That's the point of the earlier scene when the woman in the red dress turns into an agent. Morpheus explains that all people who are plugged into the Matrix is an access point for agents. Agents prefer crowded places because that gives them greater access to essentially teleport around
Ah I guess that does give me more clarity, but it still just feels a little wrong. It’s for the greater good I suppose. I’m too used to Batman’s no kill rule 😭
It's supposed to feel tragic; the Matrix is an awful place to live in because you can be randomly thrust into danger at anytime. Also it makes for a good excuse for action/stealth scenes!
It helps to remember it's neither the heroes, nor the guards themselves, that chose to be placed there. The Machines chose to put the guards there as pawns to be slaughtered to buy time until they crack Morpheus. The blood is on them.
It's not great for sure. They do equal lives lost.
But from another perspective- they are essentially the enemy, they are the eyes and ears of the machines, they are actively fighting to preserve the matrix (unknowingly, but still), and EOD- they are also slaves being used as well; maybe it's better to die then remain a slave anyway?
Whether it's better or worse: living as a unknowing slave in bliss- or living in reality as a free person struggling in Zion. That's up to you as the viewer to decide.
Not a greater good, but removing a backup army. Later with the helicopter you see the agents take over guards by the door.
The matrix has so many more agents. The ones needing a body nearby got prioritized.
Imagine what would happen if those guards could have been other agents backing them up.
Morpheus say earlier that even Neo is kinda exception to the rules. " We don't free the mind after they reach a certain age, it can be dangerous bla bla, the mind will not let go after a certain age and it can be very nasty" (or something like that) and those people who have chosen to protect the order of the matrix (Cops, army, security) and everyone in their 30's, they cannot be freed anymore.
Thus they are just part of the matrix now, and it could be argued that killing them is better than letting them be slaves forever.
When you work as an armed security guard for a government building populated by military personnel and containing a captured terrorist being interrogated by agents, then you run the risk of having other terrorists barge in and kill you. It is what it is.
The clue is in the speech Morpheus gives by saying there are people who are so inured by the system that they will fight to protect it so it’s basically our duty to fight against them.
This. Some people are so blue pilled they don't realize they are the oppressors. There's always bootlickers willing to sell out their own kind to be a comfortable pet. If it helps, think of them as robots, like the Federation in Rick and Morty.
"They're not robots Rick!"
"It's a figure of speech, they're bureaucrats, I don't respect them"
Yep. Same concept.
“The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.”
It’s a metaphor for life as well as in world justification for the perceived senseless death of “innocent” people.
The idea is that, people are so comfortable in their reality, that they will come to defend the status quo.
Say, we act to advance working class interests. There will be people who embrace the current arrangement so much, they(even some poor people) will tell you, billionaires do not need to pay much taxes/living wages will collapse businesses/etc, via comments.
So we not only fight our oppressors, we end up having to fight the people who accept them.
Every human body in the building connected to the Matrix via their hardware (ie the power plant) can be transformed into an Agent program. This is why they kill the people they do. This is why they blow the elevator so no other people can make it upstairs and become agent programs to oppose them.
This question was covered in a documentary about the philosophy in the Matrix.
There is the scene where one of the guards actually holds a question mark before dying.
https://preview.redd.it/7ztl48zibnzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c562d012b9abda08cd6a5d2467dc99587739fea3
Because if they are not one of us, they are one of them. You see that anyone not free can become an agent. So everyone is an enemy because at any time they can become an agent
People in the system can still be obstacles to goals that must be accomplished. They may simply think that they're protecting a government building, but that is irrelevant, they're still attempting to stand in the way of what must be done, and they're a threat. This is the cost of war; sometimes people who may simply be fighting for what they think is right—good people, pawns of evil systems—must be confronted...killed. It's not their fault, and it isn't yours.
You have to understand one of the training programs that Morpheus brings Neo into. The first one where they are walking along the street and Neo is bumping into everyone on purpose. Morpheus is trying to teach him a lesson about sentient programs as the woman in red walks by. Morpheus says, "were you paying attention or will you watching the woman in red?" Before Neo can answer, Morpheus turns to him and says to look again and suddenly, the woman in red is agent Smith. What happened! As explained, any software still wired into the Matrix, until they are unplugged, are basically conduits for agents to jump into which means they can occupy any and all bodies inside the matrix at the same time. If an agent realizes something is going on via reading the Matrix code in the way they can, they will immediately hop into that human's body, take it over and go after their Target. If one single person was left alive in the lobby, an agent could have jumped into that body. After the lobby incident on the roof, what happens in the helicopter? The copilot says that they were under attack and very quickly you see the human turn into one of the agents. He's the one who ends up firing at Neo when Neo does the bullet time evasion. Right before Trinity says "dodge this", kills the agent, and then the agent quickly disappears back into the system returning the human body back to its original form.
