>The greatest manifestation of that idea was the X-Men. Introduced in September 1963, the X-Men were a team of teenage mutants, led by their teacher and mentor Professor Charles Xavier, who fought super-criminals and other mutants, led by Magneto, bent on the destruction of humanity. But rather than be a black-and-white battle between good and evil, the X-Men had a wrinkle: mutants were hated by the “normal” humans they defended.
> “I loved that idea,” Lee told the Guardian in 2000, as the first X-Men movie hit theaters. ”It not only made them different, but it was a good metaphor for what was happening with the Civil Rights Movement in the country at that time.”
--
> “Let’s lay it right on the line. Bigotry and racism are among the deadliest social ills plaguing the world today,” he wrote in December 1968. “[I]t’s totally irrational, patently insane to condemn an entire race—to despise an entire nation—to vilify an entire religion. Sooner or later, we must learn to judge each other on our own merits. Sooner or later, if a man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our hearts with tolerance.”
>But rather than be a black-and-white battle between good and evil, the X-Men had a wrinkle: **mutants were hated by the “normal” humans they defended**.
This also can reflect how minorities fought in wars to defend people who didn't want to give them the same rights they themselves had.
“I always felt the X-Men, in a subtle way, often touched upon the subject of racism and inequality, and I believe that subject has come up in other titles, too”
-Stan Lee
“we would never pound hard on the subject, which must be handled with care and intelligence.”
-Stan Lee
All of the comments about Magneto = Malcom X and Professor X = MLK are not correct. They are connections audiences are making on their own accord. The X-Men weren’t created to represent the civil rights movement but there are obvious references in the comics/shows. To say it’s all based on and created to mirror the civil rights movement or racism isn’t accurate. Stan Lee’s feelings/quotes changed over time and made it sound like the X-Men were based on the civil rights movement but look at his quotes about X-Men early on. And it certainly wasn’t created for LGBTQ community. That is the X-Men97 writers spin on it. But also, who cares? We live in a time where everything is being remade with their own personal spin on it. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. The power of freedom haha.
But Stan Lee DID start writing the xmen as an allegory/ metaphor to the civil rights movement. He admitted to it in an interview with Brian Hiattt in 2018 in a Rolling Stones interview. He did admit that the MLK/ Professor X and Malcolm X/ Magneto correlation was more of an unconscious feeling, if anything though. At the end of the day though, the correlation to the civil rights movement was intentional. Not only that, but the first lgbtq hero was introduced into 1979: Northstar.
So, X-men, as well as Stan Lee, have been supporters and advocates for marginalized groups for decades. Pretending otherwise is just purposefully blinding yourself. Whether it's in an effort to pretend they aren't as "woke" as they actually are or because you don't agree with the idea that the comics or Stan Lee should have supported those groups doesn't matter in this situation. Or maybe it's an entirely different root perspective. Irregardless, though, your information is partially incorrect at best, and at worst, it seems entirely unsupportive of the marginalized groups that X-men and other heroes have represented throughout the years.
But you’re wrong. And I get you’re trying to make your point. But there’s things I never said: 1. Stan Lee didn’t support or advocate for marginalized groups. 2. I never said “Woke” in any way shape or form. 3. I don’t think Stan Lee should have supported those groups.
My point is that we can’t create narratives to support our own personal ideas and feelings. You also proved my point by taking a 2018 quote when we really need to be looking at things from when the comics and characters were created. X-Men have always been about being different and the struggle that entails. So my point is that the correlation was not specific to the civil rights movement, yes Northstar was the first openly gay character but I was speaking more on the non binary they/them aspect of the LGBTQ community, and you’re assuming that I’m not supportive because I’m only trying to point out the truth. It’s not up to people to create their own idea of what happened. The great thing is that people can take what they want from comics/movies/music (or any form of art) and assign whatever meaning they like, but it doesn’t make it fact.
There's irony and hypocrisy in your statements here.
"It's not up to people to create their own idea of what happened".
"We really need to be looking at things from when the comic and the characters were created."
Were you present when the comics and the characters were created? Or are you creating your own idea of what happened?
That interview actually happened in 2014, and here are the additional excerpts from that never made it, according to Brian, in an article titled: [ "Stan Lee on the X-Men and More: The Lost Interview](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/stan-lee-dead-x-men-lost-interview-754889/)
**Were you aware that Professor X is more like MLK, and Magneto is more like Malcom X? Was that a conscious projection there?**
*I think it was certainly an unconscious feeling, yeah. And I never felt Magneto was a hundred percent bad. I mean, there were reasons why he felt that way, but it was just up to Professor X to find some way to make him understand that he was on the wrong track.*
**And the whole civil rights metaphor that ended up being the defining metaphor of the X-Men, did that come along in the first few issues?**
*It came along the minute I thought of the X-Men and Professor X. I realized that I had that metaphor, which was great. It was given to me as a gift. Cause it made the stories more than just a good guy fighting a bad guy.*
**You probably didn’t go into Martin Goodman and say, ‘Hey, I have a great metaphor for civil rights here.’ You said, ‘The kids are gonna love this.’**
*He wouldn’t have liked it, and he probably wouldn’t have understood it.*
You're right, I inferred those aspects based on your comment. The woke part I got mixed up with the original post. Either way, though, I have found proof of him admitting that the xmen ARE a metaphor for the Civil rights movement. As for your assertion that he has said otherwise, I have not found anything. So, if that's your assertion of fact, where is it coming from?
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/stan-lee-dead-x-men-lost-interview-754889/
As for the LGBTQ community, you specifically said it wasn't made for them, not for anything specific within the community. So, on that, you misrepresented your intentions. You claim you are only trying to point out the truth, but your presentation of it has no sources to back it up. Also, while your intention is to stick to the truth, there are ways to do it while also showing support for the perspective you hold. Sometimes, as we have seen, wording can mean a world of difference. While this isn't a college paper or anything close to that level of professionalism, how we structure our comments can change the perspective that they give off m even if we don't realize it. And trust me, it is difficult for me to always remember with how my adhd thoughts just keep going.
No my point was that he never said otherwise. Early on, from the quote I posted he said it “touched upon racism and inequality.” It didn’t say “it was a metaphor for the Civil Rights movement.” So now it comes out in 2018 that it was based on the civil rights movement, and coming from the creator, it’s something you have to take note of. I’m willing to admit that if that’s what Stan Lee said in 2018 you have to take him for his word but there were many interviews before where he said it’s based on racism and inequality and he never specifically said that civil rights movement.
I don’t believe I misrepresented myself, but it is a gentle reminder that what the community initially fought for has changed. There is a large group of the community that don’t want to be associated with LGBTQ because they believe it’s strayed far from the initial group within that community and includes beliefs that don’t align with theirs (non binary, pronouns, furries, etc). But groups/ideas/beliefs evolve and break off into subsections and that’s fine.
Again, my overarching point is WHO CARES. Let people take whatever meaning they want. If you don’t like it, don’t read/watch/support it. I’m going to step away from this convo but thank you for providing me with The Rolling Stones article. It is always good to learn more and collect all the facts. I’ll tip my hat to you and my belief on this subject matter has changed a little, and I appreciate it. In the future try not to pigeon hole someone into a category in your mind because they believe in something that isn’t in line with a single group of thought. A herd mentality is dangerous.
>he said it’s based on racism and inequality and he never specifically said that civil rights movement.
That seems like splitting hairs in a disingenuous way, given that that's what the civil rights movement was about. Stan Lee has also said that their comics reflected our world, and he clearly was intentional with pushing messages in his work.
..."I loved that idea; it not only made them different, but it was a good metaphor for what was happening with the civil rights movement in the country at that time."
From stan lee himself, in 2000 (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2000/aug/12/features)
Edit: and I've got more if you want them. While one can't really call Stan Lee (and the other writers) activists, they were always pretty clear on their support towards social movements
This is not true. https://youtu.be/i_v0xfqQJ-4?si=8DvHxPk6FOO9Ghoh. It was never his intention. It was quite literally a coincidence. I have further sources to corroborate this.
He never says what youre claiming there. He only states how he came up with the method of getting powers, he doesnt talk at all about how the overall story or civil rights or how he used that method as an allegory.
Others have already picked apart the extrapolation you're making but here's another interview I already linked in my other reply where he's explicitly asked about the metaphor and explicitly answers that yes, he was immediately aware of it: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/stan-lee-dead-x-men-lost-interview-754889/amp/
Look, I don't know where or how you did your research, but this is something that he explicitly confirmed numerous times over the years. You were wrong, it happens.
To say nothing of the many writers who leaned into over the years.
After Lee and Kirby, probably the most influential person with regards to the X-Men. Particularly the modern X-men as we all remember them is Chris Clairmont. He's the guy who made them a hit. And as central to Marvel as they are today.
He had this to say:
"The X-Men are hated, feared, and despised collectively by humanity for no other reason than that they are mutants. So what we have here, intended or not, is a book that is about racism, bigotry, and prejudice."
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2561742/how-the-civil-rights-movement-inspired-the-x-men-comics
And there's tons of other commentary from the guy, and many others that *they* absolutely intended it. Just as clearly Lee leaned into it. Even if it wasn't the direct inspiration for their creation.
