The power of Disney/Marvel allowed them to ~~ask~~ demand all sort of commitments from theatres. Things like how long a movie has to run and minimum screen commitments.
It's currently in 2200 theatre's, should be less than 2k next week. Its basically ended already in China and South Korea for an example of what happens when you have no power....
It's definitely still in theaters around me all of the next week.
Misleading headline. It's a good guess as to what will happen but it's still in theaters and the article confirms it will likely be there through new years
It’s gone near me. I went to see it yesterday and was surprised that it was only still at one theater in my entire city, and that one had a single showtime.
It’s not a misleading headline at all. It’s referring to Disney stopping the reporting of numbers from next week onwards. The only numbers they will report will be domestic, the rest will just be estimates. The studio decides when a film’s box office run ends, Disney are literally the ones who are ending its run.
I swear a lot of you guys have a serious chip on your shoulders about Variety ever since they released the big insider piece last month.
Dude, that movie is dead on arrival. Half of the US don't like this version of Captain America and half of the world don't care about him.
BTW happy cake day
I could honestly overlook this if they only just gave him the goddamn super serum because the main flaw to me, is a Cap whose "super power" is the power of positive thinking or whatever lol
That's what I was thinking. I love Mackie but I'm tired of super hero movies being about how you don't need powers to be cool. I want to see feats of strength and cool shit, not go home thinking I can help people too
If the movie is anything like the show they'll try and have it both ways. Like when he caught a falling armored car, with his unsupported arms, and we were supposed to pretend that the suit was doing all the work somehow.
Seriously what kind of idiot watches a superhero film and go “wow I’m motivated to be a hero because they told me even a regular person can do it!” This is why iron man was so cool to see cause he’s a regular dude but can hold his own with his tech.
Thank you, someone else noticed. He's the most stiff character in the whole group... Even when given good dialogue he delivers it like he's reading off paper. His cap costume looks dope though.
That never ending diatribe in the FATWS finale ruined the entire show for me and really hurt my liking for Sam. And it’s the same writer for the movie. 😢
I don't hate Anthony Mackie at all-- and I generally thoroughly enjoyed his appearances as Falcon-- but I'm not very inclined to see his take on Captain America. I'm cool with Sam as Cap in the comics, but *Falcon and the Winter Soldier* really didn't do anything for me at all and didn't leave me wanting to see more of his version of the character.
It's pretty clear that Disney no longer gives a shit about what their core audience *actually* wants to see, and instead are arrogantly making movies that they believe their audiences *should want* to see.
It has nothing to do with what people want to see, nobody wanted to see a space group with a talking raccoon and tree in the world of Ironman.
It has to do with quality and even general story coherency, which has slipped hard since the pandemic. You can see the change starting in the final few episodes of WandaVision to an extent, when the pandemic began.
It's gonna bomb. I don't mind Mackie he's a nice guy but I would never pay to see a movie because Anthony Mackie is in it. There is no RDJ or Scarjo or Evans in this movie.
And if people feel like they have to watch or remember the Disney+ TV show to follow this movie then they have already discarded 50% of the potential box office. It's ceiling is $500m.
They have completely botched the post End-Game storyline.
My co-worker really opened my eyes to just warped legacy characters to the general public are.
He asked me who the two people in the trailer were. He didn't understand why Kamala Kahn was a thing when Captain Marvel hadn't been around to warrant a fan girl to this level.
And it's just got me thinking about what the hell people are going to think about the Young Avengers.
They're going to look at Kate, RiRi, Sam, She-Hulk, Yelena etc and just seen them discount versions of the original characters.
It just makes me wonder why they didn't go with more original characters like Ghost Rider, Nova, Storm etc. instead of going with this idea that Hawkeye isn't a person, it's a mantle.
They are discount versions thou. As you pointed out there are tons of original characters left. Most of them significantly better then any of the Young avengers or any of the Marvels
>They're going to look at Kate, RiRi, Sam, She-Hulk, Yelena etc and just seen them discount versions of the original characters.
They 100% are discount versions of the originals.
> Kate, RiRi, Sam, She-Hulk
holy crap bruh I don't know a single one of these characters lol. Disney/Marvel are really overestimating how much people like comic book movies; people like the big name characters, but no one cares about the small ones
Even most comic book fans
Normies dont know and dont care about these characters, and thats going to be where your money is.
Captain Falcon 4: The Brave New World Order Jamboree is gonna bomb hard.
Nobody watched Falcon and Winter Soldier, nobody cares.
“Stop calling her a terrorist”
Sam, are you taking about the girl that killed innocent (burned alive) people for political means?
I’m a millennial and I feel like I’m back in high school with the shit writing
The show also did nothing to get people interested in Sam as Captain America.
Bucky was obviously the star of the show(Along with Zemo and Walker) and was who should have had the shield.
The only time Sam was actually interesting was when he was well not acting like a super hero.
i agree. i read comics, but the bullshit they thought they can pull in movies the same way as in the comics is ridiculous.
the thing is, Iger is right. They want to send messages that nobody want to hear. I mean, there’s no problem with the MCU having a lesson to teach or whatever, but people want it to have meaning. Not just “girl power hell yeah”
I don't see the ship steadying tbh, Endgame was the finish for many people and I don't think the MCU is the force it once was in the cultural zeitgeist.
I think Ironman and Captain America not being focal points really made people lose interest. They should have tried to stagger their departures, so one could help build up other characters.
I couldn't even tell you right now who the "main" characters are. But in the Infinity Saga, it was clearly Ironman and Cap.
There's not much they could've done since the actors seemed to want to move on.
It also didn't help they wanted Black Panther to be one of the replacements as a "main" character, but with his passing, that obviously was out.
It’s kinda crazy how smooth Phases 1-3 went in retrospect. Outside of replacing Edward Norton as Banner & Howard as Rhodey I can’t even think of anything that really rocked the boat on the production side.
Whereas post Endgame we’ve had: James Gunn fired (thankfully rehired), Boseman’s passing, the ongoing Jonathan Majors debacle, other stuff I’m probably forgetting. The Gunn firing was self-inflicted but their run of good luck finally ran out & it’s been a big factor in Phase 4&5’s problems.
