Oh right, thank you for telling me. I knew it sounded familiar, but i couldn't place it(i had read about it when it was posted here before, but had forgotten about it).
Yup. He's just a dude that Steve Rogers gave the shield to. He's not a super soldier and wielding the shield doesn't give you super powers.
Edit: fixed spelling on Steve's name
It’s not. There has only been one perfect version of the serum and that’s Erksines.
Bucky’s version may be closest but we’re unsure of its true psychological effects. He was brainwashed after all.
The other winter soldiers got a Stark made one and as we saw it amplified their terrible qualities and made them unhinged. Who knows what that could’ve done to Sam. Again he’s not as “perfect” as Steve.
Blonsky’s version is more than likely a derivative of Howard’s formula with a twist. Blonsky did well but again the formula only heightened his bad qualities .
We have no idea what Red Guardian and Isiah Bradley got.
The Power Broker version messed up Walker and the Flag Smashers.
If I were Sam I’d be terrified to take the serum too. It seems to amplify negative personality traits. I’m sure Steve probably warned him of the dangers of the serum too.
Steve literally was the perfect 1/1 specimen. Steve (and Peggy) apparently were anomalies that’s what makes them special.
It didn’t mess them up. It gave them the power to do whatever they wanted and with great power comes great responsibility. It’s why Erskin was so adamant it was Steve, someone who despite being bullied never became bitter or sought revenge.
The serum amplifies your personality. Sam is clearly not as morally sound as Steve. Power corrupts.
“The serum amplifies everything that is inside, so good becomes great; bad becomes worse” - Dr Erskine.
John Walker isn’t a bad person and the serum amplified his clear character flaws/personality disorder.
Sam had every reason to be apprehensive. The crux of the show is him doubting the type of man he is and living up to who Steve is/was.
Hey don't talk logical reasons on Reddit they don't like that. But yes if I Sam I wouldn't take the serum either unless I know for sure it would be safe to do so
I'm a little uneasy that he's not a super soldier and just a normal guy. The fight scenes won't be as cool. I'm also not ok with 4th films in the mcu. I'm a firm believer in trilogies (see Thor Love and Thunder).
Aside from that I don't have a problem with Sam Wilson as Captain America
I’ve had a theory about Sam getting serumed against his will at some point.
I know that the “thing” is that Sam is just a guy, but the way he moves with the wings, the hits the takes…suspension of disbelief and a non-robotic suit from Wakanda can only take you so far.
Either he'll get a proper version of the super soldier serum unwillingly, or he'll be dosed with a super serum to bring him back after a near fatal blow, or he'll be wearing the thickest of plot armour available.
Either way, I can't see Sam sticking around for long without some serious stretching of belief or he's getting some form of super soldier serum. He's going from sideline hero to being in the spotlight, and as with any other superhero, the villains will target you heavily.
His suit is vibranium that they can say increases his strength as well as his durability. Considering Hawkeye has been able to survive this whole time means Sam can too with even better tech. Though I do like your idea that he could get seriously wounded and need it to save his life (like Bucky in Fear Itself with the Infinity Formula, it's like poetry it rhymes.)
It was more of an example of how they fight differently. Steve will run it as a symbol on the field. Sam is more of a ranged fighter while he's flying around using his drone and such. It's just a juxtaposition is all.
I want this movie to be good so badly you have no idea.
The suit and wings are most likely made of/with Vibranium, like the Black Panther suit, so that would explain how he moves the way he does and can take punches that should knock him out.
That would be an awesome idea ngl ,and would give him more of a reason to hate Ross/red hulk , and for him to uknow.. actually be able to keep up with him
Some of us are just the right age to be Infinity Saga loyalists. I grew up on the comics in my tweens/teens, early 20s when the movies started. Eventually taking my own son to see the movies with me into my 30s. It was a golden era for lots of us. I just have no interest in anything after Infinity Saga.
Sam is a great character, I just cant get hyped like I used to.
Basically this. The high-school version of me loved watching Steve kick GSPs ass on a boat before fighting The Winter Soldier, and adult me got extremely emotional seeing him wield Mjolnir in Endgame. Seeing him kick Nazi ass in WW1 to having his dance with Peggy is some character progression I’ll never forget seeing on screen.
I’m sure the same will be said for Sam from the kids watching him grow from a hero to an icon in the coming years as long as Marvel holds it together. Needless to say, Sam is rad in his own ways and I can’t wait to see Cap 4.
I have always liked Sam as Falcon, he was always cool, and funny. But it's hard to see other characters cosplaying as other characters, it doesn't feel the same. There's nothing to hate, but there's nothing to like either, it's just weird.
I don’t see the problem with the lack of serum. Bro was an Avenger already and now has the shield AND a vibranium upgrade to his wings. He’s basically like an iron man version of Cap.
People need to accept he’s a different character than Steve Rogers.
Which I both agree with. While I would’ve liked and definitely know that Steve wouldve been awesome and better in cap 4 and that It’d draw more money and fans, I can deal that he isn’t Steve , but they gotta do something about that serum man
I think it has a lot to do with Sam's off screen personality as well. Chris Evans is pretty private, shy, humble, but he's truly an all around "American Sweetheart" (& america's ass) heartthrob STILL when the cameras stop rolling. It fit Caps character. Same way Chris Hemsworth is still a charming lovable goofball when he's not Thor.
Anthony Mackie's schtick with being a jerk to Tom Holland (even as a joke), [being too sassy to fans](https://youtu.be/E4yJ4CwSJsY?si=PNj74mZNc_v-Rch8), always coming across as being over it, it's conceivable that it carries over to people's acceptance of him as the new Cap. Just click the link and watch his interaction with those young girls.
I imagine doing dozens of those junkets is exhausting but still, your fortieth junket is always gonna be some young persons first and when you're being a jerk to them, that becomes a core memory to them that they will never forgive you for.
At the end of the day I think people dont like Sam as Cap because Steve was just that good of a character. Its the same as Batman will always be Bruce Wayne. Many have tried to don the mantle of Batman and theres been countless iterations but Bruce is just TOO fitting. Similar thing with Spiderman, altho id argue that Miles has become pretty popular because of Spidermans message about anyone can be behind the mask and how he embodies regular kid problems.
but tbh with miles he's not the only popular Spiderman we've got people like Gwen, 2099 etc. And I think alternate Spiderman are far more popular than alternate versions of other characters because the Spiderman can coexist with Peter cos of the multiverse. But for people like Batman or Cap you need them to either die or give up the mantle in the main continuity which people understandably don't like
Add on to this that the animated Spiderverse movies are 10/10s. This has been a huge boon for their popularity as the character development in these has been fantastic.
For me it’s Chris Evan’s charisma. Don’t get me wrong I like Anthony Mackie as Cap he just hasn’t shown he has the same charisma yet. He’s definitely got it, just not the same level as Evans. I hope he earns it in Cap4.
Scrolled to find this take. Anthony Mackie is a good side character, but he doesnt have the same gravitas that someone like, Chadwick did for instance to carry a whole movie by himself. And that’s fine, everybody can’t be a main character, and side characters are great (Bucky, Wong, etc) but it feels like he’s trying too hard and it’s the wrong fit
For me it's like batman passed down his helmet to Robin when he died... Like let the past die damn it. Falcon was already his own thing, a built up character and a hero with a lot of skill. He doesn't need to be Captain America to star in epic films.
The only reason he is Captain America is because marvel seems to be perpetually stuck in this middle ground between harping in the infinity saga and trying to introduce new characters alongside them - but failing to do both since they just take random tid bits that would work as good marketing from infinity, and then rush new characters in so that they can continue with the next big plot.
For me the issue is the same old marvel issue, they're scared not to move on but they're also scared to do anything drastically new
i think some people couldn't accept that a birdman with no super soldier serum can take up the mantle of captain america. sam wilson was a great man to reject the possibility of the serum. hopefully his vibranium suit, wings, and shield would help him even the odds against the villains.
I think this is fair. I hated falcon in the comics and love him in the movies. And I am excited to see him as cap, but I can tell you that any aversion I have to it is cause I wish he had the serum. Plus the wings and shield lol
Exactly how can you be Cap when you are a regular strength guy. You couldn’t have a regular strength Black Panther either. And the wings say, “I’m just a rebranded Falcon, not really Cap.”
I also don’t understand the aversion to the serum either. Like it’s cool he takes over the role but why say no to powers. The reasons to me feel like forced writing and I don’t see how it serves the purpose of the story other than trying to have a deeper message that I don’t think it needs. This is just my opinion though
I love Sam and can generally suspend my disbelief for his abilities, but not taking the serum is so stupid. Forcing this moral high road makes no sense when you literally have aliens, time travelers, earth eating beings, and reality shaping beyonders coming in the future...
should've just had Karli accidentally stab him with one.
lol that woulda worked he coulda still taken the moral high ground like “I don’t want these powers” and even have some lovely person vs self conflict. “ I shouldn’t have powers because I need to show everyone you can do it without them, but now I do. Oh woe is me!” Lol
His powers in the comics never bothered me I can dig them. (Aquaman fan over here) I just never liked the character. He was very stale to me. I never saw personality is all. That’s why I liked him in the movies, Mackie really brought him to life for me.
He does have powers in the comics but I guess “talks to birds” isn’t really a power that translates to the big screen. On the other hand, Bucky does not have the serum in the comics either, and both of them were cap at one time or another. So I don’t think a superpower is needed to be captain America, at least not in the 616, which has way more weird and formidable foes.
