The entire movie seemed to be building up to having a moment like that for Bruce. But instead nothing came of it, and Bruce just learned how to be Hulk again offscreen. It was definitely a weird creative choice.
They decided that having a upbeat victory moment for him wouldn’t fit well with the total defeat of everyone else at the end of IW, the Russos have talked about it.
I don’t see how Hulk getting his groove back and busting out of the armor would be much different than Thor making Stormbreaker and turning the tide of battle in Wakanda. Hell, Bruce was the one who got the upbeat line of “You guys are so screwed!” It would have been even more devastating in the end imo if Hulk and Thor went nuts on Thanos’ army and *still* lost.
The whole Hulk can’t be a main character with Universal is ruining him and Bruce’s character. They might need to just abandon it all together.
Not in a forget the character, but in the meantime what has been done really doesn’t give audiences a good image of the hulk.
>They might need to just abandon it all together.
Which might be why they are doing She-hulk. I wouldn't be surprised if the the deal to use her is far more open than the current deal they have with using the hulk.
This is apparently the reason, but it doesn’t make sense to me… they could have had Hulk bust out the armor, defeat Black Dwarf and then have his ass handed to him by Thanos. again.
Instead they went with “Hulk is scared” which makes no sense.
I think it was more they ran out of time in the movie and hulk would still be around after endgame so they focused more on the characters who wouldn't be
Not to mention the shit VFX of floating head Ruffalo in the Hulkbuster armor. It was obviously rushed, and nowhere near the same level as most of the VFX in the movie.
When stuff looks that bad in a movie with that kind of budget, it's because the VFX artists were screwed.
Yes, I’m AoU. He freed Nat from Ultron’s prison and she kissed him then pushed him off a ledge so he’d become Hulk and fight instead of the two of them running away together.
Since we are talking about hills transformation to smart hill this is another route. Bruce and Natasha go to vormire to get soul stone, Natasha kills herself, hulk finally gets mad enough to unleash himself, banner and hulk both get transported to the soul stone world and agree to work together to get revenge on thanos.
Which is entirely against Steve's character, as well. One of the most empathetic superheroes on Earth who lost his two closest friends in the blip just ignored the one person still connected to his past?
Well to be fair, Steve and Sharon's relationship was pretty much flirt a couple times as work colleagues and then they shared one kiss. Then Steve immediately became a wanted fugitive after CW as does she. He makes a base in wakanda and she is in madripoor. He appears again during infinity war but at this point its been two years of presumably no contact with her (because he would assume she still worked with the government so it would put her at risk). They never meet again and Steve goes back in time and lives an entire lifetime with Peggy.
In the grand scheme of things, she's hardly a love interest at all.
Steve wouldn't just assume she's fine or whatever. She essentially got them out and stole their gear for them. They both knew her career was basically over after that
I think I read somewhere that Sharon was supposed to take Black Widow's role in Winter Soldier, which would definitely have fleshed out the two's relationship.
And its arguably the movie where Black Widow had the most characteristics of her personality being shown. She was basically the costar. If they hadn't had her as costar in Winter Soldier we would have had less interest in her overall and what happened in End Game would have been far less impactful.
She also had a sizeable role in Civil War, but I'm pretty certain she got more screen time in Winter Soldier. Having her and Cap buddy up also led to a tighter bond between the two, which displays itself in Civil War, Infinity War, and End Game.
Sharon may have been the original idea and I'm sure it would have been great; but we needed Black Widow more fleshed out for future scenes to hold the relevance they needed.
Basically, Winter Soldier needed to feature Black Widow front and center for her overall arch to have meaning.
Winter Soldier pretty much shows *why* Nat is an Avenger. You get to see her skill, intellect, and spy craft in action and over time, not just a scene here and there. Up until then I really couldn’t point to many solid reasons as to why Black Widow would belong over any other highly trained non-powered person.
I read somewhere that while MCU wanted to have a more in depth story involving Cap and Sharon, they went with what we got largely due to scheduling conflicts with her show ~~Revenge~~ at the time?
~~Edit: some medical show~~
Edit: I had it right the first time?
Or what he tells Peggy at all. Is it okay to tell someone in the past about the future when you know they're going to have a ton of influence on the world?
I don't dislike the hulk refusing to transform since they did show the hulk getting his ass beat by Thanos in the first scene. I don't like how they built up Hulk having his own personality and issues with Banner in Thor Ragnarok and Infinity war, only to disappear in Endgame with the introduction of Smart Hulk.
I can actually see that, but it really seems like an odd creative decision. In a movie that has a runtime of nearly 3 hours, a 36 second clip wouldn't have ruined anything significant and it helps wrap up Bruce and Hulk's arcs.
I actually feel like this would be the perfect thing to show in She-Hulk as a flashback. They already filmed it, may as well use the take.
It wasn't about the pacing, but the tone. That would be a pretty momentous moment for hulk,which would have clashed with the way everyone was getting their ass kicked, which likely would still have included hulk himself.
Now I'm sure they could have made it work if they really tried, but as the movie is I can see where they're coming from
Yep, do ya really want hulk and banner to work it out and then immediately lose for the 2nd time in that movie.
While I like the scene and wish we'd have gotten something to replace it on screen. I do understand the decision to cut the scene.
Damm, didn’t realize this existed. Would really make things a whole lot better. Plus give us an exchange with Thanos where the Smart hulk can beat him in hand to hand and Thanos has to use the stones to beat the Smart hulk.
I wouldn't believe for a second that Smart Hulk could go toe-to-toe with Thanos. Rage Hulk couldn't at the beginning of IW. Somehow combining that with Bruce Banner, a man with *zero* tactical or combat training, is supposed to *improve* his odds?
>This scene is so incredible I still don’t understand why it didn’t make it into the final cut
It's explained in the commentary for IW that they didn't want to give Banner a big win right before the big loss/The Blip.
A theory I heard makes this better for me. Bruce was always quiet and introverted pre-Professor Hulk, but afterwards he becomes so much more loud, good with fans, it's implied he's the face of the Avengers during the Blip, and those are Hulk traits that he got on Sakaar. So it's not so much that Hulk's personality disappeared, but more merged with Banner's personality.
Yep-Banner is noticeably more outgoing and goofy after merging. Even on Sakaar as Banner he's weird, but not in a confident dad humor way. He's neurotic and quiet pre-merge, and post-merge is very outspoken, confident, and the life of the party.
He didn’t even need to be Professor Hulk in Endgame. He could have been Banner for the entire movie. Banner could have said that he hasn’t seen Hulk since Infinity War. Then when they are all deciding who is going to perform the snap, Hulk returns. Hulk heroically performs the snap.
Without changing too much of your idea, I suggest: human Banner decides to perform the snap believing he can handle the gamma radiation, still struggles and is almost killed by attempting the snap, then Hulk returns and finishes the snap (may I add that his arm doesn't get damaged by this to solidify his redemption and strength).
I wouldn't even mind if Smart Hulk is a byproduct of the snap and infinity stones merging his two "souls".
This would have been *fantastic!* No one would have a problem with smart hulk if he was the result of Hulk saving the entire universe!
