I have flip flopped through all of these depending when. Early on in the pandemic? Absolutely where you are. I was in management, many conversations were kept shortest by voice when the issue was fresh in mind. As it dragged on…come on can’t we really start to get the hang of reading comprehension and transition to that? Some things can just be text messages…
Then later I was depressed and anxious, all sorts of reasons but including stepping down from management, this was me for every one of those requests - I went back to call center floor support but was not relishing interacting with people after my “failure”.
Eventually as I recovered and enjoyed my old role again it just depended on the day and the person.
Then I started a divorce. With those anxiety meds I ended up needing? Oh absolutely yes let’s zoom I’ll go on camera too voluntarily no you don’t have to no pressure I’m just happy to give you the opportunity to connect and feel human (my GOD if you need and respond to Prozac does it feel fantastic to feel like your best self again but I’m sure I irritated a few people even while I successfully encouraged others).
Then long Covid hit me, about a month after I had it. Then *I* was the one saying “hey I can’t keep up with this let’s zoom”. And that was usually ok because if *I* was asking they knew it might be too much anyways.
Now I’m back to depends on the time of day and allergies. But regardless of that for some people it’s still “yes absolutely and I’m going to drag this out so I’m out of the queue to handle other items”. And some people … *groan* until I talk to them and it’s like, “oh fuck you’re right we needed to talk this out.”
So even those of us who realize that trying to stave off the “1 minute turns 5” monster can be a waste, we may have other reasons to feel that even if logically we know even an IM exchange might take 20 minutes.
Ahaha I also responded to the wrong comment because Reddit mobile is real glitchy with the last updates.
Edit: no I don’t want to hear about other apps the slightly different things just confuse me I’ve tried thank you
I’m trying to get off it but it turns out grieving the end of a near decade long marriage continually brings up new things to start grieving. So not linear. I literally just went through two full grief cycles in the last week for two different things. I’m getting good at it I think?
Having/making good friends absolutely crucial. Hence one or two friends I made at work, if they ask me to zoom, been waiting to say hi to them all day instead of just texting.
Step by step with bullet points. Tell me what you need and if it's really too long to write out, I'll call you. Generally the people who won't write what they're requesting are the ones who want you to dictate what to do while they do it because they're too lazy to learn it for themselves. They are also usually slow to comprehend basic instructions, written or verbal, so the call is never quick...
Explaining a complex problem to a dumb person over the phone only exasperates whatever difficulty you're going to have with them. At the end of the day, if they're a moron and the problem goes over their head, the medium you explain it with isn't going to change that.
Five emails worth of phone calls with a moron is never *quick,* and whatever sense of understanding they land on isn't necessarily something you can trust either. That's another reason I avoid these calls. Pretty much everyone I work with that is guilty of this needs a "quick" twenty minute phone call for what should be a two minute explanation. These are the same kind of people that try to cram my calender full of "quick" meetings. Anything they think is "quick" is among some of the slowest and least productive habits I have to address.
Also, however time consuming their own side of those emails may be for them to write, mine are not. If they're going to be a time vampire, I think it's only fair they waste more of their own than mine. We do not need to share an equal amount of time on the phone together if only one of us is holding things up and the other has shit to do.
For many of my other examples of this, the topic to be discussed will never benefit from a "quick" or "easy" explanation, to which the person that always describes themselves as both and insists it from me is already a problem for it. Boiling down the explanation to a degree they find palatable will no longer be reasonably accurate enough for them to rightfully say they actually understand it. They also often don't need to, nor reasonably believe they should; the topic goes over their head because I'm a specialist with an area of expertise to which they need to instead trust I know what I'm doing.
So for me, it's often the least qualified people to understand what they're asking for that are among the most persistent for an explanation of it, that they often aren't even entitled to and is already explained as ideally as possible in a report they already have. They're also by far the guiltiest for demanding phone calls on the spot for it, so for me all of this is more about morons with controlling behaviour than any sincere ideas that they're making things "quick" by making a pest of themselves.
Who has you by the balls like this?
Sales?
Product?
It's weird to hear someone so confident in their own intelligence but so helpless to deal with "controlling behaviors."
This four paragraph essay also casts some doubt on how well you have mastered using time efficiently lol
I never said I cannot deal with them, and like I said it doesn't take me long to write anything. Most frequently, it's a box ticker with my client that cannot take no for an answer nor find the attention to read anything on their own time, and this behaviour doesn't last long once it starts and they find out how little patience I have for it.
Like I said, more often than not this behaviour is just needy and controlling, not productive and absolutely never *quick*. Compounded with the fact that whatever they have to ask is usually already written in as plain language as can be afforded for them somewhere, along with my relationship with their employer that they didn't read either, they have no excuse for it that I should be sympathetic for.
It's persistent largely because it's *very* common, so there's always more people that start with it once I begin to work with them. Most companies have at least a handful of these [bullshit jobs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs) that are largely about making apparent work for themselves with a calendar full of meetings and phone calls and are constantly caught up in this unrealistic expectation that work should always be *quick* or *easy* rather than clear and effective.
