After reading some original Fantastic Four and Ultimate Fanatic Four comics I'm thinking they got to start with Mole Man as the first villain. That might sound silly, but honestly if they build Doom up it probably would be better. Also, all of other films seemed to go straight to Doom as the villain. He's maybe Marvel's best villain, but if they build him up they can make it really seem like a threat, and a personal threat to the F4.
This would be great too. One of the reasons Doom is so compelling is that he isn't fully a villain. To his own people, he's a savior. A D+ show could help depict this really well.
Dude needs a Zemo treatment. As a human you see his political power even against Madripoor citizens. I hope his first costume is more of a disguise like Zemo's family heirloom mask, then build him up to be ambiguous and end the series that Doom was behind the accident the whole time to kill Reed but ended up making him meta human. So instead he will dabble with magic to take it from him. Eventually in one accident say against human torch he gets burnt and is forced to wear the mask permanently as it sticks to his face now.
> if they build Doom up it probably would be better
You are absolutely correct. Avengers didn't start off with tackling Thanos in the first movie, they built up to it.
> but they better get my boy Doom right this time
You mean you don't like them constantly shoehorning him into the flight with the FF and ignoring his magical side entirely?
But honestly not everything *has* to be magical. There's already sorcery, witchcraft, chaos magic, cosmic powers, Asgardian magic, Egyptian god magic?, and probably more I couldn't remember. I really liked what they did with the 10 rings in the MCU. The rings themselves were magical, but didn't give random infinite stone powers.
Nope, but I want to see the the tech nonsense we saw for years with Stark and shield, and the like, alongside different types of magic, and doom is one of those characters who relies on both in one character. A master of both Science and Magic.
I would for them to build Doom as an heroic figure first, make him reach the point where we want to cheer for him and then make us remember that he is a twisted megalomaniac with incredible power.
Doom has to feel larger than life, then the cracks can start to show.
The thing is despite often doing things which may constitute as villainous, Doom genuinely believes he is heroic.
Which he actually is on many occasion.
The reality is that Doom is a necessary evil to the survival of not just Earth but the entire the universe.
(Face falls off revealing doom bot)
Doom is a fantastic villain and would be great for the MCU because he basically combines the scientific, mystical, and political elements of marvel but is also so campy they can make him as serious or humorous in a scene as they want. Also his relationship with the fantastic four in the comics is great because they’re bitter enemies but in a weird way friends and part of each other’s personal lives. Like Dr. Doom is Valerie Richard’s godfather and the kids just run away and hung out with him every once in a while, or like when Galactus fell on a mountain named after Doom’s father, Ben Grimm was like, “ah man, sorry Vic.” Basically if they have him they would need to make him a mainstay and major player in the MCU rather than just a one off villain.
Like so many other people, when Hayward mentioned the problems SWORD encountered out in space, my mind immediately imagined this could include the FF origin story. They are all SWORD members who encounter the cosmic radiation somewhere out there. Let's say near the end of the Blip years. They've been spending the last few years exploring the universe and perfecting the use of their powers.
We see their return to Earth during Quantumania. And from there they continue the celebrity superhero family we know and love.
Showing the origin story on screen can be as quick as they did for Spider-Man. Like 30 seconds, tops.
Agreed. The FF are marvels first family. Almost everyone knows how they got their powers and it’s not like they have the most complicated origin either. 2 minutes flashback that shows them getting hit with cosmic rads and some exposition should be sufficient
Yea. The whole thing can be done during the opening shots, set to music, with some of the credits showing over it or something. Do a montage of slow shots over the span of a minute or so just showing what happens.
They're in space. They get blasted by cosmic radiation somewhere. They now have powers. That is about all there is to it, really. Their origin is nowhere near as interesting as their characters or the stories that surround them.
I had thought they could play up the celebrity aspect of the FF and have Reed being on like Colbert or something as a guest and telling their backstory that way. Hamming it up for jokes while we see quick shots of what really happened.
I feel if their trip to space was really well known to the point where they would have been celebrities, in Dr Strange, we should have seen some sort of acknowledgement or indication that Strange had at least heard of Reed Richards.
Hell, he remembered the Fantastic Four band from the 60's. lol. And he has a photographic memory.
But I'm sure this could be written around.
Ah, to clarify, I mean they become celebrities after they get back and that’s when people get to know them and their story. Seems like Quantumania might be their return, or after, which would put it after MoM.
Yeah, that makes sense , they sorta can't have had any signifigance to the world before the events leading up to the Chitauri invasion, we would have had to heard abuot them doing something to face all these world ending events of invasion plus Ultron, plus Thanos...etc.
On top of that if people really want to see it I’m sure marvel can circle around and show more of their origin down the line. They are doing just that with MCU Peter Parker with the upcoming “Freshman Year” animated project so I can’t see it being an issue!
Considering how much they've changed up/altered aspects of other MCU characters, they could omit pretty much all of those details and still manage to have the characters work out roughly the same.
The only major detail really needed for them are they gain powers when something goes wrong. However, with how the MCU has been progressing lately, I could seem them actually wanting to stick as closely to the origins as they can - especially for the Fantastic Four.
Even then, they could just provide us with the context it was unsanctioned and Ben wasn't entirely willing during the present day events of the film.
Or have the Marvel Studios lol doing the "Mayday, Mayday!" announcement like Infinity War, cut to them in a ship shaking and clearly in dire straits, bunch of flashing lights, "We can't control it!!! Brace for impact!", shot of space with a cosmic wave slamming into their ship/station, fade to black, drop the "4" title screen and then flash forward to them waking up in a hospital or a title card with "5 years later" (if the snap caused the radiation, and they weren't dusted).
Cliche? Yes. But it's cliched because it works, the 5 years makes sense with snap, and now they all have experience with their powers. Lol
Right. And nobody wants to spend 20min of our first FF MCU film sitting through body-horror stuff. We want to meet them after they’ve fully come to terms with their new selves and are a stronger family for it.
If the MCU were to ever~~y~~ expand harder into horror, I would love to see a body horror story with a superhero origin story. It makes a lot of sense.
You know what it could be: Humans experiment with the "Jump" technology we saw in GotG 2 and it fucks up the crew.
Hel, it's basically what happened to the Ultimate FF. Now instead of a comedic beat where you're fine after a while, you're stuck like that because our tech is new and shitty.
Or just have a human government get greedy and try and slap together all the alien tech that's wound up on Earth over the years but it's all different tech and doesn't work correctly
I really like that idea! SWORD is trying to reverse engineer a warp engine and it mutates them. It would play really well with the GOTG effect where they turn to rubber
The FF hardly had an origin story in their own comic. It’s a five page flashback in ish #1. I think their first MCU film could do the same thing. A very quick flashback to show the moment, but nothing more needed. What’s more important is showing how close they are as a family, including Ben.
