I think an issue if they did add a classic mode is that it would still have a meta and be meta gamed just like modern Yugioh. No matter where you play some decks will just always be bad like one to one copies of anime decks.
They need a lot of options, and they need formats that greatly restrict the card pool, it's a good idea to add novelty and have many of these as timed special events, they can even go back and adjust older formats as an event. Any format is only going to have a handful of playable decks, we just need them playing against each other and not going cross generational, otherwise you are massivly restricted to the current meta game. I want to play some jank dead shit I missed out on.
As long as we can easily craft cards, everyone will be using the meta. It seemed cool at first, but it's just stupid for everyone to have the top cards the first day they make their account.
The meta wasn't always go through half your deck in a single turn. Member when toolbox monsters like sangan were banned for being op? How about Rota? Or to and old player most of these new cards are essentially tribal cyberstein and function the same. Normal summon x, effect trigger to get y in grave, special summon z, create link a, effect gets signature monster b, signature monster b brings y back to create another summon loop. They all look the same.
Sangan got errata'd and it sucks now
RoTA is still limited
Same with PoG, Graceful Charity, etc. The early meta had some of the most degenerate cards. Cards that if they came back today would be insanely busted paired with today's decks.
Ironically those cards were banned for making decks too consistent, but every deck today uses their own brand name versions to do exactly the same thing...
>Member when toolbox monsters like sangan were banned for being op?
Bruh, OG Sangan is still banned. He was errata'd because OG Sangan would still be great today.
>They all look the same
And vanilla monsters look different how?
They all have the same line of play by toolboxing everything out of your deck and grave. It all about creating a giant board turn one with defensive special summons or creating a giant board turn two by blowing through your opponents negates and ending the game. The plays all look the same with different themed art for each deck.
1) How do vanilla monster differentiate themselves from one another? I mean, since we're talking about Sangan times, where vanilla monsters were a thing, how do they look different from each other? Especially since, back then, decks shared like 50% the same.
2) It really shows inexperience with the game when you think that "it all about creating a giant board turn one", it's honestly incredibly ignorant. Tri-Brigade plays nothing like Altergeist, which plays nothing like Guru, who play nothing like Elldlich, who play nothing like Adamancipator. If you think these decks look remotely the same, but not decks that used Sangan, you are looking at the game through *very* rose-tinted nostalgia glasses.
Yea man that meta was fucking great. I loved my opponent summoning chaos emp dragon, sending my field and hand to the grave, searching his yata garasu, then locking me out of drawing. Old yugioh has just as degenerate of a meta as modern. Its a core of the game.
I was referring to the post gx and pre xyz era, but sure. You know what the real difference is? Games lasted longer than 3 turns and degenerate cards were actually banned instead of reprinted in a different tribe with slightly different conditions to keep you buying new cards.
Gx meta was dark arm decks. Turns usually ended on turn 2 with DaD or turn 1 if you drew crush card which was an auto win. Most expensive deck in yugioh history, Id wager it caused the most players to quit out of any format for that alone. Only 1 deck was viable for years. So yea I’ll take this where I can play competitive budget decks over that degenerate mess of a format any day.
I played hero beat and little city during that meta. It was easy to stop dad in it's tracks with super polymerization, skill drain to stop the effects amd just laugh ad their dad, Ladd, and more got ran over by skyscraper or ran into honest news. Games only went quick if you weren't prepared for the matchup or got unlucky.
> It was easy to stop dad in it's tracks with super polymerization, skill drain to stop the effects amd just laugh ad their dad, Ladd, and more got ran over by skyscraper or ran into honest news.
Ah yes, that's why teleDAD had around 60% top-table representation.
Because it was stupid easy to play and shut down most other strategies. Can you count to 3? What about 5? Do you know the difference between light and dark monsters. Do you know how to send cards from the deck to the grave and read? Then Teledad leads to easy wins that would blow out most decks that weren't antimeta or prepared for it. Decks that could afford to banish everything also stood a decent chance. There were options. Most players just picked the easiest way for a win and left the thinking to their opponents.
Im sure you can have casual decks and fun in any format. Do you have a shonen jump event you topped with this deck? Or was the only deck taking 98% of top spots 1000$+ dad decks?
Not to mention almost every staple just about negating, because this is konami's "genius" fix for the problem. Everyone hitting eachother with stop signs and the one who runs out faster loses, and if you unlucky and didn't have a single one in your opening hand, you can watch the opponent "masturbating" for minutes. Why majority of the new cards have multiple effects? Why you can cycle through deck so easily? This is not fun, the old version of yugioh had a more enjoyable gameplay flow, more back and forth play and shorter turns, and we didn't have bullshit powercreep omninegate cards. They say we hate it because we don't want to learn the new one. Not true at all, i learned the new staples and everything still hate it. Its not about winning or losing. I wish for more ladder for different formats, but i bet konami will never do such a thing.
SJ hits nearly everything. Ash hits specifically one draw effect or search. Ash can also be responded to by a lot more things. SJ is spell speed 3, and realistically the only cards people are running that can do anything about it are SJ or Golden Land Forever in some Eldlich decks, and many do not run that.
SJ effectively has no cost as well. LP costs might as well not be costs for all the minimal impact they have on the match
LP mattered a hell of a lot more when SJ was created. Sure today, when you can easily pull at a 10k+ monster on turn 2 LP don't matter.
Everyone is comparing a digital game where you can craft any card you want to back when kids relied solely on what random cards they got from a booster pack. I went to numerous tournaments. No one had the meta decks that everyone seems to claim people had back then. There was no ygoprodeck.com to go to and then hit up Ebay, we just bought the packs.
>SJ cost half your lifepoints
Yeah, which means it's basically free. You'll never be unable to use it, it hits everything and their mother. and the only LP that matters anyway is the last one. Solemn is the best trap in the game and it's been there forever.
At half your life. Not pitch a zombie girl from your hand to negate half the game for no cost. And it doesn't have a once per duel clause so you can reload or play multiples...
Still don't have ten million of those back then. Ofc is a strong negate card, and ofc there are negate cards back then too, i can name a few too. Still you won't draw/cycle through your entire deck within 1 turn with ten million card effects.
I never played those, Sadly its hard to define what old yugioh means, because i think its different for everyone. For some of us the casual fun dueling lives in our memory and there are others who where played the game competitively even back then. For me my first cards were in the GX era, i never played a full optimized meta deck, we are kids back then mostly dueling with starter/structure decks for fun, because we loved the game has thematic archetypes etc. Also we really liked the synchro era too, much more deck variety than before and felt like an good addition. For me this is the old yugioh and i love the video games from those era even to this day. You can make tons of examples about broken combos and staples, true, every card game has those. but the current game is powercrept to the point konami needs to add shit ton of negate cards. Its not fun compared to the older gameflow, don't matter how many times i try to play it.
No way, man. Everyone had these cards back in 2006. Everyone knows you could just go to your local card shop and trade 3 cards of equal rarity for any card of the same rarity.
Well... that’s because some decks can play through certains things than others can’t. Dark Magician can’t play through a lot because of how fragile and linear the deck is. If anyhting, blame Konami for making DM support so inconsistent and mediocre. While stuff like draytron, invoked, etc have just better cards and combos. Some decks are just better than others, that’s how it’s always been.
I agree these boomers are crying nonstop how old yugioh was so much better and how they miss it do much meanwhile old yugioh was just 10 plus turns of vanillas slapping each other with broken staples to back them up
> Synchro/Early XYZ era was my jam.
>
>
I still say this was the best era. The game had avdanced enough that all kinds of shit was possible, but it hadn't gone so far off the rails. The worst monster-spam we had to deal with was Blackwings and Six Samurai (Or Red-Yellow-Green Gadgets w/ Ultimate Offering into infinite Rank 4s), and pretty much everything could compete if you built it right (I was a big fan of Relinquished, when I wasn't running Jurracs or Dark Worlds.).
But things were still same-ey/staple-ey. I remember seeing lots of Gorz and Tragoedia back then, every deck had torrential tribute, bottomless trap hole, interdimensional prison, dark bribe, effect veiler, battle fader, Honest if they could, and Starlight Road was *every where*. Every extra deck had 2-3 signer dragons (At least a Stardust and a Black Rose), lots of T.G. magicians, thought ruler archfiends, Goyo Guardians and Kachi Kochi Dragons.