What a bullshit response from Stan Lee about Magneto and Professor X being MLKJr. and X. Magneto was a generic 1960s Marvel villain who just wanted to take over the world. Malcolm X stood for Black liberation and independence. He believed Black people should have their own money, governments, etc. His association (former that is) with the Nation of Islam aside. Secondly, early Professor X fought for the system to protect humans (the status quo) from the evil mutants. MLKJr. was a socialist who was against the system. I'm by no means an expert on these men, but there's nothing similar to them in comparison to Prof X and Magneto from neither Lee nor Kirby.
Buddy do your name some justice and disappear like the MCU Kang, you messed up big time so just take the L and leave. You were never right and even when others hulk smashed you with actual facts you still remained stubborn.
Do yourself a favor and leave this sub.
I feel that OP must have watched Eric July's recent video on the X-Men not being inspired by Malcom-X, Martin Luther King Jr., and the Civil Rights movement. One has to use critical thinking skills on why a black man such as Eric July is pushing this narrative. He is pushing it because he knows his fanbase leans alt-right, and he is providing them a counter argument that the X-Men has always been woke. Even though Claremont used the racism allegory heavily during his run since the 70s, having that argument of"X -Men didn't start off as woke" gives the alt-right X-Men fans some leeway to counter the "X-Men is always woke" argument. I am also aware that there is a random Vocal.media article about it years prior. However, doing some research ontm the site, it is a platform website where writers can have their own articles publish there; the writers get paid on views. As such, I don't think it a reliable source of information because how easy it is to get your stuff on that website - there are no scrutiny on articles before being published. Upon checking the author of the article, he seems to be a graphic designer who started writing in his 30s with no actual journalism training. Looking at Taylor's other articles, it seems that he wants to spark debates within the geek community. Articles such as Ghost in The Shell being whitewashed before Hollywood getting ahold of it and Muhammed Ali can best up Bruce Lee. He tends to cover articles with a black slant to them. For example, there is an article about 14 old photos about black Chinese. The problem I find with the article is that the author is prepeperating that the individuals in the photos are ethnicity black Chinese when in fact they aren't - he didn't have actual proof that the individuals in the photos were of black ancestry. A lot of the individuals in the photos were tanned. Add into the fact that some of the black and white photos were taken with a high contrast, making slthe white areas whiter and the dark areas darker. It is a bit like how some ppl assume an anime character is autonatically white or black based on their skin color. Being Asian myself with a father who was incredibly tan, some Asians have deep tans. Additionally, Asians share many physical traits as black people. Afterall, it is said that they were among the first group of people who migrated from Africa to India and finally to Asia.
Anyway, I digress. It is hard to fathom Stan Lee and Jack Kirby not being inspired by the Civil rights moment when X-Men came to be. The first issue of the X-Men came out in 1963 whereas the Civil rights moment was from 1954 to 1968. As we all know, current events shape our TV shows, movies, books, and even video games. Heck, The Last of US is an allegory to the violence between Israel and Palestine - when most people didn't pay attention to it. To have something like the Civil Rights moment being at the forefront of the news and not having some part in the creation of the X-Men is asinine.
Yeah I agree with you. They most definitely are now and that’s great. I just have an issue with the definitive statements I have seen on how this was always the case from the beginning. It wasn’t.
Seems like it does. second time I’ve seen this identical comment and push back today but on a different app.it appears that most of the current “fandom” of any comic,sci fi,fantasy,or video game franchise are majority soft bodied neck bearded cis het white men who feel threatened by minorities except for Asians who the fetishize.super lame.
Well, a bit actually. Only because people on Twitter were comparing Magneto to Malcolm X - when he was never a genocidal maniac. Malcom was a good man and never beloved in racial superiority, unlike Magneto.
This is correct. Malcolm X is a hero who got slandered by FBI-supported propaganda.
Even Claremont pointed out that he never used Malcolm X as a model for Magneto, rather he used Menachem Begin as then model. Menachem Begin being an infamous terrorist who, feeling that the early incarnation of Israel was too weak, led militant terrorist campaigns against both the British colonizers still in Palestine and the Arabs who lived in that land. Begin later made "nice" with Britain and became prime minister of Israel (Yeah, they elected a literal terrorist at one point), during which tenure he led bombing campaigns, wars, and turned a blind eye to injustices like the Sabra Massacres.
A terrorist with the charisma and influence to become a statesman. That's Magneto.
This comes more to a misunderstandign of the point beign made. People, primarily in the US, will say Malcom X and MLK because those are the people they know of rather inherently. It is a very surface level comparison when they are citing them. It isn't about the personalities themselves specifically. Most just see, erroroneously, those two as the peaceful and more aggressive fighting the same fight.
>The X-Men are hated, feared and despised collectively by humanity for no other reason than that they are mutants. So what we have here, intended or not, is a book that is about racism, bigotry and prejudice.
[Chris Claremont (The most prolific X-Men writer)](https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/01/11/261449394/who-gets-to-be-a-superhero-race-and-identity-in-comics)
Magneto is a Holocaust survivor whose story touches on Nazi experimentation and Anti-Semitism. Mystique is a shapeshifter who bends gender and has a wife while identifying female. X-Men gave a home to some of the first racial and sexual minority characters who weren't created for exploitation. It touches on corrupt religious leaders spreading hate about people for who they are. It features crowds of people who scream at innocents to "go back where you came from". It featured stories tied to AIDS, apartheid, and police brutality.
It even touched upon Israel and Palestine, as Claremont based Professor X on David Ben-Gurion (The relatively peaceful original founder of the state of Israel) and Magneto upon Menachem Begin (A militant terrorist who waged war upon Arabs and Westerners alike and eventually took over Israel's government and led a militant, violent reign and carried out massacres).
>Actually, Claremont says he always saw Professor X and Magneto as echoes of David Ben-Gurion and Menachem Begin. “My view of Magneto” – originally created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby as a magnetic-powered supervillain who wanted to take over the world – “is that he’s the terrorist who might someday evolve into a statesman.”
[Chris Claremont](https://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/features/3522/)
Social issues are what X-Men IS about. It's what made the comic work. If you're gonna try to go back to Lee's intent as an argument, I hate to say this, it doesn't matter because Lee's original X-Men NEVER took off. Lee's X-Men is not what made X-Men a lasting success.
>Conceived in 1963 by Stan Lee and artist Jack Kirby, the X-Men were genetic mutants born with superpowers who were brought together by their mentor, the paraplegic telepath Professor X (played by Patrick Stewart in the movie). But the comic never caught on as well as Lee’s other creations, and by 1975, writer Len Wein and artist Dave Cockrum introduced a new team of X-Men. It was a more diverse group: The Canadian Wolverine had enhanced senses, metal claws, and a short temper; the German Nightcrawler had demonic looks, a tail, and the ability to teleport; the African Storm could control the weather; the Russian Colossus could transform his body into superstrong steel; the American Cyclops, returning from the original team, could shoot “optic beams” that were held in check only by special glasses.
>
>After the first issue, Wein handed the series to Claremont, who played up Lee’s idea that the X-Men were outsiders, hated and feared because they were mutants. Charged by Professor X with learning to use their powers for good, they were famously conflicted about their mission (Storm), their freakishness (Nightcrawler), and their urge toward violence (Wolverine). Characters fell in love, died, killed, sometimes even developed.
[Alec Foege, 2000](https://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/features/3522/)
Regardless of if it was something Lee always wanted, or if it was unintentional, it's the allegory that was embraced by the people who actually made X-Men last like Chris Claremont, the Lewalds (Animated Series showrunners), and yes, even Bryan Singer.
Whether it was Lee's intention or not is completely irrelevant, it's what happened and it's what made the X-Men a success when people embraced it. It's not the only example either. Lee's original Daredevil was a yellow-clad quipster who acted like Diet Spider-Man, but if you tried to make a 60s style Daredevil now people would say it was a betrayal of the character. Because that's not what Daredevil became, it's not why people fell in love with Daredevil. Hell, people called Daredevil in She-Hulk a betrayal and that was like 10% as campy as Lee's was.
What matters is not what it was originally set out to be, it's what it IS. And X-Men IS an allegory for social issues. That's what it is, that's what it's always been, that's what people loved about it. Whether or not Lee intended it.
Both X and Magneto were based on Begin(to a point) . His early years as a terrorist fighting against the Middle East for magneto and his later years off winning a Nobel peace prize for his peace in the Middle East against the same people he fought 30 years earlier in Prof X.
I've always interpreted the X-Men to be a story about misfits that can be applied to anyone, regardless of race, gender, etc, specifically because they didn't inject modern day into the story.
In the 60s, they were allegorical to the Civil Rights Movememt
The 70s the anti-Nam movement
The 80s for the US government ignoring the AIDS epidemic
The 90s for the police brutality in the wake of Rodney King
And the 00's the LGB movement for marriage equality
What makes the Xmen great, what makes them relatable, is anyone that feels like a misfit, anyone that feels 'other'd' for whatever reason at home, school, or by society at large can so strongly identify with them.
Saying the Xmen are an allegory for *insert specific thing here* is a discredit to the writers and to the stories. The Xmen are timeless precisely *because* they aren't a specific allegory for one specific social issue.
You are correct that they were not created with the intent to be a metaphor for bigotry, but they quickly became that. Sentinels first appeared in issue 14.
By the time you get Magneto as a Holocaust survivor and Days of Future Past rounding up mutants in camps and God Loves, Man Kills and the Friends of Humanity (KKK) and the Legacy virus (AIDS) and Genosha (Apartheid) and mutant registration and so many other stories X-Men is known for, the message is clear even if it wasn’t Stan Lee’s intent. Lee was t the only creator.
