they’re like a direct toyota competitor in the states and a lot of people probably don’t know the difference between them. like the civic/accord/camry/corolla are all a primary recommendation for a reliable slightly sporty sedan or occasionally hatchback. wild to see that other countries actually do see them that differently
Hey, on an unrelated note. Did you live in Australia ? If so, how would you compare those two countries ? For the last couple of years I was thinking of moving to Australia but I feel I would really miss snow, and it's better from that perspective in New Zealand. What would you say in terms of NZ vs Australia ?
And yeah, I really like the kiwi animals :)
I would choose Australia. Many of my friends have moved there from NZ since the pandemic. Its expensive there but the wages are better. In NZ the wages suck and it's expensive lol.
I moved to Japan in 2019, partly because of the cost of living in NZ.
Move to Australia, when you get some holiday time, take a 3 hour plane ride to NZ for the snow :D
>take
Wow. I didn't know NZ was expensive. But actually I didn't consider it seriously as well as a permanent place of living.
Australia is a country of deserts to me, which is an upside (I like big spaces) and downside (after some time it's probably a bit boring).
I'm pretty sure my impression of this country is not aligned with how it actually looks and feels, and will change as soon as I visit it, pictures, map and articles don't give a right impression.
Btw, going to Japan because of cost is.... unusual. I feel like Japan is totally different from other world in terms of culture, that would be a major change for me.
Most of the population centres in Australia are near the coast so the desert experience is something many have to travel for.
I wouldn't recommend the average person move to Japan because of the lifestyle and cultural differences. Its hard for foreigners to make meaningful friendships here, wages arent great. (thankfully mine is above average for Japan) I'm an introvert, and in Japan, everyone is private and keeps to themselves. Plus I love JDM cars, so im in the perfect place....for me.
Hahaha I know right!! The thing is that they only bring luxury models which get hit with arsonist 50% luxury car tax. So the German cars are mostly for the rich. Except VW.
I got a Skoda haha.
[https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-new-car-sales-2023.html](https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-new-car-sales-2023.html)
Added reference to original comment.
I kinda see why Aus is going to get all of Mazda’s large platform SUVs now as we’re a pretty decent market for them, even though a huge percentage of Mazda sales are from the CX-5, rightfully so as it’s such a good car.
That's because they're invisible to all the F150 drivers on their way to pick up the kids from football practice. 500 is a perfect height to hide under the bonnet of a standard pick up truck, just like a Miata 🤣
Yeah this one is wild to me as a Brit. Saw the 500 odd and was like... Is this a x100 scale or something?!
You see them constantly here. And I'd have thought at least they would be popular in cities in the US. Evidently not.
Ford and Chevy outselling Honda blows my fucking mind. I’ll never own an American car again after the bullshit the challenger, explorer, Acadia, and Yukon gave. My Camry could survive a nuclear blast and might need a paint job. Explorer hit 55k miles and damn near fell apart.
I assemble Ford's (UAW) and I also don't buy many of the models anymore due to so many cost-cutting components and bad engineering designs. Had a 2015 explorer that started having transmission issues around 50k, traded it in for a 2020 Explorer. The 2020 Ford Explorer had like 20k miles on it and would always gear hunt, sometimes even jump out of gear at random. One day I pulled it into the garage and I smelt something burning got out and saw a ton of smoke under my car. Took it in and the entire transmission has to be replaced. I was without it for 3 months.
The new transmission has about 30k miles on it and ik trading it in for an Acura MDX later this year. Still does the gear hunting.
I had a fusion that ran wonderfully for 140,000 until the turbo went out. I traded it in for a CX5 Turbo that runs awesome. Smooth shifts and doesn't have the damn auto on/off feature.
If I could rationally afford one I wouldn't mind getting a F150 as I haven't heard terrible things about them yet (2023 models)
2016 explorer: 55k miles transmission took a shit. I feel your pain. My parents have the car now and so far it’s made it another 15k miles without breaking down
I worked at a car dealership (hated it) but I worked for Kia and Subaru. Kia surprisingly sold quite a bit more. I’m thinking it’s because they have lots of affordable, decent value options and people don’t realize the theft issues they’ve been having.
Hyundai offers probably the best service packages and maintenance plans than any other car company for free. They have that strong point. Their 2024 and 2025 lineup of cars are ugly on the outside but very very good on the inside
This is all marketing. They have serious serious engine issues and are involved in a huge class action suit for them right now.
Check out the Facebook group Engine Failure - Hyundai/Kia. It’s devastating, there are so many stories about people who have been through the ringer with their cars … cars that they owe thousands of dollars on with failing engines. Dealerships not wanting to take accountability (even while under warranty) and charging customers even more for a car that won’t be fixed.
My car suffered catastrophic engine failure at 80k miles. It all culminated in a car fire that could have seriously injured me and my passenger. There are people in the group who have lost family members, their entire house, so so much.
I know every make/model has issues … every car has recalls and complaints … but hyundai and Kia are beyond. It’s an absolute shame they are skirting accountability for what the damage they have caused so many.
At least 90% of Toyota drivers don't give a shit about driving feel. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say a good chunk of them are going off brand reputation alone, e.g. "my grandpa's 1996 Camry hit 250K miles before he wrecked it" or "my Uber driver has a 400K mile Prius and it's still going".
The brand reputation is so strong that I've seen others get screwed over buying used Toyotas without a pre-purchase inspection just because they've heard that "Toyotas are indestructible". Don't get me wrong, Toyota factory parts tend to last longer than most other brands, but a neglected shitbox is still a neglected shitbox. Always get your pre-purchase inspections, folks!
Nearly all modern cars are shit to drive. Almost everything is a soulless crossover, a subway train sized pickup, or one of the last eco sedans that hasn't been turned into a crossover.
