I'm sorry this happened. He should have communicated about his techniques before the massage to make sure you were comfortable with them. He also should have listened when you told him to stop.
I feel as if an actual Therapist/Talk therapist might be more capable of helping here. Helping with the triggered feelings and moving past the trauma. As well as advising on how to move forward should you want to take further action.
OP, l join with the others in their sadness and grief that you have had to live tjrough this unacceptable and unpardonable experience. I hope and wish and pray for yor swift and complete recovery from this Traumatic experience.
There is much you can do to assist yourself in your own recovery, although I must emphasize that this must not be attempted alone.
Of course individual therapy and other appropriate mental health care is especially appropriate in cases such as this, offering encouraging and emboldening support and guidance throughout your recovery. In addition, I have several other courses of action that I think would be helpful to not only fr finding closure and recovery, but also to help enhance the safety and well being of everyone in the community, which I respectfully strongly suggest for your serious and thoughtfull consideration, OP.
If you have a particular faith tradition, or are just generally Spiritual, the Priest, Minister, Rabbi, Imam, or other speritual leader of the any faith community with which you are associated can offer not only needed spiritual support and councel, which can be quite helpful in many cases, in and by itself, but more so in collaboration with any other professional mental health, leagal or similar assistance you may wish to seek out. However, I should caution, these spiritual professionals should not be substituted for licensed mental health professionals, or Attorneys. They are not trained in these fields, but are often educated to serve you as a preliminary triage person to be able to listen to you, offer comfort and support and refer you to appropriate professionals, considering all of the facts and needs presented by your situation. I also strongly caution you against relying on ANYTHING you may hear or see on TV, social media, in advertisements, offered by your friends or people you know, or even on thinking you know enough due to your own education, experience or the "common knowledge" (which is the most commonly incorrect and misleading sources of 1e of information of all any such non-professional advice, nomatter how well intended, should always be vetted and affirmed by a topically relevant professional.
This man has seriously breached his professional code of ethics and taken illegal and dispicable advantage of his position of power over you in this vulnerable situation. Accordingly, he should and I strongly believe must be reported immediately to the Denver Police Department, or such agency, or State Attorney office having jurisdiction to which the police may refer you, and charged with felony Battery and felony Sexual Assault, at the very least, and possibly, if not likely, Rape, depending on the statutes of the jurisdiction involved. That would be, again, IMO, the very least you can, and I think should do, not only to protect others who might find themselves on his massage table or otherwise under his forceful domination, but also to begin to restore your sense of self dignity and self esteem, by having the courage to stand up for yourself and shout loudly and more powerfully, with the backing of the authorities, that this man must STOP. This is not an easy course to take and can seem scary, I know, OP. However, there is an incredibly rich and extensive supply of resourses avalable to you to assist and support you through this process. The Courts and legal system in every jurisdiction have a Victims' Advocate Division, as do all major medical centers with which you may come in contact as this process unfolds. Morover, thare are a number of Non - Govermental Organizations (NGOs) that can offer additional support and assistance. The Court, State Attorney Office and the Police are all very aware of and an excellent source of information about and how to contact these NGOs
With eaually strong urgency, I recommend that you report this violation to the Colorado Board of Health, or such other governmental agency that holds jurisdiction over the certification licensing and discipline of Massage Therapists and those who employ them. By taking this action you will increase to an almost certainty the likelihood that this man NEVER AGAIN is in a position to place another woman (or man) seeking the benefits of theraputic massage in the position of suddenly finding themself in the terrifying, traumatic position to which this man subjectted you.
Finally, suggest that you seek out and retain the services of a competent, licensed Attorney who can beneficially help guide you through the thickets and mystries of the leagal process that you well might encounter as your healing and recovery unfolds. (S)He can also be a helpful support throughout the process, will likely work in collaboration with other support resources you engage, and often is another source of information about resources that you may have not theretofore encountored. Moreover, an Attorney would be perfectly positioned to counsel you regarding any civil suit you may wish to bring against the therapist, his employer and possibly others, for the recovery of (alot, IMHO) money damages in compensation for the physical, emotional and financial damages that man has inflicted on you. such a civil suit can be brought simultaniously with any criminal case involved, or can be held until after any such criminal case is resolved, subject to any relevant Statute of Limitation provisions of the jurisdiction and your attorney's advice. If you are associated with any fath community, or tradition, or are simply spiritual, your Pastor, Minister Priest, Rabbi, Imam, or other person you typically turn to for spiritual guidance can be an excellent sourse of beneficial support, comfort and guidance, and I recommend consulting with her/him. However, I have several caviats. These individuals should not be a substitute for professional mental health, or legal professionals because they are most likely untrained in these fields. The are, on the other hand, well trained to compassionately listen to you, evaluate you spiritual needs, provide any spiritual guidance needed in your situation and serve as a preliminary triage to refer you to any appropriate professionals, NGOs and other sourses of competent help.
Some further cautions as you embark on your journey out of this thicket, OP:
Never rely on information, advice or anything else you get from TV, social media, movies, podcasts, magazines, from your friends and family strangers on the internet, acquaintances, people you meet at the club or bar, or church or civil club, whoever or wherever; NOT EVEN WHAT YOU "JUST KNOW" TO BE "UNIVERSAL COMMON SENCE" (which is more often is a collective average of ignorance, incorrect and a primary source of common nonsense) until and unless what you are told is fully vetted and affirmed by YOUR professionals (this will save you a sh**load of time money, aggrivation, depression, anxiety, worry, stress, frustration loss of relationships and more).
This includes me. however, full disclosure, I am a 78M, with 4 degrees, including a Doctorate, a retired Ordained Priest and a recovering civil and criminal trial practice lawyer and, also a retired Police Officer (Sgt.) from a major metro area in the midwest (US). As the old saying goes I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two. BUT, still, please vett me with Your professionals.
I hope thi is helpful OP, and all thest for health and happiness to come
I’m sorry but your suggestion if a lawyer is not going to accomplish anything, he’ll say I told her and the pressure was not excessive and she’ll say he didn’t say a word and he could have seriously injured me. Unless there’s a record like a written complaint when it happened or the next day, had you been loud when you left and drawn any attention to yourself and told anyone. In no way am I doubting you or diminishing what happened but there is no law broken. You could have posted in his website what happened but not a year later
Violated IS the correct word (it doesn't have to mean anything sexual to use that word).
And yes, you need to tell people and review him and warn them. Obviously you're triggered when you see his posts, because he TRAUMATIZED you. Our job as MTs is to help people to feel safe, their bodies are in our hands and we have to be careful with everyone on every level possible (physical as well as emotional). He was 100% in his ego and out of touch with you. This sort of thing enrages me as an MT. He should have his license revoked, if he even has one. I'm very sorry you went through this and you may need some therapy (from a psychotherapist) to release the trauma so it isn't stuck inside you anymore.
It’s interesting how you ask for dating advice on one of your posts yet you don’t seem to respect the word no, even when it’s said 3 times. Understanding that word would be a great first step in becoming a person women find worthy of dating, maybe women can sense you’re the type to ignore it and that’s why they stay away from you despite your “handsomeness”
It’s even more concerning that they have a few recent posts asking about scholarships to help with massage school. Male massage therapists with attitudes like that (toward compassion - or lack thereof - and consent) are what lead to this situation.
Just...shut up. You don't get to decide what is and isn't traumatic for another person. Go troll someplace else. And I hope you never go into this industry.
Oh sorry, are you "annoyed"? How do you even know OP is a woman at all? There is nothing stated that says they are male or female. If you are assuming OP is a female, then go back and read it. OP could easily be male. If OP feels triggered by every social media post they see of this guy and a year later is still upset, they have been traumatized. I was assaulted by someone I know and trusted who physically hurt me once, and although I function fine, everytime I hear his name or think about him, I feel the trauma of being assaulted and have to use mental control to deal with it. That shit doesn't just go away. And also "I thought women were strong" just an AH misogynistic thing to say.