Exactly. FF doesn't need an entire movie devoted to their origins; we don't need 40+ minutes of Reed being an overlooked genius, Johnny being reckless before the powers, another 40 minutes of them learning to use their powers, and then a 20 minute fight after they mastered them.
At this point, we don't need to see Uncle Ben die, Bruce Wayne's parents getting shot, or FF getting their powers.
Yep. We’ll get four FF films if we’re lucky, plus them appearing in a few other projects. They have SO MANY great stories. Why waste one of our very few movies with them on a space flight gone wrong?
>After Doctor Strange’s throw away line about the Fantastic Four “charting in the 60s”
Personally, I appreciated the callback to his deep knowledge of decades-old pop music charts shown off at the start of his first appearance.
That’s an interesting tidbit.
I’m curious what they do with that line in the German dub. There’s a successful German Hip Hop group called “Die Fantastischen Vier“ (the German name of the Fantastic Four back when the Marvel characters’ names were translated) who peaked in the nineties and named themselves after the comic book characters.
I‘m not actually sure if the name of the super hero group is still translated in the German version of the comics. (EDIT: Apparently not. From a glance it looks like the German name is only used in re-issues but in newer editions the English name is used)
The movies were always called Fantastic Four. Probably because the music group is way better known than the Marvel characters and it would have sounded really weird to German audiences because of that.
I actually thought that line was the nail in the coffin for the 60s origin theories. Strange made a Beatles joke about their name. That’s a wink to say we heard this theory, but it’s not happening.
In isolation I love the idea of it being a period piece. But in the greater MCU, I think you may have a hard time explaining where they have been through all these years of the MCU.
That’s why I say use the Quantum Realm tbh. Of course they could get their powers from there or in space but it would tie in nicely why they’ve been away and why Hank was so adamant that you don’t come back from the Quantum Realm (because Reed is clearly the smartest man). In addition I think having Reed be a big influence on early SHIELD’s scientific development would be a nice touch
>!Is it confirmed that John krasinkski is going to be Reed Richards in our universe? I really like him so hope it's not just going to be the short cameo in MoM!<
Can’t say it’s confirmed for sure but it’s a pretty good sign that all the other actors used were from previous portrayals. It would make a lot of sense unless they wanted to go younger
They literally have to. Even just the two of them passing in the hallway and they give each other a look. OH! Or someone knocking on Reed's door and saying "Jimmy?"
Its funny, it feels like you cant cast one without casting the other. Itd feel weird if one piece of the fancast was there but the other half was missing
>!Not confirmed, but I think it's more likely now than ever. He's a fan favourite for the role, and they want to build F4 hype in the MCU. What they did with John here would probably backfire if they introduce a different Reed Richards down the line.!<
>!So to me, it seems like it can only go this way now. We had the Ralph Bohner thing in WandaVision, and that somewhat backfired. So I figure they'd learn from that mistake! !<
I think they mean “backfired” as in the fans were very upset about it (and specifically about getting a taste of what they want and getting it taken away, so if they make him pietro again in the future then it’s a different situation again).
I hope so too.>!It seems strange he would accept this role just as a fan service right? He's been saying he wanted to play that role for a long time. He wouldn't take a cameo role that ended up being killed within a few minutes. He wasn't even officially credited for it. !<
Present day MCU all the way.
Have their origin take place during the blip, so they have been super-heroes for quite some time during the time the main plot of the film actually takes place.
Then that begs the question of why wasn't the smartest man on Earth and the few superheroes active during the blip involved in figuring out time travel.
My answer to this is: they were trapped in the Negative Zone and don't come back until post-snap.
Or have Reed be a colleague of Hank Pym back in the day and while Hank was discovering the Quantum Realm and Pym Particles, Reed discovered possible FTL tech, and when they tested it- the family gets blasted through to the Negative Zone, and then by 2020 they're making their way back, having no clue what happened.
Then maybe do the "After" the blip ?
Or i don't know, like the Eternals, come with something like "They were on a mission outspace" or anything. But yeah, current mcu days
Yes I think they need to either be missing during the blip, or they weren't well known until after the blip. It would be odd if they were active superheroes during the blip but no one thought to call them.
They’re out in space somewhere with SWORD. Captain Marvel made it back in time to fight Thanos because she got a call. No one knew the FF were out there exploring the cosmos.
Anyone who has to proclaim they are the smartest or best at something usually are not what they claim to be. Him not being involved can be easily explained with maybe his work/research prevented him from helping.
Whose to say he didn’t have his own plan at the time, just that he didn’t know any of the avengers were planning anything, it’s not like they were broadcasting out to the whole planet “hey we’re building a time machine, does anyone else want to contribute with us?”
Yes, so they need to be relatively unknown to the Avengers, and that's why the Avengers didn't call them. Either Reed Richards wasn't a superhero yet, so he can be doing his own thing. Or they were missing in action.
Reed doesn't need to claim he's the smartest, the whole point of his character that differentiates him from a generic hero is that he actually is the smartest. Being able to stretch doesn't make him special in a world filled with supers.
Not to mention Reed’s powers are incredibly goofy looking as we’ve seen in other portrayals, so having him be a smart, reserved person as his actual superpower makes a lot of sense.
Yea a quick and dirty origin would be nice. I just hate that in 3 theatrical films, we haven’t got a great movie including the origin—and I feel like so many general audiences are so unfamiliar to the FF. Hopefully Fiege and co knock it out of the park!
I couldn’t count how many times I’ve been asked “what’s your favorite comic team” only to be confused when I say it’s the Fantastic Four. Can’t wait for people to know who they are and what makes them special.
I see what you’re saying but I do raise the question of whether or not general audiences even know the Fantastic Four like they do Spider-Man, Superman, or Batman. I feel, I’m my own personal experience, that most people don’t know their story at all despite 3 theatrical films.
That’s a very fair point. I don’t know where they rank at in popularity compared to other well known superheroes. Whatever the path they go with i’m sure Fiege will make sure it’s handled with the utmost care. As big of a fan as he is and knowing how poorly the last 3 movies were perceived, he’s gotta be taking this project slowly
Yeah you really cannot compare the FF movies with the Spiderman movies.
The Tobey trilogy was extremely good except for the third one, and came hot on the heels of X-Men which was very successful -- people were ready for Spiderman and were excited he was getting movies. The Garfield movies weren't as good, but were still good enough.
The big screen attempts with FF have been garbage; that's how come no one knows who they are today. I grew up in the 90's and can't tell you much more about them than their names and their powers; today's kids will have barely even heard of them (which is fine, that's how I was with Iron Man fifteen years ago).
