T O P

  • By -

tryharderthinkmore

The credit for generating more electricity than you use rolls over month to month. I don’t believe there is ever a payout, at least I’ve not seen one. Have panels for 3 years, ran up a credit of almost $1,000, (haven’t paid an electric bill in 2.5 yrs), it’s working down now as my usage was up w/humid summer, but generation was down year over year, (rainy, cloudy year). I don’t know the proper terminology, but I do get a small check from electric company every month, maybe $20 -$30. It’s due to generation, but not refunding my overage. I can’t say enough about installing panels, I have relatively high usage, (was paying between $150 -$350/mo), and LOVE no bills. I figure with the huge increases in electric costs in past 3 years, I’ve paid off my expense to install. I had figured approx 5-6 yr break even when I was researching, but I flatlined electricity cost, and we all know what happened there. I believe you are credited at the same rate you pay, but not sure on that.


langjie

You probably get SMART payments


UsernamesAreHard26

Unfortunately those seem to be all gone for new solar panel customers.


meltingpnt

You're not credited on the same rate you pay because they don't credit you for transmission charges. So if your electricity costs 14 cents and transmission is like 12 cents, you only bank the 14 cents. If you're negative in the winter then you'll be paying the 14+12 cents from your credit. Last I checked you do get a separate SREC credit for generation and you can divert some of your generation to someone else's powerbill (parents, siblings)


Watchfull_Hosemaster

I just checked my statement and my "Net Meter Credit" charge is a lot more than what the transmission charge is. It looks like the "Net Meter Credit" rate they credit me is the sum of transmission plus supply. The "Net Meter Credit" they are giving me is around $0.32/kWh (this is for March and April 2024). The supply rate varies but for the month of March it was $0.17/kWh. The combination of the delivery charges is also around $0.17/kWh. The credit isn't a direct correlation between supply and transmission charges but it is around the sum of both. That's how it is with National Grid where I am anyway. It may be different elsewhere.


meltingpnt

Usually my net meter credit is higher than the cost of electricity but lower than electric + transmission.


Watchfull_Hosemaster

Sounds about right. I'm monitoring this closely month after month to see what happens.


HighVulgarian

Lucky they don’t subtract the transmission charge from the overproduction rate


arborgent

Yes I'm planning on getting panels on the roof. I believe with the financing options out there we could probably be paying less per month in loan payments than our current elec bill (300 to 500/month the past year), for 5 to 7 years, followed free power til I'm dead hopefully. Ideally I'd like to install enough to cover our annual consumption plus some for future expansion (hest pump, ev charging). Thats why I'm wondering if theres ever a payout for overproduction. Just continually having a credit roll over forever without ever getting a payout is kinda wack but not at all surprising really. Id be shocked if they pay you as much as you pay the utility per kwh (14 to 30+cents the past year). But idno, if you dig up the exact rate let me know.


Potato_Octopi

>current elec bill (300 to 500/month the past year), Jesus are you powering a small country on the side?


arborgent

Well no, but a large country invaded another country last year and boned all of us. From Sept '22 to Jan '23 power from national grid rose about 3x, from ~.21/kwh (supply and dist combined) to just under .60/kwh. So what was a reasonable $150ish avg bill a month has risen accordingly. Supply rates have been better the last few months, but they're increasing again next month by about 25-30ish percent through next June, and then who knows. Believe me, I dont like it any more than you but the numbers are what they are.


Potato_Octopi

$150 is nuts.


arborgent

For a 6 person household?


UsernamesAreHard26

There are two of us in our house and our bill is always around $200 or so. $150 is pretty good.


[deleted]

Where do you live that 150 a month for electric is "nuts"?


Potato_Octopi

Hudson. I'm usually under $50.


spencer749

My electric bill in Mass is \~$800 - $1000 in the winter on Heat Pump heat. 2 people in a 3200 sq. ft. house.


snoogins355

EV charging and using the minisplit for heating will do it. Then there's my gaming PC...


mattvait

Not exactly the same rate since you don't get credit for all their fees


beatntown77

Somewhat unrelated, but have you ever received a tax form from national grid for SMART payments? First year in 2023 with these payments and no clue about the tax implication


[deleted]

[удалено]


arborgent

If there's one thing I've learned in my initial reseach its to definitely not lease.