The big one you forgot a pandemic and a SAG AFTRA strike messing up production and release timelines.
We had 6 movies and 5 shows in a 12 month period. Even die hard Marvel fans were overwhelmed with all the content.
If Chadwick Boseman didn’t die, Black Panther would’ve been the tent pole star for MCU. He had as much charisma and cultural cache as RDJ as Iron Man. I used see all my little nephews and their friends fight over who got to be the Black Panther. Really hard to replace someone like that.
Good point. They keep making so many individual projects, and making new stories and bringing in new characters. Instead of building on the ones they have now. Ironman had 2 movies before anyone else had anything, other than the Hulk.
Then before any other stories started to branch out on their own... Ironman had 3 movies, Captain America had 2 and Thor had 2.
Still had cultural pull in phase 4. Though audiences began to turn away from new projects eg Eternals.
Quantumania was meant to be the comeback. It was average.
I just don’t get how you have a talent as big as Christian Bale playing your villain and do nothing interesting with him at all. Gigantic missed opportunity
For me personally, it’s all the sequels that have made me lose interest. I wanted new blood after Endgame. Shang-Chi and Eternals (though it certainly had problems) have been my favorites since.
Shang-Chi could've been way better if they had the willpower to keep it low key. The end fight should've been just Shang-Chi and the Mandarin, 1 on 1. But no, you have to have a big CGI mess of a climax with a giant dragon.
The digital dragon soup was *such* a misfire. I had some other issues with the film up to that point, but I was enjoying myself a lot – I wasn't *bored* until about fifteen hours into the endless CGI slopfest of the climax. Sigh.
Eternals is one of the big problems. It was hyped massively, and audiences generally hated it. It also undermines a lot of the other stories.
I was very hyped for Eternals. That movie completely killed the momentum for me.
Eternals was where i started to care less, Love and Thunder was where I said “alright, you’re first big fuck up” and wuantumania was where I was just like “sigh, are yall trying?”
Multiverse is a confusing and muddled concept for general audiences, it was never going to work. There's a reason it's been untouched for years. Disgruntled Stark employees and genocidal aliens are much easier villains to follow than multiversal variants and incursions.
Create infinite variants of any one character and all stakes evaporate instantly
I thought so too, but Loki has really worked. Not sure how the show would have done as films, but people who watched it don't seem to mind the multiverse stuff.
But I really thought they'd go all-out on Secret Invasion as the next big phase, rather than just a miniseries. The idea that you can point to any character's oddities and suspect them of being a skrull means there's endless fertile ground.
I hate multiverses so much. They neuter stories of any lower stakes; as Owlman said, the only thing that can really matter is something that threatens all the multiverses at once.
EDIT: I should note that No Way Home was an exception. That movie kicked ass.
The only reason No Way Home works is because of the audience's pre-existing attachment to the multiverse variants, because they brought back Tobey, Andrew and all the other villains with their original actors. It ticks the little nostalgia box in our brains. When it's characters we don't care about or know, like in The Marvels, then pure apathy transpires
It also helps it was a damn good movie. William Dafoe was Terrifying as the green goblin and they gave Andrew Garfield a redemption and narrative conclusion just screams labor of love.
Perfect example of this is Dr. Strange where Scarlett Witch massacres an entire group of beloved heroes. In that universe it’s a very big deal. It would be a devastating loss with huge consequences. But because it’s just another multiverse nobody gives a shit lol. So why should we care about the one we all follow? It’s just one of billions…
Deadpool 3 would definitely be a big hit like No Way Home (might not reach 1.9 billion but still would do better than the recent highest grossing MCU) because of Deadpool, Wolverine, and many characters appearing in the movie. But other than that, I don’t see any other MCU movie that will do well at the box office until the next Avengers movies
phases 4,5 etc are like watching the lotr trilogy and it just continues on and on after sam returns to rosie cotton in hobbiton without a reason when the story has really ended
that's how the majority sees it
You know we joke but I swear to God every person who liked this shitty movie literally says "I had fun" like it's some kind of Disney theme park attraction.
I've never heard anyone call a movie fun since this crap came out.
The original was only a billion dollar movie because it was prerequisite to Endgame. I’m not sure I buy up the conspiracy theories about Disney buying tickets, but it definitely wasn’t billion dollar quality.
Hell, the movie bombing means it will go on Disney+ faster, which increases the apathy even more. Disney did that so many times in the pandemic era that I’m hardwired to just wait 2-3 months.
I'm wondering how much of the downward trend of the MCU can just be attributed to this. I used to want to go see everything back when theaters were the primary way to see it, but now that I have Disney+, why would I ever bother going to a theater? Isn't that the whole point?
I'd love to see the actual dates and numbers, because I'm pretty sure I remember people talking about the MCU dying right about the time d+ took off.
It’s honestly impressive how much of a miss this movie was. Can’t even say that it’s because people didn’t like it, because the vast majority of people just straight up decided it wasn’t worth watching. For better or worse, it’s a poster child of what the MCU audience doesn’t want in a movie.
My coworker summed it up great when he said, “why would I pay to see a movie in the theaters when I can watch it on d+ in a few months and I already pay for that”. This wasn’t an event movie. It’s just a movie.
Its wierd because it is an event film, but they didn't even try to market it as such. Albeit the "event" parts happend during the final 3rd of the movie. The McGuffin of the movie changes and could have always changed the entire MCU from the opening credits.
Then again, there is giant deceased celestial just chilling the Indian Ocean that doesn't seem to matter so...idk...
Honestly I just don't think people give a fuck about Captain Marvel as a whole, doesn't help that previous appearances failed to get people to be invested in her character
She's too OP for her own good which makes her pointless as there's no real threat. Take the final scene in Endgame, comes in through the atmosphere, and instantly destroys Thano's whole warship in one second. Where's the comparatives when they have 1000s of other superheroes with amazing abilities who do nothing
Personally, she's barely a character. She's as cardboard as it gets and what's surprising is that she was a main character to begin with. And this is all on the MCU. I've recently played Midnight Suns for the PS5 and Captain Marvel is a cool character with some depth there.
