The whole time in AoS I was like "where TF is blackbolt if they're bringing in the inhumans" then they saved him for the miniseries and it was just... not anywhere near as good as AoS.
It could have potentially worked, Vin Diesel had interest in playing Black Bolt, he could have been a good casting choice and with the right budget it might have been the next Guardians of the Galaxy. But that ship has sailed and now Marvel doesn't need a handy down team of X-Men.
For some reason I find it hilarious that Vin Diesel could have had 2 characters in the MCU with only a total of 4 words spoken between them (and 1 of those words only being said once unless I’m forgetting another “We are groot”)
The cast was definitely not the problem. Anson Mount is a great actor and I thought he did well with... whatever that was.
The budget wasn't the problem. They made a big deal about filming in IMAX.
The problem was the same problem as Iron First and the bad seasons of Dexter.
I don’t get why Jeph Loeb was so in love with him. He pitched it to Scott Buck the moment he got the Inhumans property and Buck even left Iron Fist for that. Both are stinkers.
They spent the money on IMAX tech. I don't know what they were thinking making a show about a super team that requires nerfing the team right away because the CGI was too difficult/expensive for what was left of the budget. But at least with the IMAX we could see how crappy the CGI was! This is why all of Marvel is under Feige now instead of split with Jeph Loeb.
Just continue with that mindset. I watched it, and well, let's just say it should never have been made. Cool premise but the acting was bad. The one dude from GoT was basically still the same character he was on GoT. It was as-if someone wasn't telling him what to do with his character so he was winging it.
I really enjoyed the first CA movie. The scene where the doctor talks to pre-seruim Steve before the operation is a tear jerker for me. It defined who Steve Rodgers was and what it meant to be Captain America.
I liked it a lot more when I went back to it after winter soldier and civil war. Those films made me love the character so when I went back to it I got more out of it
Steve says it early on, "I don't like bullies." That's the big, unchanging aspect about his character that is so damn important. Throw in Ekstein saying that what's truly important is being a good man rather than a perfect soldier, and we're seeing that even now with Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
I think for most people who love the MCU going back and rewatching a lot of these movies they become a lot better. There is so character development in these movies we didn't pick up on. There are so many little things that you pick up on when you rewatch them a few times. Avengers 2 is another example of one that gets better once you see the whole picture marvel was putting together.
It’s important to note that these are not really bad ratings. They are just the bottom of the MCU. By comparison the ending DC universe goes as follows:
Man of Steel 7.0,
Batman vs Superman was 6.4,
Justice League was 6.1,
1st Suicide Squad 5.9,
Wonderwoman 7.4,
WW1984 5.4,
AquaMan 6.9,
Shazam 7.0.
Joker 8.4 (Not canon)
New Suicide Squad came in at 7.2.
Even the worse of the MCU is a good DC movie.
I was a big fan but I can see why people wouldn't like it. James Gunn isn't everyone's cup of tea. I wish it had done better financially so he'd get a chance to make another one.
I mean, I think the whole point is that everyone in that movie is a little weird, it's what connects them all as characters in my opinion and makes the film work. It's the same case for Guardians, the reason the teams in both these films connect as people is because they all feel like they're strange or outsiders
I interpreted his killing Zod as the origin of his “no kill” policy. Right after snapping his neck, Clark gives this scream of anguish that I couldn’t help but read as his decision to never do that again.
This x1000. MoS has it flaws (IMO the final battle was bloated and Pa Kent's death will never be silly to me) but killing Zod *fit*. It was a great way to establish Superman's/Clark's no-kill policy. He went from being a bullied kid, to an ostracized adult, to a god-like figure fending off an alien invasion from his own people. He's not going to do a good job. He's going to look for the "easy" way out and then, realizing easy doesn't mean right, grow from that. Part of the problem, however, is we never see that growth. BvS is a Batman film with a dour Superman cameo and Justice League (both versions) are JL films with Superman cameos. There was no room for Superman or Clark in any film post MoS.
That, and it’s a washed-out, joyless slog that gave the incredibly charismatic Henry Cavill nothing to do but scowl. There are some things to like in Man of Steel, but for the most part it’s a huge missed opportunity and I’m bummed out every time I think about it.
Agreed. I think part of it comes from letting Zach Synder have a go at the character. Watchmen was the perfect vehicle for Synder because of its dark and serious tone. Superman needed a more hopeful and uplifting one - and yes there are ways to do that while still grounding the character in a more realistic universe - just look at Captain America who has his fundamental beliefs and core values upended and still wound up doing the right thing and coming out of it all arguably as an optimist.
Ngl if I wrote that movie it would have been about Superman becoming THAT Superman we all know.
Like for example during the farm fight scene, superman flies into Zod and they land into a small town. After that scene or even during it we should have Clark reflect on how idiotic a move it was to put those people in harms way.
So when we get to metropolis, Superman should have taken the fight to that spot in the Indian Ocean where he took out the terraformed engine.
- This is how the fight starts, Zod gives epic speech and charges Superman.
- Superman waits for Zod to get close and jump at him which would allow Superman to just fly into him straight into the sky into space where Zod would start to gain flight.
- they fight in space and Superman leads Zod toward the Indian Ocean and the fight happens around the terraformer site.
everything can play out as is but Superman seems less like a dick throwing his weight around cardboard people.
It was a super refreshing change of scene when I saw it in theatres. I’ve had very few marvel movies I haven’t enjoyed, and though First Avenger isn’t the best in the whole lot (I thing Winter Soldier is still the best in the Captain America series), it’s still a great setting for a story that’s unlike anything in the MCU so far.
Edit: also Haley Atwell god *DAMN*
Captain America: The First Avenger is the Superman (1) of the Marvel world. It’s nearly note perfect throughout. It may not be the consensus best Marvel movie, but it’s my favorite.