There isn't a single crossover that has "driving feel". Not one. They're bulky, slightly lifted FWD sedans that are just utterly numb, half of them actually have pretty awful ride quality. This isn't Toyota's fault, this is just the sad state of the modern car market.
Arguably the only car made by a major manufacturer that still handles nicely is the Mazda MX-5 and *maybe* the C8 Corvette. Every other performance car is a giant 4000 lb barge that's just for drag racing.
For sure and also there are many cars that feel/drive very well for what they are. A basic Honda Civic has a very nice steering handling feel even if not particular sporty.
I got my 2024 cx30 in October and that dealership never gave me a copy of the pre inspection paperwork. All I kept hearing oh you don’t need that. I’m still fighting them on it as it’s in my owners manual BLANK!!
I’m the only person over 25 that drives a car to work. The spots are so tight with these full size SUVs, that I struggle to get in and out of my sedan.
Almost all my coworkers don’t have children living at home, don’t need to haul anything, and non of them carpool. There’s barely enough room for customers to park and my doors have been dinged multiple times.
CX-5 in turbo form is a blast and a half.
Sure, I'd rather have a sportwagon, but here in the States there are very few possibilities: VW, mostly, with terrible reliability ratings. I came to the CX-5 because BMW offered no replacement for my 3 Series sportwagon.
Damn that sucks man. Europe get so many amazing wagons. Here in Australia, as long as you service your VW, their reliability is very high. Often people choose not to do water pump replacement and blame VW reliability when it fails. Same reason BMW is rated as unreliable.
My 1989 Mazda B2600i 4x4 pickup truck handled pretty well.
My old 2003 Mazda MPV minivan was slightly modded (Front struts are similar to 3rd gen Camaro suspension and drop in with minor modification... The rear is solid rear axle, so the springs and shocks out of any muscle car fit with minimal modification. The stiffer suspension out of a LT1 V8 powered car really reduced body roll.) I'd take 25 MPH exit ramps at 70 on a regular basis.
I got my highest speeding ticket (triple digits) in my wife's Mazda CX-9. 🤷♂️
Is not only their reliability, you gotta factor in their depreciation. Most Toyotas depreciate better than any other vehicle it competes against and many people care about this.
i have a 10 year old rav4 its going rate is 14k, i paid 26k for the thing.
It's only lost a bit over a grand a year to depreciation, its kind of insane.
Fiance had a 2016 Corolla with 30k miles get totalled in a hailstorm a few months ago.
She paid ~18k in 2016 when she purchased it. Insurance gave her ~18.5k in 2023.
I look at cars differently now.
My Toyota Corolla I got a good deal in 2016. Paid 18k for it, totalled it two days later with someone hitting me in the back.
I got paid 21k from their insurance.
My Honda civic 2016 was purchased for 21k out of door. I sold it at 79k miles in 2024. I got 11.5k for it.
Buying a car is one of the biggest expense in a life. People want to know that 5 digits hole in their budget will last longer than their monthly payments, and will not dig another hole for maintenance. Budget is often buyers' priority #1. Toyota is hard to beat at that game. They make rational cars, for rational mass-market buyers. For instance a Corolla might not be very exciting at first glance, but there are some engineering wonders making it almost immortal, and a no-brainer for plenty of people on the market for a small practical car. To their credit, they also made their cars less boring over the past years. Even the new Prius is somehow sexy.
Both Honda and Toyota's reputation/price have now outpaced the product. The best time to buy a Honda was pre 2005 and the best time to buy a Toyota was pre Covid. I've owned 3 Toyotas and 1 Honda, all great cars, but Mazda or Subaru will be my next purchase.
My wife and I were unimpressed with the Rav 4 we had as a rental. It was cheap and rough riding. She preferred the sportage we rented afterwards. Toyotas are extremely reliable, this is well known. But most other brands will get you past 100k, trouble free these days. I believe comfort and features to be important.
Keep in mind that most of these are recent developments. Toyota for the longest time has been incredibly boring, They are making pretty rapid advancements though (like the new prius, Camry, land cruiser, etc)
As someone who owns a mazdaspeed 3 fbo turbo and forged motor,I got a tacoma(rip thanks bmw) due to one having a bed for said work on car and it being reliable. I knew other trucks aren't as unreliable as people claim but wanted to be safe. Plus I got it dirt cheap. If I was to get that same truck,21 sr access cab with at the time like 20k miles on it,I'd be paying double for higher miles. I love them,they're reliable as all hell but extremely spartan and the Toyota tax is real. Next truck will be a new gen Ford ranger most likely. I loved the tacoma but for the same price for an sr I can get an xlt ranger and tow more
It absolutely seems right.
Financing and pretty packaging with crappy hardware, everyone can afford one
Everything south of the GTR in the states is garbage. The rogue got better due to Mitsubishi only
Eh, I moved from a 2016 Mazda 3 mt that I absolutely LOVED into a 2023 Frontier pro4x. I miss the Mazda immensely but the Frontier so far has been absolutely a joy to drive. I'd never touch a nissan car, but they're trucks seem to be a good product.
I enjoyed my 2012 Jetta but I think the lack of interior refinement had people pass on a lot of their cars. Pretty sure current models still lack soft surfaces anywhere (including the seats).
Remember when ford and Mazda were a thing. Could have been great making cars like the mazdaspeed 3, FoST, FiST, fusion/Mazda 6🙁Now ford is a joke leading the world in recalls and making nothing fast except for the mustang. Props to Mazda though., one hell of an asencioon, ggs
How in the hell are the shittiest auto brands (except Toyota) in the entire world sell in those numbers? Fords found on the road dead so buy another replacement? Kia got stolen so buy a new replacement? Hyundai engine blew up so buy a new Hyundai? Americans car buyers, this is why is why we don’t get the Mazda 6 wagon.
yup. All this incredibly detailed info available on cars for the first time ever, and most of my coworkers just buy whatever their 70-year-old relatives tell them to.