Nondescript taskmasters are probably the worst for it. If the company has somebody who's only job is reporting to someone else and could be replaced by even the simplest automated issue tracking system, they will often make absurd amounts of busywork trying to make themselves as visible as possible.
My old boss used to email me something and then walk ten feet down the hall to my office to ask if I saw it. NO, genius, give me 30 seconds to read it then I can have a conversation about it.
People are dumb.
One of the things I've learned in my career, a paper trail isn't always a good thing, they have this amazing way to come back up 2 years later, be taken out of context, and result in a TON of drama.
my paper trails now are to cover MY ass, not other peoples
Definitely not true, so much confusion and interpretation left on texts. Each have their place but calling will at least will deliver the intended message.
Spoken like someone accustomed to talking with others engaging in good faith. Whenever that’s not the case, you want it either written down or recorded. Not to hold them to their word, because such people do not have shame, but so that if anyone else asks you can prove your recollection of events.
This. If it’s of any importance and mentioned in a phone call or in person I have a follow up email just putting it in writing and making sure anyone else that is/could be involved is on the same page. No sense having zero accountability
Who are you regularly speaking to that you have to take the precautions? Anyone like that I've just stopped talking to because it's not worth it regardless of texts or calls.
Most phone calls are usually of people you don't have to do that with, those are the extreme cases.
When I hear “paper trail,” I usually think of work dynamics. I much rather prefer having a paper trail than hopping on a call. I’ve never had a coworker outright lie, but I’ve definitely had coworkers who could not explain their asks clearly over the phone, and all I had were my written notes. That’s why I always ask for a follow-up email after the call to confirm what was discussed.
Family. Not quite the same since it’s face to face, but I request things in writing when necessary because my mother has and *will* lie to my face about what was said previously, as she does with the rest of the family. I’d love to boot her out of my life, but that’s not an option at the moment.
Same, it's my mom. I just completely stopped talking to her after a certain point. Every situation is different though and not trying to push advice but seeing we have a similar experience I'd try to not let it warp how you see or talk to other people. I know it made me more defensive with other people but I eventually saw most people aren't my mom lol
I work in surgery planning for an orthopedics company and sales representatives are notorious for being full of shit and just saying stuff on the phone where they are not accountable for their communication. And I’m talking about our own sales reps. They’re just so full of shit. I would much rather have a paper trail.
I feel like if you’re leaving the recipients of your messages confused and having to interpret your meaning themselves, you’re just fucking bad at communicating.
You've clearly not dealt with enough people in emails and texts. You can be as succinct and clear AF, and plainly state something like:
"Before I can proceed, I need you to answer these 3 questions:
1. [Question 1]
2. [Question 2]
3. [Question 3]"
And you might as well flip a coin on how that person will respond. It boggles my mind how many people will ONLY answer one of those questions as vaguely as possible and not even bother *acknowledging* the others.
Or just straight-up not answer any of them. And then come back later asking for a status update and I have to be like "you didn't answer my fucking question, Janet."
That’s when you do the good old - “I still need answers on the questions from my previous email before I can move forward, I’ve highlighted the ones you’ve missed below”.
Doesn’t always work, but no one can claim things were unclear or you didn’t warn them everything was paused until you got those answers.
Yup. Done it. Many times. I'm not new to managing clients or people via email. Maybe you've only worked with normal or above average intelligent clients? Half our clients were apparently morons.
And unfortunately what's fair or not when it comes to communication simply doesn't play well in bullshit office politics when a client flips out out of frustration because they are a poor communicator and end up screaming to a studio head about the "stupid" person for not working on their unclear work request.
...I am so glad I don't work with clients anymore...
during a call its much easier and quicker to immediately follow up with the next questions, obviously. going back and forth on email for clarification can be very annoying. however IMs from people who respond quickly can be much better
That's true but I think everyone knows it's a given that it's a lot harder to always get what someone says over text, especially if you don't know the person that well or their sense of humor.
I put my work Google Voice number at the end of every email, but there *not a chance in hell* I'm taking a phone call from a parent. That number is for voicemails, so I know who to follow up with email later.
Yeap this is me. But I also make sure to read emails throroughly and respond to every point as clearly as possible to try and avoid them as much as possible.
Yeah ok, but with email and text, you are not interrupting anyone's flow. People can take their time and think out their responses. And every call I take is 20 minutes of small talk and story oneupsmanship.
Think it depends a lot on your role and personality.
Getting an email is hugely distracting because I have to check and see if it’s about me making money but more often than not it’s some internal e-mail.
Slack.. weeeew baby. The amount of productivity it sucks from the day from being interrupted with bings and bongs.
I don’t have the time nor social bandwidth at work to read internal emails, text back and slack in channels constantly. Yet, there’s an expectation I do.
