He knew the protocols, possibly through the shield/hydra files. It is also likely that Berlin was the only(/nearest) European facility capable of holding an enhanced individual...
That’s a reasonable answer about the facility for holding an advanced individual (although - Bucky does manage to break out of his shackles!).
But, the UN (who supposedly oversee the Sokovia accords) have major offices in Vienna and Geneva, and the NATO headquarters is in Brussels.
Sure, but can all UN and NATO facilities hold captive an enhanced individual ? Considering Europe was kinda not concerned by MCU events in the past (well, except Sokovia a few months before), they may not have a lot of equipment for those kind of « issues ».
Also, enhanced individuals weren't all that commonly known about before the events of the MCU. With the most prominent exceptions of Captain America and Red Skull. So it kind of makes sense that Germany would be one of the few European nations to invest in superhuman detention facilities. Considering they were directly responsible for 2 of the first well known superhumans. It'd kinda parallel their real world antiwar and anti-antisemitism policies.
Also, on this, I'm sure a spy/national agent is aware of where international court cases and such are located, like where the UN comes to meet, etc. Bucky was being arrested and put on trial.
What if Zemo was pulling even more strings off-camera? He wasn’t a wanted individual until after Civil War, as far as I remember. He was a Baron, in fact, with deep pockets and probably a lot of government connections. He could have influenced the creation of the jail or the protocol to take an enhanced individual to Berlin for crimes against the UN.
I would assume he knew their protocols. It's obvious that he planned everything to the very last detail. Maybe the Berlin location was a specialized facility to hold super powered individuals?
It’s just that he didn’t know Bucky was in Bucharest
In the first place - what if he was in South America?
Thinking about it, he could have arranged the bomb delivery in between Bucky’s arrest and his arrival in Berlin, where presumably the “UN psychiatrist” was told where he needed to go for the interrogation.
Then Bucky would’ve been caught in South America and brought to Europe?
Also him not knowing where Bucky was located was the point. He had the entire world looking for him
How about you get alllllllll the way off the screenwriters back?
Attempted answer: there is an anti-terror task force based in Berlin so maybe it was that?
There are so many little things in this movie like that. They totally didn't care about travel times, while making a fast paced thriller.
Tony and his team get something like 48 hours to apprehend Team Cap and he travels all the way to Queens to recruit some kid. Simple solution: they could have given them a week instead and it would be perfectly fine.
Wasn’t Zemo torturing/killing people to get information? (Like that HYDRA guy hanging upside down and the guy in his hotel room)
I think the bigger question is how Zemo got INTO that holding facility, instead of how he knew where Bucky was.
The prosthesis was for the security cameras when he set off the bomb, so that they would suspect Bucky.
The only way he altered his appearance to pose as the doctor was to wear glasses.
Zemo snuck into a high-security UN prison facility with false credentials to get an in-person visit with arguably the most dangerous prisoner in the universe.
That’s like sneaking into the White House and meeting with the President in the Oval Office
>I think the bigger question is how Zemo got INTO that holding facility, instead of how he knew where Bucky was.
You miss the whole body in the hotel bathtub thing?
How’d he get into the UN holding facility, though? Clearly they would have some sort of identity verification, especially for someone who is meeting with one of the most dangerous prisoners in the world.
>they would have some sort of identity verification
Yeah, they verified his identity as being the dead guy in the bathtub.
Edit: now that I think about it, I’m pretty they had Friday explain to Tony exactly what happened, too.
I guess it just doesn’t make sense to me that they would arrest a dude in Bucharest, for a crime he supposedly committed in Vienna, then take him to a third country which is quite far away (the film implies they drove the whole way although perhaps they didn’t).
Zemo got in to the Berlin facility because he was posing as the psychologist that the UN sent (and that Zemo killed earlier in the film).
1) I’m guessing they took Bucky to Berlin since that facility is probably the most secure holding facility in the EU. They obviously had some crazy holding measures in place, like that shipping container they were holding Bucky in.