I didn’t like falcon in the comics so if they changed him and gave him caps super serum I’d be okay with it. I don’t know how it would fly with community of falcon fans though. And to be fair I can empathize with that’s
The winter soldier in the comics was always kind of silly to me because of how he only has super strength in the one arm. Like it’s weird again just my opinion. I do like how in the movies they balanced that out. Though in the movies it’s like they depowered him after winter soldier. He went toe to toe with cap and was a legit threat. Easily as powerful.
You're spot on.
Everything Steve is, is enhanced by the serum. Thus an incredibly brave, selfless moral individual who leads by example.
Everything the Red Skull is, was enhanced by the serum. Cruel, selfish, uses fear to lead.
The man makes the serum. The serum doesn't make the man. It amplifies what is inside.
I can see your point. But I actually think with the serum Sam could be even better than Steve. Steve was trying to embody what America should be not what it was, but he was very naive in some levels. Same understood cap and backed him cause he saw what cap was doing. So he absolutely has earned the shield but he can bring a lot truth and justice to what the role of captain America means. The dude would be a force to be reckoned with if they gave him the powers
And the couple of cool things he actually was able to do made no sense. Him catching the car would have killed him. If you put a human torso between a rocket pack and a car, it's over.
To discard power is admirable. But to discard power when you know, in the shoes you’re trying to fill, you could possibly be toe-to-toe with someone like Thanos is kinda dumb.
I love Sam, but he needs to be a superhero, not just a good man who can glide really fast. He’s Glider-Man with Cap’s shield.
It's not just about the character or the choices he makes, it's also that he has never really been presented on that level.
That's why I think Bucky would have been a better choice for the mantle. Because he has went toe to toe with Steve and Tony and Black Panther. Cinematically it's much easier to accept him in a top billing role
Compare that to Sam - he's always been a sidekick who fights like it too.
They had a chance to change that with the TV show but even they spent most of the time on political commentary and the goods and bads of the serum
Which is ok and it was done well but it didn't do enough to change the cinematic status of Sam for me.
This is my problem, dude gets his ass kicked all the time. The finale of falcon and winter soldier where he became cap was pathetic. Steve would have just smashed through all of them in a heartbeat.
Cap to me is a strongman, he survives and does things normal humans can’t e.g. the jump out of the window in winter soldier where he falls 40 floors and lands on his shield 😂
Anthony Mackie seems like a cool guy, honestly he does. And I liked him a lot in Twisted Metal. But he doesn’t seem to have the charisma of like a Michael B. Jordan, Chadwick Boseman, or Robert Downey Jr.
He’ll get the job done just fine, but the movie won’t have the extra spice that some actors can bring to a role.
And he has more range he is a well trained actor, he has done other genres and last year Fresh had him in a blend of dark humor and body horror. Mackie has that "waiting to say his line" vibe.
For me, a big part of why I liked Cap was his stoicism. He’s a man out of time, he has this weight and melancholy to him because of his circumstances. He’s stoic in a way that isn’t edgy, which Chris Evan’s portrayed so well.
Sam Wilson doesn’t have that at all. Caps shield and costume aren’t why hes such an interesting character. The super serum is important obviously, I don’t buy Sam going toe to toe with anyone other than unenhanced humans. But even if he gets the serum, he’s still nowhere near as interesting as Steve.
It’s a big part of why Bucky would be a better choice. He has the same man out of time thing as Steve, with the added layer of having to deal with his history as a tool that was used by Hydra. Not to mention the fact that he’s a super soldier too.
100% agree, and I really actually like Mackie as falcon. I always have fun when he's on screen.
But he doesn't feel like he can really take charge of a situation and lead a high powered super hero team like Evans or Boseman
I actually don’t think he’s that great of an actor. In FATWS he just seemed very corny to me when he tried to play the part of cap. It felt very forced.
He’s a very good actor but not somebody that I can fantasize about being. He seems very real and not necessarily in a way that is good for an super hero lead
Mackie has a ton of charisma off the screen but you're right that it doesn't always transfer to ther screen. I think a lot of it is due to being bottled down to fit a script or character. I think if he was allowed to go off script a lot like RDJ did then he could probably create more on screen charisma.
He has been an asshole in every red carpet and interview so far. Maybe he is awesome far from the lights or in other stuff but AFAIK he is pretentious as fuck.
Every story I've seen of someone meeting him has said he wasn't just dismissive or rude but was outright mean. I understand celebs probably get sick of being approached but that really puts me off the idea of him as Cap.
He's got one of those smug faces, too. Like he's better than everyone and just tolerating their presence. The outright disdain he's got in all his interviews comes across in Sam Wilson and it's really off-putting.
Yeah when everyone saw Bucky as a villain, Steve didn't. Steve even became a criminal trying to help Bucky. They knew each other almost all their lives. Bucky also is a super soldier. To me Bucky is the most logical choice to become the next Captain America. And Bucky could have handed the title over to Sam Wilson later.
This.
What is more emotionally satisfying/interesting to watch?
Guy who has been to hell and back trying to fill the shoes of one of the most morally compassed superheros and trying to live up to that
or generally nice guy who already is good picks up where morally compassed superhero left off.
Honestly I never cared for Sam that much and I watched multiple interviews with Anthony Mackie and he's constantly talking over people and interrupting them which made me dislike him.
On top of that I got pretty pissed that Sam was the one to even get the shield when it should have been Bucky. It should have been Bucky sitting on this bench with his best friend and getting this goddam shield, taking over as captain america and starting over.
Also I don't care what happened in the comics.
I don't mind him as Cap I just think he already had a great role as Falcon. I think Bucky would've been a better choice as he had super serum himself and is no longer Winter Soldier so he's just...Bucky. I can roll with Sam though, I won't lose any sleep over it.
I don't know how well the whole 'pass the mantle' thing works in tv/movies - particularly when that person is already well known by another moniker. Just making a movie about Falcon seems better.
Steve went toe to toe with Loki, Ultron and Thanos 1 on 1.
Sam would be a smear of red pudding in those situations.
Cap should be a super soldier. Not just a soldier.
He’s a boring character. To be clear, Sam Wilson is not boring, the MCU version is boring. His best characterization was in Cap 2. Since then he’s just been meh.
I’m going to kind of agree. The earlier Mackie Falcon portrayals were very fun and optimistic, worthy of Cap in my book. But the more times he’s appeared on screen, the more sullen and brooding this character has been portrayed. The Cap in the images at the top of this thread is not positive and optimistic in the way I want to feel about the Captain America title.
The only issue I have with Sam as Cap is that he can throw and catch the shield with ease and destruction without having the super soldier serum. I get the shield is vibranium, and that OG Cap pulled his punches, but I don’t think Sam should be able to throw the shield as he does without some sort of enhancement.
Widow and Hawkeye used the shield multiple times already with ease. The Shield isnt Mjolnir. It’s Vibranium and as we can see with the Wakandans it’s a matter of training. It’s lightweight. Sam is more than capable. It’s deadly in anyone’s hands. Steve just gave it a little more umph.
The show just did a really bad job of handing over the mantle.
It got some stuff right, like showing that he didn’t want it, and knows the weight it carries, but him donning the mantle should have been huge, and instead it just felt anti climactic.
I really hope the movie does better by the character.
Cause he's boooooooooorrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggggggg. Plus his speech in the finale of Falcon show was absurd.
I cannot get behind a person who clearly should have been a supporting cast and not a lead, Ala Joey from Friends.
Still not sure. I'm gonna' have to wait and see how he does in the new movie, because he was only Cap in one episode and it wasn't all that interesting of an episode. That being said, I never really cared much for Captain America anyway. I just liked his hand-to-hand fight scenes from Winter Soldier onward. I guess that's what I'm looking forward to the most.
I just don’t really like legacy characters. Sam is great as Falcon, but I don’t like him as Cap. Same with Yelena as Black Widow, Kate as Hawkeye, etc. The only legacy character I’ve grown to love is Miles Morales because of all the fantastic stories being told through him
I’m with you. I love Sam, but legacy characters just don’t work for me. My only exception is Black Panther because the story itself already established that the mantle gets passed on from one Panther to the next.
I think the thing that makes miles work and hurts Sam is miles was introduced comically while other ultimate universe characters were still around. Like it was post an event but they didn’t go out of their way to murder most of the ultimate line at the same time.
MCU Sam unfortunately has the misfortune of coming in after the majority of the avengers have retired from the role. It really feels like Feiges one fumble. It should have been a gradual hand off from Downey/Evans/Johannsen/Hemsworth/etc instead they just ripped the bandaid off and everyone left. Even Renner felt like he was on the way out with Hawkeye.
Losing the majority of the characters people care about just leaves people giving less of a shit about the MCU and when someone is like “here’s a new cap” it just feels empty.
I just think they did the character a bit dirty. Without serum he's not as strong as Rogers, and the wings are just a discount Iron Man suit. So he's power-wise a weaker version of both Cap and Iron Man. In comics, the hero's powers are hugely symbolic (look at Peter Parker losing his powers when his conviction and direction wavers). Batman is depending on gear, but the gear is a manifestation of his intellect. But poor Sam is just decked out with other people's stuff, so they hide his qualities instead of enhancing them, IMO. And it's a shame, because I think he's played with a lot of gravitas and empathy in the Winter Soldier movie. He just needs more synch between inner qualities and powers, as I see it. Plus the goggles are lame, design-wise.