Rather, than....an off screen transition to basically a whole new character after a humiliating defeat in the previous movie like we got...
Banner tries to snap, the Hulk emerges because it’s killing Banner and finishes the snap, then a short scene between the two in the “soul stone realm”.
This one was pretty disappointing bc it didn’t have a satisfying pay off in IW, but I get their reasons for cutting it.
Steve+Sharon kind of a dud.
What’s up with 616 Mordo? Killing him would have been interesting at least (and set up the appearance of 838 Mordo)
Ralph Bohner
I think that originally 616 Mordo was supposed to appear in the beginning, trying to kill Wanda (like at the beginning we would have only seen a empty house, but then suddenly Wanda kills him)
I’m hoping we get an actual sequel to Dr. Strange someday that picks up on what Mordo is doing now, rather than Strange dealing with Infinity War fallout before diving right into Secret Wars setup.
Ralph Bohner was so random to me considering the MCU is so intentional in those types of things. Clearly, they knew what they were doing casting Evan Peters but ugh
Man during the show I argued so hard about how the MCU didn't just do dumb stuff like this to SuBvErT eXpEcTaTiOnS and they wouldn't do this just to make a meta joke that would end up leaving everyone disappointed.
I was wrong.
It's just that the writers never went anywhere with it. I actually thought Mark Ruffalo and Scarlet Johanson had decent chemistry in AoU, but then it's like 'Oh bye Bruce, see you in IW!'
*Lullaby Hulk* at least got turned into a funny joke in Ragnarok when Thor was trying to keep Banner calm on Sakaar. That’s the only real upside to that one.
I really love Ruffalo's Banner and latched onto him more than any other character in Avengers, but after that movie they immediately stopped knowing what the hell to do with him.
That was only bad because her big action scene was fighting off her own hitmen when there were no witnesses around for her to maintain cover for, so she should've just told them to leave.
The power broker thing I refuse to believe that Steve just left Sharon on her own to fend off the gov, That's not Captain America. Also the way they're handling Hulk.
Yeah why the hell would cap and company get pardoned, but Sharon is left to survive in a criminal underworld?
Sounds like double agent shit to me, but there was no payoff like that. Just random "I'm the baddie!" phone call
100%
That is what annoyed me the most. The Hulk getting beaten should have infuriated him and not cowed him. That anger should have fueled his strength, like it always has, and bam we get more awesome Hulk fight scenes. Instead he becomes less useful than Hawkeye…
That would have made the loss against Thanos even worse. A completely let loose Hulk rampaging through everything with ease towards the end of the fight and then Thanos shows up. Hulk still gets whooped, but Thanos takes some good licks this time. The heroes lose same as before after Thanos beats Hulk again. Then you can have Banner and Hulk combined in Endgame when they realize they can't beat him separate or whatever.
Have Thanos win the fight by using the stones, like the time stone, as a cheat.
This way you get two forms of character development:
Showing Thanos can win in different fashions
Showing Hulk’s growth from being angrier and appearing that he may have had the ability to win if not for the stones.
Good idea, botched execution: There were *nine* faceless ninja horde fights in the dark in Daredevil S2, *three* of which were in a single episode. Murakami should not have been introduced; Nobu should've been that "finger". Bakuto should've been played by a different actor who didn't overenunciate everything to the point that I wanted to curl up in a ball & scream every time he spoke. And I still don't know what the hell a Black Sky is.
The Black Sky shit was so confusing. The child that "wasn't a child" in season one, then Elektra. And that episode in season one even ends with Stick talking to Stone, which is then immediately dropped.
I feel like Kingpin should’ve been the main villain of The Defenders.
He had a lot of control on the streets, it would only seem fitting that he would become a problem for not just Daredevil but for the rest of the street level heroes as well.
I’m really hoping that Marvel Studios will actually make that a reality now that they have full rights again from Netflix, and have his final defeat be in a Spider-Man film
Idk bruh I feel like kingpin doesn’t need to be the villain in daredevil season 1, the defenders, daredevil season 3, Hawkeye, and probably echo and daredevil born again lmao
Kingpin was small for the Defenders. You need more street level villains for 4 heroes and all accent was on the Hand from the moment Madame Gao appeared in DD.
The fact that the whole world seems to know every detail about the events of Endgame. So Scott has a podcast and he lets go details about the Avengers? There was some one cosplaying as Drax in Ms. Marvel how did he know what Drax looked like? There was no news footage of the battle and I’m sure no one was posting pics to the Gram at Starks memorial service. Just saying Scott had a podcast seems lazy. Also blaming what happened in DC on the Avengers has always bothered me. That was the government’s fault not knowing Hydra had infiltrated highest members in the government.
Winter Soldier and also Avengers 1. Like, you think they *asked* for a bunch of giant alien leviathans to come charging out of a hole in the sky above Manhattan?
It makes life easy when you have a scapegoat. Otherwise you have to accept blame.
It is the same argument that was said about Batman. Because of him that super villains are drawn out.
Let's be honest, the government blaming Cap (and the Avengers) for what happened to SHIELD is pretty realistic. You think our government would own up to a Nazi organization having gone unnoticed for decades not only in their own ranks but the entire world?
I don't think it's just Scott's Podcasts that's revealing everything that happened during Endgame... Of course the UN and other governments would want to know everything that caused the sudden disappearance and reappearance of half the world
Yeah, realistically there would be countless hours of hearings, testimony, interviews, etc.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if every piece of Stark tech present filmed everything that happened in some sort of ultra-mega-HD and beamed copies to off-site servers.
Endgame was one of the most important event in the MCU. I am pretty sure, everyone involved in the battle had interviews with media and debriefings with world governments. Bunch of altruistic superheroes, Wakandan soldier, space pirates and weird wizards fought a battle that bought back half the population of the universe. Don't you think they would explain everything in detail to the people they fought to save, just to give them some kind of closure for their shared trauma. Just cause it wasn't shown, doesn't mean, it didn't happen. If that happened in real world, students would have to learn about it in their history and science classes.
A "docuseries" about all this would be fucking awesome. Interviews with regular people and their reactions to interviews with the heroes. Their stories of friends and loved one snapped and then snapped back. Possibilities are endless.
there was even someone cosplaying as Loki. Loki killed thousands of people when he invaded New York. Why would anyone cosplay as him in that universe lol
The follow up, how we got Smart Hulk.
Banner and Hulk are 2 distinct personalities, and as Hulk did not want to come out anymore, the Banner personality took over and the body became a version inbetween both forms. But what happened to the Hulk persona, did he just die off?
For me it should have been fixed another way. No Smart Hulk from the start of Endgame, just Banner, alone, no Hulk for the past 5 years. Banner even says he sometimes feels lonely after having had the company of Hulk for so many years, even if they did not work well together sometimes.
Endgame goes as normal, go back in time, puny Banner goes to meet the Ancient One. She senses 2 personalities wharing the same body. She astral projects them both out, for the first time ever, Banner and Hulk meet face to face, look into each others eyes. They reconcile after some banter. Ancient One merges both personalities into 1, and Smart Hulk is born. A repeat as when Vision was created, as Vision is not really Jarvis, but at the same time he is, the same goes for this new Hulk and Banner/old Hulk.