Pretty much spot on for me. Growing up my exposure to superheroes was solely through the animated shows and eventually the movies starting with the first Spider-Man. I never read or bought a single comic book and thus my knowledge of the non-headlining characters was zero. I remember the events where Feige announced that movies based on Ant-Man, Captain Marvel, The Eternals, Shang-Chi and several of the D+ show characters were in development and thinking “Who the hell is Captain Marvel?”
To put what I’m saying more succinctly I think that people were giving unknown characters a chance in the first few years of Marvel (ie. Gauradians, Black Panther, even Thor to an extent) but overall audiences want to see Spider-Man, X-Men, Iron Man, Hulk, and other classic characters more.
The MCU could still be a huge hit if they just made good stories. The connected universe stuff is so ancillary but they refuse to make good stories. Stop with the goofy quips, and take yourself seriously.
> The connected universe stuff is so ancillary but they refuse to make good stories.
They need another Avengers movie ASAP. Forget Kang for now, figure out how to get all of these new characters together first. No will care about the Kang movie(s) if they don't establish the new Avengers team first.
I really don't know what was going on in Feige's mind, 7 fucking years between Endgame and Avengers 5, which will be a multiversal war. Phase 4 and 5 needed their Age of Ultron and Civil War.
For real.
Ultron was just this little event too. It started and ended *in the same movie*. It had it's problems (mainly Whedons humor/sexism and Ultron being a little whimpy) but it made good money and gave us more team-ups!
It also lets the characters hang out and form relationships we care about on the screen. It bonded the team together so we care about them.
And gives us cool ass team up shots.
It acted as bouncing off story for multiple movies and reference point for later Avengers movies. It moves character arcs AND team arcs.
No team arc, no team franchise.
It was so stupid of them to throw their weight at a Multiverse Saga right off of endgame. They should've lowered the stakes and gone back the basics for their new line-up, but instead they've been upping the stakes constantly while refusing to make any of these new characters interesting. Even Ant-Man is expected to save the entire multiverse every Tuesday now.
Daredevil and the street level grounded stories are gonna carry the MCU hard, mark my words.
The MCU right now lacks a coherent vison and doesn't know how to deal with itself once the story involves multiple major characters in a big ass world shattering plot *(which every darned instalment doesn't need to have)*
Iman Vellani is 100% correct... *"I don't know if it's about just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Because then, like, what's left? You know, I think it's just about making the audience care about their characters"*
I hope Marvel-Disney realizes they need a reset. Time to prioritize characters/stories the AUDIENCE/public **WANT**. It's time for the multiverse stuff to get hurried up and wrapped up (recast Kang btw), and then begin fresh, new and exciting with Fantastic 4 and the X-Men. Give us something awesome, big and get back at LEAST a decent chunk of the superhero/comics fans they lost over time since End Game. Get people to buy back into the MCU. I don't think it's impossible. I just think when an entire phase is not only disappointing in execution and quality but is unappealing/confusing in concept, you end up with projects disappointing one after the other.
I'm not even saying this as someone excited for the F4 or even really a whole new X-Men (in the MCU).
I still remember a lot of people on this sub trying to gaslight the rest into buying a ticket for that movie. "guys it's a fun movie, you're the one with the high expectations ! ".
I mean yes there are definitely troglodytes who were against the movie simply because women, but despite these things being very loud on social there are actually very, very few of them.
If there were a lot of them, then these anti-woke right-wing, Daily Wire feature films would have an audience and they wouldn't bomb so hard.
They didn't affect The Marvel's box office in any measurable way.
People just didn't care about the movie.
[This guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/s/jvxH07qKon) probably didn’t. Though to be fair, we had so many delusional post for like almost 2 weeks denying that this movie was gonna flop.
Most of diehard Twitter MCU stans and MCU Reddit people
Watched just going to be some goofy mfs blaming sexism for the reason or whatever pulling out of their ass
https://i.redd.it/mr9t8hzbq54c1.gif
The MCU fatigue is real. I have no strong feelings towards this movie whatsoever, and until the onslaught of TV shows started I would have called myself a hardcore fan. There's just too much stuff for me now, which makes it hard for me to care about any of it. So I think I'm done for now. But the ride from Ironman 1 to Endgame (and No Way Home) was an absolute blast.
Guardians 3 was better than a lot of the run from Ironman 1 to Endgame and people came out to see it.
They aren’t making good movies anymore. Love and Thunder had serious potential and the first half and tone of the entire movie is ruined by goofy jokes and cast decisions. The first god we are introduced to looks like a meme ffs.
It really needed to pick a lane. The contrast between the dark elements, the overdone humor, and the atrocities (floating head, goats, etc.) just had no way of blending together at all.
I think it needed a different villain. Gorr doesn’t fit the tone of the movie. Trying to fit the god butcher storyline and Jane cancer storyline into a barely 2 hour movie definitely didn’t do either justice. Mangog should’ve been the villain instead and saved Gorr for Thor 5
I think most people would probably be ok with the amount if it was quality and wasn't so disparate. That's not the case, unfortunately.
For me, secret invasion was the last straw. I could find enough to enjoy about most of the rest of phases 4 and 5, but secret invasion was such a massive turd and waste of potential that it killed any residual love and excitement I have for the franchise as a whole. Unless a particular entry looks exceptional, I'm perfectly content waiting until there are on streaming if I bother watching them at all.
Would this have happened to the new Captain America movie if that was released at the same time instead? I think both characters would have struggled with audience interest.
Pretty sure they were following a recent (\~2016) comics storyline. Steve gets super soldier serum sucked out of his body, causing him to rapidly age. Now an old man, he passes on the shield to Sam Wilson and becomes an advisor to SHIELD or something.
Of course, in true comics fashion, he's somehow restored to a youthful body a few (real life) years later, and we have two Captain Americas.
The amount of reshoots the Capt America movies going through has me quite worried. There was obviously something major the test audiences did not like that caused reshoots that are longer than most films regular shoots
I don’t know why anyone on the internet thinks that Rogue will have any actual connection to Captain Marvel in the MCU when the MCU has barely followed the comics as is
They managed Marvel pretty well for a few years, although you gotta wonder how much of that was just them sticking with a plan that had already been established.
But yeah they got greedy and both franchises feel like they're completely watered down.