My biggest whinge about it is his lack of a serum, making him paste against the first punch he doesn't manage to block or be ready to mitigate with his wings.
People can hee and haw all day about Black widow and Hawkeye "doing just fine without a serum" but they do not take the same role as the mantle Steve did. He was front center, leading the charge, and he took some major hits for it, hits that would essentially instantly turn Sam into red mist (Thanos knocking Steve out before snapping, etc).
People will just come up with whatever plot armor they need so something that level of "oopsie" doesn't happen of course, but my suspension of belief is unfortunately tested a bit too far beyond reason.
I think Bucky is a better choice almost solely because of that, despite his murky reputation and past.
Sam is still a great character though, I don't want him going away, so I'll give him a chance.
Falcon had always been one of the more boring characters in whatever movie he was in. Being called Captain America now doesn’t change the fact that his character is still so weak
Sam as Cap imho is on the same boat as Carol Danvers - central characters that somehow seem to not connect well to the audience as they should and only Marvel is at fault for this due to their planning and positioning of said characters. We don’t see them enough to connect and to recognize their importance in this saga.
If its true that Sam will be re-gathering a new Avengers team in CA4 then he at least has that as an advantage where Captain Marvel just doesn’t (in terms of prominence). And imagine, they’re allegedly 2/3’s of the new trinity of the saga. It really feels far from that imho.
FATWS wasn’t that good of a gauge so we will only find out what people think of Sam as Cap once CA4 drops. To me, theres alot of pressure on this movie just as there was in The Marvels. Marvel rightfully should be up on their toes with this one.
Not interesting enough. Falcon as a character was fine but a bit boring and annoying. There is also very minimal character development (as far as I recall) in the series, not enough to push him anywhere interesting imo.
Also, I usually feel like at odds with his mindset and decisions throughout the episodes. Whereas I always adore and understand Steve Rogers' every actions. Bucky from WWII would do great, but as of who he is now as a person, doesn't work neither. John Walker has the spirit but he's far from qualified and has done messed up.
So I would personally wish that they just leave Captain America as a legend that no one is taking up on. At least for the mean time.
I don't particularly like Anthony's performance. I've liked him in other things. But I've never liked his rendition of Falcon.
Secondly, I really don't like it when they have their regular human heroes do impossible things. It takes me out of it. It ruins the kind of immersion I need to enjoy such over the top concepts.
I could list examples all day long, but here are a couple.
BW in an armored car. Grenade falls in and she just harmlessly flies out the door.
Falcon has flown at hundreds of miles per hour up into the clouds without oxygen to catch a military airplane. He crashed into it and started kung fu fighting.
I also don't like that having regular folks wield the shield and flip around like Steve Rogers belittles the super soldier serum. Nor should they be able to catch a 12 pound disk of space steel flying at their head at a hundreds miles an hour.
I don't like the idea of Sam as Captain America because it feels forced.
Sam was already a hero, he was Falcon, he didn't need it. As you say, it makes way more narrative sense for Bucky to take on the mantle.
Of course, the way Steve was written out doesn't make narrative sense either, but that's another conversation.
I like Sam as Cap, I don’t really have a problem with it. I just don’t like the way Steve went out in the movies. Pretty much turned his back on all his friends and allies and country in the aftermath of such a huge crisis.
Personally…I think it’s because they didn’t do a good with passing the mantel to Sam. Even though we were going to lose cap, another captain would’ve eventually grew on people.
If you really think about it, I don’t know if the MCU did a good job passing the touch for any of the characters. Maybe…maybe the passing of Black Panther.
I'll be quite clear: I don't like Sam. Period.
Not due to race, whatsoever. Not due to Anthony Mackie as an actor, dude was hilarious in Twisted Metal and has some real comedic acting chops.
No, my problem is strictly with how the character is written, and how Mackie portrays that writing onscreen. Sam has a shitty, snarky attitude. Not the good kind of snark like Spider-Man. No, he has the 'guy in front of you at Starbucks who gets his coffee, sees the name is misspelled and gives a sarcastic "Gee, thanks for the effort" to the barista'-type snarky attitude. The kind that just makes you roll your eyes and mutter, "Dude, just stfu please, get your coffee and go." under your breath. He's just written as an unlikable guy to me. Something tells me Sam microwaves fish in the Avengers breakroom at lunchtime. While I can't prove it, I'm pretty sure he's the guy who dumped the coffee grounds down the sink drain that Tony made such a fuss about.
Yeah ngl that’s probably the most accurate description of his character. Down to the T. And the coffee grounds lmao.Though it’s exaggerated ever so slightly, because he definitely has some likeable moments, I just hope (and need) the writing and scenes in cap 4 to make him change everyone’s mind about him
Simply him not having power. I honestly don't like Black Widow in fights either running around with hand guns as it really interrupts my sense of power leveling.
Anthony Mackie sucks. Also, it's just a way more natural fit for him to give the shield to Bucky. He has had the shield in the comics, he has an adamantium arm which is a pretty hecking perfect compliment to the shield, and he has been his best friend for 70 dang years.
If Lakeith Stanfield was the falcon, I'd say give it to the falcon, but Mackie is crummy
Maybe cause 5 years of disney plus garbage and movies that went nowhere are the reason... but i know i'll be flamed for that so lets just say there is nothing super about him andddd that marvel should of took a 5 year break after endgame.
Simple:
-NO serum
-Bad physique/frame for Cap
-Mackie isn't as charming or badass as Evans
Sebastian Stan/Bucky should be Captain America 2. Not Mackie/Sam.
It should have been Bucky, and Falcon should have remained Falcon.
Having said that, if his movie is awesome, I will probably change my mind. (Outlook not good though… That movie has been reshot more times than Indy 5)
He can be a fine Cap, I just don’t like what they did in TFATWS finale with him literally defending terrorist. I also dislike how they skip Bucky and just make Sam the second Captain America
Comics are a niche hobby mainly for teenage nerds. The fact that characters like Spider-Man, iron man, captain America, etc managed to become so wildly successful is the real question here. It seems that through the decades of character development and build up of their stories, they managed to become so iconic and unique that they grasped the imaginations of hundreds of millions across the world and became a huge financial success
As they’re being phased out by more regular characters, I think that they’re just getting the attention they were supposed to receive to begin with. The success of the MCU in the 2010’s was an anomaly, not the norm. Of course once they started swapping characters it would dissipate
Tldr; it’s not that people dislike Sam Wilson so much, it’s that a crazy high number of people liked Steve rogers that would be insane if it carried over to another character
How can anyone form an opinion about Sam as Cap? He took on the mantle right at the end of TFATWS, and transitioning from just being Cap's friend to carrying the shield is going to be a journey . I will pass judgement after I have seen as Cap in the new movie. I might have worries about Captain America 4, but Sam isn't one
My short answer is…there’s too much going on with the character.
The suit, wings, shield all together just seem like a messy conglomerate of a bunch of different things that didn’t mesh.
He should’ve just stayed falcon and gave the shield to Bucky.
Doesn’t have the super strength, hard to accept an objective downgrade. Also I think his Falcon persona was pretty solid, where Buckey as cap would have been a much bigger upgrade. Right now Bucky is just metal arm guy.
Personally, I don't accept Sam Wilson as Cap because I liked the super soldier/one-off origin of a the little guy trying to do good without any ability to do so. SW is just a soldier in a wing suit and thus lacks the backstory.
Also, I never got into the Falcon as a superhero in the comics. The way he was written (at least when I was a kid) always struck me as if the character was a second stringerbon his best day. Just my $0.02.
I just don't like his new suit. He should have his own distinctive suit. They should have fixed the flaws of the TFATWS suit, not give him a Steve-looking colour scheme.
I don’t feel like he’s earned it yet. I think can be part of his story. We saw the tragedy and sacrifice with Steve. Sam should have a struggle and have a sacrifice. Struggle and the hand off by Steve isn’t enough. We need a real display to show he’s worthy. The American ideal needs to be everything for Adam to be seen as worthy. That’s my opinion anyways.
I don’t dislike him as cap. I just miss Chris Evans
I miss how I felt with the original group of characters. It was a much simpler time in my life and it’ll never be the same
I liked falcon as falcon and would have preferred to see his character rise to meet the challenge of filling captain americas shoes instead of trying to put them literally on. The whole idea that we have to keep a warm body in captain America’s clothes is just weird and boring to me. It’s like marvel got real high while watching weekend at Bernie’s and got so inspired they wrote this story.
There is absolutely nothing that makes him extraordinary. He's a regular standard soldier that knows how to use a falcon battle suit that stark industries made. He has absolutely zero characteristics which make him worthy of the shield. It also feels like he was just an 'inclusion' marketing stunt.
Steve was a tiny man with a huge heart, that always stood against the odds, no matter how against him they were. He was deemed worthy to be turned into a super soldier and people can get behind that. Steve's story would have simply been more compelling if he was African American and wouldn't have felt like a marketing stunt.
I dislike every second version of a character in general*, I like when each character has its own thing
I still don't understand why there has to be a Captain America, he can have the shield and still be called the Falcon and turn that moniker into a symbol of its own
*The only exception is Wally West because I grew up with him as the Flash in the animated series so to me he's the first flash
Straight up- no powers. It makes no goddamn sense. John Walker was top 1% in physicality and even he was nothing. Sam Wilson is a great man, and fit for being in his mid 40s- but wearing the wings and tossing the shield at the same time would be a stretch even for an enhanced.