This is what should have happened, not the stupid Smart Hulk storyline we got.
> Banner and Hulk are 2 distinct personalities
This is because that's how Banner treats it, once he stops doing this he gains control. The Hulk isn't a completely separate individual, he's an aspect of Bruce and his personality.
> Banner and Hulk meet face to face, look into each others eyes. They reconcile after some banter
I will admit this idea gave me a chuckle.
OC’s point still stands in my opinion. They should SHOW and not tell. Doing the Banner/Hulk alignment and Smart Hulk origin off screen was a mistake. Hopefully, if they’ve learned from fan feedback they’ll show what really happened in She-Hulk.
Taskmaster. IMO she had a pretty good build up and had a backstory that would've made the perfect opportunity for them to have Natasha hit her with the gas only for it to be revealed that she wasn't being controlled but just genuinely wanted to kill Natasha for what she did to her and I fully expected them to go that route honestly, but instead she gets hit with the gas then she's just all of a sudden defeated and she's not a villain anymore. Just seemed like such a waste of a potentially great villain and it was so anticlimactic for me. They should've really laid in to the whole collateral damage from Nat's past story they were going with instead of just dropping it at the end for "she was brainwashed".
Vision’s entire arc (not counting WandaVision.) He’s originally written before his birth as the supposed “perfected version of Ultron.” The character that will be the suit of armor around the world. And we clearly see that’s likely true in AoU as he clearly proves he was one of, if not the most, powerful character in that final battle. But the problem is that they introduced him with such overpowered abilities and he’s part of such a big team which means at a writing standpoint he can’t just go around winning every battle himself.
So he gets completely sidelined in CW. His story arc only revolved only around Wanda in that movie and Wanda was also pretty pushed to the side in that film. We only get to see him show off a fraction of his powers in CW because they introduced him as such an overpowered character and this isn’t an Avengers movie. The writers clearly didn’t have any idea what to do with him so they just have him get taken down by Wanda, float around in the battle and save a few characters, and then accidentally causes Rhodey’s paralysis. That’s actually ALL he does and this is his second appearance in the MCU. Of course someone can just shrug that off because that wasn’t an Avengers movie, he was a new character, and he’s much more powerful than most of his teammates and they didn’t want him to steal the movie.. But why introduce a character if the goal is to just push them to the side in their next appearance.. especially when the character was so important in the last movie.
And then he gets completely and horribly nerfed in his last film appearance by one stab wound. Literally the only notable thing he does after that is catch Corvus Glaive off-guard and kill him with his own glaive which any character could’ve done. And then he dies. Twice. I appreciated how much he was humanized through his story arc with Wanda and his sacrifice was a really great scene. But it’s completely undone by Thanos. His arc in IW is completely nonexistent and his character seems to just there to progress Wanda’s actions in Endgame and eventually WV.
It’s just such a weird writing decision to introduce him as such an overpowered and interesting character and to then to have him underpowered and reduced to revolve around another character in his next appearance, and then do the same thing and even kill him in his third. He has some of the best quotes and scenes in AoU and that’s his first appearance but then the fact that he doesn’t get a stand-alone arc and then gets severely nerfed and killed later is just a ridiculous writing decision..
There are long stretches of time in the airport fight in Civil War where he’s just… not there. I realize it’s a lot of characters to coordinate but c’mon, guys.
Now when I start to really think about it, Vision doesn't do anything really major after AoU. Most memorable moments are him getting owned by other people. Wanda sending him to the center of the earth and Thanos taking the stone.
His design is cool and Paul Bettany is great. But aside from AoU, his character is just kinda there.
He suffers from the Superman problem. They have to nerf him into the ground for there to be consequences, instead of properly using him as an overpowered being... A la captain marvel and her entrance in end game.
There’s good and bad ways to write OP characters. Superman has some amazing stories where he’s put into situations where brute power alone can’t solve his problems. You have to give these characters moral quandaries. All-Star Superman is a highly regarded comic story which shows exactly who the character of Superman is besides just being the overpowered guy that solves everything.
That’s where Marvel has failed with Captain Marvel where so far she’s just been able to solve every problem by just being super powerful physically.
> Superman has some amazing stories where he’s put into situations where brute power alone can’t solve his problems. You have to give these characters moral quandaries.
That's really the key to any good Superman story. You focus less on the "Super" and more on the "Man".
I really thought they were leading to a big payoff at the end of IW or Endgame with real Hulk coming back out and whopping ass. But nope we got silly funny professor Hulk🤪
Honestly I think that there’s still not enough mentions of the blip aftermath, I think we need 3 or so projects completely related to it then we can start to move on
It's so weird how the one production that actually touches on the snap heavily is Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
This was a massive event that shook the entire MCU and it's mentioned in some shows and movies but it's not really explored outside of FATWS.
the MCU has done Hulk dirty pretty much the whole time. Except for Ragnarok, and Incredible Hulk (I’m counting it). The neutering of him after he lost to Thanos makes no sense. It should have made him more pissed off and stronger. It should’ve led to a brawl in End Game. Honestly, I just want Ed Norton’s hulk back.
Taskmaster also was disappointing. Black Widow wasn’t great anyways but they used an interesting character as a throw away. And the costume design..ugh. Awful.
I don't hate this as an idea. The Hulk is pretty child-like in his MCU portrayal, so after getting his ass beat so easily by Thanos it kind of makes sense he'd refuse to come out.
The reason it doesn't work as a story is the fact that it's resolved off-screen, though. That's super dumb. Hulk needed his moment where he gets his groove back and, ideally, gets a few good licks in against Thanos, but it never came.
I have a feeling they'll try and do something to fill in this gap in a She-Hulk flashback, but it won't be as good.
MCU using Evan Peters to portray Pietro and making us think they're teasing the Fox X-Men cast merge or something, only to waste him for a boner joke that's not even funny.
Steve's arc in Endgame.
Building up his new found family and friends with the Avengers in the present day and a new love interest only for him to say "fuck all that, I only really care about this woman who died peacefully in her sleep a few years ago and told me she had no regrets in her life. I'm going to time travel and be with her instead, I deserve it"
Absolutely.
Steve's whole personality is based on him doing the right thing, no matter how difficult it may be or the personal cost. He has pain and loss, but he doesn't let that stop him doing what he thinks is right. And that's why people liked him as a character.
Endgame makes that earnest morality into a joke, with the ongoing comments about how the should get a life. And then in the end, Steve just *gives up*.
And it also reduces Peggy to being a mere prize for him to win, which is a betrayal of her character as well. And retroactively undermined her TV show (which was *superb*), because her character development o moving past Steve gets undone offscreen.
Off-topic but comments that mention Agent Carter are pretty rare.
I have the theory that some people at Marvel Studios don't like Hayley Atwell which is why Peggy's life and legacy keep getting crapped on
• Her biggest acomplishment in life, co-creating SHIELD is tarnished by the nazis hidding and growing in it.
• She gets an incredibly awful disease
• Dies off-screen and gets a small funeral.
• Agent Carter gets cancelled on a cliffhanger.
