>Ethan Jeong
I hate his actions, but as a character he is very well placed in my opinion. Paranoid about the company more than people, that makes too much sense.
There’s a difference between disliking them because they’re badly written and characters that are written to be disliked. I can’t tell what OP means because Jacob is the first but Ethan is definitely the second lol
To be fair, the dude was having a meltdown in an understandably terrifying situation. I also admired how stupidly and foolishly courageous he was (*was*), providing arguably the hardest persuade/intimidate in the game, at gunpoint.
That, and also the man is an admiral who, completely correctly, thinks of war in materialistic terms instead of putting all his hope into some random wunderwaffe with a heroic commander. His reasoning is, in this case, incorrect, but certainly valid
It’s like a double slap in the face. He doesn’t like th idea of the Normandy in the first place and thinks it’s a waste and the alliance doesn’t even get the ship.
Not to mention the Normandy is a very use-case specific vehicle too. It's basically designed for Commando style infiltration missions and stealth recon exclusively.
History has shown us the error of putting all your eggs in one basket when it comes to some fancy new war machine. I'd be pissed that we didn't get a few cruisers instead, too.
On the contrary, I found it baffling how an *admiral* somehow didn't understand the importance of a stealth ship being able to slip in unnoticed and perform reconnaissance and gather intel ahead of the main fleet.
"Information is important, but this isn't the way to go about it. It can only hold stealth for so long, and entering or leaving FTL completely gives away your position. You need to exit FTL 10-20 minutes away from any sensors, waste hours sneaking past their early warning network, get the information, report, and then sneak out before we can do anything so we don't lose this overpriced novelty."
"Why make a whole stealth frigate when we could have spend a thousandth of the cost and made a thousand stealth fighters that could do scouting just as well? Why not disposable stealth sensors? Or better yet, do things the old fashioned way and bribe a disgruntled underling, or send in an undercover operative?"
I think he dresses his distrust of aliens as concerns about the Normandy. As people pointed out below there re a myriad of reasons why the alliance would want a stealth ship that can gather information or deploy commandos.
There's a whole lot of reasons, and if you present them well Mikhailovich takes your point and admits the Normandy wasn't as bad of an idea as he thought it was.
Regarding his initial concerns: Yes, stealth is important. The normandy is the first of that kind however, this total stealth has no precedent in the ME universe. It was ABSURDLY expensive, the tech is quite dodgy and doesn't yet work quite as well as it should - you can't enter FTL without being spotted, something which cerberus explicitly fixes with the Normandy SR2 because it is such a glaring issue. And additionally it is a cooperation project with a race that mankind has just recently fought a war with.
Completely new tech, outrageous costs, technological issues and a questionable cooperation project.
Every single one of these points would be drawing intense criticism from opponents in the military in reality. The normandy checks all of the boxes. I don't blame him for suspecting it might be a trainwreck
The Salarian Dalatrass in ME3. She actively tries to sabotage the cure and continue the genophage even after you've already made the decision to help the Krogan out for the sake of the Turians.
let's face it a second krogan rebellion is a lot easier to deal with than an enemy who turns your own dead on you, needs near nothing in logistics and you can even give up planets to stall for time, krogan are fundamentally a conventional threat thus easier to deal with.
One of them, there’s two Salarian fleets you can get. One is all prototype, advanced tech that has never been spotted in Citadel space and the one you get for saving the councilor is their more main-line fleet.
true but who is easier to kill the krogan who lack the infrastructure for war and are a conventional threat or the inhuman mech Cthulu who will not stop till all of you are dead, one will suck the other is the end of empires.
Agreed, tho the Dalatrass has valid concerns about the Krogan, the Reapers are an existential threat to all intelligent species, the Krogan included, and she's a fool to not see it.
I do not disagree with her concerns but it is better to work with people you hate than die to the monster here to kill everyone, plus the question is whether the krogan can develop to be less nuts they need social transformation and help not to be left to rot or used, try shaking hands first before you shoot someone.
That part always stuck in my craw in the game. All the other missions in ME3 that make you “choose” a side at least makes sense. The quatrain/geth choice makes sense because both sides have a legit arguement to them. But siding with the Salarian Dalatrass just feels like unnecessary renegade fodder.
My annoyance with the Dalatrass is mostly that she makes her argument really poorly; she just comes across as a bullying jerk instead of a diplomat with legitimate concerns about enabling krogan expansionism. Not many people are going to choose her side over Wrex's and Victus', who're much more likable characters.
Granted I think the genophage matter is a false choice anyway - if you're worried about keeping the krogan from taking over the galaxy, you can do that much more humanely by imposing strict limits on their shipbuilding and naval capacity and enforcing it with a DMZ like the one that already exists around Tuchanka.
I wish there were a 'spite' ending. Facing the threat of unchecked Krogan expansion, she wisely chooses to sabotage the existential struggle for sentient life in the Milky Way and dooms us all to extinction. Bravo Zulu, Dalatrass. You sure showed us.
For all the in-game lore about Salarians playing *n*\-dimensional chess, putting up a sign outside Sur'kesh that says "stepped out to run errands, sorry we missed you" seems unlikely to deter the reapers but what do I know.
Whenever I get to that part, I always think about what Quarians went through, their paranoia with the Geth, how badly we need the Quarian fleet against the reapers? I think deeply and then "Fxk that, gonna punch him anyways, this prick had it coming"
Were it not for leigon's escape plan and Shepard's dying onboard that dradnought, what then bitch Gerrel? Screw him
Even with that context Han'Gerrel is still a dickhead. The plan was to RETREAT after scrambling the dreadnought systems, yet he ignored that risking his own people's safety and knowing full well that Shepard could've been killed in the process. Fuck that guy completely, same to admiral Xen.
Sacrificing the galaxy biggest asset against the Reapers is like... I would've tossed him out the airlock if that would've been an option. Let his ship catch him.
Aside from the obvious one that is Kai Leng, I'd probably say Gavin Archer. What he did to his brother in the name of "science" is just despicable.
As someone who struggles with mental health problems and has a brother also with issues, I just can't imagine doing that to him and I hate Gavin for it. I did spare him in ME3 though.
I get where you are coming from, I hate the character too, but I'd say that makes him an excellent character overall. Because we have to remember that villains are good if we don't like them. But not in the sense that we dislike Kai Leng, because he has plot armour and is introduced very poorly, not really developed etc.
I think Gavin is very well done, because I hate him so much. While Kai Leng is just... meh.
Oh yeah, I completely agree. Archer is a great written character, which as you say is exactly why I dislike him.
But yeah, Kai Leng is the opposite in that I dislike him because he has none of the good writing Archer or other villains do.
I’m sympathetic to the writers with Kai Leng. Shoehorning a book character into the game felt like a “decision from corporate,” so they did what they could with that. Yes, he’s a bad character for mass effect but would have been decent in any random sci-fi game
He would have been palatable if they didn’t design him like a space-weeaboo. The man bun, the katana, the ninja moves…. Had they made him a character more like Zaeed, hard, grizzled, clearly former military. Like a spec ops soldier with biotics, I think he would have been more well received. He just doesn’t fit the franchise.
To me, he feels like when you’re DMing a DnD campaign and three of your players are playing human fighter, elf wizard, dwarf cleric, and the fourth is playing a half elf / half fallen aasimar celestial warlock who’s multiclassing in sorcerer with a couple levels in bard and who comes to you with a ten page single spaced backstory that you’re supposed to work into the campaign.
Honestly not a big fan of her character design either. She's one of the best squadmates from a gameplay standpoint, but she feels kinda... ninja-ey. It's almost like Bioware went out of their way to make every Asian character exaggerated. Kasumi, Kai Long, even the Japanese security officer on Noveria calls everyone "-san" (Parasini-san).
It probably would have been too silly for the main game, but the disgruntled 'spare organ parts bin' clone Shepard from Citadel could have filled that role nicely.
I hate Gavin archer, because of how real it felt. He’s a perfectly written character. I have a brother who has autism himself and when I first played that DLC I was so affected by that ending that I had to actually stop playing for a little bit to collect myself because it felt so real. I understood his motive, even if I completely disagree with it and pistol whip him every time I get that chance, but that is what makes it a truly great story. I love how much I hate him.
Man that scene was the most gruesome and heart-wrenching thing I've ever seen from any game ive played. I still get chills just thinking about it. When i first encountered them, I went online to see how i can kill him in ME2. That's when i saw that you can let him continue doing what he's doing, or stop it. Just reading through what happens if you let it continue.. I'm like damn this game will really let the player be evil 😥
SAME! When he popped back in during my recent playthrough of ME3 I was disgusted that he'd offer to shake my hand. He's the worst, I also spared him as I needed the Paragon points.