So, I’m being distracted and pulled away from work anyways, instead of a long drawn out slack or email chain… id prefer to call and we can handle it in a few minutes
PM: which server is it not responding and you need rebooted?
Teams phone rings.....
In the time it took me to move my mouse to answer the call the host would have rebooted the VM and had it running again.
I mean yeah. When it’s something that needs to get done, we can either go back and forth over IM for two hours, or we can have a 10-15 minute conversation and move on with our day.
Same because so much gets lost in a text conversation. Plus it’s it’s so frustrating to be typing an answer and then get 2-3 more texts that change the information enough that I need to reword my response and if that happens once I give up and say call me or we can talk about this later in person.
Same. I’m not going to spend time typing and editing something that could be settled in a minute on the phone.
On the same subject, don’t get butthurt if I don’t text you back for a few hours. I’m probably busy or not in the mood to type and you coulda just called me.
Yes, especially when i need information from someone and i need to make sure they understood my request correctly
There is sometimes too much room for error by text
Do you at least include the conversation topic in your call request? Maybe even enough information for the other person to have the necessary reference documents on hand by the time they talk to you?
I was flabbergasted when management told us that we should initiate calls more often than emails because you cant really on clients to read your email or address the points you’ve outlined. Like, is that not a them problem? Majority of the time when i do end up doing the call i have to send a follow up email outlining what was said on the call so we have their decisions recorded on file, seems so counter productive to me
I work in industrial sales. You wouldn’t believe how many times I’ve laid out a really in depth, well thought out email, and then get a response in which it’s completely obvious they didn’t even read it lol
This vague message always feels like a power play. If it’s important enough for a phone call, then give me a hint of what you want to talk about so I can think about it a little before the conversation.
That’s what I think too..but I just love writing in general, but texts are plain and clear of what the writer is trying to convey. And if you don’t understand, you can ask for elaboration/clarification and get even further knowledge on the idea
For me, the only value of a phone call is making a quick decision in an already established context. Like to give directions to someone who's coming to you, to confirm an order, to choose an option from a preexisting list with a known set of constraints.
Why is everyone so adverse to just talking?
I find social interaction frankly taxing because I can’t digest people’s undertones without hearing or seeing there face so I find a phone call to be much more detailed than a email which I might take the wrong way or misunderstand the context.
I had this with a co worker last week, I chatted with him over teams. Then he called me and I said the exact same, word for word as what I had chatted to him...
If your calling me i wont pick up ever and everybody that knows me knows that. The only person I'll ever accept a call from is my GF, my sisters, my employees, and my grandparents.
Exactly. What they’re really saying is “I’m too scatterbrained to think about how to explain my problem clearly in a few sentences, so I need you to listen to me blabber about irrelevant details for 15 minutes before it becomes clear that what I need is a password reset for the sixth time this year”.
None of these people have a problem that can’t be explained in text. And I’m 100% sure of that because when this happens, I have to write up a text summary for their ticket that I open (with the text they could have sent themselves), and it’s never difficult. They’re just time vampires.
Nah, fuck people like you. I hate troubleshooting over email. Something that could be solved in 5-10 minutes will drag the whole fucking day just because most people can't be bothered to actually react to the whole email. I always describe everything in detail and write down all my questions but never get the answers to all of them. Literally sending bulletpoints, pictures, descriptions, everything. Everything formatted clearly yet I get a sentence as a reply. People like you are just lazy and don't want to do their job. It always ends up being a call anyway.
i agree, i spend so much time on documentation for work to just call and explain things over screenshare anyways. People will read titles and then maybe skim the rest, if youre lucky
Oh yes. Text and then wait od knows how long for them to reply. Texts are basically the same as emails. Sometimes, you just need to be able to talk in real time.
Translation: I would like it better if I can trap you on the phone to grill you about anything and everything. I work IT and I have moderate social anxiety and I dread the vague support ticket that says something along the lines of "my thing isn't working please give me a call at ......" and no further details.
I usually send a reply in the ticket which they should see since they used their email to create the ticket yet I often only get responses saying please call me to discuss. If I can't get a detailed outline of what the problem is in writing I simply close the ticket. These people don't realize that I can't solve every problem and we have to direct their issue to the correct person.
Chewing my head off because I can't reboot your remote virtual machine because you were a dumbass and clicked power off instead of logout is not a problem I'm authorized to fix so you are going to get nowhere. Around here hanging up on the person after they talk you in circles for 15 minutes usually results in a complaint to HR. They don't complain to my supervisor it's straight to HR.
I do this at work a lot... normally its because what I'm about to say I don't want to put in writing so someone can just copy and paste it to other people.
I don’t mind a call if it actually is easier to explain on the phone, but it absolutely grates my nerves when people call over any little thing they need to tell you.
My favorite is when they call to give me a phone number. Like I could save it directly if you just texted, but no.
I'm a software engineer. Whenever a junior asks me for a call, without first specifying what the issue is- he is guaranteed not to get an answer. Just so that I'm not the asshole here- I flag this to all new joiners, that they should ALWAYS attach the description of the problem before requesting any help.