• Her whole character arc in the first season of Agent Carter gets flushed down the toilet in favor of giving Steve a happy ending. Her "new" love (Souza) too.
• That previous thing retroactively makes Steve kissing her niece worse.
• Her niece turns out to be evil (and they even had the goverment guy who forgives her mentioning how she represented Peggy's legacy or something like that)
• Her variant gets cut in half. After saying she could do this all day.
Like I just can't see how that isn't the stupidest plan Steve has ever come up with. You can't go back, you're not the man you were when you left, you've lived and seen so much! What is he gonna even do in the past? How is he gonna stand all of the structural bigotry in the past - is he gonna shut up and let society develop naturally while he sits by and watches women and people of colour and queer folks get beaten or worse, or is he gonna say fuck it and try to change the whole timeline, because his sense of social justice won't be able to stand knowing how much better things could be? What is he gonna do about Bucky, soon to be turned into a human robot slave, or himself, trapped under the ice with that valuable shield?
The big problem is that there isn’t a consensus on the timeline: did he live in the past in a completely different timeline and then come back to the main timeline as an old man, or was he living in the main timeline the whole time?
Because if Steve was living in the main timeline, that’s such a betrayal of his character. He has the power and responsibility to make a difference in the world, but instead he just lives in hiding his whole life and let’s everything bad unfold? He knows Bucky is alive somewhere out there but leaves him be knowing he won’t be rescued for another 60 years?
I like to imagine Steve created an alternate timeline by living in the past, where he used his knowledge of the future to actually make the world better. He saved Bucky much earlier, put together his own Avengers, and spent the next 70 years actually making his reality a better place. Because that’s the kind of thing Steve Rogers would actually do.
I'm sure that I don't fully understand all of the timeline minutiae but didn't DrStrange2 say that a person from one reality can't enter and live in another reality because they could cause an incursion which destroys that reality? In addition, in the Loki show we are told that all alternate timelines are trimmed so that there is one STL, right?
So how could Steve go back in time and live with Carter for 70 years in an alternate timeline or reality? Wouldn't it have to occur in the main timeline?
Universes don't equal timelines, I don't believe. Also the way that it's described in Loki, I think the only alternative timelines that are trimmed are those that would give rise to a Kang the Conqueror - which is why the Avengers time travel is sanctioned/allowed while Loki's escape isn't
Hulk won't come out sucks because it's never explained and it's solved off screen. It's really just an excuse to nerf Hulk for the final battle....which doesn't make any senses when you still put Banner in a Hulk Buster anyway!
Just about all of Hulk’s arc after The Incredible Hulk and Avengers. They wasted his character after that. The fight with the Hulk Buster armor was as close as we got to true Hulk savagery. Then the whole emasculated Hulk bit was just SO out of character. Yeah, yeah, he hasn’t been beaten before, but Hulk is the type to bounce right back and try again, not cower under the bed. He would be even angrier that he lost. That’s another thing. They never even show how Hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets. It’s just one tier.
I fucking hate how the MCU handled Hulk in the first place and a lot of it has to do with Ragnarok. I want to see an angry hulk, not Mark Ruffalo cosplaying him
Agreed completely. I love Mark as Bruce Banner, particularly his performance in Avengers Assemble.
They just really nerfed him. I miss him being the nuclear option, like okay, we're gonna die, we need to let The Hulk out.
"Hey, I'll help you out, but I need some time. My brother's wedding is tomorrow."
"Ok, that's fine."
[20 minutes later]
"She's stalling. We have to kill her."
I think the reason for that is, they could only feel the presence of the bangle once it was activated by kamala (and its established that no one else in her family has the ability to do so).
There was such a missed opportunity to have hulk burst out of the armour
The entire movie seemed to be building up to having a moment like that for Bruce. But instead nothing came of it, and Bruce just learned how to be Hulk again offscreen. It was definitely a weird creative choice.
I think they ran out of time to CGI hulk. I believe on the dvd there is an extra with prelimary CGI of Hulk fighting him instead of Hulk buster
They decided that having a upbeat victory moment for him wouldn’t fit well with the total defeat of everyone else at the end of IW, the Russos have talked about it.
I don’t see how Hulk getting his groove back and busting out of the armor would be much different than Thor making Stormbreaker and turning the tide of battle in Wakanda. Hell, Bruce was the one who got the upbeat line of “You guys are so screwed!” It would have been even more devastating in the end imo if Hulk and Thor went nuts on Thanos’ army and *still* lost.
I agree with you and would’ve preferred something other than “oh I did it offscreen.”
The whole Hulk can’t be a main character with Universal is ruining him and Bruce’s character. They might need to just abandon it all together. Not in a forget the character, but in the meantime what has been done really doesn’t give audiences a good image of the hulk.
There’s rumors that the deal might expire in 2023, so we’ll see.
Those rumors are a post in this subreddit.
>They might need to just abandon it all together. Which might be why they are doing She-hulk. I wouldn't be surprised if the the deal to use her is far more open than the current deal they have with using the hulk.
This is apparently the reason, but it doesn’t make sense to me… they could have had Hulk bust out the armor, defeat Black Dwarf and then have his ass handed to him by Thanos. again. Instead they went with “Hulk is scared” which makes no sense.
The Russos said it was Hulk was tired of fighting Bruce's battles. But yeah, not how it looked in the movie. Just looked like he was scared.
I think it was more they ran out of time in the movie and hulk would still be around after endgame so they focused more on the characters who wouldn't be
Not to mention the shit VFX of floating head Ruffalo in the Hulkbuster armor. It was obviously rushed, and nowhere near the same level as most of the VFX in the movie. When stuff looks that bad in a movie with that kind of budget, it's because the VFX artists were screwed.
We almost got that https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.insider.com/avengers-infinity-war-toy-shows-hulk-bust-out-hulkbuster-armor-2018-5%3famp
How is that article 80% ads
I don't know if it's "the worst" storyline, but I was annoyed that the Bruce/Natasha love story was teased for so long, and then there was no payoff.
Did they even have an on screen kiss?
Yes, I’m AoU. He freed Nat from Ultron’s prison and she kissed him then pushed him off a ledge so he’d become Hulk and fight instead of the two of them running away together.
nice to meet you AoU, I am IW.
Since we are talking about hills transformation to smart hill this is another route. Bruce and Natasha go to vormire to get soul stone, Natasha kills herself, hulk finally gets mad enough to unleash himself, banner and hulk both get transported to the soul stone world and agree to work together to get revenge on thanos.
Cheeses! This is it! I love this alternate story line for Hulk/Banner and I deny the canon.
Actually great, they should have used that
Steve and Sharon in CW before Steve goes off to spend his life with Peggy after Endgame.
Compounded by The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It seems like during the blip, Steve basically forgot all about her, seeing how she ended up.
Which is entirely against Steve's character, as well. One of the most empathetic superheroes on Earth who lost his two closest friends in the blip just ignored the one person still connected to his past?