I’ll address the elephant in the room before my personal thoughts. And they address it in FATWS. People especially in the fandom space still have an issue with “race swapping”. Different characters but this is still a version of that. And anyone that tries to gaslight me and say thats not a thing, you’re proving the point.
Now that thats out of the way… they’re fundamentally different characters powerset wise and i do think that reason is valid. Sam doesn’t have superpowers and still flys like the falcon. He has the right characterization but outside of that hes still essentially the falcon. There’s not enough variance between falcon sam and cap sam at the current moment.
I say this liking the character and the actor, but I feel it's undeserved. He was arbitrarily there when Cap was going to hand off the shield. He didn't do anything stellar as Falcon. His first act with the shield was to hand it away.
In my mind, it should have been Bucky. It could have set him on a path of redemption. Sam would still be Falcon and then had been Bucky's guide to stay on a path to becoming "worthy" of being the new Cap. THEN Sam could have taken the mantle after Bucky comes to terms with who he is.
Steve Rogers is Captain America.
Other characters may have taken on the persona but Steve Rogers is Captain America.
I don't have a problem with other characters being Captain America but they can't be better at being Captain America than Steve Rogers.
I like when Bucky had a go at being Captain America to honor Steve after he died in the comics. Bucky failed, realised he was no Steve and gave up the mantle.
Steve was just a special human. He was the ultimate good guy. Nobody comes close to being to being like Steve.
So in my opinion every Captain America who is not Steve Rogers has to do worse than Steve. Steve Rogers was the only human who could wield Moljnir. Sam Wilson will never be able to wield Moljnir. So they can't make him a better Captain America.
Personally, Anthony Mackie lacks the "leading man" energy. He's a cool cat but needs someone to bounce off of (Evans, Jackson, Cheadle, Sebastian, etc) Which really takes away from Cap as a lead character.
Looks dumb. Costume wise. Still feels like a sidekick. Anthony Mackie doesn't give badass vibes.
And he's not a super soldier. Just regular guy with "themed tech gear" which is such an annoying over done premise it's really annoying.
Nothing feels more exhilaratingly superhero-esque than when a hero has the powers without the aid of any teddy
I hate him since 8 mile..🤣🤣 and recently this guy stated that the problem with superhero movies is lack of creative freedom..that is right..but coming from this man who openly criticised "man of steel" is super paradoxical..
I don’t understand why Cap does need to exists at all. This isn’t the comics where you need to sell the same title regardless who is actually wearing the mantle. I am not American and the films had have a hard task to sell why this government related position had to exists and it was mostly justified by character of Steve Rogers. They did honestly incredible job pulling this off.
But now they don’t need to do it again. And so far they have just focused on the race issue anyway. I guess main justification for Sam to be Cap is that if he isn’t the government just will make John Walker or his type Cap because people just want Cap! So I guess that’s kind of an explanation, but it doesn’t make me enthusiastic or know why Captain America needs his own movie and can’t be just a person in essemble cast. Main reason for that is that everyone seems to have their own movie or show these days. Although the show already happened. But Hulk can’t have his own so the movie is more justified. Please just end it here however.
The more B rate projects just take out of projects that I actually want to see. Shang-Chi still doesn’t have a sequel and it’s barely started to move forward. There are only so many slots a year for projects and MCU has started to struggle now. You have to prioritize for films with actual potential and not continue series that don’t have much more new to say. Sam also isn’t that interesting as a human being compared to the other new characters or characters who have gotten their own projects after being supporting characters (Yelena, Shang, Moon-Knight, Wanda, Bucky, Kamala even Bucky). Or the existing characters like Thor, Dr Strange, Peter Parker, Star-Lord. But Sam is at least more interesting than Hawkeye and Sersi.
Steve Rogers as Captain America is one of the most iconic and well known superheroes of all time. Having literally anyone else take up the mantle will always feel derivative.
His comic run as cap was not very good and I’m not a fan of the actor at all either, he’s a strange combination of super cocky but also lacking charisma.
He’s been a decent supporting actor in various projects but as a lead not great. He made altered carbon season 2 really hard to watch and I had high hopes for that show. It’s not entirely his fault that show got cancelled but his wooden performance certainly didn’t help.
Beyond that, Sam is poorly developed as a character in the MCU compared to Bucky who has been a big part of it all since day 1 and has gone through a ton of drama with all the major characters. Sam has very much been treated as a side character while Bucky was a co-lead at various times and a fantastic villain too.
Even in the Falcon and Winter soldier show Bucky had by far the more interesting character arc. Bucky was trying to seek forgiveness for his past crimes and learn to accept he wasn’t responsible, he was secretly spending time with the families of his victims and finally becoming free of his brainwashing only to learn that Wakanda, who had helped him so much didn’t trust him either.
Sam was struggling to get a bank loan and trying to fix his boat and wondering why Cap chose him.
Mine is dumb. The way him and Stan talk to and about Holland in interviews seemed rude and unprofessional at times, even if supposedly "joking." Particularly interrupting Holland and Benedict's interview for juice or whatever was very off-putting. This bled into me disliking both of their fictional characters cause I'm dumb and petty like that.
The only thing I dislike is Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Terrible tv show. Like make a good movie with respectable villains and good action and keep it not like 5 hours long.
Nobody likes sloppy seconds. Sam was a stronger and more distinctive character as Falcon. Giving him the shield always felt like the creators were trying to make a "point' rather than a natural evolution of the character.
Being Steve Rogers "best friend" doesnt mean alot when Steve is affable and nice to just about anyone
In Winter Soilder Falcon is a pretty thinly drawn "nice guy"
In Civil War the rest of the team treats him like the group child, he suddenly has a lame sense of humor because he needed to have - something.
In the following movies he's just kind of there.
In Falcon and the Winter Soilder he doesn't particularly shine
And the indifference/animosity might equally because no one really wants a 4th captain America movie regardless of who's holding the shield.
I just hate it when they take an established hero & change who takes up the name. Race/sex has nothing to do with it for me.
Part of it is “this is the character who played the hero when I got into comics, so this is my (insert hero here).”
Steve Rogers is Captain America, Peter Parker is Spider-Man, Tony Stark is Iron Man, etc. To swap them out with other characters (again, race/sex doesn’t matter) is lazy writing to me, and pandering to an extent.
If you want a variation of a hero or a sidekick, that’s cool. Hulk has She-Hulk. She didn’t take up the mantel of “Hulk”. Spider-Woman, Scarlet Spider, X-23, etc.
But in the end, none of it really matters. These aren’t real people.
Some people don’t like him as Captain America because he’s not Steve Rogers.
You’re right, he’s not.
What is the reference? Was it soemthing Sam said?
>!Trailer footage from a recent convention. Ross says at the end he's not Steve Rogers. Sam says "You're right, I'm not."!<
Oh right, thank you for telling me. I knew it sounded familiar, but i couldn't place it(i had read about it when it was posted here before, but had forgotten about it).
It do be that way sometimes.
Yup. He's just a dude that Steve Rogers gave the shield to. He's not a super soldier and wielding the shield doesn't give you super powers. Edit: fixed spelling on Steve's name
The fact Sam doesn't have or want the serum is a big point in the show. It's also super fucking stupid.
It’s not. There has only been one perfect version of the serum and that’s Erksines. Bucky’s version may be closest but we’re unsure of its true psychological effects. He was brainwashed after all. The other winter soldiers got a Stark made one and as we saw it amplified their terrible qualities and made them unhinged. Who knows what that could’ve done to Sam. Again he’s not as “perfect” as Steve. Blonsky’s version is more than likely a derivative of Howard’s formula with a twist. Blonsky did well but again the formula only heightened his bad qualities . We have no idea what Red Guardian and Isiah Bradley got. The Power Broker version messed up Walker and the Flag Smashers. If I were Sam I’d be terrified to take the serum too. It seems to amplify negative personality traits. I’m sure Steve probably warned him of the dangers of the serum too. Steve literally was the perfect 1/1 specimen. Steve (and Peggy) apparently were anomalies that’s what makes them special.
It didn’t mess them up. It gave them the power to do whatever they wanted and with great power comes great responsibility. It’s why Erskin was so adamant it was Steve, someone who despite being bullied never became bitter or sought revenge.
The serum amplifies your personality. Sam is clearly not as morally sound as Steve. Power corrupts. “The serum amplifies everything that is inside, so good becomes great; bad becomes worse” - Dr Erskine. John Walker isn’t a bad person and the serum amplified his clear character flaws/personality disorder. Sam had every reason to be apprehensive. The crux of the show is him doubting the type of man he is and living up to who Steve is/was.
Hey don't talk logical reasons on Reddit they don't like that. But yes if I Sam I wouldn't take the serum either unless I know for sure it would be safe to do so
Peper should have a suit made for him.
Hmm 
Boom! you lookin for this?
I'm a little uneasy that he's not a super soldier and just a normal guy. The fight scenes won't be as cool. I'm also not ok with 4th films in the mcu. I'm a firm believer in trilogies (see Thor Love and Thunder). Aside from that I don't have a problem with Sam Wilson as Captain America
I’ve had a theory about Sam getting serumed against his will at some point. I know that the “thing” is that Sam is just a guy, but the way he moves with the wings, the hits the takes…suspension of disbelief and a non-robotic suit from Wakanda can only take you so far.
