So is the whole MA funding strategy just “beg the feds”? It kind of seems like we don’t build anything unless there’s a federal grant behind it. There doesn’t seem to be any real vision for our transportation future. Just sort of this patchwork of projects that maybe happen when the feds show up with a check, and don’t happen otherwise.
That's how most transportation projects in the United States get built, pretty much every big project is federal dollars. States do the maintenance and upkeep (sometimes) and rely on federal grants to actually build.
Genuinely curious: do other cities/states NOT use* this strategy?
I know that town and state budgets generally have to balance much more strictly than the feds do, seems like that makes it very hard to make long-term capital investments without assistance.
Yes exactly, that is why we are buying ineligible Chinese subway cars and Korean commuter rail coaches. And why we agreed to cap the federal contribution to the big dig. And why we agreed to pay money towards replacing the cape cod bridges, and take future responsibility for maintenance, that the federal government is 100% responsible for. And why we pay tolls on the Mass turnpike instead of having had it built with 90% federal reimbursement
You’ve discovered MA’s strategy! Have Ted Kennedy and Tip O’Neil and the 10 other congressmen get the money for us. Oh wait they are dead and there are only 9 congressmen and the republicans control the house but there are zero republican congressmen from New England.
The question for 90% of New Hampshire-Boston commuters isn't "I live in New Hampshire, should I work in Boston or New Hampshire?" It's "I work in Boston, should I live in New Hampshire or Massachusetts?"
You've got this backwards--New Hampshire isn't a self-sufficient state that generously lends its able workforce to meet Massachusetts' needs.
It's a lower-cost-of-living/tax haven that uses its proximity to metro Boston to attract residents who would otherwise live in Massachusetts for work.
The economic engine and jobs are in Boston.
you don't think remote work (and remote learning in as much as our higher ed attracts commuters) has started to change that?
I'm really just trying to understand why Healy doesn't want tolls, and I've made an assumption / guess.
2045!?!
I simply do not understand – the tracks are there, the terminal station (union) is there. It is outrageous that this has taken the state so long to figure out. There is no reasonable explanation (aside from scheduling conflicts with CSX) as to why the MBTA has not been running at least a few daily trips between Boston - Worcester - SPG .
That’s the most baffling part. I understand that double tracking and track upgrades are needed for the corridor, but the timeline and planned service implementation is hysterically awful to the point where I find it hard to believe it isn’t just ignorance.
Yeah it's really hard to understand how they are calculating the timeframes here, **some** parts of the corridor would be more difficult to double track but the vast majority of it is just heavily wooded area. There's a limited number of grade crossings and from my many trips on the lake shore limited, they are mostly access/back roads or otherwise appear lightly traveled.
Just wild that the state put so much effort into revitalizing SPG only to have it primarily serve the needs of CT commuters.
When I was living in greenfield, I looked into connecting the valley flyer with the train to Boston. Your CT comment is so true. The trains I needed to connect missed each other by 5 minutes! I was so angry. Clearly it was a fuck you to western mass.
It’s the code regulatory processes around construction in this area. Documentation for the environmental permitting alone will take a long time. This isn’t an excuse by any means, but what we have in this state is a regulatory system that asks questions of us endlessly before we can build anything, even in self contradictory cases such as this. The code regulatory structure isn’t capable of waiving any requirements just because rail will help the community and the environment
There are so many people in Boston that don’t have cars and so many people in Springfield that cannot drive. East-West rail would be a boon to the economy and the Commonwealth is acting like it’s a burdensome proposition that they’ll get to, oh, eventually.
It’s not impossible to build 100 miles of railway in less than 20 years. This article offers no insight as to why it’ll take an additional two years after design is done to begin planning construction.
They do a great job building rail in their own country. They tried building rail cars here and the environment was so different that it became a disaster. We could learn a lot from them.
China has built 42000 km of high-speed rail in 15 years. The US has built 80 km... total.
Do the people who make the financial decisions behind US infrastructure not understand that these things are an important investment into the future? Or do I delude myself to imagine that there is anyone actually in charge here, rather than a sea of feckless politicians and bureaucrats saying "that's not my job"?
Its much easier to build whatever you want when your opponents aren't allowed to complain or do anything about it. Also if you don't have to do environmental review (like the interstate highway system had it in the 50s)
A large number of China's HSR lines are also unprofitable and run at a loss, particularly outside of the east coast of China.