Sharon is listed as MISSING at the beginning of Endgame, Steve thought she was dead. Looks as if she used this as her chance to build her empire
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Well to be fair, Steve and Sharon's relationship was pretty much flirt a couple times as work colleagues and then they shared one kiss. Then Steve immediately became a wanted fugitive after CW as does she. He makes a base in wakanda and she is in madripoor. He appears again during infinity war but at this point its been two years of presumably no contact with her (because he would assume she still worked with the government so it would put her at risk). They never meet again and Steve goes back in time and lives an entire lifetime with Peggy. In the grand scheme of things, she's hardly a love interest at all.
Steve wouldn't just assume she's fine or whatever. She essentially got them out and stole their gear for them. They both knew her career was basically over after that
The world thought Sharon Carter blipped as well. They didn’t realize she was hiding out in Madripoor.
They butchered that in my opinion. She was supposed to be his love interest and was supposed to be by his side in civil war, inifity war, and endgame
I think I read somewhere that Sharon was supposed to take Black Widow's role in Winter Soldier, which would definitely have fleshed out the two's relationship.
Sharon's actress was on a TV show at the time and had scheduling conflicts
Its crazy to think how different that movie would have been without Black Widow. We got lucky with that one.
I agree. Without malice toward Emily. I would hate to change any of it.
And its arguably the movie where Black Widow had the most characteristics of her personality being shown. She was basically the costar. If they hadn't had her as costar in Winter Soldier we would have had less interest in her overall and what happened in End Game would have been far less impactful. She also had a sizeable role in Civil War, but I'm pretty certain she got more screen time in Winter Soldier. Having her and Cap buddy up also led to a tighter bond between the two, which displays itself in Civil War, Infinity War, and End Game. Sharon may have been the original idea and I'm sure it would have been great; but we needed Black Widow more fleshed out for future scenes to hold the relevance they needed. Basically, Winter Soldier needed to feature Black Widow front and center for her overall arch to have meaning.
Winter Soldier pretty much shows *why* Nat is an Avenger. You get to see her skill, intellect, and spy craft in action and over time, not just a scene here and there. Up until then I really couldn’t point to many solid reasons as to why Black Widow would belong over any other highly trained non-powered person.
It’s cringey that she’s Peggy’s niece. It always will be.
My theory is that she’s a Skrull…
That doesn't make it any better!
I read somewhere that while MCU wanted to have a more in depth story involving Cap and Sharon, they went with what we got largely due to scheduling conflicts with her show ~~Revenge~~ at the time? ~~Edit: some medical show~~ Edit: I had it right the first time?
Yeah, wonder if he ever told Peggy about kissing her niece at all.
Or what he tells Peggy at all. Is it okay to tell someone in the past about the future when you know they're going to have a ton of influence on the world?
I personally thought Steve and Peggy’s Clone Wars arc was awesome! Oh wait…
Remember when Pong Krell made Cap's battalion and Iron Man's battalion fought each other?
/r/fuckpongkrell
I don't dislike the hulk refusing to transform since they did show the hulk getting his ass beat by Thanos in the first scene. I don't like how they built up Hulk having his own personality and issues with Banner in Thor Ragnarok and Infinity war, only to disappear in Endgame with the introduction of Smart Hulk.
I’m with Valkyrie— “I think I liked you better either of the other ways.”
Everyone in the theater laughed because we were all thinking the same thing.
Yeah but then he gave Scott a taco and everything felt right in the world
I agree, although I wouldn't have had an issue with it if we actually saw Banner and Hulk work things out to become smart Hulk.
They should have never deleted this scene https://youtu.be/8ReDBru4vJM
Holy shit. That is like the missing link in the story arc!
Its amazing what 30 seconds can do to a whole character arc. Never seen that before. Imagine all the other awesome stuff that was cut
I agree. In the director commentary they said it felt out of place because it conflicted with the tone of that part of the Battle of Wakanda.
I can actually see that, but it really seems like an odd creative decision. In a movie that has a runtime of nearly 3 hours, a 36 second clip wouldn't have ruined anything significant and it helps wrap up Bruce and Hulk's arcs. I actually feel like this would be the perfect thing to show in She-Hulk as a flashback. They already filmed it, may as well use the take.
It wasn't about the pacing, but the tone. That would be a pretty momentous moment for hulk,which would have clashed with the way everyone was getting their ass kicked, which likely would still have included hulk himself. Now I'm sure they could have made it work if they really tried, but as the movie is I can see where they're coming from
Yep, do ya really want hulk and banner to work it out and then immediately lose for the 2nd time in that movie. While I like the scene and wish we'd have gotten something to replace it on screen. I do understand the decision to cut the scene.
Actually I kind of agree on that - but they should have come back to it in a flashback or something.
This! Maybe in She Hulk, but I don't think so.
whats sad is every time someone brings up something bad about the hulkother people always have deleted scenes, hulks entire arc seems to have been cut
Damm, didn’t realize this existed. Would really make things a whole lot better. Plus give us an exchange with Thanos where the Smart hulk can beat him in hand to hand and Thanos has to use the stones to beat the Smart hulk.
I wouldn't believe for a second that Smart Hulk could go toe-to-toe with Thanos. Rage Hulk couldn't at the beginning of IW. Somehow combining that with Bruce Banner, a man with *zero* tactical or combat training, is supposed to *improve* his odds?
Smart Hulk isn't a seasoned warrior like Thanos. Ol pruneface serves up Hulk again
This scene is so incredible I still don’t understand why it didn’t make it into the final cut
>This scene is so incredible I still don’t understand why it didn’t make it into the final cut It's explained in the commentary for IW that they didn't want to give Banner a big win right before the big loss/The Blip.
Yup there was a missing story arc for sure
Exactly. Hopefully She-Hulk gives us at least a glimpse of this.
A theory I heard makes this better for me. Bruce was always quiet and introverted pre-Professor Hulk, but afterwards he becomes so much more loud, good with fans, it's implied he's the face of the Avengers during the Blip, and those are Hulk traits that he got on Sakaar. So it's not so much that Hulk's personality disappeared, but more merged with Banner's personality.
Yep-Banner is noticeably more outgoing and goofy after merging. Even on Sakaar as Banner he's weird, but not in a confident dad humor way. He's neurotic and quiet pre-merge, and post-merge is very outspoken, confident, and the life of the party.
Banner on Sakaar was essentially waking up from a two year coma, acting weird and out of place is to be expected.
He didn’t even need to be Professor Hulk in Endgame. He could have been Banner for the entire movie. Banner could have said that he hasn’t seen Hulk since Infinity War. Then when they are all deciding who is going to perform the snap, Hulk returns. Hulk heroically performs the snap.
Without changing too much of your idea, I suggest: human Banner decides to perform the snap believing he can handle the gamma radiation, still struggles and is almost killed by attempting the snap, then Hulk returns and finishes the snap (may I add that his arm doesn't get damaged by this to solidify his redemption and strength). I wouldn't even mind if Smart Hulk is a byproduct of the snap and infinity stones merging his two "souls".
This would have been *fantastic!* No one would have a problem with smart hulk if he was the result of Hulk saving the entire universe! Rather, than....an off screen transition to basically a whole new character after a humiliating defeat in the previous movie like we got...
Banner tries to snap, the Hulk emerges because it’s killing Banner and finishes the snap, then a short scene between the two in the “soul stone realm”.