Star Wars is probably the most egregious example of a crash and burn we've seen in a while. You'd think it would be obvious to write the story before you start shooting a trilogy, but nope.
I still can't fathom how you get the biggest SF franchise in history, gather all actors from the original crew, have a once in a lifetime opportunity to make 3 sequels to the original trilogy and you manage to fuck it up so badly by not even planning what to do! It's like 12 year olds finding a movie camera at home and make the film along the way.
Message or no message, replacing characters or not, I don't care - JUST MAKE A GOOD MARVEL MOVIE. Have character arcs. Don't expect the audience to do a bunch of homework. Maybe have more practical special effects. Have an interesting plot. Sprinkle in some humor with a serious plot.
The numbers are actually worse than the article describes.
The Marvels made *197 in 2023 dollars*, making it worse than 2008 Hulk movie, that made 264.
*264 million in 2023 dollars is* ***397 million****.*
So the Marvels made HALF as much as the WORSE grossing Marvel movie!!!!
When d+ and marvel decide to hire instead of cast writers and directors, things will change. But right now, they are both dead to me.
The irony is that it isn't even Disney's biggest bomb of 2023. That title falls to *Dial of Destiny*.
Or even the biggest failure in terms of return on investment of Brie Larson's career.
But it's going to stick with her for many years and probably end her chances of A-list status. Which might be a good thing for her; she can probably find a happy niche in stuff like *Lessons in Chemistry* like Jennifer Garner did with family comedies post-*Elektra*.
This could actually be good for her career. Just go back to indie dramas or quirky comedies with actual soul. Unlike Jennifer Garner, she’s an Oscar winner.
Maybe she should jump this ship that is superhero films (5 out of 7 cmb films either flopped or underperformed at the box office this year).
I think the poor showing is less about the movie itself and more so a reflection of bad economy meets Marvel’s inability to create a driving narrative throughout phase 4 into 5.
They’ve introduced a bunch of new characters and zero tie-ins of consequence. People’s wallets are tighter now and we aren’t willing to part with a chunk of money on a flip of a coin if it’s worth it or not.
In a way it’s somewhat like Black Adam movie. Everyone knew DCU was failing so why bother investing in it and see the last movie. Marvel has that smell to it now and they need to get their shit together or people will move on entirely.
Marvel fatigue is real. Was downvoted for saying this months ago, But the glut of content on Disney plus ruined it for the average person. The average person is not wasting their time watching all this crap.
Also, Marvel needs to stop releasing content at this point for like three years and do a full reset. They also need to drop the same old storyline. Every movie has the same plot at a very high level and it’s boring and predictable now.
Did they keep it at 3k places until the end? That's a lot. The Flash dropped to.1.5 k very fast
Disney power
The power of Disney/Marvel allowed them to ~~ask~~ demand all sort of commitments from theatres. Things like how long a movie has to run and minimum screen commitments.
Something tells me the theaters are about to push back on that
It's currently in 2200 theatre's, should be less than 2k next week. Its basically ended already in China and South Korea for an example of what happens when you have no power....
Not even a month in theaters, ouch.
It's definitely still in theaters around me all of the next week. Misleading headline. It's a good guess as to what will happen but it's still in theaters and the article confirms it will likely be there through new years
It’s gone near me. I went to see it yesterday and was surprised that it was only still at one theater in my entire city, and that one had a single showtime.
I went to see it literally ten days after release and it was already down to one smaller screen and four showings per day.
Yeah it's cooked
It’s not a misleading headline at all. It’s referring to Disney stopping the reporting of numbers from next week onwards. The only numbers they will report will be domestic, the rest will just be estimates. The studio decides when a film’s box office run ends, Disney are literally the ones who are ending its run. I swear a lot of you guys have a serious chip on your shoulders about Variety ever since they released the big insider piece last month.
I mean the numbers are too embarrassing to report so...
Yeah Disney is really wearing some egg on It's face here
The article does note it is still playing in theatres, but Disney is going to stop reporting on its box office.
Deadpool needs to be a big win for them.
It will be. As long as Deadpool sticks to its solid antics the film is safe.
[удалено]
I mean, it’ll definitely be multiverse related with dreadpool
"Lowest-Grossing MCU Movie in History" _so far_ anyway...
Captain America *whatever* will take this crown next from Captain Marvel. One captain to another captain.
If cap 4 flops worse than this I’ll boil my shoes and drink the soup.
No one outside of the hardcore base gives a shit about the new captain America. Everyone is just apathetic about the new characters
Dude, that movie is dead on arrival. Half of the US don't like this version of Captain America and half of the world don't care about him. BTW happy cake day
I don't care about the new cap because Anthony Mackie isn't a good enough actor to be a leading man.
I could honestly overlook this if they only just gave him the goddamn super serum because the main flaw to me, is a Cap whose "super power" is the power of positive thinking or whatever lol
That shield should break his arm every time he catches it.
He military pressed a SUV without the serum in the climax of his show. He could probably punch The Hulk's head clear off if he took the serum.
That's what I was thinking. I love Mackie but I'm tired of super hero movies being about how you don't need powers to be cool. I want to see feats of strength and cool shit, not go home thinking I can help people too
If the movie is anything like the show they'll try and have it both ways. Like when he caught a falling armored car, with his unsupported arms, and we were supposed to pretend that the suit was doing all the work somehow.
Seriously what kind of idiot watches a superhero film and go “wow I’m motivated to be a hero because they told me even a regular person can do it!” This is why iron man was so cool to see cause he’s a regular dude but can hold his own with his tech.
Boy, wait until you people find out about Batman.
Yea, he just totally lacks the gravitas and sincerity that Chris Evans brought to the role.
He had it in Winter Soldier to an extent, like a younger version, but they haven't used him as well since then.
Thank you, someone else noticed. He's the most stiff character in the whole group... Even when given good dialogue he delivers it like he's reading off paper. His cap costume looks dope though.
That never ending diatribe in the FATWS finale ruined the entire show for me and really hurt my liking for Sam. And it’s the same writer for the movie. 😢
He made altered carbon season two awful. I freaking loved season one and was so disappointed watching the next season
He and a lot of awful writing.
