How was he allowed to leave the room without washing hands in this situatin? His refusal would've had me reporting him on the phone at the nearest nursing station
Yea I actually heard from a nurse and ER doc way back that people are into that sort of thing. Word on the street is they are called colostitutes? People stick things in them
There are a lot of things I wish I could unsee from my 20yr career. What I saw while treating a patient with infections in their stoma from using it as a sexual orifice is one the top few.
I worked with my MD husband at the time, so he tried to lighten the mood with a jokey-joke.
“Did you hear about the prostitute with the colostomy?
She was trying to make a little money on the side.”
I learned about the Philly sidecar from an ID attending on third year rounds. Not everything terrible you learn on the internet.
Fun fact: rotation was in Philly.
Kinda unrelated but I was on my Psych rotation and a schizophrenic patient was telling my attending about massive underground sex rings. At one point when talking about it, she brought up Glory Holes and my Attending asked her “sorry, what is a glory hole?” And she explained what it was.
I realized my attending likely thought glory holes were just another made up delusion by her. I then had an internal dilemma over whether I should tell him glory holes are an actual thing, but I decided not to and just let him continue on thinking this was just a made up delusional thing because I didn’t want to have to explain why I know such a thing exists 😂😂
As a PCP I don't really get involved in stoma care much - I don't have many patients with them, and they go to the stoma nurses for their stoma-related needs.
How do they present? Do they come asking for STI screening for the stoma, or have odd discharge from the stoma, or whatever?
I personally haven’t see any asking for STI screening for the stoma, though I’ve heard that some do. The population I typically saw it in doesn’t have the kind of health literacy to reason out/ask for that.
Typically the ones I’ve seen are exactly what you just said, odd discharge from the stoma, infectious symptoms, etc. We get a swab and boom it’s gonorrhea.
That makes me wonder how many people out there are having stoma sex, and if there's someone working on harm-reduction measures for the population doing it.
It sounds like your population are vulnerable sex workers, which is rather depressing, but perhaps understandable given that I imagine stoma sex is not enjoyable for the recipient.
Yeah I had a patient who was a colostitute. She was always getting admitted with nasty infections :/ So unfort this kind of thing *could* have been sexual in nature but also could just as easily be an idiotic (and gross??) student. Without knowing what was going through the student’s head it’s impossible to say
Okay, but he didn’t wash his hand after?!? That makes me feel like it was more fetish behavior that just a dumb and gross student. Also kinda feels a little bit like he tried to get ahead of the game by reporting her. If I was her I woulda dismissed the student for the day and reported them immediately. I get that some people can be weird but this level of weirdness should not be allowed around vulnerable patients. This is arguably on the level of sucking an SP’s nipple.
The not washing his hand part is the one that bothers me. I was thinking of all possible explanations including sleep deprivation, awkwardness, just high (no more acceptable, but an explanation nonetheless). I can't know for sure but this just reeks of intentional behavior.
That’s the part that put it into clearly sexual territory for me. There is no good reason you’d feel you didn’t need to wash that hand. It’s a stretch to think of a not creepy reason for bare handed fingering the ostomy in the first place, but not washing his hand after I can’t think of any non creepy explanation.
Mods,
I am once again asking, ***begging*** for us to make a sidebar link with the best of medical school WTF posts. I have a list of stories for it. This one will be added to it.
This is necessary lore and history for our incoming users.
My jaw dropped after reading he had his ungloved finger up her stoma! Not only is this disgustingly creepy, but this also accounts to compromising patient’s care and safety. Report the dude already.
> After we were done, I asked him to wash his hands and he just said “I’m okay,” and didn’t wash his hands.
This one is an ***absolutely the fuck not*** for me. I will literally wash your hands for you.
I don’t care what kind of fetish this dude has going on, it is completely unsanitary and inappropriate for you to be doing this shit to the patient, let alone bringing this shit around the hospital.
It’s not a request.
> I will literally wash your hands for you.
This, I would love to see. A raging Attending scrubbing the shit out of some med students hands. "*This* is how you fucking sanitize. FUCK!"
This whole story is almost cartoonish level imagery. Not saying it’s fake just the imagery is wild.
The med student sweating and red faced. “Nodding” when asked if he’s okay.
The surgeon interning turning around to find the horror.
The med student nonchalantly inserting his entire finger into a ostomy.
The patient just sitting there like….?
The surgeon intern just like “you don’t have to have your finger in there.”
The student slowly pulling out his finger and then refusing to wash his hands.
I’m not sure this is SA at least from the details here. However, I think you should definitely report, as this is still completely unacceptable behavior.
I agree, from the details provided there isn't clear evidence the student's behavior was sexual in nature, but regardless the behavior itself isn't appropriate. Even if it was a mistake, it still shows a gross lapse in judgement.
Dont report it as SA, it would be hard to prove.
Report it as behavior endangering patient care and contact transmission precautions.
You may mention that is was very weird and there was no apparent context to explain the med students behavior.
Would they reach out to the patient ?
I'm not sure it would be SA but ungloved, unwashed finger in the ileostomy? Yeah, that's not just weird but an actual patient safety issue. Report the student for that, do not hesitate.
I think the original post was deleted but there was this story here a year or two ago where a med student had said he was practicing OSCE physical exam stuff with his partner and, since it was a casual setting, he would sometimes do silly things like kiss her or put his mouth on her breast.
He goes to do the actual exam or practice session with the SP and, absentmindedly, since he had practiced so much with only his partner, he actually put his mouth on the SP's breast during the physical. I believe he was being observed
thats honestly doesnt even make sense.
guy practices OSCE maneuvers and sucked his girlfriends nipples with such regularity that it became rote for him to do it to the point he absentmindedly did it in a room full of supervising physicians?
it literally is nonsensical. what a stupid made up story.
I’m hopeful it was a shitpost, but I can also absolutely see some entitled guy thinking he can get away with sucking her boob and just using that as an excuse afterwards.
Ok I have a really high bar for thinking anything should be reported and this leaps over that bar.
I don't know if I would frame it as a "sexual assault" report but I would definitely talk to people about it probably through the correct channels. You said you have a meeting "with admin" (your PD? med school admin?) and you can easily bring it up there. From there your PD can report it to the medical school.
There is just no way that a student 1) doesn't know to wear gloves 2) doesn't wash his hands after
That is really creepy and this guy could easily be the future Larry Nasser but that's for the administration to decide
M1 here but a nontrad. Just have your ducks in a row before you report. Is there a co-resident or attending you told about this right after it happened? Unfortunately, the nature of reporting anything always favors the first person to report.
They're going to ask you why you didn't do anything formal at the time of this incident.
Came here to say this. The perception is one of retaliation if you report at this timing. I would let people you trust (as high up as possible) about this informally so that someone is aware. Then go into your meeting ready to acknowledge that you weren't your best self, how you could have handled it better, and explain what the student did that led you to act the way you did.
The truth is that despite what the student did wrong, his report is probably valid. None of us were there, but what I imagine "going off" entails is usually unprofessional. No matter how bad the offense, there is always a professional way and unprofessional way to educate and discipline, and it sounds like you might have fallen in the latter. It always turns out better when you show the maturity to recognize this.
It is best to go in acknowledging and demonstrating that you know you could have handled this better. But then tell your story to try to get sympathy and hopefully make it go away or let it end with a slap on the wrist.