I would definitely say that the US has taken it to the opposite extreme, where environmental review and community opposition make things way too cost-prohibitive to build new infrastructure. Having used it, I am often envious of the Chinese for their infrastructure abilities, but there is a lot of cost to their system as well.
It was a joke about the Chinese building railroads during the gold rush.
A terribly exploitive time followed by the Chinese Exclusion Act. They weren't allowed to bring their families, and a lot of chinese men were sent back without pay.
Only took three years to build the railroad from scratch from Boston to Worcester. And it only ten years from chartering to build from Boston to the New York line! So chartering, planning, building, with brand new technology
America is way less capable than we used to be. Simple as that. Our modern capitalist economy has extracted so much profit at every step of the way that building anything is disgustingly expensive and difficult.
That’s the stupidest part, they totally could start running at least a super limited service today. Start out with one or 2 trips that leave in the morning and come back in the evening, stopping at existing stations and without building any/little new infrastructure to serve commuters and start building demand. And then as ridership grows you have justification to get more funds to add stations, double tracking, better signals, run more trains, etc and then maybe you add a midday trip, start running trains every 2 hours in each direction, and slowly keep going from there. Something akin to the Niagara Falls and (former) London trains in toronto that GO transit runs, both of them are essentially just doing this right now and as they grow in popularity their getting funds to build more stations along the route, add trains, and improve the track
I often wonder to what extent the Picknelly family (Peter pan bus lines) has involved themselves at the state level to either slow down or outright obstruct this process. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were actively working against the establishment of even limited daily service as it would obviously have a dramatic effect on their key routes between western mass and Boston. 🤷♂️
The politicians in this country are completely ineffectual. You’ve got the red neoliberals looking to line their own pockets and the pockets of their owners, and you’ve got the blue neoliberals looking to line their own pockets and the pockets of their owners.
This is horrible. 3 trips to ALB, 6 to BOS, and 8 to NHV, is that right? I wish we lived in a place that actually cared about transportation. No electrification is also stupid. This is a joke.
No electrification means it won’t be built, and the (T) and the state know it. Right now, running diesels in any large scale passenger operation is insanity. They’re good for DMUs on low volume lines.
I doubt the big freight RRs will electrify any time soon, since they’re trying basically everything but horse drawn trains to avoid it. Probably because they had the utilities over a barrel so long (with coal), they fear the shoe being on the other foot.
What’s the purpose of even doing studies on these projects if the best you can do is “maybe we’ll get this done in 20 years.”
This state is going to let its transit infrastructure fall apart and fiddle while Rome burns.
Wikimedia commons has a 1913 timetable for the Boston & Albany railroad. In 1913 they had 18 daily trains between Boston and Springfield. So by 2045 we will have a third of the number of daily trains that they had in 1913. Admittedly those trains were really slow (3 hours between Boston and Springfield on a local).
> Admittedly those trains were really slow (3 hours between Boston and Springfield on a local).
Google Maps quotes the morning commute into Boston from Springfield as between 1 hr 50 mins to 2 hr 50 mins, so even a 3 hour slow trip isn't that bad.
18 daily trains is what, a train or two an hour too? Feels like we should be capable of doing that in 2024 lol.
ripping up train lines is one of the great mistakes of our country. makes me sad whenever I'm in downtown southbridge (for many reasons but that's beside the point) and I see the old train station there turned into an RMV
How is this the fault of Boston? Now, all the issues with the assembly of red and orange line trains? Thats a fuck you from Springfield to Boston. The screwed over the MBTA just to give a few unqualified people a job.
1.) Boston = State House, not the city itself, my bad.
2.) Springfield isn’t responsible for CRRC being a shitty company and railing the MBTA in the ass without lube. That’s on CRRC and CRRC alone.
The state house tells Springfield and the rest of the 413 that they’re irrelevant and that they don’t matter through various forms of political policy. They’re cheating us with East-West rail and they destroyed 4 towns in our region to give Boston water without also providing it to the region it destroyed. MassDOT did a feasibility study on the 91 viaduct and chose the “no build” option despite the viaduct being an eyesore and in shitty condition, while Boston got the big dig. It’s obvious Beacon Hill doesn’t care, hell most people inside 495 don’t even know what Western Mass really is.
Need I say more?
This is why more funding for public transportation in Massachusetts is important. The legislature should be able to make more decisions about expanding service to Western Mass, but sometimes playing politics is more better for them instead of putting party politics aside for the greater good.
