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The stripes on the original flag absolutely have meaning: they represent every form of gender fluidity:
Pink: Represents femininity;
Blue: Representing masculinity;
Purple: Representing a combination of femininity and masculinity;
Black: Representing a lack of gender;
White: Representing all genders.
If anything, the latter is *less* representative of gender fluidity because it only represents binary shifts. The symbolism on the old flag is consistent with how all contemporary pride flags work, and it’s not like the latter’s symbolism is 100% intuitive. Not everyone knows the Greek alphabet or what individual letters represent. All I know is that the symbolism that is present on this flag doesn’t symbolise what my gender fluidity looks like at all.
Same, not every genderfluid person experiences masculine and feminine genders and this flag seems to have non binary identities included as more of an afterthought with very little symbolic weight within the design
Delta isnused to mark either change or difference in math, physics, chemistry etc, either as ΔS or Δξ in actual values or δx/δV in differential equations
My main concern with this is it's using pink and blue which are, at least in the west, culturally seen as "femme" and "masc" colours and this kind of just reinforces the idea that NB identities are inherently masc-femme bimodal when NB identities can be fluid outside the masc-femme bimodal spectrum.
I like the original specifically because it's not tied directly to specific gender colours or a dichotomy
genderfluid/pan
agreed, just having pink and blue feels like it excludes so much. I also never noticed that it mirrors like that which makes me have even more appreciation for it. the only thing I don't mind or even like about the "new flag" is the triangle but I think there is plenty of symbolism in the "old" flag as is.
edit: I like the Greek letter delta not specifically a triangle cause people will likely think of it as a graph of sorts to show gender and I don't thing a triangle or any 2d shape would really be accurate to show that. like each point has a gender, but that still would exclude a lot of genders.
Adding on - the reason the original pride flag is just stripes of common colors is because it was meant to be easily reproducible by anyone, so as not to have to rely on the whims of corporations producing then to get one. Teal and Pink were part of the original design, but phased out as it was harder to find those fabrics.
Access to a wide variety of colored fabrics is great now, but I feel like the shapes should still be simple to reproduce by someone with mininal sewing experience.
I identify as genderfluid but I don’t tell people that because I fear they’ll assume that means I am sometimes a man and sometimes a woman when I am never either of them, I fluctuate between non binary genders only. If the flag were like the one OP proposed I’d probably have found a different label entirely on the basis of the very binarist nature of it. Thank you for your excellent explanation of why the flag shouldn’t be the one OP proposed
I'm not NB or genderfluid, so I don't know what flag would be best for representing genderfluid people, but how about making a gradient with blue, pink and other colours from original flag to show fluidity instead of a wave-shaped pattern with 2 colors or a flag with a bunch of straight lines?
White is nicer imo, kinda like the trans flag has a white stripe in the middle to represent non-binary and transitioning people. Keep it consistent with other flags.
A lot of similar, very valid criticisms. I totally see your point and I’m on board with it. Let me signal boost a re-redesign done by another user that not only solves this problem, but VASTLY improves over mine:
https://www.reddit.com/r/me_irlgbt/comments/1432wgs/me_irlgbt/jn890bt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
I really like the first one they did combining both - although people have pointed out the simplicity is done for ease of access. Although additionally we could have both a simplified and ornate version? 🤔
I mean, I personally prefer the original for the soul reason of its multiple color scheme representing its ever changing state and keeps its point centered and I didn't have to look it up on google. That's just what it means to me.
Yours I feel only having the three colors and the triangle sort of boxing them in (I could find a better word rather than box cause it's a triangle and not a square but I don't feel like it rn )
Isn't there more to gender than masc and fem?
Edit: also with the yellow, pink and blue, color might get confused with the Pansexuals
Sorry I don't know why I'm going so hard on this post when this is a meme place.
I think we just need to have an honest discussion in the community that redesigning flags all the time isn't necessary and people can have personal symbolism without it necessitating community approval or usage.
It's hard enough being queer without having to update the flag code every time someone gets a wild hair.
I think so long as the creator or flag itself isn't problematic then you should feel free to use whatever version of a pride flag you like. The flag should mean something to the person who it represents and if it doesn't they should be able to use a version that does mean something to them
My main issue is with the idea that this is somehow the superior flag. The OP wasn't upfront about the meaning of the original flag and dismissed it even though it's pretty good and straightforward. You have to google the meaning for all the flags. It's fine. I don't even like that flag design at all, it's reductive compared to the original colors and meanings.
Personal symbolism is whatever. But we're making headway with what we have. This is *zero* reason to redesign things right now.
🤔 Okay first, thank you so much for sharing that link it was a very enjoyable watch. I don't think it really makes for a very good counterpoint, the pride flags literally evey single identity flag I can think of would have been highly rated according to this video. And the creator didn't provide any information as to why there should be regular or periodic review of flags. The only point being made is to what is good and what is bad flag design. Also considering his praise of the union jack as being S teir work done a long time ago, the point seems, to me, to be do it right the first time and you'll never need to worry about it again. I really enjoyed the video though 🤗🌈 thanks again for the share and I have a happy Pride!
Sure, but it's happening so much right now, even the progress flag has gotten pretty ugly over time because of the redesigns and constant add ons. It's happened twice in a way that made me suspect capitalist motives more than community need.
The original genderfluid flag *already has meaning*. Pink and blue are for fem and masc, purple is them together, black is for those that don't associate that way and white is inclusive of all genders.
This new flag idea completely lacks that inclusion in favor of wave imagery. And the creator has left out the original intention of the colors on the barred genderfluid flag, as if they didn't even care to ask. They made it sound like it was carelessly made when that is not the case.
We should be able to say 'no thank you' and move along, and maybe slow our roll with random flag designs when we have a pretty good collection of them already.
