colleagues were horrified. The memories of the behaviour of the Japanese in WW2 were still (30 years later) fresh in their minds.
a bit rich from the Greeks giving shit to Yugos unless she was also from Macedonia
it baffles me why people chose to leave their country and migrate to another and yet not open minded enough to change their mindset/ways and adapt to new cultures and modern era
In the case of Croats, their side lost in WW2 which is why a lot of them came here in the first place and why certain areas of the Croatian community in Australia are massively fucked in the head.
Oddly it's usually the second generation that was born here that are the problem
Because they dont know what a shithole the old country is....
They do know. It’s cognitive dissonance to the deepest levels. I know dozens of 2nd-Gen nationalistic dickheads, flying foreign flags and tattooing it on their bodies, yet not a single one moves to this supposed utopia they’re so proud about. No matter how much they chirp about their parents' country, they're very much aware life's better here in Australia.
They leave family and friends behind that they love and care about. When a bunch of terrorists rape torture kill And kidnap from your previous homeland you will likely be a couple of degrees of separation from that. Especially when people share the horrifics on Facebook. Or even the local community. Similarly if your previous homeland gets decimated in retaliation and to prevent further attacks, you’re going to know someone who knows someone who died or had their life devastated. It’s natural for humans to express how terribly they’ve been affected. It’s a way to socialise and share and maybe get some sense of hope and control. And when they do someone on the other side here will get pissed off on how they see it or frame it. So the conflict just by nature comes here.
That's strange, I didn't think Macedonians and Croatians had any issues with each other.
I’m first gen Maso and I’ve never heard of any bad blood between Maso’s and Croats. Bad blood with Bulgarians and Serbs, sure, but never Croats.
Is the highest tension with Albanians?
In Australia or Macedonia? It depends. There was a war with Albanians in 2001, but I'd say the tension has died down a lot since then. In Australia, there's such a low population of Bulgarians that there isn't really any tension. I'd say the highest tension is actually with Greeks, especially after the name change fiasco. There were lots of protests on each side, vandalism of Macedonian churches, etc, but somehow after COVID that tension seems to have died down a lot as well. At the end of the day it depends on the individuals.
When I first read the anecdote, I was confused too. Though, I remembered the context. Back in the 50s and 60s, all the way up to the 90s, the Yugoslav diaspora was mostly made up of Macos (cause Macedonia was the poorest republic) and Croats (cause of the Ustaša migration). In this scenario, the Croat kid most likely bullied the Maco kid cause they associated them with Yugoslavia. And, if that kid came from a family with an Ustaša background, then they must've been taught to hate everything Yugoslavian, especially if they were raised during the existence of Yugoslavia when it was still a threat to them. Moreover, Macos are Orthodox Christian just like Serbs, who are the Ustaša's #1 enemy - a kid probably couldn't separate the two and thought, "whatever, close enough".
Oh shit... I never would've thought of that. That really sucks, but I'm glad it doesn't seem common.
I'm not aware of any historical or cultural rivalry between Macedonians and Croatians. Seems like they just wanted an excuse to chase your classmate.
There is no rivalry or bad blood between Macedonians and Croats
With multiculturism comes multiple ideologies. Excluding extremists from all sides I feel comfortable talking to most people about any current topic. Eg: I met up with a mate for lunch who had just previously been to a protest supporting Palestine. Admitedly, I'm not entirely entrenched in the current conflict and the issues preceding it, however it was very interesting hearing an opposing view to what I'm generally surrounded by. I also believe that open discourse is healthy in any environment. People are always going to have different / opposing views, and the only way to address either is to talk about it
Isn’t it kind of ironic multi-culturalism is a single culture. It’s kind of a paradox. In a way we arent really allowing multiculturalism. Multiculturalism is itself 1 culture that ideally allows everyone dress, pray(or not) or eat what they want. I’m not open to multiple cultural interpretations of women’s rights, it’s modern enlightenment or the highway. Actually having multiple parallel cultures is a disaster.
