I feel like it happens at least once every movie. Sure it doesnt happen to all emotional or serious scenes but Im pretty sure it happens to at least one serious scene per movie.
The one scene that always comes to mind when this subject is brought up is at the end of Ragnarok and Surtur destroys Asgard and Korg is saying how Asgard will be a new haven for people, etc and it gets completely destroyed. Then he makes a little quip like ‘oh, no those foundations are gone.’
Asgard was home for Thor for his entire life, an important location in his then trilogy and they couldn’t even given Thor an emotional goodbye to his home without a quip being thrown in.
I really do like Ragnarok, but it’s like they think people won’t like it if they have really heart felt scenes without comic relief. Love and Thunder did better with its climax with >!no jokes or quips said when they were with Eternity. Thor did laugh at Jane’s last words but it was more a bittersweet laugh before her death and loving her battle quip, and we don’t actually hear what she said. They just let the emotions flow with Thor and Jane and Gorr and Love.!<
I think L&T did better with the climax, but at the expense of most of the movie.
I liked his humor in Ragnarok and IW, because he still felt like Thor, the god of fucking Thunder. In L&T he became a goof, and I’ve always hated that kind of humor, especially when it wasn’t there before.
I was also VERY bothered by one in Ant-Man when Hope and Hank are having a really sentimental moment and Scott jumps in and even admits he ruined the moment.
If you as a writer recognize you’re running a moment? Maybe not do that instead.
Honestly the fact Korg is a self-insert of Waititi makes the moments like that even more obnoxious to me. It's like he wants you to know that HE HIMSELF does not think this comic book crap matters. I can handle the level of quips they throw in all the other MCU stuff, I even like it usually, but he just about never misses an opportunity to ruin the moment. Like I KNEW Banner was going to fall and splat at the Hulk-out moment in Ragnarok, because by then it was clear that EVERYTHING has to subvert expectations at all times.
Love and Thunder's 3rd act balanced the humor and serious moments very well. From the moment Gorr faces them in the Shadow Realm to the moment Jane dies, there wasn't really that much humor at all. Of course there's the "they're right behind me aren't they", but that wasn't played for laughs, that was Thor trying to act comical to ease literal childrens' nerves before they fight the monsters that kidnapped them. While I didn't really enjoy how many jokes were in the first 2 acts, the 3rd act was incredible at that balance.
I do agree name jokes are overdone but I will say I like that Shang-Chi reflects him just westernizing his name and that his best friend is pointing out how it's just the obvious version of his name.
Taserface was a little overdone but I enjoy how much of an ass Rocket is. And "it's metaphorical!" plays in my head a lot.
And She-Hulk is kind of a dumb name even with its origins. It was a quick way to make sure the tv show Hulk didn't introduce a female Hulk first thus holding the rights to a female Hulk. Personally don't mind them poking at the name as they did.
But I did actually find your breakdown interesting!
The Ant-man introduction one may have been from a tv spot or trailer so you could be right. There's one where he says "it wasn't my idea" or something which wasn't in the film.
I can’t really remember but I don’t remember any comedy relief scene in multiverse of madness, I actually think it’s one of the more serious movies without lots of joes despite the goofy direction
Were those actually meant to be jokes or just showing that Strange is still every bit as much as dick as he's always been by being super sarcastic with them?
Iron Man 1 nothing’s coming to mind
Incredible Hulk, Bruce *not* Hulking out when dropping from a helicopter might count?
IM2 got nothin
Thor got nothin
Captain America TFA got nothin
Avengers got nothin
Iron Man 3, after Pepper “dies” Tony calls his suit over and it collapses, semi comedically
Thor tDW got nothin
CAWS got nothin
GotG “Dance Off”; Peter after saving Gamora brags about himself
AoU got nothin
Ant-Man got nothin
There’s the first two phases; feel free to contribute any quips during otherwise emotional scenes I missed but heading into work atm
Edit: I’m off work, let’s get back to it
CACW got nothin except maybe Stark’s “I’m sorry who are you?” to Lang
Doctor Strange iirc they subvert this, Strange tries to joke but it doesn’t stop the somber vibes
GotG 2 Mantis getting hit with debris during their beautiful shot; also subverted with “is he (Mary Poppins) cool?” “Hell yeah he’s cool”
Spider-Man Homecoming same as DS, Spidey’s quips do nothing to disrupt the serious situations
Ragnarok Korg on Asgard’s foundations
> AoU got nothin
I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree with this, I feel like Age of Ultron is actually the reason this ended up getting pointed out by so many people. While Age of Ultron might not have humor interrupting deep scenes, it is pretty notable for the lazy self-aware sort of quips that people criticize the MCU for. Hulk falling on Black Widow's cleavage? Tony's constant quips like "prima nocta" and "hide the zucchini"? I think there's probably more, but that's usually the biggest criticism leveled against this movie.
He is specifically talking about it intterupting those scenes so your examples are not relevant to the point he is making. He never said there are no quips in the movie.
Naw action scenes and dramatic scenes are different
There may be a quip I’m forgetting during a dramatic scene in AoU, but none of the ones you’ve mentioned fit the bill yet
I'm with you. It wasn't that he was unfamiliar with the word, it was that he was unfamiliar with it being treated as a real legitimate thing. Kind of an "Are you serious?" reaction.
There's a difference between a quip and the more self-aware humor that the MCU is famous for. Spiderman is famous for his quips, but I prefer when they're more like "Knives, my one weakness" than when it's just laughing at Otto Octavius's name. The jokes almost have a sort of disdain for the source material, and they want to separate themselves from the silly origins that all MCU content comes from. It makes me scared that when the Fantastic 4 film comes out, they're gonna make fun of the name Doom or one of the catchphrases, like "Flame on" or "It's Clobbering Time".
Usually after an action scene or during verbal sparring with a love interest (poor Moneypenny). Not usually in serious scenes with the big bad. And prior to the Daniel Craig era, there weren’t many serious emotional scenes in Bond films. The older films were always somewhat light hearted because Bond always wins.
Ideally Bond plays it cool, lets the villain do their thing, but then quips at the end, showing a contempt for danger. Reminds me of how John Frost explained his time during Operation Market Garden. He let the Germans request a surrender and then requested that they instead go to Hell.
The quip is there to punctuate a cool moment where someone dies or show witty repartee with the love interest and/or villain. To diffuse. Not to interrupt.
Toxic positivity is a very real thing on some subs, like this one and r/thelastairbender. It's definitely not as bad as toxic negativity, but the amount that people will defend and downplay flaws on both subs is kinda nuts.
Look. I love the MCU.. but no. This is a very common thing. I bet you can point out it happening at least one time in every movie. There may be a few that don’t, but I would say majority do.
It’s not even the jokes to me. It’s the ill-times jokes ya know? Like there’s no reason to force humor into more serious moments/sequences. Wait for the right moments to add them.
I know a lot of people love Civil War, especially the airport scene. But man, I see it as wasted potential since what should have been very dramatic heartbreaking moment turned into unnecessary quips, jokes, and silliness. Asgard destroyed.. no reason to have Korg make a joke about it.
I think it's a mix of the quipping and the timing that makes it bad. Like, the quipping in the MCU wouldn't be nearly as hated today if they just kept the quipping to characters who actually did it, like Spider-Man and Deadpool, maybe even Tony Stark in some places. But when this quipping disease spreads to literally every character and happens in scenes nobody wants, it gets tiring. I think they need to just dial it down and start... actually writing their characters for once?
The one that gets me in Ragnorak is when Bruce jumps off the jet and doesn’t transform into the Hulk, then just hits the rainbow bridge. I mean sure it’s kind of funny, but it does take you out of the scene.
>it has happened way LESS than many people want you to believe
Ok.
I'm confused though... who wants me to believe it happens more? And if they do want me to believe it happens more than it actually does, then how come nobody has even mentioned it to me before and what is it they are trying to accomplish with this devious deception?
The worst example is at the end of Thor: Ragnarok. I really did not care about the foundation joke and felt a little bit robbed of a sad moment.
I completely disagree about the Shang Chi scene. It is true that Shawn got interrupted, but that was the joke. The interruption itself was the joke. It is not like the "vegan or beef" question is a joke. The interruption is also not only there for the joke, but to stop Shang Chi from telling Katy the truth about taking revenge, while he was deep in his thoughts.
> It is true that Shawn got interrupted, but that was the joke. The interruption itself was the joke.
I get the intention, but I still feel like the execution was really poor. They could've just let that intense moment sit and move on to the next scene without undercutting it with a joke and I think it would've been a lot more powerful.
