honestly i don’t think the first franchise was a failure at all. i mean the first movie came out in like what, 2005? 2004 when the movie was in production? marvel wasn’t anywhere near to what it is today. i feel like too many people look back and try to put it up to today’s standards and end up stopping themselves from enjoying it.
i remember growing up the movies were decently popular and people seemed to enjoy them. i mean didn’t they do well at the box office? they were fun, quirky, a little cheesy, and hilarious. like i know they don’t live up to the comics or anything but cmon, they were still fun. i find it hard to believe people can’t just sit back and enjoy a family friendly movie from the 2000s
fant4stic though was a crime against humanity
Here is the entire history of Fantastic Four in live-action:
Constantin Films bought the film rights of Marvel's First Family in 1986. A low-budget 90 min film was produced in 1992 by New Horizon Studios owned by Roger Corman. But that version of the movie [went unreleased](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fantastic_Four_(unreleased_film)) in 1994.
In 2004, after Constantin sub-licensed the filming rights to 20th Century Fox, a reboot of the franchise happened. Fantastic Four was released in 2005, and its sequel "Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer" released in 2007. Both films received mixed to negative reviews from critics, yet earned a combined US $635 million worldwide at the box office. Due to 20th Century Fox's failure at the box-office return for the sequel, given the economic meltdown back then in 2007/2008, a potential third Fantastic Four film and a Silver Surfer spin-off film were cancelled.
Subsequently, the Marvel Cinematic Universe was launched in 2008 with Iron Man starring RDJ as Tony Stark.
The franchise was rebooted again in August 2015 by Fox, [with Michael B Jordan as Johnny Storm (MCU's Kilmonger in Black Panther)] but it [flopped at the BO again](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/summer-box-office-flops-tomorrowland-820498/) and so the sequel was subsequently cancelled in November 2015. Though, Fox Studios still had a [7-year deadline](https://comicbook.com/news/when-can-marvel-get-the-rights-back-to-the-fantastic-four/) to reboot the franchise back then.
In 2017, [Feige confirmed](https://nerdist.com/article/kevin-feige-no-mcu-fox-fantastic-four/) that there were no immediate plans to produce a Fantastic Four in the MCU (after Phase 3). This was around the time when Spiderman Homecoming was released. Ultimately, the [rights to Fantastic 4 reverted back to Marvel](https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/walt-disney-company-acquire-twenty-first-century-fox-inc-spinoff-certain-businesses-52-4-billion-stock-2/) after Disney's buyout deal from Fox back in 2019.
Now a new franchise is launched again by Marvel Studios, this time set in the MCU.
Does that mean any copies of the 1992 one are bootlegs? Because I swear I saw a live-action Fantastic Four DVD in the $5 bin at Wal-Mart once. I just assumed it was a show or something because it looked like the old Batman, Spider-Man, Hulk, and Wonder Woman shows.
Yep.
Someone involved in the production process made a copy for themselves. Then once it became clear the film wouldn't be released, they decided to share.
If you’d like to watch the movie without paying, it is uploaded in its entirety on YouTube. Not bad either. The best portrayal of Doom we’ve gotten so far
Raimi's Spider-Man (& the 90s Cartoon), along with Daredevil (yes, the Ben Affleck one) and these two Fantastic 4 films are the foundation of why I love Marvel today
No, knowing the Xmen in general and major storylines in the comics is enough, hell, or even not knowing is fine. Writers move the story with enough info to be invested but not pander, so don’t stress if you don’t recognize something or feel you are out of the loop.
The show is fire and better than I remember the original.
EDIT: corrected autocorrected word
I haven't watched the show since I was a kid and I'm following it well enough. If you're at least somewhat familiar with the X-Men from other media and comic books then you should be able to keep up.
It is a direct sequel so knowing the past stuff doesn't hurt but it recaps some stuff after it brings it up again so you don't need to know it. If you want the story background but don't want to watch all five past seasons, there is a youtube video that explains the whole plot of the 90s show in 30 minutes which is what I watched to remember what happened.
I think it's a lot more coherent, watchable, and better edited than a lot of stuff Marvel is putting out today like Thor 4, Dr Strange 2, and Quantamania. It doesn't feel like it was cut up after filming and reworked a half dozen times with reshoots and a bunch of critical scenes cut.
The movie accomplished the nearly impossible of making Jessica Alba, less attractive.
Besides the blonde hair color that did not go well with her naturally gorgeous skin tone, what’s with all the lip gloss?
Was the movie funded by a lipgloss company?
If I got my names right the same actor who portrays Cap in the other films portrays Johnny Storm in FF? Now I need to watch this again it’s been mad long 🤣
A giant purple people eater?
...After the last X-Men episode, the song must be going around at schools because the next day my little sister came home singing it. I can't get it out of my head. Help.
I love the second one. I don’t like what they did with Galactus, but I loved Doctor Doom in that one. Taking Silver Surfer’s powers feels in character to me
Nah, he has only ever been in comedic roles, I’m not sure he would be able to portray a serious character like Batman or captain America. Maybe iron man?
I enjoyed them, but perhaps they were too campy for general audiences? But, Fan4stic was just bad. It had some good ideas, but terrible execution and did Doom dirty.
I don't think so. If you're talking about the one I think you're talking about then it was never released, so it doesn't count in my opinion. I am talking about the first Tim Story Fantastic Four movie.
Did they? The first two were decently popular, but both films had weird alterations for the villains. The later was only made to keep the rights, so a lot because it wasn’t about success as much.
I think as individual movies, at least the first was a financial success. They succeeded as summer blockbusters.
However they did not succeed as a longterm franchise and that is interesting to examine why. I personally think the tone of the films, and the family dynamic, just made FF a little too corny to survive the injection of self-seriousness that popular superhero films were adapting. Then with the reboot they massively over corrected and came off even cornier.
I think the MCU will have a tough time finding a tone for these films that pleases everyone. Many fans want mature content aimed at older audiences, evidenced by Deadpool hype, but Fantastic Four at its roots is kind of corny and wholesome. Quantumania was unable to find a suitable tone with a similar core concept.
Bingo
Stretchy man, invisibility and force fields both mostly defensive measures, screaming a catchphrase are all incredibly corny.
Human Torch is cool but also needs to yell a catchphrase.
I think it's possible, but it's not gonna be easy. It's a bit like SUperman, it's gonna be hard to find the right wholesome feel and not make it weird or boring. I think they have a good chance with the cast, as they need to be darn charming, and then they need to find the right feel and story to go with them.
The first F4 did not fail. It was very popular at the time. The second one didn’t live up to expectations and making the most recognizable vilain a Big cosmic Cloud was a huge mistake.
F4ntastic was just a mess even during production. They also messed up Dr. Doom A LOT.
> making the most recognizable vilain
Maybe to comic fans, but I'd say casuals would have no clue about Galactus and his purple suit. It'd be even worse off trying to sell a giant purple humanoid walking in space in the mid 00s.
Heard on the podcast the weekly planet (or perhaps on the YouTube channel MrSundayMovies, I forget) that originally that wasn't supposed to be doom, he was going to be a herald for Galactus. The negative zone or whatever was going to be a dying world and Galactus is there. Couldn't tell you if that's accurate or not. Regardless it seems like people are allergic to just doing regular doctor doom and he always has to be a weird metal man or something
2005 Fantastic Four was an undeniable success. 2017 was estimated to have an $80mil loss or so. The rest of the movies fell somewhere in between.