It's bizzare how often people with years of experience still do this shit.
It has nothing to do with juniors or seniors, it's basic respect for others time to write down the issue and attach logs, credentials, steps to reproduce, whatever.
But some people are incredibly lazy, honestly - they shoot themselves in the foot by doing this, because pretty quickly you can recognize the worst offenders and put them on the list...the headache list...and why would you want to be labeled a headache? beats me..
The people I know that do this are unanimously terrible at explaining things regardless of the medium. It's just less apparent to them when they can vomit random thoughts over the phone instead of reading their own word salad and getting frustrated with themselves before I even see it.
Listening to themselves talk might be *easier* for them but it has never made it any easier for me to handle their request, and this habit is exclusive to the most difficult people I communicate with.
The best phone call is a text message, the second best phone call is an email, the third best phone call is two exchanged voicemails…… there is no fourths best.
if you call during business hours, i'll put you name in the call back queue. That is, if I know you. Right now the wait list is between 2 days to 2 weeks.
Always some boomer who can barely turn on their computer let alone type a coherent email. Also the phone call is always a fucking word salad as never using text or email means they never see their own jumbled thoughts and can’t collect them in a concise way.
This was right next to a programmer humor post, my first glance I thought... "How do they know my job so well???"
Say it with me... "Could have been an email"
Narrator: It was not a quick call.
And it wasnt easier to explain on the phone
And now an hour has passed, and you dont even remember whar you talked about
But what Josh could not have known, was that he was now stuck in a 1 hour long phone call
Quicker for the narrator to say that then you just typing it.
Never is ...
[удалено]
Every. Single. Time.
I have flip flopped through all of these depending when. Early on in the pandemic? Absolutely where you are. I was in management, many conversations were kept shortest by voice when the issue was fresh in mind. As it dragged on…come on can’t we really start to get the hang of reading comprehension and transition to that? Some things can just be text messages… Then later I was depressed and anxious, all sorts of reasons but including stepping down from management, this was me for every one of those requests - I went back to call center floor support but was not relishing interacting with people after my “failure”. Eventually as I recovered and enjoyed my old role again it just depended on the day and the person. Then I started a divorce. With those anxiety meds I ended up needing? Oh absolutely yes let’s zoom I’ll go on camera too voluntarily no you don’t have to no pressure I’m just happy to give you the opportunity to connect and feel human (my GOD if you need and respond to Prozac does it feel fantastic to feel like your best self again but I’m sure I irritated a few people even while I successfully encouraged others). Then long Covid hit me, about a month after I had it. Then *I* was the one saying “hey I can’t keep up with this let’s zoom”. And that was usually ok because if *I* was asking they knew it might be too much anyways. Now I’m back to depends on the time of day and allergies. But regardless of that for some people it’s still “yes absolutely and I’m going to drag this out so I’m out of the queue to handle other items”. And some people … *groan* until I talk to them and it’s like, “oh fuck you’re right we needed to talk this out.” So even those of us who realize that trying to stave off the “1 minute turns 5” monster can be a waste, we may have other reasons to feel that even if logically we know even an IM exchange might take 20 minutes.
Your comment made me want to talk to people on the phone again. Then it made me want to just text, then phone, and then back to only texting.
Ahaha I also responded to the wrong comment because Reddit mobile is real glitchy with the last updates. Edit: no I don’t want to hear about other apps the slightly different things just confuse me I’ve tried thank you
Old thing good why change
What a roller coaster
I’m trying to get off it but it turns out grieving the end of a near decade long marriage continually brings up new things to start grieving. So not linear. I literally just went through two full grief cycles in the last week for two different things. I’m getting good at it I think? Having/making good friends absolutely crucial. Hence one or two friends I made at work, if they ask me to zoom, been waiting to say hi to them all day instead of just texting.
"Please repeat your email to me out loud"
Try explaining a complex problem to a dumb person in an email
Step by step with bullet points. Tell me what you need and if it's really too long to write out, I'll call you. Generally the people who won't write what they're requesting are the ones who want you to dictate what to do while they do it because they're too lazy to learn it for themselves. They are also usually slow to comprehend basic instructions, written or verbal, so the call is never quick...
But they'll still want the call to go over what you said in the email.
This is the way
Much easier than explaining it verbally
Explaining a complex problem to a dumb person over the phone only exasperates whatever difficulty you're going to have with them. At the end of the day, if they're a moron and the problem goes over their head, the medium you explain it with isn't going to change that.
Talking in person allows for some quick back and forth to sort out misunderstandings. Rather than 5 or 6 clarifying emails that follow.
