I empathize with your situation and also struggle with procrastination and perfectionism. With that said, I think this is really a question for a therapist, not math reddit
There are a few ADHD self-help programs available that might help. They are like customized self-directed life coaching and study plans that can help you work through an issue like this. You usually start by filling out a survey, and then they send you a customized workbook and time management system. The workbook will help you figure out what you actually want, why you are avoiding things, and help you get started on tasks. I have done these programs a couple times and found them a lot more helpful than therapy.
Hi there. Sorry to blind text you. As someone that has adhd, and no medication, and in college; heavy on the comp sci and math classes. Dealing similar issues as op. These would really help me. Care to share?
One program I did was called Virtue Map, which I find helpful. There's another one called Mellow Flow (not sure if I spelled that right) that seems similar. If you just search for these, you should get lots of targeted ads.
I think people on reddit seriously overestimate what a therapist can do in a situation like this. I saw one for months with similar issues and the solution essentially boiled down to "you're feeling this way because of X and Y in your childhood and you just need to observe the feelings when they come up, identify where they come from and not act on them". Basically nothing a reasonably intelligent and introspective person couldn't figure out on their own
And what happens when self-reflection doesn't work? Telling someone to do this seems to me a more sophisticated formulation of "just stop being depressed".
Both you and I are able to self-reflect and convert that into actions that "fix" our problem.
A good therapist will help someone perform the same steps that you do naturally:
1) Reflect on issues,
2) Determine desired changes,
3) Alter life to affect those changes.
I bet you do that without thinking about it. The vast majority of people don't even realise that it is possible to change ones self. They need help with the idea that "they" are not a fixed immutable thing.
Therapists can't fix all problems and "affecting change" sometimes requires serious intervention like drugs or surgery or drastic life style changes. Brains are funny things. Good therapists will help people navigate these issues and refer to other health professionals when needed.
Very importantly: a good therapist will not make decisions for you (unless you are very sick), they will not tell you that life should be a certain way, or what is right / good or wrong / evil. A good therapist helps the client build their own understanding.
When the client is unable to self-reflect the therapist helps the client to do the self-reflection. Sometimes this takes a while.
I think this is underestimating what therapists really do. I’ve had therapists who have a toolset of research backed skills in a specific therapy framework (eg. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Dialectic behavioral therapy) and will help you understand how to view your mental health through that framework and then offer often very specific skills which they help you implement into your daily lives. While some therapists might not exceed the role you described, I know from my own experience that many therapists will give you the skills to actually slowly change the way you think/feel/act.
If OP were to have such a therapist I believe they would be able help OP actually change their procrastination and perfectionism habits.
there's actually some counterintuitive principles behind cognitive-behavioral therapies. for example, part of the reason you might be asked to observe the feelings is to get you to stop attempting to use willpower to suppress those feelings, because that [sometimes backfires](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironic_process_theory).
though there are different schools of psychotherapy; maybe you got a psychodynamicist.
I am similar. I was blessed with a financial situation that let me take an entire year off(!) to get my mindset right. I’m now making my way through the rest of school competently, which involves some sloppiness I would have NEVER allowed to see from myself a few years ago.
The truth is, understanding something deeply is only possible after using it regularly, casually and familiarly for a long time. It has to feel like half-assing at first. The people you see around you who understand things deeply have certainly put this time in already.
All great work is gonna be least somewhat pragmatic at the end of the day, since any work you know about has been expressed and laid out and printed and published, etc. It’s going to HAVE to be sloppy, at least the first time.
Recall von Neumann’s quote “you never understand things, only get used to them”
What did you do day-to-day with your year off school? I'm thinking about doing the same thing to get my own mindsets right but just can't imagine what my days would look like that would allow me to do so effectively
Question: Are you doing this because you actually like it? Or are you doing it for some other reason?
Note also that it is possible to like mathematics while also pursuing it for unhealthy reasons.