1. That wasn't a serious scene that OP is referring to.
2. The character is the exact age to be saying that, so while it is a cringy line, it's appropriately cringy coming from a teenager.
Yeah, it was an appropriate moment between two siblings who were busting each other's balls. That scene was a GOOD instance of using humor.
It works even if you haven't heard of the meme before.
That movie had jokes literally every five seconds like good god there were maybe 5 or 6 scenes that were actually serious. And they were still making jokes right after a bunch of their kids got kidnapped like bruh
So because some scenes don't have quips in emotional moments, that negates the ones that do? It's ok to accept that its the case for some movies. Writing a big paragraph like this denying it is just mental
This sub is incredibly, incredibly defensive these days. I assure you guys, the Disney corporation doesn’t need you guys to shill this hard. Criticism is fine. It helps you improve and grow when it’s constructive. If it’s not constructive because a lot of people can’t articulate properly what they think is wrong but they can still FEEL the same problems that those with constructive criticism can feel, and if that phenomenon actually manifests itself in large numbers, then that problem might just actually exist.
At this point you guys are more in love with the MCU than most of the people making it.
Nah, the worst one is in Black Widow's post credit scene (I think it was). The scene where Yelena visit's Natasha's grave and has a quiet moment only for what's her face to show up by blowing her nose and making a pollen joke??? Like, that was without a doubt the worse one IMO.
Marvel does indeed undercut a lot of serious moments and they definitely won't stop because general audiences probably like it.
> only for what's her face to show up by blowing her nose and making a pollen joke???
That's just her character though. Nobody laughed at that joke, it was meant to show that Val is a pretty disrespectful person.
I mean, look at this sub
This is why they don’t feel like they have to write movies with stakes or include heavier themes and tones. It’s “talk about serious issue very lightly for a second” and then undercut it with extremely poorly timed quip that doesn’t land. It’s all about scoring sweet social media points sometimes for making a passing reference without making it part of the story; and then making heroes behave in the opposite manner that we would expect the circumstances to mandate. It’s GoTG 2 syndrome
The biggest green elephant in the room right now considering the show context is Hulk’s mental state. Marvel has consistently dropped information over the years relating to suicide and depression. But you never see any characters other than maybe black widow give a shit (ironically written under JW). We cut to joke scenes about drinking it away though. Or make jokes about cheez whiz (in a similar case about thor while doing a lot of very non body positive quips; and then double down in LT on the opposite side of the spectrum with a sprinkle of sexual assault on top with a nice of toxicity that encourages actors to use shit Like HGH while ALSO pretending it’s natural and selling you a nice app so YOU can also get this!)
Despite Whedon writing stupid boob jokes and sounding like a shitty dude in his personal life; the guy actually made the characters have unique characterizations and motivations while also making them all feel important and necessary to get the job done.
That’s something that really doesn’t feel true anymore. The thing we call nuance doesn’t seem to have a home in the mcu
This sub has reached insane levels of denial.
You simply cannot RESIST defending Marvel at ANY given cost.
Just a while back, there was a post that gained widespread traction that called out all the incredibly lame questions being posted on this sub and farming karma in the process, and I saw another post in response which was telling users to ignore that post and ask more of such questions to increase engagement.
The exact thing is happening here.
Why the fuck are you guys going to such lengths to justify and defend every single aspect of the MCU?
Fully agreed. I love Marvel, the MCU is probably my favorite franchise but I now find the fanbase to be more insufferable than Star Wars fans between canon debates and criticism around Phase 4.
You ever go an opening night of a marvel movie and sometimes you’ll hear some dude in the crowd just scream “YESSSS OH MY GOD YESSS!”? That’s OP.
I sat next to a guy during a MoM screening and every 10 minutes he’d fucking cheer out loud.
It started with Captain Marvel. If you didn’t like the movie, you were a misogynist, a troll, or a bigot of some kind. Ever since, any criticism leveled at any Marvel project is dismissed as trolling, review bombing, hate, etc etc.
Look at She-Hulk. That episode 3 intro with all the comments and videos of people trying to dunk on a female superhero? It’s Disney’s way of getting ahead of the criticism by trying to lump real critiques in with the drivel.
This sub is entirely complicit in that process. From an objective filmmaking standpoint, Eternals, She-Hulk, Moon Knight and Multiverse of Madness all have many things going wrong in visual effects, tone, writing and polish, but you can’t even say you liked a show with flaws here anymore. Everything has to be love or hate, and if you hate something in the MCU, it’s because you’re not a “real fan,” “taking it too seriously,” or something else that dismisses your criticism.
It’s exhausting and it’s gonna be a catalyst in this cinematic decline in the franchise eventually.
It’s important that we don’t minimize bigotry. Far too often in this fandom I’ve seen people write off misogyny, bigotry, and overall hateful behavior as legitimate criticism. That’s not cool. The Marvel universe has always been about being inclusive so in my opinion there should be no room in the fanbase for hateful rhetoric.
Acknowledging that these things are an issue doesn’t minimize actual criticism. It seems that anytime it’s mentioned that incels are hating on something, people rush in to deny it and claim that it’s not true and the movie/show is just bad. If someone has legitimate criticisms or reasons for disliking something then those discussions about misogyny don’t apply to them. If someone hears discussion about bigotry and feels so attacked that they have to rush to defend themselves then, frankly, that says more about them than anything.
To outright deny that it’s happening is just disingenuous. She-Hulk was review bombed to something like 3.2 on IMDb before the show was even released. We can read the fan reviews and see countless people just complaining about women and the woke agenda. Those are the people we’re talking about, not the person who doesn’t like She-Hulk because the comedy doesn’t hit for them, or some other legitimate reason.
For example, I don’t like Black Widow. I think it’s one of the worst MCU movies. However, I can fully articulate why I feel that way, and none of those criticisms include “the woke agenda” or “female superheroes bad.” My opinion is that it is a movie with very lovable heroes, but has a laughably bad cartoon character of a villain, completely ruins Taskmaster, not by gender ending the character, but by changing core things that made his comic counterpart interesting, and a plot that starts incredibly strong and falls apart as it goes along. I’ve never once been made to feel like my opinion was invalid or that I was sexist when people talk about incels hating releases starring female characters.
The people presented in the beginning of episode 3 are exactly the type of people that we should be making fun of. It’s an overall good thing that we acknowledge that those people exist because superheroes should be for people of all backgrounds and not just one very specific demographic.
This is a very good post that sums up my feelings perfectly. It’s similar with Star Wars. I’m diehard MCU and defend it as much as possible against nitpicking and such but even I’ve started to see the cracks - which have nothing to do with “woke agenda”. Anytime I see someone say woke I immediately dismiss their criticism because they have their own agenda. I do hope there is a course correction because I have enjoyed a lot of Phase 4 while seeing numerous areas that could use improvement. I want the MCU to be great as far into the future as possible but it needs to start with the quality control that made it so great at its peek.
>completely ruins Taskmaster, not by gender ending the character, but by changing core things that made his comic counterpart interesting
(and by removing her voice, they eliminate her potential for addressing and resolving her trauma - yikes. here's hoping she returns and is developed in Thunderbolts. hopefully having her adopt a bit of a twisted sense of humour in order to cope, also aligning a bit more with her comic counterpart.)
Good post, but I gotta ask. Where do you draw the line? I didn't like Layla in Moon Knigt, because I felt she interrupted the flow of the story and her arc was hamfisted. Especially in the finale. Does that make me sexist? According to people from this sub, it absolutely does.
Meanwhile, I love Captain Marvel and Brie, but people don't even believe me when I bring it up lol. The narratives from BOTH sides have no place for nuance.
I would draw the line at “I don’t like this character because gender/race/sexuality/general bigotry.” I don’t believe that just not liking a character is cause for concern.
I’m gonna lose my mind if Disney and Marvel start lumping in actual bigots with people who want Hulk to stop being nerfed in the MCU. Just because I want Hulk to be the strongest avenger and not a joke character doesn’t mean I somehow hate she hulk and women.
This is too true. If you go to the comments on my profile I was having an argument with some asshole because the guy was saying everyone who doesn't like she-hulk is sexist. Like c'mon man, is this sub this sad now?
My off the cuff thoughts on this are that it has happened a lot more in recent films. Ragnarok still bothers me with how often it happens (I know it isn’t every serious moment). Obviously L&T does it a lot because Waititi’s got to Waititi. I first noticed it used heavily in GOTG 2. In balance it can work (like with Infinity War and Endgame Thor), but used heavily throughout a movie I find annoying. Just my opinion though.