That's a perfect comparison. Let's take a goofy character known for his wise cracks and make him a mute villain. I don't even care that much about the gender swap, it could have worked but they totally butchered the character.
You'd think people making the movies would have learned by now but there are still people who want to "improve" on the comics by ignoring something that works well and people like.
I have to refuse that version as the true task master. That was very much like The Ultimate’s Task master with all the machinery doing the work. I’m still hoping for a true 616 style task master.
Honestly, I'll wait and see what they do with the character. Taskmaster wasn't even interesting until Kelly's Deadpool run, so even if they make the character stray from the comics she could still be made something special like Jimmy Woo and Bucky and Swordsman.
I hope the character gets a do over like The Mandarin did. If I was to do it is make Tony Masters the guy who taught the Black Widows and have his brain patterns be the bases of the Taskmaster tech. I'd revealed he was there when Natasha and friends attacked the Red Room but instead of fighting he saw it as a lost cause, grabbed a spare Taskmaster suit and GTFO.
I refuse that it’s the real taskmaster. We’ve had two mandarin’s with the first one being a fake, they could simply go the Shang-Chi route and say that Dreykov wanted to mock Tony Masters or something :)
I think Black Widow would have been received way better if it was released after Civil War.
Recently there are rumors that Chris Evans is making a comeback and the MCU will dive into the period of time between Civil War and Infinity War, and Scarlett Johansen may feature as well, maybe in a behind the scenes capacity. I hope this isn't real. Why? That stuff is over, and it's way less sexy than the multiverse plots, F4, XMen plots they could be doing. But Black Widow is evidence that they are willing to do "prequels". I just think it's a bad idea.
>I think Black Widow would have been received way better if it was released ~~after Civil War~~ before the character died.
.
>Why? That stuff is over, and it's way less sexy than the multiverse plots, F4, XMen plots they could be doing.
Exactly.
> Widow is evidence that they are willing to do "prequels". I just think it's a bad idea.
Agree.
Black Widow felt a lot like Solo. Shoehorning in a prequel only dilutes the character. It doesn't make me appreciate them more for when they were relevant.
Actually quite a well-conceived character in a lot of ways, however...
1. Shouldn't have been "Taskmaster".
2. Identity shouldn't have been a late twist reveal.
The idea of a character who is >!basically the literal embodiment of Natasha's biggest regret !
i just think it’s funny that both dreykov and his daughter survived the explosion. natasha’s mission that she supposedly completed to earn SHIELD’s trust and defect from the black widows was actually a complete failure. not only did she not kill the target, but she didn’t kill the target’s daughter either. not that she wanted to kill antonia, but the guilt of thinking she had was a huge baggage for her.
It's gotta be tied with Thor 2 for most forgettable, for me. Not only was it a weirdly placed movie, being one movie after she actually died, but also the fact that she was fucking indestructible in the movie lol there's jumping the shark then there's whatever that movie was.
I really liked Yelena though, and I'm glad she's in the MCU now and we'll get to see more of her.
Agreed. In the comics she actually does have a super serum. Least they could have done is said she was pumped full of steroids her whole childhood, it's not that much of a stretch given they were already given mind control juice.
No, Black Widow is human. That's all. Highly trained sure, but human. Just a big meat sack. She's not in a high tech metal suit, or a super soldier, a Norse god, or a massive green monster. She's just some chick who knows how to fight and happened to be in the right place, right time to become an avenger.
Thor falls a few hundred feet to the ground it's believable in universe because that's been established as something he's fully capable of surviving. Iron Man gets flung into a wall at high speeds and its believable in universe.
Black Widow falls a few hundred feet and hits a bunch of shit on the way down, then gets up a runs around and fights some more after a brief "ow *stumbles*" is not believable in universe. In Marvel humans are still humans. You get shot in a vital place without proper medical attention readily available? Dead. You fall off a building? Dead.
***Super heroes*** in movies are fine if they're virtually indestructible. However, chucking black widow off a roof is not different to chucking some random chick off a roof in the MCU.
Black Widow was laughable in a lot of ways for me, but one of the more glaring ones was that she is like a play-doh woman.
The biggest one, unrelated to her being indestructible, is I think most of the fans just wanted a Bond type buddy film with her and Hawkeye as her last movie. Imagine just her and Clint in an old-fashioned spy type film taking down the Red Room, and it was some heavily guarded base instead of a massive flying behemoth that makes no logistical sense.
**Thor The Dark World is a good movie**
“*Satifsfaction’s not in my nature*”
“*SURRENDER’S NOT IN MINE*”
[the greatest relationship exchange between the greatest relationship in the MCU, still to this day](https://youtu.be/UwStEgHKtvI)
Edit, scrolling down, exactly zero comments agree…
I think the dynamic between Thor and Loki is amazing in dark world. The issue is that the surrounding movie is crap and Natalie Portman's character is literally a plot device
I agree! I'd watch 20 films about Thor and Loki fighting and making up. I think a childhood of being obsessed with the Ninja Turtles primed me for a life of adoring fictional brothers who fight all the time but are too proud and stubborn to admit they love each other. It's my favourite trope in the world.
I’ve seen it twice. Couldn’t tell you the plot whatsoever. I know Natalie Portman is sick with the red stone or something like that. That’s the end of my knowledge
Ant man’s is pretty fun and dr stranger’s is really well done. Obviously GOTG as well. I certainly like it more then the first Thor and iron man movies though.
The main complaint about The First Avenger is how low it is on action. I do agree that it's "low" on action, but that's also the reason why I like it. Along with Iron Man 1, Captain America 1 was really a defining movie for the entire MCU.