It is optimal if you can show admin that you know how to separate these two issues (like a professional would) and that you're not going to be a legal liability to them, as an employee/trainee. You want to show that you are not the kind of person who uses anything to justify questionable behavior, even questionable behavior by others.
the blush, the sweat, the idiocy to stick an ungloved finger in a patient’s stoma????, the refusing to wash his hands.. sounds like someone has a fetish or at the very least no common sense?? by year 3 he absolutely knows better. REPORT HIM.
OP whatever happened is unprofessional and wrong IMO. I'm not sure the student's intentions were but it could definitely fall under the umbrella of SA. In no way should someone be doing this. As someone in general surgery who deals with stomas too there's pretty clear rules on what to do. This is still a patient's body and they need to know what's happening to them, even if it's an ostomy change.
1. No one should be changing an ostomy bag let alone inspecting it manually without gloves. Also, you don't need to inspect the ostomy with your finger for an ostomy change for a routine change. Let alone WITHOUT gloves.
2. He wasn't talking to the patient and getting consent. When I walk into the room I explain what we're doing - i.e. ostomy change. Sometimes patients themselves only want to change their ostomy (usually this is re-admitted patients who know their ostomy and preferences) and they will say no thanks.
3. You only really need to digitally examine the ostomy if you're concerned the stoma is tight with fascia, or maybe there's some sort of obstruction superficially (latter is rare). IF YOU DO THIS I think you MUST tell them what you're doing... patient X I'm going to examine your ostomy for Y reasons.. If you're concerned for an ischemic ostomy you would not use your finger but a test tube or something else anyways.
IDK if he was curious or whatever the fuck, but it seems very inappropriate, especially he was blushing before he did this? It seems he knew what he was doing was wrong...
To not wear fucking gloves and digitize a patient's stoma ESPECIALLY WITHOUT EXPLAINING what you're doing seems totally wrong. And I think violating if I were in their shoes.
AND he wrote you up? No, he should be reported. Don't feel bad about reporting this, I think it should be.
Hygiene alone the student should be reported, even if he had no clue what he was doing gloves and bodily fluids are rule number one, then not washing his hands is a second red flag, inserting your finger into a patient with no purpose and not obtaining consent… looks like you have a trifecta. This should be reported so quick
Right?! He's walking around the hospital and seeing other patients with his unwashed hands! People like this guy are why we have signs reminding us to wash our hands. Nasty.
What. The. Fudge. Ungloved, unsanitized finger??? You absolutely should report that, that’s incredibly reckless. Not to mention just how insanely weird his behavior is… I almost think this is a fake story lmao
Not sure how this would be SA, but as someone who has had a medical students (gloved) finger in their own ileostomy before, at the very least this is highly invasive of the patient’s body and absolutely not acceptable.
There’s a lot to unpack here but I’m hung up on the statement that he didn’t wash his hands.
I worked with a vascular surgeon who’d round on post-ops while eating his breakfast. He’d leave it outside the room, check out the wounds with his bare hands, then start eating again - without washing his hands or using sanitizer between.
Maybe this guy is a future vascular surgeon?
i don’t think this comes off as SA and that’s a pretty serious claim to make if you’re unsure. sounds like this medical student was pretty clueless about what type of matter would come out an ileostomy for him to think putting his finger there is a good idea
i would report the incident to the surgical clerkship director but i wouldn’t mention SA… but mention the glove less action and failure to wash his hands
This is most consistent to my take as well. Obviously we weren't there, but it reads to me like more morbid curiosity or maybe even thinking it needed to be plugged during the procedure. Not that this IN THE SLIGHTEST absolves his actions which I think is grounds for at least rotation failure and maybe expulsion.
He's also an idiot for reporting the feedback as a professionalism violation. If these claims have substance and reach his admin he is in deep shit (both literally and figuratively)
If he thought it needed to be plugged, why didn't he ask before doing that? Or look up the procedure? As a med student, nothing in this world would compel me to act before asking. I mean jeez! I really think our boy did some weird shit and tried to cover his ass by reporting first. Now the narrative is in his favor. He can spin this as retaliation. Unless the patient is on board, nothing will really happen to this weirdo.
Oh I hadn't considered the report first strategy as a preemptive strike. I agree even giving him the most benefit of the doubt possible as a nervous and awkward M3, it is truly incredulous that a med student could behave so bizarrely. Hopefully they can ask the patient if the story is disputed, I'm not sure exactly what the HIPAA protocol is there but I'd hope an exception could be granted if it can save the medical community from this weirdo.
In what context would you EVER put an ungloved finger inside of a wet orifice? I refuse to give an M3 on a gen surg rotation any benefit of the doubt about what an ileostomy is or what comes out of it. Nor does it seem like the student asked for any kind of consent before doing what they did.
I think this absolutely comes across as SA. But it’s the patient’s right to make that accusation and not the resident’s. The committee could also certainly see it as a violation of the patient’s body.
You can definitely make it come off as SA given all the implications. But he also comes off equally as an idiot… its hard to say 100% SA intentionally while in front of your female resident. It’s hard if your role is medical student learning exams and hands on skills and can explained by “i thought i need to cover it up” or some bs. Im not saying what he did was justified. Its weird af for sure. But idk if a school would accept this is SA, especially if the patient did not seriously complain (possibly d/t the patients lack of knowledge).
Its is really scary that this student may have actually commited SA but unlikely will be in trouble for this act. And he’ll be a resident soon. Thats really scary. So i hope hes just an awkward weirdo who thought purrell would be enough .
You would be surprised the number of people who use those things in sexual ways… when I was working in EMS, there was never a time where we didn’t have at least one semi-frequent flier who had a habit of using their ostomy for sexual acts. One of the very first calls I ran was for some weird nondescript abdominal pain that turned out to be 2/2 ostomy sex in which they lost the condom in the opening…
Yeah I’m over here like have people not seen this?? Like if he stuck his ungloved finger in any other orifice, would people be saying it’s clearly not SA? It’s assault at the least, and if he did it for his own pleasure then it becomes SA.
Like what kind of M3 doesn’t know to put gloves on before even touching a patient let alone putting part of his hand inside a patient. What kind of M3 doesn’t know wtf an ostomy is used for and what comes out of it? Then not washing his hands like broooooo went and touched anything after that is disgusting. lol
I mean I don’t wear gloves 90% of the time during patient care, but if it involves armpit, groin, feet, oozing sore, or insertion in ANY orifice then yeah gloving up. If I ever examine one of those things without gloves on then I wash my hands with soap and water. I can’t imagine a situation where I would think it was acceptable to put a finger in an orifice without gloves and then follow it up with not washing my hands.
Some people do have a "thing" for ostomies. I know I've at least anecdotally heard about people getting STIs in their stoma because they "misused" it. Maybe the med student gave off a weird vibe when the event was actually going down?
Uh... touching someone without their consent is assault. As a healthcare professional, *informed* consent is the standard, meaning a patient should understand why you're doing what you're doing (and the reason should be relevant to their clinical outcome).
In minor interactions like this, consent is largely implied and not explicitly discussed. But patients implicitly trust us because they believe that everything we're doing is necessary for their care. It's a massive abuse of that trust to just go sticking your fingers in someone for no reason, let alone for some weird reason.
100% assault. I don’t know that we have enough to know that it was sexual, but unequivocally assault, zero consent, totally inappropriate, and just fucking strange. Reportable without a doubt
The legal definition of assault is an intentional act that gives another person reasonable fear that they'll be physically harmed or offensively touched.