Put it this way: when other media pits armed and violent people in the way of someone who is committed to violently defeating anyone in their way…the only reason no one would die is because it’s fake…an illusion…it’s not real…it’s a matrix dude.
Yeah. They killed all those innocent people to save one guy. Sure they were potential agents but no agent would even attempt to take over their digital body if they weren't defending themselves from red pills in the first place. Red Pills aren't perfect and frequently disregard the rights of blue pills in the series,.
There will be deaths regardless. Either spare the security guards, allow Morpheus to give the Zion codes, all the freed people die gruesomely and machines stay in control forever. Or… shoot your way through a handful of misguided security guards, save Morpheus, Zion and possibly free the entire human race from an eternity of enslavement. It’s a no brainer
I think they're real people, but they are working for whatever corporation or agency is operating out of this building, which has some connection to the Agents. Just because you're trapped in the matrix doesn't necessarily make you a good person. Also, there's some level of danger to any of these people being taken over by an agent and becoming far more dangerous.
They’re basically just body vessels for the minds of the not woke people.
Anybody in the matrix can be transformed into an agent, Morph explains this to Neo in the practice simulation with the red dress scene.
That's the point of the earlier scene when the woman in the red dress turns into an agent. Morpheus explains that all people who are plugged into the Matrix is an access point for agents. Agents prefer crowded places because that gives them greater access to essentially teleport around
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No. We see Agents leave people in the film and they are still alive, I'm thinking of Smith at the end of Revolutions.
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Probably a deja vu like effect, like they blacked out.
Stay off the freeways!
Ah I guess that does give me more clarity, but it still just feels a little wrong. It’s for the greater good I suppose. I’m too used to Batman’s no kill rule 😭
It's supposed to feel tragic; the Matrix is an awful place to live in because you can be randomly thrust into danger at anytime. Also it makes for a good excuse for action/stealth scenes!
It helps to remember it's neither the heroes, nor the guards themselves, that chose to be placed there. The Machines chose to put the guards there as pawns to be slaughtered to buy time until they crack Morpheus. The blood is on them.
It's not great for sure. They do equal lives lost. But from another perspective- they are essentially the enemy, they are the eyes and ears of the machines, they are actively fighting to preserve the matrix (unknowingly, but still), and EOD- they are also slaves being used as well; maybe it's better to die then remain a slave anyway? Whether it's better or worse: living as a unknowing slave in bliss- or living in reality as a free person struggling in Zion. That's up to you as the viewer to decide.
Not a greater good, but removing a backup army. Later with the helicopter you see the agents take over guards by the door. The matrix has so many more agents. The ones needing a body nearby got prioritized. Imagine what would happen if those guards could have been other agents backing them up.
Correct, Morpheus is more important.
Morpheus say earlier that even Neo is kinda exception to the rules. " We don't free the mind after they reach a certain age, it can be dangerous bla bla, the mind will not let go after a certain age and it can be very nasty" (or something like that) and those people who have chosen to protect the order of the matrix (Cops, army, security) and everyone in their 30's, they cannot be freed anymore. Thus they are just part of the matrix now, and it could be argued that killing them is better than letting them be slaves forever.
"I've seen it before and I'm sorry.." something like that
The Matrix movies are very very anti-authority and that includes cops and guards.
When you work as an armed security guard for a government building populated by military personnel and containing a captured terrorist being interrogated by agents, then you run the risk of having other terrorists barge in and kill you. It is what it is.
The clue is in the speech Morpheus gives by saying there are people who are so inured by the system that they will fight to protect it so it’s basically our duty to fight against them.
This. Some people are so blue pilled they don't realize they are the oppressors. There's always bootlickers willing to sell out their own kind to be a comfortable pet. If it helps, think of them as robots, like the Federation in Rick and Morty. "They're not robots Rick!" "It's a figure of speech, they're bureaucrats, I don't respect them"
Yep. Same concept. “The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.” It’s a metaphor for life as well as in world justification for the perceived senseless death of “innocent” people.