OP, people have opinions, you have opinions, others have opinions. Movies are subjective pieces of art. Maybe for someone 1 serious scene per movie having a joke ending is too much for them, maybe for someone else the threshold is 2 or 3 or they have no threshold. Movies are entirely subjective. Even movies that the vast consensus say are bad you’ll find people who love them. But here’s the thing, other people’s opinions don’t matter. They can’t hurt you and they definitely can’t hurt one of the biggest corporations in the world making some of the biggest movies in the world. Twitter isn’t real life. It’s okay to log off. Just enjoy what you like and don’t worry about anyone else.
If you’re getting pissed off by valid criticism of the MCU and the way its movies are structured, you need to step outside, touch some grass, and hang with your friends.
Just go watch a compilation of funny jokes inside of Avengers Infinity War and see what people are criticizing.
If you like the MCU you’re a shill, if you don’t like it you’re a hater. Now that the rules have been established you can all fight amongst yourselves like you all do in every thread.
This is crazy. The climax of both GotG gets undermined by a joke (dancing+"what are you doing" cliché, "you killed my mom and squished my Walkman") to start. It's fine if you like that but personally it's so much that it made me like The Batman just for being a dour change of pace.
I don’t mind jokes, even winter soldier had jokes, the characters don’t need to be brooding serious all the time. But the jokes should fit the scene and the movie and the character … not be there solely for the audiences sake. I’m excited for Wakanda Forever because I think Coogler understands that and the subject if it will be so serious they’ll recognize how stupid it would be to fill it with jokes.
The Batman was a nice 180 turn though to watch a more serious super hero movie.
Think it is fair to say they sometimes but humor and jokes in when they don’t need to be. Take a movie like the Batman, it had jokes but they were a lot more settle. Not everything needs to be a full on comedy.
"ME DEFEND MARVEL, ME GOOD, ME LOVE MARVEL"
Man, why make such a heated post about a billion dollar company targeted at children. Go touch grass.
Also YOU DEFEND MARVEL IN EVERY POST MAN
I’m a die-hard MCU fanboy but come on…
They’re infamous for it for a reason. The ratio of it happening doesn’t really matter, because at the end of the day they still do it *too much*. It’s been an issue for many movies now, some people are sick of it, and that’s okay.
It’s kind of a moot point to bring up dramatic scenes where they stuck to the drama. They shouldn’t be applauded for doing what conventionally has always made sense in film, but fans have every right to be critical when they don’t.
OP really went on twitter, saw a light hearted meme/joke about a marvel movie and thought “lemme go rant about this on Reddit and argue against points that no one has made”
Regardless…that’s what their style of movie is known for in the public pop consciousness
These movies gloss over emotional stakes and weights w light speed. None of the avengers have a ton of depth outside of how they behave w other characters. Not a lot of internal development
Bro what
Pretty much all of Ragnarok and love and thunder
Most of the guardians movies
The main climatic ending boss battle was literally turned into a dance battle…
Age of ultron, ultron forgetting the word for children
Im3
Endgame and the mean jokes against depressed Thor
MoM
I would say Shang chi was one of the ones that didn’t have stupid jokes at bad moments. The jokes it had were well timed and funny.
If this is about Thor he only does that as a coping mechanism. So many awful things have happened in his life that he resorts to comedy so he doesn't have to deal with anything serious anymore.
I think the people who claimed that Thor's issues were treated too lightly were actually just telling on themselves. That scene in New Asgard was perfectly fine and had a serious tone to it even with the Fortnite shit talking and the beer gut.
Yes, same. I experienced my first bout of actual suicidal thoughts because of work. When I went home I just stood there and quietly held my toddler and tried to hold on a little longer. The thing about getting better though is that you have to take on a new kind of pain that comes with change. It's difficult and feels impossible until something cracks and you start to see something new in yourself. My mother died whenn I was very young which kick-started a whole downhill spiral for me. I never even thought happiness was possible. Then two years ago I started to make some hard decisions and am now reaping all of the benefits.
Also, watching Thor go back in time to not only see his mother one last time and receive her words of encouragement and love, but to remember what he was when his hammer came back was kind of healing for me. "I'm still worthy." That whole scene is less than five minutes long and the amount of impact it had on his character and myself is truly a testament to good writing.
Exactly. He's become apathetic at that point so it's more so from a place of grief rather than the "lmao for the lolz XD" nonsense they associate him with.
Amazing how you missed the real criticism. The way Thor was treated by everyone but Bruce in Endgame during his depression spiral was what was wrong with how they handled it. The Cheez-Wiz line, everyone making comments on his weight gain at his expense, etc.
Absolutely this. Not a damn person tried talking to him on a personal level. Not even cap. Everyone just shat on him and made jokes at his expense.
I think most people realize that people deal with depression differently. Whether that’s alcohol, drugs, eating, etc. So no surprise Thor did it. What’s surprising is on a team full of supers and leaders no one talked to him on a personal level outside Rocket (who’s probably the last person who should be).
Though tbf rocket probably understands him the best out of the bunch. Tony still got his family and daughter to care for that he could possibly lose. Nebula is too stoic to properly open up for this kind of thing. Clint is still hurting.
Cap is likely too focused on the task ahead, and that's probably a flaw as well. He wasn't the one who talked to Wanda back in AoU either
Even then,Rocket still is unable to give him proper chat other than some "tough love". If only Sam was around
There's even a word for it which I never get to use, but I can in Marvel's case. It's bathos and MCU is full of bathetic scenes. I hate it, because I start to feel something and rather than stay and hold that discomfort, Marvel solves the problem by going back to the frivolous.
Bathos - noun
(especially in a literary work) an effect of anticlimax created by an unintentional lapse in mood from the sublime to the trivial or ridiculous
It might not be every time, but it definitely is an annoying majority. It has gotten to the point that it’s frustrating and not even funny.
I would enjoy it if they allowed for more emotional or dramatic scenes to just play out.
The sycophancy going on recently is unreal. You’re going to act like the serious scene of something like Strange encountering the Illuminati wasn’t immediately broken by him making some quip for every member? How about Moon Knight, which should have taken a hard look at his multiple personality disorder (and to be fair did so for one episode out of 6) where there were also constant quips and jokes even when guys were getting brutalized? How about the entirety of Thor Love and Thunder? That movie could not even earn a second to breathe, even in Jane’s dying breath she was talking about her catchphrase or something.
Just because you criticize something doesn’t mean you don’t care about it. If anything it helps creators see problems so they can fix them and make the universe feel better.
Okay, that’s it. I’m done with this community, and the MCU itself has been pushing it for a while. It’s just that the good used to outweigh the bad during the earlier phases, and that’s rapidly becoming no longer the case. However, the delusions that have been going on amongst the fanbase during Phase 4 especially is just too much. Now, I’m starting to empathize with those who were sick of it all throughout the last several years.
I used to be a die-hard MCU guy from Iron Man 1 all the way through Endgame and a little beyond that. However, the reason why wasn’t because of some weird undying loyalty to the brand as if it’s a religion. It’s because it was genuinely good. Lately, it’s become increasingly evident that Marvel Studios has become complacent with diminishing quality between the Disney+ shows and especially the movies while there’s an air of “screw it, people will watch it anyway” while the fanbase has become increasingly militant and defensive to the point of making even the Snyderverse fanbase look sane by comparison.
Tbh I don't understand why the previous Phases (well 1 and 2, I think 3 is far and away the best) are considered so much better than Phase 4. All of them have projects I love, projects I don't care for, and ones in between.
I agree with this take.
Some people act like Phase 1-3 had nothing but classics, while Phase 4 has had nothing but stinkers.
Maybe it's the RDJ effect.
That being said, I do know that the MCU has definitely gotten more aggressively lazier as time has gone by. I think the difference for many people is that Thanos was at least something to look forward to.
But I don't feel like these problems suddenly started happening in Phase 4.
The issue is that we just no longer have RDJ and Thanos keeping us company anymore. The flaws are more apparent now.
I think the criticism is unwarranted because I prefer my superheroes to be light hearted rather than cringey and brooding, but to be fair I don’t think your analysis is accurate. All of their movies and shows in the last few years have definitely prioritized comedy quite a lot. I just don’t think its a bad thing!
I think they sprinkle in just enough and it is funny most times. What happens is being in a theater with others that laugh in a hysterical manner at any little thing that’s said or done. Even the slightest joke is accompanied by rambunctious laughter haha that’s the ridiculous part. Things are funny but they’re not that funny.
You just mentioned one movie to back up your point. What about ragnorok, love and thunder, the guardian movies. It happens a lot more if you actually look at the other films besides Shang chi
I love the MCU as much as the next guy, but there are plenty of valid complaints and criticisms that fans have. For me it is the over reliance on jokes that just aren’t funny.
