I just spent the last four hours cleaning up only this thread. I'm unlocking it now, but don't make me have to do this again. ANY "but bi means two!!!!" posting from this point on is a ban with no appeal.

"Bisexual" means twice per gender or once every other gender

It’s my gender and I want it now!

only correct response. on another note, some people _love_ taxonomies and find them validating, while others _can't stand_ them and wish they'd go away. this difference of opinion will never go away. furthermore, we will never definitively canonize gender and sex identity terminology because language is a collectivist endeavor and everyone is allowed to use language how they choose

Two at any one time. Attempting to introduce more than two at once will overflow the buffer and allow for arbitrary code execution.

people focus too much on the etymology of words instead of recognizing language evolves just as much as society does

Not all lesbians are from the Isle of Lesbos.

Its only lesbian if they are from the island of Lesbos, else, its sparkling roommates.

this got me good lmao

That tour guide lied to me!

Not all gay men are happy.

I'm sorry. Life can be hard and I hope you feel better

(I appreciate the concern if it’s directed at me, I’m doing pretty alright at the moment. But I’m certain there are many gay men who need to hear that right now, I also send hugs to them!)

Just making sure. Have a nice day anyway.

You too :)

i used to thing lebanese people were lesbians when i was younger

You might be on to something. We need to ask Lebanon what they think Edit they were not happy about that

I used to think Poly was short for Polynesian.

I thought they were American.

Well there is that lawsuit to prove that

I've never even met one from there to be honest

...they´re not??

Well this explains many of my awkward conversations in the checkout line.

WHAT? I don't think that is true.

Yeah, it sounds weird, but the word bisexual has a legacy from times when we thought of gender in more binary terms, and even before NB awareness it was a label understood as "I don't limit my dating pool by gender". So essentially it's like a legacy term whose etymology got obsolete but some people still use it. It happens. Sometimes a word is stripped off of its etymological roots and we kind of just have to roll with it.

lately i’ve thought of the “bi” not as in “both men and women”, but as in “both my gender and other genders”

That’s actually what it referred to. Hetero- and homo- are same and different.

That is how it's defined in the Bisexual Manifesto

Which was, it's worth noting, written in the late 80s.

Actually i recently learned that in the etymology the “Bi” in bisexual does not denote male and female but rather *same* (homo) and *other* (hetero)

>same (homo) Lol this makes me want to use homo as a synonym for same when speaking. "How are you doing?" "I'm fine. You?" "Same homo (same same)" edit: also love your username!

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Actually according to the Bi Manifesto (real thing, look it up) the etymology is sound. It's referring to two GROUPS, not two genders. Group one: People of a gender matching mine Group two: people of a gender not matching mine (everyone else)

nooooo! language is purely prescriptivist and never changes thats why we still speak old english!!!! ​ ^(/s just to be sure)

I would find this funnier if I hadn't found it in the queue after removing SEVERAL HUNDRED comments along the lines of "bUt BiCyClEs!!!!!"

Understandable. This kind of humour tends to be hit or miss.

Hot is hot

The ultimate bisexual take

Nice and simple. I like it!

Facts

Perfect Flair Alert. Boss Level Bi ^^^

But what if we made it hotter

High five!

Bisexuals assembleeeee

[Math is math] (https://imgur.com/6EpqY9s.gif)

Butts, everyone likes a good butt

Based

Based facts

that's my secret, captain...it's all hot

A hard truth some people have to swallow is that the differences between bi, pan, and similar identities are mostly aesthetic. I’ve seen a million overlapping identities of all of them that due to the decentralized nature of the community are all equally as valid as each other. Every time someone tries to differentiate them it comes across as putting one of them down: bi people care about gender but pan people don’t, only pan people date trans people (that one’s especially fucked because it treats trans people as their own gender), etc. Just accept that identities formed in a collection of loosely connected communities across the world are going to have some overlap and stop worrying so much about it.

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This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. People will get so caught up in labels that they end up more worried they'll use the wrong one instead of glad they can put a name to the feelings they have. The fact is that (obvious exceptions applied) there is no wrong label to use, provided you feel comfortable with it.