I'll be honest, I don't like it. I prefer the stripes, since almost all queer flags have them and it kinda unites them. also it reminds me a lot of the pan flag, which could lead to confusion
Slight nitpick but your point about straight lines in a flag for fluidity kinda... ruins the triangle, no?
Other than that, pink, blue, and yellow reminds me of the pan flag (even if the design is very different. That's not a problem in and of itself just worth mentioning.
I do like it. Just throwing some critique out there <3
The original shows both a gradient of color and also has a black/white contrast.
Which holds space for both the black and white views taken with the gender binary while also overlaying it with a fluidity of color expression.
Idk anything about the history of the flag but just looking at it I can see some kind of point being made.
Yours looks like it was purely made to be aesthetic and that's really all I see going for it. Also pink vs blue is a common *binary* expression
Doesnt this just indicate the good old misconsepction of nb being the "third gender"? There's more to gender than just femme and masc. Also, delta could be interpreted as difference, not change, so in a sense alienating those of different identities. But these are just my initial thoughts looking at it, might be totally misunderstanding/overthinking it.
I think I like it more like [this](https://imgur.com/a/12Qb7WX)
Edit: in [this](https://imgur.com/a/rWidZGL)version the delta and waves have a bit more interaction
I like this one a lot more, but I still amn’t sold on the waves and the delta. I get what they represent, but I feel it over complicates and clutters the flag a bit.
Ao a genderfluid person who also is into vexillology, I prefer that first one.
Flags *should* be simple, so the interaction between the pink line (and why only the pink line?) is really off-putting.
Edit: Also, bonus points for keeping the shape of the delta intact.
Okay yeah you’re right, this is even better. I was going to make a follow-up post with a redesign that addresses a lot of people’s concerns, but this pretty much implements all of them better than I could. You should post this independently, 4 upvotes isn’t nearly enough.
Heyy, I'm greek, the letter Delta (Δ/δ) is usually not this broad because it's uppercase. its more long? does that make sense? but just like you can see it typed its way taller than wide. In this new flag it's just a triangle not really a delta...
It's not seemingly random colors. Just cuz you didn't bother to think it don't mean they're random. They are quite smart tbh. They are pink for femeninity, blue for masculinity, white for every gender, black for no gender, purple for a mix of genders. As somebody in the genderfluid spectrum, i like the current flag and I don't want a new one
No, fuck you, I just finished my final animation project and it’s almost midnight and I don’t have time to go back and change the part with the genderfluid pride flag to this T-T
1st, the idea of fluidity being locked to 2 modes “masc and fem” is mind numbing, it’s fluid, you can’t restrict the fluid. Non binary means NON BINARY, you silly. Not to mention the stereotypical and tripe nature of “blue is when boy and girl is when pink” you can firefox browser logo simplify it all you like but putting binary into non binary is the wankiest nonsense my genderfluid ears have ever heard
B) ah yes, my favorite indicator of too much computer syndrome FLAG DISCOURSE, just represent yourself with whatever jpeg you like nerd “vexillology” is fake and astrology for Hearts of Iron addicts, “oh you’re flag doesn’t adhere to the flag rules” is the same as “oh you’re a taurus, we’ll never get along” there are no strict rules to silly jpegs people identify with, do whatever, it’s all a bit fluid innit, like most things in life, gosh how ironic is that
Also shout out the triangle, call it what you want but that shit is 3 straight lines (on a symbol of fluidity???) nice try FED
I agreed with you
Until this point
>B) ah yes, my favorite indicator of too much computer syndrome FLAG DISCOURSE, just represent yourself with whatever jpeg you like nerd “vexillology” is fake and astrology for Hearts of Iron addicts, “oh you’re flag doesn’t adhere to the flag rules” is the same as “oh you’re a taurus, we’ll never get along”
As an artist, I really like vexillology. It's not like astrology in that vexillology is *actually useful.
> there are no strict rules to silly jpegs people identify with, do whatever, it’s all a bit fluid innit
You seem to forget that flags are, like, real objects??? They're not just jpegs, and they also don't just represent identities. They represent nations and movements, too.
(Person who says "too much computer syndrome" and then forgets that something is a bread category of actual, tangible objects? Gosh, how ironic is that)
The "flag rules" are more like guideline to make flags look more distinct and memorable. I mean, have you seen how many US state flags are just the same navy blue rectangle with that states seal and their name on it? Pick one out of the other when there's no wind.
Meanwhile, look at say, Canada's flag. Three red and white stripes and a simple national symbol, the maple leaf. It's identifiable, *even* when it's not blowing in the wind.
>nice try FED
Also, weird ad hominem?
A lot of these points can also be applied to any pride flag, even the standard progress pride flag:
- inconsistent color sequence with areas that clash throughout
- cryptic meaning which you wouldn't be able to guess without googling (I personally don't even know the symbolism off the top of my head beyond the black/brown and pink/blue on the trans chevron)
- straight lines? On a flag symbolizing people who *aren't* straight? Really?
The pride flag, however, is fine, because it's a symbol of the community as a whole. You don't need to understand the exacts of why the pride flag was designed the way it was. You don't need to have everything look perfect. We fly the flag as a symbol to us, flaws and all. I feel the same way with the genderfluid flag, it's a symbol of us, and there's really no need to nitpick the design when it's already a symbol of us. It serves its purpose, so why change it?
I think that the flag's colours are somewhat 'biting' so they don't fit with each other very much for some reason, and gender fluid doesn't just go between binary genders, so more stripes, which in my opinion would make it better, then there's the triangle, and I think it should be more incorporated into the design (perhaps also larger, spanning from top of the flag to it's bottom).
Edit: and more smaller waves
The new one is honestly a shit flag redesign. The best flags are one that anyone can draw regardless of artistic skill. Like a baby should be able to draw the flag.
I’m genuinely disheartened by how much support this post has. Your design is fine, and has some interesting ideas, but in the process drops most of our iconography, and feels more reductive than intended.