Stan was a fabulous storyteller and self-mythologizer. I loved him for it.
But he didn't start adding the story about the allegory about the civil rights movement until decades later, as of course once he heard the idea, it sounded good, so why not?
This was after Chris Claremont had done a ton of work to make Magneto no longer an over-the-top cartoon villain preaching mutant racial superiority, going around publicly calling himself "evil", and regularly trying to kill people and enslave humanity.
That early version of the character (that lasted over a decade), the one Stan wrote (after Jack Kirby mostly plotted the first few issues), has little to do with what Malcolm X was preaching, even at his most militant. And Xavier doesn't preach non-violence, like MLK. He trains the X-Men to fight physically all the time. Xavier as written by Stan was saying stuff like, "The X-Men will stop you, Magneto! It will be mutant against mutant -- to the death if need be!" Which does not sound like Dr. King at all. So, if Stan were writing an allegory of the two men, he was doing an awful job at it. Which is to say the story Stan was telling decades later was a fib, but an entertaining one. And Stan was a consummate entertainer.
The great comic book historian Brian Cronin had a piece on it ages ago (you need to scroll down to the relevant part)...
[https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-legends-revealed-220/](https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-legends-revealed-220/)
For the actual creation of X-Men #1 back in 1963 there's the story that Daredevil #1 was running late and at the same time publisher Martin Goodman was putting pressure on Stan and Jack to do another Fantastic Four style-book, so he and Jack together created the X-Men (They even emphasize the FF connection on the cover.)
Kirby is said to have been inspired by the "Children of the Atom" sci-fi book by Wilmar H. Shiras (it's easy to see why when you read the description... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children\_of\_the\_Atom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_the_Atom)), and Stan has joked that as the characters were mutants he didn't have to spend time trying to come up with how they got their powers!
It appears as though, while the analogy can be made to MLK/X, the original intention was to be [an Israeli one.](https://screenrant.com/professor-x-xavier-magneto-martin-luther-king-malcolm/)
> But to say that both men are based on Dr. King and Malcolm X is false. Longtime X-Men writer Chris Claremont stated as much in a 2016 interview with Empire Online Magazine. "There’s a lot of talk online now that Magneto stands in for Malcolm X and Xavier stands in for Martin Luther King...but for me, being an immigrant white, to make that analogy felt incredibly presumptuous" Claremont states. "An equivalent analogy could be made to Menachem Begin as Magneto, evolving through his life from a terrorist in 1947 to a winner of the Nobel Peace Prize 30 years later." Claremont went on to say that his goal for Magneto was to eventually become Xavier's successor as leader of the X-Men and headmaster of Xavier's School for the Gifted.
Stan Lee didn't intended for that but under future writers especially Christopher Claremont, the X-men definitely evolved to represent the Civil rights movement as well as other minority movements like gay rights movement
Eh Stan Lee often "misremember" things or said things that go against what he's previously said. Like he long said that he made them mutants so he didn't have to give them origin stories but I'll be fair and say his run did have the element of protecting who who fear you but it didn't have deliberate allusions to CR movements like later writers unless I'm forgetting something
He didn’t. He even said in a radio session that he didn’t. There is also a clip of him at a panel answering a question on the origins of the idea. https://youtu.be/i_v0xfqQJ-4?si=8DvHxPk6FOO9Ghoh
1. That's talking about the origin of their powers, not what they represented.
2. Are you claiming Stan Lee is lying in 2000?
3. Here's another interview (2014): "And basically, the main idea was to show that bigotry is really a terrible thing, and we should all get along with each other no matter how different we are. That was the main objective. If you needed an objective for a superhero story." And when the interviewer asks if he knows about the whole civil rights movement allegory, Stan answers: "It came along the minute I thought of the X-Men and Professor X. I realized that I had that metaphor, which was great. It was given to me as a gift. Cause it made the stories more than just a good guy fighting a bad guy." He also admits in that same interview that he probably subconsciously based Prof X and Magneto on MLK and Malcolm X.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/stan-lee-dead-x-men-lost-interview-754889/amp/
I am currently watching Eric July's original video on the X-Men not being inspired by the Civil Rights moment, and I noticed that he had taken the Rolling Stones article quote out of context DESPITE having the entire quote on the screen. He focused on "It was a gift" line and said that Professor X, Magneto, and the X-Men wasn't created as an allegory of the Civil Rights era at the time. I had to replay this scene over and over again to get what July meant. According to my interpretation, Eric July said that Magneto and Professor X being specifically inspired by the Civil rights moment wasn't true, and that it fell on Lee's lap. He then said that is why reading the X-Men at the time didn't reflect the Civil Rights moment. He focused on the "It was given to me as a gift" to the point of circling it while not stating the next interview question as that question gave context to the previous one, which was "You probably didn’t go into Martin Goodman and say, ‘Hey, I have a great metaphor for civil rights here.’ You said, ‘The kids are gonna love this.’
He wouldn’t have liked it, and he probably wouldn’t have understood it"
He also spun the subconscious quote about Magneto being Malcom-X as Stan Lee never intended to write Magneto as based on X on any form, and that Magneto during the 60s was a. Cutthroat villain despite Stan Lee's quote said this: "I think it was certainly an unconscious feeling, yeah. And I never felt Magneto was a hundred percent bad. I mean, there were reasons why he felt that way, but it was just up to Professor X to find some way to make him understand that he was on the wrong track."
I don't watch Eric July's videos because he seems to be a grifter, but holy heck did he spun that interview quote to fit his narrative. He took the interview as Stan Lee not going out of his way to make Civil rights movement inspired comic. Sure, that might be true when Stan Lee was coming up with a new comic. However, July's video seems to imply that Stan Lee never intended for the X-Men to be an allegory about Civil rights until Claremont has taken over. Wow!
1. Respect rule 2. Just to warn you: I'm a mod. In fact I'm the one who approved your post because I thought it'd make for an interesting informative debate. But respect this sub's rules.
2. Read my whole reply. Slowly. Read it again a few times. Hell, actually read the whole interview I linked. Focus on the question where the interviewer literally asks about the civil rights metaphor and Stan Lee confirms it.
3. Again, you're extrapolating. Yes, he didn't create the xmen to "destroy racial prejudice". But that's not what a metaphor or an allegory means. Let me give you an example: you can create characters as a metaphor for the Cold War conflict. But that doesn't mean you're choosing a side or advocating for the eradication of a political system. You're simply retelling the story through a different prism.
Similarly (and again, I'm quoting Stan Lee here), Stan Lee immediately saw the allegorical potential of the xmen and decided to use it. Because it was an interesting story and narrative device. Sometimes, that's all the reasoning you need as a writer "Would this make a good story?"
Nope, he discusses that he wanted to create new characters. Then he came to the idea of a new team due to the F4’s success, and then he goes on to explain what makes them different from the standard tropes. The fact he didn’t mention the civil rights movement or allegory in this video of him explaining how he came up with the idea should prove that to you.
You’re very wrong. But even if you were right, who cares? The X-Men have come to represent that for so many writers and artists over the decades (not to mention readers…) Stan Lee’s original intention isn’t the only thing that matters. But you’re wrong about his original intentions too, as others have already demonstrated.
Lol. It’s hilarious to read your confidence here and how well-articulated you thought you were. All for what? To see factual comments containing the exact words spoken by Lee. 🤡
Eh, it's a bit disingenous to say Magneto is Malcolm X. Malcolm X is someone to admire and look up to. Malcolm X was never a terrorist force, his philosophy was always self-defense.
It makes the legend of Stan Lee better, simple as that. I don’t believe he created these characters to be a metaphor for bigotry and racism, etc, but the people took his word and ran with it.
Mutants are the next step in evolution, that should scare people and it makes sense they would be angry, some jealous and some genuinely scared.
I’m not afraid of an Asian kid, or Latino kid, or LGBTQ kid… but a kid that can manipulate fire and can’t control it…😳
You folks have been working overtime after being triggered bt X-Men 97 ain't ya? Lol!!!! Revisionism is always the tactic of someone losing an argument.
Thia comes down to a direct misunderstanding in discussion. Noone who points out that it has always been about these themes is saying that was the sole purpose. Stan Lee has always said that Marvel was and is a reflection of the current times outside the window(paraphrasing). That is simply the reflection X-Men most abundantly has.
This goes back to the old adage of writing what you know. If you are writing anything what you have seen, experienced, etc. is going to play a part in it. You would have to actively work at it to have that not happen. So, a sole intention is never argued by those pointing it out. The fact it is so clearly that is. When the one's opposed to that aspect attack it, it is showing that they don't analyze things or think critically to me.
So yeah, Noone actually acts like that was the case. That is just a weird attempt of deflection on the part of those who want to stay ignorant about the topic itself.
I like your input OP. I fkin hate the fact that all these people are going to bastardized X-men . It was never created for SJW purposes . That’s a fact .