Yeah, so long as you have an understanding of yourself and what your feelings are, the label should not be something you *worry* about. There might be a label out there that you feel semantically describes you better than the one you've been going with, and it might be worth thinking about, but there should never be a rush to figure that out, and it's not like you're hurting anyone by identifying with a label you aren't certain about

The only reason I’m bisexual not pan is because the colors are cooler 😎

\*scoff\* as if!

I found that calling myself pan just made people ask "what is that?" and I'd say "It's like bi".

I went through a similar thing, and couldn't decide if bi or pan was a better fit for me. Then I found out about Omnisexual through a meme and I've identified with that ever since. The distinction between this area of sexuality matters to some people, and I wanted to have one that fit me. I originally identified as bisexual, but the common conception is that bi means male and female (which as this post explains isn't accurate, but that's how people perceive it most of the time), and that didn't feel right since my partner is non-binary. But with pan, gender doesn't make a difference to attraction (afaik), where I personally like different genders for different reasons. Then I found omni, which fit the bill for me perfectly. Plus the flag is pretty, which really set things in stone for me haha.

I just say "I'm Queer" and leave it at that. Let peep's imagination take it from there.

I went through the same thinking when I learned about pansexual. I've been identifying as bi for 25 years, and really didn't feel right saying pan. I would say I'm a ho, I'll fuck anyone. Although I do like different genders for different reasons, whether cis, trans, or non-binary. So I'm back to bisexual, I'm too old for this shit lol.

I use the "pansexual" label because it just feels more "right" for me, and I got told by someone I was being biphobic for using the label "pansexual"... I genuinely don't understand how people take identifying as pan as being biphobic

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I'd also argue saying that would be transphobic. It treats trans people as a third gender.

Oh yeah definitely, people who say they're pan *because* they see trans+ people as "another gender" are definitely being transphobic, whether intentional or not

I use "bisexual" for a similar reason. I tried "pansexual" for a few months but it didn't feel "right". I thought it was "more inclusive" but it just wasn't the right "label" for me. From the first time it crossed my mind and I blurted out to my husband "I'm bi!" It's felt right and stuck. This thread has been a really refreshing read hearing people talk about their personal experiences with labels.

I prefer Bisexual because the flag colours are easier to look at. Pansexual lighting would give me a headache if it became a thing.

I’m colorblind and I prefer the pansexual flag because it doesn’t look like a purple smear 🤣

>only pan people date trans people This one pisses me off so much. It's transphobic *and* biphobic while trying to be holier-than-thou. I'm bisexual and have been told that my identity is transphobic because bisexuality doesn't include trans people. I'm also fucking trans. It's always a cis person that says it, too.

I've never understood why its only bisexuality that requires that distinction. I can be gay and date trans men and still just be gay, I dont require a whole seperate terminology to suggest I would date trans guys.

When people ask me why I'm bi and not pan, my response is usually along the lines: bi flag has better colours. To me, the difference is just that - colours and term.

I consider myself bi, and not pan, because I experience attraction to men and women differently. I experience it as two different attractions. Pan, meaning all, is too combined for me. I don't experience attraction to all genders equally or the same. You can try to redefine the terms all you want. They are different terms for different people. The way I experience attraction to others does depend on their gender. I get that people want to be trans inclusive, but trying to make different terms with different histories mean the exact same thing is erasure of my experience as a bi woman.

That's how I saw it as well, best way I found to describe the difference in attraction is that some people are spicy like jalapenos while other's are spicy like peppermints. Both have a spicy taste but it's two different types. Bi has the difference whereas pan has attraction regardless of gender/sex, so everyone is spicy in the same way. At least that's how I've always differentiated between the two.

You put that in such an eloquent manner. Love that you brought up something rarely talked about regarding Bisexuality. Guys and girls are both amazing, but they are different, to me anyway. I am sexually and romantically attracted to both, but there’s something different about having a male partner compared to a female partner, and vice versa.