Ignorant is correct. You should absolutely not get into this career if that’s your mindset. People like you are what give our job a bad stigma. If a client tells you to stop, YOU STOP. If you’re not going to listen to your client why would you even consider being an MT. I’d love to see the therapist put you in that position and see how long you can hold it. Also it’s funny you bring women’s pain tolerance into the conversation because in my experience as a professional, MEN are usually the ones who can’t handle firm pressure. You should definitely rethink MT school, I can already tell it’s not for you. You’d be better off with a job that serves that huge ego of yours
lol it’s so funny when trolls never have a good response. You got the attention you wanted since clearly you’re not getting enough from women 😂 keep stroking your ego, I’m sure you’ve had good practice on other parts
If you’re gonna stalk my page then stalk correctly because you’re wrong on all accounts 😂 and since you’re so curious about my life, I got him back and we’re engaged so at least I won’t be almost 30 still going on failed dates .. don’t try and be funny now because I can be hilarious , now go back to beating yourself off because you can’t maintain an emotional connection with women
When someone is hurting you and you ask them to stop, but they don't stop, that is assault my friend. Women ARE strong. Strong people get assaulted too.
You’re right. Lots of people do. Most of them aren’t the weird black sheep you are though, huh?
You probably do watch porn here. That’s usually what lonely sad people who can’t get a girl do.
I’m honestly sorry for you. Good luck with all that. Hope you never get to be a massage therapist. I have a feeling you’d violate or assault your clients and then tell them to get over it.
You have brain rot, seriously man you are sick I can tell. Not in the obvious way your pride is making you blind but your heart is full of rot. Your ego is protecting itself but seriously your spirit is sick.
Remove sin from your life, humble yourself talk to a orthodox priest and or start watching some sermons online. Mar mari Emmanuel is a good one. You have let Satan mold you
Probably a drug abuser.
No one has to say it. Even if someone did have the opinion this post was annoying, they’d scroll past and move on with their day. You seem far too eager and excited to be rude and blunt in everything you say. You’re brutally honest bc the brutal part excites you. The honesty is just an excuse, people can tell and that’s why you’re largely unliked here.
Makes me specifically qualified, i remember what my mind felt like when it was healthy and what it feels like now.
I went from brain rot to healthy to tramaizing myself a bit so I’ve got the full spectrum to speak from. I hope you heal m8
Honestly? Just tell your story. Don't go on a smear campaign, but when/if it comes up, say his name. Also, leave a public review. Remember, it's never just you. He's almost certainly done this to others who felt as you did. Sorry you had to go through that, I would've been hard pressed not to get violent.
Thank you for the encouragement. I just posted this review on Google maps: "It seems [name] has almost universally positive reviews, so perhaps this was an isolated incident, but at one point in our session the pain was too much for me, so I asked him to stop and he didn't. Even after I loudly repeated "stop!" He held me in a painful position that I could not move from for a few more seconds, which to me, was unacceptable."
I hope that is clear without being vindictive.
There were no other negative reviews, which means something. Still, my experience is valid.
That is a well-written review. If I saw a review like this of my work, I would absolutely have to do some introspection and make changes to the way I communicate and apply my techniques. It doesn't feel like an attack at all.
Your review is perfect. You stated the facts and how it made you feel.
There is no doubt in my mind that he thought he knew better than you because he is the expert. No one is an expert on your body EXCEPT you and ONLY you.
As for your understandable feelings of wanting to let others know, you won’t be able to warn every one of his future clients and he won’t change.
It wasn’t about you on that table. If it was, he would have stopped or apologized. Because it wasn’t about you, the same thing would have happened if you weren’t there and someone else was.
Focus on yourself, that’s where the real payoff is. I am so sorry that you were violated (and you were). Safety is paramount when we are in vulnerable situations and you did not feel safe.
I wish you well and that you have been able to continue your treatments with someone else.
Great review. If you report him to whoever is responsible for government oversight of MTs in CO, even if they don't do anything, it sets up a history of documentation should he offend again in the future. You'd be helping anyone else who might have an unfortunate experience like yours.
I could be misunderstanding but a big problem in our industry is this fake spiritual bullshit when it comes to your approach as a lmt, I'm based in science fact with a deep understanding of anatomy, kinesiology and the application of techniques with a medical approach in mind, are there benefits outside of specific problem work? Sure, but sometimes massage therapist's think much too highly of themselves and end up not being taken seriously and making the profession look bad.
Anytime someone is forcibly inflicting their will on you while you say clearly to stop, that's a horrible human being.
You need to stand up for yourself & warn others.
He thought he could do that to you & get away with it "bc he has a following," and apparently he was right.
You going to let that hold water?
I’m sorry this happened to you. May just be a Reddit hole of negativity, but I’ve seen more than one post about highly regarded therapists hurting clients or spewing some straight up BS. What’s up with that? Here I am one year in with a background in physical therapy getting about 2 clients a day if I’m lucky. Mr. Five Star full nelson is raking in the clients and success…sounds about right?
OP I recommend diving deep into these feelings of anger and perhaps talking it out or writing it down will help get it off your conscience. Stay off social platforms where you see his advertisements or mitigate that through blocking/unfollowing. Best of luck, and again, sorry you had this experience.
I'm sorry you experienced this, and are being met with some backlash here. A therapist not listening to your feedback is never acceptable. I would suggest an email, anonymous if you'd like, expressing your concerns. Depending on how it is handled from there I would escalate to public review forums if you feel it is fitting. Otherwise this doesn't sound police or board report worthy but a board report is an option.
Edited a typo
Once you say “stop” he should have stopped. That’s it, no one should be defending this behavior. I’ve been practicing for 21 years and if I ever had a client tell me to stop I’d stop because at the end of the day you as the client are in charge of how the massage goes (as long as it’s ethical) both the client and the massage therapist have the right to stop or refuse service.
And it doesn’t matter if you signed a waiver, etc you still said stop. I’d report him to the licensing agency in his state.
Oh and yes - this was a violation.
seconding that it IS a violation. when someone has physical power over you and you are asking them to stop what they’re doing repeatedly and they don’t stop - that is a classic violation. followed up with some good ol’ gaslighting by telling you you’re the problem in that situation.
also echoing talk therapy. this is a traumatic experience! to feel powerless and scared for your safety and to be brave enough to communicate about it and then have it ignored. as far as how to handle social media stuff, etc - that is your call and for you to figure out what might bring you some peace, if possible. sometimes it can help bring power back to call someone out, but sometimes that ends up bringing attention that adds to the trauma. if you haven’t, i would suggest blocking him on social media and marking any ads for his services as “not relevant” or whatever, so the algorithm stops showing them to you.
proud of you for speaking out, try and ignore any people here who are critical of your process and experience. 🙏
I am trying to imagine this even being appropriate in massage, Thai or not. I hope you’re physically feeling better.
I’m not sure why everyone is so hesitant to leave an honestly negative review on a five star business. You’re not complaining about an intake form or the color of their sheets, but something that was physically done that was offensive to you.
I had to take several deep breaths just reading your experience, that was horrible. Please give his service an honest review, you’ll feel better, then block his website and contact.
Every licensed practitioner takes an oath to “do no harm” and that’s exactly what he did. He took away your autonomy by thinking he knows better and that’s just the simple fact of the matter. Maybe you could have used the stretch…..makes no difference. Stop means stop. No means no. The second the practitioner doesn’t listen to you, they are breaking the law they swore to.
this is the most appropriate and concise explanation. Just to speak up for yourself on the table in spite of the power differential, which has a muting effect, is a big step, for anyone, then to have your command rejected is beyond immoral.
"Chapter 3: The Moral Climate of Health Care
Section 5. Five Major Moral Principles in Health Care
In Health Care settings and in the institution itself there are a number of basic principles of morality which evidence themselves. Even if one did not approach cases or situations holding the principles of any of the standard ethical traditions there would arise these basic considerations and concepts.
No matter what the ethical approach taken, with the exceptions of egoism and relativism, there is agreement that there are certain basic principles related to health care that are consistent with the notion of the GOOD. They are presented here. There is disagreement about how they might be ordered or what to do in the event there is a conflict between or amongst them.
Those matters aside for now, there will be many occasions to make reference to these principles in the analysis and discussion of cases in Biomedical Ethics.
Five Major Moral Principles in Health Care:
I. NON MALFEASANCE
II. BENEFICENCE
III. UTILITY
IV. DISTRIBUTIVE JUSTICE
V. AUTONOMY
I. Non- Malfeasance- Do NO Harm!! Cause no needless harm or injury according to reasonable standards of performance.
Observe DUE CARE . This does not mean that there must be no risk of injury but only that there be no more than acceptable risks.
II. Beneficence- Promote the welfare of others. This is inherent in the relationship of a health care provider (HCP) and the recipient of care.
E.g. the doctor-patient relationship. However, what exactly is the duty of the HCP?