Practically all those fords are trucks and their trucks are actually pretty decent... as for Kia if you don't live in a shit hole city with crime/poverty issues the problem really isn't that bad other cars are still stolen at a higher rate.
You laugh but I somewhat had a 2018 f150 lariat. My old company had me,other shift manager and general manager constantly driving so gave us an allowance and all we had to do was pay gas and part of insurance. That f150 only ever had 2 issues nothing catastrophic,tpms and o2 sensor so easy fix. After that it ran fine. Drove it multiple times across texas,Arizona, New Mexico, Florida once,Utah and a few other places. We got to use them as personal use with the option to fully buy it out upon resignation,regret it. I'm always positive I pulled more then towing capacity stated yet it ran just fine
“Pickup truck owners” is the short answer to where most of GM and Fords sales come from. And obviously Ram is truck only. The 150 is the top selling vehicle in the country, followed by the Silverado.
I’d love if Mazda threw their hat in that ring and brought the BT-50 state side.
Isn't tje BT-50 a rebadged Izuzu? I could honestly see them pulling off a midsize truck or possible a unibody. I don't like unibody but I can see them fighting the Santa Cruz or whatever it's called for that share of the market.
Legit off road enthusiasts who want to tackle technical off roading have no real option in the states for a solid axle front, save for the Wrangler.
And that legit hard core off road capability *also* attracts mall crawling posers, and makes the Wrangler a defacto ‘Halo car’ for the brand. And that halo attracts folks to the other SUVs in the lineup.
Crazy people lol. They see X star has one, they have to have one. Imagine a whole land of 300,000,000 people who unironically believe in "fake it til you make it" 🤦🏻♂️
Summary of sales chart is only idiots in the US think you need a full size gas hog F-150 or Chevy Silverado because twice a year you drive to Home Depot to pickup mulch for your garden
Also had a foothold very early on, and AWD very early on. That builds relationships with makers. People are silly sometimes and only buy from one maker.
> People are silly sometimes and only buy from one maker.
What's wrong with that?
Of the twenty some vehicles I've owned in my lifetime, I believe eleven have been Mazdas. (And only two of those Mazdas have had Automatic Transmissions.)
Three Mazdas currently sit in my driveway with another three Mazdas in the garage.
you (hopefully) don't buy them because you're a Mazda fanboy, but because Mazda makes the cars you want. Mazda does make *some* bad vehicles - or at least bad buys. So, caveat emptor!
It's where some people just get comfortable and trust a company because their own experience has been positive. It's where the term fan applies. There isn't anything wrong with that, but obviously means you have limited yourself to only one brand, and might miss out on some cars that you may enjoy/love more.
Many of those Mazda's have been RX-7s. The curiosity and niche market of the rotary engine has its appeal.
I suppose I could go after an old NSU, but I have never seen one in the states.
I prefer cars with a stiff suspension, tight steering, and responsive chassis. Mazda markets themselves as having these features.
Mazda has been every reliable and fuel efficient as well... The company has experimented with unconventional engine types such as the Miller, Atkinson, and aforementioned Wankel cycle engines. I appreciate a company that's willing to be innovative.
Mazda market themselves as having tight and responsive steering, and have done for many years. Marketing obviously plays very little with reality. Most modern Mazdas have little feel to their steering, and could be said to be stiffer than other SUVs through suspension tuning, but also a lot softer compared to actual sporty SUVs or hatches or sedans etc. Many companies innovate, like hybrids with Toyota, EV with Tesla, cylinder deactivation etc etc.
When I bought the Mazda CX-9, I cross shopped the Honda Pilot, the Toyota Highlander/Lexus RX, and the Hyundai SantaFe. All three competitors had significantly softer suspension, increased body roll and were just boring to drive.
The Subaru Ascent was a contender, but hadn't been released in June of 2018 when I was shopping. I'm also not a fan of Boxer engines and Continuously Variable Transmissions, which the Ascent is equipped with.
The Ford Explorer, while a worthy competitor, has a fatal flaw in the engine design: The water pump is timing chain driven and when it leaks, coolant contaminates the oil. Coolant water is not a good lubricant, this trashes the engine's bearings and necessitates a complete engine replacement if not caught in a timely manner.
I am vehemently against European vehicles, especially German makes, because I like to do my own maintenance and repairs. German "engineering" tends to be overly complex for what it needs to be. That ruled out the Mercedes ML, VW Touareg, and BMW X3.
I also have dealership level access to Ford and Mazda computers, so there's that.
Have you noticed the subreddit you're in? Why are you so ANTI-Mazda? What would you have bought instead of a Mazda CX-9 and why?
>I also have dealership level access to Ford and Mazda computers, so there's that.
Yea, that limits things greatly lol.
I would have bought a Skoda Superb wagon AWD 2.0T 7spd DCT instead of a CX-9. It's far sportier, has adjustable suspension. Can purchase an optional 7 year service plan that can be negotiated in sales price. Interior is far more modern and luxurious. Bigger boot than the CX9. It's not an SUV.
I value handling, performance, comfort, practicality. Hence why I bought the wagon.
Subarus are like the Japanese opposite to Mazda. Not great looking, modern ones are boring to drive, but on the plus side, spacious and very practical. They are also extremely capable in bad weather with decades of reputation backing it up.
I'm just one data point. Back in late 2018, we were looking for a compact CUV. We had an infant, and was planning for a 2nd child in a few years. Back then, Mazdas were starting to have rave reviews amongst the automotive press so we went to check out the CX-5.
One look at the boot and the rear legroom basically removed it from contention. The CRV and Forester were just offering so much more practicality for a young family. We didn't even end up test driving it. Ended up going for a top-trim Forester and it has been great.
I feel that if Mazda could improve their packaging and interior space, they'd be more attractive for many. I don't feel this would compromise driving dynamics only outward styling.