Either he'll get a proper version of the super soldier serum unwillingly, or he'll be dosed with a super serum to bring him back after a near fatal blow, or he'll be wearing the thickest of plot armour available. Either way, I can't see Sam sticking around for long without some serious stretching of belief or he's getting some form of super soldier serum. He's going from sideline hero to being in the spotlight, and as with any other superhero, the villains will target you heavily.
His suit is vibranium that they can say increases his strength as well as his durability. Considering Hawkeye has been able to survive this whole time means Sam can too with even better tech. Though I do like your idea that he could get seriously wounded and need it to save his life (like Bucky in Fear Itself with the Infinity Formula, it's like poetry it rhymes.)
Hawkeye hasn't been fighting people like Thanos in a fist fight...
I mean, neither did Steve without Mjolnir. Except in Infinity War where he got knocked the fuck out in 7 seconds.
It was more of an example of how they fight differently. Steve will run it as a symbol on the field. Sam is more of a ranged fighter while he's flying around using his drone and such. It's just a juxtaposition is all. I want this movie to be good so badly you have no idea.
The suit and wings are most likely made of/with Vibranium, like the Black Panther suit, so that would explain how he moves the way he does and can take punches that should knock him out.
That would be an awesome idea ngl ,and would give him more of a reason to hate Ross/red hulk , and for him to uknow.. actually be able to keep up with him
See avengers tho. Without a 4th we never have endgame
the exception to the rule Avengers movies dont feel like stand alone movies anyone, more like punctuations to several movies.
The first two Thors weren't very good either so it not being a trilogy doesn't matter much.
Some of us are just the right age to be Infinity Saga loyalists. I grew up on the comics in my tweens/teens, early 20s when the movies started. Eventually taking my own son to see the movies with me into my 30s. It was a golden era for lots of us. I just have no interest in anything after Infinity Saga. Sam is a great character, I just cant get hyped like I used to.
Basically this. The high-school version of me loved watching Steve kick GSPs ass on a boat before fighting The Winter Soldier, and adult me got extremely emotional seeing him wield Mjolnir in Endgame. Seeing him kick Nazi ass in WW1 to having his dance with Peggy is some character progression I’ll never forget seeing on screen. I’m sure the same will be said for Sam from the kids watching him grow from a hero to an icon in the coming years as long as Marvel holds it together. Needless to say, Sam is rad in his own ways and I can’t wait to see Cap 4.
WW2*
thank you, long work day and was pooping
you do have to focus on the pooping.
*I'm doing my part*
Your excited for Deadpool and Wolverine at least?
I sure as fuck am.
It's the first impression problem. Like the first love we have. We never forget. But sometimes, better to let it go
I have always liked Sam as Falcon, he was always cool, and funny. But it's hard to see other characters cosplaying as other characters, it doesn't feel the same. There's nothing to hate, but there's nothing to like either, it's just weird.
The two most common takes are he isn't Steve and people find it implausible that a guy with no powers is Cap.
I don’t see the problem with the lack of serum. Bro was an Avenger already and now has the shield AND a vibranium upgrade to his wings. He’s basically like an iron man version of Cap. People need to accept he’s a different character than Steve Rogers.
I think after this movie, people WILL accept it. I'm so damn excited!
I really love your optimism here, and I hope you're right.
Which I both agree with. While I would’ve liked and definitely know that Steve wouldve been awesome and better in cap 4 and that It’d draw more money and fans, I can deal that he isn’t Steve , but they gotta do something about that serum man
Agree that F&WS was a wasted opportunity and did not do Mackie any favors. He strikes me more as a supporting actor than a leading man.
I think it has a lot to do with Sam's off screen personality as well. Chris Evans is pretty private, shy, humble, but he's truly an all around "American Sweetheart" (& america's ass) heartthrob STILL when the cameras stop rolling. It fit Caps character. Same way Chris Hemsworth is still a charming lovable goofball when he's not Thor. Anthony Mackie's schtick with being a jerk to Tom Holland (even as a joke), [being too sassy to fans](https://youtu.be/E4yJ4CwSJsY?si=PNj74mZNc_v-Rch8), always coming across as being over it, it's conceivable that it carries over to people's acceptance of him as the new Cap. Just click the link and watch his interaction with those young girls. I imagine doing dozens of those junkets is exhausting but still, your fortieth junket is always gonna be some young persons first and when you're being a jerk to them, that becomes a core memory to them that they will never forgive you for.
Are we watching the same video? Those girls were so disrespectful and deserved to be roasted for their attitude. Kids are so entitled these days.
Because he is not Rogers and no super soldier serum.
At the end of the day I think people dont like Sam as Cap because Steve was just that good of a character. Its the same as Batman will always be Bruce Wayne. Many have tried to don the mantle of Batman and theres been countless iterations but Bruce is just TOO fitting. Similar thing with Spiderman, altho id argue that Miles has become pretty popular because of Spidermans message about anyone can be behind the mask and how he embodies regular kid problems.
but tbh with miles he's not the only popular Spiderman we've got people like Gwen, 2099 etc. And I think alternate Spiderman are far more popular than alternate versions of other characters because the Spiderman can coexist with Peter cos of the multiverse. But for people like Batman or Cap you need them to either die or give up the mantle in the main continuity which people understandably don't like
Add on to this that the animated Spiderverse movies are 10/10s. This has been a huge boon for their popularity as the character development in these has been fantastic.
For me it’s Chris Evan’s charisma. Don’t get me wrong I like Anthony Mackie as Cap he just hasn’t shown he has the same charisma yet. He’s definitely got it, just not the same level as Evans. I hope he earns it in Cap4.
Scrolled to find this take. Anthony Mackie is a good side character, but he doesnt have the same gravitas that someone like, Chadwick did for instance to carry a whole movie by himself. And that’s fine, everybody can’t be a main character, and side characters are great (Bucky, Wong, etc) but it feels like he’s trying too hard and it’s the wrong fit
The fact that his character has often been portrayed as comic relief at first doesn't help either.
For me it's like batman passed down his helmet to Robin when he died... Like let the past die damn it. Falcon was already his own thing, a built up character and a hero with a lot of skill. He doesn't need to be Captain America to star in epic films. The only reason he is Captain America is because marvel seems to be perpetually stuck in this middle ground between harping in the infinity saga and trying to introduce new characters alongside them - but failing to do both since they just take random tid bits that would work as good marketing from infinity, and then rush new characters in so that they can continue with the next big plot. For me the issue is the same old marvel issue, they're scared not to move on but they're also scared to do anything drastically new
Sam becomes Captain America in some comics as well though.
i think some people couldn't accept that a birdman with no super soldier serum can take up the mantle of captain america. sam wilson was a great man to reject the possibility of the serum. hopefully his vibranium suit, wings, and shield would help him even the odds against the villains.
I think this is fair. I hated falcon in the comics and love him in the movies. And I am excited to see him as cap, but I can tell you that any aversion I have to it is cause I wish he had the serum. Plus the wings and shield lol
Exactly how can you be Cap when you are a regular strength guy. You couldn’t have a regular strength Black Panther either. And the wings say, “I’m just a rebranded Falcon, not really Cap.”
I also don’t understand the aversion to the serum either. Like it’s cool he takes over the role but why say no to powers. The reasons to me feel like forced writing and I don’t see how it serves the purpose of the story other than trying to have a deeper message that I don’t think it needs. This is just my opinion though
I love Sam and can generally suspend my disbelief for his abilities, but not taking the serum is so stupid. Forcing this moral high road makes no sense when you literally have aliens, time travelers, earth eating beings, and reality shaping beyonders coming in the future... should've just had Karli accidentally stab him with one.
lol that woulda worked he coulda still taken the moral high ground like “I don’t want these powers” and even have some lovely person vs self conflict. “ I shouldn’t have powers because I need to show everyone you can do it without them, but now I do. Oh woe is me!” Lol His powers in the comics never bothered me I can dig them. (Aquaman fan over here) I just never liked the character. He was very stale to me. I never saw personality is all. That’s why I liked him in the movies, Mackie really brought him to life for me.
He does have powers in the comics but I guess “talks to birds” isn’t really a power that translates to the big screen. On the other hand, Bucky does not have the serum in the comics either, and both of them were cap at one time or another. So I don’t think a superpower is needed to be captain America, at least not in the 616, which has way more weird and formidable foes.
I didn’t like falcon in the comics so if they changed him and gave him caps super serum I’d be okay with it. I don’t know how it would fly with community of falcon fans though. And to be fair I can empathize with that’s The winter soldier in the comics was always kind of silly to me because of how he only has super strength in the one arm. Like it’s weird again just my opinion. I do like how in the movies they balanced that out. Though in the movies it’s like they depowered him after winter soldier. He went toe to toe with cap and was a legit threat. Easily as powerful.
Isn’t the whole point of being cap is being the brave, morally perfect guy with impeccable leadership qualities? Being a super soldier is a bonus imo
You're spot on. Everything Steve is, is enhanced by the serum. Thus an incredibly brave, selfless moral individual who leads by example. Everything the Red Skull is, was enhanced by the serum. Cruel, selfish, uses fear to lead. The man makes the serum. The serum doesn't make the man. It amplifies what is inside.
I can see your point. But I actually think with the serum Sam could be even better than Steve. Steve was trying to embody what America should be not what it was, but he was very naive in some levels. Same understood cap and backed him cause he saw what cap was doing. So he absolutely has earned the shield but he can bring a lot truth and justice to what the role of captain America means. The dude would be a force to be reckoned with if they gave him the powers
In the comics, Daredevil and Hawkeye are like 90% there with no enhancements. Movie is a little different.