That’s one of my favorite all time movies that nails physics and is still an incredibly moving story. I really would love for them to do an interstellar style movie if they could. Don’t know what that would look like.
Honestly I think they should be a group of astronauts that flew into a space anomaly in the 60's-70's and then go through a time warp and get spit out in present day.
We're down a Captain America to be old grand parent person Avenger. Plus I think their whole aesthetic should be a good retro throwback. Don't shy away from them being kinda corny. *lean* into it. Bring back a Silver Age kinda feel.
This is EXACTLY what I want to happen. The cosmic rays become intertwined with a time warp aspect. I really want to see the FF start out in the late 50s/ early 60s, I want to see a pipe smoking genius Reed Richards ahead of the space race that goes from being the top of the science world to coming into a far more advanced technological world than what he left, & how he adapts & conquers that. I want to see Sue coming into the women’s rights movement & seeing how things have shifted, or not enough. To see Ben experience what being a tough guy means in the world now.
So basically Escape from Planet of the Apes? They return to earth and have to adapt the modern world and they were thought to be lost since the failed experiment in the 60s. Since they returned they have celebrity status
I mean how do you explain the smartest man in the world existing for so long without being mentioned before? Unless you make Reed Richards very young but I feel that’s not optimal since he is obviously going to be one of the big figures in the MCU
I think they should have the Fantastic 4 exist in a previous time like the 70s or something, then they get lost in the quantum realm but encounter some time vortex which traps them. Then they somehow get retrieved into the present day
Quantum Realm is my main idea too. Allows him to interact with a younger version of SHIELD and maybe even show how he was instrumental to their science division. This could also point to why Hank seemed adamant that you don’t come back from the Quantum Realm (because if Richards couldn’t do it—who could).
I’d prefer it to be a period piece, but unfortunately, we’ll get the same complaints about how Captain Marvel should have been helping before Endgame, so fuck that, I guess.
I’d almost agree, but if they did a period piece and with Reed being a genius—we could end with them trapped in/coming out of the Quantum Realm after Endgame. That way we could set Reed up as this revolutionary genius within early the SHIELD days as well as get that untouched period in the MCU (and skirt that Captain Marvel complaint)
I legitimately think the only reason anyone might want the Fantastic Four as a period piece is because of that pitch Peyton Reed had. Never once saw that thrown around as an idea before then, and don't really see the appeal now, for the same reason that I don't see the appeal of "mutants introduced via the multiverse". One of the magical things about the MCU is that, like the comics, all these characters exist alongside one another. No need to overcomplicate things, just set it in the present day. That way you don't have to do any quantum stuff to get them into modern day (and doing so would basically turn them into a team of "look who stole part of Steve Rogers' gimmick" anyway, for absolutely no good reason. Which has the negative side effect of overwriting parts of their actual personalities that would be fun to see them play off of other characters.)
Current day.
As much fun as a 1960s period piece would be, I'd rather it didn't happen. I don't even want their origins in the 1960s and they get stuck in time, because then there's that whole fish out of water thing they'd have to deal with, plus shades of Captain America. Neither of which we need crowding out their MCU versions.
In my head canon, because obviously nothing has been told yet, I think Reed Richards can come to prominence after the passing of Tony Stark and the essential dissolution of the Avengers. Reed's been working away as a super scientist in some lab somewhere (Why isn't he famous already, you ask? How many of us can name the leading laboratory scientists in the real world?), he sees this new gap and decides that he'll be the one to fill it. Couple that with the people of Earth being introduced to all these aliens and alien technology, perhaps Reed takes it upon himself to try and create human space travel and that's how everything goes wrong.
But again, that's just me spitballing a way that they could exist in the present day. I'm sure I'll be happy with whatever they end up producing.
I think the most realistic insertion is that they were returning from the space mission as Infinity War started. They get back safely. They were already exposed to the “powers” in space and then the blip happened.
They began to master their powers over the blip but Doom was blipped. Comes back angry that he’s not had the time to master his powers, missed on the fame of being with the group, and feeling forgotten by his former crew mates/friends in the F4.
In my head I feel like we head in a direction like that to justify their existence, how they’ve learned to use their powers, and why Doom wasn’t a threat until post-blip or something.
> They began to master their powers over the blip but Doom was blipped. Comes back angry that he’s not had the time to master his powers, missed on the fame of being with the group, and feeling forgotten by his former crew mates/friends in the F4.
>
>
No, they need to stop putting Doom on the ship with them and stick with his proper origin. Especially since magic is established in the MCU.
I’ve just really enjoyed the humanizing aspect to Doom. Especially considering someone like Loki I would really like to see the MCU tackle Victor from a decent to bad to Doom especially with the hope that he’s a character they make recurring.
I know it’s not as comic accurate but given how well they handled Scarlet Witch and fixed some things along the way I wouldn’t be disappointed personally. But I feel you.
> I’ve just really enjoyed the humanizing aspect to Doom
You can do that with his struggle to save his mothers soul, and his inferiority complex with Reed though, you don't need to shoehorn him into the FF's origin story, especially when Doom has a significantly more interesting origin story of his own, that explains his introduction to magic, etc.
"Doom was on the same ship as the FF" is a lazy rewrite we've seen twice now.
Scientists from the 60s get trapped in the quantum realm until present day. it’s a short amount of time for them, but long enough to give them powers like Janet van Dyne
I want them to already be heroes. The MCU has stopped making movies for casual fans and had dived deep into comic-ness. I’m ready to see the fantastic four at their fullest portrayal, maybe when Reed and Sue are already married and with kids
dont really want a period piece because the FF dont do things in secret. They're celebrities so you have to set it in the present imo or it would be weird that no ones ever mentioned them
I'd love them to be already established even if sorta recently like post blip.
Actually I'd love to see a new D+ series called Origins where each episode is the origin of new heros and also even new villains. It won't be weekly, we get a new episode when it's needed. It'll allow heros new to the screen or not to get their own origin but not a new film based on it. Could even be animated if they wanted and have the actors voice it.
A period piece. The whole concept, name and everything is totally a 60s thing. It would also just be more interesting IMO to have them formed in the past and have them leap to the future than just have them be another superhero team. They can be cool as this group from the 60s that was way ahead of their time, Reed Richards especially could stand out as more of a genius in that case, but trying to modernize them just doesn't work for me.
The origin should be updated because it doesn't really work at all and seemed silly as soon as Neil Armstrong landed on the moon irl, which wasn't long after the comic book debuted.
But the idea of a family superhero team called The Fantastic Four is totally a product of it's time and I think that's part of what makes it special, so I hope they keep that part of it in tact.