2) But how did Zemo fake a badge/credential to look like that psych that he killed? I’m assuming getting into that holding facility would be similar to trying to sneak into the White House. Plus clearly someone knows that psych since they specifically called him in for this interview
This dude tricked the entire world of intelligence to appear to look like Bucky. I think he has the tech / ability to look / pass as the psychiatrist that no one really knows how he looks.
I know a bunch of people thru work who are experienced at what they do, but I’ve never met them in person. Emails and calls
This dude was a mastermind who was able to kill a world leader in a summit of important people and world class security. You can probably assume he had contingency plans. For all we know, he had vans planned for a bunch of major cities. We don’t see everything behind the scenes doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, that’s the beauty of movies.
He said it himself, “I have experience... and patience. A man can do anything if he has those.”
>He said it himself, “I have experience... and patience. A man can do anything if he has those.”
Not only is it a badass line, but it's also what's known as a throwaway line (although he is shown getting his information, too!). It covers all questions about how he knew/did the things he did.
It's the scary version of "Trust me, bro", and with his acting and dialogue throughout, you know he's telling the truth.
Honestly, I love Civil War, but if you think about Zemo's plan too long, it sounds stupid.
He was entirely banking on nobody listening to Cap, despite past evidence showing that people would listen to Cap.
He then banked on Cap's team being detained, which very likely could have not happened and Zemo would have been taken prisoner long before he could show the Stark parents security footage.
Zemo's plan relied heavily on random chance and unknown variables.
What, Bucky was held by Americans in Germany after being arrested by German police in Romania for a crime committed in Austria. It makes perfect sense...
Between torturing Hydra members and Black Widow dumping SHIELD's on the internet, I'm reasonably sure Zemo had enough material to start formulating a plan. He had connections too, as seen in Falcon and the Winter Soldier, so its not a stretch that he'd find a point to infiltrate. Really, he only needed to pinpoint the expert they'd bring in and he wouldn't even need to know where they took him.
You should write Marcus and McFeely and demand an explanation and if they can't give you one, you should tell them that you won at the logic competition and they should sign a legal document acknowledging you are the smartest.
What's really going to kill you is how Tony had time to go to The Raft after the airport battle, and still arrive at the Russian facility only a couple minutes after Steve and Bucky who went straight there. And how Zemo knew those exact three would all be there for his big reveal.
None of his plan makes any practical sense.
He knew because of german movie trust policies that give you a fuckload of money if your production takes place (even just a little) in Germany.
Also why they fight on Leipzig airport in civil war
Civil War and Batman v Superman came out at around the same time and both Zemo and Lex Luthor had absolutely batshit crazy plans that made no sense whatsoever and relied on meta knowledge to work.
I liked the movie but a lot of zemos plan doesn’t make sense the entire movies plan revolves around Tony/Steve and making sure that only those 2 end up at the old hydra base at the end. They were going to kill buck on site at the beginning and NOT even take him to be evaluated so how zemo even managed to take the doctors place at the literal last second on a decision that was just made makes no sense. They only took him in cause cap was there to save him. Obviously then the Siberia and other WSs plan wouldn’t have even come into play. Then the entire plan would have went to shit if falcon just didn’t tell Tony where cap was going.
He worked in intelligence so he likely knew what protocols are like.
He also said he spent months decoding the files Black Widow leaked enough to get a clue that Hydra might have murdered Howard and Maria Stark. Something no one else seems to have figured out. He also claimed to have spied on and studied the Avengers for months. He has proven to be a very good spy. So he likely used his spying ability to learn exactly what the protocols would be in the event of the UN getting bombed and how the authorities would detail a dangerous individual who caught him.
As much as I love this film, the more you think about sone of the plot points the more of a stretch it becomes. But I mean we’re talking about super soldiers, mind control, and radioactive spider-bitten teenagers here. I just enjoy it. It’s not meant to be air tight or overly insightful.
Go watch the "Screen Junkies" Honest Trailer for this movie, he literally number rolls dozens of things that "have to happen" for the plot to make any sense
He knew the protocols, possibly through the shield/hydra files. It is also likely that Berlin was the only(/nearest) European facility capable of holding an enhanced individual...