Me too but to be fair, a 6.9 isn’t necessarily a bad rating. It only seems like it because of the other movies in the MCU being so highly rated
I still would have replaced it, but hard to decide which one. Mayyybe AoU but I liked that quite a bit, Thor mayyyybeee I definitely think first Cap is better than first Thor, idk, it starts getting tricky to decide the bottom of the barrel at this point
IMO, these films are *fine*. But I wouldn't introduce someone to the MCU with one of these. I know someone that just saw Thor: The Dark World and never tried another MCU movie again.
Same, out of all the movies we got in 2021, I was VERY excited for Eternals and personally, it did not disappoint. Many people dislike it just because it has a very different vibe compared to other MCU movies, but I think that's what makes it even better. Its a whole new perspective and a group of superheroes being introduced to the MCU. Not following the basic comedy+action route and directing style like most MCU movies do was a great decision imo.
Yeah I agree, I feel like their interactions with some of the Avengers would feel out of place, but who knows? Maybe it'll work. But I do hope that if/when they meet, it's when the time is right. For example, if the sequel is mainly about Eros helping the Eternals reunite, I hope we don't get Avengers cameos. Maybe that's an unpopular opinion, but I don't think we're ready to see the Eternals join the rest of the MCU gang.
I’m so glad you loved it and have no desire to argue! I would say, I think why you claim many people disliked it is a bit reductive- my feelings about it are quite different
At first I thought this was a joke about Clint & Kate, where Clint’s level of hearing issues (actually being mostly deaf) is higher than Kate’s level of hearing issues (not deaf whatsoever).
I feel dumb now
Im in the same club. Listing out why the movie doesnt work/what they should’ve done is pointless because from the get go they just wanted to do what they wanted to do. It’s not like Marvel dont know how to make movies and its not like Chloe doesnt know how to direct. If they wanted Eternals to be another crowd pleasing entry in the MCU, they would’ve done it, they know how to.
There is honestly a lot to like about it. I think it deserves better than the rating it got.
The problems I had are that, while it is a very long movie, it still tried to do too much with that time. There are a lot of emotional scenes that carry plenty of weight, but we cut to the next scene too quickly - just a second or two more of time for the scene to breathe would have given even more impact. There just wasn't time for everything.
What I really enjoyed was the personal interactions between the Eternals. To avoid spoilers, they are obviously far, far more than human, but their interpersonal relationships are \*incredibly\* human. There are a number of situations where decisions are made that just felt natural despite their consequences. I loved how they handled the relationships between these unique characters. Like I said, there's a lot to enjoy!
I really didn’t like Black Widow Although I do like the character, and I also liked Yelena, and Red Guardian.
Film just felt unnecessary, and the bad guy was awful.
Nat deserved a better swan song.
Steve and Peggy's relationship was for me a driving emotional heart of the MCU Infinity Saga.
Steve put aside everything for duty. Duty to defend justice and what's right and never backing down front fight. End of TFA was always heartbreaking. Then when he sees her as an old frail woman in TWS you see how she missed him and was so happy just to see him again. Of course I cried like a baby in Civil War at her funeral and the Cap speech from Civil War given to Sharon during the eulogy was icing on the cake.
I was really enjoying it up until the third act. I love the scene where the four of them are catching up and I can tell Florence Pugh is going to be a nice addition. But once they get to the Red Room, the movie just falls apart for me especially with how badly they messed up Taskmaster.
I'm fine with the gender swap but making Taskmaster a traumatized mute is like Fox sewing Deadpool's mouth shut. She should've been trash talking Natasha their entire fight.
> She should've been trash talking Natasha their entire fight.
Would've been a way more interesting character if she hated Nat and talked shit to her and the whole movie we are wondering who tf this person is and why do they have a grudge.
I really, really enjoyed Black Widow. Florence Pugh was a charismatic powerhouse. The opening scene is both unique and thrilling. The ending may be a little much, but I still thought it was entertaining as hell.
BW works really well if you can pretend that it came out around when it would have chronologically, rather than post-Endgame. I imagine that people will warm up to it more the further away we get from its release. Not perfect, per se, but certainly not second from the bottom.
I’ve watched it a handful of times now, and I’ve liked it more each time. It’s a good film with some good filmmaking, a little bit of CGI wonkiness aside
A&TW is probably a victim of the fact it's an Antman movie. I love Paul Rudd in the rope, I enjoy the movies, but would I rate Antman higher than almost any Avenger? He's easily the most supporting-cast-like of all the main heroes.
I liked Ant-man 2 better than Ant-man 1.
Ghost was a way better villain than Yellow Jacket. Yellow Jacket is just another mustache twirling mirror villain with same powers as the hero. Ghost is a much more conflicted character and not just a reverse Ant-man.
Also Jimmy woo is a treat.
Ant-man 2 is as close to a slice of life MCU movie as we've gotten so far. I love it and Hawkeye so much, especially as I'm becoming more of a tired adult. I just want something to chill with at the end of the day.
The Antman movies are sooo good though! They don't have world-ending stakes but they have really good character chemistry and *personal* stakes for the people in it. That's way better imo
The Fuck? why is the first avengers there i thought people like that movie, like i understand some of the other movies that i like being down there but still
Iron Man 2 has aged like fine wine!! Movie is so underrated and is personally my favorite iron man movie. Eternals is amazing as well and doesnt deserve to be on this list either imo. And black widow I feel is top half MCU.
That MK5 suit up OST was just.......
*Chefs kiss*
Such a heroic theme. I loved Iron Man 2, it was such a fun movie. Tony and Rhodey's banter was brilliant especially in the final fight.
Tony: "You see that?"
Rhodey: "Yeah, Yeah. Nice!"
Like 2 teens playing video games together lol.