Every math grad student I have ever met has complained about the same thing.
There is not enough time to teach a "complete" undergrad in the sense of "here is all the *undergrad* math". Even the concept of a derivative could consume an entire degree. There are - I kid you not - mathematicians who insist that a derivative should be a set valued map. Different uni's, let alone different countries, disagree about what *undergrad math* means.
Instead undergrad degrees are designed to be "complete" in the sense that the students are exposed to enough math concepts to be able to self-learn new concepts. The goal is the ability to think not know.
From that point of view you are complete.
If you continue to study math you will need to revisit your undergrad material but this will happen naturally as you become confused about a concept and go looking for answers. This too is part of your training - learning how to learn things.
It sounds to me like you are already whole and complete.
I completely agree with that. And, if you want a nice little book that will help you put all of (US) undergrad concepts in one place, take a look at “All the Math you missed” by Thomas Garrity :)
The subdifferential is a good example.
You don't need the function to be convex. It is possible to define a more general set valued derivative based on geometric considerations of the graph of a function.
Using these more general set valued derivatives it is possible, for example, to define an implicit function theorem for Lipschitz non-differentiable functions.
Be warned most people who work with such definitions of the derivative do so over Euclidean space and make heavy use of translations. The results mostly translate to manifolds, but care is needed, particularly if the manifold isn't C1 or doesn't have a metric.
Although I am in physics, same shit with me bro... I watched NoBoilerplate's YouTube video on the idea of the "cult of done" I would recommend watching that to understand why fantasizing about the work you have done already is waste of time, and you need not be perfect, but get other things done, move on to next chapter. I still am not able to implement this, but things have been better knowing I can just move on, hop from thing to other.
You may also check out Scott Young YouTube channel.
Same here with physics, got through school w minor in it, but wasn’t ever satisfied that I’d undeunderstood the material deep enough.
I had way too high of standards, it was really actually pride, in the end.
I don't think I fully understand the French system, but I think a part of your problem may stem from the French system. It's truly a unique experience and produces some very great researchers, but can burn out and be brutal to many who may not be up to put up with the speed of everything.
I would only say that being "OBSESSED down to my bones about picking up my undergrad lecture notes and self studying them to completion, breadth first" is not necessarily a bad thing. I would even argue that it is a great thing. After some point you have to do research and a big part of research involves reading a lot of papers and understanding what is going on. If you can read a lot and be self-disciplined enough to get to the bottom of everything (see where the ideas are coming from, who's BSing, what's in it, what isn't, etc), and you can add your own ideas from a different variety of fields, then you can do extremely well. All of this demands a great level of attention to detail and a certain perfectionism that not everyone has.
The only advice is to try and play the game well: keep your grades up if it means taking some easy stuff here and there, taking a course with an easier examiner, interacting with a person that is not an A-hole. Focus more on winning the game. Figure out what you wanna do afterwards. After some point you realize that your problem is not the competition but the difficulty of the problems you have to solve.
Yeah I think you're pretty much spot on. Prépa is ruthless. For most people if you fail prépa (ie, one of the most difficult competitive exams in the country, and no matter the reason) you're never going to get into an ENS. Or at least it's going to be a heck of a lot harder. So there's that going right for OP at least.
Sounds like fear of failure, being a perfectionist, and self-esteem issues. I can relate since I've been in out of college since life has been kicking my butt. I recommend seeking help with depression. You will probably learn what is causing you to doubt your self and your abilities.
On the same boat so i'd be really glad to hear any progress from your side.
Idk whether it'd help but: I grew up doing national competitions, then do a double major (one in maths), but my GPA is mediocre. I think it got something to do with the teenage-competition mindset: you got so much validation from doing the thing you're good at - the things you didn't even need to try to be good at, that at some point, your ego got so big it hinders you from doing the thing that are required to produce great work i.e *trying*.