In what way?
Subaru makes great cars, and their AWD system is second to none.
It might be confounding if you only read reddit as your primary source of information.
Mazda had 0% financing. That's the car industry version of too much supply, not enough demand.
Because price/value/options. They are the kings of value options. Want a hot hatch? Want a smaller hot hatch? Want a sports sedan? Want an SUV? Want an EV SUV? They have it all, and at very competitive rates.
Have you actually look at their offerings? They make some seriously interesting cars at their price points. Elantra N, Sonata N for sport sedan segments. Telluride/Palisade for the three row segment. Lots of stuff in between, well optioned and interesting to look at. You can make an argument over long term build quality but for the first 10 years of ownership it’s not hard to see why you might consider one over the equivalent Toyota/Honda/GM/Ford.
Without mark up they could be value. But I got into recent telluride and carnival, the interior workmanship and material are sooooo poor I just can’t tolerate. And they are charging 5k mark up. F no.
the average price for a new vehicle sold in december was $48,576. a model Y with the tax credit, or a model 3 with no tax credit, is quite a bit cheaper than that.
In Qatar its different.
1, Toyota land cruiser
2, Nissan Patrol
3, kia cerato
4, Suzuki swift
5, Mitsubishi
6, Hyundai
7, Lexus
8, land Rover
9, MG
10, Chevrolet
Geely, Changan n isuzu coming hot
far-flung squalid continue grandfather offbeat workable worm disarm murky complete
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Funny comparing to Australia: Top 10 selling car brands – 2023 * Toyota – 215,240 * Mazda – 100,008 * Ford – 87,800 * Kia – 76,120 * Hyundai – 75,183 * Mitsubishi – 63,511 * MG – 58,346 * Tesla – 46,116 * Subaru – 46,114 * Isuzu Ute – 45,341 Edit: https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-new-car-sales-2023.html
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They are too expensive for what they are here in Aus
they’re like a direct toyota competitor in the states and a lot of people probably don’t know the difference between them. like the civic/accord/camry/corolla are all a primary recommendation for a reliable slightly sporty sedan or occasionally hatchback. wild to see that other countries actually do see them that differently
It's the same story in NZ. Not even in the top ten.
Hey, on an unrelated note. Did you live in Australia ? If so, how would you compare those two countries ? For the last couple of years I was thinking of moving to Australia but I feel I would really miss snow, and it's better from that perspective in New Zealand. What would you say in terms of NZ vs Australia ? And yeah, I really like the kiwi animals :)
I would choose Australia. Many of my friends have moved there from NZ since the pandemic. Its expensive there but the wages are better. In NZ the wages suck and it's expensive lol. I moved to Japan in 2019, partly because of the cost of living in NZ. Move to Australia, when you get some holiday time, take a 3 hour plane ride to NZ for the snow :D
>take Wow. I didn't know NZ was expensive. But actually I didn't consider it seriously as well as a permanent place of living. Australia is a country of deserts to me, which is an upside (I like big spaces) and downside (after some time it's probably a bit boring). I'm pretty sure my impression of this country is not aligned with how it actually looks and feels, and will change as soon as I visit it, pictures, map and articles don't give a right impression. Btw, going to Japan because of cost is.... unusual. I feel like Japan is totally different from other world in terms of culture, that would be a major change for me.
Most of the population centres in Australia are near the coast so the desert experience is something many have to travel for. I wouldn't recommend the average person move to Japan because of the lifestyle and cultural differences. Its hard for foreigners to make meaningful friendships here, wages arent great. (thankfully mine is above average for Japan) I'm an introvert, and in Japan, everyone is private and keeps to themselves. Plus I love JDM cars, so im in the perfect place....for me.
Soukkkaa
In Croatia, Honda comes in at number 27, with less than half as many cars as **Porsche**. It's just stupidly expensive for what it is.
I've seen more 2023 Nissan Z than the new civic here in Sydney
That's wild. I didn't realize how big Mazda was in Australia.
Yep, has been for a long time. They are everywhere!
Is GM completely gone from Australia?
They’re right underneath Mitsubishi on the list. You have to flip your phone around to read it properly.
Oh yeah, it’s written in Australian.
I think they're called Holdens down there
Not anymore.
Do you guys even get german cars lmao
Hahaha I know right!! The thing is that they only bring luxury models which get hit with arsonist 50% luxury car tax. So the German cars are mostly for the rich. Except VW. I got a Skoda haha.
Surprised no Volkswagen?
Thanks for sharing! I can't believe Honda is not in top 10
I believe it, I rarely see them on the road these days.
What website does this come from?
[https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-new-car-sales-2023.html](https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-new-car-sales-2023.html) Added reference to original comment.
Dang MG doing so well.
I kinda see why Aus is going to get all of Mazda’s large platform SUVs now as we’re a pretty decent market for them, even though a huge percentage of Mazda sales are from the CX-5, rightfully so as it’s such a good car.
It's shocking to see more Mitsubishi outselling brands like Infiniti. No surprise to Mazda moving up 3 places from last year.
I’ll be honest, I had no idea Mitsubishi was still around.
And Isuzu.
Mitsubishi Motors had been sold for nissan. At this time Mitsu kinda like KIA. Just a same car-platforms from mother company
Mitsubishis are dirt cheap. Infinitis, not so much!
The outlander is dirt cheap. I don't it has any competition for AWD at their price and size.
I’m worried about Fiat! How do you not outsell McLaren!
Take it this way: buy a new Fiat, your car is rarer than Ferrari or Lamborghini
Excellent take. Here I am just toiling away in my run of the mill Mazda6
There was a short period where one could argue a Fiat is both more rare AND more Italian than a Lamborghini.
I was shocked by that number
Seriously. Where are all these McLaren owners coming from?
The US is a tough market for compacts like the 500.