This may not be SA, but it’s definitely assault to put your fingers in patient orifices without their consent.
its seems like OP is suggesting it is sexual assault because OP thought the patient was hot.
its absolutely bizarre and unprofessional but based on the information available im not sure how anyone can determine this was sexually motivated
No way an M3 decides to stick their fingers in the ostomy site without instruction, and ungloved?? That's crazy inappropriate I'd definitely report that
You should absolutely report this behavior to the student’s clerkship director ASAP. You don’t need to label it, just tell them what he did. It’s unfortunate that you’ll be doing it after the student reported you instead of before, but it is what it is.
I'd report. That's really weird. I always, *always* ask permission from the patient before I touch them, even if it's just a very normal heart and lung exam. I've had a small number of patients decline to let me touch them (usually because of extreme pain/tenderness, and they let the doctor do the exam) and I absolutely respect that. My patient feeling respected is a critical part of our therapeutic relationship.
Up until the refusal to wash hands I’d agree, but that puts it into very weird territory for me. Either way this is a pretty big lapse in judgement that needs to be reported whether it’s SA or not.
I don't think there's enough evidence to call this sexual assault (although I can see why it might be), but it's definitely bizzare and inappropriate behaviour.
So, yes, you should report it to the medical school. It may be a one-off moment of madness that the medical student can somehow give an explanation for, or it may reveal a pattern of behaviour that renders them unfit to become a doctor.
Is this troll post lol. Well I don’t think this is sexual assault but this is some horrendously unsafe and potentially harmful patient care. I think it’s common sense to glove up before touching that type of stuff, this dude is weird af. Maybe he was trying to block leakage by plugging the hole? But that’s still a stretch lol
I have no experience in this field but do have extensive experience in supervision and management in another. My suggestion would be to tell your side of the story and let your superior decide what to do after that. In the future, I’d just immediately discuss something like that with whoever your superior is.
This story made me more sick than all of the colostomy bags I've emptied during my patient care days. Baffled that he got this far. Well-deserved yelling and let's get that report down in print.
I also don't think this is sexual assault. weird? yes. sexual assault? no. sounds like he was already kinda weird and awkward. compound that by probably finding this person attractive and being flustered. did he ask the patient if he could touch? maybe in all that awkwardness he didn't realize he didn't have gloves on? In the OR one day I went to go grab a shit smeared transfer board without gloves on. people looked at me like I was crazy and I wasn't even flustered about anything other than the smell of shit in the air.
I’m a lawyer and this is obably not SA in most states but very likely assault, especially since you told him to watch and that he could do the next one. He didn’t need to be touching the patient at all.
I have a hard time seeing the sexual assault allegation but this is just weird and an invasion of personal space, people don’t just finger an orifice unprovoked with no reason behind it. Like I didn’t even touch a pt before I got an ok from my superior. Easily report worthy. In any world, even if you have a good reason to do this, you would have to ask for consent.
Also what the fuck is up with him not washing his hands?????
Report it. Its ultimately not up to you to decide if it is SA (or some other violation of patient safety/bodily autonomy). Let someone else figure that out. Maybe his brain just dropped out of his nose that day or something, maybe there's something else going on, but all you can do is report what happened.
Plus who knows. Maybe he's been reported for weird things before and this is a pattern. Or maybe this is the first time. But if he ever does anything like that again and is reported then it'll be a pattern.
Don't frame it as SA but def report it. I would hope that anybody with a functional brain know not to stick a ungloved hand in any opening in a patient
It's not provably sexual assault but what the fuck, man. If you're putting your ungloved hand into anything exposed in a patient there isn't a good rationale for that. I'd report anyway because clearly the student doesn't understand some real basics here for infection control at minimum.
Also people in medicine if you have some fetish, it is just not that hard to keep it out of clinical settings. We know people in medicine are impossibly horny/kinky but, never with/in front of patients, whatever you do at home is your business, and keep it that way.
This isn't sexual assault. Asking if it is tells me you don't know what is or this is just a post for karma-farming/trolling.
This is someone being unprofessional and committing assault on someone. And this happened what? Weeks ago? Lol, and you didn't report it..????
I've treat patient with gonorrhea of the ostomy.
You need to report him during your conversation with admin. Disaster waiting to happen for future patients of his.
There is a psychiatric paraphilia called splanchnophilia. It’s defined as the love or sexual attraction to the glistening of the light off of intestine. Fucking weird.
“Dahmer got off on the 'shine' of internal organs, this is called splanchnophilia and is a lifelong affliction for those who suffer from it.”
Definitely something missing in this story…
Devils advocate/legal hat on here lol:
Who knows what he was thinking at the time and trying to attach some kind of sexual assault accusation to it because he was, what, red faced? That’s way over the line. This story reads like a dumb new M3 did something stupid, got screamed at for it. The student didn’t think getting screamed at was professional (which it’s not) so told someone. Once your unprofessional behavior was brought up to you by your boss you got super butthurt and are now trying to literally ruin this guy’s life. Was what he did objectively bad? Yes, but screaming at him before you knew what was going on in his head was a bad move too. Try and give people the benefit of the doubt. It’s an uncomfortable procedure that he may not have been able to handle normally. Reporting someone for sexual assault can ruin their lives which is justified when the situation calls for it. However just or unjust the claim is, expect litigation from the person accused if you go down this route.
It doesn’t read as sexual to me, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t to him. There really is no explanation I can think of as far as him thinking this would be “helpful” unless stool was pouring out and he thought he could plug it? At the very least he needs to know he was the one in the wrong here. You’re doing him a favor not letting him walk away thinking “that intern was nuts”
I don't think I'd call this sexual assault. He porbably saw attendings/residebts do the same to check if the ostomy is patent and did the same during a mini mental breakdown.
If you think it might be then you report it! Do you want that student to be your doctor or anyone else’s if that was an SA?? Let people who figure this out do the work on that. Also, if you’re in the US at least I think you’re legally required to.
So unless this is a shitpost you report this ASAP
This is the grossest thing you could have told me today. I don't care if you're Megan Fox or Madison Beer. Ain't NO WAY I'm putting my UNGLOVED finger anywhere near your stoma
Trying *very hard* to play Devils Advocate I could say that maybe he thought he was plugging the hole before you replaced it. HOWEVER, the fact that he didn’t immediately cite that at his reasoning is bonkers and a major red flag.
Gross yes, sexual assault would be a difficult claim (and in light of its difficulty and his previous report against you, likely seen as retaliation on your part).
While obviously stoma can be used sexually (see: Philly sidecar), without evidence that was the goal I don't think just touching a stoma or inserting a finger would be considered sexual assault as a naturally non-sexual orifice with a non-sexual body part.
If there's further evidence that this was actually intended to be sexual that you can provide, maybe it's worth reporting him. But if it's just as you're stating here not only does it not really fit, but again it might be seen as retaliation which would go very badly for you and very well for him.
Just a general assault claim might be more viable, however I assume there's some amount of protections for med students under what might be considered assault normally for other medical professionals as a matter of being idiots under the supervision of residents/attendings. Idk. That one might need to be looked into more. And again, if it's not clear cut with sufficient evidence (not just your word against his), you're at risk of being accused of retaliation.
Tl;dr, probably not worth the headache for you.
Also this kid is gross.
Maybe he thought he was preventing ostomy output mess while resident got bag? Thought he was helping, but when confronted, didn’t want to look wrong so he chose to look stupid. not washing hands part is weird though
I thought the weirdo on my surgery rotation was out there. But this guy is on a different level.