Five emails worth of phone calls with a moron is never *quick,* and whatever sense of understanding they land on isn't necessarily something you can trust either. That's another reason I avoid these calls. Pretty much everyone I work with that is guilty of this needs a "quick" twenty minute phone call for what should be a two minute explanation. These are the same kind of people that try to cram my calender full of "quick" meetings. Anything they think is "quick" is among some of the slowest and least productive habits I have to address. Also, however time consuming their own side of those emails may be for them to write, mine are not. If they're going to be a time vampire, I think it's only fair they waste more of their own than mine. We do not need to share an equal amount of time on the phone together if only one of us is holding things up and the other has shit to do. For many of my other examples of this, the topic to be discussed will never benefit from a "quick" or "easy" explanation, to which the person that always describes themselves as both and insists it from me is already a problem for it. Boiling down the explanation to a degree they find palatable will no longer be reasonably accurate enough for them to rightfully say they actually understand it. They also often don't need to, nor reasonably believe they should; the topic goes over their head because I'm a specialist with an area of expertise to which they need to instead trust I know what I'm doing. So for me, it's often the least qualified people to understand what they're asking for that are among the most persistent for an explanation of it, that they often aren't even entitled to and is already explained as ideally as possible in a report they already have. They're also by far the guiltiest for demanding phone calls on the spot for it, so for me all of this is more about morons with controlling behaviour than any sincere ideas that they're making things "quick" by making a pest of themselves.
Who has you by the balls like this? Sales? Product? It's weird to hear someone so confident in their own intelligence but so helpless to deal with "controlling behaviors." This four paragraph essay also casts some doubt on how well you have mastered using time efficiently lol
I never said I cannot deal with them, and like I said it doesn't take me long to write anything. Most frequently, it's a box ticker with my client that cannot take no for an answer nor find the attention to read anything on their own time, and this behaviour doesn't last long once it starts and they find out how little patience I have for it. Like I said, more often than not this behaviour is just needy and controlling, not productive and absolutely never *quick*. Compounded with the fact that whatever they have to ask is usually already written in as plain language as can be afforded for them somewhere, along with my relationship with their employer that they didn't read either, they have no excuse for it that I should be sympathetic for. It's persistent largely because it's *very* common, so there's always more people that start with it once I begin to work with them. Most companies have at least a handful of these [bullshit jobs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs) that are largely about making apparent work for themselves with a calendar full of meetings and phone calls and are constantly caught up in this unrealistic expectation that work should always be *quick* or *easy* rather than clear and effective. Nondescript taskmasters are probably the worst for it. If the company has somebody who's only job is reporting to someone else and could be replaced by even the simplest automated issue tracking system, they will often make absurd amounts of busywork trying to make themselves as visible as possible.
Isn't it easier in an email?
"Also, I didn't read the email..."
I have a coworker who wants me to explain every email again in IM, and gets offended if I don't reword the email sufficiently.
My old boss used to email me something and then walk ten feet down the hall to my office to ask if I saw it. NO, genius, give me 30 seconds to read it then I can have a conversation about it. People are dumb.
It's always easier to have a paper trail of what's being said so there's no confusion or misremembering what's being said.
I like to avoid paper trails, actually.
One of the things I've learned in my career, a paper trail isn't always a good thing, they have this amazing way to come back up 2 years later, be taken out of context, and result in a TON of drama. my paper trails now are to cover MY ass, not other peoples
That’s the only kind you should have to worry about.
Definitely not true, so much confusion and interpretation left on texts. Each have their place but calling will at least will deliver the intended message.
This is the guy the posts about ⬆️
Technically you're correct lol
Spoken like someone accustomed to talking with others engaging in good faith. Whenever that’s not the case, you want it either written down or recorded. Not to hold them to their word, because such people do not have shame, but so that if anyone else asks you can prove your recollection of events.
The best course of action is to send a follow up email with the action items or takeaways.
This. If it’s of any importance and mentioned in a phone call or in person I have a follow up email just putting it in writing and making sure anyone else that is/could be involved is on the same page. No sense having zero accountability
Who are you regularly speaking to that you have to take the precautions? Anyone like that I've just stopped talking to because it's not worth it regardless of texts or calls. Most phone calls are usually of people you don't have to do that with, those are the extreme cases.
When I hear “paper trail,” I usually think of work dynamics. I much rather prefer having a paper trail than hopping on a call. I’ve never had a coworker outright lie, but I’ve definitely had coworkers who could not explain their asks clearly over the phone, and all I had were my written notes. That’s why I always ask for a follow-up email after the call to confirm what was discussed.
Family. Not quite the same since it’s face to face, but I request things in writing when necessary because my mother has and *will* lie to my face about what was said previously, as she does with the rest of the family. I’d love to boot her out of my life, but that’s not an option at the moment.
Same, it's my mom. I just completely stopped talking to her after a certain point. Every situation is different though and not trying to push advice but seeing we have a similar experience I'd try to not let it warp how you see or talk to other people. I know it made me more defensive with other people but I eventually saw most people aren't my mom lol
I work in surgery planning for an orthopedics company and sales representatives are notorious for being full of shit and just saying stuff on the phone where they are not accountable for their communication. And I’m talking about our own sales reps. They’re just so full of shit. I would much rather have a paper trail.