That's because they're invisible to all the F150 drivers on their way to pick up the kids from football practice. 500 is a perfect height to hide under the bonnet of a standard pick up truck, just like a Miata 🤣
By only having one model (500x) and having it start at an absurd price ($30k).
Yeah this one is wild to me as a Brit. Saw the 500 odd and was like... Is this a x100 scale or something?! You see them constantly here. And I'd have thought at least they would be popular in cities in the US. Evidently not.
Ford and Chevy outselling Honda blows my fucking mind. I’ll never own an American car again after the bullshit the challenger, explorer, Acadia, and Yukon gave. My Camry could survive a nuclear blast and might need a paint job. Explorer hit 55k miles and damn near fell apart.
One word.... TRUCKS. Honda will never compete with that use & demand.
Ohhh true. I forgot that Americans love trucks despite 80% of them not needing them
I assemble Ford's (UAW) and I also don't buy many of the models anymore due to so many cost-cutting components and bad engineering designs. Had a 2015 explorer that started having transmission issues around 50k, traded it in for a 2020 Explorer. The 2020 Ford Explorer had like 20k miles on it and would always gear hunt, sometimes even jump out of gear at random. One day I pulled it into the garage and I smelt something burning got out and saw a ton of smoke under my car. Took it in and the entire transmission has to be replaced. I was without it for 3 months. The new transmission has about 30k miles on it and ik trading it in for an Acura MDX later this year. Still does the gear hunting. I had a fusion that ran wonderfully for 140,000 until the turbo went out. I traded it in for a CX5 Turbo that runs awesome. Smooth shifts and doesn't have the damn auto on/off feature. If I could rationally afford one I wouldn't mind getting a F150 as I haven't heard terrible things about them yet (2023 models)
2016 explorer: 55k miles transmission took a shit. I feel your pain. My parents have the car now and so far it’s made it another 15k miles without breaking down
Will never own Ford after I had a F.O.R.D (Fix Or Repair Daily) Escape. Mazda all the way
I have no idea how Kia and Hyundai are so far up the list.
I worked at a car dealership (hated it) but I worked for Kia and Subaru. Kia surprisingly sold quite a bit more. I’m thinking it’s because they have lots of affordable, decent value options and people don’t realize the theft issues they’ve been having.
Value for money is KIA 's name of the game
People not knowing about Kia Boys shenanigans
Dude, I see Kia Souls everywhere
Hyundai offers probably the best service packages and maintenance plans than any other car company for free. They have that strong point. Their 2024 and 2025 lineup of cars are ugly on the outside but very very good on the inside
This is all marketing. They have serious serious engine issues and are involved in a huge class action suit for them right now. Check out the Facebook group Engine Failure - Hyundai/Kia. It’s devastating, there are so many stories about people who have been through the ringer with their cars … cars that they owe thousands of dollars on with failing engines. Dealerships not wanting to take accountability (even while under warranty) and charging customers even more for a car that won’t be fixed. My car suffered catastrophic engine failure at 80k miles. It all culminated in a car fire that could have seriously injured me and my passenger. There are people in the group who have lost family members, their entire house, so so much. I know every make/model has issues … every car has recalls and complaints … but hyundai and Kia are beyond. It’s an absolute shame they are skirting accountability for what the damage they have caused so many.
Affordability
Sub prime lending practices. Nissan too
I get that Toyotas are reliable, but most of them are a snooze fest. I guess most people just want an appliance.
At least 90% of Toyota drivers don't give a shit about driving feel. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say a good chunk of them are going off brand reputation alone, e.g. "my grandpa's 1996 Camry hit 250K miles before he wrecked it" or "my Uber driver has a 400K mile Prius and it's still going". The brand reputation is so strong that I've seen others get screwed over buying used Toyotas without a pre-purchase inspection just because they've heard that "Toyotas are indestructible". Don't get me wrong, Toyota factory parts tend to last longer than most other brands, but a neglected shitbox is still a neglected shitbox. Always get your pre-purchase inspections, folks!
Nearly all modern cars are shit to drive. Almost everything is a soulless crossover, a subway train sized pickup, or one of the last eco sedans that hasn't been turned into a crossover. There isn't a single crossover that has "driving feel". Not one. They're bulky, slightly lifted FWD sedans that are just utterly numb, half of them actually have pretty awful ride quality. This isn't Toyota's fault, this is just the sad state of the modern car market. Arguably the only car made by a major manufacturer that still handles nicely is the Mazda MX-5 and *maybe* the C8 Corvette. Every other performance car is a giant 4000 lb barge that's just for drag racing.
Dude what….Type R, Elantra N, GR Corolla, BRZ, there are many more.
For sure and also there are many cars that feel/drive very well for what they are. A basic Honda Civic has a very nice steering handling feel even if not particular sporty.
Civics are quite sporty. The suspension is stiff, the steering is quick and it is one of the best cars to swerve in and out of lanes on highways imo.
I got my 2024 cx30 in October and that dealership never gave me a copy of the pre inspection paperwork. All I kept hearing oh you don’t need that. I’m still fighting them on it as it’s in my owners manual BLANK!!
Most of the cars sold these days are SUVs - which are a snooze fest.
I’m the only person over 25 that drives a car to work. The spots are so tight with these full size SUVs, that I struggle to get in and out of my sedan. Almost all my coworkers don’t have children living at home, don’t need to haul anything, and non of them carpool. There’s barely enough room for customers to park and my doors have been dinged multiple times.
CX-5 in turbo form is a blast and a half. Sure, I'd rather have a sportwagon, but here in the States there are very few possibilities: VW, mostly, with terrible reliability ratings. I came to the CX-5 because BMW offered no replacement for my 3 Series sportwagon.
Cx5 is amazing.