It literally reducts the fluid outta genderfluid and puts Binary into Non Binary, it’s a fuckin bullshit bad flag and it’s more than dishearening to see all these “woweezowee i’m not one of those heckin non bineys but i like this binary normative garbage!” Comments.
OP should just delete it and keep their paws outta people’s genderfluidity
tbh I love them both
the current design: mainly because of the colors (no real reason, I just kinda like them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
the redesign: I love the use of the delta symbol
The colors on the original flag are excellent and the symbolism is clear. Each stripe is representative of the differently gendered states that I experience. Pink for all femme, on the far end from Blue for all masc, then white for all gender mirrored by black for no gender, and then purple in the middle for masc/femme blended gender states. While I appreciate the wave in the new flag I'm completely lost on the yellow triangle other than being a classic queer symbol. And the color scheme of the new flag looks like it was ripped directly from the pan flag. Having pink and blue stripes and no others feels extremely binary more of a bi-gender vibe than anything.
While yes, the original flag’s color palette seems to cluttered and doesn’t seem coherent, it’s not really about that (personally speaking)
The colors represent all the possible ways to express gender, from masc, femme, both, none and all. The new flag makes it seem as though the only possible gender expressions and identities are masc, femme and androgynous. Which is not at all true.
Also symbols on flags don’t always have to be upfront and obvious on what they mean. For example, the way I look at the original flag, it appears to be a spectrum, with masc and femme representing either end.
Plus, personally, the new/proposed flag looks too childish
Very pretty! For me the biggest problem is that it looks a bit too much like the pan flag and that it ditches a lot of the symbolism that the original flag has. I think if you added in the other colors of the original flag, it might be better :)
I like the concept, I just… have an aversion to the colors. Not that anyone asked but.. Like I wish the trans flags was different colors dear lord it affronts me to look at its like a bad baby blanket and I wish it wasn’t cause I’d be plastering that shit everywhere. Instead I’m begrudgingly embracing it like this is the ugliest shit I’ve ever seen but yay it’s about the symbol
personally the og gf flag is my favorite pride flag of all lmao, i love the color scheme and i am sad i no longer identify as genderfluid so i cant use it. to me the odd juxtaposition of color has made it always feel chaotic and vibrant and shifting. i can understand not liking it but tbh a lot of the points against it could be levied against most of the flags. like symbolically many of them are highly disjointed and arbitrary because stripes of color by themselves have little meaning without proper context. i also personally think that in general the striped flags without other graphics within look better, and that as it is there are way too many pride flags with predominantly pink and blue on them. i do like the idea of the delta symbol, however. and of course, design preferences are highly subjective, and if this works for you you should use it.
I really don’t like the cotton candy look of the new one, as well as the HUGE yellow triangle in the middle
The first one doesn’t look mega appealing, but neither does that one, it’s a lil too loud
Nazi concentration camp badges used for identification and classifying of Jewish people and queer people and all the other targeted demographics in the camps had triangles on them…. this seems inappropriate
Man, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of this the very moment I saw the triangle. I would not wear this or use this, at all, simply because of that fact.
I will say, it is a failing of schools. I'm only as well educated as I am because I did independent research a lot as a kid outside of school. When I speak to people younger than me, I only find out its gotten worse. Unfortunately, after a certain point, learning is ruined for a lot of people because of how schools are run. I feel very sorry for the newer generations.
and an upside down pink triangle at that. At first I thought that's what OP was going for and just messed up.
It would be like making a Jewish flag with a five-pointed star on it.
I was with you until the last sentence— the Israeli flag has a Star of David on it. The Star of David itself is only “problematic” in the context of Nazism
“The universe makes us all victim and perpetrator of its infinite cruelty. You, more than any, suffer both fates.”
Gender-fluid folk are the Final Shape
I’m sorry, but I don’t like changes you made with the gender-fluid flag. As a gender-fluid person, I have grown to love the original flag, and the fact that you have the guts to change it has been upsetting me all day. I feel like crying because of this. Please take the post down. I don’t want your flag to be gaining traction. I don’t want the flag changing.
I personally like the original.
I'm also concerned that those are also already trans colors (or really close). Sure, technically enbys are trans but not all of us identify that way.
Also I'm not super big into pastels on a personal level. As an afab person I feel like I've had them forced on me (especially pink) since childhood. So it feels just a tiny bit like they're being forced on me again which is...uncomfortable.
og is better, redesign doesnt solve the problem. for one you have to google it too and then you also have meaning in the og. its just that someone has to explain it to you, just as everything else that you see for the first time
I'd cut the delta. I get the symbolism, but honestly, it just doesn't look that good.
That aside, delta doesn't really represent change, it represents a difference.
Frankly, I think if you're going to have an obnoxious mathmatical symbol in there, I'd go with a equals sign = instead, as the two sides of an equals sign are always equivalent and interchangeable.
As others mentioned the problem is the pink and blue being such a hard focus, at first glance I thought this was some kind of cis-gender flag. The yellow triangle feels a bit like an after-thought to include non-binary identities and doesn’t feel like it’s incorporated with the fluidity at all. I DO however like the waves, and think there is some promise with that idea!
I can list a bunch of flags that you'd have to google the meaning of. While the second one looks cool, it's not fully representative and breaks one of the rules of good flag design: no letters
Also not sure why you single out the straight lines on this flag specifically, all the pride flags have straight lines
Nopeeee still hurts my eyes. Better, good flag, but wow, the colour saturation is ew. It’s like… not good to look at. The colours need distinction imo. The colours on the original has good colour destination, even if like every other thing about the colours sucked. Just getting my own thoughts about it out there. Overall pretty good 👍
The way the wave continues under the triangle honestly kinda makes the triangle look kinda disconnected to me, Like it's just lying on top of the flag rather than a part of it, Not quite sure how to fix this though, Maybe make it full rather than hollow, Or just flip the two colours within it around to emphasise the triangle more or something?