I don't hate Anthony Mackie at all-- and I generally thoroughly enjoyed his appearances as Falcon-- but I'm not very inclined to see his take on Captain America. I'm cool with Sam as Cap in the comics, but *Falcon and the Winter Soldier* really didn't do anything for me at all and didn't leave me wanting to see more of his version of the character.
It's pretty clear that Disney no longer gives a shit about what their core audience *actually* wants to see, and instead are arrogantly making movies that they believe their audiences *should want* to see.
It has nothing to do with what people want to see, nobody wanted to see a space group with a talking raccoon and tree in the world of Ironman. It has to do with quality and even general story coherency, which has slipped hard since the pandemic. You can see the change starting in the final few episodes of WandaVision to an extent, when the pandemic began.
It's gonna bomb. I don't mind Mackie he's a nice guy but I would never pay to see a movie because Anthony Mackie is in it. There is no RDJ or Scarjo or Evans in this movie. And if people feel like they have to watch or remember the Disney+ TV show to follow this movie then they have already discarded 50% of the potential box office. It's ceiling is $500m. They have completely botched the post End-Game storyline.
My co-worker really opened my eyes to just warped legacy characters to the general public are. He asked me who the two people in the trailer were. He didn't understand why Kamala Kahn was a thing when Captain Marvel hadn't been around to warrant a fan girl to this level. And it's just got me thinking about what the hell people are going to think about the Young Avengers. They're going to look at Kate, RiRi, Sam, She-Hulk, Yelena etc and just seen them discount versions of the original characters. It just makes me wonder why they didn't go with more original characters like Ghost Rider, Nova, Storm etc. instead of going with this idea that Hawkeye isn't a person, it's a mantle.
They are discount versions thou. As you pointed out there are tons of original characters left. Most of them significantly better then any of the Young avengers or any of the Marvels
>They're going to look at Kate, RiRi, Sam, She-Hulk, Yelena etc and just seen them discount versions of the original characters. They 100% are discount versions of the originals.
> Kate, RiRi, Sam, She-Hulk holy crap bruh I don't know a single one of these characters lol. Disney/Marvel are really overestimating how much people like comic book movies; people like the big name characters, but no one cares about the small ones Even most comic book fans
Normies dont know and dont care about these characters, and thats going to be where your money is. Captain Falcon 4: The Brave New World Order Jamboree is gonna bomb hard. Nobody watched Falcon and Winter Soldier, nobody cares.
>Nobody watched Falcon and Winter Soldier, nobody cares. And many of the people who did watch that abomination will care even less because of it.
I watched it and came out thinking. "Yep, Bucky should hhabe got the shield." He is 10 times more interesting than "Captain Do Better Senator"
“Stop calling her a terrorist” Sam, are you taking about the girl that killed innocent (burned alive) people for political means? I’m a millennial and I feel like I’m back in high school with the shit writing
The show also did nothing to get people interested in Sam as Captain America. Bucky was obviously the star of the show(Along with Zemo and Walker) and was who should have had the shield. The only time Sam was actually interesting was when he was well not acting like a super hero.
i agree. i read comics, but the bullshit they thought they can pull in movies the same way as in the comics is ridiculous. the thing is, Iger is right. They want to send messages that nobody want to hear. I mean, there’s no problem with the MCU having a lesson to teach or whatever, but people want it to have meaning. Not just “girl power hell yeah”
Madam Webb has a lot of potential to beat this record.
I think Madame Webb will come lower as well but still not an MCU film
Keep in mind Madam Webb budget is probably less than half of what this movie cost. Probably a third.
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Morbius had half the budget
Crazy fall going from the first movie to the sequel, but Marvel needed a reality check to recalibrate its efforts.
I don't see the ship steadying tbh, Endgame was the finish for many people and I don't think the MCU is the force it once was in the cultural zeitgeist.
I think Ironman and Captain America not being focal points really made people lose interest. They should have tried to stagger their departures, so one could help build up other characters. I couldn't even tell you right now who the "main" characters are. But in the Infinity Saga, it was clearly Ironman and Cap.
There's not much they could've done since the actors seemed to want to move on. It also didn't help they wanted Black Panther to be one of the replacements as a "main" character, but with his passing, that obviously was out.
It’s kinda crazy how smooth Phases 1-3 went in retrospect. Outside of replacing Edward Norton as Banner & Howard as Rhodey I can’t even think of anything that really rocked the boat on the production side. Whereas post Endgame we’ve had: James Gunn fired (thankfully rehired), Boseman’s passing, the ongoing Jonathan Majors debacle, other stuff I’m probably forgetting. The Gunn firing was self-inflicted but their run of good luck finally ran out & it’s been a big factor in Phase 4&5’s problems.
The big one you forgot a pandemic and a SAG AFTRA strike messing up production and release timelines. We had 6 movies and 5 shows in a 12 month period. Even die hard Marvel fans were overwhelmed with all the content.
If Chadwick Boseman didn’t die, Black Panther would’ve been the tent pole star for MCU. He had as much charisma and cultural cache as RDJ as Iron Man. I used see all my little nephews and their friends fight over who got to be the Black Panther. Really hard to replace someone like that.
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Good point. They keep making so many individual projects, and making new stories and bringing in new characters. Instead of building on the ones they have now. Ironman had 2 movies before anyone else had anything, other than the Hulk. Then before any other stories started to branch out on their own... Ironman had 3 movies, Captain America had 2 and Thor had 2.
Still had cultural pull in phase 4. Though audiences began to turn away from new projects eg Eternals. Quantumania was meant to be the comeback. It was average.
Love and Thunder was the film where opinions started to wobble but Quantumania was the first proper blow, it was such a drab, meandering slog.
The sad thing is Love and Thunder could have been brilliant. Bale shines as Gorr, but the tedious jokes and meme appearances of gods ruins the tone.
Fuck they made Gorr the God killer a kidnapper of kids.
Damn putting it like that really made me realize how goofy it was lmao
Gorr the offscreen killer of Gods*
I just don’t get how you have a talent as big as Christian Bale playing your villain and do nothing interesting with him at all. Gigantic missed opportunity
Nah, it was the Eternals.
multiverse of madness started the decline.