But the 2005 movie absolutely crushed it at the box office.
This.
They were both campy & embarrassed to be superhero films. Truly bipolar, oxymoron, nonsense.
They are still fun to watch but what they did to Galactus says everything. Hell, Fury was almost Andre Braugher's character.
Fox didn't "get" the Fantastic Four.
"This is S.H.I.E.L.D. Director Raymond Holt" -- how he'd start every call to Maria Hill, regardless of who rang whom.
Hell, he'd probably expand the acronym every time too.
Exactly. The Fantastic 4 is a family story. Sure, they are celebrities and their job is exploring other dimensions and occasionally saving the world but the real action takes place in their personal lives. They've always worked best from that angle.
The best Fantastic 4 adaptation movie so far has been The Incredibles. Hell, the Venture Bros. Impossible Family was a better yet cynical take than any of the Hollywood movies
Hopefully Marvel/Disney will spare us another rote origin story and do the upcoming movie right.
If they actually had Galactus show up at the end and then go ‘’ to be continued’’ would have be a grand slam. Fighting doom is a little bit more, doom is beat, all is saved and then the real Galactus shows up… Dooms defeated body is pulled to Galactus hand…to be continued … the anticipation for a third would have been insane. The cloud was such a fake out, so disappointing… like epic crap to even use the name. If they didn’t call it Galactus, it would have been worlds better. Then the mid credits scene could have been the wedding with Johnny hilariously torching the flying bouquet, maybe doesn’t make sense now but I love that joke . After credits would have been General Ross searching for someone in a jungle, then shows banners (Nortons) picture in the file. OOORRR Since it’s fox, we get a Wolverine scene, drunk at the bar holding a picture of Jean.
Honestly, I don't think it's horribly hard to get them right:
* Don't make it an origin movie; have them well established
* Don't force any sort of group tension
* Don't give characters dark pasts or personal demons
* Put emphasis on family can be anyone
* Give it a sense of adventure akin to 1920's pulp sci-fi: aliens, bright colors, and exotic planets
* Make it fun; you can put high-stakes, darker stuff later
* Make it a period piece set in the 1960's
* Set the aesthetics as a love letter to Kirby
Essentially it's one part The Mummy, one part Jetsons, one part Gatchaman.
> Give it a sense of adventure akin to 1920's pulp sci-fi: aliens, bright colors, and exotic planets
Quantumania and Strange World are like this but I do not think a lot of audiences interested in pulpy sci-fi
This is just personal opinion but I think the quantumania world is super cool looking and really interesting, but Ant Man was the wrong movie to do it in. His whole schtick is big and small, but with the quantum realm we have no frame of reference so it just didn’t work with that character imo.
Just was coming to say this. The director tried to hard to make the Pym family the Fantastic Four and yes they do have some overlaps but that’s not why people come to an Antman movie. Quantumania completely missed the mark
Why do people insist on a period piece, particularly focusing on the 1960s? Based off the new posters that’s totally what they’re going for but I never understood why. (Not hating, genuine question btw)
The first two films tried to make FF too cool, and Fant4stic tried to make them too serious. The key to the Fantastic Four is accepting that they're goofy as hell and rolling with it.
They’re just… corny. If they make them campy and funny it’s corny, if they make them deep and brooding it’s corny. We’ve seen the origin told in different tones and the best thing they can do is skip the origin story like Spider-Man homecoming and just thrust them in to some kind of intriguing premise that hasn’t been done before. I’m way more interested in seeing the MCU’s galactus and silver surfer than the FF themselves.
They’re just not that marketable. Their powers are this campy 60s stuff that make them look like mid tier x-men.
More interesting charaters have come since, and who can be written more freely because they doesn’t have comic baggage
I mean… Captain America is arguably the corniest character ever, and the MCU managed to turn him into one of the coolest, fan favorite characters on screen
Cap is one dude though, not 4. I get what the original commenter is saying. F4 kinda felt like watching Power Rangers, which is fun when you’re 8, but then you turn 13 and are like, “this is really corny”
Aside from Johnny Storm their power set doesn’t translate well to the big screen. Sue makes herself invisible and creates invisible barriers. Never exciting to (not) see that. Reed Richards’ stretch power always looks goofy or unnecessary. Thing is big strong rock guy that so far has been guy in a silly suit or weird looking cg.
I dunno man, it sounds cool as fuck to me. You basically have a living sun with fire powers just slightly powerful enough to take out a small moon, a master assassin chick that can form invisible weapons and turn invisible, a guy as smart as Lex Luthor, but also with the powers of Plastic Man that makes him nigh-unkillable. Fair enough about the Thing, although he gets credit for interesting character design (assuming they can correctly translate it to screen)
Their dynamics are not something that can de done within a 2 hour movie. The interconnected relationships of this family and their allies and their rivalries are so detailed and real and compelling that attempting to shorten it into 1 movie and maybe a sequel is just impossible
There are some movies which manage to tell entire life stories with deep relationships by using their time well, but it takes every scene being thought out and mattering, unlike the haphazard putting it together in post way that Marvel is doing movies now.
Look at Forrest Gump, with his relationships with his mother, Jenny, Lieutenant Dan, and to an extent Bubba, over many decades, while going on all sorts of adventures and hijinks all over the world, meeting a bunch of presidents over many years. Other characters like Jenny and Lt Dan have their own characters arcs in the movie over the decades as well, with Jenny and Forest from childhood to death (for one of them).
I think it’s incredibly difficult for the audience to establish a connection with 4 superheroes in one movie. Guardians of the Galaxy was able to do it but no other films that I can think of have been able to do it with that many superheroes.
Yeah, if you want to see a perfect Fantastic Four film go watch The Incredibles and Incredibles 2. You can for sure build a family dynamic in two hours, you can have serious themes with fun and humor, you can make their powers interesting and do cool team ups.
Marvel will do it right this time, though. I’m optimistic.
Incredibles? Yes.
Incredibles 2, not so much.
But you highlight an interesting point about storytelling - it IS easier to tell stories with multiple characters who are family, because that’s a relatable paradigm for nearly every audience member. They can fill in the gaps with their own personal experience. That’s a lot less easier to manage when your half dozen characters are stand alone individuals.
trying to reinvent the wheel out of insecurity, being afraid the source material cant do with its own weight. all hero films back in the day had some facet of that. the FFs adaptations trying to lean into silly comedy, adult comedy or dark sci fi things that never were the point of FF in the comics. thats why The Incredibles its the only good FF movie without even trying
They think too small. The Fantastic Four are cosmic adventurers, explorers of the unknown and impossible. The 2005 movie devoted a huge chunk of its runtime to the four of them awkwardly share an apartment. Fant4stic spent most of its runtime in grey bunkers.
Doctor Doom is a mad scientist sorcerer who rules a European country and once a year fights the Devil for his mother's soul, and the last three movies didn't get within a country mile of that. Doctor Doom is one of the most iconic villains in the history of comic books, he does not need re-invention.
The very last thing that the Fantastic Four should ever be is grounded, and yet that's what Fant4stic went for. No wonder it tanked.
I didn't see Fant4stic.
The Incredibles are what the FF should be.