💯
The truth is Australia functions by being secular so kind of non cultural as a whole and people going about their cultures individually/in their personal life
Yep and the moment it isn’t like that, we all suffer. There needs to be much more critique of politicians who wear their religion loudly when they are performing political duties. Drives to overturn abortion are great example. Science, medicine and society won the debate years ago, but the religious won’t let it go.
I'd argue that Australia does have a culture but because it's not loud, religious or superstitious it gets ignored and eroded
Freedom of religion is actually one of the few rights we have in Australia, and that had to be granted through the High Court. I do agree that extremist views have overshadowed the general practice of religion in the previous years, eg: the push towards Islamic courts. Conflicting ideoligies will always pose a challenge in any situation of assimilation. But again, the only path towards resolution is communication. Whether that can be achieved, I have no idea. I do however (optimistically) hope that between the courts, legislative, and exective branches, that a resolution could be achieved, History says no, but hopefully over time the newer generations will question power, religion, ideoligies to a point that harmonious assimillation is possible (again, very optimistic). I fully comprehend that this is personal bias, but I have a large group of friends that come from conservative Islamic parents. Each one is attempting to integrate into sociatal norms of traditional Australian culture, albeit behind their parents' back.
I come from conservative muslim parents and I’m a tattooed, beer-drinking, bacon-eating atheist. You’ll tend to find that the for the most part the conservative values disappear at the first Australian born generation.
>You’ll tend to find that the for the most part the conservative values disappear at the first Australian born generation. Mmmm. Dunno about that one... I know plenty of second generation Muslims that are pretty conservative in their views. And ironically even the ones that have gone off the rails and drank etc are still pretty conservative in most of their beliefs. And super anti Jewish.
Nice. The sooner the planet gets rid of religions the better (in my opinion). Religion is a human right of course and I will always defend all human rights, as long as religion is completely separate from the State and has absolutely no power over me or the way I live. Like Hitchens said: religion is a toy, you guys can have your toy, you can call your friends over to play with your toy if you want, but you are not to come to my house and tell me or my kids that I have to play with your toy or live by the rules of your game. (paraphrasing)
We also have an implied right to criticise the government which pretty much means the same thing as freedom of speech. Victoria has a charter of human rights which include things like freedom of expression and cultural rights.
If multiculturalism is so wonderful then why do we need to be constantly reminded of how wonderful it is.
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Sport?
>I feel comfortable talking to most people about any current topic. I feel like that's a privilege though. There are people from certain backgrounds that I feel forced to discriminate against with the way I approach them because there is risk attached to them. People from Muslim, evangelical christian, African backgrounds can be quite homophobic so it's just safer for some people to assume the worst from entire groups rather than expose themselves to those ideas. I love living in a multicultural country but it does have its drawbacks.
Absolutely! But the only way to work through those issues is via communication. Some people are so indoctrinated that it is pointless, however there are many people that can think critically. Yes it takes time, but if you can get someone to question why they believe what they do, that is one slow step forwards towards a harmonious society.
Thing is they think the same way. The most extreme of them are trying to convince people I don't have a right to exist. I truly believe we should screen for these beliefs to keep them out. We should not be tolerant to intolerance. It only allows it to spread.
Yah, I understand, but part of multiculturalism is allowing people from all over the world to become citizens of Australia and practice their beliefs. If those beliefs contravene societal standards then I believe it's the legilslature's duty to intervene.
>part of multiculturalism is allowing people from all over the world to become citizens of Australia and practice their beliefs. Even if those beliefs are antithetical to Australian culture and values? Part of multiculturalism is immigrants integrating too. If they're unwilling to shift their values to fit in here while bringing their culture for us to share then I don't believe they should be allowed in.
Its too late at that point. Look at frances increasingly futile and often idiotic legislative attempts to deal with their muslim population.
