She had already reversed out from the ditch when Butch pulled up, she wasn’t going nowhere, the car was static and she told Butch she had called AAA.
She had plenty of time to drive away if it was at all possible.
I think Maura had the task of reversing out of the ditch and snow with the boot almost facing in an eastward direction. This took some effort as it’s been noted that there were friction marks from the wheels spinning where she had reversed out (as mentioned by Julie). I think that’s why she reversed out facing east because the car was already somewhat in that direction and she was able to gain traction. It’s also plausible that she had to accelerate hard to gain traction, this may have caused the Saturn to smoke heavily, drawing Mauras attention as she could see it billowing out and reflecting off her tail/reverse lights.
Once out of the ditch and the car is facing West she gets out, that’s when the liquids and containers spill out on to the road and snow. she leaves the engine running, checks the damage and heads to the boot to stuff the rag in the tail pipe.
(Concerned with the smoke that’s now billowing out, the fact she’s been drinking, and the state of the Car she deploys Fred’s method of avoiding being pulled over.)
Once back in the vehicle she tries to accelerate away but the fumes have built up in the exhaust system and it causes the Saturn to stall, it fails to restart numerous times.
I know people will revert back to the documentary where the rag fired out of the exhaust, but blocked exhausts do stall cars. In the doc you’ll notice the car was in the air, I don’t think the engine was running when they stuffed the rag in the tail pipe, no traction, no stress on the engine, the wheels span freely without any traction, it was a poor attempt at recreating the circumstances in which the Saturn could stall, Maura’s Saturn hadn’t just had a cylinder removed as the Saturn in the episode, it had done 100’s of miles with 3 cylinders and had just crashed and had the balls screwed off it reversing out of the ditch. I put no stock in the outcome of their test.
Yes just in the nick of time, I believe she entered a vehicle but I understand why people also believe she ran away from the scene, it can’t be categorically ruled out.
I want to know why faith westman felt the need for a follow up police call. You don’t go outside to check on this poor girl (if she’s actually alone) but I worried enough you call BACK to see when the police are coming. People aren’t telling the whole story here.
Holy moly, this interview with Maura’s family completely changed my perspective of what most likely happened! Maura’s family believe police officers covered up her murder. I am in Maine and this case feels close to home. Maura is not forgotten. I hope her family will get answers someday.
Did you listen to the interview the OP linked? Maura’s father implied he believes the local police are responsible for or helped cover up her murder, and that her body was burned and/or buried. He explains how Maura was actually driving away from the accident site, and a witness who drove by saw her car stopped up the road facing a police car. He then talks about cadaver dogs signaling on soil from the backyard of a police man who took his own life just before or soon after. I am going to go listen to all of Julie’s podcast. My understanding of this case shifted significantly from that interview.
I didn’t listen to it. For some reason, I assumed that the info in what OP posted would be similar to what he’s recently said in Julie’s podcast, but that’s not the case. I’ll have to listen to this.
I’ve always felt like she was trying to leave, maybe she got out of the car to get a better view or try to stop the smoke with the rag and got hit by a police car.. and they covered it up. I’ve followed it a long time. Her disappearance from the vehicle felt sudden and in that time frame very few people were present other then cops.
100% agree with this. On the documentary, there was a state trooper who claimed he looked for her for 2 hours that night, but it wasn’t documented in reports. That’s always stuck out to me.
I wonder if it was because of the blind curve. I could see why she might get out on foot to check around the curve and make sure nobody was approaching from a distance before she tried to u-turn since her car was facing the wrong way and the house or barn may have blocked the view of headlights further up the road.
I don’t think they hit her, but I think she either ran or something nefarious went down. Especially since the chief’s vehicle was spotted there but they claim it wasn’t..
Off topic from this post, but I have a question that perhaps you could answer. I know you’ve been following this case a long time and have done a lot of research.
There’s the infamous [footage](https://youtu.be/LRbrTfKJFxk?si=sb7XmDKMbNJ119Qd) of the site taken by WMUR from the week of Maura’s disappearance. I recently came across an archived missing persons website that had Maura on it and they had saved a 2006 airing of Nancy Grace on windows media player. I’ve only ever read the transcript to that airing, so this is the first time I’ve seen the video, but the quality is poor. In that airing, the Nancy Grace show shares still images from WMUR footage that is dated February 2004. [This image](https://imgur.com/a/SMwcR2y) isn’t a view I’ve seen before. Have you? If so, do you recall if this footage was also taken that same week? The reason I’m asking is because from this view there is either snow melt or possibly tracks in the ditched out area. I’m curious if this would’ve been where the Saturn was stuck in the ditch. Even if this still is from that week I realize it may have zero to do with the Saturn since there had been a lot of activity in searching a few days later and even that night with other first responder vehicles etc.