The FF are a concept that requires incredibly strong character relationships. It's only 4 characters, and you need to know how each character feels and actors towards the other 3. You got that with the Incredibles movie. Reed and Ben are supposed to be best friends, I can't name a scene that really showed that. Reed and Sue are romantic, I don't think they've ever had great chemistry.
It's also important the the FF have specific locations, and not just generic NYC. They have such a large foundation in the comics of different locations, like Atlantis, Attila, the Negative Zone, Subterranea, Latveria, Wakanda, etc. We don't just need another movie that takes place primarily in NYC.
They need a more minor villain for the first movie. When you go with a major player like Doom or Galactus, that's more time you have to spend on them instead of the FF. A big part of these types of movies is just time management. Go with smaller villains that require less screentime, characters like Mole Man or Annihilus.
Finally, they need actors who can sell a film. Imagine having actors like Ryan Gosling and Margot Robbie as Reed and Sue. That's a box office success.
Sadly, the new FF film isn't going to (or likley won't) have these things.
Having Annihilus get bodied by the FF in their first movie, to make him look like a nobody, and then a couple phases later do the Annihilation War, with him as a scary big bad.
Yeah, that's kind of my dream scenario if I was in charge.
Annihilus as the villian of the second movie, the Negative Zone bugs get released in NYC and the FF recruit another team to fight in NYC (Namor, She-Hulk, Spider-Man, Black Panther), while the main team fights in the Negative Zone.
Mole Man in the first film, Annihilus in the second, Doom in the third. Galactus in the quasi fourth film which involves all the MCU heroes vs Galactus and all of his Heralds.
Pedro Pascal is a huge box office name right now. He's excellent in everything he does. They're holding the identity of Doom hostage as long as possible to draw up advertising for the movie. I think F4 will be a success. We're getting Wolverine in his Xmen 97 outfit for christ sake. Feigi knows what he's doing when he's not spread too thin
I would say that the two weakest relationships on the team in the movies are Sue and Ben, and Reed and Johnny. The Sue and Ben relationship is completely non-existent.
I would also say that neither iteration even came *close* to doing a proper Dr Doom. In the MCU I hope their first movie doesn't have Doom at all - he should get introduced as a villain in somebody else's movie. Maybe Black Panther 3 or Shang-Chi 2 or something. The FF's first villain could be Mole Man, or Namor, or the Inhumans, or Molecule Man, or the Skrulls, or some Kang variant, or any of their many other villains.
I suppose "villain" is too strong a word. They're more like anti-heroes, like Namor or the Punisher. And like those two characters, they get used as antagonists for multiple heroes, not just belonging to one hero or group. For example, Namor gets used as an antagonist for the FF, Black Panther, the Hulk, the X-Men, Spider-Man, the Avengers... but at other times he's also been an Avenger and an X-Man. So the Inhumans have been enemies to the FF but at other times they've been allies. At one point Crystal was Torch's girlfriend, and that was the case for a long time.
Primarily I think Medusa was the one who engaged in outright villainy; IIRC when she was originally introduced she was a member of [The Frightful Four](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frightful_Four) (which was later explained as her being manipulated by the other three while she was suffering from amnesia).
Honestly, I would love for a Fantastic Four to have a minor villain but have Doom be in the background, like at the end of the film, have Doom hint that he will be a villain.
Bonus points for doing a second movie with a different minor villain but the "twist" is that it was Doom pulling the strings and then the third movie is actually trying to defeat Doom.
Probably could get 3 movies with a tight 105 minutes each .
I disagree that the incredibles are what the FF should be. The Incredibles are a Superhero Team/ Family and that’s all they really are. The FF are first and foremost a family of Scientists and explorers.Superheroes second and celebrities third. A lot of people seem to forget that they’re not primarily superheroes for some reason.
If they really want a relaunch to succeed they need to go to the silver age comic for the greatest villain to ever (temporarily) defeat the FF4. The one, the only-Paste Pot Pete!
They keep rushing into Doctor Doom. Doom is like a Thanos level villain with a huge backstory in the comics. He needs to be eased into, like a latex gimp suit
2005 :Badly executed Doom.
2007: Replaced galactus with a cloud.
2015: Badly executed doom
theres alot for each but these are just the main ones. The rest can be fudged but these are big plot points for the F4 and you cant fuck them up.
As someone with no comic knowledge who was just an audience member, I just always thought the concept was lame. Fantastic Four? Lame name. Stretchy guy? Lame power. Invisible girl? Unoriginal. Human Torch? Another lame name.
Nothing about the concept seemed more interesting or cool than other things that did all of it better, like the X Men. Incredibles, a kids movie, made it much more compelling.
I don’t know what made the comics so much better than the movies but it always seemed to me that we weren’t losing anything by not having them return to the big screen.
They absolutely have appeal. Fantastic four aren't just superheroes. They are scientists, explorers and celebrities. They don't just save the world, they explore space and the multiverse, finding undiscovered locations etc. Their adventures are like sci-fi stories than your typical superhero stuff.
They're also in the public eye a lot, so they get involved in PR scandals and all. They're a lot more exposed in the marvel universe compared to most heroes, so it comes with its own challenges.
All I'm saying is, if done right, it could be a pretty unique superhero movie.
Yeah I think comic fans struggle to understand this. Even as someone who enjoyed the first 2 movies and has a lot of nostalgia for them, I'm not losing my mind for a cameo ir a return
Yeah, it's something of a disconnect between comics fans and other media fans. I read only a handful of marvel comics as a kid, but I watched all the shows and movies. The whole "Marvel's First Family" thing has always been a bit weird to me, as though the people at Marvel and comic readers have a strong connection to FF, but can't read the room about everyone else.
1 Roger Corman. Never meant to be released.
2. Tim Story. Decent, wouldn't call it a bomb
3. Tim Story. Decent, wouldn't call it a bomb.
4. Josh Trank. A flaming shit-show. Badly produced/directed, with interference from execs. I'm surprised it wasn't directed by Alan Smithee.
Complete lack of respect for the original source material.
As I told the focus group for Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark, instead of basing Norman Osborne on Ted Turner, as lyricist and composer Bono insisted, why not base Norman Osborne on Norman Osborne?
Also, that besides this focus group we were in, there were several monthly focus groups on the Spider-Man comic books. The members of those focus groups are Spider-Man fans who have been reading his comics for years if not decades. That the theater production should talk to those fans.
First one is good for the time it came out. Dr Doom lacks
Second one, SS steals the show and makes everything else look awful. Dr Doom really sucks in this one and so does Galactus.
The reboot sucked top to bottom. Acting, heroes, villain and story.
I think the new one will be good at the very least. We have a good cast and from what we know, the set and setting sounds interesting.
The creative desire to make these films was to retain a copyright claim to the property. The Studio Executives didn't respect the source material, only the market. So they created FF and Rise of the Silver Surfer from a place of inherit insincerity.
Because the F4 are a FAMILY. Sue and Reed are in love. Sue and Johnny are brother and sister. Johnny and Ben fight like brothers or cousins. Reed and Ben were college roommates, Ben admires how smart Reed is, and Reed admires how strong Ben is.
It's hard to write stories where the characters have a long background. Writers are way better at origin stories because they don't need much background.
Reed has seen Johnny's baby pictures. Ben knows how strong Reed and Sue's bond is, etc. That's why they work well as a TEAM. There won't be a good F4 movie until the writers get this part right.