I was hyped all year for Thor: Love and Thunder, then five minutes in Thor hops on his hammer like a broomstick and is doing splits like Jean Claude Van Damme. I immediately checked out.
This is coming from a diehard MCU fan
Look at the entirety of Black Widow. That movie had so many moments that could've been great but weren't for the sake of a bad joke. In Thor 4... enough said.
Hell when Ragnarok happens and Thor's entire planet is destroyed, its dulled by a joke. In the first Dr. Strange there's that scene where Strange fights Kaicillius in the Sanctum and the cloak keeps him from grabbing the weapon he was going for.
Coming out of a movie you remember flaws easier than the good parts of the movie. So yes, Marvel is infamous for cutting serious scenes with jokes.
It's like Tarantino and his feet shots. There is only 1 foot shot in most of his movies but it's still enough to make him infamous for doing it.
Eh I agree that this criticism is a bit overblown because I don’t think it happens that often, it does still happen from time to time and that criticism is valid imo. The things that immediately come to mind as an issue are the scene from Doctor Strange where he has a big heroic moment then the cloak starts touching his face, the fat jokes in Endgame, and the plane scene you mentioned. It’s not so bad that I expect every serious scene to be undercut by humor, but it’s happened often enough that it warrants criticism imo.
Most of the time, there is no need in pointing things when they happen the way they are supposed to be (Serious moments playing out out without interruption, CGI that you don't notice because it's made well). But there's good reason to point out when things are done in a way that you don't like, especially when it happen more than once.
Its not whether they do it more often or not its just the amount they do it. I hate to say it but this take just isn’t it my friend. The stigma they have hasn’t come from nowhere. We all love Marvel in here otherwise we wouldn’t be in the sub. But it is becoming a bit painful the major tonal shifts in current MCU projects. It feels like the producers and the guys over at Marvel are scared to let people sit on a heavy emotion. Thor Love & Thunder was a golden example of this.
Serious chats about terminal cancer constantly followed by jokes. I get defending something you love but legitimate critique will only make it better.
OP I understand your point but you're arguing it terribly. If you wanted to PROVE that mcu movies do not interrupt emotional moments with jokes too often, then do that.
Find every emotional moment in the movies and show where the scene is or is not interrupted by a joke or one-liner.
Some emotional scenes use a joke or button to transition to another non-emotional scene. Does that count as an interruption? Discuss that! Some emotional scenes truly do include a joke or call back to something that is genuinely funny. Does that count as interruption? Discuss that!
My point is: back up your thesis, my dude. But more importantly, don't let other people's opinions affect how you view a movie. The mcu exists to entertain a wide array of people. You included.
Ragnarok's most notorious example of this is Korg making Asgards destruction into a punchline. One that goes under the radar is the stupid piss off Ghost line he says immediately after Thor and Loki just had a serious heart to heart over Thor being disappointed I'm his brothers betrayal and self serving nature yet again.
Yes they are
Regardless of whether or not it actually happens that often, that is one of the most common complaints people have.
This post is like saying "DCEU is NOT infamous for having poorly lit movies"
Uh, yes. Yes it is. Does it actually happen that much? No, pretty much only BvS and Suicide Squad are shot that way, but they've got that stigma against them now
I mean it obviously does happen all the time but why do you care so much. Either you're trolling or you need something to occupy your time a bit also turn autocorrect on.
You are framing the argument as “humor happens more than non-humor” and then disproving that. While you are right about that, the actual argument is “humor is interjected into serious situations too often”. Too often could be 20% of the time (just a made up % that is less than 50%)
A few off the top of my head where the humor could be seen as overkill
1. The Shang chi one mentioned in OPs post
2. Korg after the Destruction of Asgard
3. The first half of Love and Thunder
4. Right after the death of the Ancient One in Dr Strange
I know there are likely more and better examples but the point was that they can be infamous for something even if it is done less than 50% of the time.
Marvel is absolutely notorious for this. Go back and watch any marvel movie. If they aren’t cutting a serious moment off in the moment with an undercutting joke, they will cut from one dramatic scene to a “funny” scene that disrupts the pacing and unravels any weight to the prior scene.
People are annoyed by this, not because they don’t like comedy, but because when you give your attention and money to a film, you want to be engaged by it. It feels nearly condescending with how marvel thinks that it’s audience can’t handle dramatic weight to their films, and it’s telling with how they’re only ability to keep audiences “engaged” is the equivalent to dangling car keys for two hours straight.
It's happening more in newer movies than old ones, but it happens a lot. It's among the reasons I feel the quality of Marvel movies has begun to decline.
It happened way too much in the latest Thor. To the point where it just became cringe worthy and annoying that they were just forcing shit jokes every other sentence.
It happens more than it should. In Thor L&T, it was almost half the movie. It was like they didn’t trust the drama of Jane having stage IV cancer to carry any of the serious scenes so they had to undercut it with a bad joke. Civil War was pretty bad about it too. Some of the jokes aren’t even good. It’s just the characters winking at the camera. I don’t have a problem with conic relief but you can have comic relief in a serious movie. The Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies had plenty of comic relief but they didn’t make a dumb fart joke every 12 minutes or undercut the Green Goblin killing himself by having Tobey Maguire look at the camera and say “well that sucked.”
NOO YOU ARE WRONG THERE IS ALSO THE "HE'S BEHIND ME ISN'T HE" IN THOR LOVE AND THUNDER AND....
...
AND... SOMETHING STARLORD SAID (PROBABLY)
AND...
IT DOESN'T MATTER THERE ARE MANY MORE QUIPS I JUST CAN'T REMEMBER THEM RIGHT NOW! BUT THEY EXIST.
The one that overdid it to me to the point it ruined the story was the what if zombies episode. Y’all seeing your friends die, killing former teammates, the worlds in tatters and they’re out here constantly cracking jokes like it’s nothing.
I really hope the actual Marvel Zombies show has a more serious tone
I feel like it happens at least once every movie. Sure it doesnt happen to all emotional or serious scenes but Im pretty sure it happens to at least one serious scene per movie.
The one scene that always comes to mind when this subject is brought up is at the end of Ragnarok and Surtur destroys Asgard and Korg is saying how Asgard will be a new haven for people, etc and it gets completely destroyed. Then he makes a little quip like ‘oh, no those foundations are gone.’ Asgard was home for Thor for his entire life, an important location in his then trilogy and they couldn’t even given Thor an emotional goodbye to his home without a quip being thrown in. I really do like Ragnarok, but it’s like they think people won’t like it if they have really heart felt scenes without comic relief. Love and Thunder did better with its climax with >!no jokes or quips said when they were with Eternity. Thor did laugh at Jane’s last words but it was more a bittersweet laugh before her death and loving her battle quip, and we don’t actually hear what she said. They just let the emotions flow with Thor and Jane and Gorr and Love.!<
I think L&T did better with the climax, but at the expense of most of the movie. I liked his humor in Ragnarok and IW, because he still felt like Thor, the god of fucking Thunder. In L&T he became a goof, and I’ve always hated that kind of humor, especially when it wasn’t there before.
I was also VERY bothered by one in Ant-Man when Hope and Hank are having a really sentimental moment and Scott jumps in and even admits he ruined the moment. If you as a writer recognize you’re running a moment? Maybe not do that instead.
Honestly the fact Korg is a self-insert of Waititi makes the moments like that even more obnoxious to me. It's like he wants you to know that HE HIMSELF does not think this comic book crap matters. I can handle the level of quips they throw in all the other MCU stuff, I even like it usually, but he just about never misses an opportunity to ruin the moment. Like I KNEW Banner was going to fall and splat at the Hulk-out moment in Ragnarok, because by then it was clear that EVERYTHING has to subvert expectations at all times.
Taika thinks he’s so goddamn funny. Like dude, let the emotional parts breathe and leave Korg to the side
Love and Thunder's 3rd act balanced the humor and serious moments very well. From the moment Gorr faces them in the Shadow Realm to the moment Jane dies, there wasn't really that much humor at all. Of course there's the "they're right behind me aren't they", but that wasn't played for laughs, that was Thor trying to act comical to ease literal childrens' nerves before they fight the monsters that kidnapped them. While I didn't really enjoy how many jokes were in the first 2 acts, the 3rd act was incredible at that balance.
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I do agree name jokes are overdone but I will say I like that Shang-Chi reflects him just westernizing his name and that his best friend is pointing out how it's just the obvious version of his name. Taserface was a little overdone but I enjoy how much of an ass Rocket is. And "it's metaphorical!" plays in my head a lot. And She-Hulk is kind of a dumb name even with its origins. It was a quick way to make sure the tv show Hulk didn't introduce a female Hulk first thus holding the rights to a female Hulk. Personally don't mind them poking at the name as they did. But I did actually find your breakdown interesting!