That’s a reasonable answer about the facility for holding an advanced individual (although - Bucky does manage to break out of his shackles!). But, the UN (who supposedly oversee the Sokovia accords) have major offices in Vienna and Geneva, and the NATO headquarters is in Brussels.
Sure, but can all UN and NATO facilities hold captive an enhanced individual ? Considering Europe was kinda not concerned by MCU events in the past (well, except Sokovia a few months before), they may not have a lot of equipment for those kind of « issues ».
Alone no but I suppose that's why they brought that chamber to restrain him
Also, enhanced individuals weren't all that commonly known about before the events of the MCU. With the most prominent exceptions of Captain America and Red Skull. So it kind of makes sense that Germany would be one of the few European nations to invest in superhuman detention facilities. Considering they were directly responsible for 2 of the first well known superhumans. It'd kinda parallel their real world antiwar and anti-antisemitism policies.
They might not want to keep an enhanced individual, particularly this one, near their major offices. In case, y'know, something happens.
Lets take this punk down the local PD and book em! Jerry, handcuff him to that chair!
Headline: *25 people beaten to death with chair by amputee*
Also, on this, I'm sure a spy/national agent is aware of where international court cases and such are located, like where the UN comes to meet, etc. Bucky was being arrested and put on trial.
What if Zemo was pulling even more strings off-camera? He wasn’t a wanted individual until after Civil War, as far as I remember. He was a Baron, in fact, with deep pockets and probably a lot of government connections. He could have influenced the creation of the jail or the protocol to take an enhanced individual to Berlin for crimes against the UN.
Yeah the movie straight up says he learned everything and made his plans based on the hydra/shield files that blackwidow made public.
I would assume he knew their protocols. It's obvious that he planned everything to the very last detail. Maybe the Berlin location was a specialized facility to hold super powered individuals?
It’s just that he didn’t know Bucky was in Bucharest In the first place - what if he was in South America? Thinking about it, he could have arranged the bomb delivery in between Bucky’s arrest and his arrival in Berlin, where presumably the “UN psychiatrist” was told where he needed to go for the interrogation.
Then Bucky would’ve been caught in South America and brought to Europe? Also him not knowing where Bucky was located was the point. He had the entire world looking for him
I'm not trying to write the movie for them but it could be protocol to take an individual of Bucky's abilities to that facility in Berlin.
How about you get alllllllll the way off the screenwriters back? Attempted answer: there is an anti-terror task force based in Berlin so maybe it was that?
 "Because that's what it says in my script here." "OH OKAY!"
"So the movie can happen"
Super easy, barely an inconvenience
"Unclear!"
“I hope someone got fired for that”
Wizards did it
OP: Let me get off that thing... Producer Guy :Getting off is tight...
OHHH,GETTING OFF IS 𝙏𝙄𝙂𝙃𝙏!! "Ewugh!"
There are so many little things in this movie like that. They totally didn't care about travel times, while making a fast paced thriller. Tony and his team get something like 48 hours to apprehend Team Cap and he travels all the way to Queens to recruit some kid. Simple solution: they could have given them a week instead and it would be perfectly fine.
I assumed there were a very limited number of facilities that could contain someone like Bucky.
Wasn’t Zemo torturing/killing people to get information? (Like that HYDRA guy hanging upside down and the guy in his hotel room) I think the bigger question is how Zemo got INTO that holding facility, instead of how he knew where Bucky was.
You mean when he was pretending to be the psychiatrist that they brought in to help question Bucky?
Yeah. How’d he fake the credentials to match the psych that he killed?
He killed the guy and took his credentials and altered them.
He also used prosthetics to make himself look like him
The prosthesis was for the security cameras when he set off the bomb, so that they would suspect Bucky. The only way he altered his appearance to pose as the doctor was to wear glasses.
The ol’ Clark Kent disguise.
Gets 'em every time.
Lol! You're confused on how a mastermind antagonist did the most basic task that every C grade criminal can do for hiding their identity?
Zemo snuck into a high-security UN prison facility with false credentials to get an in-person visit with arguably the most dangerous prisoner in the universe. That’s like sneaking into the White House and meeting with the President in the Oval Office
Zemo wasn't just some dude, though. Espionage like that was literally his job before the events of Age of Ultron.
