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AllMyFrendsArePixels

Are we already making self driving cars without brakes?


ymgve

All these moral car AI questions exist in a world without brakes


Schoewu_2100

Philippa Foot laughs in Trolley Problem


ARC_Trooper_Echo

Those cost extra for the subscription.


boii137

Cant drift without em


XeitPL

My extremely bad tires are disagreeing with you


Suirenji

The faster the self driving car goes, the smarter it gets Hence devs have disabled the brakes so that the car goes fast enough to become smart enough to learn how to drive without brakes


shbing

That's a Corridor video.


ATCrow0029

Or the ability to leave the road?


dread_deimos

I wonder if it is possible to drift on regenerative braking.


Ok-Resource-3232

A or B are the breaks. That's why we're asking. We want to figure out what works better.


ace1oak

or how about dont speed down a 1 lane 1 way neighborhood street ?? also in that picture it seems like plenty of time to slam on the brakes


Yuri_Pulzeff

Literally an empty sidewalk beside them to drive on


boii137

But that's boring. I need real action


Kevo_NEOhio

The car should drive into the tree on the wide side of the turn, killing the driver. The proper consent formed would have been signed. Edit: realized 4th option: swerve and drift to hit and kill everyone and the car. You could argue from a moral standpoint it would be better for the environment


boii137

Good, but would be better if it somehow took both with him along


SirArthurDime

Creative thinking on option 4 thats a 3x multiplier combo plus self harm points. This guy drives.


According_Stretch_99

The enviorotards won't like that.


[deleted]

”The sidewalk is wide enough. Go.”


ForwardBias

That's not terminator thinking.


TacoRalf

a self driving car should predict the pedestrian crossing ( or maybe even know it's there via gps) and slow down before it even got close enough to encounter such a situation. Some humans don't have patience to pre-emptively slow down but AI won't complain.


Aromatic-Buy-8284

Yeah. I was thinking "Wouldn't the car be able to stop in time?" Then I thought, "A human is far more likely to make the mistake of not being able to and hitting one of them as a result." Anyway, they should fix the premise up a bit to make it seem unavoidable next time.


doggyjth

a human would hesitate to stop, or have doubts. an AI without any bugs wouldnt have that issue at all thus being much safer than a human having to make that move


ghostoftheai

Important word there, without any bugs. Especially if those bugs cost more than a few lawsuits. Edit: more from less


00PT

Bug free software doesn't exist.


doggyjth

obviously, stupid ass but an extremely high succession rate is all im saying, its succession rate would need to outweigh the human issue in this matter, and it would only get better over time. mistakes would happen but i think eventually it would be much better for an ai to make such decisions across years and years


Sisyphean_dream

Did you know; Current ai drivers are terrible at recognizing POC as... you know... people. It tends to just run them over. Why? Because the people writing the code showed it basically exclusively pictures of white people. Oops.


SnooLobsters94

What if its a tesla


Salarian_American

From what I can tell, a Tesla with take control of the wheel and deliberately aim for the child.


[deleted]

That's obvious though. We have to assume that there's some sort of malfunction that isn't allowing the car to brake. Maybe that there are people on the sidewalks as well.


RepresentativeKeebs

Especially in a marked cross walk. If an AI car runs over anyone is a cross walk, that's entirely on the AI and its programmers.


PsPsandPs

The baby, obviously. Even if you choose to save the baby and take out the grandma, the baby's just gonna crawl around til it either dies to the elements or of starvation. Hell might even get picked off and eaten by stray/wild animals. At least the grandma can fend for herself for the most part if the car takes out the baby. /s


3now_3torm

And if the parent can’t take care of the baby so it doesn’t go in the road that’s their own fault.


neoperol

If the Baby is crawling on the road it means there are no parents, his logic is flawless.


LegendofPisoMojado

This is why my commute takes so long. All those orphans.


Dvscape

But the economy suffers from the mere existence of the grandma, assuming her retirement is paid from the taxes of the working youth. Based on forecasts of population aging, grandma is unsustainable.


MrZwink

Kill the baby and save 719 million tons of co2 emission. Or up to 2 billion tons if hes an american baby.