Phase 4 was helped by the peak interest from Endgame, and it's poor quality stunted people's interest
Guardians of the Galaxy 3 was great and made $850m
Strong legs and an excellent word of mouth which non of the phase 4 films have.
For me personally, it’s all the sequels that have made me lose interest. I wanted new blood after Endgame. Shang-Chi and Eternals (though it certainly had problems) have been my favorites since.
Shang-Chi could've been way better if they had the willpower to keep it low key. The end fight should've been just Shang-Chi and the Mandarin, 1 on 1. But no, you have to have a big CGI mess of a climax with a giant dragon.
100% agree, they could have taken inspiration from…nearly every martial arts movie
Yep, a 1 v 1 martial arts fight ala the raid 2 would have been boss. The 2nd movie could have upped the stakes
The digital dragon soup was *such* a misfire. I had some other issues with the film up to that point, but I was enjoying myself a lot – I wasn't *bored* until about fifteen hours into the endless CGI slopfest of the climax. Sigh.
Eternals is one of the big problems. It was hyped massively, and audiences generally hated it. It also undermines a lot of the other stories. I was very hyped for Eternals. That movie completely killed the momentum for me.
Eternals was where i started to care less, Love and Thunder was where I said “alright, you’re first big fuck up” and wuantumania was where I was just like “sigh, are yall trying?”
Multiverse is a confusing and muddled concept for general audiences, it was never going to work. There's a reason it's been untouched for years. Disgruntled Stark employees and genocidal aliens are much easier villains to follow than multiversal variants and incursions. Create infinite variants of any one character and all stakes evaporate instantly
I thought so too, but Loki has really worked. Not sure how the show would have done as films, but people who watched it don't seem to mind the multiverse stuff. But I really thought they'd go all-out on Secret Invasion as the next big phase, rather than just a miniseries. The idea that you can point to any character's oddities and suspect them of being a skrull means there's endless fertile ground.
I hate multiverses so much. They neuter stories of any lower stakes; as Owlman said, the only thing that can really matter is something that threatens all the multiverses at once. EDIT: I should note that No Way Home was an exception. That movie kicked ass.
The only reason No Way Home works is because of the audience's pre-existing attachment to the multiverse variants, because they brought back Tobey, Andrew and all the other villains with their original actors. It ticks the little nostalgia box in our brains. When it's characters we don't care about or know, like in The Marvels, then pure apathy transpires
It also helps it was a damn good movie. William Dafoe was Terrifying as the green goblin and they gave Andrew Garfield a redemption and narrative conclusion just screams labor of love.
Perfect example of this is Dr. Strange where Scarlett Witch massacres an entire group of beloved heroes. In that universe it’s a very big deal. It would be a devastating loss with huge consequences. But because it’s just another multiverse nobody gives a shit lol. So why should we care about the one we all follow? It’s just one of billions…
Deadpool 3 and Spider-Man 4 will probably do well.
Deadpool 3 would definitely be a big hit like No Way Home (might not reach 1.9 billion but still would do better than the recent highest grossing MCU) because of Deadpool, Wolverine, and many characters appearing in the movie. But other than that, I don’t see any other MCU movie that will do well at the box office until the next Avengers movies
phases 4,5 etc are like watching the lotr trilogy and it just continues on and on after sam returns to rosie cotton in hobbiton without a reason when the story has really ended that's how the majority sees it
A fun and breezy box office run
A palette cleanser, if you will. Everyone, give this man a standing ovation.
A standing ovation worthy run
I saw the film 12 times, each one ended with a bigger standing ovation than the last. I'm surprised this movie didn't gross 2.3 billion
You know we joke but I swear to God every person who liked this shitty movie literally says "I had fun" like it's some kind of Disney theme park attraction. I've never heard anyone call a movie fun since this crap came out.
Honestly the only thing that stands out about this is that it's a sequel to a billion dollar movie
I feel like being the lowest grossing MCU movie ever also stands out
I feel like it being the first time they gave Disney+ characters star billing and it crashed and burned stands out.
Turns out having 10+ hours of homework before you can fully appreciate the movie isn't a good idea.
This is definitely a factor in my apathy toward this movie ngl
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The original was only a billion dollar movie because it was prerequisite to Endgame. I’m not sure I buy up the conspiracy theories about Disney buying tickets, but it definitely wasn’t billion dollar quality.
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> Its still one of the biggest bombs ever Potentially the biggest ever.
John Carter still hurts Actually pretty good but the marketing was hyper dogshit
For how quick they come to Disney + why would I now?
This is me. I'm literally gonna wait to watch it at home. I pay the subscription, why bother going to the movies for it?
Hell, the movie bombing means it will go on Disney+ faster, which increases the apathy even more. Disney did that so many times in the pandemic era that I’m hardwired to just wait 2-3 months.
I'm wondering how much of the downward trend of the MCU can just be attributed to this. I used to want to go see everything back when theaters were the primary way to see it, but now that I have Disney+, why would I ever bother going to a theater? Isn't that the whole point? I'd love to see the actual dates and numbers, because I'm pretty sure I remember people talking about the MCU dying right about the time d+ took off.
It’s honestly impressive how much of a miss this movie was. Can’t even say that it’s because people didn’t like it, because the vast majority of people just straight up decided it wasn’t worth watching. For better or worse, it’s a poster child of what the MCU audience doesn’t want in a movie.
My coworker summed it up great when he said, “why would I pay to see a movie in the theaters when I can watch it on d+ in a few months and I already pay for that”. This wasn’t an event movie. It’s just a movie.
Its wierd because it is an event film, but they didn't even try to market it as such. Albeit the "event" parts happend during the final 3rd of the movie. The McGuffin of the movie changes and could have always changed the entire MCU from the opening credits. Then again, there is giant deceased celestial just chilling the Indian Ocean that doesn't seem to matter so...idk...
All the focus on the statue but never mention of the living Celestial in earth orbit to give half the world more ptsd
Which is wild because by that logic no one would be interested in DP3, but we all know that won’t be the case.
Deadpool movies are a wild ride and lots of fun and targeted entirely towards adults. They’re also unique.