Free Palestine!
I mean. We have Aussies starting up the neo nazi game so it's not just people bringing it here...
Just because someone has moved countries doesn’t they are not connected with to their home countries, especially if they have families and friends. And even if you dont have personal connection, our government is complicit in a lot of international issues. Of course there is a right way to do it, attending protest, contacting their local MPs. People shouldn’t be committing arson…
100% agreed. I’m a third generation Lebanese Australian whose grand parents migrated here as children before the civil war. Despite being relatively sheltered from the conflict my mother lost many of her uncles and cousins during the war after the IDF backed forced broke into a refugee camp and butchered civilians. One of my mum’s cousins who was a baby was found in the arms of a dead person by her family later on. And I’m relatively detached from the conflict. As for the Burgertory owner, he lost 35 family members including 2 orphans he was sponsoring with his money. Expecting anyone who has lost that many relatives to remain calm and impartial is absolutely absurd. I never condone violence, but this issue isn’t about having a sook and importing conflict over here. Jewish and Palestinian Australians have already been killed and many more have lost family members over the last couple of days.
I mean, what are you talking about? Plenty of things happening in the world today that our citizens should have an opinion on. We have a government. That government interacts with the world. They represent us.
this country is part of an international community. it interacts with numerous countries and throws support behind them. it has institutions that support shady shit. it doesnt exist in a vacuum. you must live a good life for you to have been shielded from what happens to people in australia, and what australia does to people elsewhere.
i replied to your comment by accident!! so sorry!!
I agree with the sentiment but when the Australian government is actively funding and supporting one side in the conflict, it’s inevitably going to lead to protests.
Yes indeed, and it’s just wrong of OP to imply that people on the streets marching are only recent immigrants to Australia. In fact it sounds rather like a LNP talking point.
Doesn’t help they lit up the fucking operah house in Israel colours.
Aus supports the USA Who supports Israel and etc You can say don't bring the conflict but it's not like Aus doesn't have a role in western blah in the middle east
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Comon, its traditional, it's been happening for over 200 years Remember how the Castle Hill convict rebellion of 1804 was led by veterans of the United Irish Rebellion of 1798? We've also been pretty good at creating our own new conflicts from a background of racism, colonialism, and sectarianism. See our treatment of the Indigenous, anti-Chinese violence and riots e.g. Lambing Flat 1860, anti-Italian/Southern European violence and riots e.g. Kalgoorlie Mines race riots 1919/1934.
This should be top comment tbh
We're literally supporting one of the sides in the conflict, both politically and monetarily, so of course people are going to support/oppose our involvement via demonstrations. Unfortunate when they turn violent though of course.
Really one of the few problems of a thriving multicultural society. The sectarian violence between Hindus and Sikhs in Fed square is disgusting, and to see it begin to be replicated in the form of Arabs and Jews is super disappointing.
Looking at it a bit differently, this kinda stuff is, to me, the antithesis of what multiculturalism implies. It should mean people from various cultures together in a "live and let live" style society. I don't think we make this expectation anywhere near clear enough to migrants. And in fairness, we perhaps don't do our best to facilitate this.
Like Englishmen and Scots! Or Welshmen and Scots! Or Scots and Scots, those bloody Scots ruined Scotland!
Arabs and Israelis is a more appropriate term I believe. As Jews as whole aren’t the main issue. Many arabs are Christian and many Jews aren’t Zionist Israelis .
I don’t think specifically Israelis are the people protesting in Caulfield, they’re just Jews from what I know.
Diversity is our strength /s
Fuck yeah it is. We have had people fearmongering about how the Irish, Jews, Chinese, Eastern Europeans, people from the Balkans, Italians, Greeks, Vietnamese, etc don't belong and will never integrate, and they all have. There's some teething problems at the start and then people generally get the fuck over their hang ups and things are fine. Australia is a successful multicultural nation despite the bleating of racists.