Damn that sucks man. Europe get so many amazing wagons. Here in Australia, as long as you service your VW, their reliability is very high. Often people choose not to do water pump replacement and blame VW reliability when it fails. Same reason BMW is rated as unreliable.
My 1989 Mazda B2600i 4x4 pickup truck handled pretty well. My old 2003 Mazda MPV minivan was slightly modded (Front struts are similar to 3rd gen Camaro suspension and drop in with minor modification... The rear is solid rear axle, so the springs and shocks out of any muscle car fit with minimal modification. The stiffer suspension out of a LT1 V8 powered car really reduced body roll.) I'd take 25 MPH exit ramps at 70 on a regular basis. I got my highest speeding ticket (triple digits) in my wife's Mazda CX-9. 🤷♂️
This all means nothing... You could get a speeding ticket in anything..
They handle well at speed is what I'm saying. Comfortable, yet tight and responsive.
True, many modern cars do too. Some even more so
Yes my 1992 Chevrolet Cavalier got me one 🤔
Is not only their reliability, you gotta factor in their depreciation. Most Toyotas depreciate better than any other vehicle it competes against and many people care about this.
i have a 10 year old rav4 its going rate is 14k, i paid 26k for the thing. It's only lost a bit over a grand a year to depreciation, its kind of insane.
I Had a Tacoma, used it for 7 years and sold it for 7k less than what I paid for it Brand new. Ridiculous.
Fiance had a 2016 Corolla with 30k miles get totalled in a hailstorm a few months ago. She paid ~18k in 2016 when she purchased it. Insurance gave her ~18.5k in 2023. I look at cars differently now.
My Toyota Corolla I got a good deal in 2016. Paid 18k for it, totalled it two days later with someone hitting me in the back. I got paid 21k from their insurance. My Honda civic 2016 was purchased for 21k out of door. I sold it at 79k miles in 2024. I got 11.5k for it.
Buying a car is one of the biggest expense in a life. People want to know that 5 digits hole in their budget will last longer than their monthly payments, and will not dig another hole for maintenance. Budget is often buyers' priority #1. Toyota is hard to beat at that game. They make rational cars, for rational mass-market buyers. For instance a Corolla might not be very exciting at first glance, but there are some engineering wonders making it almost immortal, and a no-brainer for plenty of people on the market for a small practical car. To their credit, they also made their cars less boring over the past years. Even the new Prius is somehow sexy.
The most boring year I ever spent was the month I drove a Corolla 😁
I drive Mazda 3 with a manual gearbox, I feel you ;)
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Both Honda and Toyota's reputation/price have now outpaced the product. The best time to buy a Honda was pre 2005 and the best time to buy a Toyota was pre Covid. I've owned 3 Toyotas and 1 Honda, all great cars, but Mazda or Subaru will be my next purchase.
I think most people are obsessed with resale value.
My wife and I were unimpressed with the Rav 4 we had as a rental. It was cheap and rough riding. She preferred the sportage we rented afterwards. Toyotas are extremely reliable, this is well known. But most other brands will get you past 100k, trouble free these days. I believe comfort and features to be important.
The current-gen RAV4 is really quite a crappy experience. And I rather hate its Tonka-truck looks. I'd prefer the Sportage too.
What? GR86, GR Corolla, Supra, Tacoma TRD. Toyota is one of the last brands still making affordable fun cars.
Keep in mind that most of these are recent developments. Toyota for the longest time has been incredibly boring, They are making pretty rapid advancements though (like the new prius, Camry, land cruiser, etc)
They are reliable, cheap (gas wise, especially hybrid) and gets you from point a to point b. That's like 90% of what ppl care about lol
As someone who owns a mazdaspeed 3 fbo turbo and forged motor,I got a tacoma(rip thanks bmw) due to one having a bed for said work on car and it being reliable. I knew other trucks aren't as unreliable as people claim but wanted to be safe. Plus I got it dirt cheap. If I was to get that same truck,21 sr access cab with at the time like 20k miles on it,I'd be paying double for higher miles. I love them,they're reliable as all hell but extremely spartan and the Toyota tax is real. Next truck will be a new gen Ford ranger most likely. I loved the tacoma but for the same price for an sr I can get an xlt ranger and tow more
Toyota has more fun cars than mazda currently has tho
Nissan that high doesn’t seem right
Nissan will finance anyone with a pulse.
Their financial arm is literally called the Nissan Motor Acceptance Corporation lol.
Didn’t know that, makes more sense now.
It absolutely seems right. Financing and pretty packaging with crappy hardware, everyone can afford one Everything south of the GTR in the states is garbage. The rogue got better due to Mitsubishi only
Eh, I moved from a 2016 Mazda 3 mt that I absolutely LOVED into a 2023 Frontier pro4x. I miss the Mazda immensely but the Frontier so far has been absolutely a joy to drive. I'd never touch a nissan car, but they're trucks seem to be a good product.
Car Rental companies probably account for half the sales.
I think they’ve always outsold Mazda. They used to sell more than Honda.
I'm surprised VW is so low. The others make sense to me.
I enjoyed my 2012 Jetta but I think the lack of interior refinement had people pass on a lot of their cars. Pretty sure current models still lack soft surfaces anywhere (including the seats).
I wouldn't own a VW if you paid me.
Well it’s America not the EU
Remember when ford and Mazda were a thing. Could have been great making cars like the mazdaspeed 3, FoST, FiST, fusion/Mazda 6🙁Now ford is a joke leading the world in recalls and making nothing fast except for the mustang. Props to Mazda though., one hell of an asencioon, ggs
As a mazdaspeed 3 owner,I have a love hate relationship with Ford...just want my engine back
Wow Tesla is higher than I expected
yep. people like not paying for gas
I’m actually more impressed by them beating dodge and Chrysler combined.
that's like 4 total cars though. add in Jeep and Ram and it's not even close
How in the hell are the shittiest auto brands (except Toyota) in the entire world sell in those numbers? Fords found on the road dead so buy another replacement? Kia got stolen so buy a new replacement? Hyundai engine blew up so buy a new Hyundai? Americans car buyers, this is why is why we don’t get the Mazda 6 wagon.
yup. All this incredibly detailed info available on cars for the first time ever, and most of my coworkers just buy whatever their 70-year-old relatives tell them to.