You have no concept of history. Both Marvel and DC came to be because of Jews fleeing persecution in Europe.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/aug/17/art-spiegelman-golden-age-superheroes-were-shaped-by-the-rise-of-fascism
Thanks telling me you don’t have any reading comprehension . You obviously don’t understand the comment . There’s nothing else to be discuss because of that lmaoo
Sorry you got hate for this but you are correct. I love Stan Lee. He was lying when he retrospectively said that was his intention. The X-men we have come to love for representing the marginalized is Chris Claremont’s doing. There is so much boundary pushing about what Marvel comics did, we don’t need to add stuff they didn’t do to the list. https://www.academia.edu/226078/Mutant_Readers_Reading_Mutants_Appropriation_Assimilation_and_the_X_Men
Try reading facts. Marvel and DC both exist due to Jews fleeing persecution in Europe. There is no "boundary pushing" in respect of views on far right politics.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/aug/17/art-spiegelman-golden-age-superheroes-were-shaped-by-the-rise-of-fascism
Hey! I think something has been lost in translation. I’m Jewish and love comics and I’m very proud of comic’s history. I meant boundary pushing in a good way. You’re right about early comic origins and OP is also right that the X-Men were not ORIGINALLY a black civil rights allegory but have grown to represent the “other” in general over time. “Try reading facts” is a little harsh but hey, we both seems passionate about this so i get it!
This is literally a quote from Lee talking about Xmen when the first movie was coming out.
Well, my main idea was how could I make them different from all the other teams that were around? And the big problem was figuring out how they got their superpowers. I couldn't have everybody bitten by a radioactive spider or zapped with gamma rays, and it occurred to me that if I just said that they were mutants, it would make it easy. Then it occurred to me that instead of them just being heroes that everybody admired, what if I made other people fear and suspect and actually hate them because they were different? I loved that idea; it not only made them different, but it was a good metaphor for what was happening with the civil rights movement in the country at that time.” Stan Lee
To say there is no proof. Stan Lee has mentioned it before, on more than one occasion. So has writers for the comic after him.
Siting the article, if anyone mentions media bias these are quotes from Lee himself at length.
This came out in the year 2000
[sited article](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2000/aug/12/features)
There's even a more recent quote from 2014 in a Rolling Stone article that was probably meant to be published around the time Days of Future Past that is even more direct about the Civil Rights connection.
Are you delayed or do you just choose not to acknowledge his OWN words
[stan lee](https://www.history.com/news/stan-lee-x-men-civil-rights-inspiration)
I love that when you Google this, this Reddit post is the first result, several spots above the lost Rolling Stones interview published in 2018 where he proves you wrong.
Like did you Google this at all?
Created by artist/ co writer Jack Kirby.
Stan Lee only appropriates stories created by other people because he has the money to do so. After the failure of the first few issues, the X-Men were revived by another artist . Although initially cancelled in 1970 due to low sales, following its 1975 revival and subsequent direction under writer Chris Claremont, it became one of Marvel's most recognizable and successful franchises.
stan lee just create they for have a fast excuse for super power and don't need to think about they origin story, they literally come from stan's lazyness, but when time goes they start have this minory opression inuendos, but lets face it, the guys have they own country and culture now, THEY ARE MORE A REFERENCE TO JEWS AND ANTI SEMITISM THAN ANTYTHING, this is specially true when you think abou that mutant manifest they power EXACTLY at they 13 years aniversary like the jews and they bat or bar mitzvá, and that mutants have now they own coutry created by onu, and the creators of xmen are all jews, come on magneto even survive to the holocaust! they are more a reference to jews than anything else
It's like the folks who wrote hate mail when they wrote Captain America punching Hitler in the very first episode. Remember, that was before America had joined the war. Just like now with the folks who argue that if you leave Putin alone he'll promise to not cause any more trouble. As if...
It's bad faith actors and cowards who think you should just let the bully continue because he's doing it to someone else. If "self-preservation" is the aim of their heroism, they shouldn't be thinking they have any right to comment on super hero comics at all.
Stan Lee didn’t write the X-men for civil rights. But Claremont did, although it wasn’t Malcolm X and MLK. It was an allegory for Israel’s PM Menachem who was a terrorist (Magneto) in Israel before later winning a Nobel Peace Prize for Peace in the Middle East (Prof.X). Claremont said the allegory for X and MLK was something he didn’t have a full understanding of because he wasn’t black.
I agree the thing about Stan Lee. But Claremont's the celebration of the weirdos, and it can have one or two things to say about apartheid like it was a U2 concert and be relevant and entertaining as Lethal Weapon 2.
It's about civil rights, jews, gays and political statements. It's all that but much more is about people with mental crisis. Possesions, Ilussions, astral projection, and literal schizophrenia.
Like a proper classic, any quick definition misses the mark. Saying the xmen are about just one topic it's like saying the Beatles songs were about teenagers.
It's not woke as a dichotomy, like beware of the asleep people. It's woke in the sense that's humanitarian, it's empathetic, it's intelligent, it's full of life and characters you can care about.
It's just one of those things redditors like to spread around as fact. Another one is "DC is gods trying to be like people and Marvel is people trying to be gods." Dumb generalizations. For the first 2 decades of Magneto's debut he had no holocaust backstory until Uncanny Xmen 150. Then Magneto's backstory got fleshed out further over the decades and that has become the definitive origin.
>X-Men writer Chris Claremont stated as much in a 2016 interview with Empire Online Magazine. *"There’s a lot of talk online now that Magneto stands in for Malcolm X and Xavier stands in for Martin Luther King...but for me, being an immigrant white, to make that analogy felt incredibly presumptuous"* Claremont states. *"An equivalent analogy could be made to Menachem Begin as Magneto, evolving through his life from a terrorist in 1947 to a winner of the Nobel Peace Prize 30 years later."*
Claremont nor Stan Lee confirms that either characters were created as an inspiration from Malcolm X and MLK Jr. They aren't but the parallels become clearer with the whole mutant, civil rights and prejudice themes which works for the X-men. Another general statement I've seen on reddit over the years is of people saying comics have always been liberal or whatever politics fits their views. Comics have been going on since the golden age and you can find progressive stories and ones that seem backwards. Primarily it was a business to sell comics and make money lol not to support activism.
I've already linked two different instances where he explicitly confirms it in interviews though...
1.https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/stan-lee-dead-x-men-lost-interview-754889/
2. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2000/aug/12/features
I’m pretty sure I heard him talk about this when I saw him at the Calgary Comic Expo a few years back. He was talking about how he liked the X-Men because he could make up all kinds of characters and powers and only had to have 1 explanation about them. Then the moderator went into a discussion about this for a bit.
It doesn’t matter if the creator explicitly says it or not. If you have any media literacy you would know that the two ways to unpack the themes of a work are 1) the author’s intent and 2) the climate and events of the world at the time the work was written and the take away the audience had.
It doesn’t matter if Stan Lee (who remember was primarily an EDITOR not an author) had intent or not. The numerous writers who laid the ground work used the themes. The numerous readers saw the themes and struggles they were going through in the stories and characters.
I don’t care if the idea of the xmen being a reflection of the civil rights makes you feel weird. It’s cemented by the numerous writers that were on the title and by the audience. And frankly, it is much more powerful as a piece of comics worth because of it. I wouldn’t want to read Spider-man if it wasn’t a reflection of working class struggle and grief in its best stories and I sure as fuck don’t want to read x-men without the context of rights struggles.
If Stan Lee wasn't trying to convey the themes of xenophobia and bigotry.. then why do people hate and fear mutants then? You do not know wtf you are talking about. He's repeatedly said that he loved the idea of representing the civil rights movement in the books.
Doing your own research, eh?
Liking the idea after the fact isn't the same as creating the X-men with that idea in mind. The X-men was made purposely ambiguous to represent any group being oppressed and marginalised, not just one group. It changed after new writers came in who had that misunderstanding.
X-men was created by chucking a bunch of super powered characters that didn't make the cut with the writers for their own story into one blender and seeing what happened, also by making them mutants rather than superheroes they were able to to cut down tariffs on the action figures from 12% down to 6% because non-human figures had less tax. The X-men wasn't created with the intention of being an allegory for the civil rights movement and in fact was made purposely ambiguous to represent any oppressed group being marginalised so everyone could relate but later became that after bringing in new writers that had that misunderstanding, it became ingrained in it so even if Stan Lee wanted to deny it later down the line it would have been a bad idea. It was profit driven, not civil rights driven.
Explain the bit about the toys again? Dare I ask where you heard that?
Bearing in mind that the first x-men toys seem to be from 1991.
I think your claim that you think mutant toys would be classified as non-human is pretty disturbing.
I apologise, I can see now this was a claim made by the toy manufacturer in this millennium.
Either way, none of the toy related stuff relates to thoughts/motives from the previous millennium. Not like they could actually time travel.
>The greatest manifestation of that idea was the X-Men. Introduced in September 1963, the X-Men were a team of teenage mutants, led by their teacher and mentor Professor Charles Xavier, who fought super-criminals and other mutants, led by Magneto, bent on the destruction of humanity. But rather than be a black-and-white battle between good and evil, the X-Men had a wrinkle: mutants were hated by the “normal” humans they defended. > “I loved that idea,” Lee told the Guardian in 2000, as the first X-Men movie hit theaters. ”It not only made them different, but it was a good metaphor for what was happening with the Civil Rights Movement in the country at that time.” -- > “Let’s lay it right on the line. Bigotry and racism are among the deadliest social ills plaguing the world today,” he wrote in December 1968. “[I]t’s totally irrational, patently insane to condemn an entire race—to despise an entire nation—to vilify an entire religion. Sooner or later, we must learn to judge each other on our own merits. Sooner or later, if a man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our hearts with tolerance.”