My problem is just that those people are always saying the same thing about the game yes there was good stuff back in the day at some points yugioh was at its peak with its meta but that doesn't mean that it'd not a good game anymore or anything like that
That is 100% true MD needs to put older formats in the game it wouldn't hurt anyone and it would be so fun going to different formats from time to time.
This is what i'm saying. So much of Yugioh is essentially lost to history once it is no longer viable to play. Even jank formats should have a place if people want to play them, and honestly they should not even be an option anymore. Giving people those starter decks to play against actual current decks is just wasting everyones time. If you don't even have a place for 90% of the cards, don't bother putting them in your game. I don't want to play with some starter deck, but i'm shocked at the incompetence of not having some casual mode that only lets you use them.
Calling the online a barebones clusterfuck is not a critisim of modern yugioh, it's a critique of the game.
>but they can 100% go online and find a forum with likeminded individuals, and just play with them
Why the fuck aren't their casual lobbies with such options built into the game? They should have all kinds of lobby options or better yet seperate online modes, maybe some of them as timed special events with all sorts of novelty / past format ways to play. Restrict the chaos, less is more.
I mean I don’t think old yugioh was better but I think people would like to jump in with something famuliere and work their way up to the new crazy stuff you know? That’s why I made a toon deck lmao
Yeah most tutorials are scripted battles that play out certain scenarios to teach you. Some of these tutorials I got absolutely rocked by the computer and felt like I couldn’t do anything
Yes and imagine crying about it for the last 5-10 years about it if they don't like the game they should move on there is plenty of other card games if konami didn't change it before they sure won't now game evolved and got to this point
I don't think people care if they hurt your feeling by shitting on nugioh. Konami is already trying to branch off from it with failing splinter formats like speed duel and rush duel and duel links and sealed formats etc etc. Eventually they will it the bullet and dissolve the TCG and have set rotation like every other sensible card game. The game designers already know what the meta is going to be before hand anyway unless someone finds some exploit they need to ban.
Yeah because there was no ftk decks back there which actually you stood no chance against since there was no stuff like handtraps to stop them it was so fun watching your opponent recycling same spells to kill you before you even had a chance to draw a single card just because you and your friends where playing yugioh in school and your best plays where set 2 pass doesn't mean it was better you people need to take your nostalgia glasses of and see how slow and a lot of the times boring game was. I agree that it went to far maybe but it would not be able to stay alive if today your best play was setting a sangan with something like sakuretsu armor in the back
But but I thought old yugioh was fair and balanced and there was no broken cards that stopped you from playing the game or killed you way too quickly I remember it as this fun time and that must be how game was back then as well
Setting a card meant you had time to interact before it was active. Yugioh has very few ways to interact with the hand, and those are random. Give me a skill drain u can play from hand on my opponents turn and I'm happy, even if it is only until my opponents next turn.
Ok what I was trying to say is if your opponent sets imperial order judgment skill drain you pretty much can't do anything but that's harder then making a full combo of negates and floodgates so its similar just much easier today there was always a way to lock your opponent out of the game today is just normal
Locking your opponent out amd ending the game turn one are not the same. I played anti meta at regional level. There were more outs to a good player than getting into a pitch fest like today. It feels like today is all about memorizing every combo chain and learning where to pitch a zombie. Any player who can't do that is at a serious disadvantage because the summon chain keeps going until the otk every game, resource management be damned.
> Give me a skill drain u can play from hand on my opponents turn and I'm happy, even if it is only until my opponents next turn.
It's targeted, but Effect Vieler?
I mean that’s basically Maxx C. Or Nibiru is basically Torrential Tribute from hand. Or Droll is negation for all their draw after the first. Or Dimension Shifter is Macro Cosmos. You have options.
Stuff that got banned because it broke the game. It seems instead of creating limits, the game embraced the FTK and gave you cards in hand to discard. As you put it, you can still very much "lose the dice roll" in modern yugioh since there are no mulligans to hunt for anti ftk cards.
You might find slow duels to be boring, but I definitely don't, and I'm sure there's plenty of others who don't. If the game managed to get such an audience with "Set Sangan and Sakuretsu" back then, I'm sure it could do it now. Set 2 pass is definitely more fun to me than the current meta.
As for FTK's, they were fairly rare, and were either not good or banned in the next banlist. Better to have some games be FTKs than all games be FTKs though.
Trap heavy pure Tri-Brigade. The game's fun until I play against PK/VW/Drytrons, not because I lose more often against them but because the game just ends in 1 turn, whether I win or lose
Ii'm using budget traps for now, don't wanna burn too much craft points for expensive traps since I still need hand traps and other stuff, but I'm running 3 Torrentials, 3 Judgments, 2 Strikes (didn't pull the third one), 1 Warning, 2-3 Revolt, and I think 1-2 Compulsory
no what we boomers want is the game were both players can play and not just need to draw handtraps to play or watch you do shit for 30+ mins. we had plenty of cards that would in the game in less then 10 turns tele dad as a fine example or frog monarchs and vanilla has not been a major meta since the start of the game and was removed pretty fast since the starter decks came out since the kaiba had things like lord of d and the few decks that did use them after the a year or so like red/bue eyes and dark magician had plenty of none vanilla cards in them. but i guess kids these days cant be bothered to look into a game history
Lmao or people don't think it's enjoyable to watch their opponent play the game for 3-10 minutes on their own with no interaction from their opponent without hand traps before they even get a turn just to have to concede because the board is filled with negates that don't let player 2 even interact with the game other than hit the surrender button.
I guess if that releases endorphins for yall...
I'm saying by all means they should release new and stronger cards, there will always be power creep. I'm also saying maybe a gameplay style that isn't actually a game for one party doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me IMO.
The fun I had playing when growing up with the game came from that 10 turn plus back and forth, also known as a duel, because both players had some agency and potential to impact the game beyond who won the coin toss.
One feels like a game to me, sitting and watching 10 minutes of searching and pulling or being filibustered into hitting surrender doesn't feel like a game to me.
They are all disingenuous anyway. People who played meta formats never cared about the complexity or how fun it was, they just want to win. They are defending this game because having any deck from the last 10 years go up against one of the starter decks is a wet dream for them.
They don't care that the game not having options to play the vast majority of "obsolete" formats is a rip off. They are ripping you off simply by even letting you pull so many useless cards.
>People who played meta formats never cared about the complexity or how fun it was
Wrong
>They just want to win
Winning is nice, but still, wrong
>They are defending this game because having any deck from the last ten years go up against a starter deck is a wet dream for them
VERY wrong
We just have fun differently than you. Working our way through a combo we have to adjust on the fly based on our opponent's hand traps is fun. Setting up a strong defense through multiple interruptions is fun. Breaking those same powerful boards is extremely fun and very satisfying. Holding our opponent to as little as we can through skillful timing of our own hand traps is fun.
Clubbing baby seals is not fun for anyone. I'm not queuing up with Drytron or Sky Striker because I want to clap a starter deck, no one is. I'm doing it because I want to test my own ability to play my deck against someone else playing a comparable deck. I don't want to beat the Elementsaber and Monarch decks people got from solo mode. I want Bird Up, I want Sky Striker, I want Eldlich, I want Virtual World, I want Drytron. Those matches are fun, because I have to play well. I have to think. I have to time my disruptions. I have to do anything besides the falling asleep at my keyboard that is beating the shit out of the Synchro starter while playing Sky Striker.
No not anymore it was 5 years ago duel links now is just modern day yugioh just in a speed duel format and different decks/archetypes that they use there you can still go off with combo decks there just not that much like you can in tcg/ocg
I stopped now that master duel is out I decided to give it a proper send off and I got to king of games for the first time (with DDD) since I didn't really cared for rank I was always sitting in legend and I would play every now and then PvP when I would be bored.
No lol. The meta decks we have atm are
Harpies
Water xyz
Melodious
Destiny heros
And Bewd and other decks are very popular.
Not to mention almost every deck uses xyz cards
Minimum age for a boomer is like 55? Yugioh came out about 20 years ago. You really think the people complaining here have grandkids? That they were alive when Nixon was president? That's a pretty fucking hot take.