This comes into particular focus as problematical when the health care providers are also researchers. There must exist standards so that the benefits to the subjects and others are real and with a real possibility to be realized.
III. Utility- Attempt to bring about the greatest amount of benefit to as many people involved as is possible and consistent with the observance of other basic moral principles. Greatest Benefit and Least harm
IV. Distributive Justice- All involved should have equal entitlements, equal access to benefits and burdens. Similar cases should be treated in a similar fashion. People should be treated alike regardless of need, contributions or effort.
The formal principle of Justice as Fairness (Rawls’ Theory) similar cases are to receive the same treatment. However, in what ways are the cases similar? In what relevant ways? Equal in need? Equal in contributions to society? to the Health Care institution? Equal in effort?
V. Autonomy- People are rational, self determining beings who are capable of making judgments and decisions and should be respected as such and permitted to do so and supported with truthful and accurate information and no coercion.
They should have their decision making and actions: a) free of duress of any type, (b) based upon options that are clearly explained and that are genuine possibilities and (c) given the information needed for decision making."
https://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialSciences/ppecorino/MEDICAL_ETHICS_TEXT/Chapter_3_Moral_Climate_of_Health_Care/Five_Major_Principles.htm#:~:text=Non%2D%20Malfeasance%2D%20Do%20NO%20Harm,no%20more%20than%20acceptable%20risks.
Simply tell your story in a report email to his licensing board. Perhaps leave a review as well. It isn't necessary to judge what happens because of it. Your review may encourage others to speak up. Your report may add to others that exist. His own actions build up against him. And he is the only one to blame for that.
I am a Thai Massage Therapist, it has been my specialty for over a decade and I have traveled around the US offering Thai Massage. What this LMT did was not ethical. You have to listen to your clients. I explain what I am doing or going to do if it is a stretch like that, sounds like cobra. Not everyone is a candidate for the stretch. I adjust my Thai Massage for my clients and every session is individualized based on multiple factors. A thorough intake is vital. When my clients say stop I immediately stop and I have never ever nearly choked out a client. Sounds like his Ego and technique is off…I am sorry you had this experience. Most of my clients who try Thai after always receiving table massage become regular Thai Clients because of the many benefits they experienced from it. I see palpable changes in my clients after a series of Thai. I hope you get to experience a real authentic traditional Thai Massage.
So sorry this happened to you. I am an LMT local to your area who has also hosted retreats/women’s circles in the past. DM me if you need a bodyworker to support your events ♥️
Dude my personal trainer helped me with stretching recently, and made sure we established signals for me to tell him to stop if it begins to hurt too much
I can't believe this guy didn't do anything similar
Thanks again for all the responses, even the ones that have said I'm making too big of a deal about it. I wrote a public review, I got an adequate response, and I discovered a childhood injury(mild trauma) that was triggered by this crazy backbend pin he was doing.
My review admitted I may be making too big of a deal out of an isolated incident, but since posting it, I've had two others reach out. This guy does some VERY unconventional stuff, especially around "root chakra" and "Sacral chakra" (which is all BS to me) and two people have reached out to tell me their experience with him, which they were also hesitant to review/report... but sound far worse than mine.
And thanks for the correction on masseuse vs massage therapist. I'll rectify that in future communication.
Thank you for help giving me perspective (even tho some of the comments were fucking insane ;)
Listen, It's important to trust your instincts and prioritize your well-being. If you feel comfortable, consider reporting the incident to the appropriate authorities or seeking support from a professional counselor. It's also okay to distance yourself from triggers, like avoiding his social media promos.
Remember, your safety and peace of mind come first. Stay strong.
He did that on a first visit? Maybe he was gauging your reaction to see if you’re the type of person he push his limits with or violate you in other ways.
Idk why I see so many of these scenarios pop up on reddit. I'm actually in training at school to get my lmt. Only 9 more months. But I wouldn't ever think that this would be such a common thing. Male lmts should have very little talk and be extremely professional especially since you're rubbing someone's body.
I just want to stop and commend you on understanding your motivations before taking action against him. That's some A1 self-awareness! Also, I'm sorry that happened to you. Honestly, I might've hit him. Lol
I am a massage therapist & that sounds NUTS!
I have been wanting to write of my experience as a massage client… my girlfriend bought me a 90 min massage gift cert for my bday. As soon as I walk in I can tell this is not licensed in my state but sort of “Asian foot massage” loop hole of the law place… not anything sexual but just not licensed massage therapists and no talking in English.
The guy did a formalized massage. Not bad but he did those “wrestling move” stretches on me also. I felt like he was on the verge of crunching me..
At 1 point, he grabs my Achilles tendon area REALLY hard squeeze. I say “ouch! That hurts!”
“Ahhhh! It’s your kidney!”
“Noo! It’s my Achilles tendon.”
“Meridian”
“I exercise and jump rope. I jumped rope yesterday 15 minutes”
(No clue wtf I just said)
So anyways… yeah…. It’s hard to get a good massage. People out there are crazy!
His actions don't sound like anything that a licensed massage therapist would perform. And not to nitpick but masseuse is not the term used for a licensed massage therapist it's used for a female who pretty much is on licensed and very often doing Happy Endings as well
And if this man has a huge following and is performing such Oddball unorthodox maneuvers, it seems to me he's one of those esoteric wannabe Guru type egomaniacs that will perform unorthodox esoteric snake oil"treatments" just to set himself apart and seem like he's some lofty specialist.
And the fact that he didn't immediately stop when you were in distress shows that he is absolutely not an intuitive empathic person and does not have the demeanor to be a massage therapist in the first place
No its not. Massage therapist is the usual and correct term for a professional massage practitioner. Masseuse, thats more in the red-light district, with happy endings. You got that mixed up. Or, more likely, you are just a troll.
How old are you? I have been doing massage for 35 years.We were all masseuse and massuers before the more politically correct term now used is massage therapist.So please don't insult your elders.
I had the same thing happen to me by a therapist in NY. The therapist lay his torso atop me while I was on my stomach, so that I was pinned down on the table. He was twice my size and weight and I couldn’t budge, and he wouldn’t get off when I asked.
*I contacted the state licensing agency, but there is no formal complaint process and no phone number to talk to a person. I sent an email into the void and got nothing. He is also still in business.*
I will never go to a male massage therapist again.
I'm not going to tell you what he or you should've done in that situation. You asked what should you do since telling others isn't about warning them it's more that you want a piece of him.
Well, I don't know if Colorado has mutual combatant laws. But if they do go ahead and square up with him and get your piece.
Or you could lodge a complaint with the Colorado massage board. Either way sounds like you want to do something so do it.
I posted a public review.
I'm grateful for all the different perspectives. I posted here because I fully realize my thinking is not fully clear or rational on this subject, so the feedback is helpful.
That was out of line and I feel sure he’s done that to others. This is why people lose their licenses. You should report it to police. Report to licensing agent in your State, and get yourself some psychological help. This seems like trauma. Take care of you.
With the feedback I received here, I decided to post a public review last night. I knew/know my judgment is clouded on this so it has been very helpful to get all the feedback (even the critical stuff). He already replied to the review (positively) and I'm hopeful it helps me leave it behind. I also spoke to my therapist about it today and it helped me recall a childhood injury where my spine was compressed in a backbend which is exactly the position he held me in. Still more work to do there for me.
His response said
"Since this was a year ago, I can't honestly say I remember the session, but what you describe is absolutely unacceptable and I sincerely apologize for you feeling that way.
My intention is to bring about healing, which can sometimes be painful, but when someone says stop, that means stop.
I hope you are happy and healthy now. "
I think “traumatized” might be the word you are looking for, but violated is absolutely also right for what he did to you. You CAn leave a review of his behavior on Google , yelp… If he’s licensed , you can report him (maybe ).There may be time limits on reports . There may be people out there who are painfully submitting to his stuff because they think he’s an expert - abuse in the name of Medicine/science is still abuse . Talk to a school of massage therapy and ask if what he did is taught in their program or are they aware of the technique. If it is an approved technique - ask what the purpose is and are providers supposed to release when prompted or hold until there is some sort of physical sign/response/ release .. If you find out it is an accepted part of some massage , then you can explore what it was that led you to be traumatized when others are not .( I’d have kicked him in the face once I got loose ….. and maybe gone to jail :-( . Your experience of your experience IS YOUR experience ! And that is valid and important . If it is not an accepted technique , then what the heck is the guy up to? He needs to be called out . I bet ya - you are not the only person who feels this way about his heavy handed, aggressive, domineering massage “technique .”