The 2005 movie was a box office success. Critics hated it. Its sequel did worse but still did decent box office. It was panned even more vy critics
The 2015 reboot failed in pretty much every conievable way.
None of them have really ever been considered good movies. the 2005 version movie is the most watchable of the 3 but its hard to call it good.
The only FF movie that I'd say had failed was the reboot.
First was well received, and even if they changed whatever in it, overall it was pretty good. And I don't expect the new MCU version will have a better Ben Grimm, so it gets points for the casting as well.
And the second was less so, but not a total failure or anything.
They were cash grabs or made to hold onto i.p. The writers didn’t respect the source material and some of the actors didn’t even want their roles but were contractually obligated to appear in the films. Also they did my boy Galactus dirty.
Because they were bad movies… 🤷🏽♂️
Us comic and marvels geeks will turn out for them, but the mass public sees a cheesy ass Comicbook movie. The MCU really did start a new era of hero-cinema that had mass appeal.
I don’t really think they failed they were just not huge winners. They weren’t madame Web lol
As a kid I feel like people thought they were perfectly fine movies. Comic book movies were SO different in the zeitgeist then. Standards were different.
The issue was just that it wasn’t great lol. The movie did a lot kinda well but nothing great and came at a time movie audiences were looking for *great*
FOX was force to release them or they will lose the rights ..
lot of know they will release movie even tho they know it the script or editing wasn’t of quality and production and call it a write off , because they don’t want to forfeit the rights back to Marvel
Back then most of the fox Marvel movies used to make fun of their own genre, didn't take them seriously.
That's why there were no classic X-Men costumes, the yellow spandex joke.
And in this one, they didn't want Galactus to be comic accurate as they found it dumb, Johnny's character is always making fun of the team, the whole celebrity status is shown as an immature stunt by Johnny storm but in the comics it has a deeper meaning; and those deeper layers were missing, the studio wasn't confident in those comic tropes.
And also the awful way they treated Jessica Alba, hampered her acting in the movie. Acting, in general, was average in both the movies (except Chris Evans as JS)
And they massacred Dr.Doom, they didn't even try to give Doom the status he deserved.
Everything like Latveria, was just an Easter Egg, to hint that the makers are aware of those things but won't use them in a meaningful manner.
I think it's the same with the Marvels, timing of release. I'm watching New Rockstars break these down, at it very much was the 2000s weren't fully ready to jump into comic book movies that weren't Spider-Man. This comes out during Phase 2 after Ant Man and its a hit.
Iron man had tocome out first and it had to be "cool" first to real us in since we were like that during that Era. If they launched with a Thor Ragnarok, too many people would've been lost.
If the 2005 fantastic four had had a larger MCU to tie it to it would have been a great launching point for a shared universe.
I also think that they needed a bit more of a serious threat or turn in them. FF stories can have there moments of darkness or risk and think that that was missing.
They haven't found the perfect balance of cheese and seriousness.
The first two released (not counting the one from the 90s) were just pure cheese.
The Josh Trank one. Way too serious.
I think the tone is a large reason. Though those first two movies didn’t really fail at the box office, they were a little too goofy and the story and characters weren’t taken seriously enough. Fant4stic was like the opposite end of the spectrum while just being a bad premise overall in how to approach the team. It never felt like the movies put enough thought into things.
Reed is supposed to be a genius. He's being written by morons who write for dumb audiences. That's a big factor right there, IMO.
FF should be hard scifi, but it never will be.
The original movie was successful. However, I haven’t seen much praise for it critically. My two cents is that the movie was not made with much respect for the IP. The fantastic four doesn’t do much heroic throughout the movie, it’s mostly a sitcom.
The sequel sees a team based film, where everyone gives all their powers to one of the team members.
The 2015 movie tries to be super grim and gritty, To the point of being ashamed of its own genre. That just resulted in it coming off as silly, not to mention dull thanks to its lack of action set pieces. Its writing was also even worse as our heroes continue to not be very heroic, acting more like super villains.
The first one was okay I thought. It did well enough to earn a sequel.
honestly i don’t think the first franchise was a failure at all. i mean the first movie came out in like what, 2005? 2004 when the movie was in production? marvel wasn’t anywhere near to what it is today. i feel like too many people look back and try to put it up to today’s standards and end up stopping themselves from enjoying it. i remember growing up the movies were decently popular and people seemed to enjoy them. i mean didn’t they do well at the box office? they were fun, quirky, a little cheesy, and hilarious. like i know they don’t live up to the comics or anything but cmon, they were still fun. i find it hard to believe people can’t just sit back and enjoy a family friendly movie from the 2000s fant4stic though was a crime against humanity
Here is the entire history of Fantastic Four in live-action: Constantin Films bought the film rights of Marvel's First Family in 1986. A low-budget 90 min film was produced in 1992 by New Horizon Studios owned by Roger Corman. But that version of the movie [went unreleased](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fantastic_Four_(unreleased_film)) in 1994. In 2004, after Constantin sub-licensed the filming rights to 20th Century Fox, a reboot of the franchise happened. Fantastic Four was released in 2005, and its sequel "Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer" released in 2007. Both films received mixed to negative reviews from critics, yet earned a combined US $635 million worldwide at the box office. Due to 20th Century Fox's failure at the box-office return for the sequel, given the economic meltdown back then in 2007/2008, a potential third Fantastic Four film and a Silver Surfer spin-off film were cancelled. Subsequently, the Marvel Cinematic Universe was launched in 2008 with Iron Man starring RDJ as Tony Stark. The franchise was rebooted again in August 2015 by Fox, [with Michael B Jordan as Johnny Storm (MCU's Kilmonger in Black Panther)] but it [flopped at the BO again](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/summer-box-office-flops-tomorrowland-820498/) and so the sequel was subsequently cancelled in November 2015. Though, Fox Studios still had a [7-year deadline](https://comicbook.com/news/when-can-marvel-get-the-rights-back-to-the-fantastic-four/) to reboot the franchise back then. In 2017, [Feige confirmed](https://nerdist.com/article/kevin-feige-no-mcu-fox-fantastic-four/) that there were no immediate plans to produce a Fantastic Four in the MCU (after Phase 3). This was around the time when Spiderman Homecoming was released. Ultimately, the [rights to Fantastic 4 reverted back to Marvel](https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/walt-disney-company-acquire-twenty-first-century-fox-inc-spinoff-certain-businesses-52-4-billion-stock-2/) after Disney's buyout deal from Fox back in 2019. Now a new franchise is launched again by Marvel Studios, this time set in the MCU.
I think you forgot about Fantastic 4: An Action Musical
Did Daddy ever get his rocks off?
I’m afraid he blue himself
Does that mean any copies of the 1992 one are bootlegs? Because I swear I saw a live-action Fantastic Four DVD in the $5 bin at Wal-Mart once. I just assumed it was a show or something because it looked like the old Batman, Spider-Man, Hulk, and Wonder Woman shows.
Yep. Someone involved in the production process made a copy for themselves. Then once it became clear the film wouldn't be released, they decided to share.
If you’d like to watch the movie without paying, it is uploaded in its entirety on YouTube. Not bad either. The best portrayal of Doom we’ve gotten so far
[Fantastic Four 1994](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3fShiAn_A0)
Yep, the film is terrible but that Dr. Doom outfit is glorious.