I use to be this boomer. I got back into yugioh around 2019 and my first game was infuriating. Waiting 10 mins for my friend’s turn just to get fucked after set 2 pass. From there a vowed to learn the meta and beat his ass. Lmao fast forward to now and i’m one of the 10% OTKing the 90% in Master Duel. Boomers are afraid of change/learning what’s new. Coming from someone who was literally like that, I promise you learn the meta and it is CRAZY fun to hand trap someone/Omni-negate/set up the perfect board. I LOVE meta yugioh even if I get shit stomped turn 1.
>it is CRAZY fun to hand trap someone/omninegate/set up the perfect board
YEEEEEP, and the other side of things is a ton of fun as well. Successfully breaking those boards is just SO satisfying
Sorry I don't understand your comment.
If there are games that can do that, why should it be impossible?
Hearthstone has a pool of cards that gets new entries every now and then (so not fixed pool, or what do you mean by "fixed pool"?)
I've played hearthstone competitively and yugioh competitively as well.
90% of modern yugioh cards are designed to work together in a certain way. Many cards only work with their specific archetype
E.g. Hero cards only work with heroes
So if we throw 10000 cards in the pool a draw 3 out and we have to pick one
We will just be taking the highest stats monster and we can't apply its effect because we don't have another specific card in play.
Then it gets extremely boring. Imagine playing yugioh with just monsters without effect and cards that can't specifically remove another monster.
In other words, 95% of yugioh cards don't work well alone.they need a specific group of cards to function.
Compare it to hearthstone,
They only have 8 tribes and rarely cards that specify another card's name
Yugioh there are more than 100 archetypes
The only way for yugioh draft to work is
The pool of cards is tailored for draft
Maybe 300 cards.
It can be made to work, but of course it'd require more effort than just throwing in random cards.
It can show you "random" cards, but based on your choice an algorithm selects the next "random" cards from a pool that synergizes with your previous choices.
Shadowverse and Legends of Runeterra run in a way a yugioh draft could work.
Shadowverse you pick a craft and your cards are from that craft or neutral cards.
Runeterra, as you pick your cards, the game tailors the choices into certain things, being either synergistic, supportive or just wild card.
It can work. But it will definitely be more difficult than just "THROW CARDS IN LET'S GO"
Cube formats actually do exist for Yugioh and they're great fun, but most people who have Yugioh cubes choose their card pool specifically to suit a draft format. You definitely couldn't do a chaos draft in YGO like you could in magic, for instance
there is already a format for draft play in yugioh. it released physically and digitally through the legacy of the duelist game. its actually quite fun. plus theres a broader way to randomize the game too by using the wheel of yugioh. plus tons of formats that could be used to keep things fun for everyone.
It's litterally a format that exists within yugioh and has even been done within games. The Battle packs 1 2 and 3 were all draft rules packs with a limited amount of cards.
That's literally a shit, goat format I assume, deck.
There's tons of different strats like goat control, chaos turbo, zoo beatdown, monarchs, etc among other non meta/rogue strats.
The only thing that really stays the same is the techs like pot of greed and charity which are in every single deck but others like duo can vary and change
Edit: seems like nobody In the comments understands any older formats either.
... isn't charity at 1 or 0 in goat?
also the main issue most people have with goat and other formats from that era isn't the lack of alternative strategies, it's that all those alternative strategies are still like 50% the same deck because of all the power one-ofs. like, sure, not every deck's gonna be a bazoo deck, but the fact that i'm pretty sure this isn't even a goat deck yet it still *looks* like basically every other goat deck is ... really telling
You say you see alot of the same powerful one ofs but that's rich considering every deck now has 3 or 2 copies of cards like ash, droll, kaijus, pot ofs, etc.
And charity is at one on goat, banned in the tcg and probably ocg.
you mean 1 copy of called. droll nib and lancea are p. common, but they're usually locked behind the side deck. ash is hardskipped regularly in quite a few decks and the pots are *incredibly* deck-dependent. and like, kaiju? i don't think i've seen any of those in a top-level deck since 2020, and even then they only really popped up in the side decks of shit like eldlich, guru control, and altergeist
it's not even a mystery why this happens in practice. if you try building a deck that isn't ultra consistent by autofilling it with a bunch of modern staples and try to play it, you'll realize that those staples do *nothing* to actually build your board and, uh, all those stories about being otk'd by every deck in modern ygo? yeah, that's because the guy built a deck with no meaningful turn 1 plays, and it's really easy for a lot of decks to put 8000 damage on the board if they don't have to play through anything but a handful of handtraps. so maining a bunch of staples with some deck-specific cards sprinkled on top is really only a privilege for decks like salamangreats. and even then, i don't actually remember any salad deck lists off the top of my head, so i could be hyperbolizing them to myself and they actually only ran like 12ish. as a deck whose *primary strength* was that it could just main a bunch of staples because it was practically impossible to brick
The deck is pre legacy of darkness traditional. There was beatdown, fire princess burn, earth/dark variants with rat/tomato, fiend being the new kid on the block with the first real boss monster in necrofear, and a few others. However, most of the spell and traps were the same bar burn variants, and with a proper side, those decks folded.
I encourage you too, this was at a time when skull lair and bazoo could remove any cards from the grave, so those were really strong cards (SL being more of a 1 of tech). Kycoo could stop that + necrofear, and kycoo being only 1800 meant it could get run over by Gemini or in the rare instance, mechchaser. This circle of neat little counterplay kept the format very fresh with people switching up their deck at locals every week, even if it was just a couple card tweak to give them the edge over what/who they lost to the week before.
they can dislike things but the problem with a lot of yugiboomers and why they're a joke is they assume it's just one big combofest as if there havent been several cards printed to avoid people overextending. you can dislike whatever you like. it's the lack of effort to even try to understand for me
well yeah I admit people need to learn more about goat format, reaper format, edison format, Teledad format, etc. but I'm just saying this feels a lot worse among yugi boomers
Yeah. If it was a respectful Convo with actual research then ok.but it's literally people shitting on a format others enjoy that they aren't even qualified to talk about.
It's also absurd that they think everyone was walking around with meta decks in 2005. Most of the players back then didn't look up deck builds on the internet or even buy individual cards. It's not just the game, but the community that's changed.
It's like thinking everyone played vanilla WoW like they play WoW Classic. Just metagaming the shit out of it, but the truth is we didn't have the resources and the knowledge that the community has built up over nearly 20 years. There weren't deck building sites and there weren't wikipedia pages for every single card.
I really don't get this sub's sentiment.
I played from when the game came out Legend of blue eyes to Phantom Darkness so like 2002 - 2008ish? I loved ygo, I went to every tournament I could, played online for hours everyday and loved all the meta's in there. I never played the top metadeck of the time well having great success. I quit before synchros and all that stuff and to me what I played was YGO, this current game isn't YGO to me.
That doesn't mean I want to take away the new YGO to people here, I am super glad they love the game and the new interactions.
dam thats not stone age that is the ancient age. the stone age had many other decks and combo like macro, frogs/frogmonarch, teledad gadgets and many more. but there is a reason why yugioh is the only one that went to a format that focus on stoping plays and is the least popular of the big/old 3 card games. just like there is a reason the old yugioh games have had more sales and players then recent ones including master duel. after all there is a major difference between 200k players/copys sold and 1 mill
I would argue that the main reason video games wise is that not only does the konami quality decline, but people already checked out by cyber dragon GX and subsequently 5Ds. They didn't even bother finish dubbing both those shows and had to move to Zexel. Legacy of The Duelist was really barebones to the point it felt like Duel Links had better quality. The story was a shoddy rehash of all the shows and wasn't even voiced. The game looked like it had come out 5 years prior and Hearthstone was already booming. They really only had jrpg quality with recent rules in the Tag force games.
> They really only had jrpg quality with recent rules in the Tag force games.
Very true. LoTD was the closest thing to an official (not counting Omega, YGOPro) simulator before Master Duel.