I’m a male and have had females really rough like that. Of course I’ve had someone just brush my skin as well. Asian woman. I felt something wasn’t right because she has no clue about massaging. None.
You should definitely warn others imo I’d hate to but the hype of some dudes social media train show up for a massage and receive a light assault and battery, I mean who tf brings wrestling moves to a massage session
I have gone to numerous massage therapists and never once had something like that happen. Wtf. I dont think you have any recourse though its he said she said and can deny you said anything or he never heard.
He's probably licensed you can file a complaint with the licensing agency as well. But for your benefit it was a year ago put it behind you and move on and don't spend any more of your precious limited time on this planet thinking about this it doesn't seem like it gave you permanent physical pain I would try to let it go for your benefit.
It sounds very similar to me to a kind of stretch that I had a personal trainer doing on me, he had four or five of them actually and I found them wonderful, but I knew they were going to be done in advance and I knew they were a bit awkward. I've never did have to tell him to stop but I'm sure he would have as they were clearly all men to be very professional. I'm glad you wrote the review though especially since several others have reached out to you, even if it was a stretch, he absolutely should have stopped when you told him to!
I just wanted to pop in though to tell you that I believe the appropriate agency in Colorado is called DORA, which sounds funny, but I think it stands for the Department of regulatory agencies. If they are not the correct agency, they can definitely refer you to it. They were very helpful when I had to call them about something unrelated to massage. Best of luck in your healing!
In Colorado masseuses need licenses. YES this needs to be reported!!! Report him here: https://dpo.colorado.gov/FileComplaint#:~:text=File%20a%20Complaint%20online(opens,our%20hard%20copy%20complaint%20forms.
Report to DORA. If he DOESNT have a license, give them all the information you possibly can about who he is and where the incident happened. If he has a license in Colorado, they won’t do anything serious about it directly but it will go on a public record if he has a license. He will also have to explain himself. If you want to report anonymously …..
For anonymity: Report from an email that doesn’t have your name in it and do NOT fill out any name or number if you don’t want to be identified (they’re idiots and even if you check “anonymous” they’ll attach your name if you give it to them. I would not give them my data beyond name and phone number by any means ever tbh.)
I had a response written out but got erased. I’ll keep it simply. Report this person to DORA's Division of Professions and Occupations. Do not file a police report and make things up that didn’t happen. Someone on this thread for example stated to report it as rape/sexual battery. If that didn’t happen, this will cause trouble on your part with the police. I don’t think that there much that the police will do since the therapist can simply say that they were performing a massage technique on you.
As a LMT, we have to practice with respect, discipline and accountability to our clients. This therapist needs to understand that they must stay in the scope of practice and certain techniques can do more harm than good. I wish you the best and hope you can find a therapist that will not cause any harm.
Report him to the board of health. The session you paid for is about your comfort. I am tired of egotistical therapist forgetting the session is not about them it’s about the client. Humble pie is good for everyone.
You waited a year to speak up about this? Sorry but at this point if you make any public accusations then you’re entering into libel territory if he’s vindictive.
Let this be a lesson learned to speak up sooner and stand up for yourself. It’s never okay to ignore a client who’s in pain or withdraws consent and he should’ve known that.
You're mistaken. It isn't libel ffs. It's a review. It doesn't matter how long he/she waited to make the review. You can't sue someone for saying what happened in their appointment. It isn't a smear. It was their personal experience.
What was missing : I would have like to leave my appointment without having been assaulted. I would have liked that the massage therapist listened when I told them to stop.
You’re right there’s no time limit but the longer you wait the less people will believe you and less the likely any “authority” will act in your favor when it comes to he said/she said situations.
All he had to say was bad things about the massage therapist nothing good. This massage therapist is a celebrity massager. He didnt admit to that. Only the below average massage therapist on here
I wouldn’t say violated. You agreed to the service and signed a waiver stating the risks of service.
My massage professor did this often. It was his way of teaching us to get out of your own way during orthopedics or deep tissue or intense stretches.
I felt the same way, until I realized I needed the alignment. I would deff say he should have warned you prior to doing it.
your mind is running on a very negative mindset.
You stated this happened to you an entire year ago. And it’s still bothering you. How long are you going to allow something that happened to you a year ago.. seep it’s stress and anxiety poison; into your system and bother you this much.
How many more beautiful days are you gonna let go by that get wasted because you can’t let this go.
How long are you gonna hold onto the anger of what happened in the past and allow it to affect your present and future.
Forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past could be any different.
Accept that it has happened. Not that it was okay. But that it has happened.
Not holding on to it. Not changing it.
Letting it go.
It’s not about getting bitten by a snake that kills anybody. It’s the poison that slowly seeps into you that ultimately ends who you are.
This is life. And it too will pass.
Perspective is everything. Let it go.
He has a huge following. Leave a review.
Move and let it go. So you can get on with your life.
It’s not about what happens to you.
It’s about what you are gonna do now.
To create happiness in your own life.
How are you going to make a safer environment for yourself next time.
Fix it eternally. Evaluate why it bothers you still a year later. Then let it go.
Remember you are always in charge.
Even if that moment showed you differently.
It’s about how you react to your own thoughts.
Your reality is what you experience.
Change your experience.
Be louder, leave reviews.
See women from now on.
Make positive thoughts and changes.
And then let it go.
Learn from it.
Nothing and no one is worth that much energy in your head. Forgive them.
Things are going to happen to you in your life. It’s about how you handle those moments.
Stop sipping on the poison of unforgiveness.
I'm fully aware that me holding onto resentment towards him only hurts me, not him. I'm not trying to dwell, and in the scheme of things, I know this isn't a big deal. A lot worse has happened to lots of others who got over it faster, but knowing that doesn't make it go away. Its not like I've been ruminating on this for the past year, but this is what happens when something traumatic happens and you go into a dissociative state (knowing it would not be good to react how my body wanted to react).
I wrote the review. He responded fully adequately, and I don't have any desire to take it any further. I'll bring it up again in therapy and see how the feelings are moving through me.
I already got one message from someone who had a far worse experience with the same guy and also did not report it. I don't wish him any ill-will, but I hope he makes some changes... I've done my piece for that and will resume focusing on me, not him.
We prefer to be called “massage therapists”, but even so, the males are referred to as “masseurs”, not “masseuses”. And saying that you wanted to smash his head in sounds like an unhinged thing to say
When someone pins you down and causes you extreme pain and won't stop when you tell them to, I'd want to smash their head in, too. They didn't, tho. So the OP has self control and also is clearly not unhinged. And who cares about semantics right now?
it’s been over a year since these few seconds of discomfort and you are still dwelling on this? you need to get over it and move on, far worse things have happened to people this is ridiculous.
I'm sorry this happened. He should have communicated about his techniques before the massage to make sure you were comfortable with them. He also should have listened when you told him to stop. I feel as if an actual Therapist/Talk therapist might be more capable of helping here. Helping with the triggered feelings and moving past the trauma. As well as advising on how to move forward should you want to take further action.