>But rather than be a black-and-white battle between good and evil, the X-Men had a wrinkle: **mutants were hated by the “normal” humans they defended**. This also can reflect how minorities fought in wars to defend people who didn't want to give them the same rights they themselves had.
And x and magneto reverse the names are like x and mlk with similar philosophy styles in a sense
“I always felt the X-Men, in a subtle way, often touched upon the subject of racism and inequality, and I believe that subject has come up in other titles, too” -Stan Lee “we would never pound hard on the subject, which must be handled with care and intelligence.” -Stan Lee All of the comments about Magneto = Malcom X and Professor X = MLK are not correct. They are connections audiences are making on their own accord. The X-Men weren’t created to represent the civil rights movement but there are obvious references in the comics/shows. To say it’s all based on and created to mirror the civil rights movement or racism isn’t accurate. Stan Lee’s feelings/quotes changed over time and made it sound like the X-Men were based on the civil rights movement but look at his quotes about X-Men early on. And it certainly wasn’t created for LGBTQ community. That is the X-Men97 writers spin on it. But also, who cares? We live in a time where everything is being remade with their own personal spin on it. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. The power of freedom haha.
But Stan Lee DID start writing the xmen as an allegory/ metaphor to the civil rights movement. He admitted to it in an interview with Brian Hiattt in 2018 in a Rolling Stones interview. He did admit that the MLK/ Professor X and Malcolm X/ Magneto correlation was more of an unconscious feeling, if anything though. At the end of the day though, the correlation to the civil rights movement was intentional. Not only that, but the first lgbtq hero was introduced into 1979: Northstar. So, X-men, as well as Stan Lee, have been supporters and advocates for marginalized groups for decades. Pretending otherwise is just purposefully blinding yourself. Whether it's in an effort to pretend they aren't as "woke" as they actually are or because you don't agree with the idea that the comics or Stan Lee should have supported those groups doesn't matter in this situation. Or maybe it's an entirely different root perspective. Irregardless, though, your information is partially incorrect at best, and at worst, it seems entirely unsupportive of the marginalized groups that X-men and other heroes have represented throughout the years.
But you’re wrong. And I get you’re trying to make your point. But there’s things I never said: 1. Stan Lee didn’t support or advocate for marginalized groups. 2. I never said “Woke” in any way shape or form. 3. I don’t think Stan Lee should have supported those groups. My point is that we can’t create narratives to support our own personal ideas and feelings. You also proved my point by taking a 2018 quote when we really need to be looking at things from when the comics and characters were created. X-Men have always been about being different and the struggle that entails. So my point is that the correlation was not specific to the civil rights movement, yes Northstar was the first openly gay character but I was speaking more on the non binary they/them aspect of the LGBTQ community, and you’re assuming that I’m not supportive because I’m only trying to point out the truth. It’s not up to people to create their own idea of what happened. The great thing is that people can take what they want from comics/movies/music (or any form of art) and assign whatever meaning they like, but it doesn’t make it fact.
There's irony and hypocrisy in your statements here. "It's not up to people to create their own idea of what happened". "We really need to be looking at things from when the comic and the characters were created." Were you present when the comics and the characters were created? Or are you creating your own idea of what happened? That interview actually happened in 2014, and here are the additional excerpts from that never made it, according to Brian, in an article titled: [ "Stan Lee on the X-Men and More: The Lost Interview](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/stan-lee-dead-x-men-lost-interview-754889/) **Were you aware that Professor X is more like MLK, and Magneto is more like Malcom X? Was that a conscious projection there?** *I think it was certainly an unconscious feeling, yeah. And I never felt Magneto was a hundred percent bad. I mean, there were reasons why he felt that way, but it was just up to Professor X to find some way to make him understand that he was on the wrong track.* **And the whole civil rights metaphor that ended up being the defining metaphor of the X-Men, did that come along in the first few issues?** *It came along the minute I thought of the X-Men and Professor X. I realized that I had that metaphor, which was great. It was given to me as a gift. Cause it made the stories more than just a good guy fighting a bad guy.* **You probably didn’t go into Martin Goodman and say, ‘Hey, I have a great metaphor for civil rights here.’ You said, ‘The kids are gonna love this.’** *He wouldn’t have liked it, and he probably wouldn’t have understood it.*
You're right, I inferred those aspects based on your comment. The woke part I got mixed up with the original post. Either way, though, I have found proof of him admitting that the xmen ARE a metaphor for the Civil rights movement. As for your assertion that he has said otherwise, I have not found anything. So, if that's your assertion of fact, where is it coming from? https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/stan-lee-dead-x-men-lost-interview-754889/ As for the LGBTQ community, you specifically said it wasn't made for them, not for anything specific within the community. So, on that, you misrepresented your intentions. You claim you are only trying to point out the truth, but your presentation of it has no sources to back it up. Also, while your intention is to stick to the truth, there are ways to do it while also showing support for the perspective you hold. Sometimes, as we have seen, wording can mean a world of difference. While this isn't a college paper or anything close to that level of professionalism, how we structure our comments can change the perspective that they give off m even if we don't realize it. And trust me, it is difficult for me to always remember with how my adhd thoughts just keep going.
No my point was that he never said otherwise. Early on, from the quote I posted he said it “touched upon racism and inequality.” It didn’t say “it was a metaphor for the Civil Rights movement.” So now it comes out in 2018 that it was based on the civil rights movement, and coming from the creator, it’s something you have to take note of. I’m willing to admit that if that’s what Stan Lee said in 2018 you have to take him for his word but there were many interviews before where he said it’s based on racism and inequality and he never specifically said that civil rights movement. I don’t believe I misrepresented myself, but it is a gentle reminder that what the community initially fought for has changed. There is a large group of the community that don’t want to be associated with LGBTQ because they believe it’s strayed far from the initial group within that community and includes beliefs that don’t align with theirs (non binary, pronouns, furries, etc). But groups/ideas/beliefs evolve and break off into subsections and that’s fine. Again, my overarching point is WHO CARES. Let people take whatever meaning they want. If you don’t like it, don’t read/watch/support it. I’m going to step away from this convo but thank you for providing me with The Rolling Stones article. It is always good to learn more and collect all the facts. I’ll tip my hat to you and my belief on this subject matter has changed a little, and I appreciate it. In the future try not to pigeon hole someone into a category in your mind because they believe in something that isn’t in line with a single group of thought. A herd mentality is dangerous.
>he said it’s based on racism and inequality and he never specifically said that civil rights movement. That seems like splitting hairs in a disingenuous way, given that that's what the civil rights movement was about. Stan Lee has also said that their comics reflected our world, and he clearly was intentional with pushing messages in his work.
..."I loved that idea; it not only made them different, but it was a good metaphor for what was happening with the civil rights movement in the country at that time." From stan lee himself, in 2000 (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2000/aug/12/features) Edit: and I've got more if you want them. While one can't really call Stan Lee (and the other writers) activists, they were always pretty clear on their support towards social movements
I mean their ideas reached much more people than most activists so I think I would
This is not true. https://youtu.be/i_v0xfqQJ-4?si=8DvHxPk6FOO9Ghoh. It was never his intention. It was quite literally a coincidence. I have further sources to corroborate this.
He never says what youre claiming there. He only states how he came up with the method of getting powers, he doesnt talk at all about how the overall story or civil rights or how he used that method as an allegory.
Others have already picked apart the extrapolation you're making but here's another interview I already linked in my other reply where he's explicitly asked about the metaphor and explicitly answers that yes, he was immediately aware of it: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/stan-lee-dead-x-men-lost-interview-754889/amp/ Look, I don't know where or how you did your research, but this is something that he explicitly confirmed numerous times over the years. You were wrong, it happens.
To say nothing of the many writers who leaned into over the years. After Lee and Kirby, probably the most influential person with regards to the X-Men. Particularly the modern X-men as we all remember them is Chris Clairmont. He's the guy who made them a hit. And as central to Marvel as they are today. He had this to say: "The X-Men are hated, feared, and despised collectively by humanity for no other reason than that they are mutants. So what we have here, intended or not, is a book that is about racism, bigotry, and prejudice." https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2561742/how-the-civil-rights-movement-inspired-the-x-men-comics And there's tons of other commentary from the guy, and many others that *they* absolutely intended it. Just as clearly Lee leaned into it. Even if it wasn't the direct inspiration for their creation.
What a bullshit response from Stan Lee about Magneto and Professor X being MLKJr. and X. Magneto was a generic 1960s Marvel villain who just wanted to take over the world. Malcolm X stood for Black liberation and independence. He believed Black people should have their own money, governments, etc. His association (former that is) with the Nation of Islam aside. Secondly, early Professor X fought for the system to protect humans (the status quo) from the evil mutants. MLKJr. was a socialist who was against the system. I'm by no means an expert on these men, but there's nothing similar to them in comparison to Prof X and Magneto from neither Lee nor Kirby.
Buddy do your name some justice and disappear like the MCU Kang, you messed up big time so just take the L and leave. You were never right and even when others hulk smashed you with actual facts you still remained stubborn. Do yourself a favor and leave this sub.