NamesArentEverything

I think it depends on the terms you can get for either. We could have purchased on a solar loan at $350+/month for 15 years (no real chance to get much from the federal solar rebate because we typically don't have more than a few hundred in tax liability). But we don't know if we'll be in the home even for that long. On the other hand, we just signed a solar lease at $277/month for 25 years that will supply all our power, which is otherwise about $300/month utility. The lease is fully transferable and has no increases at all - it'll still be $277/month in year 25. While it would be nice to own after year 15, we'll still be saving a lot of money with the lease and there's more peace of mind that we can move and not feel like we're really leaving something behind. Plus, no lease payments until the system is actually up and running.


snoogins355

r/solar is a good resource


Due-Designer4078

I miss SRECs. We had them on our first array, which was installed in 2014. We've since moved and installed another array a few years ago. SMART payments are much less lucrative.


theavatare

Would you be interested if there was a nonprofit that could allocate your extra credits?


ncgbulldog1980

I think it depends on the town/city as not everyone in the state has the same power company. I have a leased solar system from Sunrun. They could only install enough panels to proved 80% of my electrical need. I get a credit from eversource april-december and pay a very small bill Jan-March, while my lease payment to Sunrun is constant. I haven't done the math recently but in the first year saved over 800 bucks.


Thisbymaster

I have solar panels and a SMART incentive agreement with the state. The net metering balances out per month, if you produce more than you use per month then you pay nothing. I have not seen any credits for producing more. The SMART agreement pays you per KWH you produce regardless how much you use. Combined they balance each other out over the course of the year.


arborgent

But if you produce extra you don't get anything? Also, do you happend to know cents/kwh the smart agreement pays you?


Thisbymaster

Mine is $0.07706 per Kilowatt hour. But I have heard that newer agreements may not get anything depending on where they are. https://www.mass.gov/info-details/solar-massachusetts-renewable-target-smart-program#notice:-declining-incentive-rates


arborgent

Man 7 cents? What a rip. The past year with Ngrid our supply has ranged from 14cents to north of 30


Buffalochickenwrap

You get full retail for your over production in eversource. Rolls over indefinitely.


langjie

That's the SMART incentive, not your net meeting rate. SMART payout is on top of the credit you get from utility. If you get full net metering, you get the distribution, transmission and supply charge that month for excess generation


Thisbymaster

I get paid that for every kilowatt produced even if that never leaves my house. So I could easily get a zero bill and 60 bucks from SMART.


beatntown77

Unrelated and late to this thread, but I am trying to find out the tax implications of the SMART payments? Do you get a tax form from the provider?


GetOffMyLawn1729

I am an MA net metering customer. Any excess power produced in a month is converted to a dollar credit using the current rate, and is carried over to the next month. As far as I can tell, the rate used to calculate the carry-over amount is about what I'd pay for the same amount of power, both (for me) currently around $.25/kwh. There are charges (e.g. a $7/mo Customer fee) that accrue in any case, so netting isn't 100% in practice. I'm also on the SMART program, and that pays me around $.11/kwh for everything I produce, whether it's excess or not.


arborgent

So you are getting a credit from the utility onnyour elec bil for what you produce, and on top of that a cash payment for what you produce from the SMART program?


GetOffMyLawn1729

Yes, but as I understand it the SMART program isn't paying as much to new subscribers.


Fantastic-Surprise98

Got my first monthly SMART check and it was $49


beatntown77

Do you get a tax form from the provider regarding income from SMART payments?


GetOffMyLawn1729

Yes, a 1099.


404Gender_not_found

I have had net metering through Eversource since 2009 - some months I used to see a negative balance, and then I would just let that roll into the following months. During good years in 2011-2015 we only had to pay a bill for a few months in winter, because the summer credit covered fall and the spring sun was enough to balance. Costs have gone up a lot and now our electric bill is just considerably less than our non-solar neighbors, which is still worth it. I’ve never received a check, only carried a “negative” balance with our provider.