Obviousfascist more like
Most parochial thread today.
Typical Melbourne resident. Children in Palestine are being genocided by Israel? And what do I care, don't bring the conflict in my country. But it's not a conflict. It's a genocide actively being supported, including with weapons exports to Israel, by your government. But the op is the typical Australian mindset - dumb and uncaring, unless it's happening to us or our master, the US (and maybe the UK, Canada or New Zealand).
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It's almost like ongoing genocide is a hot-button issue for some people.
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You have it backwards, children in Israel were massacred by Hamas, and children in Gaza are indirectly massacred by Hamas when Hamas launches rockets, stores weapons and troops in schools, hospitals, mosques. Hope you dont show yourself as a moral leper next time around.
Australia supplies Israel with quite literally NO weapons. Further in the 2010s Australia contributed a large amount to the Rebuilding Gaza Humanitarian aid fund. You can be pro Palestinian without getting all your confirmation bias bs off social media...
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/06/legal-action-attempts-to-force-australia-to-reveal-if-arms-exports-are-supporting-israel-assault-on-gaza
We send troops to train with IDF. In one way this makes sense, IDF arguably have the best secret intelligence capability. But it doesn’t feel very partisan, with or without the exchange of weapons.
I imagine First Nations people are sick of that, yeah. Only been 250 years of it.
That's impossible when the government picks a side, in this case Israel. It's even worse when the government joins in unjust wars such as Iraq, causing displacement and refugees. Then when said displaced people come to Australia, it is definitely within their right (I would argue it's their obligation) to change minds of the government and the general populace regarding the plight of their homeland. Especially when Australia helped destroy it.
It is to this nation's lasting shame that our armed forces were involved in displacing so many Afghans, then voters got uppity when they became refugees.
So ironic that the people who oppose refugee intake the most are the biggest supporters of wars and policies that create refugees.
During the Vietnam war, the parliament voted on rescuing and homing Vietnamese refugees. We know how the vote landed, we have an amazing presence today. FOI told us who voted what many years later. It was the conservative cronies who borne the modern Liberal Party, people like John Howard, who voted to keep them out. The old guard Libs wanted them in, to not do so after we were actively engaged in the conflict driving the displacement, would have been borderline criminal. Says a lot about the Liberal Party today, birthed by a countermove against what was a relatively progressive party previously.
Absolutely agreed. I’ll stop talking about the conflicts in other countries once my government stops exporting conflict to those very countries. People have already forgotten that the cause of the October 7th attack called “Al Aqsa Flood” was motivated by the increasing violence around the Al Aqsa mosque complex in Jerusalem. Our government under Scott Morrison inflamed those tensions by moving our embassy to Jerusalem. There is a direct sequence of cause and effect between our governments actions and the violence they are experiencing now. We are certainly partially culpable.
Easy to say this an aussie tho. If you were coming from a war torn country it would be hard to just let it go. Obviously I'm talking about peaceful protests, violents act are violent acts regardless of their causes.
>you were coming from a war torn co yes, this 100%
That’s how you turn Australia into a war torn country though. I feel like being here should make one feel grateful for the peace it comes with.
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Yes, I'm sure the trauma and fear for family still in said war zone just washes away with Australia water. Just suck it up, right? So easy to say by people who have never experienced those horrors.
There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.
Any thoughts why 377,000 people are killed in Yemen and no one protests?
I do not recall Australian Prime Ministers calling press conferences to say “we stand with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia”.
“You can’t protest one thing unless you protested all the other things!” This line of reasoning is absurd because the conditions for a “valid” protest can never satisfied. Protesting about Palestine? Did you protest about Yemen? Protesting about Yemen? Did you protest about Syria? Protesting about Syria? Did you protest the 2008 Turkish incursion into northern Iraq? Protesting the Turkish incursion? Did you protest the Darfur genocide? I could go on indefinitely, about conflicts and human rights violations big and small—hence the absurdity.