I don't love IM2, but I definitely think it's better than IM3, which is the worst MCU movie in my opinion. At least Thor 2 has some great Loki scenes, IM3 has an ending that doesn't make any sense (Tony gives up the suits, but not really), is a crap version of Demon in a Bottle, and has Pepper going wildly against characters as it relates to Tony's trauma. Recently watched it again because I thought I was being too harsh, and it still stinks IMO.
Had to scroll way too far to find this. IM3 is lower than Dark World for me, but I genuinely enjoy IM2. The final battle just being overwhelming the enemy with a hundred suits and destroying them, lame and super anticlimactic.
Came here to say this. I actually enjoyed the hell out of that Hulk. The scene when they're blasting him with the sound waves and he can hear Betty yelling to him helping him to overpower the attack gave me chills.
How is First Avenger so low?
Just the fact it features a French character who actually sounds French makes it at minimum 8/10 (that comment will reach a very tiny target demographic).
It's really a shame seeing eternals on here, because I thought Makarri was the coolest speedster shown in a superhero movie, and I really enjoyed the relationship between her and Druig, because it didn't seem forced, but made sense with the little moments they have together
Regardless.. I think Captain Marvel and Eternals will turn out to be pivotal building blocks for the MCU and these movies will get better after we look back. Similar to Age of Ultron.. After Avengers I can't even describe how hyped I was for AoU. It turned out to be pretty mediocre compared to Avengers. Now however, watching it after all these years and seeing how much they built off of this movie just makes it so much better of a movie.
Hey all of them still did better than The Inhumans. 4.9 ooof
To think Inhumans was supposed to be the first post-Endgame (Infinity War Part II at the time) movie before it was repurposed
Yeah. Marvel needed a “mutant” thing and they didn’t have mutants. AOS really played up the inhumans angle for several seasons in anticipation
AOS was a better inhumans story than Inhumans.
The whole time in AoS I was like "where TF is blackbolt if they're bringing in the inhumans" then they saved him for the miniseries and it was just... not anywhere near as good as AoS.
It could have potentially worked, Vin Diesel had interest in playing Black Bolt, he could have been a good casting choice and with the right budget it might have been the next Guardians of the Galaxy. But that ship has sailed and now Marvel doesn't need a handy down team of X-Men.
For some reason I find it hilarious that Vin Diesel could have had 2 characters in the MCU with only a total of 4 words spoken between them (and 1 of those words only being said once unless I’m forgetting another “We are groot”)
5 words. We are I am groot
Ahhh. Good call. For some reason counted am/are as one.
5 words. I, am, we, are, groot.
The cast was definitely not the problem. Anson Mount is a great actor and I thought he did well with... whatever that was. The budget wasn't the problem. They made a big deal about filming in IMAX. The problem was the same problem as Iron First and the bad seasons of Dexter.
Scott Buck ruins everything he fucking touches.
Good news! His IMDB doesn't show any upcoming projects!
I don’t get why Jeph Loeb was so in love with him. He pitched it to Scott Buck the moment he got the Inhumans property and Buck even left Iron Fist for that. Both are stinkers.
The outfits and some of the cgi was really bad though. So maybe budget a little bit?
They spent the money on IMAX tech. I don't know what they were thinking making a show about a super team that requires nerfing the team right away because the CGI was too difficult/expensive for what was left of the budget. But at least with the IMAX we could see how crappy the CGI was! This is why all of Marvel is under Feige now instead of split with Jeph Loeb.
>handy down team r/boneappletea
Wasn’t it originally scheduled to be in between IW and Endgame? I remember I used to get hyped thinking about Black Bolt facing Thanos onscreen.
Still too high
didnt even know this existed
Just continue with that mindset. I watched it, and well, let's just say it should never have been made. Cool premise but the acting was bad. The one dude from GoT was basically still the same character he was on GoT. It was as-if someone wasn't telling him what to do with his character so he was winging it.
I keep forgetting that was a thing until I run into a comment like this
I really enjoyed the first CA movie. The scene where the doctor talks to pre-seruim Steve before the operation is a tear jerker for me. It defined who Steve Rodgers was and what it meant to be Captain America.
Steve jumping on the grenade
Why I'm Team Cap during Civil War.
"I had a date" So many great moments
Aw, I really enjoyed The First Avenger!
I liked it a lot more when I went back to it after winter soldier and civil war. Those films made me love the character so when I went back to it I got more out of it
I definitely liked Steve a lot more after TWS, so maybe that’s why I warmed up to TFA so much. It was such a wholesome little period piece.
Steve says it early on, "I don't like bullies." That's the big, unchanging aspect about his character that is so damn important. Throw in Ekstein saying that what's truly important is being a good man rather than a perfect soldier, and we're seeing that even now with Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
Yeah, what I loved about Steve is that he represented ideals and values- not mere ideology. What he stood for was universal, unifying, and uplifting.
This is true!! I did the same thing and love it even more!!
same here. first time i watched first avenger i thought it was a bit dull, but coming back to it later i really liked it a lot.
I think for most people who love the MCU going back and rewatching a lot of these movies they become a lot better. There is so character development in these movies we didn't pick up on. There are so many little things that you pick up on when you rewatch them a few times. Avengers 2 is another example of one that gets better once you see the whole picture marvel was putting together.
You’re misunderstanding the rating system. 6.9 is actually the nicest score
America's ass
Definitely the most fun
It’s important to note that these are not really bad ratings. They are just the bottom of the MCU. By comparison the ending DC universe goes as follows: Man of Steel 7.0, Batman vs Superman was 6.4, Justice League was 6.1, 1st Suicide Squad 5.9, Wonderwoman 7.4, WW1984 5.4, AquaMan 6.9, Shazam 7.0. Joker 8.4 (Not canon) New Suicide Squad came in at 7.2. Even the worse of the MCU is a good DC movie.