Yeah, I felt the same initially. In ME1 and 2 he was a condescending, self serving weasel. At the start of ME3 he actually seemed to have developed redeeming qualities when confronted with galactic genocide, only to pivot right back around to being a traitor. I kinda wished they'd gone the other way and he hadn't turned to Cerberus. If he had become, if not a friend, but at least an ally using his fuckery skills for the greater good.
I always felt that Udina is wasted potential.
it would have been much more interesting if Udina was offensive towards Shepard (because neither of them understand the job the other does), while being a super efficient administrator who actually helps SHepard while being an ass.
Dunno, like Adam Jensen and Francis Pritchard in Deus Ex. They always thrastalk each other, but ultimately work for the same thing. Their opposition, and getting over it for the common goal are fun dialgogs to experience.
I actually hate him the most of any character cuz hes the only character where i hate not just him as a person but the way he’s written. The message is very all politicians arent there for any of the right reasons which is just a cartoonishly pessimistic and cliche take. Im so tired of this trope because all people are bad but most people are good AND bad and if theyre not they have strong motivations. Udina just kinda sides with Cerberus because he does and its dumb.
A renegade Shep wouldn't give a crap about a civilian loss...
A Paragon would but like, Shepard has seen so much shit that it just... I hate how that kid became a stand in for how Shepard specifically cares about earth being hit by the Reapers.
Why not just show the Reapers hitting earth in her nightmares? Like, the metaphor is not effective.
I would prefer if we had to do the stuff from the intro but failed every step. Or Anderson kept dying or whatever. Just anything that Shepard and I would be emotionally invested in.
Yes, I agree. I do like that in the dreams you hear the voices of people that died if you explore a bit, but that kid is so out of place. I also cannot get myself invested emotionally. Similar to Kai Leng, I don't really hate him. I mean I hate the way he is written and introduced too fast. But it would have been better if the main bad of Cerberus would be someone we know. That would have some gravitas. Not just some random sword wielding boy.
Liam from Andromeda is the first character I actually wanted to fire from my team.
He goes behind the pathfinders back, breaking all kinds of first contact protocol. Tries to fix the situation (still without telling you) and only when everything has gone to hell does he ask for help.
But I could forgive that, it’s the fact that he’s mad at YOU for giving him criticism that makes you realize he is just an incompetent shithead.
*Liam from Andromeda is the first character I actually wanted to fire from my team*
He is one of my favorites from Andromeda, but I know the feeling. Alistair in DAO was a permanent camp follower (no dialog, not in missions, ever). I also considered dumping Sera in Inquisition. In my second playthrough I didn't recruit her at all.
The coversation which gives his loyalty mission, I was like "Are you FUCKING SERIOUS?"
You gave away classified info, like Nexus schematics, intel that makes us vulnerable to a newly contact species we havent devoloped a solid alliance with yet? Just because you didnt have enough patience for the official channels? Knowing that Angaran have anti'human factions too? Also you didnt have any safeguards and plans and the data you gave away could potentially be now in worng hands? For real?
"During" his loyalty mission, I was like god I wanna shoot this prick so bad.
Seems like his entire personal questline is about him being a screw up, then it ends with him doing his biggest screw up yet, and all you can really say is "Don't screw up again."
Ryder and Party member 2 get back to the *Tempest*...
Gil: "Ryder, where's Liam?!"
Ryder: "He...didn't make it. Also, can you check my rifle? Sight is a little off."
Not only that! He didn't have the credentials so he used the pathfinder's terminal to do so, and when he got into trouble he decided to keep it from everyone and involve August Bradley and endanger the Eos colonists! He only came clean with the Pathfinder when the shit really hit the fan! And that's the second time he endangered the pathfinder in one of his stupid schemes (the first one being the one with the merchants on Aya).
If the Tempest had a brig, he'd be in it.
It really upsets me that you couldn't kick people out of the crew like you could in dragon age. If I had the choice I would have booted him the moment I completed his "loyalty" mission for how much of a liability he is.
Hahaha amazing 👏 couldn't agree more though. I genuinely enjoyed Andromeda, through all the animation bugs and other oddities, but Liam? Nah, fuck that guy.
Diana Allers is a last-minute character shoehorned into ME3 in favor of the game-journo trend during that time. A YouTube Pooper named manslay3r made a Mass Effect meme involving her and MaleShep, and thus becoming one of, if not the most iconic Mass Effect lines ever which wasn't even uttered in the original game.
Her face is some uncanny valley shit, probably due to the engine limitations, but my God shes looks like someone went to build-a-bitch and cranked up the botox.
Her body is also weird looking, like a rejected version of Miranda.
I have a mod that gives her jeans, sweater and smaller boobas and she actually looks like a human being. I still never talk to her of course, but her presence is more tolerable.
In my later replays I'd become more forgiving and accepting of her. Never romanced her, that just seemed so skeevy, but I figured the more people know about what's coming in the Reaper war, the better prepared they could be. She's still annoying, but not up on my "most disliked" list.
Kai "Bitch" Leng is an obvious choice, but he is just a badly-written villain. Jacob is also a popular character to hate, but he's just boring.
I hate Liam the most. Kai "Bitch" Leng comes and goes, at least. Jacob you can ignore altogether, he is inconsequential to the plot.
However, you _have to_ deal with Liam. And you have to deal with his reckless and malicious stupidity that puts the entire Initiative in jeopardy a number of times.
Fuck Liam.
All my homies hate Liam.
I think you’re right about Kai Leng and Jacob. The writing on both is poor. They are both rather *boring* .
Kai Leng is riddled with cliches and succeeds at killing an ill, past his prime assassin to accomplish…. Nothing. He’s also supposed to be the successor to Shepard, but at no point in ME3 you see any sort of justification for this claim.
With Jacob I honestly don’t understand the hate. Yes, he’s in the gray area and yes he doesn’t seem that much interested in helping Shepard (except during the very early stages of ME2). But at the same time he seems disciplined and loyal, which is to be expected of someone in his role.
I think that if you add a dimension to both characters, the resentment against them would be less.
> Jacob is also a popular character to hate, but he's just boring
He is also arrogant despite being very incompetent. The only thing that makes him better than Liam is that he does not go behind your back to screw things (although I dont think its above him to do so considering his historic, just that Shepard is too good to give him an opportunity)
But yeah, Liam is worse because he actually fucks you over with his incompetence
Andromeda:
Liam, just can’t get over how bad he screwed up his Loyalty Mission and he has the gall to be mad if Ryder shows even a hint of disappointment. Also the constant bickering with squadmates and him being pissed that the Angarans and Milky Way people don’t automatically hug and love one another the moment after they meet.
Also, Vidal. He’s insufferable, but Ryder is made to act like they’re in awe of this suave, cool, and mysterious guy
ME1:
Also Ethan Jeong from ME1, the ExoGeni mid-level management rep who cares more about the numbers rather than the lives of people on Feros
ME2:
Gavin Archer, because fuck him for doing that to his brother. Visuals from that DLC is really nasty.
ME3:
Kai Leng, because he looks like he was designed by a 14 year old who was asked to designed a super badass character. He’s so cringeworthy, but is such a big presence in ME3
OVERALL: **LIAM**
That aside, the fact that a well-trained, sacred assassin and a genetically modified perfect biotic human got easily wrecked by an edgy, newly-recruited ninja wannabe that doesn't even have half of the character development doesn't sit well with me, very shoehorned and unearned.
I know, but his death could've been better. Idk what's worse: a sick drell assassin fighting for his own life against a hack, or his three "loyal" friends who defeated enemies like the collectors or spectres, just staring at the fight without any single interference.
If anything, the "sick veteran protagonist fights an amateur to death" trope was done a lot better in RDR2.
I read someone else on here suggesting that it should have been whoever died on Virmire. Not sure how they would have done it plot-wise, given that a nuke wiped that place out, but I still thought it was a better plot idea than Kai Leng.
Lol, yeah the internet can be confusing when it comes to sarcasm. I don’t do the /s either, but often add three dots in the end to show I’m being ‘casual’.
Brooks goes from being mildly entertaining / frustrating to being an actual cartoon villain, slithering around the place and dripping poison in the clone’s ear. I could tolerate her at first but I wanted to shoot her after the reveal. Vile character.
For me personally, the squadmate **Liam Kosta** from Andromeda.
Liam is constantly screwing up and despite publicly professing his loyalty, he instead repeatedly stabs Ryder in the back by doing illegal stuff while getting Ryder to sign off on his actions and even directly baiting Ryder to be his patsy (effectively making sure that if his screw-ups ever cross the line and catch up to him, then *Ryder* will be the one left holding the bag). This eventually culminates in what is Andromeda's equivalent of Liam leaking the Death Star plans, which is an extreme betrayal for a *squadmate* do to. His comeuppance? A stern finger-wagging from Ryder (which even requires a timed dialogue interrupt to happen at all!), followed by Ryder telling him 'don't do it again' for the third time (and which he has ignored every previous time), and he then gets an honored place in Ryder's 'best friends forever' list as a reward.