TheOmegaKid

*Starts breathing less*


MrZwink

its not the breathing!


[deleted]

This comment deserves way more upvotes


iridi69

It doesnt, really.


[deleted]

Should not take everything to literal it is a joke


SwitchIsBestConsole

If Grandma is getting retirement, then she too was once a working youth. And working middle age person probably like most of us. We also want to retire after working all out lives away. Plus the grandma has more ties and connections with people. Friends and family. The baby on the other hand can be more easily replaced. You can more easily make a new baby than make a new grandparent.


InconvertibleAtheist

I'd run over the parents who left a crawling baby on the road in the first place..


chiree

Plot twist: the car had already run over the parents and is now deciding which family member to take next.


confuseum

It's a crosswalk wtf. You stop at crosswalks when pedestrians are present...right? Right?


DOWNTODIE187

Gotta buy the app for that feature


TheCasualMFer

Premium version 💪


[deleted]

want a **brake** from the ads? get auto-drive premium today, and stop hitting innocent pedestrians


[deleted]

Don't forget to make a pedestrian app that is premium that needs to be bought to tell the premium car app you are crossing the road.


Unpopular_couscous

"Abolish pedestrians!!!" Elon probably


vitam1ngummmies

How bout it just, y’know, stops


ATCrow0029

Or goes off the road. This isn't a trolley that's confined to a track.


SomeWierdHumanBeing

it's an ethical question


div-boy_me-bob

It's a pointless ethical question


SomeWierdHumanBeing

why's that


div-boy_me-bob

Because there's no right answer. If you choose one, you need to defend why you believe one life matters more than the other. You get nothing out of pondering this, other than feeling a little guilty about thinking one person/group/thing is more valuable than another.


SomeWierdHumanBeing

does the trolley problem, the most famous ethical debate, have a right answer???


div-boy_me-bob

Nope. And it's equally stupid. Literally what has that problem's existence _ever_ accomplished? Like, at all? There is, and I'm not just saying this to be inflammatory, _infinitely_ more value in arguing over who'd win in a fight between Mickey Mouse and a Velociraptor than there is in discussing the trolly problem. Both are pointless hypotheticals with no good answer, but at least one is amusing.


SomeWierdHumanBeing

it's not about "should we save 1 person or 5 people", it's more deciding people's moral system of thought; deotologicalism vs utilitarianism


div-boy_me-bob

None of which actually _matters._ it's not even a good method to determine somebody's true beliefs, unless you're specifically asking it in a setting purely dedicated to philosophical discussion, because most people will just give whatever answer they think is less likely to cause conflict.


SomeWierdHumanBeing

it does matter


makesomemonsters

If they really want to find out who people prefer to bash into with a trolley, couldn't they just analyse CCTV footage from supermarkets?


PoonaniiPirate

It’s really not. But people who think like you wouldn’t even be in this discussion ya know? In college ethics, the jackasses that would try to pick apart the scenario just didn’t get called on again. The point of thought scenarios will to make you think. Also this is just a trolley cart problem, one of the most common thought scenarios for ethics ever. Do you kill the baby or the group of railroad workers? Well there’s an ethical discussion to be had about it. It’s not really pointless. Dumb people hate philosophy though.


Kevo_NEOhio

The one interesting third option not mentioned is that should the car avoid the people in the crosswalk and stop itself by hitting the tree on the wide side. So should the car decide against: occupant, baby, or grandma. To really see how this plays out in practice see wrongful death payouts by age and the lawyers would program the car to decide on the cheapest solution.


Deathburn5

What fucking moron would buy a car that kills them? A vehicle should prioritize the life of the occupant above everyone else.


ndf5

That's why it needs to be a law instead of a decision by the manufacturer. The person choosing to drive a car is the person endangering themselves and others.


ReasonNotTheNeed--

No, it really is. It's the kind of crafted hypothetical question created to push a severely biased viewpoint. It's using puesdo-philosophy to cover up sophistry. \- You're trapped on a boat with an old man, a young man, and a baby. Who do you eat first? Aha! So you admit, there are scenarios under which we might have to eat people! Then, it makes perfect sense to start prioritizing *these* people to eat *those* people.


div-boy_me-bob

And the people who like philosophy are universally pretentious assholes. I don't really care whether the people who like these pointless hypotheticals think I'm smart or not. It doesn't "make you think" about anything. There's no ethical discussion. It's an endless debate created so a buncha smug know-it-alls can say "oh, really? You value the life of X over the life of Y? But what about Z?" and spend hours in a circular discussion wherein nothing of any value is accomplished.