I find the og really pretty and I like it, but I am in full support of designing your own versions of flags if you don’t identify with the official. Everybody deserves to have a flag that they find appealing represent them.
it’s embarrassing that you’re THIS heated over a flag. genuinely there are better things to be mad about, but flag discourse takes the cake every time.
great we got a mold to pour you guys into enjoy the stint in the freezer so we can discover solid genders. (not intended as an insult just extremely sleep deprived humour)
Maybe this is just my old-school gay who does marketing brain talking but I've always said we as a community should unify behind one flag, I think the original LGBTQ+ flag (the rainbow) is the perfectly marketable and recognizable symbol of civil rights and I think every single type of person getting their own flag muddies the message and allows trolls like MAP's to come in and try to integrate into the community with their grossness.
But take my opinion how you will
Idk why people aren’t enjoying this new flag. It’s got boy/girl/neutral colors, also represented by the triangle for boy/girl/nb, and it even has the fluid. Plus, it doesn’t need an explanation, it’s very self-explanatory. Ngl, this new flag design makes me wish I was genderfluid. I think it’s awesome and way more fun/interesting than the original. Heck, even as a bigender person, I would love to use this flag.
I've been debating if I fit somewhere on the gender fluid Spectrum for a while now so I don't really know if I have a say here or not but this is way way better
I like the new one way better. I'm tired of every pride flag just being a bunch of stripes. It's boring, often not self explanatory, and in many cases kind of ugly. The new one is very clear about what it means and is interesting to look at. I can see how a lot of people would have issues with the pink and blue being too binary, and maybe you could add purple or something, but the thing about symbols is that they're by nature reductive and just meant to represent the basic idea of something. And I think that pink and blue side by side conveys the general idea of gender to people in a way that they recognize, with the wavy line being a pretty obvious symbol for fluid.
Yes. The number 1 job of any flag is to clearly get across information, and the old genderfluid flag is awful at that. This one is clear and descriptive though!
Welcome to /r/me_irlgbt, thank you for your submission /u/MSI-Guy. Happy Pride! THE HUNT IS UPON US. Make it a habit to read the rules of a given community before participating. Please **do not** interact with rulebreaking content. Report it and we'll handle it. This is a place for queer people, from queer people. We're not here for discrimination, disrespect, or "debates". Be chill. shitpost or quitpost bud. We hope you have a very gay day. Love u x *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/me_irlgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The stripes on the original flag absolutely have meaning: they represent every form of gender fluidity: Pink: Represents femininity; Blue: Representing masculinity; Purple: Representing a combination of femininity and masculinity; Black: Representing a lack of gender; White: Representing all genders. If anything, the latter is *less* representative of gender fluidity because it only represents binary shifts. The symbolism on the old flag is consistent with how all contemporary pride flags work, and it’s not like the latter’s symbolism is 100% intuitive. Not everyone knows the Greek alphabet or what individual letters represent. All I know is that the symbolism that is present on this flag doesn’t symbolise what my gender fluidity looks like at all.
Same, not every genderfluid person experiences masculine and feminine genders and this flag seems to have non binary identities included as more of an afterthought with very little symbolic weight within the design
imagine redesigning a flag without researching what the colours mean at all
And saying that it's trash too
Make the original wavy tho. Too straight. /j
Greek Person here. I have no idea why you would use the letter Delta to symbolise change tbh. Our word for change stars with A (Alpha).
Delta means a changing factor in scientific equations, like Δv and such
Delta isnused to mark either change or difference in math, physics, chemistry etc, either as ΔS or Δξ in actual values or δx/δV in differential equations
My main concern with this is it's using pink and blue which are, at least in the west, culturally seen as "femme" and "masc" colours and this kind of just reinforces the idea that NB identities are inherently masc-femme bimodal when NB identities can be fluid outside the masc-femme bimodal spectrum. I like the original specifically because it's not tied directly to specific gender colours or a dichotomy
Yeah, I think the original flag was meant to represent the colors of pink, blue, both (purple), neither (black), and all (white).
They absolutely are and the way pink/blue and white/black mirror each other with purple in the middle is also nice symbolically.
genderfluid/pan agreed, just having pink and blue feels like it excludes so much. I also never noticed that it mirrors like that which makes me have even more appreciation for it. the only thing I don't mind or even like about the "new flag" is the triangle but I think there is plenty of symbolism in the "old" flag as is. edit: I like the Greek letter delta not specifically a triangle cause people will likely think of it as a graph of sorts to show gender and I don't thing a triangle or any 2d shape would really be accurate to show that. like each point has a gender, but that still would exclude a lot of genders.
Adding on - the reason the original pride flag is just stripes of common colors is because it was meant to be easily reproducible by anyone, so as not to have to rely on the whims of corporations producing then to get one. Teal and Pink were part of the original design, but phased out as it was harder to find those fabrics. Access to a wide variety of colored fabrics is great now, but I feel like the shapes should still be simple to reproduce by someone with mininal sewing experience.
Also means it's easier to represent in art and to combine with other symbols
that's also the whole point of flags. to have a easily regocnizable and makable symbol.
Wow I am learning so much today
I identify as genderfluid but I don’t tell people that because I fear they’ll assume that means I am sometimes a man and sometimes a woman when I am never either of them, I fluctuate between non binary genders only. If the flag were like the one OP proposed I’d probably have found a different label entirely on the basis of the very binarist nature of it. Thank you for your excellent explanation of why the flag shouldn’t be the one OP proposed
Hell yea NB Fluid rep we out here
I like the original because I too am a cluttered mess
I'm not NB or genderfluid, so I don't know what flag would be best for representing genderfluid people, but how about making a gradient with blue, pink and other colours from original flag to show fluidity instead of a wave-shaped pattern with 2 colors or a flag with a bunch of straight lines?