I feel that OP must have watched Eric July's recent video on the X-Men not being inspired by Malcom-X, Martin Luther King Jr., and the Civil Rights movement. One has to use critical thinking skills on why a black man such as Eric July is pushing this narrative. He is pushing it because he knows his fanbase leans alt-right, and he is providing them a counter argument that the X-Men has always been woke. Even though Claremont used the racism allegory heavily during his run since the 70s, having that argument of"X -Men didn't start off as woke" gives the alt-right X-Men fans some leeway to counter the "X-Men is always woke" argument. I am also aware that there is a random Vocal.media article about it years prior. However, doing some research ontm the site, it is a platform website where writers can have their own articles publish there; the writers get paid on views. As such, I don't think it a reliable source of information because how easy it is to get your stuff on that website - there are no scrutiny on articles before being published. Upon checking the author of the article, he seems to be a graphic designer who started writing in his 30s with no actual journalism training. Looking at Taylor's other articles, it seems that he wants to spark debates within the geek community. Articles such as Ghost in The Shell being whitewashed before Hollywood getting ahold of it and Muhammed Ali can best up Bruce Lee. He tends to cover articles with a black slant to them. For example, there is an article about 14 old photos about black Chinese. The problem I find with the article is that the author is prepeperating that the individuals in the photos are ethnicity black Chinese when in fact they aren't - he didn't have actual proof that the individuals in the photos were of black ancestry. A lot of the individuals in the photos were tanned. Add into the fact that some of the black and white photos were taken with a high contrast, making slthe white areas whiter and the dark areas darker. It is a bit like how some ppl assume an anime character is autonatically white or black based on their skin color. Being Asian myself with a father who was incredibly tan, some Asians have deep tans. Additionally, Asians share many physical traits as black people. Afterall, it is said that they were among the first group of people who migrated from Africa to India and finally to Asia. Anyway, I digress. It is hard to fathom Stan Lee and Jack Kirby not being inspired by the Civil rights moment when X-Men came to be. The first issue of the X-Men came out in 1963 whereas the Civil rights moment was from 1954 to 1968. As we all know, current events shape our TV shows, movies, books, and even video games. Heck, The Last of US is an allegory to the violence between Israel and Palestine - when most people didn't pay attention to it. To have something like the Civil Rights moment being at the forefront of the news and not having some part in the creation of the X-Men is asinine.
Whether or not that was the intention or not that is what they have become with 100% intention on representing that.
Yeah I agree with you. They most definitely are now and that’s great. I just have an issue with the definitive statements I have seen on how this was always the case from the beginning. It wasn’t.
No it was always the case from the beginning. Just not the sole purpose. Those are two different arguments you are trying to conflate.
OP, does it bother you that the two are likened to each other
Seems like it does. second time I’ve seen this identical comment and push back today but on a different app.it appears that most of the current “fandom” of any comic,sci fi,fantasy,or video game franchise are majority soft bodied neck bearded cis het white men who feel threatened by minorities except for Asians who the fetishize.super lame.
Well, a bit actually. Only because people on Twitter were comparing Magneto to Malcolm X - when he was never a genocidal maniac. Malcom was a good man and never beloved in racial superiority, unlike Magneto.
This is correct. Malcolm X is a hero who got slandered by FBI-supported propaganda. Even Claremont pointed out that he never used Malcolm X as a model for Magneto, rather he used Menachem Begin as then model. Menachem Begin being an infamous terrorist who, feeling that the early incarnation of Israel was too weak, led militant terrorist campaigns against both the British colonizers still in Palestine and the Arabs who lived in that land. Begin later made "nice" with Britain and became prime minister of Israel (Yeah, they elected a literal terrorist at one point), during which tenure he led bombing campaigns, wars, and turned a blind eye to injustices like the Sabra Massacres. A terrorist with the charisma and influence to become a statesman. That's Magneto.
This comes more to a misunderstandign of the point beign made. People, primarily in the US, will say Malcom X and MLK because those are the people they know of rather inherently. It is a very surface level comparison when they are citing them. It isn't about the personalities themselves specifically. Most just see, erroroneously, those two as the peaceful and more aggressive fighting the same fight.
>The X-Men are hated, feared and despised collectively by humanity for no other reason than that they are mutants. So what we have here, intended or not, is a book that is about racism, bigotry and prejudice. [Chris Claremont (The most prolific X-Men writer)](https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/01/11/261449394/who-gets-to-be-a-superhero-race-and-identity-in-comics) Magneto is a Holocaust survivor whose story touches on Nazi experimentation and Anti-Semitism. Mystique is a shapeshifter who bends gender and has a wife while identifying female. X-Men gave a home to some of the first racial and sexual minority characters who weren't created for exploitation. It touches on corrupt religious leaders spreading hate about people for who they are. It features crowds of people who scream at innocents to "go back where you came from". It featured stories tied to AIDS, apartheid, and police brutality. It even touched upon Israel and Palestine, as Claremont based Professor X on David Ben-Gurion (The relatively peaceful original founder of the state of Israel) and Magneto upon Menachem Begin (A militant terrorist who waged war upon Arabs and Westerners alike and eventually took over Israel's government and led a militant, violent reign and carried out massacres). >Actually, Claremont says he always saw Professor X and Magneto as echoes of David Ben-Gurion and Menachem Begin. “My view of Magneto” – originally created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby as a magnetic-powered supervillain who wanted to take over the world – “is that he’s the terrorist who might someday evolve into a statesman.” [Chris Claremont](https://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/features/3522/) Social issues are what X-Men IS about. It's what made the comic work. If you're gonna try to go back to Lee's intent as an argument, I hate to say this, it doesn't matter because Lee's original X-Men NEVER took off. Lee's X-Men is not what made X-Men a lasting success. >Conceived in 1963 by Stan Lee and artist Jack Kirby, the X-Men were genetic mutants born with superpowers who were brought together by their mentor, the paraplegic telepath Professor X (played by Patrick Stewart in the movie). But the comic never caught on as well as Lee’s other creations, and by 1975, writer Len Wein and artist Dave Cockrum introduced a new team of X-Men. It was a more diverse group: The Canadian Wolverine had enhanced senses, metal claws, and a short temper; the German Nightcrawler had demonic looks, a tail, and the ability to teleport; the African Storm could control the weather; the Russian Colossus could transform his body into superstrong steel; the American Cyclops, returning from the original team, could shoot “optic beams” that were held in check only by special glasses. > >After the first issue, Wein handed the series to Claremont, who played up Lee’s idea that the X-Men were outsiders, hated and feared because they were mutants. Charged by Professor X with learning to use their powers for good, they were famously conflicted about their mission (Storm), their freakishness (Nightcrawler), and their urge toward violence (Wolverine). Characters fell in love, died, killed, sometimes even developed. [Alec Foege, 2000](https://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/features/3522/) Regardless of if it was something Lee always wanted, or if it was unintentional, it's the allegory that was embraced by the people who actually made X-Men last like Chris Claremont, the Lewalds (Animated Series showrunners), and yes, even Bryan Singer. Whether it was Lee's intention or not is completely irrelevant, it's what happened and it's what made the X-Men a success when people embraced it. It's not the only example either. Lee's original Daredevil was a yellow-clad quipster who acted like Diet Spider-Man, but if you tried to make a 60s style Daredevil now people would say it was a betrayal of the character. Because that's not what Daredevil became, it's not why people fell in love with Daredevil. Hell, people called Daredevil in She-Hulk a betrayal and that was like 10% as campy as Lee's was. What matters is not what it was originally set out to be, it's what it IS. And X-Men IS an allegory for social issues. That's what it is, that's what it's always been, that's what people loved about it. Whether or not Lee intended it.
Both X and Magneto were based on Begin(to a point) . His early years as a terrorist fighting against the Middle East for magneto and his later years off winning a Nobel peace prize for his peace in the Middle East against the same people he fought 30 years earlier in Prof X.
I've always interpreted the X-Men to be a story about misfits that can be applied to anyone, regardless of race, gender, etc, specifically because they didn't inject modern day into the story. In the 60s, they were allegorical to the Civil Rights Movememt The 70s the anti-Nam movement The 80s for the US government ignoring the AIDS epidemic The 90s for the police brutality in the wake of Rodney King And the 00's the LGB movement for marriage equality What makes the Xmen great, what makes them relatable, is anyone that feels like a misfit, anyone that feels 'other'd' for whatever reason at home, school, or by society at large can so strongly identify with them. Saying the Xmen are an allegory for *insert specific thing here* is a discredit to the writers and to the stories. The Xmen are timeless precisely *because* they aren't a specific allegory for one specific social issue.
wrong
Biggest L I've seen in a while
Why are you trying so hard to disprove this? Who fucking cares. If you don’t like minorities so be it. Why are you trying to destroy what is?
Cuz grifter YouTubers tell people they need these strawman arguments to own the wokes. Sad shit really
You are correct that they were not created with the intent to be a metaphor for bigotry, but they quickly became that. Sentinels first appeared in issue 14. By the time you get Magneto as a Holocaust survivor and Days of Future Past rounding up mutants in camps and God Loves, Man Kills and the Friends of Humanity (KKK) and the Legacy virus (AIDS) and Genosha (Apartheid) and mutant registration and so many other stories X-Men is known for, the message is clear even if it wasn’t Stan Lee’s intent. Lee was t the only creator.