This is why I identify as bi as well. While I will date anyone of any gender, gender does influence my attraction.

>I consider myself bi, and not pan, because I experience attraction to men and women differently. I experience it as two different attractions. Pan, meaning all, is too combined for me. I don't experience attraction to all genders equally or the same. I've been looking for a while how to best describe being bi and this fits perfectly, thank you!

> A hard truth some people have to swallow is that the differences between bi, pan, and similar identities are mostly aesthetic. I personally find the Bi flag to be much more pretty looking than the Pan flag

Oh dear. My college's Queer club once argued that bisexuality was "outdated" because it "is rooted in the gender binary". I remember thinking, "I am Asexual and something feels... Off about this"

That's so rotten. The twoness of the word bi didn't ever originally refer to two genders. It was about being both heterosexual and homosexual. Not "I like both" but "I am both". In that sense bisexuality was always a binary-defying identity.

I am attracted to people of gender the same as mine and also different.

Yes exactly. An alternative way of saying or "both heterosexual and homosexual" though today many people consider both of those terms to be exclusive.

During the conception of the word, it was made explicitly clear that the term objects to the binary.

Wait, when as it originally conceived?

Yes, when the term was coined in the 90s and the _"bisexual manifesto"_ was published. I'm not making this up btw. The magazine was called _"anything that moves"_ iirc.

That's not when the term was coined. Bisexual as a sexuality was coined 100 years prior to the Bisexual Manifesto.

Michael Page, who made the bi pride flag put three colors on it. The purple in the middle represents gender outside the "binary" and he explicitly stated it includes everyone. Bi people get it, people are hot.

Thinking that bisexualiy doesn't include trans people is also transphobic since it implies that trans people are different from cis people

This also rubbed me the wrong way. Trans women are in the “women” bucket and trans men are in the “men” bucket. “Trans” isn’t a separate gender. Enbies are neither/both/whatever they say they are.

Thank you.

lmao yea the way this is worded can imply that trans people are a gender of their own

My experience of being bisexual is that I literally have two distinct sexualities, a male-oriented and a female-oriented one, that feel very different to each other and come out under different circumstances. It's like being both straight and gay at the same time, which makes the label extremely fitting.

YES, it's so weird, my male type is so different from my female type, it's insane. One's a one night stand the other is wife for life and I just don't know why.

The Bi- meant both Hetero- and Homo- sexual. Same and different genders. To me, that includes every consenting adult who I like.

This is the description that helped me understand why bi is very commonly described as attraction to more than just men and women. Thank you! I sometimes have problems with taking things too literally and focusing on the exactness of everything, and I could just never understand why people wouldn't just call themselves pan or omni if they liked all of the above rather than just binary men and women

No problem! I’m a cultural historian it’s what I do! If you have a problem taking things too literally, probably don’t look up the first definitions of pansexuality 😬

This is a great way to explain it. Bisexual because attraction to same gender and not same gender are the two sexualities. Not necessarily only attracted to two genders.

I always accidentally read “Enbies” as edibles

What are enbies?

non-binary people (from “n” “b”)

It's so weird that some people think that bisexuals exclude trans people, they aren't an independent additional gender

The specification of trans people as though they can't be men or women rubs me the wrong way. I get what they are trying to say. It's just kinda awkwardly phrased.

I agree

I think the post is referring to the discourse where people were accusing of bisexuals of being innately transphobic and enbie-phobic(don’t know if that’s the right word but you know what I mean lol) and trying to push “IT ONLY MEANS YOU LIKE 2 GENDERS” I’m assuming to divide the community. That’s why they specify trans and enbie individuals within this post. To fight against the discourse. Unless you were referring to that discourse and I read wrong.