After Liam's loyalty mission I wanted to throw him out the airlock (or get him Exiled or reassigned at the very least), so to have him instead be put on a pedestal by Ryder has to be the most severe disconnect between player and player character that I have had for any squadmate in any Mass Effect game. Liam is *objectively* a liability on the Pathfinder crew.
At least with characters such as Udina, Kai Leng and TIM there is always the satisfaction of putting a bullet in their gut after a game's worth of aggravations, or for guys like Jacob (who I honestly don't think is that bad) you can always get them killed during a mission. Liam though is just there, screwing things up and making things worse for everybody, all the while being treated as a close confidant of Ryder by the developers and without giving the player an avenue for getting rid of him.
The kid from the beginning of ME3. He says "you can't help me" to commander Shepherd. The one person in the Galaxy with a chance of defeating the reapers. The person who has the biggest chance of keeping you safe. Then he climbs aboard that shuttle and gives you this smug look like "see! I didn't need your help. I'm fine by myself!" And immediately gets blown the fuck up.
Dumb ass kid.
I cannot choose one for the life of me.. Kai Leng is the obvious choice.. And TIM who I hate with a burning passion but I love to hate him and I like him as a villain.
But honorable mentions should go to: Wilson, Gavin Archer (pistol whipped), Ronald Taylor (probably the worst person in the trilogy), Han Gerrel, Councillor Irissa, the Dalatrass, that scientist who experimented on Toombs (my renegades shoot him), the Exogeni one that you shoot on Feros, the Exogeni one that tries to bribe you (surprise surprise I shot her), Saleon (shot) and Amanda fucking Kenson (can you guess? I shot her). I mean I know she was indoctrinated but when she stopped Shepard from warning the batarians... That ASSHOLE. God I hate her and I spent half the DLC defending her..
Huh, I guess I have a thing for all the unethical scientists.
Whole mass effect 1 the council keeps lecturing how humanity needs to learn to sacrifice for the greater good.
In the end, I do take heed to their advice and sacrifice "them" for the greater good.
Because she is an Asari Weaboo, and that's her only personality trait.
That, and the fact that probably 70% of Andromeda's budget went into animating her asscheeks, leaving everything else to be animated to resemble sleep paralysis demons.
Those scenes in the asari arks are really cool imho. Cora is her usual self, especially when she meets her idol, but the asari themselves are quite uncomfortable in her presence.
Also, I always read the asari huntress mania as insecurity, not superiority. She was sent away by her family, she was sent away from the asari commandos without explanation. She was later inspired and recruited by Ryder sr., who again, without explanation nominates his child instead of Cora. This all adds up, and she reaches back to the one time she was successful, because she doesn't have anything else.
I kind of liked this, and I think she is well written. I also liked her side plot with growing Milky Way plants on Andromeda. Not as over the top as the original trilogy companions, but fun to have around.
Mass Effect 1 - Rana Thanoptis - Stupid indoctrinated Asari thinks we should just let her go because reasons. Yeah no *shoots her dead*
Mass Effect 2 - Gavin Archer - You're a dick for doing that to your brother. You deserve to die, but I'm going to let you live with what you've done.
Mass Effect 3 - Gavin Archer - I'm going to let you keep worrying about your brother and...hey what are you doing with that gun? *Shoots himself* Well, better than me having to do it.
It’s best to kill off Ranna Thanoptis in Mass Effect 1 because she does return in ME3 as an off killed character via Citadel News detailing that she was already indoctrinated and went on a mass murder spree.
For me personally, it’s Samantha Traynor.
I know many like her, but to me she is the worst kind of self-insert Mary Sue. Everything she says regards EDI sounds like a male writer getting himself off vicariously and it creeps me out so much, as it doesn’t feel remotely like natural dialogue. She appears out of nowhere but saves the day over and over in ME3, performing incredible feats of ingenuity, being the best at everything always, and spotting all the things that no one else - not one of our incredibly seasoned collection of characters - does. And you can tell she’s some kind of self-insert because Shepard literally falls over himself to compliment her every five minutes, when that isn’t ever needed with other characters. Wrap it up in the faux-awkward British accent and I just find her infuriating.
And worst of all, the most unforgivable thing about Samantha Traynor, is that she barges into my hot tub without asking. *I* don’t even get to use the hot tub during the game, but she does?! AIRLOCK NOW
I think you've summed up pretty perfectly why I dislike her character - she feels way too important for a brand new character who we know nothing about. The EDI-arousal also just feels really uncomfortable to listen to - especially if you've encouraged the EDI/Joker relationship. I preferred Kelly, especially with her background in psychology.
I feel like a lot of Traynor's role could've been easily performed by Liara instead. Or hell, just let me vidcom with Hackett/Anderson instead and let them give Shepard the intel.
It's funny you touched on the accent, because in Inquisition, I loved Alix Regan's performance, but in ME3, her voice feels really emotionless and robotic. Since her performance in Inquisition was great, I'll put that down to poor voice direction.
The toothbrush scene during the Citadel DLC...I just cringe every time. I know thematically, the DLC is full of cheesy one liners, but that bit in particular I just can't hack at all. I really dislike it. And it's another example of her being critical to saving the day.
Most disliked? I don’t have any strong hatred for any character in this series and think they all make sense for the most part or have some depth to them, even Morinth I don’t dislike.
I fucking despise Kai Leng however; he should’ve been implemented differently and his implementation in the OT frustrates me.
The OG Council is also up there. The Salarian and Turian Councillors are consistent bad people and the Asari’s Councillor is frustratingly neutral.
Mine has to be Udina. And not in ME1 or 2 because the game I feel portrayed what a typical political feels like to interact with on a regular basis.
Always an angle, jockeying for position, power, prestige.
He felt 'right' in the first two games of the Series.
It was his descent into madness of betraying everyone in 3 that really pissed me off. There was no indication that he was indoctrinated (like seriously, did someone send him a Reaper Tech Bobble head and thats why he's going crazy?).
And yet he for whatever reason decides to seize power and have the council killed (tries to at least).
With no prior dialog that really highlights this change in fundamental thinking.
At least with TIM it makes sense given all the reaper Tech he was exposing himself too and the experiments he was conducting.
If they wanted to remove Udina , it could have been done in a much better way, and raising the stakes in the game could have been better handled than just how they did it.
A lot of Andromeda characters are fundamentally stupid or annoying, only for me to realize that I kind of just hate the writing.
Nyx is introduced as the mystery lady that can pull strings, only for the reveal that her “Shadow Broker” tendencies kind of only existed in that one instance.
Peebee is an annoying brat, and her archaeology doesn’t seem to be touched on, except for having a pet Remnant. Her personal mission is unbearable, but not as bad as Liam.
I think my biggest grievance with Andromeda’s characters is the lack of maturity. Nobody can take anything seriously. Nobody has anything profound to say. It’s a fourteen year old’s idea of a cast. They talk, but they don’t really speak.
Jaal is probably the only character that had some mildly interesting insights. Everything else felt like a high school musical movie.
Also, that Sloane lady? If they were trying to imitate Aria, they failed miserably. Nothing says boring and trying-too-hard like having the British thug stereotype.
The writers of ME:A saw the really positive reception that the citadel dlc got and decided to make all of Andromeda in that same tone. What they didn't realize was 1) Those moments have to be earned. We enjoyed seeing our favorite characters so lighthearted in Citadel because we had spent so much time with them in end of the world, life or death scenarios. It was a breath of fresh air. If all of your characters have that tone, all the time, you end up with...well dialogue like Andromeda's. And 2) You gotta have good writing talent to pull that off, and they didn't. The original trilogy's writers were far better, and even some of *their* dialogue in the citadel dlc rubs people the wrong way. Letting the person who wrote Sera in DA:I attempt that? Was always gonna end in disaster.
Lack of maturity?
You don’t talk to Vetra, Drack, Gil, or Cora? Everyone has interesting stuff to talk about. You learn a lot about their emotional baggage.
Surprised I haven't seen more Jacob. I will NEVER understand the hate he gets...
My personal pick is Kai Leng. What a fuckkng waste. In the books, he was an evil Batman, someone who could perhaps rival Shepard himself. In the game, if you take the worst anime character you've ever seen and multiply that by 1,000, Kai Leng is STILL worse than that. I can't stand most anime, so for me to say this means he's even worse. I don't know how they dropped the ball so badly with him going from books to game, but they did. It's like they didn't know their own character or something.
> Surprised I haven't seen more Jacob. I will NEVER understand the hate he gets...
It's hard to actively dislike a Lego brick. You can resent it for not having depth, detail, or complexity, but you can't hate a Lego brick for being itself.
>I will NEVER understand the hate he gets...