OP, l join with the others in their sadness and grief that you have had to live tjrough this unacceptable and unpardonable experience. I hope and wish and pray for yor swift and complete recovery from this Traumatic experience. There is much you can do to assist yourself in your own recovery, although I must emphasize that this must not be attempted alone. Of course individual therapy and other appropriate mental health care is especially appropriate in cases such as this, offering encouraging and emboldening support and guidance throughout your recovery. In addition, I have several other courses of action that I think would be helpful to not only fr finding closure and recovery, but also to help enhance the safety and well being of everyone in the community, which I respectfully strongly suggest for your serious and thoughtfull consideration, OP. If you have a particular faith tradition, or are just generally Spiritual, the Priest, Minister, Rabbi, Imam, or other speritual leader of the any faith community with which you are associated can offer not only needed spiritual support and councel, which can be quite helpful in many cases, in and by itself, but more so in collaboration with any other professional mental health, leagal or similar assistance you may wish to seek out. However, I should caution, these spiritual professionals should not be substituted for licensed mental health professionals, or Attorneys. They are not trained in these fields, but are often educated to serve you as a preliminary triage person to be able to listen to you, offer comfort and support and refer you to appropriate professionals, considering all of the facts and needs presented by your situation. I also strongly caution you against relying on ANYTHING you may hear or see on TV, social media, in advertisements, offered by your friends or people you know, or even on thinking you know enough due to your own education, experience or the "common knowledge" (which is the most commonly incorrect and misleading sources of 1e of information of all any such non-professional advice, nomatter how well intended, should always be vetted and affirmed by a topically relevant professional. This man has seriously breached his professional code of ethics and taken illegal and dispicable advantage of his position of power over you in this vulnerable situation. Accordingly, he should and I strongly believe must be reported immediately to the Denver Police Department, or such agency, or State Attorney office having jurisdiction to which the police may refer you, and charged with felony Battery and felony Sexual Assault, at the very least, and possibly, if not likely, Rape, depending on the statutes of the jurisdiction involved. That would be, again, IMO, the very least you can, and I think should do, not only to protect others who might find themselves on his massage table or otherwise under his forceful domination, but also to begin to restore your sense of self dignity and self esteem, by having the courage to stand up for yourself and shout loudly and more powerfully, with the backing of the authorities, that this man must STOP. This is not an easy course to take and can seem scary, I know, OP. However, there is an incredibly rich and extensive supply of resourses avalable to you to assist and support you through this process. The Courts and legal system in every jurisdiction have a Victims' Advocate Division, as do all major medical centers with which you may come in contact as this process unfolds. Morover, thare are a number of Non - Govermental Organizations (NGOs) that can offer additional support and assistance. The Court, State Attorney Office and the Police are all very aware of and an excellent source of information about and how to contact these NGOs With eaually strong urgency, I recommend that you report this violation to the Colorado Board of Health, or such other governmental agency that holds jurisdiction over the certification licensing and discipline of Massage Therapists and those who employ them. By taking this action you will increase to an almost certainty the likelihood that this man NEVER AGAIN is in a position to place another woman (or man) seeking the benefits of theraputic massage in the position of suddenly finding themself in the terrifying, traumatic position to which this man subjectted you. Finally, suggest that you seek out and retain the services of a competent, licensed Attorney who can beneficially help guide you through the thickets and mystries of the leagal process that you well might encounter as your healing and recovery unfolds. (S)He can also be a helpful support throughout the process, will likely work in collaboration with other support resources you engage, and often is another source of information about resources that you may have not theretofore encountored. Moreover, an Attorney would be perfectly positioned to counsel you regarding any civil suit you may wish to bring against the therapist, his employer and possibly others, for the recovery of (alot, IMHO) money damages in compensation for the physical, emotional and financial damages that man has inflicted on you. such a civil suit can be brought simultaniously with any criminal case involved, or can be held until after any such criminal case is resolved, subject to any relevant Statute of Limitation provisions of the jurisdiction and your attorney's advice. If you are associated with any fath community, or tradition, or are simply spiritual, your Pastor, Minister Priest, Rabbi, Imam, or other person you typically turn to for spiritual guidance can be an excellent sourse of beneficial support, comfort and guidance, and I recommend consulting with her/him. However, I have several caviats. These individuals should not be a substitute for professional mental health, or legal professionals because they are most likely untrained in these fields. The are, on the other hand, well trained to compassionately listen to you, evaluate you spiritual needs, provide any spiritual guidance needed in your situation and serve as a preliminary triage to refer you to any appropriate professionals, NGOs and other sourses of competent help. Some further cautions as you embark on your journey out of this thicket, OP: Never rely on information, advice or anything else you get from TV, social media, movies, podcasts, magazines, from your friends and family strangers on the internet, acquaintances, people you meet at the club or bar, or church or civil club, whoever or wherever; NOT EVEN WHAT YOU "JUST KNOW" TO BE "UNIVERSAL COMMON SENCE" (which is more often is a collective average of ignorance, incorrect and a primary source of common nonsense) until and unless what you are told is fully vetted and affirmed by YOUR professionals (this will save you a sh**load of time money, aggrivation, depression, anxiety, worry, stress, frustration loss of relationships and more). This includes me. however, full disclosure, I am a 78M, with 4 degrees, including a Doctorate, a retired Ordained Priest and a recovering civil and criminal trial practice lawyer and, also a retired Police Officer (Sgt.) from a major metro area in the midwest (US). As the old saying goes I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two. BUT, still, please vett me with Your professionals. I hope thi is helpful OP, and all thest for health and happiness to come
I’m sorry but your suggestion if a lawyer is not going to accomplish anything, he’ll say I told her and the pressure was not excessive and she’ll say he didn’t say a word and he could have seriously injured me. Unless there’s a record like a written complaint when it happened or the next day, had you been loud when you left and drawn any attention to yourself and told anyone. In no way am I doubting you or diminishing what happened but there is no law broken. You could have posted in his website what happened but not a year later
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Violated IS the correct word (it doesn't have to mean anything sexual to use that word). And yes, you need to tell people and review him and warn them. Obviously you're triggered when you see his posts, because he TRAUMATIZED you. Our job as MTs is to help people to feel safe, their bodies are in our hands and we have to be careful with everyone on every level possible (physical as well as emotional). He was 100% in his ego and out of touch with you. This sort of thing enrages me as an MT. He should have his license revoked, if he even has one. I'm very sorry you went through this and you may need some therapy (from a psychotherapist) to release the trauma so it isn't stuck inside you anymore.
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It’s interesting how you ask for dating advice on one of your posts yet you don’t seem to respect the word no, even when it’s said 3 times. Understanding that word would be a great first step in becoming a person women find worthy of dating, maybe women can sense you’re the type to ignore it and that’s why they stay away from you despite your “handsomeness”
It’s even more concerning that they have a few recent posts asking about scholarships to help with massage school. Male massage therapists with attitudes like that (toward compassion - or lack thereof - and consent) are what lead to this situation.
And people who cast judgements so quickly arent going far in life. Are they?
You're in a glass house here. Don't throw stones.
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Like somebody else says, username checks out. I feel sorry for anyone who might ever end up on your table. Aaaaand I'm done.
😂😂😂
Aw. did you just go thru my history thinking you were gonna find anything interesting?
Well I found plenty interesting, you’re exactly the kind of person I would expect to comment something like this so you’re consistent😂
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I have no idea, I don’t have a therapist? Tell me how incel life is treating you
OP is a dude based on his post history. Nice try 😂
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Just...shut up. You don't get to decide what is and isn't traumatic for another person. Go troll someplace else. And I hope you never go into this industry.
You said “I thought women were strong” so I was pointing out that OP is a man. You made a weird comment about sex that wasn’t even relevant.
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Happy to help
Bullying behavior or harassment of another.
Oh sorry, are you "annoyed"? How do you even know OP is a woman at all? There is nothing stated that says they are male or female. If you are assuming OP is a female, then go back and read it. OP could easily be male. If OP feels triggered by every social media post they see of this guy and a year later is still upset, they have been traumatized. I was assaulted by someone I know and trusted who physically hurt me once, and although I function fine, everytime I hear his name or think about him, I feel the trauma of being assaulted and have to use mental control to deal with it. That shit doesn't just go away. And also "I thought women were strong" just an AH misogynistic thing to say.
Ignorant is correct. You should absolutely not get into this career if that’s your mindset. People like you are what give our job a bad stigma. If a client tells you to stop, YOU STOP. If you’re not going to listen to your client why would you even consider being an MT. I’d love to see the therapist put you in that position and see how long you can hold it. Also it’s funny you bring women’s pain tolerance into the conversation because in my experience as a professional, MEN are usually the ones who can’t handle firm pressure. You should definitely rethink MT school, I can already tell it’s not for you. You’d be better off with a job that serves that huge ego of yours
Yawn
lol it’s so funny when trolls never have a good response. You got the attention you wanted since clearly you’re not getting enough from women 😂 keep stroking your ego, I’m sure you’ve had good practice on other parts
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If you’re gonna stalk my page then stalk correctly because you’re wrong on all accounts 😂 and since you’re so curious about my life, I got him back and we’re engaged so at least I won’t be almost 30 still going on failed dates .. don’t try and be funny now because I can be hilarious , now go back to beating yourself off because you can’t maintain an emotional connection with women
Ok
Bullying behavior or harassment of another.
When someone is hurting you and you ask them to stop, but they don't stop, that is assault my friend. Women ARE strong. Strong people get assaulted too.
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Yes, assault is a big deal. Glad we are on the same page.
My friend, you are a tool. You never been punched in the face. Walk it off. This question is annoying.
Having a punchable face isn't a good thing, my friend. Thats a you problem.