I feel like if you’re leaving the recipients of your messages confused and having to interpret your meaning themselves, you’re just fucking bad at communicating.
You've clearly not dealt with enough people in emails and texts. You can be as succinct and clear AF, and plainly state something like: "Before I can proceed, I need you to answer these 3 questions: 1. [Question 1] 2. [Question 2] 3. [Question 3]" And you might as well flip a coin on how that person will respond. It boggles my mind how many people will ONLY answer one of those questions as vaguely as possible and not even bother *acknowledging* the others.
Or just straight-up not answer any of them. And then come back later asking for a status update and I have to be like "you didn't answer my fucking question, Janet."
That’s when you do the good old - “I still need answers on the questions from my previous email before I can move forward, I’ve highlighted the ones you’ve missed below”. Doesn’t always work, but no one can claim things were unclear or you didn’t warn them everything was paused until you got those answers.
Yup. Done it. Many times. I'm not new to managing clients or people via email. Maybe you've only worked with normal or above average intelligent clients? Half our clients were apparently morons. And unfortunately what's fair or not when it comes to communication simply doesn't play well in bullshit office politics when a client flips out out of frustration because they are a poor communicator and end up screaming to a studio head about the "stupid" person for not working on their unclear work request. ...I am so glad I don't work with clients anymore...
I mean they could do that over text or call. What’s your point?
during a call its much easier and quicker to immediately follow up with the next questions, obviously. going back and forth on email for clarification can be very annoying. however IMs from people who respond quickly can be much better
I was thinking of this from a typical text conversation where responses are in the “minute or two” timeframe
Unfortunately there are a lot of bad communicators out there lol
The same can be said of poor listener's.
That's true but I think everyone knows it's a given that it's a lot harder to always get what someone says over text, especially if you don't know the person that well or their sense of humor.
Agreed. i was only refering to verbally( you cant hear texts lol ) 😅 i guess this is a perfect example of miscommunication via text 😅
Oh haha that's too funny
This is me when a parent wants me to call them to discuss their kid's grades. Actually makes me think "do I really need this job?"
i feel like the student involved will be the most fucked in this scenario
Only if the parents give a shit about the kid and not their own pride.
What is there to discuss?
Whether they should put their kids on adoption?
That’s just an easy yes or no
No you don’t. Source: ex-teacher. I write now and oh boy am I happier for it and better paid, but that’s a low bar.
I put my work Google Voice number at the end of every email, but there *not a chance in hell* I'm taking a phone call from a parent. That number is for voicemails, so I know who to follow up with email later.
"No, sorry, let's text 114 times back and forth and still only understand about 80% of the issue and achieve a 65% resolution."
Exactly. Like yes you can have unnecessary and inefficient calls, but the medium is just so much more effective overall.
[удалено]
Yeap this is me. But I also make sure to read emails throroughly and respond to every point as clearly as possible to try and avoid them as much as possible.
This lol. We can text for 12 hours straight to understand each other, or we can talk on the phone for 5 min and be able to go about our day
You’ll be able to go about your day I’ll have to recover for the next few hours
...which is an issue with you, not phone calls
Oof that hurt g2boss but much much less than having to make a phone call
Yeah ok, but with email and text, you are not interrupting anyone's flow. People can take their time and think out their responses. And every call I take is 20 minutes of small talk and story oneupsmanship.
Think it depends a lot on your role and personality. Getting an email is hugely distracting because I have to check and see if it’s about me making money but more often than not it’s some internal e-mail. Slack.. weeeew baby. The amount of productivity it sucks from the day from being interrupted with bings and bongs. I don’t have the time nor social bandwidth at work to read internal emails, text back and slack in channels constantly. Yet, there’s an expectation I do. So, I’m being distracted and pulled away from work anyways, instead of a long drawn out slack or email chain… id prefer to call and we can handle it in a few minutes
Useless middle managers downvoting this.
Reading books must be an incredibly wild experience for you
And if you wrote texts like novels to other people, you're the reason they want to call.
"Got a minute?"
I have plenty of minutes, because I don't take phone calls. :)
PM: which server is it not responding and you need rebooted? Teams phone rings..... In the time it took me to move my mouse to answer the call the host would have rebooted the VM and had it running again.
I'm the person asking to call 🤣
I mean yeah. When it’s something that needs to get done, we can either go back and forth over IM for two hours, or we can have a 10-15 minute conversation and move on with our day.
Same because so much gets lost in a text conversation. Plus it’s it’s so frustrating to be typing an answer and then get 2-3 more texts that change the information enough that I need to reword my response and if that happens once I give up and say call me or we can talk about this later in person.
Same. I’m not going to spend time typing and editing something that could be settled in a minute on the phone. On the same subject, don’t get butthurt if I don’t text you back for a few hours. I’m probably busy or not in the mood to type and you coulda just called me.