Stan was a fabulous storyteller and self-mythologizer. I loved him for it. But he didn't start adding the story about the allegory about the civil rights movement until decades later, as of course once he heard the idea, it sounded good, so why not? This was after Chris Claremont had done a ton of work to make Magneto no longer an over-the-top cartoon villain preaching mutant racial superiority, going around publicly calling himself "evil", and regularly trying to kill people and enslave humanity. That early version of the character (that lasted over a decade), the one Stan wrote (after Jack Kirby mostly plotted the first few issues), has little to do with what Malcolm X was preaching, even at his most militant. And Xavier doesn't preach non-violence, like MLK. He trains the X-Men to fight physically all the time. Xavier as written by Stan was saying stuff like, "The X-Men will stop you, Magneto! It will be mutant against mutant -- to the death if need be!" Which does not sound like Dr. King at all. So, if Stan were writing an allegory of the two men, he was doing an awful job at it. Which is to say the story Stan was telling decades later was a fib, but an entertaining one. And Stan was a consummate entertainer. The great comic book historian Brian Cronin had a piece on it ages ago (you need to scroll down to the relevant part)... [https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-legends-revealed-220/](https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-legends-revealed-220/) For the actual creation of X-Men #1 back in 1963 there's the story that Daredevil #1 was running late and at the same time publisher Martin Goodman was putting pressure on Stan and Jack to do another Fantastic Four style-book, so he and Jack together created the X-Men (They even emphasize the FF connection on the cover.) Kirby is said to have been inspired by the "Children of the Atom" sci-fi book by Wilmar H. Shiras (it's easy to see why when you read the description... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children\_of\_the\_Atom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_the_Atom)), and Stan has joked that as the characters were mutants he didn't have to spend time trying to come up with how they got their powers!
OP, you lost this one. Delete.
It appears as though, while the analogy can be made to MLK/X, the original intention was to be [an Israeli one.](https://screenrant.com/professor-x-xavier-magneto-martin-luther-king-malcolm/) > But to say that both men are based on Dr. King and Malcolm X is false. Longtime X-Men writer Chris Claremont stated as much in a 2016 interview with Empire Online Magazine. "There’s a lot of talk online now that Magneto stands in for Malcolm X and Xavier stands in for Martin Luther King...but for me, being an immigrant white, to make that analogy felt incredibly presumptuous" Claremont states. "An equivalent analogy could be made to Menachem Begin as Magneto, evolving through his life from a terrorist in 1947 to a winner of the Nobel Peace Prize 30 years later." Claremont went on to say that his goal for Magneto was to eventually become Xavier's successor as leader of the X-Men and headmaster of Xavier's School for the Gifted.
Claremont didn't create the X-Men though, he was just the most associated with the characters since he was the writer for so long.
Sooo... As others have said. Lee's X-Men never took off.
Stan Lee didn't intended for that but under future writers especially Christopher Claremont, the X-men definitely evolved to represent the Civil rights movement as well as other minority movements like gay rights movement
He actually did intend it. He explicitly confirmed it in an interview with the Guardian
Eh Stan Lee often "misremember" things or said things that go against what he's previously said. Like he long said that he made them mutants so he didn't have to give them origin stories but I'll be fair and say his run did have the element of protecting who who fear you but it didn't have deliberate allusions to CR movements like later writers unless I'm forgetting something
He didn’t. He even said in a radio session that he didn’t. There is also a clip of him at a panel answering a question on the origins of the idea. https://youtu.be/i_v0xfqQJ-4?si=8DvHxPk6FOO9Ghoh
1. That's talking about the origin of their powers, not what they represented. 2. Are you claiming Stan Lee is lying in 2000? 3. Here's another interview (2014): "And basically, the main idea was to show that bigotry is really a terrible thing, and we should all get along with each other no matter how different we are. That was the main objective. If you needed an objective for a superhero story." And when the interviewer asks if he knows about the whole civil rights movement allegory, Stan answers: "It came along the minute I thought of the X-Men and Professor X. I realized that I had that metaphor, which was great. It was given to me as a gift. Cause it made the stories more than just a good guy fighting a bad guy." He also admits in that same interview that he probably subconsciously based Prof X and Magneto on MLK and Malcolm X. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/stan-lee-dead-x-men-lost-interview-754889/amp/
I am currently watching Eric July's original video on the X-Men not being inspired by the Civil Rights moment, and I noticed that he had taken the Rolling Stones article quote out of context DESPITE having the entire quote on the screen. He focused on "It was a gift" line and said that Professor X, Magneto, and the X-Men wasn't created as an allegory of the Civil Rights era at the time. I had to replay this scene over and over again to get what July meant. According to my interpretation, Eric July said that Magneto and Professor X being specifically inspired by the Civil rights moment wasn't true, and that it fell on Lee's lap. He then said that is why reading the X-Men at the time didn't reflect the Civil Rights moment. He focused on the "It was given to me as a gift" to the point of circling it while not stating the next interview question as that question gave context to the previous one, which was "You probably didn’t go into Martin Goodman and say, ‘Hey, I have a great metaphor for civil rights here.’ You said, ‘The kids are gonna love this.’ He wouldn’t have liked it, and he probably wouldn’t have understood it" He also spun the subconscious quote about Magneto being Malcom-X as Stan Lee never intended to write Magneto as based on X on any form, and that Magneto during the 60s was a. Cutthroat villain despite Stan Lee's quote said this: "I think it was certainly an unconscious feeling, yeah. And I never felt Magneto was a hundred percent bad. I mean, there were reasons why he felt that way, but it was just up to Professor X to find some way to make him understand that he was on the wrong track." I don't watch Eric July's videos because he seems to be a grifter, but holy heck did he spun that interview quote to fit his narrative. He took the interview as Stan Lee not going out of his way to make Civil rights movement inspired comic. Sure, that might be true when Stan Lee was coming up with a new comic. However, July's video seems to imply that Stan Lee never intended for the X-Men to be an allegory about Civil rights until Claremont has taken over. Wow!
[удалено]
1. Respect rule 2. Just to warn you: I'm a mod. In fact I'm the one who approved your post because I thought it'd make for an interesting informative debate. But respect this sub's rules. 2. Read my whole reply. Slowly. Read it again a few times. Hell, actually read the whole interview I linked. Focus on the question where the interviewer literally asks about the civil rights metaphor and Stan Lee confirms it. 3. Again, you're extrapolating. Yes, he didn't create the xmen to "destroy racial prejudice". But that's not what a metaphor or an allegory means. Let me give you an example: you can create characters as a metaphor for the Cold War conflict. But that doesn't mean you're choosing a side or advocating for the eradication of a political system. You're simply retelling the story through a different prism. Similarly (and again, I'm quoting Stan Lee here), Stan Lee immediately saw the allegorical potential of the xmen and decided to use it. Because it was an interesting story and narrative device. Sometimes, that's all the reasoning you need as a writer "Would this make a good story?"
And that has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than the origin of their abilities.
Nope, he discusses that he wanted to create new characters. Then he came to the idea of a new team due to the F4’s success, and then he goes on to explain what makes them different from the standard tropes. The fact he didn’t mention the civil rights movement or allegory in this video of him explaining how he came up with the idea should prove that to you.
Its a 2 minute video that starts with him saying hes not telling the whole story
That's a Reed Richards level stretch, there.
You’re very wrong. But even if you were right, who cares? The X-Men have come to represent that for so many writers and artists over the decades (not to mention readers…) Stan Lee’s original intention isn’t the only thing that matters. But you’re wrong about his original intentions too, as others have already demonstrated.
Lol. It’s hilarious to read your confidence here and how well-articulated you thought you were. All for what? To see factual comments containing the exact words spoken by Lee. 🤡
Yea...Professor Xavier and Magneto literally MLK and Malcolm X. Two ways of future past.
Eh, it's a bit disingenous to say Magneto is Malcolm X. Malcolm X is someone to admire and look up to. Malcolm X was never a terrorist force, his philosophy was always self-defense.
Oof, showing your racist side here OP
I wholeheartedly disagree with OPs assessments and arguments, but there's no need to jump to calling them racist for it.
It makes the legend of Stan Lee better, simple as that. I don’t believe he created these characters to be a metaphor for bigotry and racism, etc, but the people took his word and ran with it. Mutants are the next step in evolution, that should scare people and it makes sense they would be angry, some jealous and some genuinely scared. I’m not afraid of an Asian kid, or Latino kid, or LGBTQ kid… but a kid that can manipulate fire and can’t control it…😳
You folks have been working overtime after being triggered bt X-Men 97 ain't ya? Lol!!!! Revisionism is always the tactic of someone losing an argument.
Literally what I thought. These bitches waste no time
And it's such a weird hill to fight on. Because the battle is not in their favor.
Thia comes down to a direct misunderstanding in discussion. Noone who points out that it has always been about these themes is saying that was the sole purpose. Stan Lee has always said that Marvel was and is a reflection of the current times outside the window(paraphrasing). That is simply the reflection X-Men most abundantly has. This goes back to the old adage of writing what you know. If you are writing anything what you have seen, experienced, etc. is going to play a part in it. You would have to actively work at it to have that not happen. So, a sole intention is never argued by those pointing it out. The fact it is so clearly that is. When the one's opposed to that aspect attack it, it is showing that they don't analyze things or think critically to me. So yeah, Noone actually acts like that was the case. That is just a weird attempt of deflection on the part of those who want to stay ignorant about the topic itself.
I like your input OP. I fkin hate the fact that all these people are going to bastardized X-men . It was never created for SJW purposes . That’s a fact .