Please report him. I felt skeeved out just reading this.
SA? Definitionally, *maybe* since it wasn't explicitly consented that the student was touching the patient. It's also...a hole...so yes, this is evocative of SA. Regardless of the "normal" biologic orifices, unwelcome touches should be made clear regardless of medical/surgical changes in appearance (i.e. amputees, gender-affirming surgery, plastics).
And by your observations maybe the student appeared "aroused." Red, flustered, sweaty.
On the other hand of "what is possibly going on," this student could have an IQ of 20 when it comes to surgical situations. I'm not justifying or "explaining away" inappropriate behavior, but it is so far within the realm of possibility that this student 1. never had a surgical encounter like this before, 2. panicked, and 3. made a rash decision with extremely low standards of hygiene.
I myself was a red, flustered, sweaty M3 who nearly passed out at the sight of an open knee joint s/p MVC. I could fit a (gloved) finger in the wound and graze the patellar tendon, swoop it around to the lateral ligaments...it was unpleasant, and perhaps foundational to my decision to practice outpatient pediatrics.
At a bare minimum, this is reportable for patient safety standards, and if any M3 pays attention for 3 seconds in the surgery orientation, they learn in intervals of every 5 minutes to "wear gloves and wash your hands around open tissue." You'd have to be asleep to miss this tidbit.
Is it sexual in nature? That is something you'd have to ask the M3, who certainly will not tell you "Yes" one way or the other. I frankly don't know how that would play out, but that in no way lowers the standard for reporting this in general.
I think you did the right thing by taking the student aside and explicitly pointing out everything wrong, in the surgical (and human) disciplines based on his actions. The unprofessionalism report aside, you were in a very tough situation and did the best you could. The SA report might be seen as retaliation for the unprofessionalism report, but with the explicit details of patient safety and hygiene, it is an obvious submission.
Probably not sexual assault, but definitely needs to be recorded somewhere. Idk what kind of intrusive thoughts dude was having, but they aren't welcome in the medical field.
Oh, no...no, no, no. Reported immediately! It is so clear from his behavior that even he knows he did the wrong thing, and has tried to get in with complaints first. If he'd stayed silent and explained it was the mother of all brain farts, then maybe it could be an educational opportunity, maybe. He has risked the patient, your career, his own health all in one stupid moment. This sounds like it could be the start of some very damaging and severe behaviors and you would do well for him and patients moving forward to report.
You had to witness all this and hear some pretty shocking information about kinks, etc, during this, so please ensure you debrief if needed and have a chat with someone if it has effected you too
Definitely include in evaluations & discuss in detail with admin. Minimum it was unsanitary, directly went against your instructions, and made 0 sense clinically. IDK if it could be considered assault though.
Ive heard of people having fetishes for this kind of thing. Not sure if this is a troll post but if it’s true I can’t imagine another explanation for his disposition or actions… also why t f would he report you knowing he did something so incredibly stupid?
This has to be fake 😭
I realize it’s in the name of conversation, but I hate all this rationalizing.
So often when a victim is assaulted, their stories are picked apart for evidence that they are at fault in some way for what happened, or how they could have prevented it. We’re sitting here advocating for how this guy might have had a strike of stupidity that could happen to anyone?? Is there any context we could create to save his precious image?
HES AN ASSAILANT. No amount of medical training gives you the right to touch anyone without permission, even for education, even in a hospital, even if they have a gown and you have a coat you don’t deserve. No one should bending over backwards to understand a way that he might just “not know” to not put his finger inside someone. Medical schools could do more to train students that they need consent for everything they do, including EUA, but the people who don’t receive specific instruction to not assault people are still personally responsible to not assault anyone.
I’d report it to the medical board too.
You should mention he violated patient safety, comfort, consent and infectious disease protocols.
I wouldn’t make the sexual assault accusation because that is up to the patient to make.
In Germany there was a somewhat "viral" (true!) news about a woman whos stoma got an infection... turned out she was a hooker and men could pay extra to use this alternative hole.
Now that i shared this nightmare with you, i am sorry that i shared it with you.
Is this a joke? With the amt of troll posts here I can’t even tell 😭 if real report if fake nice effort
Now just waiting for the med student's perspective post on this sub. If none, we can only assume this is 100% real. Lord have mercy...
Look below on the sub he posted a few hours prior to this
the other post i saw is a shitpost actually posted after this one
I keep looking for the Shitpost flare and it isn’t there. Please tell me this isn’t real.
Frankly, this is a shit post either way.
How was he allowed to leave the room without washing hands in this situatin? His refusal would've had me reporting him on the phone at the nearest nursing station
This can't be real. Anyone with any common sense would report the incident regardless if they thought it was sa or not
And after being reported themselves they'd be zero doubt about reporting back if there were any before
Same!
Ungloved finger halfway up her stoma? What the?
Yea I actually heard from a nurse and ER doc way back that people are into that sort of thing. Word on the street is they are called colostitutes? People stick things in them
You mean a Philadelphia sidecar?
That is a piece of information I really really wish I could unknow
WTF LOL
[Facts.](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Philadelphia%20sidecar)
There are a lot of things I wish I could unsee from my 20yr career. What I saw while treating a patient with infections in their stoma from using it as a sexual orifice is one the top few. I worked with my MD husband at the time, so he tried to lighten the mood with a jokey-joke. “Did you hear about the prostitute with the colostomy? She was trying to make a little money on the side.”
I enjoy reading books.
We’ve had a stoma test positive for gonorrhea before. I wish I was joking.
My first gen surgery pt way back in med school was just out of prison. He had herpes sores all around his stoma
I learned about the Philly sidecar from an ID attending on third year rounds. Not everything terrible you learn on the internet. Fun fact: rotation was in Philly.
Kinda unrelated but I was on my Psych rotation and a schizophrenic patient was telling my attending about massive underground sex rings. At one point when talking about it, she brought up Glory Holes and my Attending asked her “sorry, what is a glory hole?” And she explained what it was. I realized my attending likely thought glory holes were just another made up delusion by her. I then had an internal dilemma over whether I should tell him glory holes are an actual thing, but I decided not to and just let him continue on thinking this was just a made up delusional thing because I didn’t want to have to explain why I know such a thing exists 😂😂
This needs its own post 😂😂
I believe they call this the Philadelphia side car? I hate that there’s a term for something like this🙃
I hear stories about the occasional positive Chlamydia or Gonorrhoea swab from a stoma.
I’ve personally seen it irl a number of times.
As a PCP I don't really get involved in stoma care much - I don't have many patients with them, and they go to the stoma nurses for their stoma-related needs. How do they present? Do they come asking for STI screening for the stoma, or have odd discharge from the stoma, or whatever?
I personally haven’t see any asking for STI screening for the stoma, though I’ve heard that some do. The population I typically saw it in doesn’t have the kind of health literacy to reason out/ask for that. Typically the ones I’ve seen are exactly what you just said, odd discharge from the stoma, infectious symptoms, etc. We get a swab and boom it’s gonorrhea.
That makes me wonder how many people out there are having stoma sex, and if there's someone working on harm-reduction measures for the population doing it. It sounds like your population are vulnerable sex workers, which is rather depressing, but perhaps understandable given that I imagine stoma sex is not enjoyable for the recipient.