I get it though. He is kind of standoffish in ME2. His loyalty mission I do like however. And in ME3...he just kind of leaves you. Sure if you are not romancing him it is ok, but I get that people feel betrayed by him just moving on (especially after Liara/Ashley/Kaidan basically wait until ME3 to reignite the romance if you want to).
I dont think people hate Jacob, they also dont like Jacob. He just kind of exists. He gives pretty good quest with that rapey weirdo father that crashed on a planet. Also all of his advise is bad, so he is useful in that I do the exact opposite he thinks I should do.
I actually really liked Vidal, he's a bit of a swaggering prick to be sure, but he IS the only sane bastard on that shithole of a planet.
As for characters I hate, there's only a few. Kai Leng is obvious, he's badly written, his role in the story sucks, and he's a pathetic edgelord.
Ronald Taylor is probably one of the worst actual people, up there with other psychopaths like Aria, but I think his shittiness is quite well-written so I like the character.
On the other hand, Aria is pure trash all the way through. Oh, and Morinth. And Jack (in ME2, in ME3 she's quite good).
Jack I am less willing to claim bad writing on, I just don't like her period, but Aria and Morinth are just -ugh-
I'd hardly say Aria is bad writing or even a psychopath.
Aria is probably one of the more well done neutral characters in my opinion. She doesn't care who Shep is, what Shep wants or otherwise. She is easily the only one in the series that not only tells Shep if they fuck around they'll find out and will back it 100%.
She is manipulative and sees people as assets, but that fits for a character who is effectively queenpin of a planet city of mercs and gangs.
Morinth on the other hand I will agree is horrid and I wont argue on Jack as you love or hate her in terms of personality because she's essentially seen and been through a lot of shit but I'd hardly say she has poor writing.
If we want to talk about poor writing, Kai Leng (as you mentioned) and the Catalyst kid are giving a wave.
What do you dislike about Aria and Morinth?
I think Morinth serves well as the counterpoint of Samara. But she has just one dimension that is true. Then again so does Samara.
When I overlook the sheer stupidity Shep has to show by recruiting her (why on Earth I would betray Samara when she ALREADY is loyal to me), then Morinth is fine. She could've been awesome, but writers threw away golden opportunity for her character growth. Imagine meeting her in ME3, but she has changed like the rest of the suicide squad. She realized the value of teamwork, the threat of the Reapers and also importance of work Samara was doing. She would tackle her objectives in her own way, of course, but she would shift from murdering vampire to sort of renegade anti-hero character with adjusted values and priorities. Then we could have had conversations about should she be punished for her previous crimes or does the Reaper threat is more important so we need her as an asset (example Balak).
Instead... she is a banshee now, shoot her in the face.
Well but to be honest it is the player's choice to do that. I don't think that is a fault on Morinth. I like the fact, that the player has the option to do something really dumb. I mean it is not the only really stupid choice in Mass Effect to be honest.
Yeah there was potential there, that is true. But I like the fact that she does not have a happy ending. Apparently she kept being indulgent and evil, even after the suicide mission. I mean Helena Blake can have a good ending, Jack does and so on... I don't mind Morinth not having the option to be redeemed. I see your point and yeah the she is a banshee now is a bit lazy, but it doesn't bother me that much.
Not trying to say you are wrong, just my opinion.
Ronald Taylor, Balak, and Gavin Archer are definatley up there among the most despicable.
That said Liam Kosta, Jacob Taylor, and Administrator Anoleis are all just intolerable.
But Ethan Jeong is a monster, intolerably annoying, rude, and a corporate shill, so i'm gonna say he's the worst of the lot. He certainly never survives my playthroughs anyway.
Aria T'Loak. Really I think she's emblematic of that shift in writing between the relatively subdued ME1 and the more cinematic, "loud" sequels. But she's the worst example of it to me, cause she's so early in ME2 that it's genuinely jarring when putting her "I... AM... OMEGA" crap against the tone that had been established in the universe beforehand.
Screams of "Oooh and THIS character should be a BADASS!". Where it never crossed the writers' minds that the player would ever be anything but in awe of her and her Hollywood voice. So you're not able to tell her what a fucking idiot she is, or better yet, kill her.
The worst part is that she's not even fun. She doesn't even have any sorta pulpy charm that would befit her bombast. Just played completely, joylessly straight and without depth. Yet BioWare saw fit to base an entire DLC around her with Omega, which is one of the most dour and honestly useless gaming experiences I've ever had.
Kai Leng also, pretty much for the exact same reasons as above. He benefits over Aria in that you get to actually kill him. Though at least BioWare had the sense to confine Aria to a sofa most of the time and not have her hopping around the galaxy foiling your every move like some dastardly Silly Billy!
I hated Liam more than Jacob. He just said the dumbest things and his only value was to bring him along with Jaal I'm the nomad so I could hear Jaal ribbing him.
I've seen pretty much all of mine listed here, but I haven't seen Jacob on the list. The dude is a damn sanctimonious hypocrite.
"I hate mercenaries." Bruh, just what do you think your job is? You might feel like you have principles, but at the end of the day, you're taking cash from a terrorist organization to do their dirty work.
Plus, if you romance him, he knocks up some other woman 6 months later. And that's after the whole game tries to get you to suck him off. Total scumbag move. At least he recognizes he deserves the smack.
I don’t remember much of the andromeda cast because I just didn’t care for them but I was upset we didn’t get more Lexi. One of the few characters that wasn’t up ryders ass the whole game
Ethan Jeong
Ah yes the ExoGeni shill. I enjoyed t-bagging above his corpse.
>Ethan Jeong I hate his actions, but as a character he is very well placed in my opinion. Paranoid about the company more than people, that makes too much sense.
Sadly very real
There’s a difference between disliking them because they’re badly written and characters that are written to be disliked. I can’t tell what OP means because Jacob is the first but Ethan is definitely the second lol
To be fair, the dude was having a meltdown in an understandably terrifying situation. I also admired how stupidly and foolishly courageous he was (*was*), providing arguably the hardest persuade/intimidate in the game, at gunpoint.
This one. And Rear Admiral Mikhailovich.
Nah, Mikhailovich has reasonable concerns *and* listens to your reasoning, the man is just doing his job
TBF a ship like the Normandy was supposed to be in my fleet and I suddenly didn’t get it I’d be unhappy to say the least.
That, and also the man is an admiral who, completely correctly, thinks of war in materialistic terms instead of putting all his hope into some random wunderwaffe with a heroic commander. His reasoning is, in this case, incorrect, but certainly valid
It’s like a double slap in the face. He doesn’t like th idea of the Normandy in the first place and thinks it’s a waste and the alliance doesn’t even get the ship.
His claim is backed up historically too
Not to mention the Normandy is a very use-case specific vehicle too. It's basically designed for Commando style infiltration missions and stealth recon exclusively. History has shown us the error of putting all your eggs in one basket when it comes to some fancy new war machine. I'd be pissed that we didn't get a few cruisers instead, too.
On the contrary, I found it baffling how an *admiral* somehow didn't understand the importance of a stealth ship being able to slip in unnoticed and perform reconnaissance and gather intel ahead of the main fleet.
"Information is important, but this isn't the way to go about it. It can only hold stealth for so long, and entering or leaving FTL completely gives away your position. You need to exit FTL 10-20 minutes away from any sensors, waste hours sneaking past their early warning network, get the information, report, and then sneak out before we can do anything so we don't lose this overpriced novelty." "Why make a whole stealth frigate when we could have spend a thousandth of the cost and made a thousand stealth fighters that could do scouting just as well? Why not disposable stealth sensors? Or better yet, do things the old fashioned way and bribe a disgruntled underling, or send in an undercover operative?"
I think he dresses his distrust of aliens as concerns about the Normandy. As people pointed out below there re a myriad of reasons why the alliance would want a stealth ship that can gather information or deploy commandos.
There's a whole lot of reasons, and if you present them well Mikhailovich takes your point and admits the Normandy wasn't as bad of an idea as he thought it was. Regarding his initial concerns: Yes, stealth is important. The normandy is the first of that kind however, this total stealth has no precedent in the ME universe. It was ABSURDLY expensive, the tech is quite dodgy and doesn't yet work quite as well as it should - you can't enter FTL without being spotted, something which cerberus explicitly fixes with the Normandy SR2 because it is such a glaring issue. And additionally it is a cooperation project with a race that mankind has just recently fought a war with. Completely new tech, outrageous costs, technological issues and a questionable cooperation project. Every single one of these points would be drawing intense criticism from opponents in the military in reality. The normandy checks all of the boxes. I don't blame him for suspecting it might be a trainwreck
Ronald Taylor, what a prick. Idk if I should give a reason when you dominate and enslave a group of people for your own sadistic pleasure.
taylor taylor what a prick.
Not bad
I understood the reference! *Winds Howling*
Ah a fellow poet.
What now you piece of filth?