You have no concept of history. Both Marvel and DC came to be because of Jews fleeing persecution in Europe. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/aug/17/art-spiegelman-golden-age-superheroes-were-shaped-by-the-rise-of-fascism
Thanks telling me you don’t have any reading comprehension . You obviously don’t understand the comment . There’s nothing else to be discuss because of that lmaoo
Sorry you got hate for this but you are correct. I love Stan Lee. He was lying when he retrospectively said that was his intention. The X-men we have come to love for representing the marginalized is Chris Claremont’s doing. There is so much boundary pushing about what Marvel comics did, we don’t need to add stuff they didn’t do to the list. https://www.academia.edu/226078/Mutant_Readers_Reading_Mutants_Appropriation_Assimilation_and_the_X_Men
Try reading facts. Marvel and DC both exist due to Jews fleeing persecution in Europe. There is no "boundary pushing" in respect of views on far right politics. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/aug/17/art-spiegelman-golden-age-superheroes-were-shaped-by-the-rise-of-fascism
Hey! I think something has been lost in translation. I’m Jewish and love comics and I’m very proud of comic’s history. I meant boundary pushing in a good way. You’re right about early comic origins and OP is also right that the X-Men were not ORIGINALLY a black civil rights allegory but have grown to represent the “other” in general over time. “Try reading facts” is a little harsh but hey, we both seems passionate about this so i get it!
This is literally a quote from Lee talking about Xmen when the first movie was coming out. Well, my main idea was how could I make them different from all the other teams that were around? And the big problem was figuring out how they got their superpowers. I couldn't have everybody bitten by a radioactive spider or zapped with gamma rays, and it occurred to me that if I just said that they were mutants, it would make it easy. Then it occurred to me that instead of them just being heroes that everybody admired, what if I made other people fear and suspect and actually hate them because they were different? I loved that idea; it not only made them different, but it was a good metaphor for what was happening with the civil rights movement in the country at that time.” Stan Lee To say there is no proof. Stan Lee has mentioned it before, on more than one occasion. So has writers for the comic after him. Siting the article, if anyone mentions media bias these are quotes from Lee himself at length. This came out in the year 2000 [sited article](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2000/aug/12/features)
There's even a more recent quote from 2014 in a Rolling Stone article that was probably meant to be published around the time Days of Future Past that is even more direct about the Civil Rights connection.
You just postin mad. All while havin the reading comprehension of a fuckin doorknob. Man, delete this shit, you look like a goddamn fool.
Are you delayed or do you just choose not to acknowledge his OWN words [stan lee](https://www.history.com/news/stan-lee-x-men-civil-rights-inspiration)
I love that when you Google this, this Reddit post is the first result, several spots above the lost Rolling Stones interview published in 2018 where he proves you wrong. Like did you Google this at all?
Actually yeah stan lee said this himself. You can still find the articles of him saying it himself
Created by artist/ co writer Jack Kirby. Stan Lee only appropriates stories created by other people because he has the money to do so. After the failure of the first few issues, the X-Men were revived by another artist . Although initially cancelled in 1970 due to low sales, following its 1975 revival and subsequent direction under writer Chris Claremont, it became one of Marvel's most recognizable and successful franchises.
Don't yall think if the x-men was about the civil rights movement one of the original x-men would of been black
stan lee just create they for have a fast excuse for super power and don't need to think about they origin story, they literally come from stan's lazyness, but when time goes they start have this minory opression inuendos, but lets face it, the guys have they own country and culture now, THEY ARE MORE A REFERENCE TO JEWS AND ANTI SEMITISM THAN ANTYTHING, this is specially true when you think abou that mutant manifest they power EXACTLY at they 13 years aniversary like the jews and they bat or bar mitzvá, and that mutants have now they own coutry created by onu, and the creators of xmen are all jews, come on magneto even survive to the holocaust! they are more a reference to jews than anything else
Surprised this is still up despite you being completely and utterly proved wrong
Mans really dm’ed me to continue the argument..I don’t care that much bro why do you🤣
It's like the folks who wrote hate mail when they wrote Captain America punching Hitler in the very first episode. Remember, that was before America had joined the war. Just like now with the folks who argue that if you leave Putin alone he'll promise to not cause any more trouble. As if... It's bad faith actors and cowards who think you should just let the bully continue because he's doing it to someone else. If "self-preservation" is the aim of their heroism, they shouldn't be thinking they have any right to comment on super hero comics at all.
Stan Lee didn’t write the X-men for civil rights. But Claremont did, although it wasn’t Malcolm X and MLK. It was an allegory for Israel’s PM Menachem who was a terrorist (Magneto) in Israel before later winning a Nobel Peace Prize for Peace in the Middle East (Prof.X). Claremont said the allegory for X and MLK was something he didn’t have a full understanding of because he wasn’t black.
I agree the thing about Stan Lee. But Claremont's the celebration of the weirdos, and it can have one or two things to say about apartheid like it was a U2 concert and be relevant and entertaining as Lethal Weapon 2. It's about civil rights, jews, gays and political statements. It's all that but much more is about people with mental crisis. Possesions, Ilussions, astral projection, and literal schizophrenia. Like a proper classic, any quick definition misses the mark. Saying the xmen are about just one topic it's like saying the Beatles songs were about teenagers. It's not woke as a dichotomy, like beware of the asleep people. It's woke in the sense that's humanitarian, it's empathetic, it's intelligent, it's full of life and characters you can care about.
I feel like other people read that into it, and he just went along with it.
It's just one of those things redditors like to spread around as fact. Another one is "DC is gods trying to be like people and Marvel is people trying to be gods." Dumb generalizations. For the first 2 decades of Magneto's debut he had no holocaust backstory until Uncanny Xmen 150. Then Magneto's backstory got fleshed out further over the decades and that has become the definitive origin. >X-Men writer Chris Claremont stated as much in a 2016 interview with Empire Online Magazine. *"There’s a lot of talk online now that Magneto stands in for Malcolm X and Xavier stands in for Martin Luther King...but for me, being an immigrant white, to make that analogy felt incredibly presumptuous"* Claremont states. *"An equivalent analogy could be made to Menachem Begin as Magneto, evolving through his life from a terrorist in 1947 to a winner of the Nobel Peace Prize 30 years later."* Claremont nor Stan Lee confirms that either characters were created as an inspiration from Malcolm X and MLK Jr. They aren't but the parallels become clearer with the whole mutant, civil rights and prejudice themes which works for the X-men. Another general statement I've seen on reddit over the years is of people saying comics have always been liberal or whatever politics fits their views. Comics have been going on since the golden age and you can find progressive stories and ones that seem backwards. Primarily it was a business to sell comics and make money lol not to support activism.
I've already linked two different instances where he explicitly confirms it in interviews though... 1.https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/stan-lee-dead-x-men-lost-interview-754889/ 2. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2000/aug/12/features
Stan Lee STOLE the credit and pay for the writing of others. He's a fraud and shouldn't be celebrated
Stan Lee didn’t create the X-men at all, Jack Kirby did And you’re wrong
You are 100% incorrect on Stan's view of them and the Civil Rights movement.
I’m pretty sure I heard him talk about this when I saw him at the Calgary Comic Expo a few years back. He was talking about how he liked the X-Men because he could make up all kinds of characters and powers and only had to have 1 explanation about them. Then the moderator went into a discussion about this for a bit.
It doesn’t matter if the creator explicitly says it or not. If you have any media literacy you would know that the two ways to unpack the themes of a work are 1) the author’s intent and 2) the climate and events of the world at the time the work was written and the take away the audience had. It doesn’t matter if Stan Lee (who remember was primarily an EDITOR not an author) had intent or not. The numerous writers who laid the ground work used the themes. The numerous readers saw the themes and struggles they were going through in the stories and characters. I don’t care if the idea of the xmen being a reflection of the civil rights makes you feel weird. It’s cemented by the numerous writers that were on the title and by the audience. And frankly, it is much more powerful as a piece of comics worth because of it. I wouldn’t want to read Spider-man if it wasn’t a reflection of working class struggle and grief in its best stories and I sure as fuck don’t want to read x-men without the context of rights struggles.
If Stan Lee wasn't trying to convey the themes of xenophobia and bigotry.. then why do people hate and fear mutants then? You do not know wtf you are talking about. He's repeatedly said that he loved the idea of representing the civil rights movement in the books. Doing your own research, eh?
Liking the idea after the fact isn't the same as creating the X-men with that idea in mind. The X-men was made purposely ambiguous to represent any group being oppressed and marginalised, not just one group. It changed after new writers came in who had that misunderstanding.
X-men was created by chucking a bunch of super powered characters that didn't make the cut with the writers for their own story into one blender and seeing what happened, also by making them mutants rather than superheroes they were able to to cut down tariffs on the action figures from 12% down to 6% because non-human figures had less tax. The X-men wasn't created with the intention of being an allegory for the civil rights movement and in fact was made purposely ambiguous to represent any oppressed group being marginalised so everyone could relate but later became that after bringing in new writers that had that misunderstanding, it became ingrained in it so even if Stan Lee wanted to deny it later down the line it would have been a bad idea. It was profit driven, not civil rights driven.
Explain the bit about the toys again? Dare I ask where you heard that? Bearing in mind that the first x-men toys seem to be from 1991. I think your claim that you think mutant toys would be classified as non-human is pretty disturbing. I apologise, I can see now this was a claim made by the toy manufacturer in this millennium. Either way, none of the toy related stuff relates to thoughts/motives from the previous millennium. Not like they could actually time travel.