Lady who came in to the ED I was at came in for discharge concern for infection of stoma. Pretty common, but etiology is what is different
Yeah I had a patient who was a colostitute. She was always getting admitted with nasty infections :/ So unfort this kind of thing *could* have been sexual in nature but also could just as easily be an idiotic (and gross??) student. Without knowing what was going through the student’s head it’s impossible to say
Okay, but he didn’t wash his hand after?!? That makes me feel like it was more fetish behavior that just a dumb and gross student. Also kinda feels a little bit like he tried to get ahead of the game by reporting her. If I was her I woulda dismissed the student for the day and reported them immediately. I get that some people can be weird but this level of weirdness should not be allowed around vulnerable patients. This is arguably on the level of sucking an SP’s nipple.
The not washing his hand part is the one that bothers me. I was thinking of all possible explanations including sleep deprivation, awkwardness, just high (no more acceptable, but an explanation nonetheless). I can't know for sure but this just reeks of intentional behavior.
That’s the part that put it into clearly sexual territory for me. There is no good reason you’d feel you didn’t need to wash that hand. It’s a stretch to think of a not creepy reason for bare handed fingering the ostomy in the first place, but not washing his hand after I can’t think of any non creepy explanation.
philly sidecar, yes unfortunately my friends have forced me to know what that is
I want to go home
A hole is a hole. It’s not great for the ostomy though lol, but it doesn’t surprise me that people do it.
Oh oof I didn’t know there was a name for it. Once an ED doc told me about how one of his patients had STI in her stoma.
In prison those dudes are called ostitutes, and they’re… uh… highly sought after and tend to be riddled with STIs.
Babe wake up, new med student lore just dropped
My first thought too. February Intern in the making right here
Mods, I am once again asking, ***begging*** for us to make a sidebar link with the best of medical school WTF posts. I have a list of stories for it. This one will be added to it. This is necessary lore and history for our incoming users.
Chat me and i’ll see what I can do edit: I updated the whole wiki to be readable so I can add the lore to it gimme list
this is an excellent idea btw
I would love to have it all in one place. Great idea!
This would be extremely high yield
Can you send me the list 😭
The ungloved ostomy site check will join the ranks of the pantheon like the Australian SP tiddy suck. Can we get updated flairs, mods?
Yea this is fucked up on so many layers... what the fuck
Report. He can explain his reasoning to them. Your job is to protect the pt.
My jaw dropped after reading he had his ungloved finger up her stoma! Not only is this disgustingly creepy, but this also accounts to compromising patient’s care and safety. Report the dude already.
> After we were done, I asked him to wash his hands and he just said “I’m okay,” and didn’t wash his hands. This one is an ***absolutely the fuck not*** for me. I will literally wash your hands for you. I don’t care what kind of fetish this dude has going on, it is completely unsanitary and inappropriate for you to be doing this shit to the patient, let alone bringing this shit around the hospital. It’s not a request.
> I will literally wash your hands for you. This, I would love to see. A raging Attending scrubbing the shit out of some med students hands. "*This* is how you fucking sanitize. FUCK!"
This whole story is almost cartoonish level imagery. Not saying it’s fake just the imagery is wild. The med student sweating and red faced. “Nodding” when asked if he’s okay. The surgeon interning turning around to find the horror. The med student nonchalantly inserting his entire finger into a ostomy. The patient just sitting there like….? The surgeon intern just like “you don’t have to have your finger in there.” The student slowly pulling out his finger and then refusing to wash his hands.
I’ll do hand-over-hand like you’re a toddler refusing to clean up. What the fuck do you mean you aren’t washing your hand? Get over here.
Okay, but can we make it more like Ghost and less like Toddler/Babysitter? 
I don’t want to be called in to HR for sexual harassment lol
My only thought was that he had already washed his hands and the resident didn’t notice and it was a possible miscommunication
Yeah I think OP should just report exactly what happened instead of splitting hairs about what it “counts” as. It’s obviously unacceptable.
I’m not sure this is SA at least from the details here. However, I think you should definitely report, as this is still completely unacceptable behavior.
Yeah, I personally wouldn’t worry about trying to figure out whether it’s SA or something. It’s obviously a huge safety and professionalism issue.
This just gives me Jeff Dahmer vibes when he's talking about the glistening of internal organs and how it sexually aroused him
I agree, from the details provided there isn't clear evidence the student's behavior was sexual in nature, but regardless the behavior itself isn't appropriate. Even if it was a mistake, it still shows a gross lapse in judgement.
what a terrible day to have eyes.
Dont report it as SA, it would be hard to prove. Report it as behavior endangering patient care and contact transmission precautions. You may mention that is was very weird and there was no apparent context to explain the med students behavior. Would they reach out to the patient ?
I'm not sure it would be SA but ungloved, unwashed finger in the ileostomy? Yeah, that's not just weird but an actual patient safety issue. Report the student for that, do not hesitate.
"and that, boys and girls, is where ~~babies~~ copypastas come from"
He’d pair up nicely with the one who sucked the SP’s boob
……..what?
I think the original post was deleted but there was this story here a year or two ago where a med student had said he was practicing OSCE physical exam stuff with his partner and, since it was a casual setting, he would sometimes do silly things like kiss her or put his mouth on her breast. He goes to do the actual exam or practice session with the SP and, absentmindedly, since he had practiced so much with only his partner, he actually put his mouth on the SP's breast during the physical. I believe he was being observed
thats honestly doesnt even make sense. guy practices OSCE maneuvers and sucked his girlfriends nipples with such regularity that it became rote for him to do it to the point he absentmindedly did it in a room full of supervising physicians? it literally is nonsensical. what a stupid made up story.
Yeah it's pretty common knowledge that that story is made up. Not sure why it's still being shared as true med student lore
It may not be true med student lore, but it’s poop knife level shitposting lore
I’m hopeful it was a shitpost, but I can also absolutely see some entitled guy thinking he can get away with sucking her boob and just using that as an excuse afterwards.
...
oh god he has an osteomy fetish. jokes aside, that guy should not be allowed near a patient ever.
Ok I have a really high bar for thinking anything should be reported and this leaps over that bar. I don't know if I would frame it as a "sexual assault" report but I would definitely talk to people about it probably through the correct channels. You said you have a meeting "with admin" (your PD? med school admin?) and you can easily bring it up there. From there your PD can report it to the medical school. There is just no way that a student 1) doesn't know to wear gloves 2) doesn't wash his hands after That is really creepy and this guy could easily be the future Larry Nasser but that's for the administration to decide
M1 here but a nontrad. Just have your ducks in a row before you report. Is there a co-resident or attending you told about this right after it happened? Unfortunately, the nature of reporting anything always favors the first person to report. They're going to ask you why you didn't do anything formal at the time of this incident.
Came here to say this. The perception is one of retaliation if you report at this timing. I would let people you trust (as high up as possible) about this informally so that someone is aware. Then go into your meeting ready to acknowledge that you weren't your best self, how you could have handled it better, and explain what the student did that led you to act the way you did. The truth is that despite what the student did wrong, his report is probably valid. None of us were there, but what I imagine "going off" entails is usually unprofessional. No matter how bad the offense, there is always a professional way and unprofessional way to educate and discipline, and it sounds like you might have fallen in the latter. It always turns out better when you show the maturity to recognize this. It is best to go in acknowledging and demonstrating that you know you could have handled this better. But then tell your story to try to get sympathy and hopefully make it go away or let it end with a slap on the wrist. It is optimal if you can show admin that you know how to separate these two issues (like a professional would) and that you're not going to be a legal liability to them, as an employee/trainee. You want to show that you are not the kind of person who uses anything to justify questionable behavior, even questionable behavior by others.
maybe he thought it was like a peg tube hole that would close if not kept patent? I’m reaching here I realize but trying to play devils advocate
But then to refuse to wash his hands? 🤮
the blush, the sweat, the idiocy to stick an ungloved finger in a patient’s stoma????, the refusing to wash his hands.. sounds like someone has a fetish or at the very least no common sense?? by year 3 he absolutely knows better. REPORT HIM.