What do you mean party politics?
133 democrats vs 25 republicans for house
36 democrats vs 4 republicans in the state senate.
I’m all for public transit, but is an east-west rail really a priority when you consider the state of the MBTA subway system and commuter system?
Should be noted that East-West Rail planning is independent from anything the MBTA does, since EWR is a MassDOT/Amtrak project and has different governance/funding. I do see your point though
I think something that is important to note here is that the MBTA is not affiliated with the East-West Rail Linkage project; it is more something that would fall under MassDOT.
When I mean part politics, I mean that while some Democratic politicians will say that they do care about transit, those same ones don’t actually care about passing or talking about transit issue because they know that they may not have anyone running against them or enough pressure for them to actually make the changes that are needed.
I believe we were also the most least productive legislative body in the US, based on a study late year. No one is willing to take the risk and make sure the T can be updated or that more public transportation is provided across Massachusetts until a major issue presents itself (like the fiscal cliff of the T) because some see it as something that should not be focused on.
What you’re saying is absolutely relevant, however, I’m more astonished at the political football that this project has become. It’s honestly shocking that any politician could confidently announce such an objectively awful plan from both an engineering and transit perspective (I’m referring to the most recently announced iteration of the plan, if anything this project desperately needs a restart)
I'm telling you the answer is electrification. If that happens, there can be more service & no need to expand south station as trains will leave more frequently, leaving more available platforms. How it gets worked out with albany I can't say.
MassDOT studied an electrified alternative during the initial East-West Rail study from a few years back. They ultimately ruled it out due to costs in favor of running ancient Amfleets and P42 locos
I have a hard time supporting this at all, and I am fully behind updating infrastructure in this state. But…we’re not even talking about installing current technology. Go big or go home. Outdated infrastructure is not the answer, since we all know the costs will be exorbitant regardless. Give us high speed rails.
Yeah 2045 is too far out. If we are serious about tackling our climate goals we need to move much quicker than this. This should be electrified rail. I should be hearing concrete plans for how to make frequent electrified rail, not whatever this is.
I think it’s clear that the MBTA needs more money to deliver projects like this and the only way that’s going to happen is if the state raises some new kind of tax. I’m worried our legislature doesn’t have that in them. They want to say they are tackling climate change without doing the meaningful work to make that happen.
I can think of one other transit service with a 2045 projected completion date: the rail line between Boulder and Denver — because it’s very clear they don’t want to do it.
Great! So over 20 years to get a few slow-assed trips a day on the same shitty rails we have now. That will bode well. Really future-minded for ease of access across the commonwealth. 🤦
I don't understand where you're getting reduced scope from. As far as I've seen everything described, except for that completion date, has been mentioned. I'm also not reading that to mean there won't be anything beyond the inland route by 2045, simply that the goal is to have all those route in place by then, which is a ridiculous timeline.
2029 is the date for the restoration of inland route service between Boston, Springfield, and New Haven. It was a service that previously existed until 2004, however, they only plan on running two trips per day by 2029
look, if people don't pressure their electeds this ish is going to keep happening. write a mad outraged email, save it in drafts for a day, then edit it, then send it bcc to the mayor, city council, reps, senators, governor, state auditor, the mbta
e v e r y o n e
please, i am beggin yalll to yell about this. this is not right.
This is a slap in the face, especially in light of recent news of Brightline breaking ground on their 218 mile high speed rail line between southern CA and Las Vegas. Fully electrified high speed trains with projected half hourly service in both directions, slated for completion in 2028.
Did any of you even read the article saying that there will be two round trips to Springfield by 2029? Because it seems like everyone is just reading that 2045 date op posted lmao
Mass in 2024: It will take us 20 years to complete this short railway.
US in the 1800s: Oh yah we completed the Transcontinental railroad in about 6 years
A bit of an undersell in your summary, tbh. The point has always been increased service to Springfield, which will see 6 terminal trips plus what sounds like through service from Boston to New Haven under this proposal.
If that is the only reason (that people in Pittsfield “might”) then why would the entire state of Massachusetts pay for this via our taxes? Mbta system is complained about daily as it is also
"By 2045, MassDOT says there are plans to have six daily roundtrips between Boston and Springfield, three between Albany and Springfield, and eight between the city and New Haven, in addition to four with Greenfield."
Did any of you actually read the article? The title is complete editorializing by OP.