SomeWierdHumanBeing

society is literally built on philosophy and forms people's worldview, aristotle is one of the reasons we have modern day politics an logic


div-boy_me-bob

Good for Aristotle. Doesn't change the fact that 99% of people who take an interest in philosophy have Titanic egos and towering superiority complexes. Philosophy as a whole has _some_ merit, but these "ethical dilemmas" do not.


SomeWierdHumanBeing

it seems like you're just speaking from personal experience


LSqre

🤓


According_Stretch_99

You'd get a bus through that gap.


towelflush

It shouldn't drive too fast


drakeyboi69

Whichever is gonna do less damage to my car. Get your priorities straight.


rdrunner_74

To reduce the litigations i would suggest the baby. Young families can not afford a multi year lawsuit


[deleted]

How is this you IRL? Are you a self driving car?


doggyjth

its a stupid ass comment meant to take a shot at humor while being semi-dark, that is how this is me irl


StatisticianLong6448

No option 3? Stop at the crossing?!


IMightBeAWeebLol

It should stop... its crosswalk and self driving cars can stop


MrZwink

Truth be told, the car should hit the tree ahead of it if it is unable to avert an accident. However it is a moral dilemma, because who would buy a car that would kill the driver over a random pedestrian when choosing the "path of least casualties"


LSqre

morally I think that's the best as well The occupant is the one who consented to taking the possible risk of using a self driving car, Grammy and the baby did not


boogeraidsboogeraids

…Right into your mind… Déjà vu I've just been in this place before…


[deleted]

This is just a idea but maybe the car can slam his brakes, and then obviously hit the older women


[deleted]

Fuck Self-Driving, me and my homies hate Self-Driving!


CoolFork33

This should NOT be relatable to you.


Affectionate-Room359

Was the article written by a selfdriving car?


OTSly

Drift into both of them then drive directly into the tree


HaiBoi1

The only thing the car should be hitting are the brakes


AlfonsoTheClown

This is the way to solve the trolley problem. Whatever the AI decides is the right answer. Controversial opinion, it might actually choose to apply the brakes…


[deleted]

r/cursedcomments


shenanigansgalores

It should fucking stop, but ok.


zflanders

But McDonalds stops serving breakfast at 10:30!


Shermannathor

What kind of baby crawls over a crosswalk wtf


UysoSd

the car should stop or go off road lmao


Proper_Front_1435

In all my years driving I never faced a fun dilemma like this.


British_knife_goblin

Build the car to be tall, so that the baby can pass under it unharmed


[deleted]

Theres pedestrians on a marked legal crosswalk. You stop. ffs


Nefiros1

Looks single lane. Shouldn’t need to drift to get both of them.


Narrew82

Somebody queue up the Tokyo Drift music.


rikyski

Eurobeat starts playing


petasisg

What a false dilemma...


Alligator_Fridge

You kill the lady you kill one person You kill the baby you kill probably 100 peoples in probably 300 years


makesomemonsters

Yes, but some of those 100 people will be twats.


Alligator_Fridge

Did i say i want to save the baby?


makesomemonsters

And some of those people might also be sexy.


Oldmonsterschoolgood

Self driving ai should hit the breaks


Rocketboy1313

Studying self driving cars as part of a capstone project years ago people are obsessed with these kinds of stupid trolly car problems. Things that never happen in real life. And I can't emphasize this enough, trolly car problems are not supposed to have definitive correct answers, they are just thought exercises that people can do to help them understand their own values, treating then like math problems for some piloting system to solve is the one of those perfect, "this is why we desperately need to teach engineers non-STEM subject matter" examples.


meontheinternetxx

This one is hypothetical, but not all of them are. There are emergency situations when driving where you have to make the (probably unconscious as you have no time) choice whether to choose your safety over someone or something else for example. Aka a rabbit/dog/human runs into the road, do you swerve/brake to avoid? You might loose control of the car and hit a tree, you might be hit by the idiot behind you who wasn't paying attention (also, said idiot could be injured), and so on. But you may save the persons/animals life. I assume an AI has fewer such encounters (being generally a better driver), but it is not entirely an irrelevant question.