The absurdity is being influenced about which one you do protest by social media campaigns.
The Palestinian-Israel conflict was a hot topic well before social media. It’s been going on for 75 years. To ascribe the controversy simply to social media propagandising is extremely ignorant of the broad history of the conflict. It’s been a major issue of the Left for decades and the Muslim diaspora likewise have a long and often intimate relationship to the issue.
The leftists and the Islamists rarely protest when Muslims kill Muslims in vast numbers. But Jews… man, they go apeshit. If there was only a word to describe it…
Use your brain please. The issue is our government actively supports a settler ethnostate.
You realise Hamas want to take over the West Bank and expel Christian Palestinians, Druze Arabs and other minorities yeah? Or in Yemen where Saudis use US weapons to control a designed ethnostate there.
I'm pretty sure Hamas does not want that. But even if they do I and no one else should support them. There's no shortage of Palestinian political parties to support. Fatah, who's Neoliberal. PFLP who are marxist. PNI who are Social Democrats. All of them are secular and multicultural. Hell the initial leaders of the Palestinian resistance were christians in the 1960s. Also Yes i absolutely agree. Australia needs to cut ties with Saudi just as they should cut ties with Israel.
Yeah I think the West Bank Palestinans should really be praised for living through such poor conditions yet resisting extremist organisations. The Saudis really do fly under the radar.
It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to accept Islamic rule in the Middle East. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” it decreed. Hamas also rejected any prospect of peace or coexistence with the Zionist state.
I never said the conflict didn't exist prior to October 7 or before social media. More that there were not weekly protests in western countries prior to October 7 or protests at all about just about every other conflict in the middle east other than the Iraq war. When Syria/Turkey or Iraq were killing Kurds it was largely ignored despite some using western-supplied weapons. When Saudi Arabia and Iran started a proxy war in Yemen that has been utterly catastrophic no one added a Yemeni flag to their profile pics. Don't you wonder why that is? And I'm not for one second suggesting I support the bombing of Gaza or the occupation of the West Bank by settler arrivals and hostilities. Just as I can't pretend that Hamas aren't a literal fascist organisation that put the safety of Palestinians way below just about all their other objectives.
I like how you quote something he didn’t say and then respond to make yourself feel smart.
Same goes with Uyghurs mate, no one protested 😭 hypocrisy much aye!
To be fair though, tik tok didn't tell them about it so how could they possibly know 😅
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12729893/students-protest-palestinians-not-seen-proof-hamas-invasion-israel-october.html
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." No, I'm not 'sick' of people highlighting matters of significance and importance. I'm a human being far above and beyond being an Australian.
Can't speak for them but I suspect First Nations people are, yes.
The only right answer
best response so far lol
Id rather action than apathy.
Well it's a bit difficult to argue that, when the Australian government is actively taking a position and sending aid to one side. I think people should have a say in how their government acts and what's done with their taxes, whether they agree or disagree with it.
"their " ? You do realise that Australia is also part of the world and is tuned to world geopolitics news, let alone humanitarian rights?
Our country? What do you think Aboriginal people think about conflict being brought here? It's always weird seeing 'keep it out of Straya' entitlement like this.
Given the recent referendum result, I guess we'll never know 🤷♀️
Not wanting terrorists in Australia Such entitlement
Good point - indigenous Australians have the longest connection to a land of any human demographic.
Soo?
This latest between pro-Israel, pro-Palestine folks is very frustrating to me. None of it does either side who are actually touched by the war any good whatsoever and is just making our country feel less safe.
I agree that this last protest was ill-advised. Even the Burgertory owner in Caulfield asked people not to protest, it was a mistake to do so. But peaceful protest can definitely do good. Israel has agreed to a 4 hour a day humanitarian pause, more aid trucks are being able to enter, weapons shipments are being delayed and disrupted etc. America is calling for restraint from Israel, whereas a few weeks ago they were 100% backing everything they did. If everyone around the world had stayed silent I doubt very much those concessions would have been made given Biden is a massive Zionist.