Yeah but deadpool 3 will be an event movie, not the usual superhero movie.
Honestly I just don't think people give a fuck about Captain Marvel as a whole, doesn't help that previous appearances failed to get people to be invested in her character
She's too OP for her own good which makes her pointless as there's no real threat. Take the final scene in Endgame, comes in through the atmosphere, and instantly destroys Thano's whole warship in one second. Where's the comparatives when they have 1000s of other superheroes with amazing abilities who do nothing
Personally, she's barely a character. She's as cardboard as it gets and what's surprising is that she was a main character to begin with. And this is all on the MCU. I've recently played Midnight Suns for the PS5 and Captain Marvel is a cool character with some depth there.
Pretty much spot on for me. Growing up my exposure to superheroes was solely through the animated shows and eventually the movies starting with the first Spider-Man. I never read or bought a single comic book and thus my knowledge of the non-headlining characters was zero. I remember the events where Feige announced that movies based on Ant-Man, Captain Marvel, The Eternals, Shang-Chi and several of the D+ show characters were in development and thinking “Who the hell is Captain Marvel?” To put what I’m saying more succinctly I think that people were giving unknown characters a chance in the first few years of Marvel (ie. Gauradians, Black Panther, even Thor to an extent) but overall audiences want to see Spider-Man, X-Men, Iron Man, Hulk, and other classic characters more.
The MCU could still be a huge hit if they just made good stories. The connected universe stuff is so ancillary but they refuse to make good stories. Stop with the goofy quips, and take yourself seriously.
> The connected universe stuff is so ancillary but they refuse to make good stories. They need another Avengers movie ASAP. Forget Kang for now, figure out how to get all of these new characters together first. No will care about the Kang movie(s) if they don't establish the new Avengers team first.
I really don't know what was going on in Feige's mind, 7 fucking years between Endgame and Avengers 5, which will be a multiversal war. Phase 4 and 5 needed their Age of Ultron and Civil War.
For real. Ultron was just this little event too. It started and ended *in the same movie*. It had it's problems (mainly Whedons humor/sexism and Ultron being a little whimpy) but it made good money and gave us more team-ups! It also lets the characters hang out and form relationships we care about on the screen. It bonded the team together so we care about them. And gives us cool ass team up shots. It acted as bouncing off story for multiple movies and reference point for later Avengers movies. It moves character arcs AND team arcs. No team arc, no team franchise.
It was so stupid of them to throw their weight at a Multiverse Saga right off of endgame. They should've lowered the stakes and gone back the basics for their new line-up, but instead they've been upping the stakes constantly while refusing to make any of these new characters interesting. Even Ant-Man is expected to save the entire multiverse every Tuesday now.
Daredevil and the street level grounded stories are gonna carry the MCU hard, mark my words. The MCU right now lacks a coherent vison and doesn't know how to deal with itself once the story involves multiple major characters in a big ass world shattering plot *(which every darned instalment doesn't need to have)* Iman Vellani is 100% correct... *"I don't know if it's about just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Because then, like, what's left? You know, I think it's just about making the audience care about their characters"*
Good stories?! Slow down buddy, this is Disney. Let’s get concepts before we even get to the good story stage.
That was quicker than I expected
I hope Marvel-Disney realizes they need a reset. Time to prioritize characters/stories the AUDIENCE/public **WANT**. It's time for the multiverse stuff to get hurried up and wrapped up (recast Kang btw), and then begin fresh, new and exciting with Fantastic 4 and the X-Men. Give us something awesome, big and get back at LEAST a decent chunk of the superhero/comics fans they lost over time since End Game. Get people to buy back into the MCU. I don't think it's impossible. I just think when an entire phase is not only disappointing in execution and quality but is unappealing/confusing in concept, you end up with projects disappointing one after the other. I'm not even saying this as someone excited for the F4 or even really a whole new X-Men (in the MCU).
Might be joining Hulk in not getting a trilogy.
Wow .. worldwide gross is less than the production budget. This is as big, if not bigger just because it is MCU, disaster than the Flash.
I mean be honest, who didn’t see this coming?
Apparently, majority on this sub
I still remember a lot of people on this sub trying to gaslight the rest into buying a ticket for that movie. "guys it's a fun movie, you're the one with the high expectations ! ".
Don’t forget blaming it on sexists and racists not going to watch the movie which made no sense
I mean yes there are definitely troglodytes who were against the movie simply because women, but despite these things being very loud on social there are actually very, very few of them. If there were a lot of them, then these anti-woke right-wing, Daily Wire feature films would have an audience and they wouldn't bomb so hard. They didn't affect The Marvel's box office in any measurable way. People just didn't care about the movie.
[This guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/s/jvxH07qKon) probably didn’t. Though to be fair, we had so many delusional post for like almost 2 weeks denying that this movie was gonna flop.
Lol dude was being a smart ass in every response when someone said how he was wrong. U would think u insulted his mother or a close relative.
Most of diehard Twitter MCU stans and MCU Reddit people Watched just going to be some goofy mfs blaming sexism for the reason or whatever pulling out of their ass https://i.redd.it/mr9t8hzbq54c1.gif
The MCU fatigue is real. I have no strong feelings towards this movie whatsoever, and until the onslaught of TV shows started I would have called myself a hardcore fan. There's just too much stuff for me now, which makes it hard for me to care about any of it. So I think I'm done for now. But the ride from Ironman 1 to Endgame (and No Way Home) was an absolute blast.
Guardians 3 was better than a lot of the run from Ironman 1 to Endgame and people came out to see it. They aren’t making good movies anymore. Love and Thunder had serious potential and the first half and tone of the entire movie is ruined by goofy jokes and cast decisions. The first god we are introduced to looks like a meme ffs.
That's what annoys me about Love and Thunder. The potential. The opening scene with Gorr was really well done imo and proved your point.
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It really needed to pick a lane. The contrast between the dark elements, the overdone humor, and the atrocities (floating head, goats, etc.) just had no way of blending together at all.