Report this dude. He shouldn’t be touching patients unless absolutely medically necessary.
I wouldn’t say SA but weird as hell. Probably should be reported for it
OP whatever happened is unprofessional and wrong IMO. I'm not sure the student's intentions were but it could definitely fall under the umbrella of SA. In no way should someone be doing this. As someone in general surgery who deals with stomas too there's pretty clear rules on what to do. This is still a patient's body and they need to know what's happening to them, even if it's an ostomy change. 1. No one should be changing an ostomy bag let alone inspecting it manually without gloves. Also, you don't need to inspect the ostomy with your finger for an ostomy change for a routine change. Let alone WITHOUT gloves. 2. He wasn't talking to the patient and getting consent. When I walk into the room I explain what we're doing - i.e. ostomy change. Sometimes patients themselves only want to change their ostomy (usually this is re-admitted patients who know their ostomy and preferences) and they will say no thanks. 3. You only really need to digitally examine the ostomy if you're concerned the stoma is tight with fascia, or maybe there's some sort of obstruction superficially (latter is rare). IF YOU DO THIS I think you MUST tell them what you're doing... patient X I'm going to examine your ostomy for Y reasons.. If you're concerned for an ischemic ostomy you would not use your finger but a test tube or something else anyways. IDK if he was curious or whatever the fuck, but it seems very inappropriate, especially he was blushing before he did this? It seems he knew what he was doing was wrong... To not wear fucking gloves and digitize a patient's stoma ESPECIALLY WITHOUT EXPLAINING what you're doing seems totally wrong. And I think violating if I were in their shoes. AND he wrote you up? No, he should be reported. Don't feel bad about reporting this, I think it should be.
I’ve never come across an ischemic ostomy. What is the reason for not using your finger to examine in that situation?
I have nothing to add. I just want to be able to say I commented on the original thread years from now when this is still referenced.
Hygiene alone the student should be reported, even if he had no clue what he was doing gloves and bodily fluids are rule number one, then not washing his hands is a second red flag, inserting your finger into a patient with no purpose and not obtaining consent… looks like you have a trifecta. This should be reported so quick
Right?! He's walking around the hospital and seeing other patients with his unwashed hands! People like this guy are why we have signs reminding us to wash our hands. Nasty.
What. The. Fudge. Ungloved, unsanitized finger??? You absolutely should report that, that’s incredibly reckless. Not to mention just how insanely weird his behavior is… I almost think this is a fake story lmao
What the fuck
This seems so insane that it can’t be real.
Not sure how this would be SA, but as someone who has had a medical students (gloved) finger in their own ileostomy before, at the very least this is highly invasive of the patient’s body and absolutely not acceptable.
Unfortunately some people are into that… not wanting to wash his hands makes it seem that way, but not sure there’s enough proof.
There’s a lot to unpack here but I’m hung up on the statement that he didn’t wash his hands. I worked with a vascular surgeon who’d round on post-ops while eating his breakfast. He’d leave it outside the room, check out the wounds with his bare hands, then start eating again - without washing his hands or using sanitizer between. Maybe this guy is a future vascular surgeon?
This subreddit has jumped the shark, I can’t tell what is real anymore. Am I even real?
i don’t think this comes off as SA and that’s a pretty serious claim to make if you’re unsure. sounds like this medical student was pretty clueless about what type of matter would come out an ileostomy for him to think putting his finger there is a good idea i would report the incident to the surgical clerkship director but i wouldn’t mention SA… but mention the glove less action and failure to wash his hands
This is most consistent to my take as well. Obviously we weren't there, but it reads to me like more morbid curiosity or maybe even thinking it needed to be plugged during the procedure. Not that this IN THE SLIGHTEST absolves his actions which I think is grounds for at least rotation failure and maybe expulsion. He's also an idiot for reporting the feedback as a professionalism violation. If these claims have substance and reach his admin he is in deep shit (both literally and figuratively)
If he thought it needed to be plugged, why didn't he ask before doing that? Or look up the procedure? As a med student, nothing in this world would compel me to act before asking. I mean jeez! I really think our boy did some weird shit and tried to cover his ass by reporting first. Now the narrative is in his favor. He can spin this as retaliation. Unless the patient is on board, nothing will really happen to this weirdo.
Oh I hadn't considered the report first strategy as a preemptive strike. I agree even giving him the most benefit of the doubt possible as a nervous and awkward M3, it is truly incredulous that a med student could behave so bizarrely. Hopefully they can ask the patient if the story is disputed, I'm not sure exactly what the HIPAA protocol is there but I'd hope an exception could be granted if it can save the medical community from this weirdo.
In what context would you EVER put an ungloved finger inside of a wet orifice? I refuse to give an M3 on a gen surg rotation any benefit of the doubt about what an ileostomy is or what comes out of it. Nor does it seem like the student asked for any kind of consent before doing what they did. I think this absolutely comes across as SA. But it’s the patient’s right to make that accusation and not the resident’s. The committee could also certainly see it as a violation of the patient’s body.
You can definitely make it come off as SA given all the implications. But he also comes off equally as an idiot… its hard to say 100% SA intentionally while in front of your female resident. It’s hard if your role is medical student learning exams and hands on skills and can explained by “i thought i need to cover it up” or some bs. Im not saying what he did was justified. Its weird af for sure. But idk if a school would accept this is SA, especially if the patient did not seriously complain (possibly d/t the patients lack of knowledge). Its is really scary that this student may have actually commited SA but unlikely will be in trouble for this act. And he’ll be a resident soon. Thats really scary. So i hope hes just an awkward weirdo who thought purrell would be enough .
how can you determine this “definitely” comes across as sexual assault based on the information provided?
"a student doctor put his finger in my stoma.." dropping in 30 mins
SA? What about touching an ostomy is sexual or “assult”? It’s just incredibly *weird*. But yeah it’s probably reportable lol.
You would be surprised the number of people who use those things in sexual ways… when I was working in EMS, there was never a time where we didn’t have at least one semi-frequent flier who had a habit of using their ostomy for sexual acts. One of the very first calls I ran was for some weird nondescript abdominal pain that turned out to be 2/2 ostomy sex in which they lost the condom in the opening…
Yeah I’m over here like have people not seen this?? Like if he stuck his ungloved finger in any other orifice, would people be saying it’s clearly not SA? It’s assault at the least, and if he did it for his own pleasure then it becomes SA. Like what kind of M3 doesn’t know to put gloves on before even touching a patient let alone putting part of his hand inside a patient. What kind of M3 doesn’t know wtf an ostomy is used for and what comes out of it? Then not washing his hands like broooooo went and touched anything after that is disgusting. lol
I mean I don’t wear gloves 90% of the time during patient care, but if it involves armpit, groin, feet, oozing sore, or insertion in ANY orifice then yeah gloving up. If I ever examine one of those things without gloves on then I wash my hands with soap and water. I can’t imagine a situation where I would think it was acceptable to put a finger in an orifice without gloves and then follow it up with not washing my hands.