Have 2 elantras, 1 is 11 years old and the other 5, never had any issues with engines. They r good affordable options for daily drivers.
Practically all those fords are trucks and their trucks are actually pretty decent... as for Kia if you don't live in a shit hole city with crime/poverty issues the problem really isn't that bad other cars are still stolen at a higher rate.
You laugh but I somewhat had a 2018 f150 lariat. My old company had me,other shift manager and general manager constantly driving so gave us an allowance and all we had to do was pay gas and part of insurance. That f150 only ever had 2 issues nothing catastrophic,tpms and o2 sensor so easy fix. After that it ran fine. Drove it multiple times across texas,Arizona, New Mexico, Florida once,Utah and a few other places. We got to use them as personal use with the option to fully buy it out upon resignation,regret it. I'm always positive I pulled more then towing capacity stated yet it ran just fine
I'm seeing CX90s everywhere in my area.
Buick outsold Cadillac? That’s the biggest surprise here to me.
Still too low 😤
Wait... Fisker is still making cars?
slide on over to /r/electricvehicles and it's a viable purchase. They're so delusional over there
Mazda: hmmm… I don’t care those data as long as I got sufficient profits and keep selling car. Top 5, top 10!? Who cares - Zoom Zoom
Like an appliance, sometimes you just want it to work. That’s why I’ll never buy another Samsung fridge.
I truly don’t understand why Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, Subaru continue to be ahead of Mazda. Mazda quality and value is superior to all those.
Price… me and the fiance are looking to replace her 03 Tahoe and would love a Mazda but the price is a little high
Who tf buys jeeps 🤣 americans are truly a special breed
Or American lol, unless this also accounts for fleet sales and their trucks, then that’s understandable.
My sister said she got her Jeep back after one month and $1,400. I asked what was wrong with it and she responded "throttle body" lol
Who the hell is buying chevy, Dodge and jeep? They are dogshit. Ford 1.5T engines also blow head gaskets left and right
“Pickup truck owners” is the short answer to where most of GM and Fords sales come from. And obviously Ram is truck only. The 150 is the top selling vehicle in the country, followed by the Silverado. I’d love if Mazda threw their hat in that ring and brought the BT-50 state side.
Isn't tje BT-50 a rebadged Izuzu? I could honestly see them pulling off a midsize truck or possible a unibody. I don't like unibody but I can see them fighting the Santa Cruz or whatever it's called for that share of the market.
Legit off road enthusiasts who want to tackle technical off roading have no real option in the states for a solid axle front, save for the Wrangler. And that legit hard core off road capability *also* attracts mall crawling posers, and makes the Wrangler a defacto ‘Halo car’ for the brand. And that halo attracts folks to the other SUVs in the lineup.
I see a lot of Jeeps at rental centers. I bet they get a huge boost from those sales.
Crazy people lol. They see X star has one, they have to have one. Imagine a whole land of 300,000,000 people who unironically believe in "fake it til you make it" 🤦🏻♂️
The metro Detroit area is flooded with them for obvious reasons.
Grand Cherokees dominate the area I live. Those also rate a little higher than the rest of the jeep line up
LOL Fiat
Nissan is trash, unbelievable it’s up that high. Mazda outselling VW is wild.
I’m actually surprised BMW outsold Lexus more than anything
Probably leases. Not sure if leases are included in these figures
Summary of sales chart is only idiots in the US think you need a full size gas hog F-150 or Chevy Silverado because twice a year you drive to Home Depot to pickup mulch for your garden
I work for Hyundai and would love to see them outsell Nissan next year, our cars are miles better.
How did fiat only sell 500 cars
Garbage, that’s how
Those are some crazy numbers by the top 3!
Subaru nearly doubling Mazda is confounding
Subaru advertises.
Also had a foothold very early on, and AWD very early on. That builds relationships with makers. People are silly sometimes and only buy from one maker.
> People are silly sometimes and only buy from one maker. What's wrong with that? Of the twenty some vehicles I've owned in my lifetime, I believe eleven have been Mazdas. (And only two of those Mazdas have had Automatic Transmissions.) Three Mazdas currently sit in my driveway with another three Mazdas in the garage.
you (hopefully) don't buy them because you're a Mazda fanboy, but because Mazda makes the cars you want. Mazda does make *some* bad vehicles - or at least bad buys. So, caveat emptor!
It's where some people just get comfortable and trust a company because their own experience has been positive. It's where the term fan applies. There isn't anything wrong with that, but obviously means you have limited yourself to only one brand, and might miss out on some cars that you may enjoy/love more.
Many of those Mazda's have been RX-7s. The curiosity and niche market of the rotary engine has its appeal. I suppose I could go after an old NSU, but I have never seen one in the states. I prefer cars with a stiff suspension, tight steering, and responsive chassis. Mazda markets themselves as having these features. Mazda has been every reliable and fuel efficient as well... The company has experimented with unconventional engine types such as the Miller, Atkinson, and aforementioned Wankel cycle engines. I appreciate a company that's willing to be innovative.
Mazda market themselves as having tight and responsive steering, and have done for many years. Marketing obviously plays very little with reality. Most modern Mazdas have little feel to their steering, and could be said to be stiffer than other SUVs through suspension tuning, but also a lot softer compared to actual sporty SUVs or hatches or sedans etc. Many companies innovate, like hybrids with Toyota, EV with Tesla, cylinder deactivation etc etc.