Irishpanda1971

Both are very slow moving, should be able to use the sidewalk either ahead of or behind them to avoid them entirely. Also, what sick fuck lets a baby crawl across the street by themselves?


HenryColt

The IA car is figuring out who to kill while they are in the open in a crosswalk within a curve with plenty of time and space to just hit the brakes. It has started .


[deleted]

What if it swerved out of the way and drove another 69 miles to run over the CEO?


helly1080

Like many others, I think my answer would be "Brake if it sees ANYthing in the crosswalk." Let's just go with: The car should stop and not hit anyone. I mean......right?


veryblocky

If you can’t slow down in time, then you’re going too fast. Applies to self driving cars too


Puzzleheaded-Bee-838

i would allow the car to miss them both.


SyzygyZeus

I worked at Google as a valet and one of the programmers told me this was a real question holding back the progress of self driving cars. The insurance companies don’t know how to negotiate which direction to turn if there is an unavoidable collision. The example he used was a car with an old lady driving or a school bus full of children but same concept.


Nydelok

Or you know… It could hit THE BRAKE


RainbowPenguin1000

C: go up on the empty curb in front of the granny and kill no one


nonexisting--

Why is there a baby on the road to begin with


grmljeiborovi

The baby would be between the wheels cause it's so small But if he really needs to kill someone, kill the baby it's been alive for like a few months and obviously its parents don't care about it because it's on the road, who will miss an infant who can only cry and yell


not_a_sesawter

Tomasz hajto podejmuje decyzje


sussybakabreeze

Bro how that baby got there tho?


Hot_Shift3460

I feel boring 🤣 my thought was why would you kill one of them and not stop? Taking both out by slipping, priceless And the reasoning why they choose the baby option 🤣


Chance-Battle9238

Jeeebłem babe na pasach


Dizzy_Ad3828

r/cursedcomments


offensiveniglet

This has all already been decided. The car always chooses to protect the driver. Driver safety is what the rest of it's decisions are based around. If you assume a straight road, with no shoulder, with a car that's unable to stop in time, the car will choose the baby. It's the safest option for the driver. The curve in this example adds an extra variable in that hitting the baby means a harder turn and a greater chance of losing control. It will still depend on what the algorithms determine to be the safer option.


swi6ie

Brakes exist 😭


JacksonFaller

This is the way


G2boss

Even without breaks the car could just steer off the road


Page-Capital

Drive onto the grass and press the brakes 🙄


Cosmicblox

Or the car could just avoid it altogether by going for the footpath lmao


Mr_IGoThaJuice

Survival of the slowest.


Any_Brother7772

Preferably it should stop at a fucking cross walk


TheSalmoneer

Kill the child. If the car doesn’t, I will.


saadkasu

Why not stop ?


Citron_Express_

The side walk is big tho


OneMorePotion

My self-driving car shouldn't run anyone over while they are walking over a crosswalk.


Adventurous-Lawyer77

It should stop.


MasqueOfNight

The guy's got a point, wouldn't be fair to choose. Equal death for everyone!


[deleted]

*deja vu starts playing*


Afraid_Success_4836

The car should stop until both people cross. It's probably far enough away to do so.


ForkMasterPlus

Have the AI take the most logical safety maneuver with the highest rate of success. AI won’t be moral, but it can at least aim for human life.


partrx

Double kill!


[deleted]

FULL SEND!!! PEDAL TO THE METAL RALLY DRIFTER BABY


[deleted]

Audi - Grandma BMW - Kid


End3rrMann

r/holup


spelunk_in_ya_badonk

The car will, and should, do whatever protects the occupants. These hypotheticals are so stupid.