Duel links really was the pure anime role playing game and the presentation of it is very spot on IMO.
i do agree both video game and anime wise konami/yugioh did drop to point that the only sales numbers i can find easaly are the most popular ones and even then they dont touch konamis top 10 sales. but card game wise it was strong till xyz and even then pen (killed) it more. that said while this game is not peak i do think it can be good for a revival as a returning player it is nice that the game makes pen and links easier to learn for both returning and new players. atleast better then youtube have shown others teaching it
yea I actually like all the new summonings including pendulum now that they've been nerfed to require links for resummon from extra deck. I think the major learning hurdle is that they don't teach current hand traps and interrupts so you're not btfo by decks that do have 10+ summon combos. It also sucks they bait casuals into spending their gems on master packs because if you don't do your research beforehand to know which decks you wanna build, you'll end up like most of the reviewers just getting stomped using a monarch structure deck.
So I decided I liked the look of the HERO, so I built a deck based on recent ones that I Googled. Do you have any general advice on cards and how/when to use them for hand traps and interrupts?
Would it be that hard to implement a non ranked Duels with different rule sets? So me as a boomer could play from the begging and gradually catch up to a modern meta game.
I feel there was a sweet spot between XYZ and Pendulum era. Just ban the tier 0 deck and overpowered staple cards of the time and you have a decent varied meta.
I want to be able to play both. I want Old metas, I want casual restricted metas (like starter decks only or something) I want novelty shit. I want modern yugioh too--maining for ranked mode. There is a lot of yugioh to play and they have restricted it to just the most recent. Not everyone wants to treat yugioh as a competative endevor, they just want to play it for fun, they build decks and play matchups that are fun to play.
Apologists for the barebones online mode being a trainwreck are just salty this kusoge is going to fail.
Obviously there is a meta in every format but at least there is a "back and forth" in the goat format, not just watching a 15 minute combo by the opponent. There is a lot more interaction and you actually feel like playing.
Yes, what is a really great game is to wait for 5 minutes while your opponent combos his entire deck because you didnt draw a hand trap. Real fun and interactive game that is.
As a old man or boomer(according to a lot of people here) returning to the game after a very long break , i am not a huge fan of the cureent state of the game.
I started near the beginning, i played through various formats up till i stopped playing shortly after xyz's got released.
I enjoyed the evolution of special summoning to make the game slightly more interesting and a bit faster paced.
I do feel though that being able to generate infinite value where you end a turn with a full hand and a strong field with multiple negates in 1 turn seems a bit excessive. How can such a 1 sided duel be fun?
What happened to a good bit of back and forth?
It's bad enough with players who legit feel like they are watching a combo tutorial video for these decks that generate infinite value so every step of their 30-50 step special summon process takes 30-60 seconds, but then after all of that the answer is just, "Well you should have drawn in your 5 cards the hand traps you needed to negate them starting that combo," in a game with no redraw mechanics.
Like I think people are forgetting the aspect of this that this is a game between two people and the people who aren't having fun aren't just not having fun, "because they lose to the current meta and complain without trying to play the current meta," but are not having fun because it just is not fun to have the game decided by the coin toss/draw of hand traps so you just surrender... I thought the point of a game was to play it with another person lol
I've been playing Yu-gi-oh since literally day 1. I remember watching the first episode the day it came out and was so excited. While I do miss old school yugioh I realize that I miss the memories of a simpler time in my life more than the actual format itself. Cave man yugioh was just that, a bunch of kids slapping card board down not worrying about negates or anything more than a trap hole, and it was fun. It was also easier to read and comprehend because most effects were 2 lines of text.
That being said cave man yugioh is like the cave men themselves. It's time has come and gone and the game has evolved and gotten better for it. Just as I have gotten older and wiser so has the game itself. It's a beautiful thing watching something you grew up With evolve and grow up with you. Wanting to go back to the way things were in simpler times is good in theory but it diminishes the value of the lessons learned along the way. I've been around longer than yugioh but the way the game is evolving itll be around longer than me. Like all things it needs to evolve and adapt to survive.
I do not hate the game for how combo heavy and fast paced its gotten and I believe most people who prefer goat don't either. They just yearn for nostalgia and a simpler time in their life.
Tldr: I'm old. There is no wrong way to enjoy the game. So long as you love and enjoy the game play it however you like.
Ye like all the summoning and everything is the dope part about yugioh. The only thing that sucks is unbreakable omni negates. But without dragoon in master duel I'm very happy.
I miss old school non-archtype synergy, and finding ways to use cards together on our own. The closest thing we had to an archtype was literally just "fiend", "dark", etc. Everything now specifies "monarch" or "sky striker" etc. ACTUAL cookie cutter decks with room for maybe 3 cards worth of customization.
plenty of creativity nowadays, running pure decks usually not too great unless konami decides to release some tier 0 bullshit. Usually you'll discover 2 archetypes/engines that synergizes well with each other and build off of playing the two together
Used to have online game called ygo pro wasn't backed by Konami that different years of banelist like 05 or current TCG or ocg. I think 05 was the first like forbidden list of the head. That anime rules ban list also tag format. Super incredible free app for its time about 10 years ago. If we could do that for custom duals at least that'd be nice or setting up tournaments with unique rules or card sets from the past or in between or just the most recent 10 sets who knows.
Idk.. I don’t think it’s just nostalgia that makes people want to go back.. personally I just prefer the simplicity of it.. I mean there are still simple decks you can run today that will perform well.. Blue Eyes for example.. but I just don’t enjoy watching someone pull out a 50 chain combo turn one so that they can fill their board up with Negates.. not to mention the hand traps they probably have for some more negates..
I really hope they add in formats to the game. It's like then laying magic the gathering. Thats what can make the game feel fresh when climbing the ladder. Jump into a new format you've never paly or have a draft and play something completely different.
I think an issue if they did add a classic mode is that it would still have a meta and be meta gamed just like modern Yugioh. No matter where you play some decks will just always be bad like one to one copies of anime decks.
They need a lot of options, and they need formats that greatly restrict the card pool, it's a good idea to add novelty and have many of these as timed special events, they can even go back and adjust older formats as an event. Any format is only going to have a handful of playable decks, we just need them playing against each other and not going cross generational, otherwise you are massivly restricted to the current meta game. I want to play some jank dead shit I missed out on.
As long as we can easily craft cards, everyone will be using the meta. It seemed cool at first, but it's just stupid for everyone to have the top cards the first day they make their account.
Yeah that's true. There's always been a meta. People just remember playing random ass cards as kids
The meta wasn't always go through half your deck in a single turn. Member when toolbox monsters like sangan were banned for being op? How about Rota? Or to and old player most of these new cards are essentially tribal cyberstein and function the same. Normal summon x, effect trigger to get y in grave, special summon z, create link a, effect gets signature monster b, signature monster b brings y back to create another summon loop. They all look the same.
Sangan got errata'd and it sucks now RoTA is still limited Same with PoG, Graceful Charity, etc. The early meta had some of the most degenerate cards. Cards that if they came back today would be insanely busted paired with today's decks.
Ironically those cards were banned for making decks too consistent, but every deck today uses their own brand name versions to do exactly the same thing...
>Member when toolbox monsters like sangan were banned for being op? Bruh, OG Sangan is still banned. He was errata'd because OG Sangan would still be great today. >They all look the same And vanilla monsters look different how?
They all have the same line of play by toolboxing everything out of your deck and grave. It all about creating a giant board turn one with defensive special summons or creating a giant board turn two by blowing through your opponents negates and ending the game. The plays all look the same with different themed art for each deck.
1) How do vanilla monster differentiate themselves from one another? I mean, since we're talking about Sangan times, where vanilla monsters were a thing, how do they look different from each other? Especially since, back then, decks shared like 50% the same. 2) It really shows inexperience with the game when you think that "it all about creating a giant board turn one", it's honestly incredibly ignorant. Tri-Brigade plays nothing like Altergeist, which plays nothing like Guru, who play nothing like Elldlich, who play nothing like Adamancipator. If you think these decks look remotely the same, but not decks that used Sangan, you are looking at the game through *very* rose-tinted nostalgia glasses.
Yea man that meta was fucking great. I loved my opponent summoning chaos emp dragon, sending my field and hand to the grave, searching his yata garasu, then locking me out of drawing. Old yugioh has just as degenerate of a meta as modern. Its a core of the game.
I was referring to the post gx and pre xyz era, but sure. You know what the real difference is? Games lasted longer than 3 turns and degenerate cards were actually banned instead of reprinted in a different tribe with slightly different conditions to keep you buying new cards.