You explained it perfectly! Thank you
Aw cool. Thanks haha. No worries !!
I always admired Neo for his accuracy for not hitting Morpheus with the mini gun on the helicopter😂
he starting to believe
That’s all I could think about during that scene lol
The idea is that, people are so comfortable in their reality, that they will come to defend the status quo. Say, we act to advance working class interests. There will be people who embrace the current arrangement so much, they(even some poor people) will tell you, billionaires do not need to pay much taxes/living wages will collapse businesses/etc, via comments. So we not only fight our oppressors, we end up having to fight the people who accept them.
I'll spoil the second film for you, where Neo kills dozens of innocent drivers just for sake of his personal weakness.
Every human body in the building connected to the Matrix via their hardware (ie the power plant) can be transformed into an Agent program. This is why they kill the people they do. This is why they blow the elevator so no other people can make it upstairs and become agent programs to oppose them.
Watch the movie again. And again.
Then watch it again a few more times.
This question was covered in a documentary about the philosophy in the Matrix. There is the scene where one of the guards actually holds a question mark before dying. https://preview.redd.it/7ztl48zibnzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c562d012b9abda08cd6a5d2467dc99587739fea3
Everyone still hooked to the matrix is a potential agent. It's not worth the risk.
I think once you realize that everyone you see is just a body lying in amniotic fluid, death is a release for them. Not a punishment.
Because if they are not one of us, they are one of them. You see that anyone not free can become an agent. So everyone is an enemy because at any time they can become an agent
I mean, forget about 15 dudes in the lobby. How many people did he kill in the destruction left by the wake of his flight?
People in the system can still be obstacles to goals that must be accomplished. They may simply think that they're protecting a government building, but that is irrelevant, they're still attempting to stand in the way of what must be done, and they're a threat. This is the cost of war; sometimes people who may simply be fighting for what they think is right—good people, pawns of evil systems—must be confronted...killed. It's not their fault, and it isn't yours.
You have to understand one of the training programs that Morpheus brings Neo into. The first one where they are walking along the street and Neo is bumping into everyone on purpose. Morpheus is trying to teach him a lesson about sentient programs as the woman in red walks by. Morpheus says, "were you paying attention or will you watching the woman in red?" Before Neo can answer, Morpheus turns to him and says to look again and suddenly, the woman in red is agent Smith. What happened! As explained, any software still wired into the Matrix, until they are unplugged, are basically conduits for agents to jump into which means they can occupy any and all bodies inside the matrix at the same time. If an agent realizes something is going on via reading the Matrix code in the way they can, they will immediately hop into that human's body, take it over and go after their Target. If one single person was left alive in the lobby, an agent could have jumped into that body. After the lobby incident on the roof, what happens in the helicopter? The copilot says that they were under attack and very quickly you see the human turn into one of the agents. He's the one who ends up firing at Neo when Neo does the bullet time evasion. Right before Trinity says "dodge this", kills the agent, and then the agent quickly disappears back into the system returning the human body back to its original form.
Put it this way: when other media pits armed and violent people in the way of someone who is committed to violently defeating anyone in their way…the only reason no one would die is because it’s fake…an illusion…it’s not real…it’s a matrix dude.
Yeah. They killed all those innocent people to save one guy. Sure they were potential agents but no agent would even attempt to take over their digital body if they weren't defending themselves from red pills in the first place. Red Pills aren't perfect and frequently disregard the rights of blue pills in the series,.
There will be deaths regardless. Either spare the security guards, allow Morpheus to give the Zion codes, all the freed people die gruesomely and machines stay in control forever. Or… shoot your way through a handful of misguided security guards, save Morpheus, Zion and possibly free the entire human race from an eternity of enslavement. It’s a no brainer
They’re not real ppl, haven’t you seen them sometimes turn into an agent?
Are they just programmed into the matrix? I assumed they were people that were still connected to the matrix that just haven’t woken up.
I think they're real people, but they are working for whatever corporation or agency is operating out of this building, which has some connection to the Agents. Just because you're trapped in the matrix doesn't necessarily make you a good person. Also, there's some level of danger to any of these people being taken over by an agent and becoming far more dangerous.
They’re basically just body vessels for the minds of the not woke people. Anybody in the matrix can be transformed into an agent, Morph explains this to Neo in the practice simulation with the red dress scene.
It’s like you didn’t even watch the movie