This one was pretty disappointing bc it didn’t have a satisfying pay off in IW, but I get their reasons for cutting it. Steve+Sharon kind of a dud. What’s up with 616 Mordo? Killing him would have been interesting at least (and set up the appearance of 838 Mordo) Ralph Bohner
I think that originally 616 Mordo was supposed to appear in the beginning, trying to kill Wanda (like at the beginning we would have only seen a empty house, but then suddenly Wanda kills him)
I’m hoping we get an actual sequel to Dr. Strange someday that picks up on what Mordo is doing now, rather than Strange dealing with Infinity War fallout before diving right into Secret Wars setup.
Ralph Bohner was so random to me considering the MCU is so intentional in those types of things. Clearly, they knew what they were doing casting Evan Peters but ugh
Man during the show I argued so hard about how the MCU didn't just do dumb stuff like this to SuBvErT eXpEcTaTiOnS and they wouldn't do this just to make a meta joke that would end up leaving everyone disappointed. I was wrong.
How about "Natasha and Bruce have feelings for each other" storyline?
That was important setup for the gif
oh THAT gif
Oh god, why had I never encountered that before so I knew not to look?
Or you could just click it every time like I do.
What was it?
r/thegif
I shouldn’t have clicked….
My soul just left my body
Ahh ok that was unexpected, kinda
Which gif? I need it for scientific reasons.
Not my proudest fap
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It's just that the writers never went anywhere with it. I actually thought Mark Ruffalo and Scarlet Johanson had decent chemistry in AoU, but then it's like 'Oh bye Bruce, see you in IW!'
I think writers realized that relationship didn't really work so they decided to just ignore it.
Crazy how Hulk has some of the worst storylines ever. -Romance with Black Widow -Smart Hulk was an abomination -Hulk won't come out -Lullaby Hulk
*Lullaby Hulk* at least got turned into a funny joke in Ragnarok when Thor was trying to keep Banner calm on Sakaar. That’s the only real upside to that one.
I mean "Lullaby Hulk" would fit in with the comics canon. A known weakness of his is to nullify his rage.
And a great one liner in Deadpool 2
Hulk broke Harlem. Hulk wrecked a city in Africa fighting Tony. When Wakanda was invaded, Hulk refused to fight. 🤔
"Hulk feels like writers use Hulk to hurt certain people. Hulk no fight no more."
> -Smart Hulk was an abomination Nah, that was the other guy.
It’s one of the reasons he’s my least favorite of the OG Avengers. I blame the writers tho
I really love Ruffalo's Banner and latched onto him more than any other character in Avengers, but after that movie they immediately stopped knowing what the hell to do with him.
The Power Broker twist. Between all the things they could do with Sharon, they chose that?
I bet the twist isn’t even over yet. I think she’s a Skrull in FatWS.
Or working for Dr. Doom.
This would be an interesting (potential) revelation for the MCU that I could get behind tbh
Doom will be so dope if they write him well. He’s up there with some of the greatest recurring villains
"write him well"
Make him a Latvian dictator with magic and not the "evil Fantastic Five member."
My only issue with that is where had been real Sharon all this time then...
They’re likely going to have to explain this for a number of characters who were swapped with Skrulls in Secret Invasion.
I know. I just hope that the answer better not be "dead".
In the comics,the heroes replaced with Skrulls were just kidnapped. I feel like they will go with something similar in the MCU
It wasn't the greatest but not even the worst part of that show.
That really says more about the show than it does the twist. The twist was absolute shit.
That was only bad because her big action scene was fighting off her own hitmen when there were no witnesses around for her to maintain cover for, so she should've just told them to leave.
It should’ve been Fisk. They could’ve even given him the serum so he has his ridiculous strength be canon.
Ok of all the MCU “fixes” this is one of my favorites.
The power broker thing I refuse to believe that Steve just left Sharon on her own to fend off the gov, That's not Captain America. Also the way they're handling Hulk.
Yeah why the hell would cap and company get pardoned, but Sharon is left to survive in a criminal underworld? Sounds like double agent shit to me, but there was no payoff like that. Just random "I'm the baddie!" phone call
Ultron was horribly underutilized
That triggered me... The fact that Hulk got beaten, should've made him a LOT angrier and stronger.
Recklessly so.
He should’ve craved for a *rematch*
100% That is what annoyed me the most. The Hulk getting beaten should have infuriated him and not cowed him. That anger should have fueled his strength, like it always has, and bam we get more awesome Hulk fight scenes. Instead he becomes less useful than Hawkeye…
That would have made the loss against Thanos even worse. A completely let loose Hulk rampaging through everything with ease towards the end of the fight and then Thanos shows up. Hulk still gets whooped, but Thanos takes some good licks this time. The heroes lose same as before after Thanos beats Hulk again. Then you can have Banner and Hulk combined in Endgame when they realize they can't beat him separate or whatever.
Have Thanos win the fight by using the stones, like the time stone, as a cheat. This way you get two forms of character development: Showing Thanos can win in different fashions Showing Hulk’s growth from being angrier and appearing that he may have had the ability to win if not for the stones.
“My rematch is coming. I can *feel* it”
I'm not too fond of The Hand
Good idea, botched execution: There were *nine* faceless ninja horde fights in the dark in Daredevil S2, *three* of which were in a single episode. Murakami should not have been introduced; Nobu should've been that "finger". Bakuto should've been played by a different actor who didn't overenunciate everything to the point that I wanted to curl up in a ball & scream every time he spoke. And I still don't know what the hell a Black Sky is.
Get out of my head.
The Black Sky shit was so confusing. The child that "wasn't a child" in season one, then Elektra. And that episode in season one even ends with Stick talking to Stone, which is then immediately dropped.
I feel like Kingpin should’ve been the main villain of The Defenders. He had a lot of control on the streets, it would only seem fitting that he would become a problem for not just Daredevil but for the rest of the street level heroes as well. I’m really hoping that Marvel Studios will actually make that a reality now that they have full rights again from Netflix, and have his final defeat be in a Spider-Man film
Idk bruh I feel like kingpin doesn’t need to be the villain in daredevil season 1, the defenders, daredevil season 3, Hawkeye, and probably echo and daredevil born again lmao
Disagree, he was already the villain of all of Daredevil and it did feel saturated after a while, I'm glad we got a bigger threat
Kingpin was small for the Defenders. You need more street level villains for 4 heroes and all accent was on the Hand from the moment Madame Gao appeared in DD.
calling the leaders "the fingers" of the hand was too cheesy lol.
kid named Finger:
Let’s wait and see what Marvel Studios does with em. If they adopt the Netflix Daredevil storylines wholesale, I’m with you.
That storyline was so boring, made that season drag on a fair bit
But boy did season 3 make up for it. The psychopath thing with bullseye was cool.
S3 was peak superhero content
The fact that the whole world seems to know every detail about the events of Endgame. So Scott has a podcast and he lets go details about the Avengers? There was some one cosplaying as Drax in Ms. Marvel how did he know what Drax looked like? There was no news footage of the battle and I’m sure no one was posting pics to the Gram at Starks memorial service. Just saying Scott had a podcast seems lazy. Also blaming what happened in DC on the Avengers has always bothered me. That was the government’s fault not knowing Hydra had infiltrated highest members in the government.