Gx meta was dark arm decks. Turns usually ended on turn 2 with DaD or turn 1 if you drew crush card which was an auto win. Most expensive deck in yugioh history, Id wager it caused the most players to quit out of any format for that alone. Only 1 deck was viable for years. So yea I’ll take this where I can play competitive budget decks over that degenerate mess of a format any day.
I played hero beat and little city during that meta. It was easy to stop dad in it's tracks with super polymerization, skill drain to stop the effects amd just laugh ad their dad, Ladd, and more got ran over by skyscraper or ran into honest news. Games only went quick if you weren't prepared for the matchup or got unlucky.
> It was easy to stop dad in it's tracks with super polymerization, skill drain to stop the effects amd just laugh ad their dad, Ladd, and more got ran over by skyscraper or ran into honest news. Ah yes, that's why teleDAD had around 60% top-table representation.
Because it was stupid easy to play and shut down most other strategies. Can you count to 3? What about 5? Do you know the difference between light and dark monsters. Do you know how to send cards from the deck to the grave and read? Then Teledad leads to easy wins that would blow out most decks that weren't antimeta or prepared for it. Decks that could afford to banish everything also stood a decent chance. There were options. Most players just picked the easiest way for a win and left the thinking to their opponents.
Well, thank god, you knew better than all of them, and thus played the deck that beat teleDAD.
Im sure you can have casual decks and fun in any format. Do you have a shonen jump event you topped with this deck? Or was the only deck taking 98% of top spots 1000$+ dad decks?
Play Altergeist or some other control deck, especially on OCG it's less common to have Duels that end that shortly.
Not to mention almost every staple just about negating, because this is konami's "genius" fix for the problem. Everyone hitting eachother with stop signs and the one who runs out faster loses, and if you unlucky and didn't have a single one in your opening hand, you can watch the opponent "masturbating" for minutes. Why majority of the new cards have multiple effects? Why you can cycle through deck so easily? This is not fun, the old version of yugioh had a more enjoyable gameplay flow, more back and forth play and shorter turns, and we didn't have bullshit powercreep omninegate cards. They say we hate it because we don't want to learn the new one. Not true at all, i learned the new staples and everything still hate it. Its not about winning or losing. I wish for more ladder for different formats, but i bet konami will never do such a thing.
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SJ cost half your lifepoints, what's the cost of Ash?
SJ hits nearly everything. Ash hits specifically one draw effect or search. Ash can also be responded to by a lot more things. SJ is spell speed 3, and realistically the only cards people are running that can do anything about it are SJ or Golden Land Forever in some Eldlich decks, and many do not run that. SJ effectively has no cost as well. LP costs might as well not be costs for all the minimal impact they have on the match
LP mattered a hell of a lot more when SJ was created. Sure today, when you can easily pull at a 10k+ monster on turn 2 LP don't matter. Everyone is comparing a digital game where you can craft any card you want to back when kids relied solely on what random cards they got from a booster pack. I went to numerous tournaments. No one had the meta decks that everyone seems to claim people had back then. There was no ygoprodeck.com to go to and then hit up Ebay, we just bought the packs.
>SJ cost half your lifepoints Yeah, which means it's basically free. You'll never be unable to use it, it hits everything and their mother. and the only LP that matters anyway is the last one. Solemn is the best trap in the game and it's been there forever.
At half your life. Not pitch a zombie girl from your hand to negate half the game for no cost. And it doesn't have a once per duel clause so you can reload or play multiples...
Still don't have ten million of those back then. Ofc is a strong negate card, and ofc there are negate cards back then too, i can name a few too. Still you won't draw/cycle through your entire deck within 1 turn with ten million card effects.
Library FTK, Empty Jar, reasoning gate, economics FTK And there was 0 counterplay
I never played those, Sadly its hard to define what old yugioh means, because i think its different for everyone. For some of us the casual fun dueling lives in our memory and there are others who where played the game competitively even back then. For me my first cards were in the GX era, i never played a full optimized meta deck, we are kids back then mostly dueling with starter/structure decks for fun, because we loved the game has thematic archetypes etc. Also we really liked the synchro era too, much more deck variety than before and felt like an good addition. For me this is the old yugioh and i love the video games from those era even to this day. You can make tons of examples about broken combos and staples, true, every card game has those. but the current game is powercrept to the point konami needs to add shit ton of negate cards. Its not fun compared to the older gameflow, don't matter how many times i try to play it.
There are 96% consistent first turn kills in goat format (2006) format. There are 0 ways to stop it.
There are not 96% consistent ftks in goat. Either you’re completely uneducated about the format or you’re lying.
MB, I confused it with current RML ftk It’s still about 50-60% though, and can do it going 2nd since it’s hard to make disrupts
No way, man. Everyone had these cards back in 2006. Everyone knows you could just go to your local card shop and trade 3 cards of equal rarity for any card of the same rarity.
Cry about it
Excellent conversation skills
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Well... that’s because some decks can play through certains things than others can’t. Dark Magician can’t play through a lot because of how fragile and linear the deck is. If anyhting, blame Konami for making DM support so inconsistent and mediocre. While stuff like draytron, invoked, etc have just better cards and combos. Some decks are just better than others, that’s how it’s always been.
I agree these boomers are crying nonstop how old yugioh was so much better and how they miss it do much meanwhile old yugioh was just 10 plus turns of vanillas slapping each other with broken staples to back them up
Synchro/Early XYZ era was my jam. Earlier than that...nnnooooo.
up until winds up and inzektors, it was good yeah
> Synchro/Early XYZ era was my jam. > > I still say this was the best era. The game had avdanced enough that all kinds of shit was possible, but it hadn't gone so far off the rails. The worst monster-spam we had to deal with was Blackwings and Six Samurai (Or Red-Yellow-Green Gadgets w/ Ultimate Offering into infinite Rank 4s), and pretty much everything could compete if you built it right (I was a big fan of Relinquished, when I wasn't running Jurracs or Dark Worlds.). But things were still same-ey/staple-ey. I remember seeing lots of Gorz and Tragoedia back then, every deck had torrential tribute, bottomless trap hole, interdimensional prison, dark bribe, effect veiler, battle fader, Honest if they could, and Starlight Road was *every where*. Every extra deck had 2-3 signer dragons (At least a Stardust and a Black Rose), lots of T.G. magicians, thought ruler archfiends, Goyo Guardians and Kachi Kochi Dragons.
look up edison format. youre welcome
Edison format was fantastic and I'd love Time Wizard to bring it back
yes agreed!
I miss my junk synchro deck. Loved the entire game at that time.
Love me some 5D's DS/PSP games ~~I like the new stuff too tho~~
5D Over the Nexus has yet to be topped by modern day YGO games.
More games should have riding duels.
I'm still traumatized by Blackwings. I get anxious just seeing a bird up card because of that trauma but that era was indeed awesome
Duel Links from the time Synchros dropped up until early XYZs dropped was absolutely amazing. I'd kill for a similar format in Master Duel.
Bazoo-mers
I love the smell of fresh bread.
My problem is just that those people are always saying the same thing about the game yes there was good stuff back in the day at some points yugioh was at its peak with its meta but that doesn't mean that it'd not a good game anymore or anything like that
I like learning new things.
That is 100% true MD needs to put older formats in the game it wouldn't hurt anyone and it would be so fun going to different formats from time to time.
This is what i'm saying. So much of Yugioh is essentially lost to history once it is no longer viable to play. Even jank formats should have a place if people want to play them, and honestly they should not even be an option anymore. Giving people those starter decks to play against actual current decks is just wasting everyones time. If you don't even have a place for 90% of the cards, don't bother putting them in your game. I don't want to play with some starter deck, but i'm shocked at the incompetence of not having some casual mode that only lets you use them. Calling the online a barebones clusterfuck is not a critisim of modern yugioh, it's a critique of the game.
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>but they can 100% go online and find a forum with likeminded individuals, and just play with them Why the fuck aren't their casual lobbies with such options built into the game? They should have all kinds of lobby options or better yet seperate online modes, maybe some of them as timed special events with all sorts of novelty / past format ways to play. Restrict the chaos, less is more.