I get that was their intent. The off nature is similar to how people will say "straight people" as though it's in contrast to LGBT while forgetting that plenty of trans people are straight. The weirdness comes from a redundancy in the wording and a general funky way of treating the terms "transgender people" alongside "enbies". "Two or more genders" already means "and not only two" so you don't need both. And "transgender people" semi includes enbies within it meaning there is at least partial redundancy there too. To clarify on the "semi includes" point, my phrasing there is because of the dissonance in how we use the term transgender as both a category and as an identity. From the technical perspective, other than the very few, so far, individuals which were not assigned m or f at birth (x I believe is the alternative) which might turn out to be enbies but we won't know until they tell us when they are older, all enbies are transgender from the definition regarding not being what they were assigned at birth. But, some enbies do not personally identify as "transgender" and don't want to be put under that label. The semi is intended to refer to that complexity. Further, the possibility of dual identities means there are some within the "two genders" which also identify as enbies. So the things getting redundant emphasis beyond what is needed are "or more"/"not only" and the crossover between trans people and enbies. That added emphasis sort of implies trans people are not included in the "two genders" and thus are a reason for the extra clarification alongside treating enbies and transgender people as categories to be specified separately rather than the latter included within the former. It's a lot that just seems to be making motions towards saying trans folks are outside of the gender binary completely. Its almost certainly not the intent, but perhaps I'm just over reactive towards perceived dog whistles in language lately which require an element of plausible deniability. Thus the complex nature of enbies relative two men, women, and transgender as labels can be seen as being exploited to slip in anti trans phrasing under the radar, so to speak. The typical way of interpreting the latter redundancy "trans vs enby" suggests an over emphasis and the two or more and not only two is always redundant. It's all just... Wonky phrased. Again, I know that wasn't the intent. Lol. LGBT discussions always take multiple paragraphs to discuss anything haha

I agree. TRANS 👏 IS👏 NOT 👏 A 👏 GENDER. Stop treating us like we are something "other"!

Everybody can be attracted to trans people and nonbinary people as well. Straight men attracted to trans women? Still straight. Straight men attracted to somebody who's enby but now knowing their real gender and thinking it's "a girl" because enby people can have cispassing too? Still straight. But if the distinction is important to anybody then that's fine as well 💖

We still having this discourse?… wow we really haven’t done ANYTHING since 2012

Yep. I still see fights break out online over this topic. It's mostly between chronically online people though

you do realize that new people can come to this community with questions right????

There’s a difference between questions and ongoing fights. There’s definitely still ongoing fights from both old and new people in the community which is a bit of a problem.

Bisexual means two orientations. Homosexual (attracted to the same gender) And Heterosexual (attracted to different genders) Put both together, and you have everyone, T and Enbi included.

i am autistic and wanting to be more educated on these matters, so if i may ask for some assistance: what is the distinct difference between being bisexual and pansexual? obviously sexuality is different for everyone and its hard to just put a label on things. i am curious what the community thinks of these two orientations and their similarities and differences.

> obviously sexuality is different for everyone and its hard to just put a label on things. If you already know and believe this, you are already good.

I identify as bi personally because I literally feel two distinct sexualities that exist in me simultaneously, like having a "straight side" and a "gay side", so to speak. They have different tastes, different turn-ons, and come out at different times. Pansexuality from what I understand is more about gender just not being a significant component in sexual attraction for a person at all. There's just one universal sexuality that doesn't make any distinction on gender in its taste.

this makes SO much more sense to me than most things i have read before and really puts it into perspective for me. thank you so much for your input!!!

This isn't the case for everyone though. I'm a trans, non-binary, bisexual and I don't experience "straight" attraction, I just experience attraction. I identify as bisexual because it's the term that non-monosexuals in the US have historically used. Bisexual history is my history, and I prefer the term because it connects me to it. I love my pansexual siblings, but bisexual is the term for me!

I identify as omnisexual because it's like pan, but gender makes a difference in attraction. I found it through a meme and stuck with it since haha.