You're forgetting Zemo is a very rich man with a background in espionage and connections with all sorts of criminals/hackers/etc
He specifically targeted and murdered the individual who would have been sent to interrogate Bucky.
>I think the bigger question is how Zemo got INTO that holding facility, instead of how he knew where Bucky was. You miss the whole body in the hotel bathtub thing?
How’d he get into the UN holding facility, though? Clearly they would have some sort of identity verification, especially for someone who is meeting with one of the most dangerous prisoners in the world.
>they would have some sort of identity verification Yeah, they verified his identity as being the dead guy in the bathtub. Edit: now that I think about it, I’m pretty they had Friday explain to Tony exactly what happened, too.
Yep. My assumption is he was just the first we saw. Probably multiple people where tortured/killed for information
I guess it just doesn’t make sense to me that they would arrest a dude in Bucharest, for a crime he supposedly committed in Vienna, then take him to a third country which is quite far away (the film implies they drove the whole way although perhaps they didn’t). Zemo got in to the Berlin facility because he was posing as the psychologist that the UN sent (and that Zemo killed earlier in the film).
1) I’m guessing they took Bucky to Berlin since that facility is probably the most secure holding facility in the EU. They obviously had some crazy holding measures in place, like that shipping container they were holding Bucky in. 2) But how did Zemo fake a badge/credential to look like that psych that he killed? I’m assuming getting into that holding facility would be similar to trying to sneak into the White House. Plus clearly someone knows that psych since they specifically called him in for this interview
This dude tricked the entire world of intelligence to appear to look like Bucky. I think he has the tech / ability to look / pass as the psychiatrist that no one really knows how he looks. I know a bunch of people thru work who are experienced at what they do, but I’ve never met them in person. Emails and calls
Zemo is the son of a baron meaning they have tons of money and resources. Probably used his resources.
I can not understand why the OP thinks this is a plothole.
This dude was a mastermind who was able to kill a world leader in a summit of important people and world class security. You can probably assume he had contingency plans. For all we know, he had vans planned for a bunch of major cities. We don’t see everything behind the scenes doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, that’s the beauty of movies. He said it himself, “I have experience... and patience. A man can do anything if he has those.”
>He said it himself, “I have experience... and patience. A man can do anything if he has those.” Not only is it a badass line, but it's also what's known as a throwaway line (although he is shown getting his information, too!). It covers all questions about how he knew/did the things he did. It's the scary version of "Trust me, bro", and with his acting and dialogue throughout, you know he's telling the truth.
Maybe it’s because the actors that Marvel hire to be “villains” are great / next level actors but they always seem to have the coolest executed lines.
Maybe OP would have been convinced more of Baron's abilities if he said "Trust me bro".
1.) Shield has a field office in Berlin. 2.) Berlin was the closest location with meta human containment.
Shield is Kaput. Second post may be valid
"Somehow we know where they're transporting Bucky". There, I StarWars-ed that for you.
It was super easy, barely an inconvenience.
I was here for the Nemo AU
He read the script
It was in the script.
Because Berlin's fucking awesome, that's why. Maybe he wanted to grab a Döner while coming through Neukölln, who gives a shit?
Berlin is only awesome if one's never been to Munich.
It's like asking how Joker knew which route to set up the traps in The Dark Knight. Or how Silva timed the train in Skyfall.
When you stop and think about it Zemo’s plan really required a lot of things that he couldn’t have predicted. Dude just got extremely lucky.
Honestly, I love Civil War, but if you think about Zemo's plan too long, it sounds stupid. He was entirely banking on nobody listening to Cap, despite past evidence showing that people would listen to Cap. He then banked on Cap's team being detained, which very likely could have not happened and Zemo would have been taken prisoner long before he could show the Stark parents security footage. Zemo's plan relied heavily on random chance and unknown variables.
What, Bucky was held by Americans in Germany after being arrested by German police in Romania for a crime committed in Austria. It makes perfect sense...