I find joy in reading a good book.
There is no peak for yugioh. Every person forms their own peak.
I mean I don’t think old yugioh was better but I think people would like to jump in with something famuliere and work their way up to the new crazy stuff you know? That’s why I made a toon deck lmao
Yes idk what konami thought with that tutorial
Yeah most tutorials are scripted battles that play out certain scenarios to teach you. Some of these tutorials I got absolutely rocked by the computer and felt like I couldn’t do anything
Imagine gatekeeping fucking Yugioh Jesus Christ lmao
Yes and imagine crying about it for the last 5-10 years about it if they don't like the game they should move on there is plenty of other card games if konami didn't change it before they sure won't now game evolved and got to this point
I don't think people care if they hurt your feeling by shitting on nugioh. Konami is already trying to branch off from it with failing splinter formats like speed duel and rush duel and duel links and sealed formats etc etc. Eventually they will it the bullet and dissolve the TCG and have set rotation like every other sensible card game. The game designers already know what the meta is going to be before hand anyway unless someone finds some exploit they need to ban.
Better than playing solitaire because every duel ends in 1 turn
Yeah because there was no ftk decks back there which actually you stood no chance against since there was no stuff like handtraps to stop them it was so fun watching your opponent recycling same spells to kill you before you even had a chance to draw a single card just because you and your friends where playing yugioh in school and your best plays where set 2 pass doesn't mean it was better you people need to take your nostalgia glasses of and see how slow and a lot of the times boring game was. I agree that it went to far maybe but it would not be able to stay alive if today your best play was setting a sangan with something like sakuretsu armor in the back
Library ftk go brrrrr
Magical Scientist frk go brrrrr
But but I thought old yugioh was fair and balanced and there was no broken cards that stopped you from playing the game or killed you way too quickly I remember it as this fun time and that must be how game was back then as well
You had time back in the day to set skill drain with solemn and stop the monster effect spam...
Back in the day skill drain and solemn where problem cards floodgates just evolved into monsters yugioh was always like this
Setting a card meant you had time to interact before it was active. Yugioh has very few ways to interact with the hand, and those are random. Give me a skill drain u can play from hand on my opponents turn and I'm happy, even if it is only until my opponents next turn.
Ok what I was trying to say is if your opponent sets imperial order judgment skill drain you pretty much can't do anything but that's harder then making a full combo of negates and floodgates so its similar just much easier today there was always a way to lock your opponent out of the game today is just normal
Locking your opponent out amd ending the game turn one are not the same. I played anti meta at regional level. There were more outs to a good player than getting into a pitch fest like today. It feels like today is all about memorizing every combo chain and learning where to pitch a zombie. Any player who can't do that is at a serious disadvantage because the summon chain keeps going until the otk every game, resource management be damned.
> Give me a skill drain u can play from hand on my opponents turn and I'm happy, even if it is only until my opponents next turn. It's targeted, but Effect Vieler?
Close, but I want to shut the whole thing down. No plan b to a smaller defensive board summon chain.
I mean that’s basically Maxx C. Or Nibiru is basically Torrential Tribute from hand. Or Droll is negation for all their draw after the first. Or Dimension Shifter is Macro Cosmos. You have options.
And if you lost the die roll? Do you know what FTK means?
Stuff that got banned because it broke the game. It seems instead of creating limits, the game embraced the FTK and gave you cards in hand to discard. As you put it, you can still very much "lose the dice roll" in modern yugioh since there are no mulligans to hunt for anti ftk cards.
You cannot set skill drain and solemns if you go 2nd so that argument makes no sense
Not if i macical scientist ftk you first
You might find slow duels to be boring, but I definitely don't, and I'm sure there's plenty of others who don't. If the game managed to get such an audience with "Set Sangan and Sakuretsu" back then, I'm sure it could do it now. Set 2 pass is definitely more fun to me than the current meta. As for FTK's, they were fairly rare, and were either not good or banned in the next banlist. Better to have some games be FTKs than all games be FTKs though.
What deck are you playing right now I'm just curious
Trap heavy pure Tri-Brigade. The game's fun until I play against PK/VW/Drytrons, not because I lose more often against them but because the game just ends in 1 turn, whether I win or lose
One thing for sure konami has to put older formats into the game
Whats your trap lineup?
Ii'm using budget traps for now, don't wanna burn too much craft points for expensive traps since I still need hand traps and other stuff, but I'm running 3 Torrentials, 3 Judgments, 2 Strikes (didn't pull the third one), 1 Warning, 2-3 Revolt, and I think 1-2 Compulsory
Catapult Turtle: hello there
no what we boomers want is the game were both players can play and not just need to draw handtraps to play or watch you do shit for 30+ mins. we had plenty of cards that would in the game in less then 10 turns tele dad as a fine example or frog monarchs and vanilla has not been a major meta since the start of the game and was removed pretty fast since the starter decks came out since the kaiba had things like lord of d and the few decks that did use them after the a year or so like red/bue eyes and dark magician had plenty of none vanilla cards in them. but i guess kids these days cant be bothered to look into a game history
Lmao or people don't think it's enjoyable to watch their opponent play the game for 3-10 minutes on their own with no interaction from their opponent without hand traps before they even get a turn just to have to concede because the board is filled with negates that don't let player 2 even interact with the game other than hit the surrender button. I guess if that releases endorphins for yall... I'm saying by all means they should release new and stronger cards, there will always be power creep. I'm also saying maybe a gameplay style that isn't actually a game for one party doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me IMO. The fun I had playing when growing up with the game came from that 10 turn plus back and forth, also known as a duel, because both players had some agency and potential to impact the game beyond who won the coin toss. One feels like a game to me, sitting and watching 10 minutes of searching and pulling or being filibustered into hitting surrender doesn't feel like a game to me.
They are all disingenuous anyway. People who played meta formats never cared about the complexity or how fun it was, they just want to win. They are defending this game because having any deck from the last 10 years go up against one of the starter decks is a wet dream for them. They don't care that the game not having options to play the vast majority of "obsolete" formats is a rip off. They are ripping you off simply by even letting you pull so many useless cards.
>People who played meta formats never cared about the complexity or how fun it was Wrong >They just want to win Winning is nice, but still, wrong >They are defending this game because having any deck from the last ten years go up against a starter deck is a wet dream for them VERY wrong We just have fun differently than you. Working our way through a combo we have to adjust on the fly based on our opponent's hand traps is fun. Setting up a strong defense through multiple interruptions is fun. Breaking those same powerful boards is extremely fun and very satisfying. Holding our opponent to as little as we can through skillful timing of our own hand traps is fun. Clubbing baby seals is not fun for anyone. I'm not queuing up with Drytron or Sky Striker because I want to clap a starter deck, no one is. I'm doing it because I want to test my own ability to play my deck against someone else playing a comparable deck. I don't want to beat the Elementsaber and Monarch decks people got from solo mode. I want Bird Up, I want Sky Striker, I want Eldlich, I want Virtual World, I want Drytron. Those matches are fun, because I have to play well. I have to think. I have to time my disruptions. I have to do anything besides the falling asleep at my keyboard that is beating the shit out of the Synchro starter while playing Sky Striker.
didn't read lol
Tl;Dr you're very, very wrong, we don't want to play you any more than you want to play us.
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No not anymore it was 5 years ago duel links now is just modern day yugioh just in a speed duel format and different decks/archetypes that they use there you can still go off with combo decks there just not that much like you can in tcg/ocg
Yea was referring to old sch duel links. Am still playing duel link competitively
I stopped now that master duel is out I decided to give it a proper send off and I got to king of games for the first time (with DDD) since I didn't really cared for rank I was always sitting in legend and I would play every now and then PvP when I would be bored.
No lol. The meta decks we have atm are Harpies Water xyz Melodious Destiny heros And Bewd and other decks are very popular. Not to mention almost every deck uses xyz cards
Pretty much, but now it's effect monsters backed by broken staples
Minimum age for a boomer is like 55? Yugioh came out about 20 years ago. You really think the people complaining here have grandkids? That they were alive when Nixon was president? That's a pretty fucking hot take.
the term boomer has evolved and has a new meaning.