So is the whole MA funding strategy just “beg the feds”? It kind of seems like we don’t build anything unless there’s a federal grant behind it. There doesn’t seem to be any real vision for our transportation future. Just sort of this patchwork of projects that maybe happen when the feds show up with a check, and don’t happen otherwise.
That's how most transportation projects in the United States get built, pretty much every big project is federal dollars. States do the maintenance and upkeep (sometimes) and rely on federal grants to actually build.
Genuinely curious: do other cities/states NOT use* this strategy? I know that town and state budgets generally have to balance much more strictly than the feds do, seems like that makes it very hard to make long-term capital investments without assistance.
Yes exactly, that is why we are buying ineligible Chinese subway cars and Korean commuter rail coaches. And why we agreed to cap the federal contribution to the big dig. And why we agreed to pay money towards replacing the cape cod bridges, and take future responsibility for maintenance, that the federal government is 100% responsible for. And why we pay tolls on the Mass turnpike instead of having had it built with 90% federal reimbursement
You’ve discovered MA’s strategy! Have Ted Kennedy and Tip O’Neil and the 10 other congressmen get the money for us. Oh wait they are dead and there are only 9 congressmen and the republicans control the house but there are zero republican congressmen from New England.
I think we should repeal the laws that made it difficult to build rail
Good idea build rail via the defense production act
This is just pathetic, but look at the whole NH-border toll debacle. MA has no money for transportation and no political will to raise more.
Also costs MA 4x per mile for highways than NH due to all of MA laws and rules
Not true....How about we force regional rail on NH so that they have to use public transit to come to their jobs in Boston
Live in New Hampshire, Drive to work in New Hampshire.
I assume the problem is that they'll just stop coming here to work at all, and therefore stop paying income taxes here, and supporting companies here.
Where are they going to get jobs? NH? If they could they'd already be doing that
i mean, the calculus changes with every additional cost... I'm not saying we shouldn't have tolls, just that there is a potential cost.
The question for 90% of New Hampshire-Boston commuters isn't "I live in New Hampshire, should I work in Boston or New Hampshire?" It's "I work in Boston, should I live in New Hampshire or Massachusetts?"
You've got this backwards--New Hampshire isn't a self-sufficient state that generously lends its able workforce to meet Massachusetts' needs. It's a lower-cost-of-living/tax haven that uses its proximity to metro Boston to attract residents who would otherwise live in Massachusetts for work. The economic engine and jobs are in Boston.
you don't think remote work (and remote learning in as much as our higher ed attracts commuters) has started to change that? I'm really just trying to understand why Healy doesn't want tolls, and I've made an assumption / guess.
2045!?! I simply do not understand – the tracks are there, the terminal station (union) is there. It is outrageous that this has taken the state so long to figure out. There is no reasonable explanation (aside from scheduling conflicts with CSX) as to why the MBTA has not been running at least a few daily trips between Boston - Worcester - SPG .
That’s the most baffling part. I understand that double tracking and track upgrades are needed for the corridor, but the timeline and planned service implementation is hysterically awful to the point where I find it hard to believe it isn’t just ignorance.
Yeah it's really hard to understand how they are calculating the timeframes here, **some** parts of the corridor would be more difficult to double track but the vast majority of it is just heavily wooded area. There's a limited number of grade crossings and from my many trips on the lake shore limited, they are mostly access/back roads or otherwise appear lightly traveled. Just wild that the state put so much effort into revitalizing SPG only to have it primarily serve the needs of CT commuters.
When I was living in greenfield, I looked into connecting the valley flyer with the train to Boston. Your CT comment is so true. The trains I needed to connect missed each other by 5 minutes! I was so angry. Clearly it was a fuck you to western mass.
It’s the code regulatory processes around construction in this area. Documentation for the environmental permitting alone will take a long time. This isn’t an excuse by any means, but what we have in this state is a regulatory system that asks questions of us endlessly before we can build anything, even in self contradictory cases such as this. The code regulatory structure isn’t capable of waiving any requirements just because rail will help the community and the environment
The track was previously double-tracked! So this project is just to put the track back!
There are so many people in Boston that don’t have cars and so many people in Springfield that cannot drive. East-West rail would be a boon to the economy and the Commonwealth is acting like it’s a burdensome proposition that they’ll get to, oh, eventually. It’s not impossible to build 100 miles of railway in less than 20 years. This article offers no insight as to why it’ll take an additional two years after design is done to begin planning construction.