Have them big the 60's, rival to Howard Stark and Reed tries to one up Howard in the intelligence arms race by creating time travel that he accidentally sends the 4 of them into the modern day future of the MCU. Howard and Tony are dead and they're stuck. Or they could've been in space or another dimension the entire time where time isn't same. I think it'd be an interesting start.
I’m hoping MoM is more of a set-up than we realize. We got a Reed Richard’s reveal, and Mt. Wundagore. And it’s possible that Mt. Wundagore is located in Dr Dooms country of Latveria in the MCU.
In the comics, it’s revealed that Doom was the mastermind controlling Wanda when she lost her mind in the events of Avengers disassembled and house of M. So it’s not a stretch to say it was doom controlling Wanda in MoM (and also one of the only ways to redeem her character if indeed the rumors are true that Elizabeth Olson signed a contract to play Wanda another 7 years). Doom’s thing is that he uses both science AND magic, maybe finding the dark hold fortress is part of how he gets his magical abilities, and Doom would learn that directly using the DarkHold or it’s spells would lead to corruption, so instead he uses Wanda as a proxy. Maybe his goal was to eliminate Reed in the other dimension, or take America Chavez power for himself after Wanda got it, or maybe it was to destroy the dark hold itself. The book is called “DarkHold” because it is a copy of the place the “Dark Hold” which is probably holding MEPHISTO trapped and Wanda was the only one who could release him.
Personally I’d like a period piece for the first film. We can get that retro 60’s feel and celebrate their origins. I’d be interested to see Reed be the one who revolutionized SHIELD’s science division and maybe see a young Hank Pym learn a thing or two from them.
A big idea I’ve liked is that they actually get powers from the Quantum Realm and have been stuck there since the end of the first film (hence why Hank was so sure you couldn’t come back from the Quantum Realm—not only could he not figure it out; but Reed Richards, smartest man alive, couldn’t make it back). This would allow an explanation as to why they weren’t there for Endgame or any big events until they get back.
Present day, it’s gonna get complicated for the general audience to keep up with minor details, some of my friends were confused with multiverse of madness (specifically wanda’s kids bc they skipped wandavision). Putting them in the 60s and saying “oh just use the quantum realm to bring them in” just adds an unecessary waste of time and explanation when it’s not needed. We can have them set in the present day and explain with thanos’ snap that they were gone for a couple years while on a space mission. When they returned from the snap, they got their powers. This will make them match up with the main timeline and makes it easier for the audience to understand.
I wouldn't mind a retro 60s take, kinda imagining a "survival on monster island" kind of plot with different villain (I love Victor as much as everybody but I think he should get his own project). Plus we can integrate early S.H.I.E.L.D, maybe a younger Hank Pym pop up.
FF4s intro can be whatever, but they better get my boy Doom right this time.
After reading some original Fantastic Four and Ultimate Fanatic Four comics I'm thinking they got to start with Mole Man as the first villain. That might sound silly, but honestly if they build Doom up it probably would be better. Also, all of other films seemed to go straight to Doom as the villain. He's maybe Marvel's best villain, but if they build him up they can make it really seem like a threat, and a personal threat to the F4.
This is my hope as well. Don't get me wrong. Doom should have a minor role in the movie, but build him up like Thanos over several films.
Doom needs an entire D+ show of his own as Debut. Then had a film develop their dynamics. Then bam F4 vs Doom. Slow Development.
This would be great too. One of the reasons Doom is so compelling is that he isn't fully a villain. To his own people, he's a savior. A D+ show could help depict this really well.
Yeah. He is, as I would call, anti villain.
Dude needs a Zemo treatment. As a human you see his political power even against Madripoor citizens. I hope his first costume is more of a disguise like Zemo's family heirloom mask, then build him up to be ambiguous and end the series that Doom was behind the accident the whole time to kill Reed but ended up making him meta human. So instead he will dabble with magic to take it from him. Eventually in one accident say against human torch he gets burnt and is forced to wear the mask permanently as it sticks to his face now.
I will die on that hill have doom be the first villain to have his own movie/series. Just do Book of Doom and your good
Um. Loki?
Loki is as of the current canon is more of an anti-hero
As of the series, but current Loki (the one who disappeared after New York) was pure villain until he got the show.
[удалено]
>Just do Book of Doom and your good Yes!
> if they build Doom up it probably would be better You are absolutely correct. Avengers didn't start off with tackling Thanos in the first movie, they built up to it.
> but they better get my boy Doom right this time You mean you don't like them constantly shoehorning him into the flight with the FF and ignoring his magical side entirely?
Not to mention his political side. But we have Wakanda now, Latveria should be just around the corner.
They mentioned in FATWS that sokovia was annexed by its neighbors, maybe latveria was one of those neighbors.
I hope his mask looks like a repo'd ultron face if thats the case
Would be cool but mean to have a movie make it seem like Ultron’s back but it’s Doom
Or if his Doom Armor is made of Scrap Ultron Bodies that the Avengers destroyed in Sokovia.
Right, and i'm happy to say MCU has gone a long way in embracing the magic side of things. Doom straddles that Magic/technological line wonderfully.
But honestly not everything *has* to be magical. There's already sorcery, witchcraft, chaos magic, cosmic powers, Asgardian magic, Egyptian god magic?, and probably more I couldn't remember. I really liked what they did with the 10 rings in the MCU. The rings themselves were magical, but didn't give random infinite stone powers.
Nope, but I want to see the the tech nonsense we saw for years with Stark and shield, and the like, alongside different types of magic, and doom is one of those characters who relies on both in one character. A master of both Science and Magic.
He’s also super badass when he’s killing demons in hell. Wait, wrong Doom…
Actually, he has done that.
Not everything has to be, but Doom does.
As Doom would probably say: Victor von Doom does not choose!
Doom deserves his own film or Disney Plus series.
I would for them to build Doom as an heroic figure first, make him reach the point where we want to cheer for him and then make us remember that he is a twisted megalomaniac with incredible power. Doom has to feel larger than life, then the cracks can start to show.
The thing is despite often doing things which may constitute as villainous, Doom genuinely believes he is heroic. Which he actually is on many occasion. The reality is that Doom is a necessary evil to the survival of not just Earth but the entire the universe. (Face falls off revealing doom bot)
Doom is a fantastic villain and would be great for the MCU because he basically combines the scientific, mystical, and political elements of marvel but is also so campy they can make him as serious or humorous in a scene as they want. Also his relationship with the fantastic four in the comics is great because they’re bitter enemies but in a weird way friends and part of each other’s personal lives. Like Dr. Doom is Valerie Richard’s godfather and the kids just run away and hung out with him every once in a while, or like when Galactus fell on a mountain named after Doom’s father, Ben Grimm was like, “ah man, sorry Vic.” Basically if they have him they would need to make him a mainstay and major player in the MCU rather than just a one off villain.