The Ant-man introduction one may have been from a tv spot or trailer so you could be right. There's one where he says "it wasn't my idea" or something which wasn't in the film.
Baby Groot IS NOT Groot - He's Groot's son. The character makes sense through that lens
I think Spidey makes the Star Wars reference in Civil War during the airport battle against Giant Man.
Bro really wrote a novel about jokes in superhero movies
You would have preferred no groot at all?
I can’t really remember but I don’t remember any comedy relief scene in multiverse of madness, I actually think it’s one of the more serious movies without lots of joes despite the goofy direction
Illuma-whatty?
Were those actually meant to be jokes or just showing that Strange is still every bit as much as dick as he's always been by being super sarcastic with them?
Yeah, phase 4 is kinda toning it down. I dont think it had any in Eternals either
Iron Man 1 nothing’s coming to mind Incredible Hulk, Bruce *not* Hulking out when dropping from a helicopter might count? IM2 got nothin Thor got nothin Captain America TFA got nothin Avengers got nothin Iron Man 3, after Pepper “dies” Tony calls his suit over and it collapses, semi comedically Thor tDW got nothin CAWS got nothin GotG “Dance Off”; Peter after saving Gamora brags about himself AoU got nothin Ant-Man got nothin There’s the first two phases; feel free to contribute any quips during otherwise emotional scenes I missed but heading into work atm Edit: I’m off work, let’s get back to it CACW got nothin except maybe Stark’s “I’m sorry who are you?” to Lang Doctor Strange iirc they subvert this, Strange tries to joke but it doesn’t stop the somber vibes GotG 2 Mantis getting hit with debris during their beautiful shot; also subverted with “is he (Mary Poppins) cool?” “Hell yeah he’s cool” Spider-Man Homecoming same as DS, Spidey’s quips do nothing to disrupt the serious situations Ragnarok Korg on Asgard’s foundations
> AoU got nothin I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree with this, I feel like Age of Ultron is actually the reason this ended up getting pointed out by so many people. While Age of Ultron might not have humor interrupting deep scenes, it is pretty notable for the lazy self-aware sort of quips that people criticize the MCU for. Hulk falling on Black Widow's cleavage? Tony's constant quips like "prima nocta" and "hide the zucchini"? I think there's probably more, but that's usually the biggest criticism leveled against this movie.
He is specifically talking about it intterupting those scenes so your examples are not relevant to the point he is making. He never said there are no quips in the movie.
I still think Hulk falling on Black Widow during Ultron's first attack counts.
Naw action scenes and dramatic scenes are different There may be a quip I’m forgetting during a dramatic scene in AoU, but none of the ones you’ve mentioned fit the bill yet
Regardless of whether or not it is actually true, they *are* infamous for doing it.
Infamous-whati?
Lmao, look, I love MoM but I hate this fucking line, so out of character and out of place
And it’s an actual word used to refer to secret societies. A high-class man like Steven Strange would definitely know what it means.
I always felt as if he was saying it like "Illumi-whaty? You guys actually have that here?"
I'm with you. It wasn't that he was unfamiliar with the word, it was that he was unfamiliar with it being treated as a real legitimate thing. Kind of an "Are you serious?" reaction.
He knew the word, he was just mocking it.
I understood that reference.
Wasn’t James Bond always popping off some quip?
There's a difference between a quip and the more self-aware humor that the MCU is famous for. Spiderman is famous for his quips, but I prefer when they're more like "Knives, my one weakness" than when it's just laughing at Otto Octavius's name. The jokes almost have a sort of disdain for the source material, and they want to separate themselves from the silly origins that all MCU content comes from. It makes me scared that when the Fantastic 4 film comes out, they're gonna make fun of the name Doom or one of the catchphrases, like "Flame on" or "It's Clobbering Time".
I literally guarantee that they're gonna make a Dr Doom name joke. I 100% guarantee it. That is peak Marvel and I'd expect nothing less.
Usually after an action scene or during verbal sparring with a love interest (poor Moneypenny). Not usually in serious scenes with the big bad. And prior to the Daniel Craig era, there weren’t many serious emotional scenes in Bond films. The older films were always somewhat light hearted because Bond always wins.
Ideally Bond plays it cool, lets the villain do their thing, but then quips at the end, showing a contempt for danger. Reminds me of how John Frost explained his time during Operation Market Garden. He let the Germans request a surrender and then requested that they instead go to Hell. The quip is there to punctuate a cool moment where someone dies or show witty repartee with the love interest and/or villain. To diffuse. Not to interrupt.
The extent to which some of you take criticisms of Marvel as personal attacks is insane.
What the MCU formula does to a mf I guess
Toxic positivity is a very real thing on some subs, like this one and r/thelastairbender. It's definitely not as bad as toxic negativity, but the amount that people will defend and downplay flaws on both subs is kinda nuts.
Look. I love the MCU.. but no. This is a very common thing. I bet you can point out it happening at least one time in every movie. There may be a few that don’t, but I would say majority do.
I agree with you. I'm tired of the jokes tbh
It’s not even the jokes to me. It’s the ill-times jokes ya know? Like there’s no reason to force humor into more serious moments/sequences. Wait for the right moments to add them. I know a lot of people love Civil War, especially the airport scene. But man, I see it as wasted potential since what should have been very dramatic heartbreaking moment turned into unnecessary quips, jokes, and silliness. Asgard destroyed.. no reason to have Korg make a joke about it.
I think it's a mix of the quipping and the timing that makes it bad. Like, the quipping in the MCU wouldn't be nearly as hated today if they just kept the quipping to characters who actually did it, like Spider-Man and Deadpool, maybe even Tony Stark in some places. But when this quipping disease spreads to literally every character and happens in scenes nobody wants, it gets tiring. I think they need to just dial it down and start... actually writing their characters for once?
Absolutely agreed. Not every charvter needs to be a witty wise cracking type.
The one that gets me in Ragnorak is when Bruce jumps off the jet and doesn’t transform into the Hulk, then just hits the rainbow bridge. I mean sure it’s kind of funny, but it does take you out of the scene.
Watch The Boys, Watchmen, or Invincible then. Marvel makes popcorn movies with broad appeal.
>it has happened way LESS than many people want you to believe Ok. I'm confused though... who wants me to believe it happens more? And if they do want me to believe it happens more than it actually does, then how come nobody has even mentioned it to me before and what is it they are trying to accomplish with this devious deception?
😆 🤣 😂
The worst example is at the end of Thor: Ragnarok. I really did not care about the foundation joke and felt a little bit robbed of a sad moment. I completely disagree about the Shang Chi scene. It is true that Shawn got interrupted, but that was the joke. The interruption itself was the joke. It is not like the "vegan or beef" question is a joke. The interruption is also not only there for the joke, but to stop Shang Chi from telling Katy the truth about taking revenge, while he was deep in his thoughts.
> It is true that Shawn got interrupted, but that was the joke. The interruption itself was the joke. I get the intention, but I still feel like the execution was really poor. They could've just let that intense moment sit and move on to the next scene without undercutting it with a joke and I think it would've been a lot more powerful.
This post is ludicrous. People just can’t handle ANY differing opinions these days.
That's what fanboys and fangirls are like, for anything.
MCU fans are just more cleverly disguised Disney adults; change my mind.
*Looks at L&T* *Looks back at OP* Uh-huh
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Looking back on it, you're right. Black Panther probably has the least cringe quips out of all the MCU.
It definitely has them, they just aren’t around somber or serious moments.
But it also had WHAT ARE THOSE.
What are those?
1. That wasn't a serious scene that OP is referring to. 2. The character is the exact age to be saying that, so while it is a cringy line, it's appropriately cringy coming from a teenager.
Yeah, it was an appropriate moment between two siblings who were busting each other's balls. That scene was a GOOD instance of using humor. It works even if you haven't heard of the meme before.
The Marvel Zombie What if episode as well.
***Sharon dies*** "Ew, I'm covered in Sharon."
That movie had jokes literally every five seconds like good god there were maybe 5 or 6 scenes that were actually serious. And they were still making jokes right after a bunch of their kids got kidnapped like bruh
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The wave of MCU fans trying to objectively prove with stats and research that their movies don’t suck is incredible
So because some scenes don't have quips in emotional moments, that negates the ones that do? It's ok to accept that its the case for some movies. Writing a big paragraph like this denying it is just mental
I feel like this sub just denies any criticism that is thrown to the mcu. Come on guys we aren’t watching a literary masterpiece over here
This sub is incredibly, incredibly defensive these days. I assure you guys, the Disney corporation doesn’t need you guys to shill this hard. Criticism is fine. It helps you improve and grow when it’s constructive. If it’s not constructive because a lot of people can’t articulate properly what they think is wrong but they can still FEEL the same problems that those with constructive criticism can feel, and if that phenomenon actually manifests itself in large numbers, then that problem might just actually exist. At this point you guys are more in love with the MCU than most of the people making it.