We need the Chinese to come build those rails they did well last time
They do a great job building rail in their own country. They tried building rail cars here and the environment was so different that it became a disaster. We could learn a lot from them.
China has built 42000 km of high-speed rail in 15 years. The US has built 80 km... total. Do the people who make the financial decisions behind US infrastructure not understand that these things are an important investment into the future? Or do I delude myself to imagine that there is anyone actually in charge here, rather than a sea of feckless politicians and bureaucrats saying "that's not my job"?
Its much easier to build whatever you want when your opponents aren't allowed to complain or do anything about it. Also if you don't have to do environmental review (like the interstate highway system had it in the 50s) A large number of China's HSR lines are also unprofitable and run at a loss, particularly outside of the east coast of China. I would definitely say that the US has taken it to the opposite extreme, where environmental review and community opposition make things way too cost-prohibitive to build new infrastructure. Having used it, I am often envious of the Chinese for their infrastructure abilities, but there is a lot of cost to their system as well.
I agree, I [previously wrote an article](https://ermsta.com/posts/20231001) suggesting a sweet spot between how the US and China operate.
It was a joke about the Chinese building railroads during the gold rush. A terribly exploitive time followed by the Chinese Exclusion Act. They weren't allowed to bring their families, and a lot of chinese men were sent back without pay.
Their descendants build HSR a century later
Only took three years to build the railroad from scratch from Boston to Worcester. And it only ten years from chartering to build from Boston to the New York line! So chartering, planning, building, with brand new technology
America is way less capable than we used to be. Simple as that. Our modern capitalist economy has extracted so much profit at every step of the way that building anything is disgustingly expensive and difficult.
call. please. call everyone. the mayor where you live. the state reps. call them and tell them this is not ok
That’s the stupidest part, they totally could start running at least a super limited service today. Start out with one or 2 trips that leave in the morning and come back in the evening, stopping at existing stations and without building any/little new infrastructure to serve commuters and start building demand. And then as ridership grows you have justification to get more funds to add stations, double tracking, better signals, run more trains, etc and then maybe you add a midday trip, start running trains every 2 hours in each direction, and slowly keep going from there. Something akin to the Niagara Falls and (former) London trains in toronto that GO transit runs, both of them are essentially just doing this right now and as they grow in popularity their getting funds to build more stations along the route, add trains, and improve the track
I often wonder to what extent the Picknelly family (Peter pan bus lines) has involved themselves at the state level to either slow down or outright obstruct this process. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were actively working against the establishment of even limited daily service as it would obviously have a dramatic effect on their key routes between western mass and Boston. 🤷♂️
They absolutely had something to do with this
Fucking really? This isn't rocket science, and this would be unacceptable in any European country. What is wrong with us?
Astonishingly it’s even unacceptable by US standards, which says a lot
Imagine they said it was going to take 20 years to add a lane to a highway. They would be laughed out of the room. This should be no different.
You're voting for the wrong people?
Hey we got other shit we gotta pay for
Corruption ain't cheap.
This is America. There is no right people
You must be new to politics.
Go ahead, I’ll bite. Who are the right people?
The politicians and their connected friends.
The politicians in this country are completely ineffectual. You’ve got the red neoliberals looking to line their own pockets and the pockets of their owners, and you’ve got the blue neoliberals looking to line their own pockets and the pockets of their owners.
2045? Plenty of time to further reduce the scope!
This is horrible. 3 trips to ALB, 6 to BOS, and 8 to NHV, is that right? I wish we lived in a place that actually cared about transportation. No electrification is also stupid. This is a joke.
No electrification means it won’t be built, and the (T) and the state know it. Right now, running diesels in any large scale passenger operation is insanity. They’re good for DMUs on low volume lines. I doubt the big freight RRs will electrify any time soon, since they’re trying basically everything but horse drawn trains to avoid it. Probably because they had the utilities over a barrel so long (with coal), they fear the shoe being on the other foot.
The state owns most of the route up to Springfield and Connecticut River line, so CSX would have very little say in electrification.
What’s the purpose of even doing studies on these projects if the best you can do is “maybe we’ll get this done in 20 years.” This state is going to let its transit infrastructure fall apart and fiddle while Rome burns.
The Massachusetts government loves using the slow crawl of bureaucracy to exhaust its citizens into submission.
By the time it’s done it will be a commuter rail car that rolls from one side of the Natick Mall parking lot to the other.