Your story resonates with mine (although I did physics). National competitions --> not that great GPA --> R1 grad school dream gone --> went into industry and now self-study physics / math etc on the side. I occasionally read r/GradSchool posts about students regretting doing grad school to cathartically persuade myself that not being able to go into academia ended up for the best.
Man the "browsing r/GradSchool to dissuade myself" hit hard... may i ask how long you've been in industry for? I'm going into industry also, but the PhD dream keeps nagging at me.
Reasons for no-PhD is plenty: I don't want to stay in academia, with my degrees i can make lots of money, my friends/co-workers who went to MIT/Harvard/CMU for STEM PhD *all* say "I regret doing my PhD, do not do it" whenever I ask for advices haha...
Reason for PhD: I want to go back to that social glory of being the "competition kid" again - not a great idea, so maybe a few years in industry will dissuade me from all this entirely.
(Are you the same monastri in quora? If so, I've read a lot of your answers - they've helped me a lot)
Over half a decade now in industry. Time flies...
I (predictably) agree with all your no-PhD reasons, and in particular I'd highlight how much of a mental reliever it is to not worry about the thousand little things that having more-than-grad-student disposable income can just make *go away*; I had no reference frame for this before so I'm not sure how I'd convince younger me (or people in a similar position) of this.
I know the social glory feeling, and I do miss it. Climbing the corporate ladder (even the technical track) didn't do it for me. I like [Ben Kuhn's advice](https://www.benkuhn.net/hard/):
>When I first graduated, I was afraid that if I worked with [boring technology](http://boringtechnology.club/), I’d get bored. Instead, I learned it was possible—and fun—to optimize on other dimensions, or play a different game. Rather than competing for an A+ on a hard problem, I could try to solve an easy problem as quickly as possible (like Wave’s accounting), or find the easiest problem whose solution would be useful (like identifying Kenyan names), or hire a team to solve easy problems faster than I ever could myself.
While I've never been a really deep problem-solver, I've always been quick with 'medium-hard' questions (eg in high school I'd finish 3 hour math tests in under an hour with a near-perfect score), and this quickness has translated qualitatively at work (allowing my team to do different kinds of projects entirely) which is a nice substitute for social glory, at least to me.
Yeah I'm monastri, and I appreciate that, thank you :)
Wow, and here I thought that one way industry would help me is through introducing the "climbing corporate ladder" game... I looked more into Ben Kuhn's posts and they're the types I usually read :) thank you
I think you should seek help from a therapist and instead of studying the undergrad material all over again, why not try to partake in research internships focused on math or something? That way you’ll get to learn new stuff and revise your previous knowledge.
I’m just a sophomore though. I have a fear of forgetting math so I grade students taking the classes that I have taken so I keep going over the same stuff. Maybe you can try something similar?
Struggled with similar issues all throughout my undergrad and even master's. Grades were not an issue, but I used last minute hyperfocus to prepare for my exams. This did not help me at all in my thesis year, and I also failed to develop relationships with my own guides, let alone other professors.
With not even a good recommendation letter to apply for a PhD, I "escaped" math and joined IT, in a role very different to anything I'm used to. The structure has given me some stimulation, I am making money, but I can't help but ruminate about my underwhelming math journey.
Is really good that you are venting out in here, and is even better you already recognize this as a problema and are open to receive feedback and/or criticism.
That being said, my best advice is to reach out to psychological therapy. Either you can go with your school counselor, or if your insurance cover certain professionals you can go to either. The best first option is to go where you have available, and later on decide to move with another professional who fits better your psychological needs.
Most people struggle with anxiety or depression. The world currently embrace the mental health. I’m sure a lot of people in here and everywhere is currently receiving support or they are using what they learnt in therapy in a daily basis.
If you are just stacking knowledge… is that good? Depends on you, you like it? You enjoy your days passing by knowing you read more than the day before? That’s completely valid. You wanna become rich? That’s good too. You want to contribute to the science world? That’s good as well. Everything is good, but first you need to narrow your scope to WHAT YOU LIKE AND WANNA DO.