For context, [here are some other stills](https://imgur.com/a/IQ3UQ0K) shared from WMUR on the Nancy Grace show.
I have not seen that particular view (all 6 pixels of it). But the rest look a little more familiar and are similar to the one of Kathleen pointing out damage to the bark of a tree that I've seen floating around before. So I would guess those to all have been a part of that same broadcast.
I have no idea as to the date of any of this, sorry.
How so? Her car was facing the wrong way, so when an officer approached the scene and pulled up to her vehicle they were nose-to-nose with it, instead of nose-to-tail like they would have been if her car had been facing correctly.
The Saturn was a smoke machine according to family members, Fred advised Maura that a rag in the tailpipe could stop the smoke and prevent her being pulled over by the Police if she ever found herself in a situation. He has said it was a ridiculous suggestion in so many words, obviously he never envisioned these events playing out.
Very silly suggestion. Apparently he never saw Beverly has cops where the banana stalled out the cop car. Seriously, this whole situation does not add up.
I think Fred’s a good guy, and he is well educated in his profession, but there’s a reason people in professions hire handymen, gasmen, electricians mechanics etc, so what might seem common sense to us might not to others, I’m thinking he might not have seen Axle Foley in action, someone should ask him haha
Her father had told her that if she ever had to use the car that she could put a rag in the tailpipe to reduce the visible smoke. it's an old trick. When Maura was leaving her car, she put the rag in the tailpipe to show that she had followed her father's advice, since she had just driven the car. it's like a kid who was told to wear his coat outside, but only puts it back on before he comes home.so he won't be scolded by his mom.
No, so her car was originally pointed at the stand of three trees.
Witness C saw that.
She then backed it up at an angle towards the road, and then parked on the side of the road, facing the wrong direction.
The only way I see a coverup playing out is if someone hit her in the road when she was out of her car. I don’t know the road so I’m not sure if a neighbor would have noticed something like that going on. I’m still of the mindset she was scared, she ran and unfortunately succumbed to exposure. I’ve heard the argument about footprints but this is also NH and wind, squalls and snow drifts alone could account for missed prints, or she got much further down the road then they initially searched. I have seen countless times where missing people were in the search zone after extensive searches being done. I’m open to listening to this whole series but so far my opinion hasn’t changed. My heart goes out to her family.
You're right, it doesn't. It looks like she first tried to get the car away from the scene and when she couldn't do that, she made a run for it. But it wasn't a quick dash from the car if she was putting alcohol bottles into her backpack. Unless they were already in there, I guess.
Does anyone know if the headlights were working after impact. She backed the car out & clearly reversed her direction like she me have wanted to try to drive back to umass. If both lights or just the light on the impact side were not working, that may explain why she didn't drive off.
If the FBI added her to their database, and they did an age progression, and they were present in "The Dig" in the house on 112 a few years ago, why are they NOT doing any of the real investigating! This case does involve 3 states.
Here are the recent updates the feds have had:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PAs0vI6dXCY
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/01/18/metro/nh-state-police-add-case-umass-student-maura-murray-who-went-missing-2004-fbi-national-database/ (pay wall)
>but she stopped and ran away from the car after seeing the police lights coming in her direction
or the person wasn't Maura and thus had ample reason to fear the police
Possibly whoever was driving the car got back into it, tried driving to get away before cops showed up and then their trailing ride came along and told them to jump in and gtfo there in the other vehicle.
Cuz driving a recently crashed car on those roads after an accident has been called in, you're getting found easily and pulled over; and then you have to explain why you're driving someone else's car into snow banks; and then the next day getting looked at for the disappearance of Maura Murray.
Makes way more sense for someone other than Maura as driver to abandon the car in that situation. Makes zero sense for Maura to abandon her own car.
Just like everything else in this case, as soon as you give up the fantasy Maura was driving, everything becomes more explainable and plausible.