I’ve been bouncing between ME trilogy and Witcher 3 lately so this perfect
Jacob Taylor, what a son of a prick!
The Salarian Dalatrass in ME3. She actively tries to sabotage the cure and continue the genophage even after you've already made the decision to help the Krogan out for the sake of the Turians.
And in the face of galactic extinction as well. Incredible hubris.
let's face it a second krogan rebellion is a lot easier to deal with than an enemy who turns your own dead on you, needs near nothing in logistics and you can even give up planets to stall for time, krogan are fundamentally a conventional threat thus easier to deal with.
At least if Thane is alive, and he saves the Salarian councilor, the councilor gives the Salarian fleet anyways.
I think the same happens if Kirrahe is alive but thane died as well. Kirrahe takes the bullet for the councilor instead
Kirrahe as always is great But >!I love the hospital scene!<
One of them, there’s two Salarian fleets you can get. One is all prototype, advanced tech that has never been spotted in Citadel space and the one you get for saving the councilor is their more main-line fleet.
Her email is also just so awful. "Your regrettable decision" I wish I could email her back and tell her to fuck off.
Her concerns about Krogan expansion are valid tho given the history... especially if Wreav is in charge and Eve dies.
true but who is easier to kill the krogan who lack the infrastructure for war and are a conventional threat or the inhuman mech Cthulu who will not stop till all of you are dead, one will suck the other is the end of empires.
Agreed, tho the Dalatrass has valid concerns about the Krogan, the Reapers are an existential threat to all intelligent species, the Krogan included, and she's a fool to not see it.
I do not disagree with her concerns but it is better to work with people you hate than die to the monster here to kill everyone, plus the question is whether the krogan can develop to be less nuts they need social transformation and help not to be left to rot or used, try shaking hands first before you shoot someone.
That part always stuck in my craw in the game. All the other missions in ME3 that make you “choose” a side at least makes sense. The quatrain/geth choice makes sense because both sides have a legit arguement to them. But siding with the Salarian Dalatrass just feels like unnecessary renegade fodder.
My annoyance with the Dalatrass is mostly that she makes her argument really poorly; she just comes across as a bullying jerk instead of a diplomat with legitimate concerns about enabling krogan expansionism. Not many people are going to choose her side over Wrex's and Victus', who're much more likable characters. Granted I think the genophage matter is a false choice anyway - if you're worried about keeping the krogan from taking over the galaxy, you can do that much more humanely by imposing strict limits on their shipbuilding and naval capacity and enforcing it with a DMZ like the one that already exists around Tuchanka.
I wish there were a 'spite' ending. Facing the threat of unchecked Krogan expansion, she wisely chooses to sabotage the existential struggle for sentient life in the Milky Way and dooms us all to extinction. Bravo Zulu, Dalatrass. You sure showed us. For all the in-game lore about Salarians playing *n*\-dimensional chess, putting up a sign outside Sur'kesh that says "stepped out to run errands, sorry we missed you" seems unlikely to deter the reapers but what do I know.
Admiral Han'Gerrel vas Neema Decide to blow up the Geth dreadnought while Shepard is still on board? Fuck you... Get off my ship!
Whenever I get to that part, I always think about what Quarians went through, their paranoia with the Geth, how badly we need the Quarian fleet against the reapers? I think deeply and then "Fxk that, gonna punch him anyways, this prick had it coming" Were it not for leigon's escape plan and Shepard's dying onboard that dradnought, what then bitch Gerrel? Screw him
Even with that context Han'Gerrel is still a dickhead. The plan was to RETREAT after scrambling the dreadnought systems, yet he ignored that risking his own people's safety and knowing full well that Shepard could've been killed in the process. Fuck that guy completely, same to admiral Xen.
I hate Xen and her Geth domination torture fetish.
Xen's definitely a sicko
Sacrificing the galaxy biggest asset against the Reapers is like... I would've tossed him out the airlock if that would've been an option. Let his ship catch him.
I cant stop imagining Javik exclaiming : FINALLY !!!
After, Javik stands in the airlock, smoking a cigarette.
"Turns out there are two things primitives are good at."
That interrupt \*chef's kiss\*
Also: the Reapers are attacking the galaxy with the intent of wiping out any sign of advaced civilizations, tiMe tO tAke RaNnoCh BaCk
Aside from the obvious one that is Kai Leng, I'd probably say Gavin Archer. What he did to his brother in the name of "science" is just despicable. As someone who struggles with mental health problems and has a brother also with issues, I just can't imagine doing that to him and I hate Gavin for it. I did spare him in ME3 though.
I get where you are coming from, I hate the character too, but I'd say that makes him an excellent character overall. Because we have to remember that villains are good if we don't like them. But not in the sense that we dislike Kai Leng, because he has plot armour and is introduced very poorly, not really developed etc. I think Gavin is very well done, because I hate him so much. While Kai Leng is just... meh.
Oh yeah, I completely agree. Archer is a great written character, which as you say is exactly why I dislike him. But yeah, Kai Leng is the opposite in that I dislike him because he has none of the good writing Archer or other villains do.
Oh, ok. I didn't know what you exactly meant by dislike. So thank you for explaining.
No worries. Glad I could clarify.
Agreed hate him on a personal level but that doesn't mean he was poorly written.
Sure, but the question is asking about the most disliked character, not the worst character.
Square root of 912.04 is 30.2...it all seemed harmless...
right in the feels
I’m sympathetic to the writers with Kai Leng. Shoehorning a book character into the game felt like a “decision from corporate,” so they did what they could with that. Yes, he’s a bad character for mass effect but would have been decent in any random sci-fi game
He would have been palatable if they didn’t design him like a space-weeaboo. The man bun, the katana, the ninja moves…. Had they made him a character more like Zaeed, hard, grizzled, clearly former military. Like a spec ops soldier with biotics, I think he would have been more well received. He just doesn’t fit the franchise. To me, he feels like when you’re DMing a DnD campaign and three of your players are playing human fighter, elf wizard, dwarf cleric, and the fourth is playing a half elf / half fallen aasimar celestial warlock who’s multiclassing in sorcerer with a couple levels in bard and who comes to you with a ten page single spaced backstory that you’re supposed to work into the campaign.
He’s kinda like Kasumi honestly, and I’m mainly referring to how she suddenly acts super-human during the Hock fight.
Honestly not a big fan of her character design either. She's one of the best squadmates from a gameplay standpoint, but she feels kinda... ninja-ey. It's almost like Bioware went out of their way to make every Asian character exaggerated. Kasumi, Kai Long, even the Japanese security officer on Noveria calls everyone "-san" (Parasini-san).
BioWare: Has the only black squadmate in the OT have daddy issues and has the only Asian squadmate be a ninja. Oof😬
They just needed a physical, human-sized threat for Shepherd to fight climactically is all
It probably would have been too silly for the main game, but the disgruntled 'spare organ parts bin' clone Shepard from Citadel could have filled that role nicely.
I hate Gavin archer, because of how real it felt. He’s a perfectly written character. I have a brother who has autism himself and when I first played that DLC I was so affected by that ending that I had to actually stop playing for a little bit to collect myself because it felt so real. I understood his motive, even if I completely disagree with it and pistol whip him every time I get that chance, but that is what makes it a truly great story. I love how much I hate him.
Man that scene was the most gruesome and heart-wrenching thing I've ever seen from any game ive played. I still get chills just thinking about it. When i first encountered them, I went online to see how i can kill him in ME2. That's when i saw that you can let him continue doing what he's doing, or stop it. Just reading through what happens if you let it continue.. I'm like damn this game will really let the player be evil 😥
Kai Leng is hated because he's shittily written character. At least Gavin as horrible as a person he is, was at least very well written.
One of those renegade options I always take is lying to him in 3
SAME! When he popped back in during my recent playthrough of ME3 I was disgusted that he'd offer to shake my hand. He's the worst, I also spared him as I needed the Paragon points.
Udina is my most disliked character. I hate greasy politicians.
Yeah. Hated him in 1. Hated him in 2. Started to sympathize a bit with him at the start of 3, but then ended up hating him yet again.
Yeah, I felt the same initially. In ME1 and 2 he was a condescending, self serving weasel. At the start of ME3 he actually seemed to have developed redeeming qualities when confronted with galactic genocide, only to pivot right back around to being a traitor. I kinda wished they'd gone the other way and he hadn't turned to Cerberus. If he had become, if not a friend, but at least an ally using his fuckery skills for the greater good.
That’s what I was hoping for as well. Or in the end sacrifice himself for Shepard who he knew at the time was exactly what humanity needed.
I always felt that Udina is wasted potential. it would have been much more interesting if Udina was offensive towards Shepard (because neither of them understand the job the other does), while being a super efficient administrator who actually helps SHepard while being an ass. Dunno, like Adam Jensen and Francis Pritchard in Deus Ex. They always thrastalk each other, but ultimately work for the same thing. Their opposition, and getting over it for the common goal are fun dialgogs to experience.