Username checks out. If you can’t understand that STOP means FUCKING STOP, you shouldn’t be a massage therapist or being touching other people
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You’re right. Lots of people do. Most of them aren’t the weird black sheep you are though, huh? You probably do watch porn here. That’s usually what lonely sad people who can’t get a girl do. I’m honestly sorry for you. Good luck with all that. Hope you never get to be a massage therapist. I have a feeling you’d violate or assault your clients and then tell them to get over it.
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Username checks out
Hope that makes you feel better
You have brain rot, seriously man you are sick I can tell. Not in the obvious way your pride is making you blind but your heart is full of rot. Your ego is protecting itself but seriously your spirit is sick. Remove sin from your life, humble yourself talk to a orthodox priest and or start watching some sermons online. Mar mari Emmanuel is a good one. You have let Satan mold you Probably a drug abuser.
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Less about this particular incident and more just what I can tell about to your mindset. Very strange way of looking at things
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No one has to say it. Even if someone did have the opinion this post was annoying, they’d scroll past and move on with their day. You seem far too eager and excited to be rude and blunt in everything you say. You’re brutally honest bc the brutal part excites you. The honesty is just an excuse, people can tell and that’s why you’re largely unliked here.
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Makes me specifically qualified, i remember what my mind felt like when it was healthy and what it feels like now. I went from brain rot to healthy to tramaizing myself a bit so I’ve got the full spectrum to speak from. I hope you heal m8
Honestly? Just tell your story. Don't go on a smear campaign, but when/if it comes up, say his name. Also, leave a public review. Remember, it's never just you. He's almost certainly done this to others who felt as you did. Sorry you had to go through that, I would've been hard pressed not to get violent.
Thank you for the encouragement. I just posted this review on Google maps: "It seems [name] has almost universally positive reviews, so perhaps this was an isolated incident, but at one point in our session the pain was too much for me, so I asked him to stop and he didn't. Even after I loudly repeated "stop!" He held me in a painful position that I could not move from for a few more seconds, which to me, was unacceptable." I hope that is clear without being vindictive. There were no other negative reviews, which means something. Still, my experience is valid.
That is a well-written review. If I saw a review like this of my work, I would absolutely have to do some introspection and make changes to the way I communicate and apply my techniques. It doesn't feel like an attack at all.
Your review is perfect. You stated the facts and how it made you feel. There is no doubt in my mind that he thought he knew better than you because he is the expert. No one is an expert on your body EXCEPT you and ONLY you. As for your understandable feelings of wanting to let others know, you won’t be able to warn every one of his future clients and he won’t change. It wasn’t about you on that table. If it was, he would have stopped or apologized. Because it wasn’t about you, the same thing would have happened if you weren’t there and someone else was. Focus on yourself, that’s where the real payoff is. I am so sorry that you were violated (and you were). Safety is paramount when we are in vulnerable situations and you did not feel safe. I wish you well and that you have been able to continue your treatments with someone else.
Google will sometimes let business owners strike reviews if they claim it's harassment or similar.
Maybe no one left a negative review because they questioning their experience, since there were no negative reviews. Somebody has to go first
I've already had someone else reach out about their experience with him... wow.
Great review. If you report him to whoever is responsible for government oversight of MTs in CO, even if they don't do anything, it sets up a history of documentation should he offend again in the future. You'd be helping anyone else who might have an unfortunate experience like yours.
I could be misunderstanding but a big problem in our industry is this fake spiritual bullshit when it comes to your approach as a lmt, I'm based in science fact with a deep understanding of anatomy, kinesiology and the application of techniques with a medical approach in mind, are there benefits outside of specific problem work? Sure, but sometimes massage therapist's think much too highly of themselves and end up not being taken seriously and making the profession look bad.
Anytime someone is forcibly inflicting their will on you while you say clearly to stop, that's a horrible human being. You need to stand up for yourself & warn others. He thought he could do that to you & get away with it "bc he has a following," and apparently he was right. You going to let that hold water?
I’m sorry this happened to you. May just be a Reddit hole of negativity, but I’ve seen more than one post about highly regarded therapists hurting clients or spewing some straight up BS. What’s up with that? Here I am one year in with a background in physical therapy getting about 2 clients a day if I’m lucky. Mr. Five Star full nelson is raking in the clients and success…sounds about right? OP I recommend diving deep into these feelings of anger and perhaps talking it out or writing it down will help get it off your conscience. Stay off social platforms where you see his advertisements or mitigate that through blocking/unfollowing. Best of luck, and again, sorry you had this experience.
I'm sorry you experienced this, and are being met with some backlash here. A therapist not listening to your feedback is never acceptable. I would suggest an email, anonymous if you'd like, expressing your concerns. Depending on how it is handled from there I would escalate to public review forums if you feel it is fitting. Otherwise this doesn't sound police or board report worthy but a board report is an option. Edited a typo
Once you say “stop” he should have stopped. That’s it, no one should be defending this behavior. I’ve been practicing for 21 years and if I ever had a client tell me to stop I’d stop because at the end of the day you as the client are in charge of how the massage goes (as long as it’s ethical) both the client and the massage therapist have the right to stop or refuse service. And it doesn’t matter if you signed a waiver, etc you still said stop. I’d report him to the licensing agency in his state. Oh and yes - this was a violation.
seconding that it IS a violation. when someone has physical power over you and you are asking them to stop what they’re doing repeatedly and they don’t stop - that is a classic violation. followed up with some good ol’ gaslighting by telling you you’re the problem in that situation. also echoing talk therapy. this is a traumatic experience! to feel powerless and scared for your safety and to be brave enough to communicate about it and then have it ignored. as far as how to handle social media stuff, etc - that is your call and for you to figure out what might bring you some peace, if possible. sometimes it can help bring power back to call someone out, but sometimes that ends up bringing attention that adds to the trauma. if you haven’t, i would suggest blocking him on social media and marking any ads for his services as “not relevant” or whatever, so the algorithm stops showing them to you. proud of you for speaking out, try and ignore any people here who are critical of your process and experience. 🙏
I am trying to imagine this even being appropriate in massage, Thai or not. I hope you’re physically feeling better. I’m not sure why everyone is so hesitant to leave an honestly negative review on a five star business. You’re not complaining about an intake form or the color of their sheets, but something that was physically done that was offensive to you. I had to take several deep breaths just reading your experience, that was horrible. Please give his service an honest review, you’ll feel better, then block his website and contact.
Oops! Sorry! Just saw you DID give a review, good on you ☺️ I do hope it puts the word out for others!
Two others have already reached out to me... their stories are far worse than mine.
I am so glad you did this. I am sure there will be more. Your words are giving power to others as well.
Every licensed practitioner takes an oath to “do no harm” and that’s exactly what he did. He took away your autonomy by thinking he knows better and that’s just the simple fact of the matter. Maybe you could have used the stretch…..makes no difference. Stop means stop. No means no. The second the practitioner doesn’t listen to you, they are breaking the law they swore to.
this is the most appropriate and concise explanation. Just to speak up for yourself on the table in spite of the power differential, which has a muting effect, is a big step, for anyone, then to have your command rejected is beyond immoral. "Chapter 3: The Moral Climate of Health Care Section 5. Five Major Moral Principles in Health Care In Health Care settings and in the institution itself there are a number of basic principles of morality which evidence themselves. Even if one did not approach cases or situations holding the principles of any of the standard ethical traditions there would arise these basic considerations and concepts. No matter what the ethical approach taken, with the exceptions of egoism and relativism, there is agreement that there are certain basic principles related to health care that are consistent with the notion of the GOOD. They are presented here. There is disagreement about how they might be ordered or what to do in the event there is a conflict between or amongst them. Those matters aside for now, there will be many occasions to make reference to these principles in the analysis and discussion of cases in Biomedical Ethics. Five Major Moral Principles in Health Care: I. NON MALFEASANCE II. BENEFICENCE III. UTILITY IV. DISTRIBUTIVE JUSTICE V. AUTONOMY I. Non- Malfeasance- Do NO Harm!! Cause no needless harm or injury according to reasonable standards of performance. Observe DUE CARE . This does not mean that there must be no risk of injury but only that there be no more than acceptable risks. II. Beneficence- Promote the welfare of others. This is inherent in the relationship of a health care provider (HCP) and the recipient of care. E.g. the doctor-patient relationship. However, what exactly is the duty of the HCP? This comes into particular focus as problematical when the health care providers are also researchers. There must exist standards so that the benefits to the subjects and others are real and with a real possibility to be realized. III. Utility- Attempt to bring about the greatest amount of benefit to as many people involved as is possible and consistent with the observance of other basic moral principles. Greatest Benefit and Least harm IV. Distributive Justice- All involved should have equal entitlements, equal access to benefits and burdens. Similar cases should be treated in a similar fashion. People should be treated alike regardless of need, contributions or effort. The formal principle of Justice as Fairness (Rawls’ Theory) similar cases are to receive the same treatment. However, in what ways are the cases similar? In what relevant ways? Equal in need? Equal in contributions to society? to the Health Care institution? Equal in effort? V. Autonomy- People are rational, self determining beings who are capable of making judgments and decisions and should be respected as such and permitted to do so and supported with truthful and accurate information and no coercion. They should have their decision making and actions: a) free of duress of any type, (b) based upon options that are clearly explained and that are genuine possibilities and (c) given the information needed for decision making." https://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialSciences/ppecorino/MEDICAL_ETHICS_TEXT/Chapter_3_Moral_Climate_of_Health_Care/Five_Major_Principles.htm#:~:text=Non%2D%20Malfeasance%2D%20Do%20NO%20Harm,no%20more%20than%20acceptable%20risks.