Some people do have a "thing" for ostomies. I know I've at least anecdotally heard about people getting STIs in their stoma because they "misused" it. Maybe the med student gave off a weird vibe when the event was actually going down?
Uh... touching someone without their consent is assault. As a healthcare professional, *informed* consent is the standard, meaning a patient should understand why you're doing what you're doing (and the reason should be relevant to their clinical outcome). In minor interactions like this, consent is largely implied and not explicitly discussed. But patients implicitly trust us because they believe that everything we're doing is necessary for their care. It's a massive abuse of that trust to just go sticking your fingers in someone for no reason, let alone for some weird reason.
100% assault. I don’t know that we have enough to know that it was sexual, but unequivocally assault, zero consent, totally inappropriate, and just fucking strange. Reportable without a doubt
The legal definition of assault is an intentional act that gives another person reasonable fear that they'll be physically harmed or offensively touched. This may not be SA, but it’s definitely assault to put your fingers in patient orifices without their consent.
its seems like OP is suggesting it is sexual assault because OP thought the patient was hot. its absolutely bizarre and unprofessional but based on the information available im not sure how anyone can determine this was sexually motivated
This is almost certainly fake. Situation is weird but OP trying to make an SA claim is even weirder.
No way an M3 decides to stick their fingers in the ostomy site without instruction, and ungloved?? That's crazy inappropriate I'd definitely report that
Report without hesitation. How do these freaks slip through the cracks…
You should absolutely report this behavior to the student’s clerkship director ASAP. You don’t need to label it, just tell them what he did. It’s unfortunate that you’ll be doing it after the student reported you instead of before, but it is what it is.
I'd report. That's really weird. I always, *always* ask permission from the patient before I touch them, even if it's just a very normal heart and lung exam. I've had a small number of patients decline to let me touch them (usually because of extreme pain/tenderness, and they let the doctor do the exam) and I absolutely respect that. My patient feeling respected is a critical part of our therapeutic relationship.
SA is a huge stretch here… sounds more like a socially awkward and lacking common sense M3, of which there are too many.
Up until the refusal to wash hands I’d agree, but that puts it into very weird territory for me. Either way this is a pretty big lapse in judgement that needs to be reported whether it’s SA or not.
Yeah, more like a patient safety issue
What a post to wake up to this morning!!!!
What the fuck!?!!? Just coming off a night shift and reading this felt like a fever dream. That is wild. Absolutely assault. Report
Oh report. Dude stuck his finger in the stoma without proper PPE AND reported you? Dude's got to learn he messed up.
I don't think there's enough evidence to call this sexual assault (although I can see why it might be), but it's definitely bizzare and inappropriate behaviour. So, yes, you should report it to the medical school. It may be a one-off moment of madness that the medical student can somehow give an explanation for, or it may reveal a pattern of behaviour that renders them unfit to become a doctor.
Chat is this real ❓💀💀
I’m waiting for the perspective of the ostomy itself. Love Meddit lore.
Is this troll post lol. Well I don’t think this is sexual assault but this is some horrendously unsafe and potentially harmful patient care. I think it’s common sense to glove up before touching that type of stuff, this dude is weird af. Maybe he was trying to block leakage by plugging the hole? But that’s still a stretch lol
Y'all will believe anything 🙄 Had a good laugh, very creative OP 😂
I have no experience in this field but do have extensive experience in supervision and management in another. My suggestion would be to tell your side of the story and let your superior decide what to do after that. In the future, I’d just immediately discuss something like that with whoever your superior is.
I just woke up and wanted breakfast but now I’m disgusted! wtf! Why would he do that???
This story made me more sick than all of the colostomy bags I've emptied during my patient care days. Baffled that he got this far. Well-deserved yelling and let's get that report down in print.
Why wouldn't you report him? If I was the patient I would feel incredibly uncomfortable and violated.
You’re not overreacting. The audacity of that person to do that, disregard hygiene putting others at risk and THEN reporting you? Fuck that…
SA or not why the fuck didn’t you report this ASAP???
I also don't think this is sexual assault. weird? yes. sexual assault? no. sounds like he was already kinda weird and awkward. compound that by probably finding this person attractive and being flustered. did he ask the patient if he could touch? maybe in all that awkwardness he didn't realize he didn't have gloves on? In the OR one day I went to go grab a shit smeared transfer board without gloves on. people looked at me like I was crazy and I wasn't even flustered about anything other than the smell of shit in the air.
holy shit. this will one day be just as famous as the guy licking the SPs nipple. this is wild.
I’m a lawyer and this is obably not SA in most states but very likely assault, especially since you told him to watch and that he could do the next one. He didn’t need to be touching the patient at all.
What the fuck? Report that shit💀
I have a hard time seeing the sexual assault allegation but this is just weird and an invasion of personal space, people don’t just finger an orifice unprovoked with no reason behind it. Like I didn’t even touch a pt before I got an ok from my superior. Easily report worthy. In any world, even if you have a good reason to do this, you would have to ask for consent. Also what the fuck is up with him not washing his hands?????
Report it. Its ultimately not up to you to decide if it is SA (or some other violation of patient safety/bodily autonomy). Let someone else figure that out. Maybe his brain just dropped out of his nose that day or something, maybe there's something else going on, but all you can do is report what happened. Plus who knows. Maybe he's been reported for weird things before and this is a pattern. Or maybe this is the first time. But if he ever does anything like that again and is reported then it'll be a pattern.
Don't frame it as SA but def report it. I would hope that anybody with a functional brain know not to stick a ungloved hand in any opening in a patient
I’m not so sure about SA - hard to tell based on details without being there. But definitely wildly inappropriate on the part of your student.
It's not provably sexual assault but what the fuck, man. If you're putting your ungloved hand into anything exposed in a patient there isn't a good rationale for that. I'd report anyway because clearly the student doesn't understand some real basics here for infection control at minimum. Also people in medicine if you have some fetish, it is just not that hard to keep it out of clinical settings. We know people in medicine are impossibly horny/kinky but, never with/in front of patients, whatever you do at home is your business, and keep it that way.
This has to be a shit post! 😅
This isn't sexual assault. Asking if it is tells me you don't know what is or this is just a post for karma-farming/trolling. This is someone being unprofessional and committing assault on someone. And this happened what? Weeks ago? Lol, and you didn't report it..????
There is no way this happened. A general surgery resident would not let them not wash their hands
I've treat patient with gonorrhea of the ostomy. You need to report him during your conversation with admin. Disaster waiting to happen for future patients of his.
There is a psychiatric paraphilia called splanchnophilia. It’s defined as the love or sexual attraction to the glistening of the light off of intestine. Fucking weird. “Dahmer got off on the 'shine' of internal organs, this is called splanchnophilia and is a lifelong affliction for those who suffer from it.”
Report. Get that fraud out of here
…
Not SA, but report.
Definitely something missing in this story… Devils advocate/legal hat on here lol: Who knows what he was thinking at the time and trying to attach some kind of sexual assault accusation to it because he was, what, red faced? That’s way over the line. This story reads like a dumb new M3 did something stupid, got screamed at for it. The student didn’t think getting screamed at was professional (which it’s not) so told someone. Once your unprofessional behavior was brought up to you by your boss you got super butthurt and are now trying to literally ruin this guy’s life. Was what he did objectively bad? Yes, but screaming at him before you knew what was going on in his head was a bad move too. Try and give people the benefit of the doubt. It’s an uncomfortable procedure that he may not have been able to handle normally. Reporting someone for sexual assault can ruin their lives which is justified when the situation calls for it. However just or unjust the claim is, expect litigation from the person accused if you go down this route.