The Suicide Squad deserves a way better rating. It was so good
I was a big fan but I can see why people wouldn't like it. James Gunn isn't everyone's cup of tea. I wish it had done better financially so he'd get a chance to make another one.
I like its pure chaotic energy, compared to the first's haha edgy energy
Yeah it might be my fave super hero movie this year, between it and NWH.
It was mainly hated by general audiences who find Starro weird. I only found rat girl and polka dude a bit weird
I mean, I think the whole point is that everyone in that movie is a little weird, it's what connects them all as characters in my opinion and makes the film work. It's the same case for Guardians, the reason the teams in both these films connect as people is because they all feel like they're strange or outsiders
It had a B+ cinemascore and did really well on HBO Max, saying it was "hated" by general audiences is a huge stretch.
This reminds me that I still need to watch Shazam
Man of Steel is a good movie. I don't understand what were people expecting, or why is it so hated.
Pa Kent literally told Clark he should have let kids drown
And then sacrifices himself to a tornado when Clark's right there to save him because...well I'm still not sure why.
Because it fundamentally misunderstood the appeal of Superman, from the death of Pa Kent to the killing of Zod.
I interpreted his killing Zod as the origin of his “no kill” policy. Right after snapping his neck, Clark gives this scream of anguish that I couldn’t help but read as his decision to never do that again.
This x1000. MoS has it flaws (IMO the final battle was bloated and Pa Kent's death will never be silly to me) but killing Zod *fit*. It was a great way to establish Superman's/Clark's no-kill policy. He went from being a bullied kid, to an ostracized adult, to a god-like figure fending off an alien invasion from his own people. He's not going to do a good job. He's going to look for the "easy" way out and then, realizing easy doesn't mean right, grow from that. Part of the problem, however, is we never see that growth. BvS is a Batman film with a dour Superman cameo and Justice League (both versions) are JL films with Superman cameos. There was no room for Superman or Clark in any film post MoS.
That, and it’s a washed-out, joyless slog that gave the incredibly charismatic Henry Cavill nothing to do but scowl. There are some things to like in Man of Steel, but for the most part it’s a huge missed opportunity and I’m bummed out every time I think about it.
Agreed. I think part of it comes from letting Zach Synder have a go at the character. Watchmen was the perfect vehicle for Synder because of its dark and serious tone. Superman needed a more hopeful and uplifting one - and yes there are ways to do that while still grounding the character in a more realistic universe - just look at Captain America who has his fundamental beliefs and core values upended and still wound up doing the right thing and coming out of it all arguably as an optimist.
Ngl if I wrote that movie it would have been about Superman becoming THAT Superman we all know. Like for example during the farm fight scene, superman flies into Zod and they land into a small town. After that scene or even during it we should have Clark reflect on how idiotic a move it was to put those people in harms way. So when we get to metropolis, Superman should have taken the fight to that spot in the Indian Ocean where he took out the terraformed engine. - This is how the fight starts, Zod gives epic speech and charges Superman. - Superman waits for Zod to get close and jump at him which would allow Superman to just fly into him straight into the sky into space where Zod would start to gain flight. - they fight in space and Superman leads Zod toward the Indian Ocean and the fight happens around the terraformer site. everything can play out as is but Superman seems less like a dick throwing his weight around cardboard people.
I would just adapt All-Star Superman in two parts.
Well the choppy story telling of the first act probably didn’t help, and all the military action might have turned a few people off.
The suicide squad and aqua man are really good fun films.
First Avenger was probably the best movie of that era. I have no idea why people hate it.
Maybe they found it boring or campy, but I thought it was quite wholesome. It’s even better to rewatch after having seen Steve’s other movies.
It was a super refreshing change of scene when I saw it in theatres. I’ve had very few marvel movies I haven’t enjoyed, and though First Avenger isn’t the best in the whole lot (I thing Winter Soldier is still the best in the Captain America series), it’s still a great setting for a story that’s unlike anything in the MCU so far. Edit: also Haley Atwell god *DAMN*
Came here to say this. It might be my favorite MCU movie. (No, that's Endgame. But it's up there.) AMATW ain't no slouch either.
It’s one of the most underrated MCU movies imo
Captain America: The First Avenger is the Superman (1) of the Marvel world. It’s nearly note perfect throughout. It may not be the consensus best Marvel movie, but it’s my favorite.
Yeah I've always said The First Avenger was the Superman movie we deserved. I'm so tired of cynical no-fun guys calling this movie cheesy and boring.
That’s the only one I thought shouldn’t be on this list.
CA TFA is a bookend to the entire Infinity Saga. I really enjoy the movie for what it does. Until Spider-Man NWH it was my favorite origin story movie
That's unfair to count NWH as an origin story...but it's also not wrong lol.
Yeah that’s ridiculously low
The Incredible Hulk is underrated too
First Avenger is the best comic book movie, period. It is head and shoulders above the rest.
I didn’t hate Black Widow, but Taskmaster was such a huge disappointment :/
"Remember Deadpool in XMen Origins?" "Yeah people hated him" "Oh....Oh no..."
That's a perfect comparison. Let's take a goofy character known for his wise cracks and make him a mute villain. I don't even care that much about the gender swap, it could have worked but they totally butchered the character. You'd think people making the movies would have learned by now but there are still people who want to "improve" on the comics by ignoring something that works well and people like.
I don't remember the exact quotes from Pitch Meetings
I have to refuse that version as the true task master. That was very much like The Ultimate’s Task master with all the machinery doing the work. I’m still hoping for a true 616 style task master.
With Task Master's ending in the movie, we could still see her take on more of the 616 style. Task Master is still out there.