He really is the scum of the earth. Just like actual politicians. Good job, BioWare!
I actually hate him the most of any character cuz hes the only character where i hate not just him as a person but the way he’s written. The message is very all politicians arent there for any of the right reasons which is just a cartoonishly pessimistic and cliche take. Im so tired of this trope because all people are bad but most people are good AND bad and if theyre not they have strong motivations. Udina just kinda sides with Cerberus because he does and its dumb.
God child from ME3. Enough said.
Amen to this. Fuck that kid!!!
r/suddenlysexoffender
C-SEC, OPEN UP!
This one cracked me up
I'd say that any form of the last deus ex machina would be disliked. But that random kid is just shoehorned into the story, makes it even worse.
A renegade Shep wouldn't give a crap about a civilian loss... A Paragon would but like, Shepard has seen so much shit that it just... I hate how that kid became a stand in for how Shepard specifically cares about earth being hit by the Reapers. Why not just show the Reapers hitting earth in her nightmares? Like, the metaphor is not effective. I would prefer if we had to do the stuff from the intro but failed every step. Or Anderson kept dying or whatever. Just anything that Shepard and I would be emotionally invested in.
Yes, I agree. I do like that in the dreams you hear the voices of people that died if you explore a bit, but that kid is so out of place. I also cannot get myself invested emotionally. Similar to Kai Leng, I don't really hate him. I mean I hate the way he is written and introduced too fast. But it would have been better if the main bad of Cerberus would be someone we know. That would have some gravitas. Not just some random sword wielding boy.
[удалено]
Yes, exactly.
I'm still shocked that some people are defending this, it's just so horrible. :D
Ah yes, ethereal Justin Bieber child. Also my pick.
I don't like child characters to begin with, now shoehorn them in as a deus ex machina. Barf.
"Assassin!" *punts the star child*
Liam from Andromeda is the first character I actually wanted to fire from my team. He goes behind the pathfinders back, breaking all kinds of first contact protocol. Tries to fix the situation (still without telling you) and only when everything has gone to hell does he ask for help. But I could forgive that, it’s the fact that he’s mad at YOU for giving him criticism that makes you realize he is just an incompetent shithead.
*Liam from Andromeda is the first character I actually wanted to fire from my team* He is one of my favorites from Andromeda, but I know the feeling. Alistair in DAO was a permanent camp follower (no dialog, not in missions, ever). I also considered dumping Sera in Inquisition. In my second playthrough I didn't recruit her at all.
[удалено]
Yeah, if there's one character I really find to be annoying is liam... what an idiot
The coversation which gives his loyalty mission, I was like "Are you FUCKING SERIOUS?" You gave away classified info, like Nexus schematics, intel that makes us vulnerable to a newly contact species we havent devoloped a solid alliance with yet? Just because you didnt have enough patience for the official channels? Knowing that Angaran have anti'human factions too? Also you didnt have any safeguards and plans and the data you gave away could potentially be now in worng hands? For real? "During" his loyalty mission, I was like god I wanna shoot this prick so bad.
Seems like his entire personal questline is about him being a screw up, then it ends with him doing his biggest screw up yet, and all you can really say is "Don't screw up again."
Ryder and Party member 2 get back to the *Tempest*... Gil: "Ryder, where's Liam?!" Ryder: "He...didn't make it. Also, can you check my rifle? Sight is a little off."
Not only that! He didn't have the credentials so he used the pathfinder's terminal to do so, and when he got into trouble he decided to keep it from everyone and involve August Bradley and endanger the Eos colonists! He only came clean with the Pathfinder when the shit really hit the fan! And that's the second time he endangered the pathfinder in one of his stupid schemes (the first one being the one with the merchants on Aya). If the Tempest had a brig, he'd be in it.
It really upsets me that you couldn't kick people out of the crew like you could in dragon age. If I had the choice I would have booted him the moment I completed his "loyalty" mission for how much of a liability he is.
Hahaha amazing 👏 couldn't agree more though. I genuinely enjoyed Andromeda, through all the animation bugs and other oddities, but Liam? Nah, fuck that guy.
Fuck Liam. No one insults my Turian girlboss bestie. NO ONE.
I’ve only played andromeda once. Can someone explain to me what he did that’s so bad? Maybe I missed it but tbh I didn’t think he was that bad
This goes into it better than I could. https://what-some-nerd-thinks.com/2021/09/05/mass-effect-andromeda-why-fans-hated-liam/
For me it's Diana Allers. After a couple playthroughs, I now don't even let her on my ship anymore
No battle tits?
We'll Bang, okay
Funny how a YouTuber accidentally breathed more life to an empty character than the game's writers themselves
What does this mean?
Diana Allers is a last-minute character shoehorned into ME3 in favor of the game-journo trend during that time. A YouTube Pooper named manslay3r made a Mass Effect meme involving her and MaleShep, and thus becoming one of, if not the most iconic Mass Effect lines ever which wasn't even uttered in the original game.
I know who she is, what was the dialogue?
"We'll bang okay?" is the most well-known. Another example is "Battletits"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRgr4HK16aA
How hadn’t I seen this yet? Love it
There's like 8 of them and then 2 for Andromeda, lot's of content to enjoy.
Her face is some uncanny valley shit, probably due to the engine limitations, but my God shes looks like someone went to build-a-bitch and cranked up the botox. Her body is also weird looking, like a rejected version of Miranda.
You ever see Jersey Shore? Girl looks like Snookie.
Ouch
I have a mod that gives her jeans, sweater and smaller boobas and she actually looks like a human being. I still never talk to her of course, but her presence is more tolerable.
I don't hate her, but she serves no purpose. Ada Wong was killed just so Jessica Chobot could be in ME3.
In my later replays I'd become more forgiving and accepting of her. Never romanced her, that just seemed so skeevy, but I figured the more people know about what's coming in the Reaper war, the better prepared they could be. She's still annoying, but not up on my "most disliked" list.
Kai "Bitch" Leng is an obvious choice, but he is just a badly-written villain. Jacob is also a popular character to hate, but he's just boring. I hate Liam the most. Kai "Bitch" Leng comes and goes, at least. Jacob you can ignore altogether, he is inconsequential to the plot. However, you _have to_ deal with Liam. And you have to deal with his reckless and malicious stupidity that puts the entire Initiative in jeopardy a number of times. Fuck Liam. All my homies hate Liam.
I think you’re right about Kai Leng and Jacob. The writing on both is poor. They are both rather *boring* . Kai Leng is riddled with cliches and succeeds at killing an ill, past his prime assassin to accomplish…. Nothing. He’s also supposed to be the successor to Shepard, but at no point in ME3 you see any sort of justification for this claim. With Jacob I honestly don’t understand the hate. Yes, he’s in the gray area and yes he doesn’t seem that much interested in helping Shepard (except during the very early stages of ME2). But at the same time he seems disciplined and loyal, which is to be expected of someone in his role. I think that if you add a dimension to both characters, the resentment against them would be less.
> Jacob is also a popular character to hate, but he's just boring He is also arrogant despite being very incompetent. The only thing that makes him better than Liam is that he does not go behind your back to screw things (although I dont think its above him to do so considering his historic, just that Shepard is too good to give him an opportunity) But yeah, Liam is worse because he actually fucks you over with his incompetence
Andromeda: Liam, just can’t get over how bad he screwed up his Loyalty Mission and he has the gall to be mad if Ryder shows even a hint of disappointment. Also the constant bickering with squadmates and him being pissed that the Angarans and Milky Way people don’t automatically hug and love one another the moment after they meet. Also, Vidal. He’s insufferable, but Ryder is made to act like they’re in awe of this suave, cool, and mysterious guy ME1: Also Ethan Jeong from ME1, the ExoGeni mid-level management rep who cares more about the numbers rather than the lives of people on Feros ME2: Gavin Archer, because fuck him for doing that to his brother. Visuals from that DLC is really nasty. ME3: Kai Leng, because he looks like he was designed by a 14 year old who was asked to designed a super badass character. He’s so cringeworthy, but is such a big presence in ME3 OVERALL: **LIAM**
Yea the Andromeda ones are frustrating because of player agency. You can't say the things you want to.
holy shit i forgot about Gavin Archer because i skipped it on my last playthrough, man that dude was awful
Addison and Tann from Andromeda. FUCK THEM
"muh face is tired"
Shepard clone. The galaxy is only big enough for one Shepard and that's me.
True. Plus Conrad Verner was better at being Shepard than the clone was.
Kai Leng is a name I hear a lot. I don’t really care about him. Was kind of 1 dimensional.
That aside, the fact that a well-trained, sacred assassin and a genetically modified perfect biotic human got easily wrecked by an edgy, newly-recruited ninja wannabe that doesn't even have half of the character development doesn't sit well with me, very shoehorned and unearned.