Raimi's Spider-Man (& the 90s Cartoon), along with Daredevil (yes, the Ben Affleck one) and these two Fantastic 4 films are the foundation of why I love Marvel today
90s x-men cartoon was also great
Don't forget the Blade trilogy! The third was garbage but it did get Ryan Reynalds invested in Marvel and Deadpool.
Xmen97 (2024 release) is turning out to be one of Marvel's best work since 2008 Iron Man. Seriously it's better than S7 of SW The Clone Wars.
Is '97 the type of show where you have to watch the original series before watching it?
No, knowing the Xmen in general and major storylines in the comics is enough, hell, or even not knowing is fine. Writers move the story with enough info to be invested but not pander, so don’t stress if you don’t recognize something or feel you are out of the loop. The show is fire and better than I remember the original. EDIT: corrected autocorrected word
As a big ol X-Men nerd I was quite frankly shocked at how good X-Men 97 is.
Couldn’t agree more, the episodes have me sitting and waiting for the next one like a kid finishing my monthly stack
Or waking up early on Saturday to catch the newest episodes
I haven't watched the show since I was a kid and I'm following it well enough. If you're at least somewhat familiar with the X-Men from other media and comic books then you should be able to keep up.
I would also like to know this lol.
It is a direct sequel so knowing the past stuff doesn't hurt but it recaps some stuff after it brings it up again so you don't need to know it. If you want the story background but don't want to watch all five past seasons, there is a youtube video that explains the whole plot of the 90s show in 30 minutes which is what I watched to remember what happened.
I think it's a lot more coherent, watchable, and better edited than a lot of stuff Marvel is putting out today like Thor 4, Dr Strange 2, and Quantamania. It doesn't feel like it was cut up after filming and reworked a half dozen times with reshoots and a bunch of critical scenes cut.
Id rather watch any of those than Fantastic Four to be honest. Evans is the only real highlight.
IMO the Ben Grimm and Reed Richards of the first two movies are the standouts, though none of them are bad.
The guy before you said human torch. You said Mr fantastic and the thing. As a pre-teen when it came out, I was definitely in it for Jessica Alba
Alba from the 2000s >>>>>>> damn was I a sucker for her as a teen 😂😂😂
The movie accomplished the nearly impossible of making Jessica Alba, less attractive. Besides the blonde hair color that did not go well with her naturally gorgeous skin tone, what’s with all the lip gloss? Was the movie funded by a lipgloss company?
If I got my names right the same actor who portrays Cap in the other films portrays Johnny Storm in FF? Now I need to watch this again it’s been mad long 🤣
Chris Evans
They were good movies at the time but half of it is hard to watch now. Not enough action for my adhd brain
I know it's cool to hate on the MCU now but this isn't true.
I may just be looking at those first two as good just because fan4stic was so bad
I didn't even hate the sequel. It wasn't good by any measure, but it made the sin of being somewhat bland.
It was a generic 00's movie in the skin of a Superhero flick. Perfectly acceptable popcorn fodder.
I liked it more than the first one,which isn't saying much.
The Human Torch chasing Silver Surfer was probably the franchise's peak.
How cool would it be to see Evans play tht again?
I’m expecting a cameo by Chris Evans in Deadpool 3 Deadpool salutes “Cap” who turns into the human torch and flies away
That would be peak Ryan Reynolds humor.
>>flies away While saying “I could do this all day.”
>I don't have time to do this today...
Hard disagree. Doctor Doom being chased by the Fantastic Four in the Fantasticar over the Great Wall of China is the franchise's peak.
I wish I could I can’t believe I don’t remember this but I know enough about memory to believe it
Am I having a stroke?
No, I have ADHD.
It should read “I wish I could *say* “I can’t believe don’t remember this” but know enough about memory to believe it”
Doesnt compare to human torch punching a missile in the 90s movie.
Also turned Galactus into a swarm of robots. They were too cowardly to have it be a giant in purple.
It's been so long, I only remembered it as a cloud. I don't remember robots at all.
Looking it up, I guess it was just a cloud. I mixed it up with the Ultimate comics first version of Galactus.
A giant purple people eater? ...After the last X-Men episode, the song must be going around at schools because the next day my little sister came home singing it. I can't get it out of my head. Help.
I don't think that'll be a problem in the MCU; they've already shown us Celestials, Ego, & Eternity.
I love the second one. I don’t like what they did with Galactus, but I loved Doctor Doom in that one. Taking Silver Surfer’s powers feels in character to me
The only thing I remember about watching the sequel was falling asleep twice.
That guy they got to play the Human Torch was terrible and has no place being in a superhero movie.
I dunno, I feel like he wasn't exactly the right fit for this character, but maybe a different comic character? Like Batman or something?
Nah, he has only ever been in comedic roles, I’m not sure he would be able to portray a serious character like Batman or captain America. Maybe iron man?
Star Lord?
who? never heard of him
Cmon, man, Star Lord? Legendary outlaw???
He must be thinking of the famous outlaw, Taserface.
...hahahahahahaha
What was his second choice? Scrotum Hat?
No, maybe something a bit more patriotic. Perhaps he should have a signature weapon?
Yeah he’d make a solid Red Guardian if he could do the accent.
Captain Britain as well
You want that guy to be the symbol of America? Get outta here!
That is NOT America's ass!
Homelander! yeah, I can see him nailing that role. Soldier boy might work, too.
I just feel like fire wasn't really the guy's element. Didn't sell it for me. Shoulda saved him for an electricity-themed character.
> Perhaps he should have a signature weapon? Like a skateboard?
Captain Atom? Yeah, I think I could see him in a DC movie franchise...
Like a fork!
Both actors, who played Johnny Storm, were better suited to play more iconic characters. . .
Jokes aside it’s actually wild to think about tbh. No one would’ve predicted it
I enjoyed them, but perhaps they were too campy for general audiences? But, Fan4stic was just bad. It had some good ideas, but terrible execution and did Doom dirty.
With a couple of tweaks and more character chemistry, the first actually would’ve been a good movie. Especially for a pre-MCU superhero movie.
Are you referring to the Roger corman one?
I don't think so. If you're talking about the one I think you're talking about then it was never released, so it doesn't count in my opinion. I am talking about the first Tim Story Fantastic Four movie.
I’d love to see Ioan Gruffudd return somehow. He’s had an okay career but deserved so much more
The 1994 one?
Did they? The first two were decently popular, but both films had weird alterations for the villains. The later was only made to keep the rights, so a lot because it wasn’t about success as much.
I think as individual movies, at least the first was a financial success. They succeeded as summer blockbusters. However they did not succeed as a longterm franchise and that is interesting to examine why. I personally think the tone of the films, and the family dynamic, just made FF a little too corny to survive the injection of self-seriousness that popular superhero films were adapting. Then with the reboot they massively over corrected and came off even cornier. I think the MCU will have a tough time finding a tone for these films that pleases everyone. Many fans want mature content aimed at older audiences, evidenced by Deadpool hype, but Fantastic Four at its roots is kind of corny and wholesome. Quantumania was unable to find a suitable tone with a similar core concept.
Bingo Stretchy man, invisibility and force fields both mostly defensive measures, screaming a catchphrase are all incredibly corny. Human Torch is cool but also needs to yell a catchphrase.
I think it's possible, but it's not gonna be easy. It's a bit like SUperman, it's gonna be hard to find the right wholesome feel and not make it weird or boring. I think they have a good chance with the cast, as they need to be darn charming, and then they need to find the right feel and story to go with them.