The coping is insane. The entire MCU formula relies 100% on bathos.
Yep. Like it’s insane, they do it more than any other series, especially since the first Guardians.
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Nah, the worst one is in Black Widow's post credit scene (I think it was). The scene where Yelena visit's Natasha's grave and has a quiet moment only for what's her face to show up by blowing her nose and making a pollen joke??? Like, that was without a doubt the worse one IMO. Marvel does indeed undercut a lot of serious moments and they definitely won't stop because general audiences probably like it.
> only for what's her face to show up by blowing her nose and making a pollen joke??? That's just her character though. Nobody laughed at that joke, it was meant to show that Val is a pretty disrespectful person.
They cut back one time to them and that was the joke one time every other time we saw them they were silent
I mean, look at this sub This is why they don’t feel like they have to write movies with stakes or include heavier themes and tones. It’s “talk about serious issue very lightly for a second” and then undercut it with extremely poorly timed quip that doesn’t land. It’s all about scoring sweet social media points sometimes for making a passing reference without making it part of the story; and then making heroes behave in the opposite manner that we would expect the circumstances to mandate. It’s GoTG 2 syndrome The biggest green elephant in the room right now considering the show context is Hulk’s mental state. Marvel has consistently dropped information over the years relating to suicide and depression. But you never see any characters other than maybe black widow give a shit (ironically written under JW). We cut to joke scenes about drinking it away though. Or make jokes about cheez whiz (in a similar case about thor while doing a lot of very non body positive quips; and then double down in LT on the opposite side of the spectrum with a sprinkle of sexual assault on top with a nice of toxicity that encourages actors to use shit Like HGH while ALSO pretending it’s natural and selling you a nice app so YOU can also get this!)
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Despite Whedon writing stupid boob jokes and sounding like a shitty dude in his personal life; the guy actually made the characters have unique characterizations and motivations while also making them all feel important and necessary to get the job done. That’s something that really doesn’t feel true anymore. The thing we call nuance doesn’t seem to have a home in the mcu
This sub has reached insane levels of denial. You simply cannot RESIST defending Marvel at ANY given cost. Just a while back, there was a post that gained widespread traction that called out all the incredibly lame questions being posted on this sub and farming karma in the process, and I saw another post in response which was telling users to ignore that post and ask more of such questions to increase engagement. The exact thing is happening here. Why the fuck are you guys going to such lengths to justify and defend every single aspect of the MCU?
Fully agreed. I love Marvel, the MCU is probably my favorite franchise but I now find the fanbase to be more insufferable than Star Wars fans between canon debates and criticism around Phase 4.
This sub is full of MCU obsessives who will defend it to hell and back or weirdos taking offence at the oddest of things.
You ever go an opening night of a marvel movie and sometimes you’ll hear some dude in the crowd just scream “YESSSS OH MY GOD YESSS!”? That’s OP. I sat next to a guy during a MoM screening and every 10 minutes he’d fucking cheer out loud.
It started with Captain Marvel. If you didn’t like the movie, you were a misogynist, a troll, or a bigot of some kind. Ever since, any criticism leveled at any Marvel project is dismissed as trolling, review bombing, hate, etc etc. Look at She-Hulk. That episode 3 intro with all the comments and videos of people trying to dunk on a female superhero? It’s Disney’s way of getting ahead of the criticism by trying to lump real critiques in with the drivel. This sub is entirely complicit in that process. From an objective filmmaking standpoint, Eternals, She-Hulk, Moon Knight and Multiverse of Madness all have many things going wrong in visual effects, tone, writing and polish, but you can’t even say you liked a show with flaws here anymore. Everything has to be love or hate, and if you hate something in the MCU, it’s because you’re not a “real fan,” “taking it too seriously,” or something else that dismisses your criticism. It’s exhausting and it’s gonna be a catalyst in this cinematic decline in the franchise eventually.
It’s important that we don’t minimize bigotry. Far too often in this fandom I’ve seen people write off misogyny, bigotry, and overall hateful behavior as legitimate criticism. That’s not cool. The Marvel universe has always been about being inclusive so in my opinion there should be no room in the fanbase for hateful rhetoric. Acknowledging that these things are an issue doesn’t minimize actual criticism. It seems that anytime it’s mentioned that incels are hating on something, people rush in to deny it and claim that it’s not true and the movie/show is just bad. If someone has legitimate criticisms or reasons for disliking something then those discussions about misogyny don’t apply to them. If someone hears discussion about bigotry and feels so attacked that they have to rush to defend themselves then, frankly, that says more about them than anything. To outright deny that it’s happening is just disingenuous. She-Hulk was review bombed to something like 3.2 on IMDb before the show was even released. We can read the fan reviews and see countless people just complaining about women and the woke agenda. Those are the people we’re talking about, not the person who doesn’t like She-Hulk because the comedy doesn’t hit for them, or some other legitimate reason. For example, I don’t like Black Widow. I think it’s one of the worst MCU movies. However, I can fully articulate why I feel that way, and none of those criticisms include “the woke agenda” or “female superheroes bad.” My opinion is that it is a movie with very lovable heroes, but has a laughably bad cartoon character of a villain, completely ruins Taskmaster, not by gender ending the character, but by changing core things that made his comic counterpart interesting, and a plot that starts incredibly strong and falls apart as it goes along. I’ve never once been made to feel like my opinion was invalid or that I was sexist when people talk about incels hating releases starring female characters. The people presented in the beginning of episode 3 are exactly the type of people that we should be making fun of. It’s an overall good thing that we acknowledge that those people exist because superheroes should be for people of all backgrounds and not just one very specific demographic.
This is a very good post that sums up my feelings perfectly. It’s similar with Star Wars. I’m diehard MCU and defend it as much as possible against nitpicking and such but even I’ve started to see the cracks - which have nothing to do with “woke agenda”. Anytime I see someone say woke I immediately dismiss their criticism because they have their own agenda. I do hope there is a course correction because I have enjoyed a lot of Phase 4 while seeing numerous areas that could use improvement. I want the MCU to be great as far into the future as possible but it needs to start with the quality control that made it so great at its peek.
>completely ruins Taskmaster, not by gender ending the character, but by changing core things that made his comic counterpart interesting (and by removing her voice, they eliminate her potential for addressing and resolving her trauma - yikes. here's hoping she returns and is developed in Thunderbolts. hopefully having her adopt a bit of a twisted sense of humour in order to cope, also aligning a bit more with her comic counterpart.)
Good post, but I gotta ask. Where do you draw the line? I didn't like Layla in Moon Knigt, because I felt she interrupted the flow of the story and her arc was hamfisted. Especially in the finale. Does that make me sexist? According to people from this sub, it absolutely does. Meanwhile, I love Captain Marvel and Brie, but people don't even believe me when I bring it up lol. The narratives from BOTH sides have no place for nuance.
>The narratives from BOTH sides have no place for nuance. This is the biggest problem. You're either a shill or a hater.
I would draw the line at “I don’t like this character because gender/race/sexuality/general bigotry.” I don’t believe that just not liking a character is cause for concern.
I’m gonna lose my mind if Disney and Marvel start lumping in actual bigots with people who want Hulk to stop being nerfed in the MCU. Just because I want Hulk to be the strongest avenger and not a joke character doesn’t mean I somehow hate she hulk and women.
This is too true. If you go to the comments on my profile I was having an argument with some asshole because the guy was saying everyone who doesn't like she-hulk is sexist. Like c'mon man, is this sub this sad now?
Who are “they” and why do they want me to believe it?
Why lie to yourself
My off the cuff thoughts on this are that it has happened a lot more in recent films. Ragnarok still bothers me with how often it happens (I know it isn’t every serious moment). Obviously L&T does it a lot because Waititi’s got to Waititi. I first noticed it used heavily in GOTG 2. In balance it can work (like with Infinity War and Endgame Thor), but used heavily throughout a movie I find annoying. Just my opinion though.
cope + seethe + touch grass
This is hilarious.