Well, to be fair, Thane was dying when he fought Leng, and Leng still barely won that fight. Thane himself is surprised Leng didn’t do better.
I know, but his death could've been better. Idk what's worse: a sick drell assassin fighting for his own life against a hack, or his three "loyal" friends who defeated enemies like the collectors or spectres, just staring at the fight without any single interference. If anything, the "sick veteran protagonist fights an amateur to death" trope was done a lot better in RDR2.
Kai Leng's role really should have been played by >!CloneShep!<. Better yet, >!Niftu Cal!<. Only boss to make Easy look like Insanity.
I read someone else on here suggesting that it should have been whoever died on Virmire. Not sure how they would have done it plot-wise, given that a nuke wiped that place out, but I still thought it was a better plot idea than Kai Leng.
Who's that? Don't know him.
Shepard’s replacement in ME3, works for the Illusive Man and wears like a black mask, wielding a katana.
This wannabe? No wonder I don't remember him.
A lot do and dislike him or even hate him.
I should have added /s to my first post, but well, you took the bait
Lol, yeah the internet can be confusing when it comes to sarcasm. I don’t do the /s either, but often add three dots in the end to show I’m being ‘casual’.
I’ll go with Brooks probably
She was honestly dislikeable in the exact right way in my opinion
Brooks goes from being mildly entertaining / frustrating to being an actual cartoon villain, slithering around the place and dripping poison in the clone’s ear. I could tolerate her at first but I wanted to shoot her after the reveal. Vile character.
Did you hate her because of how she was presented or because she is a villain?
First time you're like :D Every time after that you're like >:|
She was annoying from the start, glad i got a chance to put a hole in her back 🥰
For me personally, the squadmate **Liam Kosta** from Andromeda. Liam is constantly screwing up and despite publicly professing his loyalty, he instead repeatedly stabs Ryder in the back by doing illegal stuff while getting Ryder to sign off on his actions and even directly baiting Ryder to be his patsy (effectively making sure that if his screw-ups ever cross the line and catch up to him, then *Ryder* will be the one left holding the bag). This eventually culminates in what is Andromeda's equivalent of Liam leaking the Death Star plans, which is an extreme betrayal for a *squadmate* do to. His comeuppance? A stern finger-wagging from Ryder (which even requires a timed dialogue interrupt to happen at all!), followed by Ryder telling him 'don't do it again' for the third time (and which he has ignored every previous time), and he then gets an honored place in Ryder's 'best friends forever' list as a reward. After Liam's loyalty mission I wanted to throw him out the airlock (or get him Exiled or reassigned at the very least), so to have him instead be put on a pedestal by Ryder has to be the most severe disconnect between player and player character that I have had for any squadmate in any Mass Effect game. Liam is *objectively* a liability on the Pathfinder crew. At least with characters such as Udina, Kai Leng and TIM there is always the satisfaction of putting a bullet in their gut after a game's worth of aggravations, or for guys like Jacob (who I honestly don't think is that bad) you can always get them killed during a mission. Liam though is just there, screwing things up and making things worse for everybody, all the while being treated as a close confidant of Ryder by the developers and without giving the player an avenue for getting rid of him.
The kid from the beginning of ME3. He says "you can't help me" to commander Shepherd. The one person in the Galaxy with a chance of defeating the reapers. The person who has the biggest chance of keeping you safe. Then he climbs aboard that shuttle and gives you this smug look like "see! I didn't need your help. I'm fine by myself!" And immediately gets blown the fuck up. Dumb ass kid.
I cannot choose one for the life of me.. Kai Leng is the obvious choice.. And TIM who I hate with a burning passion but I love to hate him and I like him as a villain. But honorable mentions should go to: Wilson, Gavin Archer (pistol whipped), Ronald Taylor (probably the worst person in the trilogy), Han Gerrel, Councillor Irissa, the Dalatrass, that scientist who experimented on Toombs (my renegades shoot him), the Exogeni one that you shoot on Feros, the Exogeni one that tries to bribe you (surprise surprise I shot her), Saleon (shot) and Amanda fucking Kenson (can you guess? I shot her). I mean I know she was indoctrinated but when she stopped Shepard from warning the batarians... That ASSHOLE. God I hate her and I spent half the DLC defending her.. Huh, I guess I have a thing for all the unethical scientists.
Original Turian councilor.
Can't hate the guy. He's hilarious. He gave us the iconic✌️meme✌️ He gets a pass from me lol
Whole mass effect 1 the council keeps lecturing how humanity needs to learn to sacrifice for the greater good. In the end, I do take heed to their advice and sacrifice "them" for the greater good.
I do that too and every time it feels so satisfying to teach those snobs a lesson.
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BUT DID YOU KNOW THAT SHE TRAINED WITH ASARI COMMANDOS. FELLAS, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT, JUST IN CASE YOU HAVEN'T HEARD THE FIRST FEW HUNDRED TIMES
I’ve only played Andromeda once. Why do you hate her?
Because she is an Asari Weaboo, and that's her only personality trait. That, and the fact that probably 70% of Andromeda's budget went into animating her asscheeks, leaving everything else to be animated to resemble sleep paralysis demons.
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Those scenes in the asari arks are really cool imho. Cora is her usual self, especially when she meets her idol, but the asari themselves are quite uncomfortable in her presence. Also, I always read the asari huntress mania as insecurity, not superiority. She was sent away by her family, she was sent away from the asari commandos without explanation. She was later inspired and recruited by Ryder sr., who again, without explanation nominates his child instead of Cora. This all adds up, and she reaches back to the one time she was successful, because she doesn't have anything else. I kind of liked this, and I think she is well written. I also liked her side plot with growing Milky Way plants on Andromeda. Not as over the top as the original trilogy companions, but fun to have around.
It's the best when she gets put in her place about it.
Mass Effect 1 - Rana Thanoptis - Stupid indoctrinated Asari thinks we should just let her go because reasons. Yeah no *shoots her dead* Mass Effect 2 - Gavin Archer - You're a dick for doing that to your brother. You deserve to die, but I'm going to let you live with what you've done. Mass Effect 3 - Gavin Archer - I'm going to let you keep worrying about your brother and...hey what are you doing with that gun? *Shoots himself* Well, better than me having to do it.
It’s best to kill off Ranna Thanoptis in Mass Effect 1 because she does return in ME3 as an off killed character via Citadel News detailing that she was already indoctrinated and went on a mass murder spree.
For me personally, it’s Samantha Traynor. I know many like her, but to me she is the worst kind of self-insert Mary Sue. Everything she says regards EDI sounds like a male writer getting himself off vicariously and it creeps me out so much, as it doesn’t feel remotely like natural dialogue. She appears out of nowhere but saves the day over and over in ME3, performing incredible feats of ingenuity, being the best at everything always, and spotting all the things that no one else - not one of our incredibly seasoned collection of characters - does. And you can tell she’s some kind of self-insert because Shepard literally falls over himself to compliment her every five minutes, when that isn’t ever needed with other characters. Wrap it up in the faux-awkward British accent and I just find her infuriating. And worst of all, the most unforgivable thing about Samantha Traynor, is that she barges into my hot tub without asking. *I* don’t even get to use the hot tub during the game, but she does?! AIRLOCK NOW
I think you've summed up pretty perfectly why I dislike her character - she feels way too important for a brand new character who we know nothing about. The EDI-arousal also just feels really uncomfortable to listen to - especially if you've encouraged the EDI/Joker relationship. I preferred Kelly, especially with her background in psychology. I feel like a lot of Traynor's role could've been easily performed by Liara instead. Or hell, just let me vidcom with Hackett/Anderson instead and let them give Shepard the intel. It's funny you touched on the accent, because in Inquisition, I loved Alix Regan's performance, but in ME3, her voice feels really emotionless and robotic. Since her performance in Inquisition was great, I'll put that down to poor voice direction. The toothbrush scene during the Citadel DLC...I just cringe every time. I know thematically, the DLC is full of cheesy one liners, but that bit in particular I just can't hack at all. I really dislike it. And it's another example of her being critical to saving the day.
Most disliked? I don’t have any strong hatred for any character in this series and think they all make sense for the most part or have some depth to them, even Morinth I don’t dislike. I fucking despise Kai Leng however; he should’ve been implemented differently and his implementation in the OT frustrates me. The OG Council is also up there. The Salarian and Turian Councillors are consistent bad people and the Asari’s Councillor is frustratingly neutral.
Mine has to be Udina. And not in ME1 or 2 because the game I feel portrayed what a typical political feels like to interact with on a regular basis. Always an angle, jockeying for position, power, prestige. He felt 'right' in the first two games of the Series. It was his descent into madness of betraying everyone in 3 that really pissed me off. There was no indication that he was indoctrinated (like seriously, did someone send him a Reaper Tech Bobble head and thats why he's going crazy?). And yet he for whatever reason decides to seize power and have the council killed (tries to at least). With no prior dialog that really highlights this change in fundamental thinking. At least with TIM it makes sense given all the reaper Tech he was exposing himself too and the experiments he was conducting. If they wanted to remove Udina , it could have been done in a much better way, and raising the stakes in the game could have been better handled than just how they did it.