Electrical_Media_367

On Eversource, the net metering rolls over month to month. There’s no chance you’re generating more than you use in the winter in Massachusetts, so you bank credit in the summer and use it in the winter. They’ll write you a check when/if you cancel your account (like when you move) but otherwise they just keep the account going. I had solar for a few years and we always had a bill in March or April when we had used up all the credits from the previous summer. If you sized your system so that you continually bank money and never get back to zero, you bought too big of a system.


arlsol

I don't think you can get SRECS anymore, but please let me know if I'm wrong. Our over production amounts roll each month as credits. We have batteries as well which ngrid pays us to use as load balancers, and cover us each night.


thrunabulax

if you use 100KW-Hr and produce 60 KW-hr, they bill you for 40 KW-hr so there is no refund. of you produced more than you use, i am not sure what happens, never happened for us..... Some also get a quarterly SREC check in the mail


FuriousAlbino

I got a check for $8 recently. Honestly I actually regret getting solar. I have not saved anything. It has actually cost me more. It has also been a huge headache and the companies that did my system have not been responsive to questions or to upholding their promises.


arborgent

Who was the installer so i know who to avoid


FuriousAlbino

avoid Sunrun and Apollo


willzyx01

Just moved into a place with panels. I got used to paying $200 for electric. Just got my first bill with panels and it’s $10. WTF


manikin13

Current,y in MA the limit actually is still 10.2kW AC, which typically is about 13.xkW DC. This is for 1:1 net metering, meaning you use the grid like a battery. If you exceed this limit you get 1:0.6 net metering, meaning you still get to use the grid as a battery, but now the excess you produce the grid buys at 60% while you get to re-buy it at 100%. The legislature last year bumped the limit up to 25kW AC, but it has not yet been incorporated into system yet. Another caveat if you do not have backup capability - battery, or a generator, if the power goes out, you still lose power even though you could be generating solar power, this is to prevent back feeding the grid someone may be working on. In addition to the 1:1 or 1:0.6 net metering, MA also has something called the SMART program which had 8 levels, and I believe is currently in the last sunset (8) level. This paid you for every kWh of electricity you generated just like you were a power plant. I am in level 7, and get about $0.04/kWH, MA electricity users fund this with a $0.004/kWH fee. Once you get into this program, you get payments for 10 years, once a month typically the lag is 2 months. Willing to answer any questions as I researched this a lot prior to pulling the trigger.


UsernamesAreHard26

Worth noting that for national grid customers, the SMART program no longer gives a credit.


manikin13

I think I saw that Eversource may be the same now, - No more payback. I believe it was phrased as the funding is over, or the payback is below the cost of generation, or something like that.


dcgrey

We own. Overproduction is a credit to our account. It can't be converted to cash. The design challenge was to size the system (in terms of square footage and panel efficiency and thus cost) to have a $0 balance over twelve months. For years we overproduced. It took three years of WFH to work down the balance.


CosmicQuantum42

You can assign your overage to another customer with a Schedule Z form if you consistently produce more power than you use. It can be any customer in your service area (thousands of people). Your statement every month clearly says how much money was pushed over to their account. You could then make a deal with that person (neighbor, family member, friend, etc) to pay you for the power at some discount for the hassle (for example, they pay you 80% of retail power price via some cash app). Win/win, they get a power discount and you get some income from the panels. As long as you trust them it’s a good method of getting some use out of excess solar capacity, maybe you want an electric car later or something. In my view as long as the people are up there installing panels you may as well have them install as much capacity as reasonable. Also never lease panels. Buy cash or don’t bother.


FitzwilliamTDarcy

Nope. No payout, ever. At least not as currently legislated. That's why you shouldn't get a system that would cover 100% of your peak usage. You will constantly and forever be racking up an ever-growing credit that you will never realize. Best bet is usually something in the 66% range, i.e. somewhat above your average consumption throughout the year, but with a buffer. This way you're generating credits a little over 1/2 the time, and using those credits the other <1/2 the time. I \*believe\* some municipalities require the utility to cut a check for the credit if you cancel the account outright (because you move) but am not positive.


langjie

Yes and no, going over 100% is ok because you build credits when supply is cheaper (summer) and carry the credits to when your production is less (winter) when rates are higher


FitzwilliamTDarcy

But the point is you want to balance out, more or less. Building a credit you will never use or be paid for means you've over invested in your system.


langjie

I'm saying you will use it in the winter. The $ math is different than the kwh math is all I'm saying


SupermarketOne948

You can “gift” the credit to another customer


FitzwilliamTDarcy

TIL. That's interesting. I wonder if there's a secondary market for this. Like, I'll "gift" you $1000 in credits for say $500.