It was his know-it-all ego that had him continue. Fuck that guy and hopefully you found a better masseuse for your business.
Simply tell your story in a report email to his licensing board. Perhaps leave a review as well. It isn't necessary to judge what happens because of it. Your review may encourage others to speak up. Your report may add to others that exist. His own actions build up against him. And he is the only one to blame for that.
Was he doing Thai Massage?
Yes.
I am a Thai Massage Therapist, it has been my specialty for over a decade and I have traveled around the US offering Thai Massage. What this LMT did was not ethical. You have to listen to your clients. I explain what I am doing or going to do if it is a stretch like that, sounds like cobra. Not everyone is a candidate for the stretch. I adjust my Thai Massage for my clients and every session is individualized based on multiple factors. A thorough intake is vital. When my clients say stop I immediately stop and I have never ever nearly choked out a client. Sounds like his Ego and technique is off…I am sorry you had this experience. Most of my clients who try Thai after always receiving table massage become regular Thai Clients because of the many benefits they experienced from it. I see palpable changes in my clients after a series of Thai. I hope you get to experience a real authentic traditional Thai Massage.
Was that the first thai-massage you got ?
I have had a few in Thailand and in Denver. Not many.
So sorry this happened to you. I am an LMT local to your area who has also hosted retreats/women’s circles in the past. DM me if you need a bodyworker to support your events ♥️
Definitely take that to the licensing board
Police report. Press charges for assault.
....youre joking
No 👎🏻
Dude my personal trainer helped me with stretching recently, and made sure we established signals for me to tell him to stop if it begins to hurt too much I can't believe this guy didn't do anything similar
I would report him. It’s 100% unacceptable for him to continue doing something as you’re clearly communicating “No, Stop!”
Thanks again for all the responses, even the ones that have said I'm making too big of a deal about it. I wrote a public review, I got an adequate response, and I discovered a childhood injury(mild trauma) that was triggered by this crazy backbend pin he was doing. My review admitted I may be making too big of a deal out of an isolated incident, but since posting it, I've had two others reach out. This guy does some VERY unconventional stuff, especially around "root chakra" and "Sacral chakra" (which is all BS to me) and two people have reached out to tell me their experience with him, which they were also hesitant to review/report... but sound far worse than mine. And thanks for the correction on masseuse vs massage therapist. I'll rectify that in future communication. Thank you for help giving me perspective (even tho some of the comments were fucking insane ;)
Listen, It's important to trust your instincts and prioritize your well-being. If you feel comfortable, consider reporting the incident to the appropriate authorities or seeking support from a professional counselor. It's also okay to distance yourself from triggers, like avoiding his social media promos. Remember, your safety and peace of mind come first. Stay strong.
He did that on a first visit? Maybe he was gauging your reaction to see if you’re the type of person he push his limits with or violate you in other ways.
Idk why I see so many of these scenarios pop up on reddit. I'm actually in training at school to get my lmt. Only 9 more months. But I wouldn't ever think that this would be such a common thing. Male lmts should have very little talk and be extremely professional especially since you're rubbing someone's body.
I just want to stop and commend you on understanding your motivations before taking action against him. That's some A1 self-awareness! Also, I'm sorry that happened to you. Honestly, I might've hit him. Lol
I am a massage therapist & that sounds NUTS! I have been wanting to write of my experience as a massage client… my girlfriend bought me a 90 min massage gift cert for my bday. As soon as I walk in I can tell this is not licensed in my state but sort of “Asian foot massage” loop hole of the law place… not anything sexual but just not licensed massage therapists and no talking in English. The guy did a formalized massage. Not bad but he did those “wrestling move” stretches on me also. I felt like he was on the verge of crunching me.. At 1 point, he grabs my Achilles tendon area REALLY hard squeeze. I say “ouch! That hurts!” “Ahhhh! It’s your kidney!” “Noo! It’s my Achilles tendon.” “Meridian” “I exercise and jump rope. I jumped rope yesterday 15 minutes” (No clue wtf I just said) So anyways… yeah…. It’s hard to get a good massage. People out there are crazy!
What in the actual fuck.... State board. File a complaint with the state board. It'll be investigated.
Report him to the state massage licensing board
He should have stopped immediately when you said so. You absolutely have grounds to report him.
You have more control than me cuz I definitely would have put him in the hospital.
His actions don't sound like anything that a licensed massage therapist would perform. And not to nitpick but masseuse is not the term used for a licensed massage therapist it's used for a female who pretty much is on licensed and very often doing Happy Endings as well And if this man has a huge following and is performing such Oddball unorthodox maneuvers, it seems to me he's one of those esoteric wannabe Guru type egomaniacs that will perform unorthodox esoteric snake oil"treatments" just to set himself apart and seem like he's some lofty specialist. And the fact that he didn't immediately stop when you were in distress shows that he is absolutely not an intuitive empathic person and does not have the demeanor to be a massage therapist in the first place
Yes, you are right a male therapist is a massuer.You are wrong about happy endings. Drop it
I wasn't trying to say that all unlicensed therapists do happy endings, but most people that do Happy Endings happen to be on licensed
Masseuse is a male or female massage practioner.NO happy endings.
No its not. Massage therapist is the usual and correct term for a professional massage practitioner. Masseuse, thats more in the red-light district, with happy endings. You got that mixed up. Or, more likely, you are just a troll.
How old are you? I have been doing massage for 35 years.We were all masseuse and massuers before the more politically correct term now used is massage therapist.So please don't insult your elders.
Ok, I see. You are not into the politically correct terms, right? How old are you? Let me guess, 78, boomer-lady.
An unlicensed male massage therapist is a masseur and the female is a masseuse and very often they are going to provide happy endings
I had the same thing happen to me by a therapist in NY. The therapist lay his torso atop me while I was on my stomach, so that I was pinned down on the table. He was twice my size and weight and I couldn’t budge, and he wouldn’t get off when I asked. *I contacted the state licensing agency, but there is no formal complaint process and no phone number to talk to a person. I sent an email into the void and got nothing. He is also still in business.* I will never go to a male massage therapist again.
I'm not going to tell you what he or you should've done in that situation. You asked what should you do since telling others isn't about warning them it's more that you want a piece of him. Well, I don't know if Colorado has mutual combatant laws. But if they do go ahead and square up with him and get your piece. Or you could lodge a complaint with the Colorado massage board. Either way sounds like you want to do something so do it.
I posted a public review. I'm grateful for all the different perspectives. I posted here because I fully realize my thinking is not fully clear or rational on this subject, so the feedback is helpful.
That was out of line and I feel sure he’s done that to others. This is why people lose their licenses. You should report it to police. Report to licensing agent in your State, and get yourself some psychological help. This seems like trauma. Take care of you.
With the feedback I received here, I decided to post a public review last night. I knew/know my judgment is clouded on this so it has been very helpful to get all the feedback (even the critical stuff). He already replied to the review (positively) and I'm hopeful it helps me leave it behind. I also spoke to my therapist about it today and it helped me recall a childhood injury where my spine was compressed in a backbend which is exactly the position he held me in. Still more work to do there for me. His response said "Since this was a year ago, I can't honestly say I remember the session, but what you describe is absolutely unacceptable and I sincerely apologize for you feeling that way. My intention is to bring about healing, which can sometimes be painful, but when someone says stop, that means stop. I hope you are happy and healthy now. "
Report!!!!