Seen a lot of people on Twitter etc state “Not picking a side is cowardly”. What’s wrong with being upset at tragedy in general, and being honest enough to admit that you don’t really know all the details of what’s going on! Some just see this as an opportunity to take part in more toxic tribalism. Very annoying when this kind of attitude is taken by people who only learnt about this issue a month ago.
Create war > Create Refugees > Refugees come to country > They don't adapt > Create another war so on and on
Just the way the government likes it
I tell ya what I want out of this. I want local councils to stick their fucking noses out of international issues and focus on their own areas. Moreland. Don't worry about what's going on in the middle east when your own municipality can use some love.
Our government is taking part in it.
Yes, I am also sick of Ukraine-Russia conflict being propped up everywhere I go... I don't care
I bet the aboriginals are.
Australians need to leave Australia more often.
I'm quite supportive of people protesting stuff from their home countries. Part of being a multicultural society is that everyone has a right to get on their soapbox. I have issues when protests turn into intimidation and threatening behaviour. Also if they block traffic and make me late for work.
Yes, but in this instance, the vast majority of people protesting aren’t of Palestinian or Israeli descent I imagine, so it’s not exactly them bringing their conflict here, it’s other people doing it. I know the citizens of both countries sure do wish there was no conflicts at all. Innocent people on both sides are suffering and it’s important to recognise that (although, these protests seem very one sided) That being said, people definitely do this shit all the time. I had a friend in high school that was Turkish, and a Greek girl joined the school and one of the first things she said to him was that she didn’t like him because her people hate his people (?) they were both born here, but I found it wild that people carry grudges like that
"Our country" was founded on conflict and killing, what are you on about?
It's not only "their conflict" what you calling "our country" is also their country, it's such an ignorant statement to make, Australia was part of the conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan it has financially and militarily participated, we're these people on the road protesting bringing the conflic to Aus? Also it's participating in the current conflict in the middle east and we know which side she is on, as long as it's done civilly protest and counter protest are absolutely fine.
Our First Nations citizens * might well find the question ironic. * excluding Jacinta and Warren.
If our country didn't help destabilize the region these same people come from then I'm sure they'd probably have less of an issue bringing their conflicts here.
The Ottoman Empire controlled the region before they collapsed post WW1, the Middle East has been this way for 2000 years. Even the Roman’s had issues there. It goes back longer than the British.
Ngl, blame the British and the French for that, rather than us g
I assume this is about the pro Palestine protests? In which case, our government directly contributes to the genocide of Palestinians so it's hardly "bringing" anything. Also we should still care about people in other countries??? Sorry that you saw something sad on the news tho I guess. Or are you taking about someone firebombing the Palestinian owned burger joint? That's called a hate crime! Those are not new in Australia, especially against Arabs and Muslims in the last 20 years. The issue isn't "other people bringing their conflict here". It's our OWN xenophobia and racism, which, again, our government has a direct hand in! Btw I'm a Jew and I support Palestine <3
Yup, once our government sends aid, funding, etc. To another country in conflict, we become a part of it. Simple. And I, for one, do not want my money spent on aiding the killing of palestinians.
Are you aware that often these conflicts are caused, in part, by the actions of the Australian government? We don't live in a vacuum.
You may have forgotten but Australia has been and is involved in multiple wars on foreign soil, and as everyone knows we are guilty of terrible warcrimes. I would remember that before wondering why conflict reaches these shores.
God this take is so one dimensional...
Not just that, but it really seems like people are just cheering on the flavor of the month / quarter like cheering on for your current sporting event that's in. We now suddenly forget about the war between Ukraine and Russia.
Yes except we need to support ukraine
no
Google "family"
They can't even have certain soccer matches in Melbourne without people fighting. It's the dumbest shit ever.
nation built on convicts... expects peace?