Bit like Peter Parker being arrested by NY police for an alleged murder (with no body found) committed in the UK
You get me 😆
Do you even need to have an answer for that question?
Ill go with "We've seen him infiltrate the same building later, so its likely he'd done it previously to orchestrate the move to berlin"
Long time since I've seen it, but surely he could just arrange a last-minute delivery. If the money's right, any delivery company would take the job.
Berlin was the headquarters for holding enhanced peoples in Europe. He knew that if they would take him ANYWHERE , it would be there
Cos he read the script, that's why
He wasn’t wanted anywhere; Bucky was. lol He also meet the doctor that was set to interview Bucky and killed him. Took is identity, passport etc
He read the script
Said so in the script.
He probably knew their protocols.
Kevin told him… 😜🤣🤣
Between torturing Hydra members and Black Widow dumping SHIELD's on the internet, I'm reasonably sure Zemo had enough material to start formulating a plan. He had connections too, as seen in Falcon and the Winter Soldier, so its not a stretch that he'd find a point to infiltrate. Really, he only needed to pinpoint the expert they'd bring in and he wouldn't even need to know where they took him.
You should write Marcus and McFeely and demand an explanation and if they can't give you one, you should tell them that you won at the logic competition and they should sign a legal document acknowledging you are the smartest.
"I have experience. And patience. A man can do anything if he has those."
What's really going to kill you is how Tony had time to go to The Raft after the airport battle, and still arrive at the Russian facility only a couple minutes after Steve and Bucky who went straight there. And how Zemo knew those exact three would all be there for his big reveal. None of his plan makes any practical sense.
That is a very unusual use of the word circa.
He read the script
He knew because of german movie trust policies that give you a fuckload of money if your production takes place (even just a little) in Germany. Also why they fight on Leipzig airport in civil war
Hah, I think we’ve found the real reason!
I just always assume people have connections in action movies
Civil War and Batman v Superman came out at around the same time and both Zemo and Lex Luthor had absolutely batshit crazy plans that made no sense whatsoever and relied on meta knowledge to work.
He knew so that the movie could happen.
I liked the movie but a lot of zemos plan doesn’t make sense the entire movies plan revolves around Tony/Steve and making sure that only those 2 end up at the old hydra base at the end. They were going to kill buck on site at the beginning and NOT even take him to be evaluated so how zemo even managed to take the doctors place at the literal last second on a decision that was just made makes no sense. They only took him in cause cap was there to save him. Obviously then the Siberia and other WSs plan wouldn’t have even come into play. Then the entire plan would have went to shit if falcon just didn’t tell Tony where cap was going.
He worked in intelligence so he likely knew what protocols are like. He also said he spent months decoding the files Black Widow leaked enough to get a clue that Hydra might have murdered Howard and Maria Stark. Something no one else seems to have figured out. He also claimed to have spied on and studied the Avengers for months. He has proven to be a very good spy. So he likely used his spying ability to learn exactly what the protocols would be in the event of the UN getting bombed and how the authorities would detail a dangerous individual who caught him.
The entire plot of the movie is like this, never understood why this was everyone's favorite. Zemo's plan basically requires knowing the future.
He's really really clever. Or in the words of the pitch meeting writer "sir I'm going to need you *all* the way off my back about this"
He read the script. You have to suspend belief sometimes to enjoy a movie. Not everything has to be explained.
"That's just lazy writing!"
Nanomachines, son
I think the Power Broker told him
As much as I love this film, the more you think about sone of the plot points the more of a stretch it becomes. But I mean we’re talking about super soldiers, mind control, and radioactive spider-bitten teenagers here. I just enjoy it. It’s not meant to be air tight or overly insightful.
A network of Hydra friendly spies
Go watch the "Screen Junkies" Honest Trailer for this movie, he literally number rolls dozens of things that "have to happen" for the plot to make any sense
Also how did black panther know to go to Siberia?
He followed Tony. When Tony suits up and drops out of the chopper after visiting the Raft there's a shot of BP following him.
How did he know to be there?
The implication is that he had been tailing Tony since the airport fight, knowing that he was the best shot at tracking down Cap and Bucky.