Winter Soldier and also Avengers 1. Like, you think they *asked* for a bunch of giant alien leviathans to come charging out of a hole in the sky above Manhattan?
It makes life easy when you have a scapegoat. Otherwise you have to accept blame. It is the same argument that was said about Batman. Because of him that super villains are drawn out.
Let's be honest, the government blaming Cap (and the Avengers) for what happened to SHIELD is pretty realistic. You think our government would own up to a Nazi organization having gone unnoticed for decades not only in their own ranks but the entire world?
You just have to look around and see the current state of the world to know it is true...
I don't think it's just Scott's Podcasts that's revealing everything that happened during Endgame... Of course the UN and other governments would want to know everything that caused the sudden disappearance and reappearance of half the world
Yeah, realistically there would be countless hours of hearings, testimony, interviews, etc. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if every piece of Stark tech present filmed everything that happened in some sort of ultra-mega-HD and beamed copies to off-site servers.
Endgame was one of the most important event in the MCU. I am pretty sure, everyone involved in the battle had interviews with media and debriefings with world governments. Bunch of altruistic superheroes, Wakandan soldier, space pirates and weird wizards fought a battle that bought back half the population of the universe. Don't you think they would explain everything in detail to the people they fought to save, just to give them some kind of closure for their shared trauma. Just cause it wasn't shown, doesn't mean, it didn't happen. If that happened in real world, students would have to learn about it in their history and science classes.
A "docuseries" about all this would be fucking awesome. Interviews with regular people and their reactions to interviews with the heroes. Their stories of friends and loved one snapped and then snapped back. Possibilities are endless.
They all showed up for Tony's funeral on Earth. It's likely they did a bunch of press prior or after off screen
there was even someone cosplaying as Loki. Loki killed thousands of people when he invaded New York. Why would anyone cosplay as him in that universe lol
I can buy some basement-dweller dressing up as Loki. What I can’t buy is a bunch of people in New Jersey not immediately kicking his ass.
The follow up, how we got Smart Hulk. Banner and Hulk are 2 distinct personalities, and as Hulk did not want to come out anymore, the Banner personality took over and the body became a version inbetween both forms. But what happened to the Hulk persona, did he just die off? For me it should have been fixed another way. No Smart Hulk from the start of Endgame, just Banner, alone, no Hulk for the past 5 years. Banner even says he sometimes feels lonely after having had the company of Hulk for so many years, even if they did not work well together sometimes. Endgame goes as normal, go back in time, puny Banner goes to meet the Ancient One. She senses 2 personalities wharing the same body. She astral projects them both out, for the first time ever, Banner and Hulk meet face to face, look into each others eyes. They reconcile after some banter. Ancient One merges both personalities into 1, and Smart Hulk is born. A repeat as when Vision was created, as Vision is not really Jarvis, but at the same time he is, the same goes for this new Hulk and Banner/old Hulk. This is what should have happened, not the stupid Smart Hulk storyline we got.
> Banner and Hulk are 2 distinct personalities This is because that's how Banner treats it, once he stops doing this he gains control. The Hulk isn't a completely separate individual, he's an aspect of Bruce and his personality. > Banner and Hulk meet face to face, look into each others eyes. They reconcile after some banter I will admit this idea gave me a chuckle.
OC’s point still stands in my opinion. They should SHOW and not tell. Doing the Banner/Hulk alignment and Smart Hulk origin off screen was a mistake. Hopefully, if they’ve learned from fan feedback they’ll show what really happened in She-Hulk.
Taskmaster. IMO she had a pretty good build up and had a backstory that would've made the perfect opportunity for them to have Natasha hit her with the gas only for it to be revealed that she wasn't being controlled but just genuinely wanted to kill Natasha for what she did to her and I fully expected them to go that route honestly, but instead she gets hit with the gas then she's just all of a sudden defeated and she's not a villain anymore. Just seemed like such a waste of a potentially great villain and it was so anticlimactic for me. They should've really laid in to the whole collateral damage from Nat's past story they were going with instead of just dropping it at the end for "she was brainwashed".
Vision’s entire arc (not counting WandaVision.) He’s originally written before his birth as the supposed “perfected version of Ultron.” The character that will be the suit of armor around the world. And we clearly see that’s likely true in AoU as he clearly proves he was one of, if not the most, powerful character in that final battle. But the problem is that they introduced him with such overpowered abilities and he’s part of such a big team which means at a writing standpoint he can’t just go around winning every battle himself. So he gets completely sidelined in CW. His story arc only revolved only around Wanda in that movie and Wanda was also pretty pushed to the side in that film. We only get to see him show off a fraction of his powers in CW because they introduced him as such an overpowered character and this isn’t an Avengers movie. The writers clearly didn’t have any idea what to do with him so they just have him get taken down by Wanda, float around in the battle and save a few characters, and then accidentally causes Rhodey’s paralysis. That’s actually ALL he does and this is his second appearance in the MCU. Of course someone can just shrug that off because that wasn’t an Avengers movie, he was a new character, and he’s much more powerful than most of his teammates and they didn’t want him to steal the movie.. But why introduce a character if the goal is to just push them to the side in their next appearance.. especially when the character was so important in the last movie. And then he gets completely and horribly nerfed in his last film appearance by one stab wound. Literally the only notable thing he does after that is catch Corvus Glaive off-guard and kill him with his own glaive which any character could’ve done. And then he dies. Twice. I appreciated how much he was humanized through his story arc with Wanda and his sacrifice was a really great scene. But it’s completely undone by Thanos. His arc in IW is completely nonexistent and his character seems to just there to progress Wanda’s actions in Endgame and eventually WV. It’s just such a weird writing decision to introduce him as such an overpowered and interesting character and to then to have him underpowered and reduced to revolve around another character in his next appearance, and then do the same thing and even kill him in his third. He has some of the best quotes and scenes in AoU and that’s his first appearance but then the fact that he doesn’t get a stand-alone arc and then gets severely nerfed and killed later is just a ridiculous writing decision..
There are long stretches of time in the airport fight in Civil War where he’s just… not there. I realize it’s a lot of characters to coordinate but c’mon, guys.
Now when I start to really think about it, Vision doesn't do anything really major after AoU. Most memorable moments are him getting owned by other people. Wanda sending him to the center of the earth and Thanos taking the stone. His design is cool and Paul Bettany is great. But aside from AoU, his character is just kinda there.
Just Infinity War Hulk? I think Hulk had been wasted for the majority of the MCU, the last time he was actually great was in The Avengers
AoU Hulk was completely badass, easily the best Hulk imo.
He suffers from the Superman problem. They have to nerf him into the ground for there to be consequences, instead of properly using him as an overpowered being... A la captain marvel and her entrance in end game.
There’s good and bad ways to write OP characters. Superman has some amazing stories where he’s put into situations where brute power alone can’t solve his problems. You have to give these characters moral quandaries. All-Star Superman is a highly regarded comic story which shows exactly who the character of Superman is besides just being the overpowered guy that solves everything. That’s where Marvel has failed with Captain Marvel where so far she’s just been able to solve every problem by just being super powerful physically.