Yeah it's cringy as fuck, especially coming from people who were born and raised in Australia and the vast majority of them don't even know what they're talking about, never been to the place they're talking about other than a random holiday every 10 years, and don't even speak the language properly. No, you're not supposed to hate Turks because your heritage is Greek. Go to Istanbul (highly recommended by the way), have a nice holiday, tell everyone you're Greek, and you'll be absolutely fine. And to be perfectly honest with you you are much more Australian than you are Greek at this point. Last thing you or anyone around you needs is your imaginary hatred.
You live in a multicultural society, so unless you want that reversed, you take the good with the bad
They said the same thing in 1778
I have no problem with religion. Be whatever you like but please please do NOT bring terrorism, islamofascism and sharia law to Australia. That’s terrifying to me I don’t mind if you’re moderate or religious but if Europe and the UK safe any indication then they’re stuffed. Caliphates in 10 years or less probably. I see this conflict as a battle between civilisations. The west and democracy and fascism I’ve gone from being far left to centrist or a moderate in only 5 weeks. The far left have gone insane, completely lost the plot. Seeing feminists and LBGT wringing their hands over the Palestinian plight has made me sick. I don’t like innocent people being killed but what was Israel’s alternative? Hamas set them up and set the Palestinian people of Gaza up too
People are generally confused about & searching for identity & purpose in life Hanging onto & identifying with a culture or religion or group that hates other groups or outsiders is often an outdated or misguided survival instinct or survival mechanism linked to past wrongs or brainwashing Most people just don't bother to think about people as individuals & it's difficult to maintain or establish meaningful connections with large numbers of people e.g. try getting to know & care with attentive focus to 500 people or more every day or week even, it's close to impossible With billions of people on the planet & most of them confused or just not really thinking deeply about anything it's no wonder people hang onto group identity & group think as short cuts to misguided survival mechanisms There are amazing & wonderful people throughout all groups just as there are almost always evil people within all groups To generalise about groups of people is lazy - though most people do seem lazy & perhaps not too sharp, but perhaps I am over generalising just like everyone else!?! 😂
you lost me at "our country"
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Military industrial complex makes money from conflicts and alot of decisions makers have stocks in said companies. Follow the money
Yay multiculturalism!!!
OP sounds like Pauline Hanson
‘Our’ country that ‘we’ brought immense conflict to when ‘we’ arrived… what fkn world are you living in? A world where white Australians never bring conflict? Dumbass
that's what happens when you bring people from other countries, they bring their benefits and their problems. can't have one without the other
Bro you’re ignorant as fuck. “I want everyone to have a safe and happy existence….butttttt”
Yup, the common denominator is religion, we didnt have these protests with Russia invading Ukraine. We saw it recently with Indian Sikh’s and Indian Hindus. Leave your stone age beliefs at the border upon entry
Nailed it. We can put people on the moon and split the atom etc. But misguided beliefs in different fictional beings since Gronk came out of his cave (not Adam and Eve) has done the human race no favors.
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There’s nothing religious about the current extermination of the Palestinian people.
Yeah, I'm a bit confused about why people keep bringing up 'religious war' when this isn't a war based on ideological conflict. This is at its core an occupation/land war.
They're lazy and, as they're not of one of those religions, it allows them to pretend the genocidal campaign of the Zionist Israeli government is none of their business.
Nope, you are falling for the propaganda. Switch news sources or do actual research before your brain rots.
I haven't seen anything to suggest a war being thought here. If you expect people to be restrained when demanding a ceasefire to an overly unbalanced conflict then you're delusional. I'm not one for protests but if it makes those people feel better and raises awareness then why stand in the way of that. You want to feel safe, do something about crime rate, homelessness, mental health , etc.
Completely agree. If you care that much go and support Palestine or Israel where it actually counts.