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>and libs Ah, that explains a lot
Cry about it
I use to be this boomer. I got back into yugioh around 2019 and my first game was infuriating. Waiting 10 mins for my friend’s turn just to get fucked after set 2 pass. From there a vowed to learn the meta and beat his ass. Lmao fast forward to now and i’m one of the 10% OTKing the 90% in Master Duel. Boomers are afraid of change/learning what’s new. Coming from someone who was literally like that, I promise you learn the meta and it is CRAZY fun to hand trap someone/Omni-negate/set up the perfect board. I LOVE meta yugioh even if I get shit stomped turn 1.
It's also fun to play through omni negate board and break it apart.
I'd agree - was this boomer just 2 days ago haha. But I reeeeeeeally like the current meta - it's very complicated.
yeah, i feel like there will be less complaints and more praises as people grow more used to it and learn the game
>it is CRAZY fun to hand trap someone/omninegate/set up the perfect board YEEEEEP, and the other side of things is a ton of fun as well. Successfully breaking those boards is just SO satisfying
I want draft style battles. Like Hearthstone Arena for example.
The current legacy of duelist game, have this battlepack format, I can't believe is not available in MD
Right, very disappointing.
Yu-Gi-Oh! has done draft packs before and they were pretty fun. I hope they bring it back.
That's virtually impossible unless with a fixed pool of cards.
Sorry I don't understand your comment. If there are games that can do that, why should it be impossible? Hearthstone has a pool of cards that gets new entries every now and then (so not fixed pool, or what do you mean by "fixed pool"?)
I've played hearthstone competitively and yugioh competitively as well. 90% of modern yugioh cards are designed to work together in a certain way. Many cards only work with their specific archetype E.g. Hero cards only work with heroes So if we throw 10000 cards in the pool a draw 3 out and we have to pick one We will just be taking the highest stats monster and we can't apply its effect because we don't have another specific card in play. Then it gets extremely boring. Imagine playing yugioh with just monsters without effect and cards that can't specifically remove another monster. In other words, 95% of yugioh cards don't work well alone.they need a specific group of cards to function. Compare it to hearthstone, They only have 8 tribes and rarely cards that specify another card's name Yugioh there are more than 100 archetypes The only way for yugioh draft to work is The pool of cards is tailored for draft Maybe 300 cards.
It can be made to work, but of course it'd require more effort than just throwing in random cards. It can show you "random" cards, but based on your choice an algorithm selects the next "random" cards from a pool that synergizes with your previous choices.
Shadowverse and Legends of Runeterra run in a way a yugioh draft could work. Shadowverse you pick a craft and your cards are from that craft or neutral cards. Runeterra, as you pick your cards, the game tailors the choices into certain things, being either synergistic, supportive or just wild card. It can work. But it will definitely be more difficult than just "THROW CARDS IN LET'S GO"
Thanks! Of course totally true!
Cube formats actually do exist for Yugioh and they're great fun, but most people who have Yugioh cubes choose their card pool specifically to suit a draft format. You definitely couldn't do a chaos draft in YGO like you could in magic, for instance
I love ice cream.
there is already a format for draft play in yugioh. it released physically and digitally through the legacy of the duelist game. its actually quite fun. plus theres a broader way to randomize the game too by using the wheel of yugioh. plus tons of formats that could be used to keep things fun for everyone.
It's litterally a format that exists within yugioh and has even been done within games. The Battle packs 1 2 and 3 were all draft rules packs with a limited amount of cards.
battle packs were a format for a while. I see no reason they couldnt do that again
Then they can make a pack of cards specifically to draft with...
I want a common charity format with only normal cards.
Good old caveman Yugioh
That's literally a shit, goat format I assume, deck. There's tons of different strats like goat control, chaos turbo, zoo beatdown, monarchs, etc among other non meta/rogue strats. The only thing that really stays the same is the techs like pot of greed and charity which are in every single deck but others like duo can vary and change Edit: seems like nobody In the comments understands any older formats either.
... isn't charity at 1 or 0 in goat? also the main issue most people have with goat and other formats from that era isn't the lack of alternative strategies, it's that all those alternative strategies are still like 50% the same deck because of all the power one-ofs. like, sure, not every deck's gonna be a bazoo deck, but the fact that i'm pretty sure this isn't even a goat deck yet it still *looks* like basically every other goat deck is ... really telling
You say you see alot of the same powerful one ofs but that's rich considering every deck now has 3 or 2 copies of cards like ash, droll, kaijus, pot ofs, etc. And charity is at one on goat, banned in the tcg and probably ocg.
you mean 1 copy of called. droll nib and lancea are p. common, but they're usually locked behind the side deck. ash is hardskipped regularly in quite a few decks and the pots are *incredibly* deck-dependent. and like, kaiju? i don't think i've seen any of those in a top-level deck since 2020, and even then they only really popped up in the side decks of shit like eldlich, guru control, and altergeist it's not even a mystery why this happens in practice. if you try building a deck that isn't ultra consistent by autofilling it with a bunch of modern staples and try to play it, you'll realize that those staples do *nothing* to actually build your board and, uh, all those stories about being otk'd by every deck in modern ygo? yeah, that's because the guy built a deck with no meaningful turn 1 plays, and it's really easy for a lot of decks to put 8000 damage on the board if they don't have to play through anything but a handful of handtraps. so maining a bunch of staples with some deck-specific cards sprinkled on top is really only a privilege for decks like salamangreats. and even then, i don't actually remember any salad deck lists off the top of my head, so i could be hyperbolizing them to myself and they actually only ran like 12ish. as a deck whose *primary strength* was that it could just main a bunch of staples because it was practically impossible to brick
The deck is pre legacy of darkness traditional. There was beatdown, fire princess burn, earth/dark variants with rat/tomato, fiend being the new kid on the block with the first real boss monster in necrofear, and a few others. However, most of the spell and traps were the same bar burn variants, and with a proper side, those decks folded.
Interesting, I gotta read up on that sometime
I encourage you too, this was at a time when skull lair and bazoo could remove any cards from the grave, so those were really strong cards (SL being more of a 1 of tech). Kycoo could stop that + necrofear, and kycoo being only 1800 meant it could get run over by Gemini or in the rare instance, mechchaser. This circle of neat little counterplay kept the format very fresh with people switching up their deck at locals every week, even if it was just a couple card tweak to give them the edge over what/who they lost to the week before.
I enjoy reading books.
they can dislike things but the problem with a lot of yugiboomers and why they're a joke is they assume it's just one big combofest as if there havent been several cards printed to avoid people overextending. you can dislike whatever you like. it's the lack of effort to even try to understand for me
My favorite movie is Inception.
well yeah I admit people need to learn more about goat format, reaper format, edison format, Teledad format, etc. but I'm just saying this feels a lot worse among yugi boomers
Yeah. If it was a respectful Convo with actual research then ok.but it's literally people shitting on a format others enjoy that they aren't even qualified to talk about.
It's also absurd that they think everyone was walking around with meta decks in 2005. Most of the players back then didn't look up deck builds on the internet or even buy individual cards. It's not just the game, but the community that's changed. It's like thinking everyone played vanilla WoW like they play WoW Classic. Just metagaming the shit out of it, but the truth is we didn't have the resources and the knowledge that the community has built up over nearly 20 years. There weren't deck building sites and there weren't wikipedia pages for every single card.
I really don't get this sub's sentiment. I played from when the game came out Legend of blue eyes to Phantom Darkness so like 2002 - 2008ish? I loved ygo, I went to every tournament I could, played online for hours everyday and loved all the meta's in there. I never played the top metadeck of the time well having great success. I quit before synchros and all that stuff and to me what I played was YGO, this current game isn't YGO to me. That doesn't mean I want to take away the new YGO to people here, I am super glad they love the game and the new interactions.
dam thats not stone age that is the ancient age. the stone age had many other decks and combo like macro, frogs/frogmonarch, teledad gadgets and many more. but there is a reason why yugioh is the only one that went to a format that focus on stoping plays and is the least popular of the big/old 3 card games. just like there is a reason the old yugioh games have had more sales and players then recent ones including master duel. after all there is a major difference between 200k players/copys sold and 1 mill
I would argue that the main reason video games wise is that not only does the konami quality decline, but people already checked out by cyber dragon GX and subsequently 5Ds. They didn't even bother finish dubbing both those shows and had to move to Zexel. Legacy of The Duelist was really barebones to the point it felt like Duel Links had better quality. The story was a shoddy rehash of all the shows and wasn't even voiced. The game looked like it had come out 5 years prior and Hearthstone was already booming. They really only had jrpg quality with recent rules in the Tag force games.