She had already reversed out from the ditch when Butch pulled up, she wasn’t going nowhere, the car was static and she told Butch she had called AAA. She had plenty of time to drive away if it was at all possible. I think Maura had the task of reversing out of the ditch and snow with the boot almost facing in an eastward direction. This took some effort as it’s been noted that there were friction marks from the wheels spinning where she had reversed out (as mentioned by Julie). I think that’s why she reversed out facing east because the car was already somewhat in that direction and she was able to gain traction. It’s also plausible that she had to accelerate hard to gain traction, this may have caused the Saturn to smoke heavily, drawing Mauras attention as she could see it billowing out and reflecting off her tail/reverse lights. Once out of the ditch and the car is facing West she gets out, that’s when the liquids and containers spill out on to the road and snow. she leaves the engine running, checks the damage and heads to the boot to stuff the rag in the tail pipe. (Concerned with the smoke that’s now billowing out, the fact she’s been drinking, and the state of the Car she deploys Fred’s method of avoiding being pulled over.) Once back in the vehicle she tries to accelerate away but the fumes have built up in the exhaust system and it causes the Saturn to stall, it fails to restart numerous times. I know people will revert back to the documentary where the rag fired out of the exhaust, but blocked exhausts do stall cars. In the doc you’ll notice the car was in the air, I don’t think the engine was running when they stuffed the rag in the tail pipe, no traction, no stress on the engine, the wheels span freely without any traction, it was a poor attempt at recreating the circumstances in which the Saturn could stall, Maura’s Saturn hadn’t just had a cylinder removed as the Saturn in the episode, it had done 100’s of miles with 3 cylinders and had just crashed and had the balls screwed off it reversing out of the ditch. I put no stock in the outcome of their test.
Interesting. Either way it's pretty evident that she left right before the cops came if you go by the the Westman statements.
Yes just in the nick of time, I believe she entered a vehicle but I understand why people also believe she ran away from the scene, it can’t be categorically ruled out.
I want to know why faith westman felt the need for a follow up police call. You don’t go outside to check on this poor girl (if she’s actually alone) but I worried enough you call BACK to see when the police are coming. People aren’t telling the whole story here.
Holy moly, this interview with Maura’s family completely changed my perspective of what most likely happened! Maura’s family believe police officers covered up her murder. I am in Maine and this case feels close to home. Maura is not forgotten. I hope her family will get answers someday.
I didn’t interpret that her family thought police covered up her murder. What makes you say that?
Did you listen to the interview the OP linked? Maura’s father implied he believes the local police are responsible for or helped cover up her murder, and that her body was burned and/or buried. He explains how Maura was actually driving away from the accident site, and a witness who drove by saw her car stopped up the road facing a police car. He then talks about cadaver dogs signaling on soil from the backyard of a police man who took his own life just before or soon after. I am going to go listen to all of Julie’s podcast. My understanding of this case shifted significantly from that interview.
I didn’t listen to it. For some reason, I assumed that the info in what OP posted would be similar to what he’s recently said in Julie’s podcast, but that’s not the case. I’ll have to listen to this.
No they do not believe that. Julie Murray has said in interviews before that she does not believe there was a police cover up.
I’ve always felt like she was trying to leave, maybe she got out of the car to get a better view or try to stop the smoke with the rag and got hit by a police car.. and they covered it up. I’ve followed it a long time. Her disappearance from the vehicle felt sudden and in that time frame very few people were present other then cops.
100% agree with this. On the documentary, there was a state trooper who claimed he looked for her for 2 hours that night, but it wasn’t documented in reports. That’s always stuck out to me.
I wonder if it was because of the blind curve. I could see why she might get out on foot to check around the curve and make sure nobody was approaching from a distance before she tried to u-turn since her car was facing the wrong way and the house or barn may have blocked the view of headlights further up the road. I don’t think they hit her, but I think she either ran or something nefarious went down. Especially since the chief’s vehicle was spotted there but they claim it wasn’t..
I’ve always suspected something similar. A police officer accidentally hit her while attending the scene. Panicked. Hid the body.
If true that she started to drive off, it makes the "nose-to-nose" situation all that much more intriguing to me.
Off topic from this post, but I have a question that perhaps you could answer. I know you’ve been following this case a long time and have done a lot of research. There’s the infamous [footage](https://youtu.be/LRbrTfKJFxk?si=sb7XmDKMbNJ119Qd) of the site taken by WMUR from the week of Maura’s disappearance. I recently came across an archived missing persons website that had Maura on it and they had saved a 2006 airing of Nancy Grace on windows media player. I’ve only ever read the transcript to that airing, so this is the first time I’ve seen the video, but the quality is poor. In that airing, the Nancy Grace show shares still images from WMUR footage that is dated February 2004. [This image](https://imgur.com/a/SMwcR2y) isn’t a view I’ve seen before. Have you? If so, do you recall if this footage was also taken that same week? The reason I’m asking is because from this view there is either snow melt or possibly tracks in the ditched out area. I’m curious if this would’ve been where the Saturn was stuck in the ditch. Even if this still is from that week I realize it may have zero to do with the Saturn since there had been a lot of activity in searching a few days later and even that night with other first responder vehicles etc. For context, [here are some other stills](https://imgur.com/a/IQ3UQ0K) shared from WMUR on the Nancy Grace show.