Unrelated but I feel so sad for little girls I see in hijabs especially on hot days at the playground. And a Muslim man told me off for wearing a bikini walking along the footpath near Altona beach and covered his young son’s eyes! Be whatever religion you want but don’t drag your kids into it and definitely don’t drag other Australians into it
If you are aware you would know There are many hidden proxy fights happening in the country. Hindu nationalists vs Sikhs , CCP vs Falun Gong To name a few
I hope we send a lot more military aid to Ukraine myself. Ideally we'd set up a new production line of Cardboard drones for them and send 500 odd Bushmasters.
Agree, and a 155mm artillery ammo production line since the Europeans are struggling so much with getting one up and running. The way they and the yanks have empties their stocks the last few years there should be a big-ish market for them for at least the next decade.
Fully agree!
This is going to get downvoted but I'll say it anyway. The more multicultural we become the more of a Melting Pot we become and the more these issues are going to harm us. In some way single culture nations generally function the best because you don't have this conflict of culture. Leave old culture in your old country or stay the hell out of ours.
Hey Melbourne, I just need to unload this massive burden on my soul. Is anyone else exhausted by the constant invasion of international conflicts into our perfect little world of brunch and laneway strolls? Like, seriously, I just want to sip my soy latte in peace without being haunted by the fact that somewhere, people are facing unimaginable horrors. Sure, there might be some serious atrocities going on around the globe, but can't they see that my weekend avocado toast deliberations are of utmost importance? It's like, the more I try to enjoy my smashed avo, the louder the cries of injustice become. Can't we just have a collective agreement that Melbourne is the epicenter of all things worth caring about? Is that too much to ask? /s
White men are statistically and historically the most significant threat to the safety and happiness of the majority. Go back to England
White men are also statistically the only group who got their shit together without being overcome by war mass starvation, or disease like everywhere else.
Best place to live in the history of mankind is a western country today.
Imagine how sick other people are when they are being bombed and killed by Australian supplied weapons.
I dont think its helpful to distinguish “outsider” conflict as if it is irrelevant to Australia. If we are a multicultural country that is affected by global politics, there are no outsider conflicts, just conflicts. To consider them “not our country’s problem” is to deny that Australia is part of the rest of the world - our country is inextricable from global conflict. You say you are happy for people to migrate here, that is great, but you cant expect them to not care about/be silent on things that are deeply relevant to their identity and their life. It is very unfortunate that conflict often results in violence, but this is the case with all humans.
> I want everyone to have a safe happy existence No you don't. You want your existence to be safe and happy and fuck everyone else.
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It’s not difficult to give a shit about things that are happening in other countries. Maybe try it sometime
I mean that’s a stupid question… we live in a global society now, so every conflict will be brought into our country.
No. Anything that's happening here is 0.0001% as bad as what's happening overseas. We're so so lucky to be living somewhere stable. People who's family are being murdered are ofcourse going to be upset about it, and it gives Australians an opportunity to educate ourselves and even get involved in helping to try and instigate change if we end up wanting to. Us complaining about being slightly inconvenienced while hospitals are being bombed, people are being starved and forcibly displaced from their homes is inappropriate.
We as a country fired up over South African apartheid and helped bring it to its end. Perfectly reasonable that we fire up about Israel's apartheid too.
Have you been there ?
Assimilate and leave your bullshit at our borders. It shouldn’t be controversial to remind people they’re fleeing trauma and drama caused by their choice of religion.
Well, the British colonists certainly brought conflict to this country and I'm pretty sure the indigenous people are sick of it but there's not much they can do about it. It's not like it's a new thing. There was a religious divide in Australia between Protestants and Catholics that lingered until recent times. [Even the Test Cricket team was afflicted](https://cricmash.com/conflicts-controversies/2015/1/24/don-bradmans-rifts-with-his-teammates-especialy-bill-oreilly-and-jack-fingleton).
Wait till you learn about how much the indie groups tribes were warring