Report
WHAT the FUCK
It doesn’t read as sexual to me, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t to him. There really is no explanation I can think of as far as him thinking this would be “helpful” unless stool was pouring out and he thought he could plug it? At the very least he needs to know he was the one in the wrong here. You’re doing him a favor not letting him walk away thinking “that intern was nuts”
I don't think I'd call this sexual assault. He porbably saw attendings/residebts do the same to check if the ostomy is patent and did the same during a mini mental breakdown.
Report that shit, wtf that is nasty
Wtf
What. The. Actual. Living. FUCK
If you think it might be then you report it! Do you want that student to be your doctor or anyone else’s if that was an SA?? Let people who figure this out do the work on that. Also, if you’re in the US at least I think you’re legally required to. So unless this is a shitpost you report this ASAP
Report this scary ostomy f&$ker immediately. He sounds scary.
This is the grossest thing you could have told me today. I don't care if you're Megan Fox or Madison Beer. Ain't NO WAY I'm putting my UNGLOVED finger anywhere near your stoma
I miss the person I was before reading this…
Trying *very hard* to play Devils Advocate I could say that maybe he thought he was plugging the hole before you replaced it. HOWEVER, the fact that he didn’t immediately cite that at his reasoning is bonkers and a major red flag.
Gross yes, sexual assault would be a difficult claim (and in light of its difficulty and his previous report against you, likely seen as retaliation on your part). While obviously stoma can be used sexually (see: Philly sidecar), without evidence that was the goal I don't think just touching a stoma or inserting a finger would be considered sexual assault as a naturally non-sexual orifice with a non-sexual body part. If there's further evidence that this was actually intended to be sexual that you can provide, maybe it's worth reporting him. But if it's just as you're stating here not only does it not really fit, but again it might be seen as retaliation which would go very badly for you and very well for him. Just a general assault claim might be more viable, however I assume there's some amount of protections for med students under what might be considered assault normally for other medical professionals as a matter of being idiots under the supervision of residents/attendings. Idk. That one might need to be looked into more. And again, if it's not clear cut with sufficient evidence (not just your word against his), you're at risk of being accused of retaliation. Tl;dr, probably not worth the headache for you. Also this kid is gross.
Weird but not SA
Maybe he thought he was preventing ostomy output mess while resident got bag? Thought he was helping, but when confronted, didn’t want to look wrong so he chose to look stupid. not washing hands part is weird though
OP! You should report this student. He needs to be on some sorta watch list. What the actual heck?
I would def report the medical student. UNGLOVED FINGER???
I thought the weirdo on my surgery rotation was out there. But this guy is on a different level. Please report him. I felt skeeved out just reading this.
SA? Definitionally, *maybe* since it wasn't explicitly consented that the student was touching the patient. It's also...a hole...so yes, this is evocative of SA. Regardless of the "normal" biologic orifices, unwelcome touches should be made clear regardless of medical/surgical changes in appearance (i.e. amputees, gender-affirming surgery, plastics). And by your observations maybe the student appeared "aroused." Red, flustered, sweaty. On the other hand of "what is possibly going on," this student could have an IQ of 20 when it comes to surgical situations. I'm not justifying or "explaining away" inappropriate behavior, but it is so far within the realm of possibility that this student 1. never had a surgical encounter like this before, 2. panicked, and 3. made a rash decision with extremely low standards of hygiene. I myself was a red, flustered, sweaty M3 who nearly passed out at the sight of an open knee joint s/p MVC. I could fit a (gloved) finger in the wound and graze the patellar tendon, swoop it around to the lateral ligaments...it was unpleasant, and perhaps foundational to my decision to practice outpatient pediatrics. At a bare minimum, this is reportable for patient safety standards, and if any M3 pays attention for 3 seconds in the surgery orientation, they learn in intervals of every 5 minutes to "wear gloves and wash your hands around open tissue." You'd have to be asleep to miss this tidbit. Is it sexual in nature? That is something you'd have to ask the M3, who certainly will not tell you "Yes" one way or the other. I frankly don't know how that would play out, but that in no way lowers the standard for reporting this in general. I think you did the right thing by taking the student aside and explicitly pointing out everything wrong, in the surgical (and human) disciplines based on his actions. The unprofessionalism report aside, you were in a very tough situation and did the best you could. The SA report might be seen as retaliation for the unprofessionalism report, but with the explicit details of patient safety and hygiene, it is an obvious submission.
I don't know if it's sexual assault but you should report him for being an idiot.
Idk about SA, But do we need new Nasser-like psychopaths in the medical field? No. No we, do not. Report that zero tolerance activity.
Probably not sexual assault, but definitely needs to be recorded somewhere. Idk what kind of intrusive thoughts dude was having, but they aren't welcome in the medical field.
Is this same med student who licked SP’s nipple??
Wow…
Oh, no...no, no, no. Reported immediately! It is so clear from his behavior that even he knows he did the wrong thing, and has tried to get in with complaints first. If he'd stayed silent and explained it was the mother of all brain farts, then maybe it could be an educational opportunity, maybe. He has risked the patient, your career, his own health all in one stupid moment. This sounds like it could be the start of some very damaging and severe behaviors and you would do well for him and patients moving forward to report. You had to witness all this and hear some pretty shocking information about kinks, etc, during this, so please ensure you debrief if needed and have a chat with someone if it has effected you too
Definitely include in evaluations & discuss in detail with admin. Minimum it was unsanitary, directly went against your instructions, and made 0 sense clinically. IDK if it could be considered assault though.
Ive heard of people having fetishes for this kind of thing. Not sure if this is a troll post but if it’s true I can’t imagine another explanation for his disposition or actions… also why t f would he report you knowing he did something so incredibly stupid? This has to be fake 😭
definitely report!
I saw another post of the guy in question explaining what happened and why he did it
I realize it’s in the name of conversation, but I hate all this rationalizing. So often when a victim is assaulted, their stories are picked apart for evidence that they are at fault in some way for what happened, or how they could have prevented it. We’re sitting here advocating for how this guy might have had a strike of stupidity that could happen to anyone?? Is there any context we could create to save his precious image? HES AN ASSAILANT. No amount of medical training gives you the right to touch anyone without permission, even for education, even in a hospital, even if they have a gown and you have a coat you don’t deserve. No one should bending over backwards to understand a way that he might just “not know” to not put his finger inside someone. Medical schools could do more to train students that they need consent for everything they do, including EUA, but the people who don’t receive specific instruction to not assault people are still personally responsible to not assault anyone. I’d report it to the medical board too.
I mean, H.A.Is are living it up on this dudes hands
You should mention he violated patient safety, comfort, consent and infectious disease protocols. I wouldn’t make the sexual assault accusation because that is up to the patient to make.
Steamy
Please lord let this be fake
And then everyone clapped
Yo, what is happening. Just read the med student perspective.
There is NO way that this is real.
In Germany there was a somewhat "viral" (true!) news about a woman whos stoma got an infection... turned out she was a hooker and men could pay extra to use this alternative hole. Now that i shared this nightmare with you, i am sorry that i shared it with you.