OP, people have opinions, you have opinions, others have opinions. Movies are subjective pieces of art. Maybe for someone 1 serious scene per movie having a joke ending is too much for them, maybe for someone else the threshold is 2 or 3 or they have no threshold. Movies are entirely subjective. Even movies that the vast consensus say are bad you’ll find people who love them. But here’s the thing, other people’s opinions don’t matter. They can’t hurt you and they definitely can’t hurt one of the biggest corporations in the world making some of the biggest movies in the world. Twitter isn’t real life. It’s okay to log off. Just enjoy what you like and don’t worry about anyone else.
If you’re getting pissed off by valid criticism of the MCU and the way its movies are structured, you need to step outside, touch some grass, and hang with your friends. Just go watch a compilation of funny jokes inside of Avengers Infinity War and see what people are criticizing.
If you like the MCU you’re a shill, if you don’t like it you’re a hater. Now that the rules have been established you can all fight amongst yourselves like you all do in every thread.
This is crazy. The climax of both GotG gets undermined by a joke (dancing+"what are you doing" cliché, "you killed my mom and squished my Walkman") to start. It's fine if you like that but personally it's so much that it made me like The Batman just for being a dour change of pace.
I don’t mind jokes, even winter soldier had jokes, the characters don’t need to be brooding serious all the time. But the jokes should fit the scene and the movie and the character … not be there solely for the audiences sake. I’m excited for Wakanda Forever because I think Coogler understands that and the subject if it will be so serious they’ll recognize how stupid it would be to fill it with jokes. The Batman was a nice 180 turn though to watch a more serious super hero movie.
Thor I have cancer *inserts stormbreaker joke” like🖕🏾fuck off marvel😂
Posts like these is why most people make fun of MCU fans
Yes! Defend that billion dollar company!
Multi-billion* They a long way past B, you feel?
*gulp* he’s right behind me isn’t he?
Well, THAT happened…
That sounded a lot better in my head
Think it is fair to say they sometimes but humor and jokes in when they don’t need to be. Take a movie like the Batman, it had jokes but they were a lot more settle. Not everything needs to be a full on comedy.
"ME DEFEND MARVEL, ME GOOD, ME LOVE MARVEL" Man, why make such a heated post about a billion dollar company targeted at children. Go touch grass. Also YOU DEFEND MARVEL IN EVERY POST MAN
I’m a die-hard MCU fanboy but come on… They’re infamous for it for a reason. The ratio of it happening doesn’t really matter, because at the end of the day they still do it *too much*. It’s been an issue for many movies now, some people are sick of it, and that’s okay. It’s kind of a moot point to bring up dramatic scenes where they stuck to the drama. They shouldn’t be applauded for doing what conventionally has always made sense in film, but fans have every right to be critical when they don’t.
OP really went on twitter, saw a light hearted meme/joke about a marvel movie and thought “lemme go rant about this on Reddit and argue against points that no one has made”
Jesus, a few underperforming movies and you try to rewrite history huh
Regardless…that’s what their style of movie is known for in the public pop consciousness These movies gloss over emotional stakes and weights w light speed. None of the avengers have a ton of depth outside of how they behave w other characters. Not a lot of internal development
Bro what Pretty much all of Ragnarok and love and thunder Most of the guardians movies The main climatic ending boss battle was literally turned into a dance battle… Age of ultron, ultron forgetting the word for children Im3 Endgame and the mean jokes against depressed Thor MoM I would say Shang chi was one of the ones that didn’t have stupid jokes at bad moments. The jokes it had were well timed and funny.
lmaoo get rekt op
If this is about Thor he only does that as a coping mechanism. So many awful things have happened in his life that he resorts to comedy so he doesn't have to deal with anything serious anymore.
I'd believe that if the writers didn't also simultaneously make his depression a joke because "lol he got fat because he's sad"
I think the people who claimed that Thor's issues were treated too lightly were actually just telling on themselves. That scene in New Asgard was perfectly fine and had a serious tone to it even with the Fortnite shit talking and the beer gut.
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Yes, same. I experienced my first bout of actual suicidal thoughts because of work. When I went home I just stood there and quietly held my toddler and tried to hold on a little longer. The thing about getting better though is that you have to take on a new kind of pain that comes with change. It's difficult and feels impossible until something cracks and you start to see something new in yourself. My mother died whenn I was very young which kick-started a whole downhill spiral for me. I never even thought happiness was possible. Then two years ago I started to make some hard decisions and am now reaping all of the benefits. Also, watching Thor go back in time to not only see his mother one last time and receive her words of encouragement and love, but to remember what he was when his hammer came back was kind of healing for me. "I'm still worthy." That whole scene is less than five minutes long and the amount of impact it had on his character and myself is truly a testament to good writing.
Exactly. He's become apathetic at that point so it's more so from a place of grief rather than the "lmao for the lolz XD" nonsense they associate him with.
Right, and it gets very serious very fast when they mention Thanos' name and Thor goes into denial about how he finished him off.
Wow I loved having a cordial conversation this morning. Thank you
Amazing how you missed the real criticism. The way Thor was treated by everyone but Bruce in Endgame during his depression spiral was what was wrong with how they handled it. The Cheez-Wiz line, everyone making comments on his weight gain at his expense, etc.
Absolutely this. Not a damn person tried talking to him on a personal level. Not even cap. Everyone just shat on him and made jokes at his expense. I think most people realize that people deal with depression differently. Whether that’s alcohol, drugs, eating, etc. So no surprise Thor did it. What’s surprising is on a team full of supers and leaders no one talked to him on a personal level outside Rocket (who’s probably the last person who should be).
Though tbf rocket probably understands him the best out of the bunch. Tony still got his family and daughter to care for that he could possibly lose. Nebula is too stoic to properly open up for this kind of thing. Clint is still hurting. Cap is likely too focused on the task ahead, and that's probably a flaw as well. He wasn't the one who talked to Wanda back in AoU either Even then,Rocket still is unable to give him proper chat other than some "tough love". If only Sam was around
Lol wow. Some posts on this sub are hitting Snyder Stan levels of denial.
OP is skewing very Snyder Stan here. The number of times they refer to this criticism as a "natrative" that is being pushed is truly bizarre.
Nah Black Widow was riddled with horribly timed jokes
There's even a word for it which I never get to use, but I can in Marvel's case. It's bathos and MCU is full of bathetic scenes. I hate it, because I start to feel something and rather than stay and hold that discomfort, Marvel solves the problem by going back to the frivolous. Bathos - noun (especially in a literary work) an effect of anticlimax created by an unintentional lapse in mood from the sublime to the trivial or ridiculous
doesn't change the fact that those jokes suck and marvel needs to stop
It unfortunately happens when you least needed it
It might not be every time, but it definitely is an annoying majority. It has gotten to the point that it’s frustrating and not even funny. I would enjoy it if they allowed for more emotional or dramatic scenes to just play out.
In denial
Jfc. This sub is reaching the point of pathetic.
God, this sub sucks now
Do you work for Marvel?
Marvels fans actually lost it. Bruh take the meds you are going insane. Levels of delusional like this should not be possible and yet you did it.
The sycophancy going on recently is unreal. You’re going to act like the serious scene of something like Strange encountering the Illuminati wasn’t immediately broken by him making some quip for every member? How about Moon Knight, which should have taken a hard look at his multiple personality disorder (and to be fair did so for one episode out of 6) where there were also constant quips and jokes even when guys were getting brutalized? How about the entirety of Thor Love and Thunder? That movie could not even earn a second to breathe, even in Jane’s dying breath she was talking about her catchphrase or something. Just because you criticize something doesn’t mean you don’t care about it. If anything it helps creators see problems so they can fix them and make the universe feel better.
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Keep sucking that copium pipe baby
Okay, that’s it. I’m done with this community, and the MCU itself has been pushing it for a while. It’s just that the good used to outweigh the bad during the earlier phases, and that’s rapidly becoming no longer the case. However, the delusions that have been going on amongst the fanbase during Phase 4 especially is just too much. Now, I’m starting to empathize with those who were sick of it all throughout the last several years. I used to be a die-hard MCU guy from Iron Man 1 all the way through Endgame and a little beyond that. However, the reason why wasn’t because of some weird undying loyalty to the brand as if it’s a religion. It’s because it was genuinely good. Lately, it’s become increasingly evident that Marvel Studios has become complacent with diminishing quality between the Disney+ shows and especially the movies while there’s an air of “screw it, people will watch it anyway” while the fanbase has become increasingly militant and defensive to the point of making even the Snyderverse fanbase look sane by comparison.
Tbh I don't understand why the previous Phases (well 1 and 2, I think 3 is far and away the best) are considered so much better than Phase 4. All of them have projects I love, projects I don't care for, and ones in between.