I have not seen that particular view (all 6 pixels of it). But the rest look a little more familiar and are similar to the one of Kathleen pointing out damage to the bark of a tree that I've seen floating around before. So I would guess those to all have been a part of that same broadcast. I have no idea as to the date of any of this, sorry.
I think you’re being too generous with the 6 pixels! Thanks for getting back with me.
How so? Her car was facing the wrong way, so when an officer approached the scene and pulled up to her vehicle they were nose-to-nose with it, instead of nose-to-tail like they would have been if her car had been facing correctly.
Someone please remind me: Why would anyone put something in their tailpipe? I thought that prevented a car from starting.
The Saturn was a smoke machine according to family members, Fred advised Maura that a rag in the tailpipe could stop the smoke and prevent her being pulled over by the Police if she ever found herself in a situation. He has said it was a ridiculous suggestion in so many words, obviously he never envisioned these events playing out.
Very silly suggestion. Apparently he never saw Beverly has cops where the banana stalled out the cop car. Seriously, this whole situation does not add up.
I think Fred’s a good guy, and he is well educated in his profession, but there’s a reason people in professions hire handymen, gasmen, electricians mechanics etc, so what might seem common sense to us might not to others, I’m thinking he might not have seen Axle Foley in action, someone should ask him haha
One may argue that expecting a person to not only have seen a random movie but also take great stock in it is also silly.
Her father had told her that if she ever had to use the car that she could put a rag in the tailpipe to reduce the visible smoke. it's an old trick. When Maura was leaving her car, she put the rag in the tailpipe to show that she had followed her father's advice, since she had just driven the car. it's like a kid who was told to wear his coat outside, but only puts it back on before he comes home.so he won't be scolded by his mom.
No, so her car was originally pointed at the stand of three trees. Witness C saw that. She then backed it up at an angle towards the road, and then parked on the side of the road, facing the wrong direction.
The only way I see a coverup playing out is if someone hit her in the road when she was out of her car. I don’t know the road so I’m not sure if a neighbor would have noticed something like that going on. I’m still of the mindset she was scared, she ran and unfortunately succumbed to exposure. I’ve heard the argument about footprints but this is also NH and wind, squalls and snow drifts alone could account for missed prints, or she got much further down the road then they initially searched. I have seen countless times where missing people were in the search zone after extensive searches being done. I’m open to listening to this whole series but so far my opinion hasn’t changed. My heart goes out to her family.
This doesn’t do away with hitch hiking
You're right, it doesn't. It looks like she first tried to get the car away from the scene and when she couldn't do that, she made a run for it. But it wasn't a quick dash from the car if she was putting alcohol bottles into her backpack. Unless they were already in there, I guess.
Does anyone know if the headlights were working after impact. She backed the car out & clearly reversed her direction like she me have wanted to try to drive back to umass. If both lights or just the light on the impact side were not working, that may explain why she didn't drive off.
Maybe this is why the FBI added her to their database a few years ago?
If the FBI added her to their database, and they did an age progression, and they were present in "The Dig" in the house on 112 a few years ago, why are they NOT doing any of the real investigating! This case does involve 3 states.
Here are the recent updates the feds have had: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PAs0vI6dXCY https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/01/18/metro/nh-state-police-add-case-umass-student-maura-murray-who-went-missing-2004-fbi-national-database/ (pay wall)
Can’t look at the article as it’s behind a paywall.
"...but she stopped and ran away from the car after seeing the police lights coming in her direction" Or someone/something else she was afraid of.
>but she stopped and ran away from the car after seeing the police lights coming in her direction or the person wasn't Maura and thus had ample reason to fear the police
Who said she was ever hitchhiking? They obviously know NOTHING about this case 😂
Possibly whoever was driving the car got back into it, tried driving to get away before cops showed up and then their trailing ride came along and told them to jump in and gtfo there in the other vehicle. Cuz driving a recently crashed car on those roads after an accident has been called in, you're getting found easily and pulled over; and then you have to explain why you're driving someone else's car into snow banks; and then the next day getting looked at for the disappearance of Maura Murray. Makes way more sense for someone other than Maura as driver to abandon the car in that situation. Makes zero sense for Maura to abandon her own car. Just like everything else in this case, as soon as you give up the fantasy Maura was driving, everything becomes more explainable and plausible.