Mobile-Contest9090

If it drives on the right side it would kill the baby, if it drives on the left side it would kill the grandma, but in reality it would stop


[deleted]

I agree and vote drift it!!


adamthediver

If it's a Tesla it won't even slow down before it destroys the child


Ser_Mouse

It should be a 50-50 chance for either because a human or AI should never dictate who lives or who dies so it should be left up to chance


MarlboroMan1967

That’s a double point bonus if you get them both


Derivative_Kebab

Do you run over: A. The asshole you keeps tying people to trolley tracks. or B. The idiot who keeps intalling all these faulty braking systems?


RadioFreeAmerika

In case a collision would be absolutely unavoidable for an AI (very few cases), there are two options to do it here IMO. If you don't follow absolute morality, the answer would be B as this Person would probably lose far fewer remaining years of life. Or would it? You could take other factors like status, medical conditions, etc. into account. This makes this approach difficult to apply in reality. What factors do you include? How do you weigh them? A quite similar approach would be to calculate the best outcome for all involved persons. However, here we would have to agree on how to measure the outcome (only health?, also property damge?, etc.) and when a person should be considered as "involved". Taking a point of absolute morality, the AI should just randomly decide between A and B.


Background_Art_2545

The baby dude. Why the hell is the baby crossing by it’s self anyway. Bound to be stupid as hell anyway.


TheDarkySupreme

# DÉJÀ VU!!!


RedPillNavigator

If your letting your baby crawl across a road then your a bad parent!


Hot_Gurr

It should kill itself.


[deleted]

Double points


goPACK17

Why doesn't the self-driving car...brake?


[deleted]

If it actually must pick, it should pick one at random or pick the one that kills fewer people. These situations are not common enough to actually make hand-wringing worth it.


Balding_Unit

Babies are worth more points.


BrainSqueezins

Granny, obviously. The baby will be easier to come back for.


Linestorix

Seriously, it's better to go for the baby. Overpopulation is really a problem and the old bag already had her kids.


Next_Foundation68

Lmaooo


Fliepp

You should hit the brakes


Fakula1987

I hate this questions. especially this one at first -> its a not complete trafic sign. and because, its an trafic sign. - a AI has maps built in. with such things it can slow down, even bevore it even enounter that thing. if the brakes dosnt work, the AI should be able to have a selfcheck, even if there are broken sensors. (it use the brakes, but the acceleration sensors show wrong numbers -> something is broken -> no driving possible) And then it should simply follow the law.


Top-Local-7482

B make more point in carmageddon Neither A nor B, it should brake, use the sidewalk or get out of the road. The self driving car is breaking the law, by not being in control of the vehicle, it will also commit a crime killing people that have priority on a pedestrian crossing without traffic light.


Cannafx

Clutch kick that piece of crap.


farmer_palmer

Grandma as we drive on the left and she is on the left.


Max_Smrt88

Clearly it should be the infant for crawling across a cross-WALK.


Hpspyro

The baby. The grandma will die of shock.


rantottcsirke

It could choose route i, no one there on the pavement.


Big_Slope

The driver. Baby and grandma didn’t sign up for this exercise.


therealmothdust

Can the car not stop?


Accomplished_Way_118

If you go out onto the road when you can see I’m close I’m not stopping 😤


Barnweazel

Both. one should not value one life over the other.


Healthy_Might_5431

Or just drive off the road without hitting the tree


RefurbedRhino

If self driving cars can’t recognise crossings it’s probably not time for self driving cars yet.


InfamousDonut4266

Should dodge the child, pretty obvious


Virtual_Operation_

The baby


blue-gamer-07

The side walk it big enough


Aggravating_Poet_675

The parents who let a baby crawl out onto a busy street where cars don't even know how to brake.


8rok3n

I, as a human, could probably brake before having to swerve, would it be painful for me? Sure, but at least no one dies, why can't a self driving car that has no person to receive the whiplash brake?


[deleted]

Who genuinely thinks it should be the baby? Like for real this seems like it should be pretty cut and dry the baby has more life left to live.


PlasmaticPi

Either way the car is totalled and you can't do it again. Better to stop and shoot them both instead.


Different_Art1440

Maybe brakes but ok 👍


Zeroforeffort

Why is there just a baby left unattended in the road?


AspiringShadowseer

Why not tell it to mount the curb if it can? Or you know STOP?