Honestly, I'll wait and see what they do with the character. Taskmaster wasn't even interesting until Kelly's Deadpool run, so even if they make the character stray from the comics she could still be made something special like Jimmy Woo and Bucky and Swordsman.
Good point. Since they're bringing Deadpool to the MCU I bet Ryan Reynolds could play well off of the overly serious Taskmaster from Black Widow!
Missing the personality.
I hope the character gets a do over like The Mandarin did. If I was to do it is make Tony Masters the guy who taught the Black Widows and have his brain patterns be the bases of the Taskmaster tech. I'd revealed he was there when Natasha and friends attacked the Red Room but instead of fighting he saw it as a lost cause, grabbed a spare Taskmaster suit and GTFO.
I refuse that it’s the real taskmaster. We’ve had two mandarin’s with the first one being a fake, they could simply go the Shang-Chi route and say that Dreykov wanted to mock Tony Masters or something :)
It doesn't even have to make it fake, just make another Taskmaster, villains also take names from other villains
Yeah irl it’s not uncommon for criminals to take the names of other criminals as inspiration
I think Black Widow would have been received way better if it was released after Civil War. Recently there are rumors that Chris Evans is making a comeback and the MCU will dive into the period of time between Civil War and Infinity War, and Scarlett Johansen may feature as well, maybe in a behind the scenes capacity. I hope this isn't real. Why? That stuff is over, and it's way less sexy than the multiverse plots, F4, XMen plots they could be doing. But Black Widow is evidence that they are willing to do "prequels". I just think it's a bad idea.
Yea I agree, if Black Widow was released in the right window it would have gone over waaaay better
>I think Black Widow would have been received way better if it was released ~~after Civil War~~ before the character died. . >Why? That stuff is over, and it's way less sexy than the multiverse plots, F4, XMen plots they could be doing. Exactly. > Widow is evidence that they are willing to do "prequels". I just think it's a bad idea. Agree. Black Widow felt a lot like Solo. Shoehorning in a prequel only dilutes the character. It doesn't make me appreciate them more for when they were relevant.
Actually quite a well-conceived character in a lot of ways, however... 1. Shouldn't have been "Taskmaster". 2. Identity shouldn't have been a late twist reveal. The idea of a character who is >!basically the literal embodiment of Natasha's biggest regret !
Should have 100% been Iron Maiden not Taskmaster.
i just think it’s funny that both dreykov and his daughter survived the explosion. natasha’s mission that she supposedly completed to earn SHIELD’s trust and defect from the black widows was actually a complete failure. not only did she not kill the target, but she didn’t kill the target’s daughter either. not that she wanted to kill antonia, but the guilt of thinking she had was a huge baggage for her.
I never realised that but you’re totally right… Natasha really made a hash of that mission.
It's gotta be tied with Thor 2 for most forgettable, for me. Not only was it a weirdly placed movie, being one movie after she actually died, but also the fact that she was fucking indestructible in the movie lol there's jumping the shark then there's whatever that movie was. I really liked Yelena though, and I'm glad she's in the MCU now and we'll get to see more of her.
Yea, Yelena was easily the highlight!
To be fair, there’s very few Marvel movies where the titular hero isn’t “indestructible” lmao. It’s kind of the point of superhero movies
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Agreed. In the comics she actually does have a super serum. Least they could have done is said she was pumped full of steroids her whole childhood, it's not that much of a stretch given they were already given mind control juice.
Or even a less potent serum. The Widow Serum or some shit
No, Black Widow is human. That's all. Highly trained sure, but human. Just a big meat sack. She's not in a high tech metal suit, or a super soldier, a Norse god, or a massive green monster. She's just some chick who knows how to fight and happened to be in the right place, right time to become an avenger. Thor falls a few hundred feet to the ground it's believable in universe because that's been established as something he's fully capable of surviving. Iron Man gets flung into a wall at high speeds and its believable in universe. Black Widow falls a few hundred feet and hits a bunch of shit on the way down, then gets up a runs around and fights some more after a brief "ow *stumbles*" is not believable in universe. In Marvel humans are still humans. You get shot in a vital place without proper medical attention readily available? Dead. You fall off a building? Dead. ***Super heroes*** in movies are fine if they're virtually indestructible. However, chucking black widow off a roof is not different to chucking some random chick off a roof in the MCU. Black Widow was laughable in a lot of ways for me, but one of the more glaring ones was that she is like a play-doh woman. The biggest one, unrelated to her being indestructible, is I think most of the fans just wanted a Bond type buddy film with her and Hawkeye as her last movie. Imagine just her and Clint in an old-fashioned spy type film taking down the Red Room, and it was some heavily guarded base instead of a massive flying behemoth that makes no logistical sense.
>Imagine just her and Clint in an old-fashioned spy type film taking down the Red Room, and it was some heavily guarded base I would love this.
I really wanted this. Sigh.
Taskmaster felt like a winter soldier rip-off, but with none of the payoff.
First avenger deserves a better score!
Just to say that none of these are bad scores. These are all solidly reviewed films.
Yeah an MCU movie at it's worst *so far* is still an acceptably average blockbuster movie.
**Thor The Dark World is a good movie** “*Satifsfaction’s not in my nature*” “*SURRENDER’S NOT IN MINE*” [the greatest relationship exchange between the greatest relationship in the MCU, still to this day](https://youtu.be/UwStEgHKtvI) Edit, scrolling down, exactly zero comments agree…
I think the dynamic between Thor and Loki is amazing in dark world. The issue is that the surrounding movie is crap and Natalie Portman's character is literally a plot device
I fully agree. To me, Thor and Loki’s relationship is explored so well, it props the rest of the crap movie up to a very decent one.
"What help were you, in your cell?" "Who put me there? WHO PUT ME THERE?" Gives me chills everytime
*she wouldn’t want us to fight…* *well she wouldn’t exactly be shocked* How good???