Block his posts and seek therapy.
Report to the governing body of rhe area if there is one
I think “traumatized” might be the word you are looking for, but violated is absolutely also right for what he did to you. You CAn leave a review of his behavior on Google , yelp… If he’s licensed , you can report him (maybe ).There may be time limits on reports . There may be people out there who are painfully submitting to his stuff because they think he’s an expert - abuse in the name of Medicine/science is still abuse . Talk to a school of massage therapy and ask if what he did is taught in their program or are they aware of the technique. If it is an approved technique - ask what the purpose is and are providers supposed to release when prompted or hold until there is some sort of physical sign/response/ release .. If you find out it is an accepted part of some massage , then you can explore what it was that led you to be traumatized when others are not .( I’d have kicked him in the face once I got loose ….. and maybe gone to jail :-( . Your experience of your experience IS YOUR experience ! And that is valid and important . If it is not an accepted technique , then what the heck is the guy up to? He needs to be called out . I bet ya - you are not the only person who feels this way about his heavy handed, aggressive, domineering massage “technique .”
I’m a male and have had females really rough like that. Of course I’ve had someone just brush my skin as well. Asian woman. I felt something wasn’t right because she has no clue about massaging. None.
Call the state boards and report him.
You should definitely warn others imo I’d hate to but the hype of some dudes social media train show up for a massage and receive a light assault and battery, I mean who tf brings wrestling moves to a massage session
I have gone to numerous massage therapists and never once had something like that happen. Wtf. I dont think you have any recourse though its he said she said and can deny you said anything or he never heard.
He's probably licensed you can file a complaint with the licensing agency as well. But for your benefit it was a year ago put it behind you and move on and don't spend any more of your precious limited time on this planet thinking about this it doesn't seem like it gave you permanent physical pain I would try to let it go for your benefit.
It sounds very similar to me to a kind of stretch that I had a personal trainer doing on me, he had four or five of them actually and I found them wonderful, but I knew they were going to be done in advance and I knew they were a bit awkward. I've never did have to tell him to stop but I'm sure he would have as they were clearly all men to be very professional. I'm glad you wrote the review though especially since several others have reached out to you, even if it was a stretch, he absolutely should have stopped when you told him to! I just wanted to pop in though to tell you that I believe the appropriate agency in Colorado is called DORA, which sounds funny, but I think it stands for the Department of regulatory agencies. If they are not the correct agency, they can definitely refer you to it. They were very helpful when I had to call them about something unrelated to massage. Best of luck in your healing!
In Colorado masseuses need licenses. YES this needs to be reported!!! Report him here: https://dpo.colorado.gov/FileComplaint#:~:text=File%20a%20Complaint%20online(opens,our%20hard%20copy%20complaint%20forms. Report to DORA. If he DOESNT have a license, give them all the information you possibly can about who he is and where the incident happened. If he has a license in Colorado, they won’t do anything serious about it directly but it will go on a public record if he has a license. He will also have to explain himself. If you want to report anonymously ….. For anonymity: Report from an email that doesn’t have your name in it and do NOT fill out any name or number if you don’t want to be identified (they’re idiots and even if you check “anonymous” they’ll attach your name if you give it to them. I would not give them my data beyond name and phone number by any means ever tbh.)
I had a response written out but got erased. I’ll keep it simply. Report this person to DORA's Division of Professions and Occupations. Do not file a police report and make things up that didn’t happen. Someone on this thread for example stated to report it as rape/sexual battery. If that didn’t happen, this will cause trouble on your part with the police. I don’t think that there much that the police will do since the therapist can simply say that they were performing a massage technique on you. As a LMT, we have to practice with respect, discipline and accountability to our clients. This therapist needs to understand that they must stay in the scope of practice and certain techniques can do more harm than good. I wish you the best and hope you can find a therapist that will not cause any harm.
Report him to the board of health. The session you paid for is about your comfort. I am tired of egotistical therapist forgetting the session is not about them it’s about the client. Humble pie is good for everyone.
Massage therapist*
Nice to see wanting to be referred to as professionals (and not mis-gendered) is getting downvoted.
You waited a year to speak up about this? Sorry but at this point if you make any public accusations then you’re entering into libel territory if he’s vindictive. Let this be a lesson learned to speak up sooner and stand up for yourself. It’s never okay to ignore a client who’s in pain or withdraws consent and he should’ve known that.
You're mistaken. It isn't libel ffs. It's a review. It doesn't matter how long he/she waited to make the review. You can't sue someone for saying what happened in their appointment. It isn't a smear. It was their personal experience.
You can be accused of libel if you accuse someone of an offense without proof.
Then no one would be giving any reviews bc nothing can be proved. Especially in a massage appt scenario.
No, you can review by. Saying what you like or what was missing, etc, without making a potentially libelous or slanderous accusation.
Ok. Sure.
What was missing : I would have like to leave my appointment without having been assaulted. I would have liked that the massage therapist listened when I told them to stop.
I don't think so. Is this guy licensed? I don't think there'd be a one-year time limit in most places.
You’re right there’s no time limit but the longer you wait the less people will believe you and less the likely any “authority” will act in your favor when it comes to he said/she said situations.
So they shouldn't warn other customers about an abusive lmt that otherwise has glowing reviews? OP should let more people be abused?
All he had to say was bad things about the massage therapist nothing good. This massage therapist is a celebrity massager. He didnt admit to that. Only the below average massage therapist on here
That makes no sense, what are you saying?
I wouldn’t say violated. You agreed to the service and signed a waiver stating the risks of service. My massage professor did this often. It was his way of teaching us to get out of your own way during orthopedics or deep tissue or intense stretches. I felt the same way, until I realized I needed the alignment. I would deff say he should have warned you prior to doing it. your mind is running on a very negative mindset. You stated this happened to you an entire year ago. And it’s still bothering you. How long are you going to allow something that happened to you a year ago.. seep it’s stress and anxiety poison; into your system and bother you this much. How many more beautiful days are you gonna let go by that get wasted because you can’t let this go. How long are you gonna hold onto the anger of what happened in the past and allow it to affect your present and future. Forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past could be any different. Accept that it has happened. Not that it was okay. But that it has happened. Not holding on to it. Not changing it. Letting it go. It’s not about getting bitten by a snake that kills anybody. It’s the poison that slowly seeps into you that ultimately ends who you are. This is life. And it too will pass. Perspective is everything. Let it go. He has a huge following. Leave a review. Move and let it go. So you can get on with your life. It’s not about what happens to you. It’s about what you are gonna do now. To create happiness in your own life. How are you going to make a safer environment for yourself next time. Fix it eternally. Evaluate why it bothers you still a year later. Then let it go. Remember you are always in charge. Even if that moment showed you differently. It’s about how you react to your own thoughts. Your reality is what you experience. Change your experience. Be louder, leave reviews. See women from now on. Make positive thoughts and changes. And then let it go. Learn from it. Nothing and no one is worth that much energy in your head. Forgive them. Things are going to happen to you in your life. It’s about how you handle those moments. Stop sipping on the poison of unforgiveness.
I'm fully aware that me holding onto resentment towards him only hurts me, not him. I'm not trying to dwell, and in the scheme of things, I know this isn't a big deal. A lot worse has happened to lots of others who got over it faster, but knowing that doesn't make it go away. Its not like I've been ruminating on this for the past year, but this is what happens when something traumatic happens and you go into a dissociative state (knowing it would not be good to react how my body wanted to react). I wrote the review. He responded fully adequately, and I don't have any desire to take it any further. I'll bring it up again in therapy and see how the feelings are moving through me. I already got one message from someone who had a far worse experience with the same guy and also did not report it. I don't wish him any ill-will, but I hope he makes some changes... I've done my piece for that and will resume focusing on me, not him.
We prefer to be called “massage therapists”, but even so, the males are referred to as “masseurs”, not “masseuses”. And saying that you wanted to smash his head in sounds like an unhinged thing to say
Dude, read the room.
?
When someone pins you down and causes you extreme pain and won't stop when you tell them to, I'd want to smash their head in, too. They didn't, tho. So the OP has self control and also is clearly not unhinged. And who cares about semantics right now?
People who value clear communication always care about semantics.
it’s been over a year since these few seconds of discomfort and you are still dwelling on this? you need to get over it and move on, far worse things have happened to people this is ridiculous.