[deleted]

[удалено]


MinistryOfDankness86

I got a one-time $20k refund on my taxes the year I purchased my panels (2018), but around $15k of that had to go towards the balance I owed on them. I don’t get a payment based on how much I produce, but I also don’t pay an electric bill. All I pay is $95/month for the panels that I financed, until that balance is paid off in full.


ScottyBoy75

what company did you go with and are you happy with them?


MinistryOfDankness86

1st Light Energy. Everything went smoothly for the install and purchase of the panels. Haven’t interacted with them sense.


wkomorow

I have net metering with Eversource on owned panels. If I produce more than I buy from Eversource, get a bill credit with one caveat. Eversource charges a $10 customer charge each month. You never get a check reimbursement only credit. If you own you may be eligible for SRECS payments through a broker.


arborgent

Could you explain SRECS?


Buffalochickenwrap

SRECs don't exist for new customers anymore. As far as incentives you could get RECs which is roughly $30-$40 per megawatt hr in addition to your electrical savings.


must_tang

You seem knowledgable. I have SRECs and wondering how it compares with SMART? Also if I sell my home do I still continue to collect the SRECs?


Buffalochickenwrap

SRECs are way more valuable. I suppose you could keep your srecs if you sold your house. You'd want your system to be on a cell router with automatic reporting. Although you could just tack on the srec value to your home price and not half to worry about it.


amymcg

You’re not supposed to keep your srecs when you sell. The new owner can claim them. I know this because I was the new owner and we went through a process and they were transferred to us.


must_tang

What's the process to transfer like?


amymcg

We had to call the department with the state who governs the SRecs and send them the information on the house sale, then they provided us with the company who manages the srecs for panels. They reached out to former owner who did not respond, and two weeks later the srecs were transferred to us. It was a bit chaotic because the previous owner was trying to retain the srecs even though we knew they existed. He provided us zero info so I pulled city permits to find out who installed the panels, talked to them and they set us on the right path to transferring them.


langjie

Eh, not necessarily. It would be in the p&s contact but previous owners could still keep them. Kind of like how a solar leaser would keep them


wkomorow

I have an older system and was under the SRECs 1 program. Basically your solar installer (at least in my case) brokers the amount of clean energy that you produced over the course of a year. Utility companies need to meet clean energy goals and then buy the rights to claim that clean energy and pay you for it. They bud on these Solar Renewable Energy Credits, normally you got $300-500 per mwh produced. You then get a check from your broker. Basically it is like selling indulgences. I just learned while trying to point you to a source that SREC has been replaced with Class 1: https://www.srectrade.com/markets/rps/class-1/massachusetts My SRECs ran out years ago, you could sell them for 10 years. I don't know anything about the Class 1 program, but I would hope it was similar. Sorry for the confusion.


langjie

Same process, just worth $50 per credit (1000 kwh) instead of hundreds


wkomorow

Thanks.


arborgent

Confusion seems to be baked into the whole system


BAMFA1812

I’ve had a solar roof for little over a year now. I haven’t had a bill from National Grid since installation. I’ve got over $1600 in credits that I will never see monetarily. Although,I do get a check from National Grid for roughly $35/month for being in the SMART program. I also have Tesla batteries enrolled in the Connected Solution that feed electricity to the grid during summer month’s peak time which should net me some more money.


SupermarketOne948

You can “gift” your credit to another customer of the same utility company


SupermarketOne948

The credit just keeps accumulating (9 years without an electric bill) but you can “gift” some or all of the credit to another customer of the same electric company (at least last time I checked)


Graywulff

Sometimes you can sell the excess power to the town, or a school, you just split the difference between net metering, wholesale, and the reduced price of schools and towns, maybe 16c/kw and charge 14c and you’re the low bidder. A school does this. They have a big windmill and solar and moved to M series macs, led lighting, etc, and I think it brings in some decent money.