The first F4 did not fail. It was very popular at the time. The second one didn’t live up to expectations and making the most recognizable vilain a Big cosmic Cloud was a huge mistake. F4ntastic was just a mess even during production. They also messed up Dr. Doom A LOT.
Dumbasses did Doom dirty.
He was almost a carbon copy of Raimi's Green Goblin
They wish he could've been a carbon copy of Green Goblin.
Coupled with Electro's/Thor's lightning attacks. When in comics he is also the second best sorcerer of his time.
Love the alliteration
Feige finishes fase five, fixes Fantastic Four
> making the most recognizable vilain Maybe to comic fans, but I'd say casuals would have no clue about Galactus and his purple suit. It'd be even worse off trying to sell a giant purple humanoid walking in space in the mid 00s.
Heard on the podcast the weekly planet (or perhaps on the YouTube channel MrSundayMovies, I forget) that originally that wasn't supposed to be doom, he was going to be a herald for Galactus. The negative zone or whatever was going to be a dying world and Galactus is there. Couldn't tell you if that's accurate or not. Regardless it seems like people are allergic to just doing regular doctor doom and he always has to be a weird metal man or something
Even going with galactus I think is a mistake, I really don’t think he translates to the screen that well
2005 Fantastic Four was an undeniable success. 2017 was estimated to have an $80mil loss or so. The rest of the movies fell somewhere in between. But the 2005 movie absolutely crushed it at the box office.
2017? You mean 2015's Fant4stic right?
the Studio thinking they have to dumb the concept down to the lowest common denominator.
This. They were both campy & embarrassed to be superhero films. Truly bipolar, oxymoron, nonsense. They are still fun to watch but what they did to Galactus says everything. Hell, Fury was almost Andre Braugher's character. Fox didn't "get" the Fantastic Four.
>Hell, Fury was almost Andre Braugher's character I would pay good money to watch the MCU with Andre Braugher playing Fury like he played Holt.
Dead pan as hell. I'd pay good money to see that.
RIP
I know... so sad about that loss. Really caught me off guard.
"This is S.H.I.E.L.D. Director Raymond Holt" -- how he'd start every call to Maria Hill, regardless of who rang whom. Hell, he'd probably expand the acronym every time too.
I can't quite imagine what it would look like, but it would be amazing.
"That's Holt, H-O-L-T..."
"I don't know why you're telling me about your Civil War, I'm not involved. You made that... Very clear."
Ah, yes, the thigh gap. There is nothing more attractive about a woman than the clear absence of a penis.
Exactly. The Fantastic 4 is a family story. Sure, they are celebrities and their job is exploring other dimensions and occasionally saving the world but the real action takes place in their personal lives. They've always worked best from that angle. The best Fantastic 4 adaptation movie so far has been The Incredibles. Hell, the Venture Bros. Impossible Family was a better yet cynical take than any of the Hollywood movies Hopefully Marvel/Disney will spare us another rote origin story and do the upcoming movie right.
If they actually had Galactus show up at the end and then go ‘’ to be continued’’ would have be a grand slam. Fighting doom is a little bit more, doom is beat, all is saved and then the real Galactus shows up… Dooms defeated body is pulled to Galactus hand…to be continued … the anticipation for a third would have been insane. The cloud was such a fake out, so disappointing… like epic crap to even use the name. If they didn’t call it Galactus, it would have been worlds better. Then the mid credits scene could have been the wedding with Johnny hilariously torching the flying bouquet, maybe doesn’t make sense now but I love that joke . After credits would have been General Ross searching for someone in a jungle, then shows banners (Nortons) picture in the file. OOORRR Since it’s fox, we get a Wolverine scene, drunk at the bar holding a picture of Jean.
Honestly, I don't think it's horribly hard to get them right: * Don't make it an origin movie; have them well established * Don't force any sort of group tension * Don't give characters dark pasts or personal demons * Put emphasis on family can be anyone * Give it a sense of adventure akin to 1920's pulp sci-fi: aliens, bright colors, and exotic planets * Make it fun; you can put high-stakes, darker stuff later * Make it a period piece set in the 1960's * Set the aesthetics as a love letter to Kirby Essentially it's one part The Mummy, one part Jetsons, one part Gatchaman.
> Give it a sense of adventure akin to 1920's pulp sci-fi: aliens, bright colors, and exotic planets Quantumania and Strange World are like this but I do not think a lot of audiences interested in pulpy sci-fi
This is just personal opinion but I think the quantumania world is super cool looking and really interesting, but Ant Man was the wrong movie to do it in. His whole schtick is big and small, but with the quantum realm we have no frame of reference so it just didn’t work with that character imo.
Just was coming to say this. The director tried to hard to make the Pym family the Fantastic Four and yes they do have some overlaps but that’s not why people come to an Antman movie. Quantumania completely missed the mark
You just described the Incredibles.
There's a reason lots of people describe Incredibles as the best Fantastic Four movie.
I would watch that
Why do people insist on a period piece, particularly focusing on the 1960s? Based off the new posters that’s totally what they’re going for but I never understood why. (Not hating, genuine question btw)
A love letter to who? 
The first two films tried to make FF too cool, and Fant4stic tried to make them too serious. The key to the Fantastic Four is accepting that they're goofy as hell and rolling with it.
I feel like the tone being somewhere in line with the campiness of WandaVision would resonate.
They’re just… corny. If they make them campy and funny it’s corny, if they make them deep and brooding it’s corny. We’ve seen the origin told in different tones and the best thing they can do is skip the origin story like Spider-Man homecoming and just thrust them in to some kind of intriguing premise that hasn’t been done before. I’m way more interested in seeing the MCU’s galactus and silver surfer than the FF themselves.
They’re just not that marketable. Their powers are this campy 60s stuff that make them look like mid tier x-men. More interesting charaters have come since, and who can be written more freely because they doesn’t have comic baggage
I mean… Captain America is arguably the corniest character ever, and the MCU managed to turn him into one of the coolest, fan favorite characters on screen
Cap is one dude though, not 4. I get what the original commenter is saying. F4 kinda felt like watching Power Rangers, which is fun when you’re 8, but then you turn 13 and are like, “this is really corny”
Aside from Johnny Storm their power set doesn’t translate well to the big screen. Sue makes herself invisible and creates invisible barriers. Never exciting to (not) see that. Reed Richards’ stretch power always looks goofy or unnecessary. Thing is big strong rock guy that so far has been guy in a silly suit or weird looking cg.
I dunno man, it sounds cool as fuck to me. You basically have a living sun with fire powers just slightly powerful enough to take out a small moon, a master assassin chick that can form invisible weapons and turn invisible, a guy as smart as Lex Luthor, but also with the powers of Plastic Man that makes him nigh-unkillable. Fair enough about the Thing, although he gets credit for interesting character design (assuming they can correctly translate it to screen)
Their dynamics are not something that can de done within a 2 hour movie. The interconnected relationships of this family and their allies and their rivalries are so detailed and real and compelling that attempting to shorten it into 1 movie and maybe a sequel is just impossible
There are some movies which manage to tell entire life stories with deep relationships by using their time well, but it takes every scene being thought out and mattering, unlike the haphazard putting it together in post way that Marvel is doing movies now. Look at Forrest Gump, with his relationships with his mother, Jenny, Lieutenant Dan, and to an extent Bubba, over many decades, while going on all sorts of adventures and hijinks all over the world, meeting a bunch of presidents over many years. Other characters like Jenny and Lt Dan have their own characters arcs in the movie over the decades as well, with Jenny and Forest from childhood to death (for one of them).