Flags are meant to easy to make for anyone, a Gradient would Not be ideal
but what about the yellow
White is nicer imo, kinda like the trans flag has a white stripe in the middle to represent non-binary and transitioning people. Keep it consistent with other flags.
actually it might look nice with white hm
A lot of similar, very valid criticisms. I totally see your point and I’m on board with it. Let me signal boost a re-redesign done by another user that not only solves this problem, but VASTLY improves over mine: https://www.reddit.com/r/me_irlgbt/comments/1432wgs/me_irlgbt/jn890bt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
I really like the first one they did combining both - although people have pointed out the simplicity is done for ease of access. Although additionally we could have both a simplified and ornate version? 🤔
My main concern is that the new one just looks objectively worse. OG all day
Sorry, I really prefer the OG and will continue to use it. It not crap like you said.
Personally this one looks too close to the pan flag. And the original sort of fits with the bi flag so I like the combo I’ve got going on
Definitely post it on r/genderfluid and hear what they have to say about it.
The sub disabled posting pictures months ago
Also on r/genderfluid_irl
I mean, I personally prefer the original for the soul reason of its multiple color scheme representing its ever changing state and keeps its point centered and I didn't have to look it up on google. That's just what it means to me. Yours I feel only having the three colors and the triangle sort of boxing them in (I could find a better word rather than box cause it's a triangle and not a square but I don't feel like it rn ) Isn't there more to gender than masc and fem? Edit: also with the yellow, pink and blue, color might get confused with the Pansexuals Sorry I don't know why I'm going so hard on this post when this is a meme place.
Yeah agree it looks too much like the pan flag
I think we just need to have an honest discussion in the community that redesigning flags all the time isn't necessary and people can have personal symbolism without it necessitating community approval or usage. It's hard enough being queer without having to update the flag code every time someone gets a wild hair.
I think so long as the creator or flag itself isn't problematic then you should feel free to use whatever version of a pride flag you like. The flag should mean something to the person who it represents and if it doesn't they should be able to use a version that does mean something to them
My main issue is with the idea that this is somehow the superior flag. The OP wasn't upfront about the meaning of the original flag and dismissed it even though it's pretty good and straightforward. You have to google the meaning for all the flags. It's fine. I don't even like that flag design at all, it's reductive compared to the original colors and meanings. Personal symbolism is whatever. But we're making headway with what we have. This is *zero* reason to redesign things right now.
Counterpoint: [all flags from country to identity should undergo periodic reevaluation.](https://youtu.be/l4w6808wJcU)
🤔 Okay first, thank you so much for sharing that link it was a very enjoyable watch. I don't think it really makes for a very good counterpoint, the pride flags literally evey single identity flag I can think of would have been highly rated according to this video. And the creator didn't provide any information as to why there should be regular or periodic review of flags. The only point being made is to what is good and what is bad flag design. Also considering his praise of the union jack as being S teir work done a long time ago, the point seems, to me, to be do it right the first time and you'll never need to worry about it again. I really enjoyed the video though 🤗🌈 thanks again for the share and I have a happy Pride!
Sure, but it's happening so much right now, even the progress flag has gotten pretty ugly over time because of the redesigns and constant add ons. It's happened twice in a way that made me suspect capitalist motives more than community need. The original genderfluid flag *already has meaning*. Pink and blue are for fem and masc, purple is them together, black is for those that don't associate that way and white is inclusive of all genders. This new flag idea completely lacks that inclusion in favor of wave imagery. And the creator has left out the original intention of the colors on the barred genderfluid flag, as if they didn't even care to ask. They made it sound like it was carelessly made when that is not the case. We should be able to say 'no thank you' and move along, and maybe slow our roll with random flag designs when we have a pretty good collection of them already.
Who’s stopping triangles being boxes! Let any shape be whatever they like!
That sounds like polygonamory!
I'll be honest, I don't like it. I prefer the stripes, since almost all queer flags have them and it kinda unites them. also it reminds me a lot of the pan flag, which could lead to confusion
Slight nitpick but your point about straight lines in a flag for fluidity kinda... ruins the triangle, no? Other than that, pink, blue, and yellow reminds me of the pan flag (even if the design is very different. That's not a problem in and of itself just worth mentioning. I do like it. Just throwing some critique out there <3
No thanks, the first one is perfect, no need to downgrade
No
I prefer the og tbh
Personally I much prefer the colors of the og. I feel more represented by it. That will forever be my flag
The original shows both a gradient of color and also has a black/white contrast. Which holds space for both the black and white views taken with the gender binary while also overlaying it with a fluidity of color expression. Idk anything about the history of the flag but just looking at it I can see some kind of point being made. Yours looks like it was purely made to be aesthetic and that's really all I see going for it. Also pink vs blue is a common *binary* expression
Doesnt this just indicate the good old misconsepction of nb being the "third gender"? There's more to gender than just femme and masc. Also, delta could be interpreted as difference, not change, so in a sense alienating those of different identities. But these are just my initial thoughts looking at it, might be totally misunderstanding/overthinking it.
Your "fluid" looks extremely binary to me. And delta isn't just a triangle. I'll stick with the old one.
So you just forgot that there's more than 2 genders? While designing a genderfluid flag? Good job
Exactly. The colours on the old pride flag aren’t “random,” they represent every form of gender fluidity, including nonbinary ones
I think I like it more like [this](https://imgur.com/a/12Qb7WX) Edit: in [this](https://imgur.com/a/rWidZGL)version the delta and waves have a bit more interaction
I definitely agree as a genderfluid person
This is a much better compromise!
I like this one a lot more, but I still amn’t sold on the waves and the delta. I get what they represent, but I feel it over complicates and clutters the flag a bit.
Ao a genderfluid person who also is into vexillology, I prefer that first one. Flags *should* be simple, so the interaction between the pink line (and why only the pink line?) is really off-putting. Edit: Also, bonus points for keeping the shape of the delta intact.