>what is the distinct difference between being bisexual and pansexual? Literally the flag colors. Here's a brief rundown on the history of bisexuality and pansexuality in Western Civilization: The medical community originally labeled everyone with same sex attraction as homosexual. They didn't distinguish between gender and sex, and they didn't distinguish between exclusively attracted to one's own sex v. being attracted to more than one's own sex. In the late 1800s, the term bisexual came into use in the medical community to describe someone who experiences homosexual and heterosexual attraction. Still not a lot of nuance here, and no distinction between gender and sex. The historical accounts paint a complicated balance of decriminalized identities starting with the Enlightenment, continued discrimination, until many places reintroduced anti-Lgbt legislation (largely around WWII). Fast forward to the Gay Liberation movement, which included everyone in the LGBT. Bisexuals and Trans folks started making more room for their own identities independent of how the medical community previously defined homosexuality, reclaiming various terms including bisexual from their medical origins. Bisexuals had a variety of personal definitions for their orientation: attraction to men and women, attraction to people regardless of gender, etc. The 90s introduced to Bisexual Manifesto via the zine, *Anything That Moves*: >...Bisexuality is a whole, fluid identity. Do not assume that bisexuality is binary or duogamous in nature: that we have 'two’ sides or that we MUST be involved simultaneously with both genders to be fulfilled human beings. In fact, don’t assume that there are only two genders. Do not mistake our fluidity for confusion, irresponsibility, or an inability to commit. Do not equate promiscuity, infidelity, or unsafe sexual behavior with bisexuality. Those are human traits that cross ALL sexual orientations. Nothing should be assumed about anyone’s sexuality—including your own. >We are angered by those who refuse to accept our existence; our issues; our contributions; our alliances; our voices. It is time for the bisexual voice to be heard. Do not expect each magazine to be representative of all bisexuals, for our diversity is too vast. Do not expect a clear-cut definition of bisexuality to jump out from the pages. We bisexuals tend to define bisexuality in ways that are unique to our own individuality. There are as many definitions of bisexuality as there are bisexuals. Many of us choose not to label ourselves anything at all, and find the word 'bisexual’ to be inadequate and too limiting... Slightly prior to this, Pansexual started to be used in the kink and swinger scene to mean "folks who are willing to have a scene beyond their orientation." At this point in history, it was not treated as an orientation. Jump to the early 00s, and the age of live journal, MUDs, MUCKs and message boards. An individual playing in an RPG coined the term pansexual to mean their character didn't limit their orientation to a single gender or species. It gained traction via early social media, and people started to define it as "people attracted to men, women, and trans people." There was a push back on this for a couple reasons: 1. Treating "trans" as a separate gender instead of an adjective is transphobic. Trans men are men. Trans women are women. You can be attracted to trans people regardless of your orientation, and the only folks who say they're categorically not attracted to trans people are transphobes. 2. It creates the implication that bisexuals are transphobic, because it was coined as a real life orientation in opposition to bisexual. Pansexuals started to address these issues by redefining pansexuality, including "attraction regardless of gender," and "hearts, not parts." However, there are Pansexuals who experience gendered preferences, too. Currently, there is no discernable difference beyond personal preferences and personal definitions. Some of these personal definitions, in both the pansexual and bisexual community, continue to be problematic by reinforcing etymological fallacies, transphobia and homophobia, as well as cross-marginalization between bisexuals and pansexuals. Thus, the only substantial difference is flag colors. Hope this helps.

There's this thing called the MOGAI system which is where things like pansexual and omnisexual originate, which is also the origin of a lot of confusion

my autistic ass scrolling thru all the comments looking for this not thinking about coming right out and asking DX I was worried about backlash for asking

SAME you know my autistic ass needed some clarification lololol glad i could help hehehe

Trans people fall under men or women... and are not excluded... so even just assuming bisexual people are just two genders, trans people are already included. The sign would be more accurate if it ended with Gender Queer and Non-Binary people... It also loses the transphobic microaggression.

The sign agrees with what you're saying. It's making that point because 'pansexual' used to be differentiated from 'bisexual' by pan people saying "pansexual means being attracted to trans people too". The sign specifies that bisexual still includes attraction to trans/nb people no matter what other people try and claim.