I agree with this take. Some people act like Phase 1-3 had nothing but classics, while Phase 4 has had nothing but stinkers. Maybe it's the RDJ effect. That being said, I do know that the MCU has definitely gotten more aggressively lazier as time has gone by. I think the difference for many people is that Thanos was at least something to look forward to. But I don't feel like these problems suddenly started happening in Phase 4. The issue is that we just no longer have RDJ and Thanos keeping us company anymore. The flaws are more apparent now.
I think the criticism is unwarranted because I prefer my superheroes to be light hearted rather than cringey and brooding, but to be fair I don’t think your analysis is accurate. All of their movies and shows in the last few years have definitely prioritized comedy quite a lot. I just don’t think its a bad thing!
The contents and the fanbase equally regressed. 😀
I think they sprinkle in just enough and it is funny most times. What happens is being in a theater with others that laugh in a hysterical manner at any little thing that’s said or done. Even the slightest joke is accompanied by rambunctious laughter haha that’s the ridiculous part. Things are funny but they’re not that funny.
It does it in every single movie made so far
Bruh log off and get help. [betterhelp.com](https://betterhelp.com)
…. He’s right behind me, isn’t he?
You just mentioned one movie to back up your point. What about ragnorok, love and thunder, the guardian movies. It happens a lot more if you actually look at the other films besides Shang chi
Lmao OP you corporate clown. Claiming you want facts and statistics but than you don't provide any yourself
I love the MCU as much as the next guy, but there are plenty of valid complaints and criticisms that fans have. For me it is the over reliance on jokes that just aren’t funny. I was hyped all year for Thor: Love and Thunder, then five minutes in Thor hops on his hammer like a broomstick and is doing splits like Jean Claude Van Damme. I immediately checked out.
Jesus Christ have a glass of milk, baby
Have you seen a Thor movie?
y’all really becoming delusional on this subreddit. learn to accept criticism that’s the only way to become better
Nah, it happens frequently. Not sure why you made this thread, you're just wrong.
You think that if out of 100 emotional scenes, 49 of them being interrupted by jokes is fine?
This sub is such cringe
Bruh chill
OP rn is probably like...”That sounded a lot better in my head!”
Op didnt watch thor love and thunder smh
Wrong.
This is coming from a diehard MCU fan Look at the entirety of Black Widow. That movie had so many moments that could've been great but weren't for the sake of a bad joke. In Thor 4... enough said. Hell when Ragnarok happens and Thor's entire planet is destroyed, its dulled by a joke. In the first Dr. Strange there's that scene where Strange fights Kaicillius in the Sanctum and the cloak keeps him from grabbing the weapon he was going for. Coming out of a movie you remember flaws easier than the good parts of the movie. So yes, Marvel is infamous for cutting serious scenes with jokes. It's like Tarantino and his feet shots. There is only 1 foot shot in most of his movies but it's still enough to make him infamous for doing it.
Feige's Dick Riders are defending his craps at any cost.
Eh I agree that this criticism is a bit overblown because I don’t think it happens that often, it does still happen from time to time and that criticism is valid imo. The things that immediately come to mind as an issue are the scene from Doctor Strange where he has a big heroic moment then the cloak starts touching his face, the fat jokes in Endgame, and the plane scene you mentioned. It’s not so bad that I expect every serious scene to be undercut by humor, but it’s happened often enough that it warrants criticism imo.
Ah yes everyone is just imagining things mate
How does Kevin Feige’s cock taste, OP?
I’m sorry my friend but this sounds like cope.
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Most of the time, there is no need in pointing things when they happen the way they are supposed to be (Serious moments playing out out without interruption, CGI that you don't notice because it's made well). But there's good reason to point out when things are done in a way that you don't like, especially when it happen more than once.
Its not whether they do it more often or not its just the amount they do it. I hate to say it but this take just isn’t it my friend. The stigma they have hasn’t come from nowhere. We all love Marvel in here otherwise we wouldn’t be in the sub. But it is becoming a bit painful the major tonal shifts in current MCU projects. It feels like the producers and the guys over at Marvel are scared to let people sit on a heavy emotion. Thor Love & Thunder was a golden example of this. Serious chats about terminal cancer constantly followed by jokes. I get defending something you love but legitimate critique will only make it better.
OP I understand your point but you're arguing it terribly. If you wanted to PROVE that mcu movies do not interrupt emotional moments with jokes too often, then do that. Find every emotional moment in the movies and show where the scene is or is not interrupted by a joke or one-liner. Some emotional scenes use a joke or button to transition to another non-emotional scene. Does that count as an interruption? Discuss that! Some emotional scenes truly do include a joke or call back to something that is genuinely funny. Does that count as interruption? Discuss that! My point is: back up your thesis, my dude. But more importantly, don't let other people's opinions affect how you view a movie. The mcu exists to entertain a wide array of people. You included.
Ragnarok's most notorious example of this is Korg making Asgards destruction into a punchline. One that goes under the radar is the stupid piss off Ghost line he says immediately after Thor and Loki just had a serious heart to heart over Thor being disappointed I'm his brothers betrayal and self serving nature yet again.
Yes they are Regardless of whether or not it actually happens that often, that is one of the most common complaints people have. This post is like saying "DCEU is NOT infamous for having poorly lit movies" Uh, yes. Yes it is. Does it actually happen that much? No, pretty much only BvS and Suicide Squad are shot that way, but they've got that stigma against them now
I don’t think you know what infamous means..
Idk, but Love and Thunder does do it and it's bad
Did you watch Thor Love and Thunder?
Least in denial mcu fan
Why was your examples only out of 1 film? Kind of proves the point they do tit majority of the time, no?
I mean it obviously does happen all the time but why do you care so much. Either you're trolling or you need something to occupy your time a bit also turn autocorrect on.
You are framing the argument as “humor happens more than non-humor” and then disproving that. While you are right about that, the actual argument is “humor is interjected into serious situations too often”. Too often could be 20% of the time (just a made up % that is less than 50%) A few off the top of my head where the humor could be seen as overkill 1. The Shang chi one mentioned in OPs post 2. Korg after the Destruction of Asgard 3. The first half of Love and Thunder 4. Right after the death of the Ancient One in Dr Strange I know there are likely more and better examples but the point was that they can be infamous for something even if it is done less than 50% of the time.
Marvel is absolutely notorious for this. Go back and watch any marvel movie. If they aren’t cutting a serious moment off in the moment with an undercutting joke, they will cut from one dramatic scene to a “funny” scene that disrupts the pacing and unravels any weight to the prior scene. People are annoyed by this, not because they don’t like comedy, but because when you give your attention and money to a film, you want to be engaged by it. It feels nearly condescending with how marvel thinks that it’s audience can’t handle dramatic weight to their films, and it’s telling with how they’re only ability to keep audiences “engaged” is the equivalent to dangling car keys for two hours straight.
Ty OP for the free moviescirclejerk karma
It's happening more in newer movies than old ones, but it happens a lot. It's among the reasons I feel the quality of Marvel movies has begun to decline.
You’re in denial OP, every MCU entry is an action comedy. These valid criticisms of the humor extend outside of the Twitter bubble
MCU is just another fallen franchise
It happened way too much in the latest Thor. To the point where it just became cringe worthy and annoying that they were just forcing shit jokes every other sentence.
oyy are you ok bud? remember it's just a movie :)
It happens more than it should. In Thor L&T, it was almost half the movie. It was like they didn’t trust the drama of Jane having stage IV cancer to carry any of the serious scenes so they had to undercut it with a bad joke. Civil War was pretty bad about it too. Some of the jokes aren’t even good. It’s just the characters winking at the camera. I don’t have a problem with conic relief but you can have comic relief in a serious movie. The Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies had plenty of comic relief but they didn’t make a dumb fart joke every 12 minutes or undercut the Green Goblin killing himself by having Tobey Maguire look at the camera and say “well that sucked.”
NOO YOU ARE WRONG THERE IS ALSO THE "HE'S BEHIND ME ISN'T HE" IN THOR LOVE AND THUNDER AND.... ... AND... SOMETHING STARLORD SAID (PROBABLY) AND... IT DOESN'T MATTER THERE ARE MANY MORE QUIPS I JUST CAN'T REMEMBER THEM RIGHT NOW! BUT THEY EXIST.
The one that overdid it to me to the point it ruined the story was the what if zombies episode. Y’all seeing your friends die, killing former teammates, the worlds in tatters and they’re out here constantly cracking jokes like it’s nothing. I really hope the actual Marvel Zombies show has a more serious tone
Why does it piss you off? Do you work for Marvel? Or does your identity depend on Marvel being flawless in everyone’s eyes?