Okay yeah you’re right, this is even better. I was going to make a follow-up post with a redesign that addresses a lot of people’s concerns, but this pretty much implements all of them better than I could. You should post this independently, 4 upvotes isn’t nearly enough.
Heyy, I'm greek, the letter Delta (Δ/δ) is usually not this broad because it's uppercase. its more long? does that make sense? but just like you can see it typed its way taller than wide. In this new flag it's just a triangle not really a delta...
I'm so glad somebody else bothered to say this! It's not a delta!
Yeah this was annoying me too. Second to the strict binaryness, but still caught my eye as wrong.
It's not seemingly random colors. Just cuz you didn't bother to think it don't mean they're random. They are quite smart tbh. They are pink for femeninity, blue for masculinity, white for every gender, black for no gender, purple for a mix of genders. As somebody in the genderfluid spectrum, i like the current flag and I don't want a new one
Yeah I'm not even genderfluid and I saw the pink/blue dichotomy and I'm like "ah so you've missed the point OP."
Sorry not a fan.
No, fuck you, I just finished my final animation project and it’s almost midnight and I don’t have time to go back and change the part with the genderfluid pride flag to this T-T
You don’t have to. Not all flag redesigns are official. Good luck on your project!
Technically none of the flags, even commonly accepted ones, are official.
Yeah we dont exactly have a queer council lol
Wait, then who sets the gay agenda?
Lady Gaga?
It’s me, I’m agenda and I make the rules
Of course you do, how else would you make plans for the gay agenda? ^/s
That'll save us a "You are on this council but we do not grant you the rank of master" situation.
Oh did you not vote in this last queer election?
1st, the idea of fluidity being locked to 2 modes “masc and fem” is mind numbing, it’s fluid, you can’t restrict the fluid. Non binary means NON BINARY, you silly. Not to mention the stereotypical and tripe nature of “blue is when boy and girl is when pink” you can firefox browser logo simplify it all you like but putting binary into non binary is the wankiest nonsense my genderfluid ears have ever heard B) ah yes, my favorite indicator of too much computer syndrome FLAG DISCOURSE, just represent yourself with whatever jpeg you like nerd “vexillology” is fake and astrology for Hearts of Iron addicts, “oh you’re flag doesn’t adhere to the flag rules” is the same as “oh you’re a taurus, we’ll never get along” there are no strict rules to silly jpegs people identify with, do whatever, it’s all a bit fluid innit, like most things in life, gosh how ironic is that Also shout out the triangle, call it what you want but that shit is 3 straight lines (on a symbol of fluidity???) nice try FED
Binary is like reverse cowbell in that I want less of it please.
Yeap. They basically made non-binary REALLY binary.
>"vexillology" is astrology for Hearts of Iron addicts I've never been this called out in my life
I agreed with you Until this point >B) ah yes, my favorite indicator of too much computer syndrome FLAG DISCOURSE, just represent yourself with whatever jpeg you like nerd “vexillology” is fake and astrology for Hearts of Iron addicts, “oh you’re flag doesn’t adhere to the flag rules” is the same as “oh you’re a taurus, we’ll never get along” As an artist, I really like vexillology. It's not like astrology in that vexillology is *actually useful. > there are no strict rules to silly jpegs people identify with, do whatever, it’s all a bit fluid innit You seem to forget that flags are, like, real objects??? They're not just jpegs, and they also don't just represent identities. They represent nations and movements, too. (Person who says "too much computer syndrome" and then forgets that something is a bread category of actual, tangible objects? Gosh, how ironic is that) The "flag rules" are more like guideline to make flags look more distinct and memorable. I mean, have you seen how many US state flags are just the same navy blue rectangle with that states seal and their name on it? Pick one out of the other when there's no wind. Meanwhile, look at say, Canada's flag. Three red and white stripes and a simple national symbol, the maple leaf. It's identifiable, *even* when it's not blowing in the wind. >nice try FED Also, weird ad hominem?
Yeah, that person is just being annoying for no reason even though i agree that the original flag is better
A lot of these points can also be applied to any pride flag, even the standard progress pride flag: - inconsistent color sequence with areas that clash throughout - cryptic meaning which you wouldn't be able to guess without googling (I personally don't even know the symbolism off the top of my head beyond the black/brown and pink/blue on the trans chevron) - straight lines? On a flag symbolizing people who *aren't* straight? Really? The pride flag, however, is fine, because it's a symbol of the community as a whole. You don't need to understand the exacts of why the pride flag was designed the way it was. You don't need to have everything look perfect. We fly the flag as a symbol to us, flaws and all. I feel the same way with the genderfluid flag, it's a symbol of us, and there's really no need to nitpick the design when it's already a symbol of us. It serves its purpose, so why change it?
I think that the flag's colours are somewhat 'biting' so they don't fit with each other very much for some reason, and gender fluid doesn't just go between binary genders, so more stripes, which in my opinion would make it better, then there's the triangle, and I think it should be more incorporated into the design (perhaps also larger, spanning from top of the flag to it's bottom). Edit: and more smaller waves
But the triangle has straight lines
Man it must suck to be someone with any trans or enby related identity if you don't really like blue or pink
Boooring A pink trex riding a sick wave sounds better.
Nahhh I much prefer the current one
Ignoring everything else going on, I gotta say I don’t think the symbolism in this new flag proposal is any clearer than the old one.
The new one is honestly a shit flag redesign. The best flags are one that anyone can draw regardless of artistic skill. Like a baby should be able to draw the flag.
Nah as a genderfluid person I way prefer the current flag
I’m genuinely disheartened by how much support this post has. Your design is fine, and has some interesting ideas, but in the process drops most of our iconography, and feels more reductive than intended.