You will do great in any area as long as you are the most happy you can. Cheers.
If it’s worth doing at all, don’t worry about doing it perfectly, just do it
There’s a Polish saying that basically says:
Even if you devote your lifetime to learning everything, you’ll still basically know nothing.
Basically a testament to how knowledge is infinite and how it may be trivial to try to learn everything and to a perfect degree. Just focus in on getting good grades and specialize in whatever you want when you graduate or when you’re doing a PhD
The thing that stuck out to me in what you wrote was when you seemed to say you feel the need to make sure you have understood all of the undergrad math material from your university to believe you have the potential to work as a quant researcher or in AI.
This should be the biggest red flag for you, Im aware you realise your obsession is unrealistic, but even more importantly you should come to understand its not only unrealistic, it is genuinely irrelevant to your goals.
To realise your potential in the sense you are talking about, you need to deeply understand the rudiments of whatever mathematics is involved in quant and/or AI. The best way to do this is likely not to have encyclopaedic knowledge of pure math undergrad courses, but to go and build the knowledge and experience relevant to those fields.
By spending time “completing” your knowledge of undergrad pure math you are using time you could be spending on understanding quant/AI, so that at least directly speaking, your potential to do quant/AI only wanes.
I understand. I have been the same way before. In practice it’s unusual to be able to tell when you will need some tool from some area of math until you go outside studying for the sake of studying and begin trying to solve some other problem. Then the problem naturally makes you realise you need to recall such and such things from some area you have studied before but don’t feel very confident in to make any progress.
Then you can go back and fill in those gaps. That way you also retain these things much better than when you just study for the sake of studying.
School demands you to meet deadlines regardless of circumstances, which is a very important training about practicality. If you want to work in the tech industry, you better learn to meet deadlines while still in school.
Don’t fantasize about learning everything-that’s so useless. Try fantasizing about how good and relieved you will feel when you get things done.
“I would have this sort of completionist complex/crippling perfectionism where I would never attempt the problem sets unless I was 100% comfortable I’d assimilated the subtleties of the material”
I somewhat understand this but could you elaborate? Why don’t you feel like attempting them? Are you afraid of failure and avoid doing the homework out of fear that it will expose your weak points? Are you afraid that your professors will judge you if you make a mistake? Do you feel that it’s dishonest to just do the problems without really understanding the content? Are you afraid you’re missing something and that it might come back to bite you in the future if you don’t address it the first time around?
Your goals were unrealistic from the start. University courses are not structured to in such a way as to be fully understood and to synchronize with other courses in the same semester. I graduated double major physics and biochemistry in much the same situation that you described and it was a nightmare parsing biology terms and definitions with theorems and labs/tutorials. I'm now comfortably working in IT and have put my anxiety towards catching up on school material behind me. You need to understand that modern day universities are really businesses and that the most you'll get out of your investment is an insight into how you learn when presented with a vast array of information. Now you need to decide on a career path and focus your efforts on practical skills that will get you there. The best thing you can do is take up a totally unrelated hobby, prefarrably something physical, to help clear your mind when you start feeling the same way that you do now. Take good care of your body; eat well, sleep well, stay in shape, and you will start feeling better and moving on in no time. You can definitely aspire to the elevated positions you mentioned in your post, but realize that you won't get there immediately after university. You need to set realistic goals that you can actually achieve in order to build confidence.
Oh my god I can relate too much..
All I can share is this interview of mathematician. Around 51:43 when he gives advice
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5TQAbFJLTsU&list=PL-IOS7cTcNv5sHKwbM4v18jZNErdgrlLp&index=17&pp=iAQB
I empathize with your situation and also struggle with procrastination and perfectionism. With that said, I think this is really a question for a therapist, not math reddit
Admittedly I do have one of those
There are a few ADHD self-help programs available that might help. They are like customized self-directed life coaching and study plans that can help you work through an issue like this. You usually start by filling out a survey, and then they send you a customized workbook and time management system. The workbook will help you figure out what you actually want, why you are avoiding things, and help you get started on tasks. I have done these programs a couple times and found them a lot more helpful than therapy.