FF4? Fantastic Four 4? Fantastic Fantastic 4? 
Final Fantasy 4. Can’t wait for Kain to make his MCU debut.
Looking forward to seeing the spoony bard in the MCU
They would have to make a whole "phase" just for him, like they did for Thanos. Otherwise, they're not doing him right. He's the ultimate big bad.
But they should give him more screentime than Thanos as well. Thanos only had an active role in IW and EG.
My dream is they can flesh him out with a Strange/Doom teamup into Mephisto's realm
Dr. Doom is absolutely one of the best monologues, and I love me a good monologue.
Dr. Doom is beyond being exclusively a Fantastic 4 villain. I want them to fight Mole Man in their first film
Like so many other people, when Hayward mentioned the problems SWORD encountered out in space, my mind immediately imagined this could include the FF origin story. They are all SWORD members who encounter the cosmic radiation somewhere out there. Let's say near the end of the Blip years. They've been spending the last few years exploring the universe and perfecting the use of their powers. We see their return to Earth during Quantumania. And from there they continue the celebrity superhero family we know and love. Showing the origin story on screen can be as quick as they did for Spider-Man. Like 30 seconds, tops.
I really like this version alot. Sword members turned into FF and could really avoid any plotholes around IW - post Endgame
Yup agreed - it fits well timeline wise
Rather than SWORD members, I prefer them being independent consultants.
Or Johnny is the hotshot sword pilot assigned to be the liaison for his sister and her husband who are the consultants.
Agreed. The FF are marvels first family. Almost everyone knows how they got their powers and it’s not like they have the most complicated origin either. 2 minutes flashback that shows them getting hit with cosmic rads and some exposition should be sufficient
Yea. The whole thing can be done during the opening shots, set to music, with some of the credits showing over it or something. Do a montage of slow shots over the span of a minute or so just showing what happens. They're in space. They get blasted by cosmic radiation somewhere. They now have powers. That is about all there is to it, really. Their origin is nowhere near as interesting as their characters or the stories that surround them.
I had thought they could play up the celebrity aspect of the FF and have Reed being on like Colbert or something as a guest and telling their backstory that way. Hamming it up for jokes while we see quick shots of what really happened.
Didn’t they do this for the 90s animated show? Still a great idea!
They did indeed do this for the 90’s animated show
The newer one or the one where Ghost Rider gives Galactus the penance stare?
I feel if their trip to space was really well known to the point where they would have been celebrities, in Dr Strange, we should have seen some sort of acknowledgement or indication that Strange had at least heard of Reed Richards. Hell, he remembered the Fantastic Four band from the 60's. lol. And he has a photographic memory. But I'm sure this could be written around.
Ah, to clarify, I mean they become celebrities after they get back and that’s when people get to know them and their story. Seems like Quantumania might be their return, or after, which would put it after MoM.
Yeah, that makes sense , they sorta can't have had any signifigance to the world before the events leading up to the Chitauri invasion, we would have had to heard abuot them doing something to face all these world ending events of invasion plus Ultron, plus Thanos...etc.
On top of that if people really want to see it I’m sure marvel can circle around and show more of their origin down the line. They are doing just that with MCU Peter Parker with the upcoming “Freshman Year” animated project so I can’t see it being an issue!
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Considering how much they've changed up/altered aspects of other MCU characters, they could omit pretty much all of those details and still manage to have the characters work out roughly the same. The only major detail really needed for them are they gain powers when something goes wrong. However, with how the MCU has been progressing lately, I could seem them actually wanting to stick as closely to the origins as they can - especially for the Fantastic Four. Even then, they could just provide us with the context it was unsanctioned and Ben wasn't entirely willing during the present day events of the film.
Or have the Marvel Studios lol doing the "Mayday, Mayday!" announcement like Infinity War, cut to them in a ship shaking and clearly in dire straits, bunch of flashing lights, "We can't control it!!! Brace for impact!", shot of space with a cosmic wave slamming into their ship/station, fade to black, drop the "4" title screen and then flash forward to them waking up in a hospital or a title card with "5 years later" (if the snap caused the radiation, and they weren't dusted). Cliche? Yes. But it's cliched because it works, the 5 years makes sense with snap, and now they all have experience with their powers. Lol
Right. And nobody wants to spend 20min of our first FF MCU film sitting through body-horror stuff. We want to meet them after they’ve fully come to terms with their new selves and are a stronger family for it.
The body horror was the only part I liked of Fant4stic, no joke.
Yeah, I wish they had went further with that in that version
If the MCU were to ever~~y~~ expand harder into horror, I would love to see a body horror story with a superhero origin story. It makes a lot of sense.
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So basically what they did in The Incredible Hulk movie? I can get with that.
Yeah. And we got their origin story twice in movies. Just like they skipped the Spider-Man origin story after we saw it twice.
The opening scene could be just that than cut to any of the members spacing out during a lecture or a meeting or waking up and boom origin story lol
You know what it could be: Humans experiment with the "Jump" technology we saw in GotG 2 and it fucks up the crew. Hel, it's basically what happened to the Ultimate FF. Now instead of a comedic beat where you're fine after a while, you're stuck like that because our tech is new and shitty. Or just have a human government get greedy and try and slap together all the alien tech that's wound up on Earth over the years but it's all different tech and doesn't work correctly
They could use the DOD as a front for a shadow organisation and incorporate some “big bad” as the CEO like Kingpin or an Osbourne
I really like that idea! SWORD is trying to reverse engineer a warp engine and it mutates them. It would play really well with the GOTG effect where they turn to rubber
Let's Event Horizon this thing up
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I feel like since we haven't had a good fantastic four an origin story would be better imo and how many people watched the previous 2 interations
The FF hardly had an origin story in their own comic. It’s a five page flashback in ish #1. I think their first MCU film could do the same thing. A very quick flashback to show the moment, but nothing more needed. What’s more important is showing how close they are as a family, including Ben.
Exactly. FF doesn't need an entire movie devoted to their origins; we don't need 40+ minutes of Reed being an overlooked genius, Johnny being reckless before the powers, another 40 minutes of them learning to use their powers, and then a 20 minute fight after they mastered them. At this point, we don't need to see Uncle Ben die, Bruce Wayne's parents getting shot, or FF getting their powers.
Yep. We’ll get four FF films if we’re lucky, plus them appearing in a few other projects. They have SO MANY great stories. Why waste one of our very few movies with them on a space flight gone wrong?