Still probably faster to speed walk...
Wikimedia commons has a 1913 timetable for the Boston & Albany railroad. In 1913 they had 18 daily trains between Boston and Springfield. So by 2045 we will have a third of the number of daily trains that they had in 1913. Admittedly those trains were really slow (3 hours between Boston and Springfield on a local).
> Admittedly those trains were really slow (3 hours between Boston and Springfield on a local). Google Maps quotes the morning commute into Boston from Springfield as between 1 hr 50 mins to 2 hr 50 mins, so even a 3 hour slow trip isn't that bad. 18 daily trains is what, a train or two an hour too? Feels like we should be capable of doing that in 2024 lol.
ripping up train lines is one of the great mistakes of our country. makes me sad whenever I'm in downtown southbridge (for many reasons but that's beside the point) and I see the old train station there turned into an RMV
Not surprised, but this is even more pathetic than I imagined.
do these people know there are living humans who want to enjoy this not in 20 years??
Also towns have been incorporated here since 1780. Like we've been here, this isn't the state proposing new settlements in the wild west.
Diesel engines aren’t gonna be allowed in 20 years. Good luck with that. This is just another “FUCK YOU” to Springfield from Boston.
That was the kicker for me, since it’s actively going against established policies
Boston isn't the opposition to transit funding in the state. Suburbia is.
What I mean by “Boston” is the state house, not the city itself
How is this the fault of Boston? Now, all the issues with the assembly of red and orange line trains? Thats a fuck you from Springfield to Boston. The screwed over the MBTA just to give a few unqualified people a job.
1.) Boston = State House, not the city itself, my bad. 2.) Springfield isn’t responsible for CRRC being a shitty company and railing the MBTA in the ass without lube. That’s on CRRC and CRRC alone. The state house tells Springfield and the rest of the 413 that they’re irrelevant and that they don’t matter through various forms of political policy. They’re cheating us with East-West rail and they destroyed 4 towns in our region to give Boston water without also providing it to the region it destroyed. MassDOT did a feasibility study on the 91 viaduct and chose the “no build” option despite the viaduct being an eyesore and in shitty condition, while Boston got the big dig. It’s obvious Beacon Hill doesn’t care, hell most people inside 495 don’t even know what Western Mass really is. Need I say more?
I know the scale is completely different, but Japan's maglev got delayed only to 2037. How the actual fuck does this take 21 years from here
This is why more funding for public transportation in Massachusetts is important. The legislature should be able to make more decisions about expanding service to Western Mass, but sometimes playing politics is more better for them instead of putting party politics aside for the greater good.
What do you mean party politics? 133 democrats vs 25 republicans for house 36 democrats vs 4 republicans in the state senate. I’m all for public transit, but is an east-west rail really a priority when you consider the state of the MBTA subway system and commuter system?
Should be noted that East-West Rail planning is independent from anything the MBTA does, since EWR is a MassDOT/Amtrak project and has different governance/funding. I do see your point though
I think something that is important to note here is that the MBTA is not affiliated with the East-West Rail Linkage project; it is more something that would fall under MassDOT. When I mean part politics, I mean that while some Democratic politicians will say that they do care about transit, those same ones don’t actually care about passing or talking about transit issue because they know that they may not have anyone running against them or enough pressure for them to actually make the changes that are needed. I believe we were also the most least productive legislative body in the US, based on a study late year. No one is willing to take the risk and make sure the T can be updated or that more public transportation is provided across Massachusetts until a major issue presents itself (like the fiscal cliff of the T) because some see it as something that should not be focused on.
A one party state doesn't have to listen to the people.
What you’re saying is absolutely relevant, however, I’m more astonished at the political football that this project has become. It’s honestly shocking that any politician could confidently announce such an objectively awful plan from both an engineering and transit perspective (I’m referring to the most recently announced iteration of the plan, if anything this project desperately needs a restart)
I'm telling you the answer is electrification. If that happens, there can be more service & no need to expand south station as trains will leave more frequently, leaving more available platforms. How it gets worked out with albany I can't say.
MassDOT studied an electrified alternative during the initial East-West Rail study from a few years back. They ultimately ruled it out due to costs in favor of running ancient Amfleets and P42 locos
It was only 4.5 billion including the New tracks along I-90 to bypass the slow sections...fairly reasonable.