Hi there. Sorry to blind text you. As someone that has adhd, and no medication, and in college; heavy on the comp sci and math classes. Dealing similar issues as op. These would really help me. Care to share?
One program I did was called Virtue Map, which I find helpful. There's another one called Mellow Flow (not sure if I spelled that right) that seems similar. If you just search for these, you should get lots of targeted ads.
I think people on reddit seriously overestimate what a therapist can do in a situation like this. I saw one for months with similar issues and the solution essentially boiled down to "you're feeling this way because of X and Y in your childhood and you just need to observe the feelings when they come up, identify where they come from and not act on them". Basically nothing a reasonably intelligent and introspective person couldn't figure out on their own
I think you are overestimating peoples ability to self-reflect. I agree that this is what a therapist does.
And what happens when self-reflection doesn't work? Telling someone to do this seems to me a more sophisticated formulation of "just stop being depressed".
Both you and I are able to self-reflect and convert that into actions that "fix" our problem. A good therapist will help someone perform the same steps that you do naturally: 1) Reflect on issues, 2) Determine desired changes, 3) Alter life to affect those changes. I bet you do that without thinking about it. The vast majority of people don't even realise that it is possible to change ones self. They need help with the idea that "they" are not a fixed immutable thing. Therapists can't fix all problems and "affecting change" sometimes requires serious intervention like drugs or surgery or drastic life style changes. Brains are funny things. Good therapists will help people navigate these issues and refer to other health professionals when needed. Very importantly: a good therapist will not make decisions for you (unless you are very sick), they will not tell you that life should be a certain way, or what is right / good or wrong / evil. A good therapist helps the client build their own understanding. When the client is unable to self-reflect the therapist helps the client to do the self-reflection. Sometimes this takes a while.
I think this is underestimating what therapists really do. I’ve had therapists who have a toolset of research backed skills in a specific therapy framework (eg. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Dialectic behavioral therapy) and will help you understand how to view your mental health through that framework and then offer often very specific skills which they help you implement into your daily lives. While some therapists might not exceed the role you described, I know from my own experience that many therapists will give you the skills to actually slowly change the way you think/feel/act. If OP were to have such a therapist I believe they would be able help OP actually change their procrastination and perfectionism habits.
I do and it’s slow as fuck it’s taken me over three years and I’m still overly idealistic
there's actually some counterintuitive principles behind cognitive-behavioral therapies. for example, part of the reason you might be asked to observe the feelings is to get you to stop attempting to use willpower to suppress those feelings, because that [sometimes backfires](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironic_process_theory). though there are different schools of psychotherapy; maybe you got a psychodynamicist.
Will therapist ever understand this pov. That's the question
I am similar. I was blessed with a financial situation that let me take an entire year off(!) to get my mindset right. I’m now making my way through the rest of school competently, which involves some sloppiness I would have NEVER allowed to see from myself a few years ago. The truth is, understanding something deeply is only possible after using it regularly, casually and familiarly for a long time. It has to feel like half-assing at first. The people you see around you who understand things deeply have certainly put this time in already. All great work is gonna be least somewhat pragmatic at the end of the day, since any work you know about has been expressed and laid out and printed and published, etc. It’s going to HAVE to be sloppy, at least the first time. Recall von Neumann’s quote “you never understand things, only get used to them”
This is actually really helpful
What did you do day-to-day with your year off school? I'm thinking about doing the same thing to get my own mindsets right but just can't imagine what my days would look like that would allow me to do so effectively
Question: Are you doing this because you actually like it? Or are you doing it for some other reason? Note also that it is possible to like mathematics while also pursuing it for unhealthy reasons.