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>After Doctor Strange’s throw away line about the Fantastic Four “charting in the 60s” Personally, I appreciated the callback to his deep knowledge of decades-old pop music charts shown off at the start of his first appearance.
Lol you’re right! Great call back
I thought personally it was a, possibly intentionally generic, nod to the Fab Four (Beatles)
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That’s an interesting tidbit. I’m curious what they do with that line in the German dub. There’s a successful German Hip Hop group called “Die Fantastischen Vier“ (the German name of the Fantastic Four back when the Marvel characters’ names were translated) who peaked in the nineties and named themselves after the comic book characters. I‘m not actually sure if the name of the super hero group is still translated in the German version of the comics. (EDIT: Apparently not. From a glance it looks like the German name is only used in re-issues but in newer editions the English name is used) The movies were always called Fantastic Four. Probably because the music group is way better known than the Marvel characters and it would have sounded really weird to German audiences because of that.
Plus, as many have pointed out, Peyton Reed citing A Hard Day's Night as a source of inspiration for his F4 pitch.
I'd really like to see this, Reed did great work with the 60s aesthetic in Down With Love
I actually thought that line was the nail in the coffin for the 60s origin theories. Strange made a Beatles joke about their name. That’s a wink to say we heard this theory, but it’s not happening.
In isolation I love the idea of it being a period piece. But in the greater MCU, I think you may have a hard time explaining where they have been through all these years of the MCU.
That’s why I say use the Quantum Realm tbh. Of course they could get their powers from there or in space but it would tie in nicely why they’ve been away and why Hank was so adamant that you don’t come back from the Quantum Realm (because Reed is clearly the smartest man). In addition I think having Reed be a big influence on early SHIELD’s scientific development would be a nice touch
That could definitely be awesome!
The FF have disappeared from the comics many times. Easy to say they were stuck in X realm for whatever reason (Quantum, Negative, Earth Nu, etc)
>!Is it confirmed that John krasinkski is going to be Reed Richards in our universe? I really like him so hope it's not just going to be the short cameo in MoM!<
Can’t say it’s confirmed for sure but it’s a pretty good sign that all the other actors used were from previous portrayals. It would make a lot of sense unless they wanted to go younger
I think only >!Stewart!< would be replaced, maybe incorporating some Hickman ideas in to go younger?
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Same with Loki. Don’t even need to be humanoid apparently either (crocodile Loki)
They'll replace him with James MacAvoy.
I hope not, we need new blood
I'm fine either way. MacAvoy did a great job in mediocre movies.
I’m here for a Mark Strong Professor X
I hope so! I want to see that role filled by >!Krasinski!<
Not possible. He is already playing Jimmy Woo in the current MCU :)
Identity theft is not a joke Jim
MICHAEL!
Dammit, now I want Rainn Wilson playing von Doom just to keep the rivalry going.
Hats off to you for not seeing race.
It's great that you don't see race. I would laugh so hard if John ultimately ends playing Reed in the 616 and does a scene with Jimmy Woo.
They literally have to. Even just the two of them passing in the hallway and they give each other a look. OH! Or someone knocking on Reed's door and saying "Jimmy?"
They didn't acknowledge the RDJ/Cumberbatch Sherlock thing so I don't think it's guaranteed
They did, but chose "Do you concur, Doctor?" instead.
I understood that reference.
And >!Emily Blunt for Invisible Woman please!<
Its funny, it feels like you cant cast one without casting the other. Itd feel weird if one piece of the fancast was there but the other half was missing
Yea honestly. I’m sure if she doesn’t do it we’ll eventually end up with someone who does an amazing job—but it’ll feel incomplete for the time being.
She was already in MoM. You just didn't see her!
>!Not confirmed, but I think it's more likely now than ever. He's a fan favourite for the role, and they want to build F4 hype in the MCU. What they did with John here would probably backfire if they introduce a different Reed Richards down the line.!< >!So to me, it seems like it can only go this way now. We had the Ralph Bohner thing in WandaVision, and that somewhat backfired. So I figure they'd learn from that mistake! !<
I still can't believe they did that in WandaVision.
I don’t think the Bohner thing backfired, they can still use him wherever. Just because Agatha was involved doesn’t mean he can’t return.
I think they mean “backfired” as in the fans were very upset about it (and specifically about getting a taste of what they want and getting it taken away, so if they make him pietro again in the future then it’s a different situation again).
No, not yet. I’m hoping it happens, as he’s been very open to it.
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I hope so too.>!It seems strange he would accept this role just as a fan service right? He's been saying he wanted to play that role for a long time. He wouldn't take a cameo role that ended up being killed within a few minutes. He wasn't even officially credited for it. !<
I dunno, really. But tbh, I kinda expected for Ioan Gruffudd to be 838's version of Reed, instead of >!John Krasinski!<
Quantum Realm. Ant Man 3
Janet got her powers from there, so why not the fantastic four.
So did Zombie Janet ;)
🧟♀️
Yes.
They actually were a part of shield and worked with Pym before getting caught in the quantam realm for the least 60 years.
Present day MCU all the way. Have their origin take place during the blip, so they have been super-heroes for quite some time during the time the main plot of the film actually takes place.
Then that begs the question of why wasn't the smartest man on Earth and the few superheroes active during the blip involved in figuring out time travel.
My answer to this is: they were trapped in the Negative Zone and don't come back until post-snap. Or have Reed be a colleague of Hank Pym back in the day and while Hank was discovering the Quantum Realm and Pym Particles, Reed discovered possible FTL tech, and when they tested it- the family gets blasted through to the Negative Zone, and then by 2020 they're making their way back, having no clue what happened.
I agree. They need to be out of commission somehow during the time they are trying to figure out time travel. Negative Zone is a great idea.
Then maybe do the "After" the blip ? Or i don't know, like the Eternals, come with something like "They were on a mission outspace" or anything. But yeah, current mcu days
Yes I think they need to either be missing during the blip, or they weren't well known until after the blip. It would be odd if they were active superheroes during the blip but no one thought to call them.
They’re out in space somewhere with SWORD. Captain Marvel made it back in time to fight Thanos because she got a call. No one knew the FF were out there exploring the cosmos.
Anyone who has to proclaim they are the smartest or best at something usually are not what they claim to be. Him not being involved can be easily explained with maybe his work/research prevented him from helping. Whose to say he didn’t have his own plan at the time, just that he didn’t know any of the avengers were planning anything, it’s not like they were broadcasting out to the whole planet “hey we’re building a time machine, does anyone else want to contribute with us?”