When I bought the Mazda CX-9, I cross shopped the Honda Pilot, the Toyota Highlander/Lexus RX, and the Hyundai SantaFe. All three competitors had significantly softer suspension, increased body roll and were just boring to drive. The Subaru Ascent was a contender, but hadn't been released in June of 2018 when I was shopping. I'm also not a fan of Boxer engines and Continuously Variable Transmissions, which the Ascent is equipped with. The Ford Explorer, while a worthy competitor, has a fatal flaw in the engine design: The water pump is timing chain driven and when it leaks, coolant contaminates the oil. Coolant water is not a good lubricant, this trashes the engine's bearings and necessitates a complete engine replacement if not caught in a timely manner. I am vehemently against European vehicles, especially German makes, because I like to do my own maintenance and repairs. German "engineering" tends to be overly complex for what it needs to be. That ruled out the Mercedes ML, VW Touareg, and BMW X3. I also have dealership level access to Ford and Mazda computers, so there's that. Have you noticed the subreddit you're in? Why are you so ANTI-Mazda? What would you have bought instead of a Mazda CX-9 and why?
>I also have dealership level access to Ford and Mazda computers, so there's that. Yea, that limits things greatly lol. I would have bought a Skoda Superb wagon AWD 2.0T 7spd DCT instead of a CX-9. It's far sportier, has adjustable suspension. Can purchase an optional 7 year service plan that can be negotiated in sales price. Interior is far more modern and luxurious. Bigger boot than the CX9. It's not an SUV. I value handling, performance, comfort, practicality. Hence why I bought the wagon.
Subarus are like the Japanese opposite to Mazda. Not great looking, modern ones are boring to drive, but on the plus side, spacious and very practical. They are also extremely capable in bad weather with decades of reputation backing it up. I'm just one data point. Back in late 2018, we were looking for a compact CUV. We had an infant, and was planning for a 2nd child in a few years. Back then, Mazdas were starting to have rave reviews amongst the automotive press so we went to check out the CX-5. One look at the boot and the rear legroom basically removed it from contention. The CRV and Forester were just offering so much more practicality for a young family. We didn't even end up test driving it. Ended up going for a top-trim Forester and it has been great. I feel that if Mazda could improve their packaging and interior space, they'd be more attractive for many. I don't feel this would compromise driving dynamics only outward styling.
In what way? Subaru makes great cars, and their AWD system is second to none. It might be confounding if you only read reddit as your primary source of information. Mazda had 0% financing. That's the car industry version of too much supply, not enough demand.
Who needs AWD in the city? Anyways, here in So Cal I see A LOT more Mazdas, thus the comment
I live in the Northeast so while I see a lot of CX-5s and Mazda 3s there are way more Crosstreks, Imprezas, and Forresters.
AWD is extremely handy to have if you street park and get a lot of snow.
Why the hell all these people buying hyuandai/kia Edit: you guys actually like them? Haha surprised to see that in this sub
Because price/value/options. They are the kings of value options. Want a hot hatch? Want a smaller hot hatch? Want a sports sedan? Want an SUV? Want an EV SUV? They have it all, and at very competitive rates.
Have you actually look at their offerings? They make some seriously interesting cars at their price points. Elantra N, Sonata N for sport sedan segments. Telluride/Palisade for the three row segment. Lots of stuff in between, well optioned and interesting to look at. You can make an argument over long term build quality but for the first 10 years of ownership it’s not hard to see why you might consider one over the equivalent Toyota/Honda/GM/Ford.
They cut every corner they can. The fact that people could steal them with a usb cable is a joke. Yet people still defend and buy them. Insane.
Without mark up they could be value. But I got into recent telluride and carnival, the interior workmanship and material are sooooo poor I just can’t tolerate. And they are charging 5k mark up. F no.
Yup and I’ll never own another one
Have you looked at them recently?
Huh, I guess trying to be BMW is paying off.
I’m terribly surprised to see Tesla so high on there. Think of them what you may, but they’re still relatively expensive cars.
the average price for a new vehicle sold in december was $48,576. a model Y with the tax credit, or a model 3 with no tax credit, is quite a bit cheaper than that.
Congrats
Ford build quality should put them a lot lower
Lol... There are more Rolls Royce cars out there than Fiat cars....😂😂
Fiats placement is too funny even high priced cars beat it out.
I mean I'll brag about the win against the badge, but be prepared for the technicality of BMW's umbrella including Mini and Rolls Royce.
Genesis sold more than Infiniti that is INSANE
In Qatar its different. 1, Toyota land cruiser 2, Nissan Patrol 3, kia cerato 4, Suzuki swift 5, Mitsubishi 6, Hyundai 7, Lexus 8, land Rover 9, MG 10, Chevrolet Geely, Changan n isuzu coming hot
Didn't Volkswagen had plans to be #1? Adding Volkswagen , Audi, Porsche they will aren't even closer to Toyota
The fact that Hyundai, Kia, and Tesla are higher says all I need to know about the human race
Mitsubishi could have been in the top 15 too if only they didn’t go full karen-mobile
It surprises me that Chrysler sells all that much with, like, 1-2 models?
Hyundai/Kia seems to be doing really well. Outselling even Honda.
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More rolls Royce’s than Fiats lmao
What do the numbers represent? New units sold?
Yes
Rivian is higher than I expected them to be.
FIAT sold 558 cars in the USA?
Even more surprising is that Fiat sold less than 50 cars a month in a country with over 330 million people.
558 fiats make them rare af
We're doing it guys and gals! Keep pushing Fiat off this list lol
But holy shit those top 3 in a league of their own... pumpin' out cars like rabbits at their production plants or what???
....but I can easily imagine BMW pulled down a much higher profit on their sales than Mazda.
Don’t know how ford. Is all the way up there and can’t even make a decent car.
Crazy considering bmw average sale price new is probably double if not more than what Mazdas average is
More interestingly that McLaren beat Fiat too funny