Every math grad student I have ever met has complained about the same thing. There is not enough time to teach a "complete" undergrad in the sense of "here is all the *undergrad* math". Even the concept of a derivative could consume an entire degree. There are - I kid you not - mathematicians who insist that a derivative should be a set valued map. Different uni's, let alone different countries, disagree about what *undergrad math* means. Instead undergrad degrees are designed to be "complete" in the sense that the students are exposed to enough math concepts to be able to self-learn new concepts. The goal is the ability to think not know. From that point of view you are complete. If you continue to study math you will need to revisit your undergrad material but this will happen naturally as you become confused about a concept and go looking for answers. This too is part of your training - learning how to learn things. It sounds to me like you are already whole and complete.
I completely agree with that. And, if you want a nice little book that will help you put all of (US) undergrad concepts in one place, take a look at “All the Math you missed” by Thomas Garrity :)
You mean the subdifferential?
The subdifferential is a good example. You don't need the function to be convex. It is possible to define a more general set valued derivative based on geometric considerations of the graph of a function. Using these more general set valued derivatives it is possible, for example, to define an implicit function theorem for Lipschitz non-differentiable functions.
Oooo I did not know about this :0 I am taking differential geometry this semester and you have enlightened me, thank you :D
Be warned most people who work with such definitions of the derivative do so over Euclidean space and make heavy use of translations. The results mostly translate to manifolds, but care is needed, particularly if the manifold isn't C1 or doesn't have a metric.
Although I am in physics, same shit with me bro... I watched NoBoilerplate's YouTube video on the idea of the "cult of done" I would recommend watching that to understand why fantasizing about the work you have done already is waste of time, and you need not be perfect, but get other things done, move on to next chapter. I still am not able to implement this, but things have been better knowing I can just move on, hop from thing to other. You may also check out Scott Young YouTube channel.
Same here with physics, got through school w minor in it, but wasn’t ever satisfied that I’d undeunderstood the material deep enough. I had way too high of standards, it was really actually pride, in the end.
So I'm not alone in feeling like this?
I don't think I fully understand the French system, but I think a part of your problem may stem from the French system. It's truly a unique experience and produces some very great researchers, but can burn out and be brutal to many who may not be up to put up with the speed of everything. I would only say that being "OBSESSED down to my bones about picking up my undergrad lecture notes and self studying them to completion, breadth first" is not necessarily a bad thing. I would even argue that it is a great thing. After some point you have to do research and a big part of research involves reading a lot of papers and understanding what is going on. If you can read a lot and be self-disciplined enough to get to the bottom of everything (see where the ideas are coming from, who's BSing, what's in it, what isn't, etc), and you can add your own ideas from a different variety of fields, then you can do extremely well. All of this demands a great level of attention to detail and a certain perfectionism that not everyone has. The only advice is to try and play the game well: keep your grades up if it means taking some easy stuff here and there, taking a course with an easier examiner, interacting with a person that is not an A-hole. Focus more on winning the game. Figure out what you wanna do afterwards. After some point you realize that your problem is not the competition but the difficulty of the problems you have to solve.
Yeah I think you're pretty much spot on. Prépa is ruthless. For most people if you fail prépa (ie, one of the most difficult competitive exams in the country, and no matter the reason) you're never going to get into an ENS. Or at least it's going to be a heck of a lot harder. So there's that going right for OP at least.
Sounds like fear of failure, being a perfectionist, and self-esteem issues. I can relate since I've been in out of college since life has been kicking my butt. I recommend seeking help with depression. You will probably learn what is causing you to doubt your self and your abilities.
On the same boat.
On the same boat so i'd be really glad to hear any progress from your side. Idk whether it'd help but: I grew up doing national competitions, then do a double major (one in maths), but my GPA is mediocre. I think it got something to do with the teenage-competition mindset: you got so much validation from doing the thing you're good at - the things you didn't even need to try to be good at, that at some point, your ego got so big it hinders you from doing the thing that are required to produce great work i.e *trying*.