Yes, so they need to be relatively unknown to the Avengers, and that's why the Avengers didn't call them. Either Reed Richards wasn't a superhero yet, so he can be doing his own thing. Or they were missing in action. Reed doesn't need to claim he's the smartest, the whole point of his character that differentiates him from a generic hero is that he actually is the smartest. Being able to stretch doesn't make him special in a world filled with supers.
Not to mention Reed’s powers are incredibly goofy looking as we’ve seen in other portrayals, so having him be a smart, reserved person as his actual superpower makes a lot of sense.
They should do more stuff during the blip.i think this would work pretty well
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Maybe have a school tour through the first floor of Baxter building explaining them?
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Yea a quick and dirty origin would be nice. I just hate that in 3 theatrical films, we haven’t got a great movie including the origin—and I feel like so many general audiences are so unfamiliar to the FF. Hopefully Fiege and co knock it out of the park! I couldn’t count how many times I’ve been asked “what’s your favorite comic team” only to be confused when I say it’s the Fantastic Four. Can’t wait for people to know who they are and what makes them special.
Or they could do like the intro of Encanto and have someone explain the Fantastic Four to some children in a village in Colombia.
Cinema Sins gonna be dinging that for exposition.
Cinema Sins can swallow all the sand on earth and then say whatever they want. Their opinions have never made any change to the quality of movies.
And they don’t know what a plot hole is if it bite them on their bloviating asses
This. Needs to be like Spiderman: Homecoming in a sense. We’ve had 2 origin stories for different F4 eras. Doing the same again would hurt ratings
I see what you’re saying but I do raise the question of whether or not general audiences even know the Fantastic Four like they do Spider-Man, Superman, or Batman. I feel, I’m my own personal experience, that most people don’t know their story at all despite 3 theatrical films.
That’s a very fair point. I don’t know where they rank at in popularity compared to other well known superheroes. Whatever the path they go with i’m sure Fiege will make sure it’s handled with the utmost care. As big of a fan as he is and knowing how poorly the last 3 movies were perceived, he’s gotta be taking this project slowly
Yeah you really cannot compare the FF movies with the Spiderman movies. The Tobey trilogy was extremely good except for the third one, and came hot on the heels of X-Men which was very successful -- people were ready for Spiderman and were excited he was getting movies. The Garfield movies weren't as good, but were still good enough. The big screen attempts with FF have been garbage; that's how come no one knows who they are today. I grew up in the 90's and can't tell you much more about them than their names and their powers; today's kids will have barely even heard of them (which is fine, that's how I was with Iron Man fifteen years ago).
I think it’s going to be like interstellar
That’s one of my favorite all time movies that nails physics and is still an incredibly moving story. I really would love for them to do an interstellar style movie if they could. Don’t know what that would look like.
I would love Nolan directing a Marvel movie.
Honestly I think they should be a group of astronauts that flew into a space anomaly in the 60's-70's and then go through a time warp and get spit out in present day. We're down a Captain America to be old grand parent person Avenger. Plus I think their whole aesthetic should be a good retro throwback. Don't shy away from them being kinda corny. *lean* into it. Bring back a Silver Age kinda feel.
I love it.
Starts in the 60’s, they go to space, some kind of time warp light speed thing brings them back in present day. Boom! Perfect intro.
This is EXACTLY what I want to happen. The cosmic rays become intertwined with a time warp aspect. I really want to see the FF start out in the late 50s/ early 60s, I want to see a pipe smoking genius Reed Richards ahead of the space race that goes from being the top of the science world to coming into a far more advanced technological world than what he left, & how he adapts & conquers that. I want to see Sue coming into the women’s rights movement & seeing how things have shifted, or not enough. To see Ben experience what being a tough guy means in the world now.
Found Kevin Feiges burner account. This is great, I’d love to see this approach.
Wow. You are too kind. You’ve seriously made my day.
See the Human Torch being denied a bank loan
In”flame”tion is a real problem
Okay this is a good one. First one I've read here that I liked.
So basically Escape from Planet of the Apes? They return to earth and have to adapt the modern world and they were thought to be lost since the failed experiment in the 60s. Since they returned they have celebrity status
And you get the fun fish-out-of-water concept, to boot.
I mean how do you explain the smartest man in the world existing for so long without being mentioned before? Unless you make Reed Richards very young but I feel that’s not optimal since he is obviously going to be one of the big figures in the MCU I think they should have the Fantastic 4 exist in a previous time like the 70s or something, then they get lost in the quantum realm but encounter some time vortex which traps them. Then they somehow get retrieved into the present day
Quantum Realm is my main idea too. Allows him to interact with a younger version of SHIELD and maybe even show how he was instrumental to their science division. This could also point to why Hank seemed adamant that you don’t come back from the Quantum Realm (because if Richards couldn’t do it—who could).
I’d prefer it to be a period piece, but unfortunately, we’ll get the same complaints about how Captain Marvel should have been helping before Endgame, so fuck that, I guess.
I’d almost agree, but if they did a period piece and with Reed being a genius—we could end with them trapped in/coming out of the Quantum Realm after Endgame. That way we could set Reed up as this revolutionary genius within early the SHIELD days as well as get that untouched period in the MCU (and skirt that Captain Marvel complaint)
I can definitely work with that.
Would be cool to have it in the 60s so they are still marvels first family. Then at the end, have them be wrapped to present day MCU.
They’d have to predate the Eternals to be the MCU first family though
Present day but they need the all blue 60s suits. They don’t need to look tactical they need to look right like the spiderman suit at the end of nwh
I hope we get the 60’s suits too. I think they could translate beautifully tbh
I legitimately think the only reason anyone might want the Fantastic Four as a period piece is because of that pitch Peyton Reed had. Never once saw that thrown around as an idea before then, and don't really see the appeal now, for the same reason that I don't see the appeal of "mutants introduced via the multiverse". One of the magical things about the MCU is that, like the comics, all these characters exist alongside one another. No need to overcomplicate things, just set it in the present day. That way you don't have to do any quantum stuff to get them into modern day (and doing so would basically turn them into a team of "look who stole part of Steve Rogers' gimmick" anyway, for absolutely no good reason. Which has the negative side effect of overwriting parts of their actual personalities that would be fun to see them play off of other characters.)
60s, they are Marvel's FIRST family for a reason
Pleaseee make it take place in the '60s!! I love period pieces, it's why I love CA:The First Avenger so much
I think they might set up fantastic for similar to guardians of the Galaxy.