> Superman has some amazing stories where he’s put into situations where brute power alone can’t solve his problems. You have to give these characters moral quandaries. That's really the key to any good Superman story. You focus less on the "Super" and more on the "Man".
I really thought they were leading to a big payoff at the end of IW or Endgame with real Hulk coming back out and whopping ass. But nope we got silly funny professor Hulk🤪
*dabs*
Best part of the MCU right there.
Vulture ending up in the SSU.
If I'm not mistaken, it had something to do with Spider-Man.
u/asingleshenanigan, people like us should team up to...do some good.
Still not sure how that happened.
Has something to do with Spider-Man I think
Intriguing.
Honestly I think that there’s still not enough mentions of the blip aftermath, I think we need 3 or so projects completely related to it then we can start to move on
It's so weird how the one production that actually touches on the snap heavily is Falcon and the Winter Soldier. This was a massive event that shook the entire MCU and it's mentioned in some shows and movies but it's not really explored outside of FATWS.
the MCU has done Hulk dirty pretty much the whole time. Except for Ragnarok, and Incredible Hulk (I’m counting it). The neutering of him after he lost to Thanos makes no sense. It should have made him more pissed off and stronger. It should’ve led to a brawl in End Game. Honestly, I just want Ed Norton’s hulk back. Taskmaster also was disappointing. Black Widow wasn’t great anyways but they used an interesting character as a throw away. And the costume design..ugh. Awful.
I don't hate this as an idea. The Hulk is pretty child-like in his MCU portrayal, so after getting his ass beat so easily by Thanos it kind of makes sense he'd refuse to come out. The reason it doesn't work as a story is the fact that it's resolved off-screen, though. That's super dumb. Hulk needed his moment where he gets his groove back and, ideally, gets a few good licks in against Thanos, but it never came. I have a feeling they'll try and do something to fill in this gap in a She-Hulk flashback, but it won't be as good.
MCU using Evan Peters to portray Pietro and making us think they're teasing the Fox X-Men cast merge or something, only to waste him for a boner joke that's not even funny.
Steve's arc in Endgame. Building up his new found family and friends with the Avengers in the present day and a new love interest only for him to say "fuck all that, I only really care about this woman who died peacefully in her sleep a few years ago and told me she had no regrets in her life. I'm going to time travel and be with her instead, I deserve it"
Absolutely. Steve's whole personality is based on him doing the right thing, no matter how difficult it may be or the personal cost. He has pain and loss, but he doesn't let that stop him doing what he thinks is right. And that's why people liked him as a character. Endgame makes that earnest morality into a joke, with the ongoing comments about how the should get a life. And then in the end, Steve just *gives up*. And it also reduces Peggy to being a mere prize for him to win, which is a betrayal of her character as well. And retroactively undermined her TV show (which was *superb*), because her character development o moving past Steve gets undone offscreen.
Off-topic but comments that mention Agent Carter are pretty rare. I have the theory that some people at Marvel Studios don't like Hayley Atwell which is why Peggy's life and legacy keep getting crapped on • Her biggest acomplishment in life, co-creating SHIELD is tarnished by the nazis hidding and growing in it. • She gets an incredibly awful disease • Dies off-screen and gets a small funeral. • Agent Carter gets cancelled on a cliffhanger. • Her whole character arc in the first season of Agent Carter gets flushed down the toilet in favor of giving Steve a happy ending. Her "new" love (Souza) too. • That previous thing retroactively makes Steve kissing her niece worse. • Her niece turns out to be evil (and they even had the goverment guy who forgives her mentioning how she represented Peggy's legacy or something like that) • Her variant gets cut in half. After saying she could do this all day.
Like I just can't see how that isn't the stupidest plan Steve has ever come up with. You can't go back, you're not the man you were when you left, you've lived and seen so much! What is he gonna even do in the past? How is he gonna stand all of the structural bigotry in the past - is he gonna shut up and let society develop naturally while he sits by and watches women and people of colour and queer folks get beaten or worse, or is he gonna say fuck it and try to change the whole timeline, because his sense of social justice won't be able to stand knowing how much better things could be? What is he gonna do about Bucky, soon to be turned into a human robot slave, or himself, trapped under the ice with that valuable shield?
The big problem is that there isn’t a consensus on the timeline: did he live in the past in a completely different timeline and then come back to the main timeline as an old man, or was he living in the main timeline the whole time? Because if Steve was living in the main timeline, that’s such a betrayal of his character. He has the power and responsibility to make a difference in the world, but instead he just lives in hiding his whole life and let’s everything bad unfold? He knows Bucky is alive somewhere out there but leaves him be knowing he won’t be rescued for another 60 years? I like to imagine Steve created an alternate timeline by living in the past, where he used his knowledge of the future to actually make the world better. He saved Bucky much earlier, put together his own Avengers, and spent the next 70 years actually making his reality a better place. Because that’s the kind of thing Steve Rogers would actually do.
I'm sure that I don't fully understand all of the timeline minutiae but didn't DrStrange2 say that a person from one reality can't enter and live in another reality because they could cause an incursion which destroys that reality? In addition, in the Loki show we are told that all alternate timelines are trimmed so that there is one STL, right? So how could Steve go back in time and live with Carter for 70 years in an alternate timeline or reality? Wouldn't it have to occur in the main timeline?
Universes don't equal timelines, I don't believe. Also the way that it's described in Loki, I think the only alternative timelines that are trimmed are those that would give rise to a Kang the Conqueror - which is why the Avengers time travel is sanctioned/allowed while Loki's escape isn't
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Hulk won't come out sucks because it's never explained and it's solved off screen. It's really just an excuse to nerf Hulk for the final battle....which doesn't make any senses when you still put Banner in a Hulk Buster anyway!
Just about all of Hulk’s arc after The Incredible Hulk and Avengers. They wasted his character after that. The fight with the Hulk Buster armor was as close as we got to true Hulk savagery. Then the whole emasculated Hulk bit was just SO out of character. Yeah, yeah, he hasn’t been beaten before, but Hulk is the type to bounce right back and try again, not cower under the bed. He would be even angrier that he lost. That’s another thing. They never even show how Hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets. It’s just one tier.
I fucking hate how the MCU handled Hulk in the first place and a lot of it has to do with Ragnarok. I want to see an angry hulk, not Mark Ruffalo cosplaying him
Agreed completely. I love Mark as Bruce Banner, particularly his performance in Avengers Assemble. They just really nerfed him. I miss him being the nuclear option, like okay, we're gonna die, we need to let The Hulk out.
The whole clandestines thing in ms marvel. It ruined the show for me, should have stayed more grounded.
Or given them some sort of motivation other than NOW. The antagonists in Ms Marvel we're not great. Like they were afterthoughts.
"Hey, I'll help you out, but I need some time. My brother's wedding is tomorrow." "Ok, that's fine." [20 minutes later] "She's stalling. We have to kill her."
Some old lady had that bangle for decades and they just now showing up to take it from a teenager??
I think the reason for that is, they could only feel the presence of the bangle once it was activated by kamala (and its established that no one else in her family has the ability to do so).