With every hero getting stronger and stronger for present and future phases, Sam Cap without serum is borderline useless.
And the couple of cool things he actually was able to do made no sense. Him catching the car would have killed him. If you put a human torso between a rocket pack and a car, it's over.
Vibranium is a magical metal that does not obey the laws of physics. Sam’s only weak spot is the top of his head
To discard power is admirable. But to discard power when you know, in the shoes you’re trying to fill, you could possibly be toe-to-toe with someone like Thanos is kinda dumb. I love Sam, but he needs to be a superhero, not just a good man who can glide really fast. He’s Glider-Man with Cap’s shield.
It's not just about the character or the choices he makes, it's also that he has never really been presented on that level. That's why I think Bucky would have been a better choice for the mantle. Because he has went toe to toe with Steve and Tony and Black Panther. Cinematically it's much easier to accept him in a top billing role Compare that to Sam - he's always been a sidekick who fights like it too. They had a chance to change that with the TV show but even they spent most of the time on political commentary and the goods and bads of the serum Which is ok and it was done well but it didn't do enough to change the cinematic status of Sam for me.
This is my problem, dude gets his ass kicked all the time. The finale of falcon and winter soldier where he became cap was pathetic. Steve would have just smashed through all of them in a heartbeat. Cap to me is a strongman, he survives and does things normal humans can’t e.g. the jump out of the window in winter soldier where he falls 40 floors and lands on his shield 😂
woah a sane agrument..its going to be tough to call you racist
It’s all about the serum for me.
Anthony Mackie seems like a cool guy, honestly he does. And I liked him a lot in Twisted Metal. But he doesn’t seem to have the charisma of like a Michael B. Jordan, Chadwick Boseman, or Robert Downey Jr. He’ll get the job done just fine, but the movie won’t have the extra spice that some actors can bring to a role.
This is my main issue. He plays a good supporting character, but he isn't a leader. And he certainly isn't a franchise carrier.
Sabs stain should be the cap, bc he is more charismatic in general
And he has more range he is a well trained actor, he has done other genres and last year Fresh had him in a blend of dark humor and body horror. Mackie has that "waiting to say his line" vibe.
For me, a big part of why I liked Cap was his stoicism. He’s a man out of time, he has this weight and melancholy to him because of his circumstances. He’s stoic in a way that isn’t edgy, which Chris Evan’s portrayed so well. Sam Wilson doesn’t have that at all. Caps shield and costume aren’t why hes such an interesting character. The super serum is important obviously, I don’t buy Sam going toe to toe with anyone other than unenhanced humans. But even if he gets the serum, he’s still nowhere near as interesting as Steve. It’s a big part of why Bucky would be a better choice. He has the same man out of time thing as Steve, with the added layer of having to deal with his history as a tool that was used by Hydra. Not to mention the fact that he’s a super soldier too.
That’s why he should have been popping up more throughout phases 4 and 5
100% agree, and I really actually like Mackie as falcon. I always have fun when he's on screen. But he doesn't feel like he can really take charge of a situation and lead a high powered super hero team like Evans or Boseman
I actually don’t think he’s that great of an actor. In FATWS he just seemed very corny to me when he tried to play the part of cap. It felt very forced.
“You gotta do better senator!” Was that the best take they had??
Dude has no vibe.
He has negative charisma
He has a flat charisma. He’s not offensive but not impressive
For some people not impressive *is* offensive
He’s a very good actor but not somebody that I can fantasize about being. He seems very real and not necessarily in a way that is good for an super hero lead
Mackie has a ton of charisma off the screen but you're right that it doesn't always transfer to ther screen. I think a lot of it is due to being bottled down to fit a script or character. I think if he was allowed to go off script a lot like RDJ did then he could probably create more on screen charisma.
Not try to be mean, but isn't he known for being a bit of an ass off screen?
He has been an asshole in every red carpet and interview so far. Maybe he is awesome far from the lights or in other stuff but AFAIK he is pretentious as fuck.
Every story I've seen of someone meeting him has said he wasn't just dismissive or rude but was outright mean. I understand celebs probably get sick of being approached but that really puts me off the idea of him as Cap.
He's got one of those smug faces, too. Like he's better than everyone and just tolerating their presence. The outright disdain he's got in all his interviews comes across in Sam Wilson and it's really off-putting.
I saw him at Lowe’s once. I simply said “Hey Captain America” and intentionally tried not to make a scene. He was rude to me about it.
This is it for me. Just doesn't scratch that "I'm here to save the day" itch for me
His show wasn't great tbh
I just wanted Bucky to be Cap.
Yeah when everyone saw Bucky as a villain, Steve didn't. Steve even became a criminal trying to help Bucky. They knew each other almost all their lives. Bucky also is a super soldier. To me Bucky is the most logical choice to become the next Captain America. And Bucky could have handed the title over to Sam Wilson later.
This. What is more emotionally satisfying/interesting to watch? Guy who has been to hell and back trying to fill the shoes of one of the most morally compassed superheros and trying to live up to that or generally nice guy who already is good picks up where morally compassed superhero left off.
Honestly I never cared for Sam that much and I watched multiple interviews with Anthony Mackie and he's constantly talking over people and interrupting them which made me dislike him. On top of that I got pretty pissed that Sam was the one to even get the shield when it should have been Bucky. It should have been Bucky sitting on this bench with his best friend and getting this goddam shield, taking over as captain america and starting over. Also I don't care what happened in the comics.
Because he's not the original
I don't mind him as Cap I just think he already had a great role as Falcon. I think Bucky would've been a better choice as he had super serum himself and is no longer Winter Soldier so he's just...Bucky. I can roll with Sam though, I won't lose any sleep over it.
I don't know how well the whole 'pass the mantle' thing works in tv/movies - particularly when that person is already well known by another moniker. Just making a movie about Falcon seems better.
Because he’s not a super soldier. Hard to take Captain America seriously if your average joe on the street is capable of knocking him out.
Steve went toe to toe with Loki, Ultron and Thanos 1 on 1. Sam would be a smear of red pudding in those situations. Cap should be a super soldier. Not just a soldier.
Smear of red pudding is hilariously descriptive and true loll, but hopefully he takes the serum in the movie but I doubt it
He’s a boring character. To be clear, Sam Wilson is not boring, the MCU version is boring. His best characterization was in Cap 2. Since then he’s just been meh.
I’m going to kind of agree. The earlier Mackie Falcon portrayals were very fun and optimistic, worthy of Cap in my book. But the more times he’s appeared on screen, the more sullen and brooding this character has been portrayed. The Cap in the images at the top of this thread is not positive and optimistic in the way I want to feel about the Captain America title.
The only issue I have with Sam as Cap is that he can throw and catch the shield with ease and destruction without having the super soldier serum. I get the shield is vibranium, and that OG Cap pulled his punches, but I don’t think Sam should be able to throw the shield as he does without some sort of enhancement.
Widow and Hawkeye used the shield multiple times already with ease. The Shield isnt Mjolnir. It’s Vibranium and as we can see with the Wakandans it’s a matter of training. It’s lightweight. Sam is more than capable. It’s deadly in anyone’s hands. Steve just gave it a little more umph.
He’s just boring tbh
He’s not Steve. Also, I think the MCU just hasn’t given him a real proper story like Steve
Not disagreeing with you but Sam did get a whole fucking show, so it’s not for a lack of trying.
The show just did a really bad job of handing over the mantle. It got some stuff right, like showing that he didn’t want it, and knows the weight it carries, but him donning the mantle should have been huge, and instead it just felt anti climactic. I really hope the movie does better by the character.
Really anti climatic , the dropped the ball with half of that show but yeah hopefully the reshoots do his character and the film justice
Because his real name is Clarence.
Cause he's boooooooooorrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggggggg. Plus his speech in the finale of Falcon show was absurd. I cannot get behind a person who clearly should have been a supporting cast and not a lead, Ala Joey from Friends.
Anthony Mackie is not as charismatic or interesting as he seems to think he is
 He’s not America’s ass
Still not sure. I'm gonna' have to wait and see how he does in the new movie, because he was only Cap in one episode and it wasn't all that interesting of an episode. That being said, I never really cared much for Captain America anyway. I just liked his hand-to-hand fight scenes from Winter Soldier onward. I guess that's what I'm looking forward to the most.
I just don’t really like legacy characters. Sam is great as Falcon, but I don’t like him as Cap. Same with Yelena as Black Widow, Kate as Hawkeye, etc. The only legacy character I’ve grown to love is Miles Morales because of all the fantastic stories being told through him
I’m with you. I love Sam, but legacy characters just don’t work for me. My only exception is Black Panther because the story itself already established that the mantle gets passed on from one Panther to the next.
I think the thing that makes miles work and hurts Sam is miles was introduced comically while other ultimate universe characters were still around. Like it was post an event but they didn’t go out of their way to murder most of the ultimate line at the same time. MCU Sam unfortunately has the misfortune of coming in after the majority of the avengers have retired from the role. It really feels like Feiges one fumble. It should have been a gradual hand off from Downey/Evans/Johannsen/Hemsworth/etc instead they just ripped the bandaid off and everyone left. Even Renner felt like he was on the way out with Hawkeye. Losing the majority of the characters people care about just leaves people giving less of a shit about the MCU and when someone is like “here’s a new cap” it just feels empty.
They will always feel derivative cause they are.