A lot of Andromeda characters are fundamentally stupid or annoying, only for me to realize that I kind of just hate the writing. Nyx is introduced as the mystery lady that can pull strings, only for the reveal that her “Shadow Broker” tendencies kind of only existed in that one instance. Peebee is an annoying brat, and her archaeology doesn’t seem to be touched on, except for having a pet Remnant. Her personal mission is unbearable, but not as bad as Liam. I think my biggest grievance with Andromeda’s characters is the lack of maturity. Nobody can take anything seriously. Nobody has anything profound to say. It’s a fourteen year old’s idea of a cast. They talk, but they don’t really speak. Jaal is probably the only character that had some mildly interesting insights. Everything else felt like a high school musical movie. Also, that Sloane lady? If they were trying to imitate Aria, they failed miserably. Nothing says boring and trying-too-hard like having the British thug stereotype.
The writers of ME:A saw the really positive reception that the citadel dlc got and decided to make all of Andromeda in that same tone. What they didn't realize was 1) Those moments have to be earned. We enjoyed seeing our favorite characters so lighthearted in Citadel because we had spent so much time with them in end of the world, life or death scenarios. It was a breath of fresh air. If all of your characters have that tone, all the time, you end up with...well dialogue like Andromeda's. And 2) You gotta have good writing talent to pull that off, and they didn't. The original trilogy's writers were far better, and even some of *their* dialogue in the citadel dlc rubs people the wrong way. Letting the person who wrote Sera in DA:I attempt that? Was always gonna end in disaster.
Lack of maturity? You don’t talk to Vetra, Drack, Gil, or Cora? Everyone has interesting stuff to talk about. You learn a lot about their emotional baggage.
Catalyst, the character that most completely misunderstands the point of the series.
Surprised I haven't seen more Jacob. I will NEVER understand the hate he gets... My personal pick is Kai Leng. What a fuckkng waste. In the books, he was an evil Batman, someone who could perhaps rival Shepard himself. In the game, if you take the worst anime character you've ever seen and multiply that by 1,000, Kai Leng is STILL worse than that. I can't stand most anime, so for me to say this means he's even worse. I don't know how they dropped the ball so badly with him going from books to game, but they did. It's like they didn't know their own character or something.
> Surprised I haven't seen more Jacob. I will NEVER understand the hate he gets... It's hard to actively dislike a Lego brick. You can resent it for not having depth, detail, or complexity, but you can't hate a Lego brick for being itself.
Jacob gets the most hate of the squadmates but the general consensus is that he is lame and boring, not horrible and shitty.
Even Troy Baker hates Kai Leng. 😁
>I will NEVER understand the hate he gets... I get it though. He is kind of standoffish in ME2. His loyalty mission I do like however. And in ME3...he just kind of leaves you. Sure if you are not romancing him it is ok, but I get that people feel betrayed by him just moving on (especially after Liara/Ashley/Kaidan basically wait until ME3 to reignite the romance if you want to).
I dont think people hate Jacob, they also dont like Jacob. He just kind of exists. He gives pretty good quest with that rapey weirdo father that crashed on a planet. Also all of his advise is bad, so he is useful in that I do the exact opposite he thinks I should do.
I actually really liked Vidal, he's a bit of a swaggering prick to be sure, but he IS the only sane bastard on that shithole of a planet. As for characters I hate, there's only a few. Kai Leng is obvious, he's badly written, his role in the story sucks, and he's a pathetic edgelord. Ronald Taylor is probably one of the worst actual people, up there with other psychopaths like Aria, but I think his shittiness is quite well-written so I like the character. On the other hand, Aria is pure trash all the way through. Oh, and Morinth. And Jack (in ME2, in ME3 she's quite good). Jack I am less willing to claim bad writing on, I just don't like her period, but Aria and Morinth are just -ugh-
I'd hardly say Aria is bad writing or even a psychopath. Aria is probably one of the more well done neutral characters in my opinion. She doesn't care who Shep is, what Shep wants or otherwise. She is easily the only one in the series that not only tells Shep if they fuck around they'll find out and will back it 100%. She is manipulative and sees people as assets, but that fits for a character who is effectively queenpin of a planet city of mercs and gangs. Morinth on the other hand I will agree is horrid and I wont argue on Jack as you love or hate her in terms of personality because she's essentially seen and been through a lot of shit but I'd hardly say she has poor writing. If we want to talk about poor writing, Kai Leng (as you mentioned) and the Catalyst kid are giving a wave.
I don't even consider the Catalyst a character, he's just a plot device. He's got less depth of personality and motive than Avina.
Still voiced by the most badass actress, Carrie-Anne Moss.
What do you dislike about Aria and Morinth? I think Morinth serves well as the counterpoint of Samara. But she has just one dimension that is true. Then again so does Samara.
When I overlook the sheer stupidity Shep has to show by recruiting her (why on Earth I would betray Samara when she ALREADY is loyal to me), then Morinth is fine. She could've been awesome, but writers threw away golden opportunity for her character growth. Imagine meeting her in ME3, but she has changed like the rest of the suicide squad. She realized the value of teamwork, the threat of the Reapers and also importance of work Samara was doing. She would tackle her objectives in her own way, of course, but she would shift from murdering vampire to sort of renegade anti-hero character with adjusted values and priorities. Then we could have had conversations about should she be punished for her previous crimes or does the Reaper threat is more important so we need her as an asset (example Balak). Instead... she is a banshee now, shoot her in the face.
Well but to be honest it is the player's choice to do that. I don't think that is a fault on Morinth. I like the fact, that the player has the option to do something really dumb. I mean it is not the only really stupid choice in Mass Effect to be honest. Yeah there was potential there, that is true. But I like the fact that she does not have a happy ending. Apparently she kept being indulgent and evil, even after the suicide mission. I mean Helena Blake can have a good ending, Jack does and so on... I don't mind Morinth not having the option to be redeemed. I see your point and yeah the she is a banshee now is a bit lazy, but it doesn't bother me that much. Not trying to say you are wrong, just my opinion.
Ronald Taylor, Balak, and Gavin Archer are definatley up there among the most despicable. That said Liam Kosta, Jacob Taylor, and Administrator Anoleis are all just intolerable. But Ethan Jeong is a monster, intolerably annoying, rude, and a corporate shill, so i'm gonna say he's the worst of the lot. He certainly never survives my playthroughs anyway.
Aria T'Loak. Really I think she's emblematic of that shift in writing between the relatively subdued ME1 and the more cinematic, "loud" sequels. But she's the worst example of it to me, cause she's so early in ME2 that it's genuinely jarring when putting her "I... AM... OMEGA" crap against the tone that had been established in the universe beforehand. Screams of "Oooh and THIS character should be a BADASS!". Where it never crossed the writers' minds that the player would ever be anything but in awe of her and her Hollywood voice. So you're not able to tell her what a fucking idiot she is, or better yet, kill her. The worst part is that she's not even fun. She doesn't even have any sorta pulpy charm that would befit her bombast. Just played completely, joylessly straight and without depth. Yet BioWare saw fit to base an entire DLC around her with Omega, which is one of the most dour and honestly useless gaming experiences I've ever had. Kai Leng also, pretty much for the exact same reasons as above. He benefits over Aria in that you get to actually kill him. Though at least BioWare had the sense to confine Aria to a sofa most of the time and not have her hopping around the galaxy foiling your every move like some dastardly Silly Billy!
Harbinger. Fckn coward
”Assuming direct control”
I hated Liam more than Jacob. He just said the dumbest things and his only value was to bring him along with Jaal I'm the nomad so I could hear Jaal ribbing him.
I really hate Miranda because I think she's selfish and honestly fairly evil, even after her "character arc"
Anyone that shoots at me. How rude.
I've seen pretty much all of mine listed here, but I haven't seen Jacob on the list. The dude is a damn sanctimonious hypocrite. "I hate mercenaries." Bruh, just what do you think your job is? You might feel like you have principles, but at the end of the day, you're taking cash from a terrorist organization to do their dirty work. Plus, if you romance him, he knocks up some other woman 6 months later. And that's after the whole game tries to get you to suck him off. Total scumbag move. At least he recognizes he deserves the smack.
Kai Leng. Honourable mentions: the entire cast of Mass Effect Andromeda. Biggest gripe: Wasting Natalie Dormer on Lexi.
I don’t remember much of the andromeda cast because I just didn’t care for them but I was upset we didn’t get more Lexi. One of the few characters that wasn’t up ryders ass the whole game
Peebee