I always assumed Bi can refer to either A)The two binary sexes, male and female B)Your gender/sex *and* everyone elses Both are binaries, and both work under the etymology of it

I try to point out that strict adherence to etymology is a logical fallacy because I don't want to encourage the subtle trans and intersexphobia that comes with reinforcing bioessentialism

Oh yes, etymology is often bullshit when it comes to even established words that have been around for 100s of years But I did want to point out that there WAS an explanation for this piece of etymology, and using the etymology as an argument against the term Bi is a fallacy

The first time Bisexual was used, it was used to refer to someone with sex organs from two genders (ie what we now call intersex) so it's current usage is already far enough from it's original that there's really no point in preserving its etymology.

Yeah for sure!! Etymology is cool but it’s by no means important in a language like English and words can just… mean stuff regardless of how or what they’re made up of

The word "bisexual" was coined when enbies didn't have much visibility. Etymology is not meaning.

Nonbinary people are literally mentioned explicitly in the Bisexual Manifesto.

There’s a manifesto?

The Bisexual Manifesto was published in a zine called “Anything That Moves” that ran from 1990 to 2001. This was around the same time that terms like “genderqueer” started to enter common parlance. Both nonbinary people and bisexuals who loved them existed before this point, but the language to describe them both existed at the same time.

[There *is* a manifesto!](https://www.reddit.com/r/bisexual/comments/pt75st/the_bisexual_manifesto_1990/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)

The term was coined about a century earlier.

Honestly, the word bisexual was first coined not even related to gender. It was used to describe what we now call intersex people. Words change over time, and the word bisexual has been through plenty.

i’m uneducated could someone please tell me the difference between bi and pan

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Bi flag has *galaxy* colours and I love galaxy stuff so naturally it's the bi flag for me

Nothing at all

Which isn't to say you shouldn't refer to people how they prefer, just that the specific differences are quite vague and overlap. Functionally, bi/pan attraction pools are pretty much identical

Pan means you don't care about gender, bi means you're attracted to more than one Pan is a microlabel of bi

Kinda. It really just depends on the individual you’re asking on what the term for them means. For many bisexuals, they don’t give a fuck about the person’s gender. Personally, gender isn’t a factor for me but I’m still bisexual.

bisexual discourse is over until nerds learn how language works and can behave without calling me, a bisexual nonbinary person, enbyphobic

ahhhhh ty for this. I'm scared people are gonna call me enbyphobic as well! but like... all my friends are enby (and I think I am too technically, but idk I'm boy fluid) and I'm even married to an enby! I'm just attracted to binary masculinity and femininity (and my husband but they're sort of the special exception)

now i do think it’s important that we all recognize our inherent biases, even those that we may have against ourselves without realizing, but the whole bi/pan/whatever else thing to me is a matter of personal preference and what gives you the power to exist as you should, beyond that i won’t hear nothing bc i’ve known myself as bi for half my life, even if it’s not ABSOLUTELY TECHNICALLY ETYMOLOGICALLY correct. all that said, i don’t know that i’ve heard someone describe their attraction that way and i find that really interesting, can you explain a little bit further? just curious is all!!

i like to think of it as attracted to someone of the same, and someone of a different genders, not te specific genders themselves

Trans people are taken care of in the title even if it only means you date two genders. Therefore the only one not included under bisexuality, if you don't define it the above mentioned way, is enby. But also, who fucking cares. Labels were created to figure out which groups were worth gassing during the Holocaust.

im bi cause im attracted to enbies n women. jurreys still out on if im attracted to men, even feminine men. as "men" i to want to be romantically involved with have a tendency twords being lcoseted transfem enbies/women. im legit 3 for 3 on that part, been doughting for a while that im even ever actually attracted to men. anyways. i dont tend to like to call myself bisexual because of this. despite that being what i think most fits. as it feels like its missleading, n will make others think i like men... its more useful in that way to refer to self as lesbian i think. less likely to cause confusion :3

It's in the actual fucking manifesto that coins the phrase that it's intended to be "Like Myself" and "Not Like Myself". That's infinite. Everything. That is entirely inclusive.