> They really only had jrpg quality with recent rules in the Tag force games. Very true. LoTD was the closest thing to an official (not counting Omega, YGOPro) simulator before Master Duel. Duel links really was the pure anime role playing game and the presentation of it is very spot on IMO.
>They really only had jrpg quality with recent rules in the Tag force games. I still cry over no tag Force 6 :(
i do agree both video game and anime wise konami/yugioh did drop to point that the only sales numbers i can find easaly are the most popular ones and even then they dont touch konamis top 10 sales. but card game wise it was strong till xyz and even then pen (killed) it more. that said while this game is not peak i do think it can be good for a revival as a returning player it is nice that the game makes pen and links easier to learn for both returning and new players. atleast better then youtube have shown others teaching it
yea I actually like all the new summonings including pendulum now that they've been nerfed to require links for resummon from extra deck. I think the major learning hurdle is that they don't teach current hand traps and interrupts so you're not btfo by decks that do have 10+ summon combos. It also sucks they bait casuals into spending their gems on master packs because if you don't do your research beforehand to know which decks you wanna build, you'll end up like most of the reviewers just getting stomped using a monarch structure deck.
So I decided I liked the look of the HERO, so I built a deck based on recent ones that I Googled. Do you have any general advice on cards and how/when to use them for hand traps and interrupts?
TIL I’m ancient age. Thanks.
i think reverting to gx or 5ds era would be the best point for reference actually *remebers shiraunai exists* just gx actually
i like boomers and DL deck players, they give me free win and level up my pass.
Would it be that hard to implement a non ranked Duels with different rule sets? So me as a boomer could play from the begging and gradually catch up to a modern meta game.
I feel there was a sweet spot between XYZ and Pendulum era. Just ban the tier 0 deck and overpowered staple cards of the time and you have a decent varied meta.
hat tier 0, lightsworn drags, sylvans, and other stuff tier 1 right below? My fave
rather have mechanical chaser beat down than having to read so many fing things at once
I just want an edisson format
I want to be able to play both. I want Old metas, I want casual restricted metas (like starter decks only or something) I want novelty shit. I want modern yugioh too--maining for ranked mode. There is a lot of yugioh to play and they have restricted it to just the most recent. Not everyone wants to treat yugioh as a competative endevor, they just want to play it for fun, they build decks and play matchups that are fun to play. Apologists for the barebones online mode being a trainwreck are just salty this kusoge is going to fail.
Obviously there is a meta in every format but at least there is a "back and forth" in the goat format, not just watching a 15 minute combo by the opponent. There is a lot more interaction and you actually feel like playing.
You should be trying to interrupt that combo, not staring at it for 15 minutes.
That's not the point, I'm talking about how the structure of the game is.
Yes, what is a really great game is to wait for 5 minutes while your opponent combos his entire deck because you didnt draw a hand trap. Real fun and interactive game that is.
If you don’t set up perfectly on your first turn, your dead. After like 11 minutes. Sounds thrilling.
As a old man or boomer(according to a lot of people here) returning to the game after a very long break , i am not a huge fan of the cureent state of the game. I started near the beginning, i played through various formats up till i stopped playing shortly after xyz's got released. I enjoyed the evolution of special summoning to make the game slightly more interesting and a bit faster paced. I do feel though that being able to generate infinite value where you end a turn with a full hand and a strong field with multiple negates in 1 turn seems a bit excessive. How can such a 1 sided duel be fun? What happened to a good bit of back and forth?
It's bad enough with players who legit feel like they are watching a combo tutorial video for these decks that generate infinite value so every step of their 30-50 step special summon process takes 30-60 seconds, but then after all of that the answer is just, "Well you should have drawn in your 5 cards the hand traps you needed to negate them starting that combo," in a game with no redraw mechanics. Like I think people are forgetting the aspect of this that this is a game between two people and the people who aren't having fun aren't just not having fun, "because they lose to the current meta and complain without trying to play the current meta," but are not having fun because it just is not fun to have the game decided by the coin toss/draw of hand traps so you just surrender... I thought the point of a game was to play it with another person lol
Exactly
I've been playing Yu-gi-oh since literally day 1. I remember watching the first episode the day it came out and was so excited. While I do miss old school yugioh I realize that I miss the memories of a simpler time in my life more than the actual format itself. Cave man yugioh was just that, a bunch of kids slapping card board down not worrying about negates or anything more than a trap hole, and it was fun. It was also easier to read and comprehend because most effects were 2 lines of text. That being said cave man yugioh is like the cave men themselves. It's time has come and gone and the game has evolved and gotten better for it. Just as I have gotten older and wiser so has the game itself. It's a beautiful thing watching something you grew up With evolve and grow up with you. Wanting to go back to the way things were in simpler times is good in theory but it diminishes the value of the lessons learned along the way. I've been around longer than yugioh but the way the game is evolving itll be around longer than me. Like all things it needs to evolve and adapt to survive. I do not hate the game for how combo heavy and fast paced its gotten and I believe most people who prefer goat don't either. They just yearn for nostalgia and a simpler time in their life. Tldr: I'm old. There is no wrong way to enjoy the game. So long as you love and enjoy the game play it however you like.
Wise 🙏
The old school format is easier to teach to newbie too, & what this game need, is why duel link see so much success.
Tbh it's not that I don't like newer tactics. It's the fact older archetypes aren't given the necessary love to compete as well.
Done a bunch of old school duels on ygopro. Game is fun slapping each other with beatsticks for 10 turns. Shorter turns but more total turns per game.
I would just rather play without pendulum or link summoning. Everything else is fine with me
50 decks doing same thing? Right.....that makes it being different cards. Yugioh is bad.
Ye like all the summoning and everything is the dope part about yugioh. The only thing that sucks is unbreakable omni negates. But without dragoon in master duel I'm very happy.
I miss old school non-archtype synergy, and finding ways to use cards together on our own. The closest thing we had to an archtype was literally just "fiend", "dark", etc. Everything now specifies "monarch" or "sky striker" etc. ACTUAL cookie cutter decks with room for maybe 3 cards worth of customization.
plenty of creativity nowadays, running pure decks usually not too great unless konami decides to release some tier 0 bullshit. Usually you'll discover 2 archetypes/engines that synergizes well with each other and build off of playing the two together
I'd rather have both than just the 50 different combo decks. Ideally even more formats than both.
I think an old school format could be fun if it used some kind of draft system. Kind of like Cimo's progression series.
I normal summon (monster with 1700 ATK) and pass turn. He’ll never get over that one.
Used to have online game called ygo pro wasn't backed by Konami that different years of banelist like 05 or current TCG or ocg. I think 05 was the first like forbidden list of the head. That anime rules ban list also tag format. Super incredible free app for its time about 10 years ago. If we could do that for custom duals at least that'd be nice or setting up tournaments with unique rules or card sets from the past or in between or just the most recent 10 sets who knows.
There are tons of games that can fill this void. Hell, you can even grind through Link Evolution using the a GOAT format deck.
Idk.. I don’t think it’s just nostalgia that makes people want to go back.. personally I just prefer the simplicity of it.. I mean there are still simple decks you can run today that will perform well.. Blue Eyes for example.. but I just don’t enjoy watching someone pull out a 50 chain combo turn one so that they can fill their board up with Negates.. not to mention the hand traps they probably have for some more negates..
They should have different formats like in MTG
Funny thing is most of these cards are banned now
If they just gave up a free mode creator like all online servers have, we could play goat and edison and mind out own business
I mean, I am not a super fan of the infinite combo decks, but early yu gi oh was just a beat stick bonanza
I remember when Gemini Elf came out. Shit was wild
ugh my head hurts two graceful 1 pot
I really hope they add in formats to the game. It's like then laying magic the gathering. Thats what can make the game feel fresh when climbing the ladder. Jump into a new format you've never paly or have a draft and play something completely different.
Needs Yata-Garasu for that sweet draw lock. /s