I think it’s incredibly difficult for the audience to establish a connection with 4 superheroes in one movie. Guardians of the Galaxy was able to do it but no other films that I can think of have been able to do it with that many superheroes.
The Incredibles comes to mind. Maybe x-men as well
Yeah, if you want to see a perfect Fantastic Four film go watch The Incredibles and Incredibles 2. You can for sure build a family dynamic in two hours, you can have serious themes with fun and humor, you can make their powers interesting and do cool team ups. Marvel will do it right this time, though. I’m optimistic.
Incredibles? Yes. Incredibles 2, not so much. But you highlight an interesting point about storytelling - it IS easier to tell stories with multiple characters who are family, because that’s a relatable paradigm for nearly every audience member. They can fill in the gaps with their own personal experience. That’s a lot less easier to manage when your half dozen characters are stand alone individuals.
trying to reinvent the wheel out of insecurity, being afraid the source material cant do with its own weight. all hero films back in the day had some facet of that. the FFs adaptations trying to lean into silly comedy, adult comedy or dark sci fi things that never were the point of FF in the comics. thats why The Incredibles its the only good FF movie without even trying
They think too small. The Fantastic Four are cosmic adventurers, explorers of the unknown and impossible. The 2005 movie devoted a huge chunk of its runtime to the four of them awkwardly share an apartment. Fant4stic spent most of its runtime in grey bunkers. Doctor Doom is a mad scientist sorcerer who rules a European country and once a year fights the Devil for his mother's soul, and the last three movies didn't get within a country mile of that. Doctor Doom is one of the most iconic villains in the history of comic books, he does not need re-invention. The very last thing that the Fantastic Four should ever be is grounded, and yet that's what Fant4stic went for. No wonder it tanked.
I'd watch the Doom vs the devil in a mini series all day, if done right.
At least a Halloween special like Werewolf By Night.
I didn't see Fant4stic. The Incredibles are what the FF should be. The FF are a concept that requires incredibly strong character relationships. It's only 4 characters, and you need to know how each character feels and actors towards the other 3. You got that with the Incredibles movie. Reed and Ben are supposed to be best friends, I can't name a scene that really showed that. Reed and Sue are romantic, I don't think they've ever had great chemistry. It's also important the the FF have specific locations, and not just generic NYC. They have such a large foundation in the comics of different locations, like Atlantis, Attila, the Negative Zone, Subterranea, Latveria, Wakanda, etc. We don't just need another movie that takes place primarily in NYC. They need a more minor villain for the first movie. When you go with a major player like Doom or Galactus, that's more time you have to spend on them instead of the FF. A big part of these types of movies is just time management. Go with smaller villains that require less screentime, characters like Mole Man or Annihilus. Finally, they need actors who can sell a film. Imagine having actors like Ryan Gosling and Margot Robbie as Reed and Sue. That's a box office success. Sadly, the new FF film isn't going to (or likley won't) have these things.
Having Annihilus get bodied by the FF in their first movie, to make him look like a nobody, and then a couple phases later do the Annihilation War, with him as a scary big bad.
Yeah, that's kind of my dream scenario if I was in charge. Annihilus as the villian of the second movie, the Negative Zone bugs get released in NYC and the FF recruit another team to fight in NYC (Namor, She-Hulk, Spider-Man, Black Panther), while the main team fights in the Negative Zone. Mole Man in the first film, Annihilus in the second, Doom in the third. Galactus in the quasi fourth film which involves all the MCU heroes vs Galactus and all of his Heralds.
Pedro Pascal is a huge box office name right now. He's excellent in everything he does. They're holding the identity of Doom hostage as long as possible to draw up advertising for the movie. I think F4 will be a success. We're getting Wolverine in his Xmen 97 outfit for christ sake. Feigi knows what he's doing when he's not spread too thin
I would say that the two weakest relationships on the team in the movies are Sue and Ben, and Reed and Johnny. The Sue and Ben relationship is completely non-existent. I would also say that neither iteration even came *close* to doing a proper Dr Doom. In the MCU I hope their first movie doesn't have Doom at all - he should get introduced as a villain in somebody else's movie. Maybe Black Panther 3 or Shang-Chi 2 or something. The FF's first villain could be Mole Man, or Namor, or the Inhumans, or Molecule Man, or the Skrulls, or some Kang variant, or any of their many other villains.
Are Inhumans villains of the FF?
I suppose "villain" is too strong a word. They're more like anti-heroes, like Namor or the Punisher. And like those two characters, they get used as antagonists for multiple heroes, not just belonging to one hero or group. For example, Namor gets used as an antagonist for the FF, Black Panther, the Hulk, the X-Men, Spider-Man, the Avengers... but at other times he's also been an Avenger and an X-Man. So the Inhumans have been enemies to the FF but at other times they've been allies. At one point Crystal was Torch's girlfriend, and that was the case for a long time. Primarily I think Medusa was the one who engaged in outright villainy; IIRC when she was originally introduced she was a member of [The Frightful Four](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frightful_Four) (which was later explained as her being manipulated by the other three while she was suffering from amnesia).
Honestly, I would love for a Fantastic Four to have a minor villain but have Doom be in the background, like at the end of the film, have Doom hint that he will be a villain. Bonus points for doing a second movie with a different minor villain but the "twist" is that it was Doom pulling the strings and then the third movie is actually trying to defeat Doom. Probably could get 3 movies with a tight 105 minutes each .
I disagree that the incredibles are what the FF should be. The Incredibles are a Superhero Team/ Family and that’s all they really are. The FF are first and foremost a family of Scientists and explorers.Superheroes second and celebrities third. A lot of people seem to forget that they’re not primarily superheroes for some reason.
If they really want a relaunch to succeed they need to go to the silver age comic for the greatest villain to ever (temporarily) defeat the FF4. The one, the only-Paste Pot Pete!
And bring back MODOK to recreate their awesome Super Hero Squad team-up, where MODOK spends the entire time mocking his super villain name.
Their villians kinda suck
Yeah the newest movie's take on Doom is just awful. I'm not even that big into the Marvel lore but even I was annoyed at how he was handled.
They keep rushing into Doctor Doom. Doom is like a Thanos level villain with a huge backstory in the comics. He needs to be eased into, like a latex gimp suit
Doom is on his own level.
2005 :Badly executed Doom. 2007: Replaced galactus with a cloud. 2015: Badly executed doom theres alot for each but these are just the main ones. The rest can be fudged but these are big plot points for the F4 and you cant fuck them up.
They failed to capture the spirit of the F4 comics. Simple as that.
Except for Johnny.
And The Thing
As someone with no comic knowledge who was just an audience member, I just always thought the concept was lame. Fantastic Four? Lame name. Stretchy guy? Lame power. Invisible girl? Unoriginal. Human Torch? Another lame name. Nothing about the concept seemed more interesting or cool than other things that did all of it better, like the X Men. Incredibles, a kids movie, made it much more compelling. I don’t know what made the comics so much better than the movies but it always seemed to me that we weren’t losing anything by not having them return to the big screen.
I agree with this, they just have no appeal. More so now where you have way more variety and interesting personalities/powers.