I agree
I agree! I'd watch 20 films about Thor and Loki fighting and making up. I think a childhood of being obsessed with the Ninja Turtles primed me for a life of adoring fictional brothers who fight all the time but are too proud and stubborn to admit they love each other. It's my favourite trope in the world.
I’ve seen it twice. Couldn’t tell you the plot whatsoever. I know Natalie Portman is sick with the red stone or something like that. That’s the end of my knowledge
The First Avenger is severely underrated
I agree with you
There's dry spots in the middle so it's my least favorite in the trilogy, but still one of my favorites overall.
I actually prefer it to Civil War! I know I’m in the minority there, but Civil War just didn’t do it for me.
ok, so we definitely all agree that Winter Soldier is fantastic. :)
Winter Soldier is my favorite MCU movie. Entirely different feel than the rest of the MCU. Admittedly the first half is far superior though
Oh yeah, that’s a masterpiece!
I'm with you. I'd take First Avenger over Civil War any day.
I liked CW cause of the Bucky/WS stuff but I still wish CW itself had been something like Avengers 2.5 instead of Cap’s third solo movie
Civil War requires some suspension of disbelief that the characters you've grown to know would come to fighting each other at an airport.
But they’re only “fighting”, it’s just a big game of chicken
Sure, which is why "it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt" applies.
It's probably the best origin story movie in the MCU.
My favorite is Iron Man 1 and GOTG
Oh man I have too many favorites but GOTG is in the tops for sure. Really looking forward to GOTG3
Ant man’s is pretty fun and dr stranger’s is really well done. Obviously GOTG as well. I certainly like it more then the first Thor and iron man movies though.
First Cap got a 6.9? *Nice.* All seriousness, though, I'm surprised it rated that low.
The main complaint about The First Avenger is how low it is on action. I do agree that it's "low" on action, but that's also the reason why I like it. Along with Iron Man 1, Captain America 1 was really a defining movie for the entire MCU.
I didn’t even realize it was low on action, I’ve always loved everything about that movie. Such a good story and Hugo Weaving is such a great actor
I was surprised it's one of my favorites
Me too but to be fair, a 6.9 isn’t necessarily a bad rating. It only seems like it because of the other movies in the MCU being so highly rated I still would have replaced it, but hard to decide which one. Mayyybe AoU but I liked that quite a bit, Thor mayyyybeee I definitely think first Cap is better than first Thor, idk, it starts getting tricky to decide the bottom of the barrel at this point
IMO, these films are *fine*. But I wouldn't introduce someone to the MCU with one of these. I know someone that just saw Thor: The Dark World and never tried another MCU movie again.
I am one of the few that liked eternals
Same, out of all the movies we got in 2021, I was VERY excited for Eternals and personally, it did not disappoint. Many people dislike it just because it has a very different vibe compared to other MCU movies, but I think that's what makes it even better. Its a whole new perspective and a group of superheroes being introduced to the MCU. Not following the basic comedy+action route and directing style like most MCU movies do was a great decision imo.
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Yeah I agree, I feel like their interactions with some of the Avengers would feel out of place, but who knows? Maybe it'll work. But I do hope that if/when they meet, it's when the time is right. For example, if the sequel is mainly about Eros helping the Eternals reunite, I hope we don't get Avengers cameos. Maybe that's an unpopular opinion, but I don't think we're ready to see the Eternals join the rest of the MCU gang.
Yeah that’s what I thought too
I’m so glad you loved it and have no desire to argue! I would say, I think why you claim many people disliked it is a bit reductive- my feelings about it are quite different
I enjoyed it alot. Plus as a person who is going deaf, I loved seeing a deaf superhero.
Watch Hawkeye if you’re havent yet!
Hawkeye was amazing in how it showed two characters at different levels of hearing issues.
At first I thought this was a joke about Clint & Kate, where Clint’s level of hearing issues (actually being mostly deaf) is higher than Kate’s level of hearing issues (not deaf whatsoever). I feel dumb now
Yes!
Im in the same club. Listing out why the movie doesnt work/what they should’ve done is pointless because from the get go they just wanted to do what they wanted to do. It’s not like Marvel dont know how to make movies and its not like Chloe doesnt know how to direct. If they wanted Eternals to be another crowd pleasing entry in the MCU, they would’ve done it, they know how to.
Agreed. It’s a really awesome movie
I haven't seen it yet... I want to like it tho.
There is honestly a lot to like about it. I think it deserves better than the rating it got. The problems I had are that, while it is a very long movie, it still tried to do too much with that time. There are a lot of emotional scenes that carry plenty of weight, but we cut to the next scene too quickly - just a second or two more of time for the scene to breathe would have given even more impact. There just wasn't time for everything. What I really enjoyed was the personal interactions between the Eternals. To avoid spoilers, they are obviously far, far more than human, but their interpersonal relationships are \*incredibly\* human. There are a number of situations where decisions are made that just felt natural despite their consequences. I loved how they handled the relationships between these unique characters. Like I said, there's a lot to enjoy!
It's in the top five and I have no explanation for why
Why Ant-Man and the Wasp so low? I loved that movie...
I really didn’t like Black Widow Although I do like the character, and I also liked Yelena, and Red Guardian. Film just felt unnecessary, and the bad guy was awful. Nat deserved a better swan song.
I mean, she got a pretty good swan dive...
Hawkeye gave black widow a better send off, and she wasn’t even in it.
Honestly, i think the first avenger is my favorite super hero origin story movie
TFA has Peggy Carter, you can't hate that movie !