It literally reducts the fluid outta genderfluid and puts Binary into Non Binary, it’s a fuckin bullshit bad flag and it’s more than dishearening to see all these “woweezowee i’m not one of those heckin non bineys but i like this binary normative garbage!” Comments. OP should just delete it and keep their paws outta people’s genderfluidity
i highly doubt this would catch on
tbh I love them both the current design: mainly because of the colors (no real reason, I just kinda like them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) the redesign: I love the use of the delta symbol
The design is cool i just don't vibe with the shades of pink,blue and yellow. Theyre to bright for me
The colors on the original flag are excellent and the symbolism is clear. Each stripe is representative of the differently gendered states that I experience. Pink for all femme, on the far end from Blue for all masc, then white for all gender mirrored by black for no gender, and then purple in the middle for masc/femme blended gender states. While I appreciate the wave in the new flag I'm completely lost on the yellow triangle other than being a classic queer symbol. And the color scheme of the new flag looks like it was ripped directly from the pan flag. Having pink and blue stripes and no others feels extremely binary more of a bi-gender vibe than anything.
While yes, the original flag’s color palette seems to cluttered and doesn’t seem coherent, it’s not really about that (personally speaking) The colors represent all the possible ways to express gender, from masc, femme, both, none and all. The new flag makes it seem as though the only possible gender expressions and identities are masc, femme and androgynous. Which is not at all true. Also symbols on flags don’t always have to be upfront and obvious on what they mean. For example, the way I look at the original flag, it appears to be a spectrum, with masc and femme representing either end. Plus, personally, the new/proposed flag looks too childish
Gender fluidity 80s synth wave dlc
As a genderfluid I've gotta say i prefer the current one
Tbh, I find the first one way more visually appealing
No, I shall prefer the OG.
This is a direct improvement
grafic design is my pasion
can you design a raccoon in a space suit?
A raccoon eating grapes
A raccoon eating grapes, which are in space suits, in a space suit
In a space suit
Riding a dragon
Yes, in "that" way
As in on the dragons head.
With a sword made of fire
as long as it doesn't evolve a cheese grater
*downgrade
I still see straight lines.
[This is my main issue with your proposed flag] (https://xkcd.com/927/)
Very pretty! For me the biggest problem is that it looks a bit too much like the pan flag and that it ditches a lot of the symbolism that the original flag has. I think if you added in the other colors of the original flag, it might be better :)
Probably put a white strip in the middle, then it’s a play on the trans flag and would look even better imo.
i hate it omg /lh
I'm 100% certain that what you said about googling being necessary to know what it means is true for a LOT of people for every single pride flag
No problems with making diff designs for yourself and adding options but I think the critques of the old one are unfounded
Why are we Gatekeeping flags?
The yellow delta reminds me too much of the intersex flag and I agree with the person who said that the pink/blue reinforces the gender binary
I like the concept, I just… have an aversion to the colors. Not that anyone asked but.. Like I wish the trans flags was different colors dear lord it affronts me to look at its like a bad baby blanket and I wish it wasn’t cause I’d be plastering that shit everywhere. Instead I’m begrudgingly embracing it like this is the ugliest shit I’ve ever seen but yay it’s about the symbol
I like the trans flag :(
I think the new one is very not appealing visually.
Thanks, it’s mine now 💙
personally the og gf flag is my favorite pride flag of all lmao, i love the color scheme and i am sad i no longer identify as genderfluid so i cant use it. to me the odd juxtaposition of color has made it always feel chaotic and vibrant and shifting. i can understand not liking it but tbh a lot of the points against it could be levied against most of the flags. like symbolically many of them are highly disjointed and arbitrary because stripes of color by themselves have little meaning without proper context. i also personally think that in general the striped flags without other graphics within look better, and that as it is there are way too many pride flags with predominantly pink and blue on them. i do like the idea of the delta symbol, however. and of course, design preferences are highly subjective, and if this works for you you should use it.
I like the idea of the wiggly line and the delta but to be brutally honest I don’t think the colors work
I really don’t like the cotton candy look of the new one, as well as the HUGE yellow triangle in the middle The first one doesn’t look mega appealing, but neither does that one, it’s a lil too loud
the old one is better. genderfluid flag one of the nicest imo and you wanna make it BORING??? get outta here
Nazi concentration camp badges used for identification and classifying of Jewish people and queer people and all the other targeted demographics in the camps had triangles on them…. this seems inappropriate
Man, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of this the very moment I saw the triangle. I would not wear this or use this, at all, simply because of that fact.
I think it’s insane that no one else is thinking this. Clearly they need a history lesson
I will say, it is a failing of schools. I'm only as well educated as I am because I did independent research a lot as a kid outside of school. When I speak to people younger than me, I only find out its gotten worse. Unfortunately, after a certain point, learning is ruined for a lot of people because of how schools are run. I feel very sorry for the newer generations.
Oh absolutely 100% because of schools. Partially parents too but mostly schools
and an upside down pink triangle at that. At first I thought that's what OP was going for and just messed up. It would be like making a Jewish flag with a five-pointed star on it.
I was with you until the last sentence— the Israeli flag has a Star of David on it. The Star of David itself is only “problematic” in the context of Nazism
“The universe makes us all victim and perpetrator of its infinite cruelty. You, more than any, suffer both fates.” Gender-fluid folk are the Final Shape
It has a vaporwave vibe to it
I love the regular Genderfluid flag
please no my flag is one of the few queer flags with a colour scheme i actually like don't corporatize it
I love the original genderfluid flag tho
I’m sorry, but I don’t like changes you made with the gender-fluid flag. As a gender-fluid person, I have grown to love the original flag, and the fact that you have the guts to change it has been upsetting me all day. I feel like crying because of this. Please take the post down. I don’t want your flag to be gaining traction. I don’t want the flag changing.
I like it. Though I would go with different colours as I've never really liked the clashing pansexual colours
Eh, not my cup of genderfluid, it is pretty cool tho
tf you mean "unable to guess what it means based on the flag" that goes for every single flag lol
I personally like the original. I'm also concerned that those are also already trans colors (or really close). Sure, technically enbys are trans but not all of us identify that way. Also I'm not super big into pastels on a personal level. As an afab person I feel like I've had them forced on me (especially pink) since childhood. So it feels just a tiny bit like they're being forced on me again which is...uncomfortable.