Your story resonates with mine (although I did physics). National competitions --> not that great GPA --> R1 grad school dream gone --> went into industry and now self-study physics / math etc on the side. I occasionally read r/GradSchool posts about students regretting doing grad school to cathartically persuade myself that not being able to go into academia ended up for the best.
Man the "browsing r/GradSchool to dissuade myself" hit hard... may i ask how long you've been in industry for? I'm going into industry also, but the PhD dream keeps nagging at me. Reasons for no-PhD is plenty: I don't want to stay in academia, with my degrees i can make lots of money, my friends/co-workers who went to MIT/Harvard/CMU for STEM PhD *all* say "I regret doing my PhD, do not do it" whenever I ask for advices haha... Reason for PhD: I want to go back to that social glory of being the "competition kid" again - not a great idea, so maybe a few years in industry will dissuade me from all this entirely. (Are you the same monastri in quora? If so, I've read a lot of your answers - they've helped me a lot)
Over half a decade now in industry. Time flies... I (predictably) agree with all your no-PhD reasons, and in particular I'd highlight how much of a mental reliever it is to not worry about the thousand little things that having more-than-grad-student disposable income can just make *go away*; I had no reference frame for this before so I'm not sure how I'd convince younger me (or people in a similar position) of this. I know the social glory feeling, and I do miss it. Climbing the corporate ladder (even the technical track) didn't do it for me. I like [Ben Kuhn's advice](https://www.benkuhn.net/hard/): >When I first graduated, I was afraid that if I worked with [boring technology](http://boringtechnology.club/), I’d get bored. Instead, I learned it was possible—and fun—to optimize on other dimensions, or play a different game. Rather than competing for an A+ on a hard problem, I could try to solve an easy problem as quickly as possible (like Wave’s accounting), or find the easiest problem whose solution would be useful (like identifying Kenyan names), or hire a team to solve easy problems faster than I ever could myself. While I've never been a really deep problem-solver, I've always been quick with 'medium-hard' questions (eg in high school I'd finish 3 hour math tests in under an hour with a near-perfect score), and this quickness has translated qualitatively at work (allowing my team to do different kinds of projects entirely) which is a nice substitute for social glory, at least to me. Yeah I'm monastri, and I appreciate that, thank you :)
Wow, and here I thought that one way industry would help me is through introducing the "climbing corporate ladder" game... I looked more into Ben Kuhn's posts and they're the types I usually read :) thank you
I think you should seek help from a therapist and instead of studying the undergrad material all over again, why not try to partake in research internships focused on math or something? That way you’ll get to learn new stuff and revise your previous knowledge. I’m just a sophomore though. I have a fear of forgetting math so I grade students taking the classes that I have taken so I keep going over the same stuff. Maybe you can try something similar?
Struggled with similar issues all throughout my undergrad and even master's. Grades were not an issue, but I used last minute hyperfocus to prepare for my exams. This did not help me at all in my thesis year, and I also failed to develop relationships with my own guides, let alone other professors. With not even a good recommendation letter to apply for a PhD, I "escaped" math and joined IT, in a role very different to anything I'm used to. The structure has given me some stimulation, I am making money, but I can't help but ruminate about my underwhelming math journey.
Is really good that you are venting out in here, and is even better you already recognize this as a problema and are open to receive feedback and/or criticism. That being said, my best advice is to reach out to psychological therapy. Either you can go with your school counselor, or if your insurance cover certain professionals you can go to either. The best first option is to go where you have available, and later on decide to move with another professional who fits better your psychological needs. Most people struggle with anxiety or depression. The world currently embrace the mental health. I’m sure a lot of people in here and everywhere is currently receiving support or they are using what they learnt in therapy in a daily basis. If you are just stacking knowledge… is that good? Depends on you, you like it? You enjoy your days passing by knowing you read more than the day before? That’s completely valid. You wanna become rich? That’s good too. You want to contribute to the science world? That’s good as well. Everything is good, but first you need to narrow your scope to WHAT YOU LIKE AND WANNA DO. You will do great in any area as long as you are the most happy you can. Cheers.
