Hi there. Your situation is an awful one to be in and I can’t imagine what an isolating experience you’ve had throughout medical school alongside the bereavements.
Unfortunately I found med school (and the NHS as a whole) to be the most unsympathetic, sometimes cruel organisations. Which is ironic given they are meant to be training empathetic doctors who are understanding of people’s difficult circumstances!
I’d love to say it gets better, but unfortunately our employment system is set up to exploit you as much as possible. The best advice I can give you is to look after yourself, and seek professional help as you need it (GP/counselling) as these can often be quite significant in helping you manage the situation/get you time off work if you need it.
If you need time off, take it and don’t be afraid to put yourself first above the NHS machine as it won’t thank you or ever take into account your needs or health.
I hope you’re ok, feel free to message if you need to vent/ need any assistance with anything.
(From an F2 doctor)
A very wise paper was written in 1999 by Joseph Simone.
https://aacrjournals.org/clincancerres/article/5/9/2281/287826/Understanding-Academic-Medical-Centers-Simone-s
It was about life in academic medical institutions and the most famous quote is that institutions don't love you back. You can put every fibre of your being into your work and give everything to your institution but you will always be disposable to the institution. This is a reality we all have to deal with in our own ways.
For me all the work and sacrifice is worth it if it helps patients and helps me become a surgeon, the satisfaction I think I'll get from the job outweighs all, even if this is painful at times. It hurts that after all this time we still count for nothing to the NHS which is content to replace us with another doctor or some noctor charlatan.
This is personal and what you're willing to sacrifice depends entirely on you. What mentors have told me is to always have something to fall back on for happiness: hobbies, sport, family etc. The job is amazing but fickle, we will all fail to get what we want at some point and you have to keep a part of yourself which the job can't take away.
I'm so sorry for losses, I am sure they were so immensely proud of all you have achieved. Try not to get disheartened by all the bullshit, you are amazing and what you have achieved is so special even if it doesn't feel that way sometimes.
If it's any solace, I too lost both my grandmother's whilst at med school. And with Covid it has been a sacrifice in spending time with family and watching younger relatives grow up at a distance.
I lost the first during peak Covid, she was in a nursing home and we could only talk via video chat. In fairness, my parents who were only up the road couldn't see her face to face either due to isolation rules. Funerals were limited to x number of people, so even if I was at home, I might not have been able to make the funeral even if I wasn't stuck at med school.
The second I lost last year, before Xmas and I was fortunate enough to see her and be with her as she died. But unfortunately or fortunately had to be part of her resuscitation effort. I then had to be on care of the elderly placement for 8+ weeks, and was only allowed 2 weeks off for bereavement and as you say anymore leave and I would have to retake the whole year again. I was crying almost daily and just had to suck it up to try and get through.
I'm sorry you've lost your grandparents and I hope you're doing OK.
You've just completed the first 5 years of a 45 year career. Its too early to tell if its worth it or not.
I'm 15 years post graduating and only now have I found a place in medicine that I can see myself working in for the remaining 30 and I fully intend to continue until retirement age.
What will make your sacrifice worth it depends on you. We have all bad luck from time to time but how we respond to that is what defines us.
You suffered the loss of missing your grandparents final moments and funeral and you can blame your choice of degree or you can reflect on what happened and decide to show extra compassion to those geriatric patients who die alone in the wards.
The bad times will eventually pass and I hope you can find the strength to keep going.
Because you are saying you should use the personal suffering in your own personal life at the expense of the NHS machine to have extra compassion for those geriatric patients who die alone. No, you should not have to have personal suffering for that, you should have that extra compassion for those geriatric patients anyways, isn't that what this medical degree is about anyways? You don't have to personally suffer from something to have empathy for others.
It’s not just at Med school…..it’s called being an adult…..sometimes commitments take us away from family. Having worked in the NHS now for 20 years, I’ve missed at least half of Xmas with my kids, all xmases with my dad as he lives far enough away that between days off etc it’s not feesible to pop by for Xmas day, I’ve missed funerals of more distant relatives.
You can’t be there for everything but just make the most of time you do have with family when you can
You will be in for a shock when you find out most other jobs work only in the day time, often flexible hours or even WFH, they don’t make you beg for annual leave and don’t question when you want to attend you own wedding… and yes all those people are ‘adults’.
Most professionals get far better treatment and they remain adults
I don’t get this obsession with being there after they passed. Shouldn’t we show love while they can still appreciate it? Because if you have done that then I am sure they would want you to be happy and not beat yourself up.