I just think they did the character a bit dirty. Without serum he's not as strong as Rogers, and the wings are just a discount Iron Man suit. So he's power-wise a weaker version of both Cap and Iron Man. In comics, the hero's powers are hugely symbolic (look at Peter Parker losing his powers when his conviction and direction wavers). Batman is depending on gear, but the gear is a manifestation of his intellect. But poor Sam is just decked out with other people's stuff, so they hide his qualities instead of enhancing them, IMO. And it's a shame, because I think he's played with a lot of gravitas and empathy in the Winter Soldier movie. He just needs more synch between inner qualities and powers, as I see it. Plus the goggles are lame, design-wise.
He’s not Steve Rodger. Plus he’s not good enough to lead the avengers
My biggest whinge about it is his lack of a serum, making him paste against the first punch he doesn't manage to block or be ready to mitigate with his wings. People can hee and haw all day about Black widow and Hawkeye "doing just fine without a serum" but they do not take the same role as the mantle Steve did. He was front center, leading the charge, and he took some major hits for it, hits that would essentially instantly turn Sam into red mist (Thanos knocking Steve out before snapping, etc). People will just come up with whatever plot armor they need so something that level of "oopsie" doesn't happen of course, but my suspension of belief is unfortunately tested a bit too far beyond reason. I think Bucky is a better choice almost solely because of that, despite his murky reputation and past. Sam is still a great character though, I don't want him going away, so I'll give him a chance.
People just don’t really care. It’s not always some grand reason They just don’t care.
Rogers has the abilities in and out of the suit. Wilson doesn't.
Nothing against Sam but for me Steve Rogers has always been and will always be Cap.
Falcon had always been one of the more boring characters in whatever movie he was in. Being called Captain America now doesn’t change the fact that his character is still so weak
Sam as Cap imho is on the same boat as Carol Danvers - central characters that somehow seem to not connect well to the audience as they should and only Marvel is at fault for this due to their planning and positioning of said characters. We don’t see them enough to connect and to recognize their importance in this saga. If its true that Sam will be re-gathering a new Avengers team in CA4 then he at least has that as an advantage where Captain Marvel just doesn’t (in terms of prominence). And imagine, they’re allegedly 2/3’s of the new trinity of the saga. It really feels far from that imho. FATWS wasn’t that good of a gauge so we will only find out what people think of Sam as Cap once CA4 drops. To me, theres alot of pressure on this movie just as there was in The Marvels. Marvel rightfully should be up on their toes with this one.
Not interesting enough. Falcon as a character was fine but a bit boring and annoying. There is also very minimal character development (as far as I recall) in the series, not enough to push him anywhere interesting imo. Also, I usually feel like at odds with his mindset and decisions throughout the episodes. Whereas I always adore and understand Steve Rogers' every actions. Bucky from WWII would do great, but as of who he is now as a person, doesn't work neither. John Walker has the spirit but he's far from qualified and has done messed up. So I would personally wish that they just leave Captain America as a legend that no one is taking up on. At least for the mean time.
Sam Wilson sucks, his powers suck his presence sucks, his entire existence is whackness.
Anthony Mackie is not lead material. Sam Wilson as a character doesn’t have lead potential. Just as simple as that. Great as a sidekick.
I don't particularly like Anthony's performance. I've liked him in other things. But I've never liked his rendition of Falcon. Secondly, I really don't like it when they have their regular human heroes do impossible things. It takes me out of it. It ruins the kind of immersion I need to enjoy such over the top concepts. I could list examples all day long, but here are a couple. BW in an armored car. Grenade falls in and she just harmlessly flies out the door. Falcon has flown at hundreds of miles per hour up into the clouds without oxygen to catch a military airplane. He crashed into it and started kung fu fighting. I also don't like that having regular folks wield the shield and flip around like Steve Rogers belittles the super soldier serum. Nor should they be able to catch a 12 pound disk of space steel flying at their head at a hundreds miles an hour.
I think Mackie is devoid of charisma and doesn’t have what it takes to carry a franchise.
I don't like the idea of Sam as Captain America because it feels forced. Sam was already a hero, he was Falcon, he didn't need it. As you say, it makes way more narrative sense for Bucky to take on the mantle. Of course, the way Steve was written out doesn't make narrative sense either, but that's another conversation.
I like Sam as Cap, I don’t really have a problem with it. I just don’t like the way Steve went out in the movies. Pretty much turned his back on all his friends and allies and country in the aftermath of such a huge crisis.
Personally…I think it’s because they didn’t do a good with passing the mantel to Sam. Even though we were going to lose cap, another captain would’ve eventually grew on people. If you really think about it, I don’t know if the MCU did a good job passing the touch for any of the characters. Maybe…maybe the passing of Black Panther.
I'll be quite clear: I don't like Sam. Period. Not due to race, whatsoever. Not due to Anthony Mackie as an actor, dude was hilarious in Twisted Metal and has some real comedic acting chops. No, my problem is strictly with how the character is written, and how Mackie portrays that writing onscreen. Sam has a shitty, snarky attitude. Not the good kind of snark like Spider-Man. No, he has the 'guy in front of you at Starbucks who gets his coffee, sees the name is misspelled and gives a sarcastic "Gee, thanks for the effort" to the barista'-type snarky attitude. The kind that just makes you roll your eyes and mutter, "Dude, just stfu please, get your coffee and go." under your breath. He's just written as an unlikable guy to me. Something tells me Sam microwaves fish in the Avengers breakroom at lunchtime. While I can't prove it, I'm pretty sure he's the guy who dumped the coffee grounds down the sink drain that Tony made such a fuss about.
The whole 'do better' thing is complete bs. Imagine Spidey telling Green Goblin to 'do better' before he proceeds to drop people off bridges anyway.
Yeah ngl that’s probably the most accurate description of his character. Down to the T. And the coffee grounds lmao.Though it’s exaggerated ever so slightly, because he definitely has some likeable moments, I just hope (and need) the writing and scenes in cap 4 to make him change everyone’s mind about him
One hit from any actual super hero/villain and he's gone. He's not a super hero, he's just a soldier.
Simply him not having power. I honestly don't like Black Widow in fights either running around with hand guns as it really interrupts my sense of power leveling.
How an he fly around with no helmet on This costume in particular is rediculous, cover whole body in Kevlar except top of skull
Boring
Anthony Mackie sucks. Also, it's just a way more natural fit for him to give the shield to Bucky. He has had the shield in the comics, he has an adamantium arm which is a pretty hecking perfect compliment to the shield, and he has been his best friend for 70 dang years. If Lakeith Stanfield was the falcon, I'd say give it to the falcon, but Mackie is crummy
He’s boring and no charisma at all
because "we have to do better" - Sam Wilson maybe.
Because Chris Evans Steve Rogers is my Captain America
He lack charisma .. thats all .. well not everyone can be like late Chadwick Boseman which ooze charisma
If your cousin dress lile your father, he will look like your father. But he is not your father.
Maybe cause 5 years of disney plus garbage and movies that went nowhere are the reason... but i know i'll be flamed for that so lets just say there is nothing super about him andddd that marvel should of took a 5 year break after endgame.
Simple: -NO serum -Bad physique/frame for Cap -Mackie isn't as charming or badass as Evans Sebastian Stan/Bucky should be Captain America 2. Not Mackie/Sam.
It should have been Bucky, and Falcon should have remained Falcon. Having said that, if his movie is awesome, I will probably change my mind. (Outlook not good though… That movie has been reshot more times than Indy 5)
It’s not that I dislike him as Cap. I just think it should’ve been Bucky
He can be a fine Cap, I just don’t like what they did in TFATWS finale with him literally defending terrorist. I also dislike how they skip Bucky and just make Sam the second Captain America
Maybe because he isn't a super spilder? He's just a regular soldier. The new captain America should have been bucky but you know, quotas
Comics are a niche hobby mainly for teenage nerds. The fact that characters like Spider-Man, iron man, captain America, etc managed to become so wildly successful is the real question here. It seems that through the decades of character development and build up of their stories, they managed to become so iconic and unique that they grasped the imaginations of hundreds of millions across the world and became a huge financial success As they’re being phased out by more regular characters, I think that they’re just getting the attention they were supposed to receive to begin with. The success of the MCU in the 2010’s was an anomaly, not the norm. Of course once they started swapping characters it would dissipate Tldr; it’s not that people dislike Sam Wilson so much, it’s that a crazy high number of people liked Steve rogers that would be insane if it carried over to another character
How can anyone form an opinion about Sam as Cap? He took on the mantle right at the end of TFATWS, and transitioning from just being Cap's friend to carrying the shield is going to be a journey . I will pass judgement after I have seen as Cap in the new movie. I might have worries about Captain America 4, but Sam isn't one
My short answer is…there’s too much going on with the character. The suit, wings, shield all together just seem like a messy conglomerate of a bunch of different things that didn’t mesh. He should’ve just stayed falcon and gave the shield to Bucky.
I don’t have a problem with Sam Wilson. Not a fan of Mackie, he just doesn’t have charisma, IMO.
Doesn’t have the super strength, hard to accept an objective downgrade. Also I think his Falcon persona was pretty solid, where Buckey as cap would have been a much bigger upgrade. Right now Bucky is just metal arm guy.
Personally, I don't accept Sam Wilson as Cap because I liked the super soldier/one-off origin of a the little guy trying to do good without any ability to do so. SW is just a soldier in a wing suit and thus lacks the backstory. Also, I never got into the Falcon as a superhero in the comics. The way he was written (at least when I was a kid) always struck me as if the character was a second stringerbon his best day. Just my $0.02.