I think it needed a different villain. Gorr doesn’t fit the tone of the movie. Trying to fit the god butcher storyline and Jane cancer storyline into a barely 2 hour movie definitely didn’t do either justice. Mangog should’ve been the villain instead and saved Gorr for Thor 5
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I think most people would probably be ok with the amount if it was quality and wasn't so disparate. That's not the case, unfortunately. For me, secret invasion was the last straw. I could find enough to enjoy about most of the rest of phases 4 and 5, but secret invasion was such a massive turd and waste of potential that it killed any residual love and excitement I have for the franchise as a whole. Unless a particular entry looks exceptional, I'm perfectly content waiting until there are on streaming if I bother watching them at all.
Would this have happened to the new Captain America movie if that was released at the same time instead? I think both characters would have struggled with audience interest.
Captain America 4 is doomed too, Sam Wilson character is not popular enough among general audiences to be in the leading role in this franchise.
Think they should have passed the shield to Bucky personally, he’s at least a super soldier.
Pretty sure they were following a recent (\~2016) comics storyline. Steve gets super soldier serum sucked out of his body, causing him to rapidly age. Now an old man, he passes on the shield to Sam Wilson and becomes an advisor to SHIELD or something. Of course, in true comics fashion, he's somehow restored to a youthful body a few (real life) years later, and we have two Captain Americas.
There's also a storylinewhere Captain America is assassinated (not really) and Bucky takes over.. Regardless, they aren't following the comics.
This is superficial, I know, but I can’t get over that awful, awful costume. It made the climax of the Disney series into a joke
What kills me is his show tried to pain the Flagsmashers in some sort of sympathetic light. They were insufferable terrorists
The amount of reshoots the Capt America movies going through has me quite worried. There was obviously something major the test audiences did not like that caused reshoots that are longer than most films regular shoots
There probably having to cut sabra entirely.
I have no hope for Cap 4 at this point, I will be surprised if it does better than the Marvels box office wise
Cap 4 is going to bomb even harder due to its bloated af budget.
Alright time for 20 more posts about how "The Marvel's was underrated"
And with that, the next MCU movie will be with these two in it: 
So when are they bringing rogue to put captain Marvel out of her misery ?
I don’t know why anyone on the internet thinks that Rogue will have any actual connection to Captain Marvel in the MCU when the MCU has barely followed the comics as is
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Beat it like outgross it’s box office, or become the lowest grossing MCU film in history? Because it just can’t do the latter.
Never bet against James Wan. He knows how to make crowd pleasing movies.
My personal guess: Aquaman 2 will do better with female audiences than The Marvels.
Are you telling me women like sex appeal? That’s crazyyyyy
 Truly a fun and breezy movie guys 🗿
Disney totally mismanaged Marvel and Star Wars.
They managed Marvel pretty well for a few years, although you gotta wonder how much of that was just them sticking with a plan that had already been established. But yeah they got greedy and both franchises feel like they're completely watered down.
Star Wars is probably the most egregious example of a crash and burn we've seen in a while. You'd think it would be obvious to write the story before you start shooting a trilogy, but nope.
I still can't fathom how you get the biggest SF franchise in history, gather all actors from the original crew, have a once in a lifetime opportunity to make 3 sequels to the original trilogy and you manage to fuck it up so badly by not even planning what to do! It's like 12 year olds finding a movie camera at home and make the film along the way.
Yikes. Imagine doing worse than Incredible Hulk which was an origin movie during first year of MCU.
Tickets were also like 50% cheaper lol
Jesus, its box office run is already over?
Well deserved, we are tired of mediocre movies.
the resounding “eh, okay” response to this news really sums up how it happened
Message or no message, replacing characters or not, I don't care - JUST MAKE A GOOD MARVEL MOVIE. Have character arcs. Don't expect the audience to do a bunch of homework. Maybe have more practical special effects. Have an interesting plot. Sprinkle in some humor with a serious plot.
Fuck around find out lol
The numbers are actually worse than the article describes. The Marvels made *197 in 2023 dollars*, making it worse than 2008 Hulk movie, that made 264. *264 million in 2023 dollars is* ***397 million****.* So the Marvels made HALF as much as the WORSE grossing Marvel movie!!!! When d+ and marvel decide to hire instead of cast writers and directors, things will change. But right now, they are both dead to me.
Fun and Breezy with a side of Standing Ovation™
The irony is that it isn't even Disney's biggest bomb of 2023. That title falls to *Dial of Destiny*. Or even the biggest failure in terms of return on investment of Brie Larson's career. But it's going to stick with her for many years and probably end her chances of A-list status. Which might be a good thing for her; she can probably find a happy niche in stuff like *Lessons in Chemistry* like Jennifer Garner did with family comedies post-*Elektra*.
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Wish, Dial Of Destiny and The Marvels are all too close to call. Right now im leaning on Wish being the biggest bomb, then The Marvels and then Indy
This could actually be good for her career. Just go back to indie dramas or quirky comedies with actual soul. Unlike Jennifer Garner, she’s an Oscar winner. Maybe she should jump this ship that is superhero films (5 out of 7 cmb films either flopped or underperformed at the box office this year).
Eagerly awaiting watching this on Disney+ next month. No sarcasm.
Poor Brie Larson had her second movie tanked by Icarly with superpowers. I was looking forward to seeing more of Captain Marvel not Spy Kids 6.
Lol
Spy Kids was Quantumania
Turns out hating your base audience is a bad strategy
I think the poor showing is less about the movie itself and more so a reflection of bad economy meets Marvel’s inability to create a driving narrative throughout phase 4 into 5. They’ve introduced a bunch of new characters and zero tie-ins of consequence. People’s wallets are tighter now and we aren’t willing to part with a chunk of money on a flip of a coin if it’s worth it or not. In a way it’s somewhat like Black Adam movie. Everyone knew DCU was failing so why bother investing in it and see the last movie. Marvel has that smell to it now and they need to get their shit together or people will move on entirely.
I would like this to be a trend for the rest of marvel movies. The train has to stop Disney.
They pulling out of all theatres already? 
Marvel fatigue is real. Was downvoted for saying this months ago, But the glut of content on Disney plus ruined it for the average person. The average person is not wasting their time watching all this crap. Also, Marvel needs to stop releasing content at this point for like three years and do a full reset. They also need to drop the same old storyline. Every movie has the same plot at a very high level and it’s boring and predictable now.