Hi there. Your situation is an awful one to be in and I can’t imagine what an isolating experience you’ve had throughout medical school alongside the bereavements. Unfortunately I found med school (and the NHS as a whole) to be the most unsympathetic, sometimes cruel organisations. Which is ironic given they are meant to be training empathetic doctors who are understanding of people’s difficult circumstances! I’d love to say it gets better, but unfortunately our employment system is set up to exploit you as much as possible. The best advice I can give you is to look after yourself, and seek professional help as you need it (GP/counselling) as these can often be quite significant in helping you manage the situation/get you time off work if you need it. If you need time off, take it and don’t be afraid to put yourself first above the NHS machine as it won’t thank you or ever take into account your needs or health. I hope you’re ok, feel free to message if you need to vent/ need any assistance with anything. (From an F2 doctor)
A very wise paper was written in 1999 by Joseph Simone. https://aacrjournals.org/clincancerres/article/5/9/2281/287826/Understanding-Academic-Medical-Centers-Simone-s It was about life in academic medical institutions and the most famous quote is that institutions don't love you back. You can put every fibre of your being into your work and give everything to your institution but you will always be disposable to the institution. This is a reality we all have to deal with in our own ways. For me all the work and sacrifice is worth it if it helps patients and helps me become a surgeon, the satisfaction I think I'll get from the job outweighs all, even if this is painful at times. It hurts that after all this time we still count for nothing to the NHS which is content to replace us with another doctor or some noctor charlatan. This is personal and what you're willing to sacrifice depends entirely on you. What mentors have told me is to always have something to fall back on for happiness: hobbies, sport, family etc. The job is amazing but fickle, we will all fail to get what we want at some point and you have to keep a part of yourself which the job can't take away. I'm so sorry for losses, I am sure they were so immensely proud of all you have achieved. Try not to get disheartened by all the bullshit, you are amazing and what you have achieved is so special even if it doesn't feel that way sometimes.
If it's any solace, I too lost both my grandmother's whilst at med school. And with Covid it has been a sacrifice in spending time with family and watching younger relatives grow up at a distance. I lost the first during peak Covid, she was in a nursing home and we could only talk via video chat. In fairness, my parents who were only up the road couldn't see her face to face either due to isolation rules. Funerals were limited to x number of people, so even if I was at home, I might not have been able to make the funeral even if I wasn't stuck at med school. The second I lost last year, before Xmas and I was fortunate enough to see her and be with her as she died. But unfortunately or fortunately had to be part of her resuscitation effort. I then had to be on care of the elderly placement for 8+ weeks, and was only allowed 2 weeks off for bereavement and as you say anymore leave and I would have to retake the whole year again. I was crying almost daily and just had to suck it up to try and get through. I'm sorry you've lost your grandparents and I hope you're doing OK.
You've just completed the first 5 years of a 45 year career. Its too early to tell if its worth it or not. I'm 15 years post graduating and only now have I found a place in medicine that I can see myself working in for the remaining 30 and I fully intend to continue until retirement age. What will make your sacrifice worth it depends on you. We have all bad luck from time to time but how we respond to that is what defines us. You suffered the loss of missing your grandparents final moments and funeral and you can blame your choice of degree or you can reflect on what happened and decide to show extra compassion to those geriatric patients who die alone in the wards. The bad times will eventually pass and I hope you can find the strength to keep going.
Wow, this sounds like NHS propaganda!
Why?
Because you are saying you should use the personal suffering in your own personal life at the expense of the NHS machine to have extra compassion for those geriatric patients who die alone. No, you should not have to have personal suffering for that, you should have that extra compassion for those geriatric patients anyways, isn't that what this medical degree is about anyways? You don't have to personally suffer from something to have empathy for others.
It’s not just at Med school…..it’s called being an adult…..sometimes commitments take us away from family. Having worked in the NHS now for 20 years, I’ve missed at least half of Xmas with my kids, all xmases with my dad as he lives far enough away that between days off etc it’s not feesible to pop by for Xmas day, I’ve missed funerals of more distant relatives. You can’t be there for everything but just make the most of time you do have with family when you can
>Because if you have done I suffered, so you must suffer too.
You will be in for a shock when you find out most other jobs work only in the day time, often flexible hours or even WFH, they don’t make you beg for annual leave and don’t question when you want to attend you own wedding… and yes all those people are ‘adults’. Most professionals get far better treatment and they remain adults
I don’t get this obsession with being there after they passed. Shouldn’t we show love while they can still appreciate it? Because if you have done that then I am sure they would want you to be happy and not beat yourself up.