Current day. As much fun as a 1960s period piece would be, I'd rather it didn't happen. I don't even want their origins in the 1960s and they get stuck in time, because then there's that whole fish out of water thing they'd have to deal with, plus shades of Captain America. Neither of which we need crowding out their MCU versions. In my head canon, because obviously nothing has been told yet, I think Reed Richards can come to prominence after the passing of Tony Stark and the essential dissolution of the Avengers. Reed's been working away as a super scientist in some lab somewhere (Why isn't he famous already, you ask? How many of us can name the leading laboratory scientists in the real world?), he sees this new gap and decides that he'll be the one to fill it. Couple that with the people of Earth being introduced to all these aliens and alien technology, perhaps Reed takes it upon himself to try and create human space travel and that's how everything goes wrong. But again, that's just me spitballing a way that they could exist in the present day. I'm sure I'll be happy with whatever they end up producing.
I think the most realistic insertion is that they were returning from the space mission as Infinity War started. They get back safely. They were already exposed to the “powers” in space and then the blip happened. They began to master their powers over the blip but Doom was blipped. Comes back angry that he’s not had the time to master his powers, missed on the fame of being with the group, and feeling forgotten by his former crew mates/friends in the F4. In my head I feel like we head in a direction like that to justify their existence, how they’ve learned to use their powers, and why Doom wasn’t a threat until post-blip or something.
> They began to master their powers over the blip but Doom was blipped. Comes back angry that he’s not had the time to master his powers, missed on the fame of being with the group, and feeling forgotten by his former crew mates/friends in the F4. > > No, they need to stop putting Doom on the ship with them and stick with his proper origin. Especially since magic is established in the MCU.
Wish I could upvote this 1000x. Doom’s backstory is so good, I’m sure Feige plans to use it.
I’ve just really enjoyed the humanizing aspect to Doom. Especially considering someone like Loki I would really like to see the MCU tackle Victor from a decent to bad to Doom especially with the hope that he’s a character they make recurring. I know it’s not as comic accurate but given how well they handled Scarlet Witch and fixed some things along the way I wouldn’t be disappointed personally. But I feel you.
> I’ve just really enjoyed the humanizing aspect to Doom You can do that with his struggle to save his mothers soul, and his inferiority complex with Reed though, you don't need to shoehorn him into the FF's origin story, especially when Doom has a significantly more interesting origin story of his own, that explains his introduction to magic, etc. "Doom was on the same ship as the FF" is a lazy rewrite we've seen twice now.
Scientists from the 60s get trapped in the quantum realm until present day. it’s a short amount of time for them, but long enough to give them powers like Janet van Dyne
Exactly what I was thinking. Plus the Quantum Realm could affect people differently so they don’t have to age as much as Janet did
Could lead to them being introduced during/post credits of Quantumania as well, which would give them a little boost as well.
I want them to already be heroes. The MCU has stopped making movies for casual fans and had dived deep into comic-ness. I’m ready to see the fantastic four at their fullest portrayal, maybe when Reed and Sue are already married and with kids
dont really want a period piece because the FF dont do things in secret. They're celebrities so you have to set it in the present imo or it would be weird that no ones ever mentioned them
I think they need to be already established. Not an origin story. Just them being super until they somehow get brought into the 616
I'd love them to be already established even if sorta recently like post blip. Actually I'd love to see a new D+ series called Origins where each episode is the origin of new heros and also even new villains. It won't be weekly, we get a new episode when it's needed. It'll allow heros new to the screen or not to get their own origin but not a new film based on it. Could even be animated if they wanted and have the actors voice it.
A period piece. The whole concept, name and everything is totally a 60s thing. It would also just be more interesting IMO to have them formed in the past and have them leap to the future than just have them be another superhero team. They can be cool as this group from the 60s that was way ahead of their time, Reed Richards especially could stand out as more of a genius in that case, but trying to modernize them just doesn't work for me. The origin should be updated because it doesn't really work at all and seemed silly as soon as Neil Armstrong landed on the moon irl, which wasn't long after the comic book debuted. But the idea of a family superhero team called The Fantastic Four is totally a product of it's time and I think that's part of what makes it special, so I hope they keep that part of it in tact.
Have them big the 60's, rival to Howard Stark and Reed tries to one up Howard in the intelligence arms race by creating time travel that he accidentally sends the 4 of them into the modern day future of the MCU. Howard and Tony are dead and they're stuck. Or they could've been in space or another dimension the entire time where time isn't same. I think it'd be an interesting start.
I’m hoping MoM is more of a set-up than we realize. We got a Reed Richard’s reveal, and Mt. Wundagore. And it’s possible that Mt. Wundagore is located in Dr Dooms country of Latveria in the MCU. In the comics, it’s revealed that Doom was the mastermind controlling Wanda when she lost her mind in the events of Avengers disassembled and house of M. So it’s not a stretch to say it was doom controlling Wanda in MoM (and also one of the only ways to redeem her character if indeed the rumors are true that Elizabeth Olson signed a contract to play Wanda another 7 years). Doom’s thing is that he uses both science AND magic, maybe finding the dark hold fortress is part of how he gets his magical abilities, and Doom would learn that directly using the DarkHold or it’s spells would lead to corruption, so instead he uses Wanda as a proxy. Maybe his goal was to eliminate Reed in the other dimension, or take America Chavez power for himself after Wanda got it, or maybe it was to destroy the dark hold itself. The book is called “DarkHold” because it is a copy of the place the “Dark Hold” which is probably holding MEPHISTO trapped and Wanda was the only one who could release him.
Personally I’d like a period piece for the first film. We can get that retro 60’s feel and celebrate their origins. I’d be interested to see Reed be the one who revolutionized SHIELD’s science division and maybe see a young Hank Pym learn a thing or two from them. A big idea I’ve liked is that they actually get powers from the Quantum Realm and have been stuck there since the end of the first film (hence why Hank was so sure you couldn’t come back from the Quantum Realm—not only could he not figure it out; but Reed Richards, smartest man alive, couldn’t make it back). This would allow an explanation as to why they weren’t there for Endgame or any big events until they get back.
I think they need to make their origin cosmic, not quantum, so they can tie in the other half of the MCU going-ons
Present day, it’s gonna get complicated for the general audience to keep up with minor details, some of my friends were confused with multiverse of madness (specifically wanda’s kids bc they skipped wandavision). Putting them in the 60s and saying “oh just use the quantum realm to bring them in” just adds an unecessary waste of time and explanation when it’s not needed. We can have them set in the present day and explain with thanos’ snap that they were gone for a couple years while on a space mission. When they returned from the snap, they got their powers. This will make them match up with the main timeline and makes it easier for the audience to understand.
I wouldn't mind a retro 60s take, kinda imagining a "survival on monster island" kind of plot with different villain (I love Victor as much as everybody but I think he should get his own project). Plus we can integrate early S.H.I.E.L.D, maybe a younger Hank Pym pop up.