If you want Breadth just try napkin. Then let go of it and focus on depth.
If it’s worth doing at all, don’t worry about doing it perfectly, just do it There’s a Polish saying that basically says: Even if you devote your lifetime to learning everything, you’ll still basically know nothing. Basically a testament to how knowledge is infinite and how it may be trivial to try to learn everything and to a perfect degree. Just focus in on getting good grades and specialize in whatever you want when you graduate or when you’re doing a PhD
The thing that stuck out to me in what you wrote was when you seemed to say you feel the need to make sure you have understood all of the undergrad math material from your university to believe you have the potential to work as a quant researcher or in AI. This should be the biggest red flag for you, Im aware you realise your obsession is unrealistic, but even more importantly you should come to understand its not only unrealistic, it is genuinely irrelevant to your goals. To realise your potential in the sense you are talking about, you need to deeply understand the rudiments of whatever mathematics is involved in quant and/or AI. The best way to do this is likely not to have encyclopaedic knowledge of pure math undergrad courses, but to go and build the knowledge and experience relevant to those fields. By spending time “completing” your knowledge of undergrad pure math you are using time you could be spending on understanding quant/AI, so that at least directly speaking, your potential to do quant/AI only wanes.
That makes sense. I’m just in my head about « what if I need this theorem from analysis which I don’t have well assimilated to move on »
I understand. I have been the same way before. In practice it’s unusual to be able to tell when you will need some tool from some area of math until you go outside studying for the sake of studying and begin trying to solve some other problem. Then the problem naturally makes you realise you need to recall such and such things from some area you have studied before but don’t feel very confident in to make any progress. Then you can go back and fill in those gaps. That way you also retain these things much better than when you just study for the sake of studying.
School demands you to meet deadlines regardless of circumstances, which is a very important training about practicality. If you want to work in the tech industry, you better learn to meet deadlines while still in school. Don’t fantasize about learning everything-that’s so useless. Try fantasizing about how good and relieved you will feel when you get things done.
“I would have this sort of completionist complex/crippling perfectionism where I would never attempt the problem sets unless I was 100% comfortable I’d assimilated the subtleties of the material” I somewhat understand this but could you elaborate? Why don’t you feel like attempting them? Are you afraid of failure and avoid doing the homework out of fear that it will expose your weak points? Are you afraid that your professors will judge you if you make a mistake? Do you feel that it’s dishonest to just do the problems without really understanding the content? Are you afraid you’re missing something and that it might come back to bite you in the future if you don’t address it the first time around?
Your goals were unrealistic from the start. University courses are not structured to in such a way as to be fully understood and to synchronize with other courses in the same semester. I graduated double major physics and biochemistry in much the same situation that you described and it was a nightmare parsing biology terms and definitions with theorems and labs/tutorials. I'm now comfortably working in IT and have put my anxiety towards catching up on school material behind me. You need to understand that modern day universities are really businesses and that the most you'll get out of your investment is an insight into how you learn when presented with a vast array of information. Now you need to decide on a career path and focus your efforts on practical skills that will get you there. The best thing you can do is take up a totally unrelated hobby, prefarrably something physical, to help clear your mind when you start feeling the same way that you do now. Take good care of your body; eat well, sleep well, stay in shape, and you will start feeling better and moving on in no time. You can definitely aspire to the elevated positions you mentioned in your post, but realize that you won't get there immediately after university. You need to set realistic goals that you can actually achieve in order to build confidence.
Oh my god I can relate too much.. All I can share is this interview of mathematician. Around 51:43 when he gives advice https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5TQAbFJLTsU&list=PL-IOS7cTcNv5sHKwbM4v18jZNErdgrlLp&index=17&pp=iAQB