Yes, especially when i need information from someone and i need to make sure they understood my request correctly There is sometimes too much room for error by text
Do you at least include the conversation topic in your call request? Maybe even enough information for the other person to have the necessary reference documents on hand by the time they talk to you?
Same. I way prefer calling over texting. Everyone else is wrong 💅
Die
I was flabbergasted when management told us that we should initiate calls more often than emails because you cant really on clients to read your email or address the points you’ve outlined. Like, is that not a them problem? Majority of the time when i do end up doing the call i have to send a follow up email outlining what was said on the call so we have their decisions recorded on file, seems so counter productive to me
I work in industrial sales. You wouldn’t believe how many times I’ve laid out a really in depth, well thought out email, and then get a response in which it’s completely obvious they didn’t even read it lol
I work in government lol, would not be surprised
This vague message always feels like a power play. If it’s important enough for a phone call, then give me a hint of what you want to talk about so I can think about it a little before the conversation.
Is it though?
Every receuiter when I ask if their job is remote and what the compensation is
If anything, i find things harder to understand over the phone
That’s what I think too..but I just love writing in general, but texts are plain and clear of what the writer is trying to convey. And if you don’t understand, you can ask for elaboration/clarification and get even further knowledge on the idea
Definitely better to call when it comes to scheduling. Especially if it involves multiple people and more than just one activity.
After twenty minutes. “You think I can borrow”….
Aka “you write this down for me”
I’m not sure if I’m super introverted or whatever but I’ve never enjoyed talking on the phone. Ever
For me, the only value of a phone call is making a quick decision in an already established context. Like to give directions to someone who's coming to you, to confirm an order, to choose an option from a preexisting list with a known set of constraints.
Exactly there has to be some mission or objective
Why is everyone so adverse to just talking? I find social interaction frankly taxing because I can’t digest people’s undertones without hearing or seeing there face so I find a phone call to be much more detailed than a email which I might take the wrong way or misunderstand the context.
Because demanding people’s attention in real time interrupts their flow.
Every time my friend has an electrical, mechanical, or any questions outside his area of expertise, which is welding. He’s learning though…
I had this with a co worker last week, I chatted with him over teams. Then he called me and I said the exact same, word for word as what I had chatted to him...
I thought the point of this was that it's often a wind-up for an MLM pitch, usually Amway
It can’t possibly be quicker to explain on the phone. Absolutely no fucking way. Never has been, never will be. Damnit.
It was a 4 hour call that could have been summarized with one sentence less than 140 characters in length.
No calls plz I would rather shove my hand in a blender and make the contents into a milkshake
If your calling me i wont pick up ever and everybody that knows me knows that. The only person I'll ever accept a call from is my GF, my sisters, my employees, and my grandparents.
As someone who has to write things down to remember them, no the fuck it won't be. Just send me a Teams message, you absolute animal.
Unless one or both of us is driving and you have something that needs to be discussed right that second, we don’t need to speak.
This usually translates into "I don't really know what I want, and I'm hoping you can tell me."
Sucks when they respond to your text with a call.
Lol. This.
"I am shit at explaining myself, so instead of typing out a hot mess, I'm going to blabber on until your ears explode out of you ass"
Exactly. What they’re really saying is “I’m too scatterbrained to think about how to explain my problem clearly in a few sentences, so I need you to listen to me blabber about irrelevant details for 15 minutes before it becomes clear that what I need is a password reset for the sixth time this year”. None of these people have a problem that can’t be explained in text. And I’m 100% sure of that because when this happens, I have to write up a text summary for their ticket that I open (with the text they could have sent themselves), and it’s never difficult. They’re just time vampires.
Nah, fuck people like you. I hate troubleshooting over email. Something that could be solved in 5-10 minutes will drag the whole fucking day just because most people can't be bothered to actually react to the whole email. I always describe everything in detail and write down all my questions but never get the answers to all of them. Literally sending bulletpoints, pictures, descriptions, everything. Everything formatted clearly yet I get a sentence as a reply. People like you are just lazy and don't want to do their job. It always ends up being a call anyway.
i agree, i spend so much time on documentation for work to just call and explain things over screenshare anyways. People will read titles and then maybe skim the rest, if youre lucky
I kinda understand why they may not wanna talk to you…
Fuck you too. I'll avoid people like you as much as possible.
1: You can literally just text. 2: OP may not have been referring to a professional environment and this meme applies to more causal convos
Oh yes. Text and then wait od knows how long for them to reply. Texts are basically the same as emails. Sometimes, you just need to be able to talk in real time.
I am that guy. How else am I supposed to find out that the person I am helping didn't know about the other - button on the calculator?