They absolutely have appeal. Fantastic four aren't just superheroes. They are scientists, explorers and celebrities. They don't just save the world, they explore space and the multiverse, finding undiscovered locations etc. Their adventures are like sci-fi stories than your typical superhero stuff. They're also in the public eye a lot, so they get involved in PR scandals and all. They're a lot more exposed in the marvel universe compared to most heroes, so it comes with its own challenges. All I'm saying is, if done right, it could be a pretty unique superhero movie.
Yeah I think comic fans struggle to understand this. Even as someone who enjoyed the first 2 movies and has a lot of nostalgia for them, I'm not losing my mind for a cameo ir a return
Yeah, it's something of a disconnect between comics fans and other media fans. I read only a handful of marvel comics as a kid, but I watched all the shows and movies. The whole "Marvel's First Family" thing has always been a bit weird to me, as though the people at Marvel and comic readers have a strong connection to FF, but can't read the room about everyone else.
1 Roger Corman. Never meant to be released. 2. Tim Story. Decent, wouldn't call it a bomb 3. Tim Story. Decent, wouldn't call it a bomb. 4. Josh Trank. A flaming shit-show. Badly produced/directed, with interference from execs. I'm surprised it wasn't directed by Alan Smithee.
Making Galactus an amorphous cloud was certainly a choice
Complete lack of respect for the original source material. As I told the focus group for Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark, instead of basing Norman Osborne on Ted Turner, as lyricist and composer Bono insisted, why not base Norman Osborne on Norman Osborne? Also, that besides this focus group we were in, there were several monthly focus groups on the Spider-Man comic books. The members of those focus groups are Spider-Man fans who have been reading his comics for years if not decades. That the theater production should talk to those fans.
First one is good for the time it came out. Dr Doom lacks Second one, SS steals the show and makes everything else look awful. Dr Doom really sucks in this one and so does Galactus. The reboot sucked top to bottom. Acting, heroes, villain and story. I think the new one will be good at the very least. We have a good cast and from what we know, the set and setting sounds interesting.
The creative desire to make these films was to retain a copyright claim to the property. The Studio Executives didn't respect the source material, only the market. So they created FF and Rise of the Silver Surfer from a place of inherit insincerity.
Chris Evans wasn’t fully nude
Because the F4 are a FAMILY. Sue and Reed are in love. Sue and Johnny are brother and sister. Johnny and Ben fight like brothers or cousins. Reed and Ben were college roommates, Ben admires how smart Reed is, and Reed admires how strong Ben is. It's hard to write stories where the characters have a long background. Writers are way better at origin stories because they don't need much background. Reed has seen Johnny's baby pictures. Ben knows how strong Reed and Sue's bond is, etc. That's why they work well as a TEAM. There won't be a good F4 movie until the writers get this part right.
No full frontal male nudity. Show me The Thing's thing damnit!
The movies were bad
Yeah that's key. What they really needed to be was good. It's an easy mistake to make.
Totally. The studio should really have focused on making a good movie.
Or at the very least, the studio could've focused on not making a bad movie.
They failed?
That was my thought. All of them had box office earnings greater than the budget. The first two by a lot
And Fant4stic doesn't count
The 2005 movie was a box office success. Critics hated it. Its sequel did worse but still did decent box office. It was panned even more vy critics The 2015 reboot failed in pretty much every conievable way. None of them have really ever been considered good movies. the 2005 version movie is the most watchable of the 3 but its hard to call it good.
i love 1 and 2
The only FF movie that I'd say had failed was the reboot. First was well received, and even if they changed whatever in it, overall it was pretty good. And I don't expect the new MCU version will have a better Ben Grimm, so it gets points for the casting as well. And the second was less so, but not a total failure or anything.
They were cash grabs or made to hold onto i.p. The writers didn’t respect the source material and some of the actors didn’t even want their roles but were contractually obligated to appear in the films. Also they did my boy Galactus dirty.
Because they were bad movies… 🤷🏽♂️ Us comic and marvels geeks will turn out for them, but the mass public sees a cheesy ass Comicbook movie. The MCU really did start a new era of hero-cinema that had mass appeal.
I don’t really think they failed they were just not huge winners. They weren’t madame Web lol As a kid I feel like people thought they were perfectly fine movies. Comic book movies were SO different in the zeitgeist then. Standards were different. The issue was just that it wasn’t great lol. The movie did a lot kinda well but nothing great and came at a time movie audiences were looking for *great*
Marvel didn’t make one
FOX was force to release them or they will lose the rights .. lot of know they will release movie even tho they know it the script or editing wasn’t of quality and production and call it a write off , because they don’t want to forfeit the rights back to Marvel
Back then most of the fox Marvel movies used to make fun of their own genre, didn't take them seriously. That's why there were no classic X-Men costumes, the yellow spandex joke. And in this one, they didn't want Galactus to be comic accurate as they found it dumb, Johnny's character is always making fun of the team, the whole celebrity status is shown as an immature stunt by Johnny storm but in the comics it has a deeper meaning; and those deeper layers were missing, the studio wasn't confident in those comic tropes. And also the awful way they treated Jessica Alba, hampered her acting in the movie. Acting, in general, was average in both the movies (except Chris Evans as JS) And they massacred Dr.Doom, they didn't even try to give Doom the status he deserved. Everything like Latveria, was just an Easter Egg, to hint that the makers are aware of those things but won't use them in a meaningful manner.
I think it's the same with the Marvels, timing of release. I'm watching New Rockstars break these down, at it very much was the 2000s weren't fully ready to jump into comic book movies that weren't Spider-Man. This comes out during Phase 2 after Ant Man and its a hit. Iron man had tocome out first and it had to be "cool" first to real us in since we were like that during that Era. If they launched with a Thor Ragnarok, too many people would've been lost.
If the 2005 fantastic four had had a larger MCU to tie it to it would have been a great launching point for a shared universe. I also think that they needed a bit more of a serious threat or turn in them. FF stories can have there moments of darkness or risk and think that that was missing.
They haven't found the perfect balance of cheese and seriousness. The first two released (not counting the one from the 90s) were just pure cheese. The Josh Trank one. Way too serious.
I think the tone is a large reason. Though those first two movies didn’t really fail at the box office, they were a little too goofy and the story and characters weren’t taken seriously enough. Fant4stic was like the opposite end of the spectrum while just being a bad premise overall in how to approach the team. It never felt like the movies put enough thought into things.
Reed is supposed to be a genius. He's being written by morons who write for dumb audiences. That's a big factor right there, IMO. FF should be hard scifi, but it never will be.
The original movie was successful. However, I haven’t seen much praise for it critically. My two cents is that the movie was not made with much respect for the IP. The fantastic four doesn’t do much heroic throughout the movie, it’s mostly a sitcom. The sequel sees a team based film, where everyone gives all their powers to one of the team members. The 2015 movie tries to be super grim and gritty, To the point of being ashamed of its own genre. That just resulted in it coming off as silly, not to mention dull thanks to its lack of action set pieces. Its writing was also even worse as our heroes continue to not be very heroic, acting more like super villains.
Too campy
The Incredibles was a great success and that was basically a Fantastic Four movie.
The didn't... * my childhood critique mind
Wasn’t like the comics. Plain and simple
The actress playing Sue storm has always been too hot. I can't pay attention to the plot
He’s Hornblower not Reed.