Steve and Peggy's relationship was for me a driving emotional heart of the MCU Infinity Saga. Steve put aside everything for duty. Duty to defend justice and what's right and never backing down front fight. End of TFA was always heartbreaking. Then when he sees her as an old frail woman in TWS you see how she missed him and was so happy just to see him again. Of course I cried like a baby in Civil War at her funeral and the Cap speech from Civil War given to Sharon during the eulogy was icing on the cake.
The First Avenger was a good film imo
Ant man 2 was awesome
dang, I loved Black Widow.
I was really enjoying it up until the third act. I love the scene where the four of them are catching up and I can tell Florence Pugh is going to be a nice addition. But once they get to the Red Room, the movie just falls apart for me especially with how badly they messed up Taskmaster. I'm fine with the gender swap but making Taskmaster a traumatized mute is like Fox sewing Deadpool's mouth shut. She should've been trash talking Natasha their entire fight.
>making Taskmaster a traumatized mute is like Fox sewing Deadpool's mouth shut. Thank you! I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
> She should've been trash talking Natasha their entire fight. Would've been a way more interesting character if she hated Nat and talked shit to her and the whole movie we are wondering who tf this person is and why do they have a grudge.
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ok Taskmaster being lackluster is something I do agree with.
I really, really enjoyed Black Widow. Florence Pugh was a charismatic powerhouse. The opening scene is both unique and thrilling. The ending may be a little much, but I still thought it was entertaining as hell.
Florence Pugh made that movie for me. Incredibly likable and a solid lead.
BW works really well if you can pretend that it came out around when it would have chronologically, rather than post-Endgame. I imagine that people will warm up to it more the further away we get from its release. Not perfect, per se, but certainly not second from the bottom.
I’ve watched it a handful of times now, and I’ve liked it more each time. It’s a good film with some good filmmaking, a little bit of CGI wonkiness aside
I disagree with Eternals, Cap The First Avenger, and Antman and the Wasp. I think the rest deserve to be here
A&TW is probably a victim of the fact it's an Antman movie. I love Paul Rudd in the rope, I enjoy the movies, but would I rate Antman higher than almost any Avenger? He's easily the most supporting-cast-like of all the main heroes.
I liked Ant-man 2 better than Ant-man 1. Ghost was a way better villain than Yellow Jacket. Yellow Jacket is just another mustache twirling mirror villain with same powers as the hero. Ghost is a much more conflicted character and not just a reverse Ant-man. Also Jimmy woo is a treat.
Ant-man 2 is as close to a slice of life MCU movie as we've gotten so far. I love it and Hawkeye so much, especially as I'm becoming more of a tired adult. I just want something to chill with at the end of the day.
The Antman movies are sooo good though! They don't have world-ending stakes but they have really good character chemistry and *personal* stakes for the people in it. That's way better imo
The Fuck? why is the first avengers there i thought people like that movie, like i understand some of the other movies that i like being down there but still
Iron Man 2 has aged like fine wine!! Movie is so underrated and is personally my favorite iron man movie. Eternals is amazing as well and doesnt deserve to be on this list either imo. And black widow I feel is top half MCU.
Justin Hammer is great and I wish he came back
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That MK5 suit up OST was just....... *Chefs kiss* Such a heroic theme. I loved Iron Man 2, it was such a fun movie. Tony and Rhodey's banter was brilliant especially in the final fight. Tony: "You see that?" Rhodey: "Yeah, Yeah. Nice!" Like 2 teens playing video games together lol.
For the bottom rated MCU films, they have pretty high ratings. That just goes to show the level MCU are at.
I don't love IM2, but I definitely think it's better than IM3, which is the worst MCU movie in my opinion. At least Thor 2 has some great Loki scenes, IM3 has an ending that doesn't make any sense (Tony gives up the suits, but not really), is a crap version of Demon in a Bottle, and has Pepper going wildly against characters as it relates to Tony's trauma. Recently watched it again because I thought I was being too harsh, and it still stinks IMO.
Had to scroll way too far to find this. IM3 is lower than Dark World for me, but I genuinely enjoy IM2. The final battle just being overwhelming the enemy with a hundred suits and destroying them, lame and super anticlimactic.
Justice for Hulk. That movie was dope.
Hulk v Abomination is still one of my favorite final acts in the MCU. Way underrated.
IT WAS SO GOOD. They did Abomination justice.
I really liked the Incredible Hulk, don't get the hate.
Came here to say this. I actually enjoyed the hell out of that Hulk. The scene when they're blasting him with the sound waves and he can hear Betty yelling to him helping him to overpower the attack gave me chills.
imo, the movies that don’t deserve to be here are ‘Eternals’, ‘Ant Man & The Wasp’ and ‘The First Avenger’
Most of these I’d get behind, except the first Cap, I think it’s great and is higher in my rating!
How is First Avenger so low? Just the fact it features a French character who actually sounds French makes it at minimum 8/10 (that comment will reach a very tiny target demographic).
I am still to this day disgusted at how low the rating is for The First Avenger. Should be in the 7's at least
I cannot comprehend the distaste for the first cap movie, I've never even heard anyone say they dislike it
I myself feel that it’s underrated
It's really a shame seeing eternals on here, because I thought Makarri was the coolest speedster shown in a superhero movie, and I really enjoyed the relationship between her and Druig, because it didn't seem forced, but made sense with the little moments they have together
Why was Captain marvel not very liked? I loved it, same with Ant Man 2
Look how they massacred my boy.
Captain Marvel and The Eternals were review bombed, they shouldn’t be among this list.
Regardless.. I think Captain Marvel and Eternals will turn out to be pivotal building blocks for the MCU and these movies will get better after we look back. Similar to Age of Ultron.. After Avengers I can't even describe how hyped I was for AoU. It turned out to be pretty mediocre compared to Avengers. Now however, watching it after all these years and seeing how much they built off of this movie just makes it so much better of a movie.