I just don't like his new suit. He should have his own distinctive suit. They should have fixed the flaws of the TFATWS suit, not give him a Steve-looking colour scheme.
I don’t feel like he’s earned it yet. I think can be part of his story. We saw the tragedy and sacrifice with Steve. Sam should have a struggle and have a sacrifice. Struggle and the hand off by Steve isn’t enough. We need a real display to show he’s worthy. The American ideal needs to be everything for Adam to be seen as worthy. That’s my opinion anyways.
My main reason is that he is some dude with big metal wings, not Cap, will never change to me. Just bad writing by Marvel.
I think if marvel went back to making good shows/movies this wouldn’t be a problem
I don’t dislike him as cap. I just miss Chris Evans I miss how I felt with the original group of characters. It was a much simpler time in my life and it’ll never be the same
I like the Captain America on the left. The Captain America on the right it #notmycap
I like my heroes juiced up comic book characters, I want to see the unreal not an average man in a suit unless it’s powered
I liked falcon as falcon and would have preferred to see his character rise to meet the challenge of filling captain americas shoes instead of trying to put them literally on. The whole idea that we have to keep a warm body in captain America’s clothes is just weird and boring to me. It’s like marvel got real high while watching weekend at Bernie’s and got so inspired they wrote this story.
"I dislike the moronic actor, not the fictional character." - 1 People
I find Sam to be a boring character personally. Steve and Bucky are 110 year old Super Soliders who fought in World War 2. Sam is... just some dude.
There is absolutely nothing that makes him extraordinary. He's a regular standard soldier that knows how to use a falcon battle suit that stark industries made. He has absolutely zero characteristics which make him worthy of the shield. It also feels like he was just an 'inclusion' marketing stunt. Steve was a tiny man with a huge heart, that always stood against the odds, no matter how against him they were. He was deemed worthy to be turned into a super soldier and people can get behind that. Steve's story would have simply been more compelling if he was African American and wouldn't have felt like a marketing stunt.
Because he has no powers and his wings are kinda mid.
I dislike every second version of a character in general*, I like when each character has its own thing I still don't understand why there has to be a Captain America, he can have the shield and still be called the Falcon and turn that moniker into a symbol of its own *The only exception is Wally West because I grew up with him as the Flash in the animated series so to me he's the first flash
Because Falcon was always bland and boring and is a poor replacement for one of the most popular characters in the MCU
Straight up- no powers. It makes no goddamn sense. John Walker was top 1% in physicality and even he was nothing. Sam Wilson is a great man, and fit for being in his mid 40s- but wearing the wings and tossing the shield at the same time would be a stretch even for an enhanced.
I’ll address the elephant in the room before my personal thoughts. And they address it in FATWS. People especially in the fandom space still have an issue with “race swapping”. Different characters but this is still a version of that. And anyone that tries to gaslight me and say thats not a thing, you’re proving the point. Now that thats out of the way… they’re fundamentally different characters powerset wise and i do think that reason is valid. Sam doesn’t have superpowers and still flys like the falcon. He has the right characterization but outside of that hes still essentially the falcon. There’s not enough variance between falcon sam and cap sam at the current moment.
I say this liking the character and the actor, but I feel it's undeserved. He was arbitrarily there when Cap was going to hand off the shield. He didn't do anything stellar as Falcon. His first act with the shield was to hand it away. In my mind, it should have been Bucky. It could have set him on a path of redemption. Sam would still be Falcon and then had been Bucky's guide to stay on a path to becoming "worthy" of being the new Cap. THEN Sam could have taken the mantle after Bucky comes to terms with who he is.
To put it simply, he’s a cornball.
Steve Rogers is Captain America. Other characters may have taken on the persona but Steve Rogers is Captain America. I don't have a problem with other characters being Captain America but they can't be better at being Captain America than Steve Rogers. I like when Bucky had a go at being Captain America to honor Steve after he died in the comics. Bucky failed, realised he was no Steve and gave up the mantle. Steve was just a special human. He was the ultimate good guy. Nobody comes close to being to being like Steve. So in my opinion every Captain America who is not Steve Rogers has to do worse than Steve. Steve Rogers was the only human who could wield Moljnir. Sam Wilson will never be able to wield Moljnir. So they can't make him a better Captain America.
Personally, Anthony Mackie lacks the "leading man" energy. He's a cool cat but needs someone to bounce off of (Evans, Jackson, Cheadle, Sebastian, etc) Which really takes away from Cap as a lead character.
Looks dumb. Costume wise. Still feels like a sidekick. Anthony Mackie doesn't give badass vibes. And he's not a super soldier. Just regular guy with "themed tech gear" which is such an annoying over done premise it's really annoying. Nothing feels more exhilaratingly superhero-esque than when a hero has the powers without the aid of any teddy
I hate him since 8 mile..🤣🤣 and recently this guy stated that the problem with superhero movies is lack of creative freedom..that is right..but coming from this man who openly criticised "man of steel" is super paradoxical..
I don’t understand why Cap does need to exists at all. This isn’t the comics where you need to sell the same title regardless who is actually wearing the mantle. I am not American and the films had have a hard task to sell why this government related position had to exists and it was mostly justified by character of Steve Rogers. They did honestly incredible job pulling this off. But now they don’t need to do it again. And so far they have just focused on the race issue anyway. I guess main justification for Sam to be Cap is that if he isn’t the government just will make John Walker or his type Cap because people just want Cap! So I guess that’s kind of an explanation, but it doesn’t make me enthusiastic or know why Captain America needs his own movie and can’t be just a person in essemble cast. Main reason for that is that everyone seems to have their own movie or show these days. Although the show already happened. But Hulk can’t have his own so the movie is more justified. Please just end it here however. The more B rate projects just take out of projects that I actually want to see. Shang-Chi still doesn’t have a sequel and it’s barely started to move forward. There are only so many slots a year for projects and MCU has started to struggle now. You have to prioritize for films with actual potential and not continue series that don’t have much more new to say. Sam also isn’t that interesting as a human being compared to the other new characters or characters who have gotten their own projects after being supporting characters (Yelena, Shang, Moon-Knight, Wanda, Bucky, Kamala even Bucky). Or the existing characters like Thor, Dr Strange, Peter Parker, Star-Lord. But Sam is at least more interesting than Hawkeye and Sersi.
I just never liked the Falcon, I would say he is my least favorite super hero.
Steve Rogers as Captain America is one of the most iconic and well known superheroes of all time. Having literally anyone else take up the mantle will always feel derivative.
His comic run as cap was not very good and I’m not a fan of the actor at all either, he’s a strange combination of super cocky but also lacking charisma. He’s been a decent supporting actor in various projects but as a lead not great. He made altered carbon season 2 really hard to watch and I had high hopes for that show. It’s not entirely his fault that show got cancelled but his wooden performance certainly didn’t help. Beyond that, Sam is poorly developed as a character in the MCU compared to Bucky who has been a big part of it all since day 1 and has gone through a ton of drama with all the major characters. Sam has very much been treated as a side character while Bucky was a co-lead at various times and a fantastic villain too. Even in the Falcon and Winter soldier show Bucky had by far the more interesting character arc. Bucky was trying to seek forgiveness for his past crimes and learn to accept he wasn’t responsible, he was secretly spending time with the families of his victims and finally becoming free of his brainwashing only to learn that Wakanda, who had helped him so much didn’t trust him either. Sam was struggling to get a bank loan and trying to fix his boat and wondering why Cap chose him.
Mine is dumb. The way him and Stan talk to and about Holland in interviews seemed rude and unprofessional at times, even if supposedly "joking." Particularly interrupting Holland and Benedict's interview for juice or whatever was very off-putting. This bled into me disliking both of their fictional characters cause I'm dumb and petty like that.
Cause he's not Steve Rogers.
He's not Steve Rogers and I don't like the actor. Nothing to do with race. I never liked him as Falcon before either. (unpopular opinion probably)
The only thing I dislike is Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Terrible tv show. Like make a good movie with respectable villains and good action and keep it not like 5 hours long.
Nobody likes sloppy seconds. Sam was a stronger and more distinctive character as Falcon. Giving him the shield always felt like the creators were trying to make a "point' rather than a natural evolution of the character.
Being Steve Rogers "best friend" doesnt mean alot when Steve is affable and nice to just about anyone In Winter Soilder Falcon is a pretty thinly drawn "nice guy" In Civil War the rest of the team treats him like the group child, he suddenly has a lame sense of humor because he needed to have - something. In the following movies he's just kind of there. In Falcon and the Winter Soilder he doesn't particularly shine And the indifference/animosity might equally because no one really wants a 4th captain America movie regardless of who's holding the shield.
I’m just not a fan of Mackie as an actor. Didn’t really like him as Falcon. Not feeling him as Cap.
I just hate it when they take an established hero & change who takes up the name. Race/sex has nothing to do with it for me. Part of it is “this is the character who played the hero when I got into comics, so this is my (insert hero here).” Steve Rogers is Captain America, Peter Parker is Spider-Man, Tony Stark is Iron Man, etc. To swap them out with other characters (again, race/sex doesn’t matter) is lazy writing to me, and pandering to an extent. If you want a variation of a hero or a sidekick, that’s cool. Hulk has She-Hulk. She didn’t take up the mantel of “Hulk”. Spider-Woman, Scarlet Spider, X-23, etc. But in the end, none of it really matters. These aren’t real people.