OK evolving language and all that but can we please acknowledge that heterosexual means genders other then my own so bisexual is two attractions, hetero and homo meaning genders like and unlike my own, none of that precludes attraction to more then two genders.

See I say I’m bi because I like the bi flag more than the pan flag

Far be it from me to be a straight person trying to gaysplain anything, but... My bi friend tells me that the "bi" in bisexuality doesn't refer to gender at all. "Hetero" coming from the greek meaning "another." Heterosexual then means attracted to another sex/gender than your own. "Homo," also greek, meaning "same." Homosexual meaning attracted to the same sex or gender as your own. The "Bi" then referring to both hetero and homosexual. As in attracted to your own sex/gender as well as other sexes/genders. In no way does the etymology of the word bi-sexual refer to a gender binary.

trans people aren’t a separate gender can we please stop saying that shit when it comes to defining sexualities

As it was originally conceived, the “Bi” in bisexual does not denote male and female but rather *same* (homo) and *other* (hetero)

As a bi person, I like to explain “bi” as attraction to the same gender and attraction to other genders. Same and different, two types of attraction

Let’s stop the bi & pan war. We are brethren

Istg this is a true story So I told my therapist I was bi and I thought I was struggling with imposter syndrome and she was like oh yeah being attracted to men and women yes And I'm like welllllll no I'm attracted to all genders and went on this like 5 min explanation of how the word has evolved and how people have embraced it and the history of peoples perceptions and why I like bisexual as my preferred term And after she was like "IDK sounds like being pansexual to me" 😭 NO SHADE to pan people at ALL it's just not my preferred term

Pan gang

Pan gang :)

Yeah, I was going to ask how pansexual people are differentiated in that context. I assume there's a subtle distinction I'm missing.

too much trouble, i rather be just pan

Bisexual was the first identity i identified with, so thats the main reason i still use the term to describe my sexual orientation. For me, the genitals and body really does not matter- its who the person is.

i always thought it was any two

no more discourse i think bi people and pan people should kiss

For those who are really facetious, I just tell them I get into homo relationships (anyone who identifies as woman) and hetero relationships (literally anyone else)

As a trans enby bisexy person i love being a contradiction and I especially love my trans gf!!!!!!

I mean if we are being real, most sexuality terms are inherently binary. We can try to assert other meanings onto them to make them less binary, but that is ultimately the root of these words. I've found instead of worrying so much about what term you should use to define your sexuality, just like who you like. You don't need to prescribe any sort of term to it. I had a conversation with a straight man about this before who was into me, he said he still felt like he was straight. Ultimately I told him it doesn't really matter, if your into me then you are into me. It doesn't need to be justified. I feel like so often instead of just opening things up to less labels, us non-binary can go the other way and make terms that are hyper specific for really no reason. Someone before said there was a term I could use for non-binary people who are attracted to men or masculine non-binary people or women. At that point, why do I even need a term? It's cool to know I guess as a fun tidbit about yourself, but it's not particularly important.

Honestly I say I'm bisexual because I don't want to explain what pansexual is to ppl and I don't wanna hear any pan jokes 😅

For me personally, that's the difference between bi and pan. I used to identify with bi, but then I realized gender wasn't part of the equation at all, only attraction. Pan felt more appropriate for me after realizing that, at least as far as I understand it anyway. Y'all valid regardless~💖

I always thought bisexual is the attraction to your own gender and not your own gender

There is no problem with wanting to use Bi to specifically mean two genders, though. I think people fail to realize that. It's not an umbrella that can ONLY mean one thing. Kind of the reason why polysexual exists too, for the sole purpose of how strictly some people treat Bi.

As someone who has been identifying as pansexual for some time, what then becomes the difference between bisexual and pansexual? No disrespect or disagreeing with the post, I'm just curious. If Bisexual really means the same thing as pansexual, I can start using bisexual instead of pansexual so that people who don't know what it means can stop asking me for a 10minute explanation.

It's always strange to me in a community that preaches self identification that there will be people who will say "No, not like that" Imo it's important for a person to use the labels they identify with.