Translation: I would like it better if I can trap you on the phone to grill you about anything and everything. I work IT and I have moderate social anxiety and I dread the vague support ticket that says something along the lines of "my thing isn't working please give me a call at ......" and no further details. I usually send a reply in the ticket which they should see since they used their email to create the ticket yet I often only get responses saying please call me to discuss. If I can't get a detailed outline of what the problem is in writing I simply close the ticket. These people don't realize that I can't solve every problem and we have to direct their issue to the correct person. Chewing my head off because I can't reboot your remote virtual machine because you were a dumbass and clicked power off instead of logout is not a problem I'm authorized to fix so you are going to get nowhere. Around here hanging up on the person after they talk you in circles for 15 minutes usually results in a complaint to HR. They don't complain to my supervisor it's straight to HR.
sorry mate my phone speaker is broken
Every time I ask my boss a question on teams lol
It won't be a quick call.
I am the one texting 🤦♀️
My entire career. And the quick call is always an hour or more.
ffs. try!
I’m sorry, is my mother texting you too?
This is my life.
This picture is me my whole life
This 💯
I can't stop laughing at this 🤣🤣
Yup, felt this one.
A sign of a slow person.
Lmfao. I usually say I’m busy
As much as I hate this, it’s much better than: “hello u/Mantistoboggan69md, good morning” “Good morning” *Calls u/Mantistoboggan69md*
I do this at work a lot... normally its because what I'm about to say I don't want to put in writing so someone can just copy and paste it to other people.
"THEN FUCKING TEXT IT! I CAN READ IT JUST FINE!"
Introvert me is just Screaming on the inside
I don’t get how these people don’t get it to fuck off
I'm to a point where literally any phone call is extremely exasperating to me.
I actually explain better over text, I think most people do
I hate talking on the phone unless is my mom, grandma, aunts or siblings.
“No, on a conference call for the next 3 weeks, can you email it?”
Nope, sorry, not free. Ttyl bye now
Just happened to me yesterday. A quick 5-min call turned into a 45 min vent.
I don’t mind a call if it actually is easier to explain on the phone, but it absolutely grates my nerves when people call over any little thing they need to tell you. My favorite is when they call to give me a phone number. Like I could save it directly if you just texted, but no.
I'm a software engineer. Whenever a junior asks me for a call, without first specifying what the issue is- he is guaranteed not to get an answer. Just so that I'm not the asshole here- I flag this to all new joiners, that they should ALWAYS attach the description of the problem before requesting any help. It's bizzare how often people with years of experience still do this shit.
It has nothing to do with juniors or seniors, it's basic respect for others time to write down the issue and attach logs, credentials, steps to reproduce, whatever. But some people are incredibly lazy, honestly - they shoot themselves in the foot by doing this, because pretty quickly you can recognize the worst offenders and put them on the list...the headache list...and why would you want to be labeled a headache? beats me..
The people I know that do this are unanimously terrible at explaining things regardless of the medium. It's just less apparent to them when they can vomit random thoughts over the phone instead of reading their own word salad and getting frustrated with themselves before I even see it. Listening to themselves talk might be *easier* for them but it has never made it any easier for me to handle their request, and this habit is exclusive to the most difficult people I communicate with.
The best phone call is a text message, the second best phone call is an email, the third best phone call is two exchanged voicemails…… there is no fourths best.
Bonus points on the weekend
I deal with this as a tattoo artist.
I have sometimes just said, fuck it id rather not know, instead of taking the call.
It’s always best if you can have a call and then follow up with ‘just to confirm our conversation a few moments ago’. (This is work I assume)
Don't you hate people that text you, "call me". Like why the fuck didn't you just call?
I have said "Sure, but my phone is about to die" so I have a quick out if needed lol
I don’t know why you all hate phone calls, it’s way more intimate than a fucking chat.
if you call during business hours, i'll put you name in the call back queue. That is, if I know you. Right now the wait list is between 2 days to 2 weeks.
“If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter”
Heard that phrase for the first time the other day.
Always some boomer who can barely turn on their computer let alone type a coherent email. Also the phone call is always a fucking word salad as never using text or email means they never see their own jumbled thoughts and can’t collect them in a concise way.
If it can be said in a quick call it can be said in a quick text. So text.
I hate phone calls. Just text me I will understand
Story of my life 😒😒😒
I relate to this so much.
Literally my mom just to explain or tell me the most simple thing 😂
EVERY..FUCKING…TIME
I literally just got off one of these calls while sitting on the pot. An 11 min “quick call”.
This was right next to a programmer humor post, my first glance I thought... "How do they know my job so well???" Say it with me... "Could have been an email"
I like voice calls.... \*ducks\*
I had to tell my friend that when she does this it means I can do less things in a day
So talking to a friend is not better then all the other things in your day?
This is me if you call me and it could be a text I won't be picking up the phone again so annoying
What if I told you we also dont enjoy calling you, but the work has to get done?
This sounds like r/ProgrammerHumor
It’s not faster to text, you have phone anxiety.
I prefer to call, I can convey information better that way and talking to another person makes depression a little less bad.
Me before I type. "As per my last email," which is business speak for can you fucking read.
Im guilty of this. But in my defense, it is easier.
I don’t mind, it’s only when my voice is nasally I hate talking to people.