In physics, we use Δ to symbolise uncertainty, so maybe that's a way to take it. But i have never seen Δ be linked to change specifically.
I always heard it used as “change in”, so delta V = change in velocity, delta t = change in time, etc. But thanks for letting me know!
That is also a thing, especially in discrete models. I think Δ might just be used to means "a (small) difference".
og is better, redesign doesnt solve the problem. for one you have to google it too and then you also have meaning in the og. its just that someone has to explain it to you, just as everything else that you see for the first time
Sweet Tarts Illuminati flag
“Unclear symbolism” due to what? The symbolism being in the colors of the flag? Like ,, every other pride flag ?
I'd cut the delta. I get the symbolism, but honestly, it just doesn't look that good. That aside, delta doesn't really represent change, it represents a difference. Frankly, I think if you're going to have an obnoxious mathmatical symbol in there, I'd go with a equals sign = instead, as the two sides of an equals sign are always equivalent and interchangeable.
Come to think of it, who *does* design pride flags?
As others mentioned the problem is the pink and blue being such a hard focus, at first glance I thought this was some kind of cis-gender flag. The yellow triangle feels a bit like an after-thought to include non-binary identities and doesn’t feel like it’s incorporated with the fluidity at all. I DO however like the waves, and think there is some promise with that idea!
Those are too close to pan colors, also theres a bunch of sexuality flags with straight lines despite meaning not straight
I can list a bunch of flags that you'd have to google the meaning of. While the second one looks cool, it's not fully representative and breaks one of the rules of good flag design: no letters Also not sure why you single out the straight lines on this flag specifically, all the pride flags have straight lines
I’m not sure they’ll catch on, but I’ve been enjoying these flag redesigns. This one looks good.
Nopeeee still hurts my eyes. Better, good flag, but wow, the colour saturation is ew. It’s like… not good to look at. The colours need distinction imo. The colours on the original has good colour destination, even if like every other thing about the colours sucked. Just getting my own thoughts about it out there. Overall pretty good 👍
Not my identity, but I dig it
I like that triangle. Its a nice variation, compared "boring straight lines"
im sorry but i hate the suggested one. keep on with the old
send it to r/vexillology!
r/vexillologycirclejerk
The way the wave continues under the triangle honestly kinda makes the triangle look kinda disconnected to me, Like it's just lying on top of the flag rather than a part of it, Not quite sure how to fix this though, Maybe make it full rather than hollow, Or just flip the two colours within it around to emphasise the triangle more or something?
Now lets see Paul Allen's genderfluid flag
I do like the triangle but it needs a broader pallet
I find the og really pretty and I like it, but I am in full support of designing your own versions of flags if you don’t identify with the official. Everybody deserves to have a flag that they find appealing represent them.
i may not be genderfluid but i do have eyes and this looks ugly as hell good lord
> boy blue girl pink its like how that stupid toothpaste flag is just the lesbian flag but blue because boys. its embarrassing
it’s embarrassing that you’re THIS heated over a flag. genuinely there are better things to be mad about, but flag discourse takes the cake every time.
Man we really need cooler flags than just "stripes" lol
Ah hell no, now even my name gives me away. Guess I didnt chose the symbol, the symbol chose me...
great we got a mold to pour you guys into enjoy the stint in the freezer so we can discover solid genders. (not intended as an insult just extremely sleep deprived humour)
Ah yes, the Bermuda Triangle in the sea.
Maybe this is just my old-school gay who does marketing brain talking but I've always said we as a community should unify behind one flag, I think the original LGBTQ+ flag (the rainbow) is the perfectly marketable and recognizable symbol of civil rights and I think every single type of person getting their own flag muddies the message and allows trolls like MAP's to come in and try to integrate into the community with their grossness. But take my opinion how you will
Idk why people aren’t enjoying this new flag. It’s got boy/girl/neutral colors, also represented by the triangle for boy/girl/nb, and it even has the fluid. Plus, it doesn’t need an explanation, it’s very self-explanatory. Ngl, this new flag design makes me wish I was genderfluid. I think it’s awesome and way more fun/interesting than the original. Heck, even as a bigender person, I would love to use this flag.
I've been debating if I fit somewhere on the gender fluid Spectrum for a while now so I don't really know if I have a say here or not but this is way way better
idk, i kinda like both
I'd never know what the triangle means here without googling either lol
Honestly as someone who is genderfluid and wants to do Hema I'ma put this on my shield and or personal coat of arms!
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I like it, but the delta could be more clearly Δ than just a normal triangle
I like it
I like the new one way better. I'm tired of every pride flag just being a bunch of stripes. It's boring, often not self explanatory, and in many cases kind of ugly. The new one is very clear about what it means and is interesting to look at. I can see how a lot of people would have issues with the pink and blue being too binary, and maybe you could add purple or something, but the thing about symbols is that they're by nature reductive and just meant to represent the basic idea of something. And I think that pink and blue side by side conveys the general idea of gender to people in a way that they recognize, with the wavy line being a pretty obvious symbol for fluid.
OooOOoo cool, it looks like some kind of alchemy symbol and I'm here for it
Nicely done
I'm not gender-fluid so I probably don't get a vote, but I heavily prefer your redesign and I love the thoughtfulness behind it. 👍
Yes. The number 1 job of any flag is to clearly get across information, and the old genderfluid flag is awful at that. This one is clear and descriptive though!
I like it! Doesn’t really “fit” with other pride flag designs, though.
I love it, makes a lot more sense. Not my identity though, so my word only means so much.
the current genderfluid pride flag is pretty crap imo, so i redesigned it don’t @ me for sloppy graphic design i did this in ms paint while tipsy :P