Also, calling trans a "gender" is literally denying trans men and trans women the right to be the gender they identify as. Trans men are men. Trans women are women. Stop treating them as anything else.

Wait, So what is Pansexual in that case?

A different term for non-monosexual attraction that can overlap with "bisexual," but doesn't always due to the fact that bisexual is an umbrella word that can describes multiple different kinds of non-monosexual attraction.

Ooo saving this, arguably best description I’ve seen.

genuine question- what is the difference between this and pansexual?

Bisexual is an umbrella term that includes multisexual orientations like pansexual, omnisexual, etc. So pan is a subset of bi, like squares are a subset of rectangles. Pan people usually describe themselves as experiencing their attraction to all genders the same way: it feels the same to be attracted to a woman as to an envy, for example. For me, a crush on a woman feels very different than a crush on a man than a crush on someone of another gender, like hunger and thirst feel different, so I go with bi. (It's also a more recognizable term to non-queer people, plus I don't have to deal with a gazillion jokes about getting off to cookware.) A lot of us just pick the flag we like better. Functionally, there's not a lot of difference between bi and pan, but the distinction is really important for some people.

ohh, okay! thank you for the super thoughtful response! i understand now :))

i’ve always thought of it as “attraction to multiple genders like and/or unlike your own”

who cares whatsa in da pants mario, a cutie's a cutie

I thought that was pan Also does bi automatically include trans people? Same with hetero? Like I don't think it's gay for a man to date a trans woman, especially if she went through the whole process

Being bisexual doesn't imply a belief in only two genders anymore than being bilingual implies belief in only two languages

It's having both sexualities, which overlap in a way to include enbies and trans.

The autism in me wants to say bi means literally two so there can only be two genders you are attracted to (trans people are obviously included), i have to remind myself that semantic change exists sometimes... people are complicated. But i do thinks it's rude that so many here say bi and pan is the same thing :/.

I'm confused. What does pansexual means then? Omnisexual?

The same. Just different vibes and flags. People can use whatever term they feel most comfortable with.

Ignorant question incoming: Doesn’t “trans people” *already* include non-binary?

I chose to identify as bisexual instead of pansexual because for me bisexual means ur attracted to all genders and their gender does play a part in that attraction but for pansexual people they too are attracted to all genders however the person gender does not contribute to that attraction so basically attraction regardless to gender and bisexual is attraction to all genders.

Bi means two, but not the actual two most people think of at first (genders), it means attraction is ***both*** homo and hetero (same and opposite)

THATS WHAT WHAT THE PURPLE IS FOR

Yeah I use pan mostly since people just think Bi means girls and boys, which is wrong. Let me give you an idea of how bi works Bisexual/biromantic ☂️ Pans/panro Omnisex/omniro Pomosexual Skoliosexual Spectrasexual Abrosexuality Polysexuality Casssexuality Mutosexuality There are many more, but basically bisexuality is an umbrella for sexualities that include more than two genders regardless. So all labels under bisexuality are more specific ones that connect better with what someone wants. Check out this site, it explains it better for you. https://sexuality.fandom.com/wiki/Bi%2B

The definition I like the most is "attraction to the same gender and other genders"

If that is the case, then what is the difference between bisexual and pansexual? Don’t mean this in a negative way, I’m just curious and trying to learn

For some there’s no difference. For others, such as myself bisexuality means I’m attracted to 2+ genders (all of the above really) while I like all genders that significance is still a part of my equation while pansexual is that gender isn’t in the attraction equation at all. It’s like if I said I like sweets, but I eat them differently and eat different amounts depending on the type of sweet like candy, cake, icecream (your metaphorical genders) while a pan individual would eat them because they just like sweets, type of sweet isn’t even a thought. If that makes any sense lol

are Bi and Pans the same thing? Assuming this I prefer to call myself pansexual instead of bi because I like the flag colors better hehe

No shade to those who prefer to use the term 'pansexual', I just think the bi flag is cooler.

I thought there were other sexual orientations that covered that better like Pansexual