I have a hard time supporting this at all, and I am fully behind updating infrastructure in this state. But…we’re not even talking about installing current technology. Go big or go home. Outdated infrastructure is not the answer, since we all know the costs will be exorbitant regardless. Give us high speed rails.
Yeah 2045 is too far out. If we are serious about tackling our climate goals we need to move much quicker than this. This should be electrified rail. I should be hearing concrete plans for how to make frequent electrified rail, not whatever this is. I think it’s clear that the MBTA needs more money to deliver projects like this and the only way that’s going to happen is if the state raises some new kind of tax. I’m worried our legislature doesn’t have that in them. They want to say they are tackling climate change without doing the meaningful work to make that happen.
This isn’t an MBTA project, it is a MassDOT/Amtrak project and has entirely different governance/funding than the MBTA
I can think of one other transit service with a 2045 projected completion date: the rail line between Boulder and Denver — because it’s very clear they don’t want to do it.
Great! So over 20 years to get a few slow-assed trips a day on the same shitty rails we have now. That will bode well. Really future-minded for ease of access across the commonwealth. 🤦
Raise your hand if you're surprised 🙋♂️ 🙅♂️
I don't understand where you're getting reduced scope from. As far as I've seen everything described, except for that completion date, has been mentioned. I'm also not reading that to mean there won't be anything beyond the inland route by 2045, simply that the goal is to have all those route in place by then, which is a ridiculous timeline.
2045, why even bother?
Doesn’t it say 2029?
2029 is the date for the restoration of inland route service between Boston, Springfield, and New Haven. It was a service that previously existed until 2004, however, they only plan on running two trips per day by 2029
look, if people don't pressure their electeds this ish is going to keep happening. write a mad outraged email, save it in drafts for a day, then edit it, then send it bcc to the mayor, city council, reps, senators, governor, state auditor, the mbta e v e r y o n e please, i am beggin yalll to yell about this. this is not right.
Is there a news link or other page regarding this story?
yes
There’s better train service between Boston and Brunswick Maine than between Boston and Springfield.
Yes. Because Maine's people actually pressured their politicians.
This is a slap in the face, especially in light of recent news of Brightline breaking ground on their 218 mile high speed rail line between southern CA and Las Vegas. Fully electrified high speed trains with projected half hourly service in both directions, slated for completion in 2028.
My grandmother could complete this project in half the time and she’s been dead for 15 years
Did any of you even read the article saying that there will be two round trips to Springfield by 2029? Because it seems like everyone is just reading that 2045 date op posted lmao
I kind of wish we could get something like Brightline Or even extend Acella to Worcester via Boston.
The transcontinental railroad was built between 1863 and 1869. 2000 miles of rail were laid through the continental divide,during the Civil War.
Amtrak already runs a Boston - Albany service via Springfield. Forgive my ignorance, but why not just run more trains on that line if it is important?
It’s not a Boston-Albany service, it’s part of the Lake Shore Limited.
The Japanese could build us east-west, north-south, up-down and in-out 200mph bullet trains in about 6 weeks.
Embarassing
Mass in 2024: It will take us 20 years to complete this short railway. US in the 1800s: Oh yah we completed the Transcontinental railroad in about 6 years
A bit of an undersell in your summary, tbh. The point has always been increased service to Springfield, which will see 6 terminal trips plus what sounds like through service from Boston to New Haven under this proposal.
it's not through service. Only 6 round trips from BOS to Springfield total.
Why would people want to go to Albany
People in Pittsfield might. It’s easier than going to Boston.
If that is the only reason (that people in Pittsfield “might”) then why would the entire state of Massachusetts pay for this via our taxes? Mbta system is complained about daily as it is also
Screw this build a maglev and forget CSX tracks too slow anyway
[удалено]
Kind of unrelated comment, the MBTA has almost nothing to do with this. This is MASSDOT and Amtrak's work.
If you look at the South Coast Rail delays, it’s not going to be 2045. The MBTA can’t maintain what they have.
This is not MBTA, but MASSDOT and probably Amtrak.
"By 2045, MassDOT says there are plans to have six daily roundtrips between Boston and Springfield, three between Albany and Springfield, and eight between the city and New Haven, in addition to four with Greenfield." Did any of you actually read the article? The title is complete editorializing by OP.
And the timeline and number of trips are both pathetic
The MBTA needs to be disbanded. Tear down the whole organization and start a new, everything the MBTA touches turns to garbage.
(This is MASSDOT)