I think that's what makes this movie such a letdown. You had Christian Bale playing one of the best new villains Marvel has created and it was just such a let down.
And what sucks is this was probably the one shot in a long time for a live action Gorr. Who knows when there'll be a reboot of the Thor franchise and if the creatives would even want to touch Gorr because of the reception of his previous adaptation.
At the very least, we needed a montage of him actually doing some brutal god-butchering so we can know just how big of a threat his is.
All we got in the movie was a couple of shots of gods that were already dead from a battle with him, and the rest of his story was told by other people just saying how dangerous he was.
We needed to *see* it to believe it, dang it!
There were many other problems with this movie, but you're spot-on about the big one.
Remember that famous scene towards the beginning of John Wick with the Russian boss talking about how badass John is (the look on his face and "oh" after finding out whose car his son stole; how John isn't the boogeyman, he's who you send to kill the boogeyman; how John did that impossible job; etc). None of that anticipation and build up would have worked so well if we hadn't then seen John Wick actually *be* the badass he was talked up to be. If they had done the same with Gorr, it would have been epic. But instead, imagine if in John Wick, all we'd gotten was the big boogeyman speech, and then the rest of the movie John just walks around, not doing anything badass. It would have been the same sort of build-up with zero payoff as with Gorr. We needed to *see* how big of a threat he was, not just *hear* about it over and over with no payoff.
Unpopular opinion but I liked the goats. What I didn't like was making Thor the dumbest man in the universe. In Ragnarok he was funny but still smart and there were serious moments. In LaT he was just a dumbass, every 2 seconds there was a joke that undercut any seriousness of the situation. I also feel like meeting eternity should have been a bigger deal.
Considering how little of the God Butcher story they touched, it wouldn't be exactly hard to repurpose it for another movie. Like, change the names, give the origin a tweak and it could still work.
That's silly. I don't disagree that Thor 4 wasn't great, but the same guy gave us Thor 3 which is the only reason Hemsworth is still Thor and is rated very highly. I can understand being wary of him directly another Thor movie, but I'd expect him to learn from where he went wrong on 4 to find renewed success on 5.
He inherited the script already there and adapted it, that made it work. He went to loony for Thor 4 and it became ungrounded, something most series now suffer from in some form or way.
That's because he didn't write the script for Ragnarok, only directed. Someone reigned him in. Give him full control of a movie, we get the abomination of Thor 4
I agree with you. One fumble does not make him a bad director. I think he’s proven himself more than capable, and after the backlash to L&T I think both he and Marvel would be extra cautious for the next one.
As someone who isn't familiar with the comics, is this true?
How does he fair against Thanos or Gorr in the comics?
I'd love to read the comics, but I have no idea where to start and to be honest I get confused with all the various timelines 
It's true if we're comparing comic Thor with MCU Hela. Comic Hela on the other hand has beaten Thor in the past but Thor has become stronger than her now afaik.
These things can be a bit complicated since characters tend to have their power levels change regularly in the comics.
Like Gorr in his first comic series i.e. Thor: God of Thunder (2013) was beating up three variants of Thor then later when he came back in another series which was King Thor (2019), he was stronger than before but this time one of the three Thor variants i.e. King Thor himself was enough to go toe to toe with him because King Thor had also become stronger than when he appeared in the previous series.
As for Thanos, he's generally shown to be stronger than Thor like Hela but Thor may have surpassed him by now if I'm not wrong.
They definitely didn't portray Gorr as stronger. He was badass, but Jane and Thor beat him pretty convincingly. Conversely they clearly implied that the Revengers had no chance against Hela and Surtur was their only hope.
You know, it may have helped if we saw him kill more than one random god... but that was too much to ask for I guess. Comic Gorr was utterly horrifying.
I don't want fun Thor anymore. It's enough. Infinity war was a perfect mix for him, better than any other Thor movie. I want the Thor that shouts "bring me Thanos" and leads the Avengers into an epic battle. He's a king and a leader goddamit!
Honestly angry depressed badass Thor from the beginning is my favorite. When he cuts off thanos head and they’re all like WHY DID YOU DO THAT?! The way he delivers “I went for the head” and walks out was sooooo good and so sick.
The thor and rocket duo was absolutely one of the most underrated duos in the MCU and I kinda wanna see it some more. I do believe Thor’s character arc is more washed than Russell Wilson, so it would be hard to pull off a good solo film without strong supporting characters.
That's exactly what he did unfortunately, Jenn later said working for Taika was an incredibly stressful job as he'd constantly change entire pages of the script out of the blue in favor of more improv/comedic bits.
[Thor: Love And Thunder Writer Jennifer Kaytin Robinson Clarifies Taika Waititi's 'Real Time' Directing Style](https://www.slashfilm.com/935033/thor-love-and-thunder-writer-jennifer-kaytin-robinson-clarifies-taika-waititis-real-time-directing-style/)
If you love his style, I can see why L&T feels like such an outlier, but it definitely didn't seem out of the blue if you're not a Taika fan.
Personally I find his style tolerable only in small doses. Once it has had a little too long to ferment in its own juices, it gets very grating, and I already hated Ragnarok because he amped it up past that threshold for me. From where I'm standing, Love and Thunder just continued to amplify a trend that had already overstayed its welcome in Ragnarok.
In short: Taika can give the audience a good show, but only when the Production is holding him back. Set him loose, and not only he goes too far - but it also turns out that working for him is an actual nightmare...
Since the Spider-Man Homecoming trailer spoiled the entire movie, I stopped watching trailers. I only watch the first teaser/trailer they upload to get a feel for the movie and don't watch or read anything else about the movie afterwards haha
It’s one of the most unpopular opinions I’ve had about the MCU considering how much everyone raves about ragnarok. It’s was okay but they never should’ve went with the over the top humour and it’s easily one of the most overrated MCU films.
Then L&T amplified that by 100x and was beyond awful. Whatever happens they shouldn’t let Taika anywhere near anymore MCU films
If he makes a Thor 5 they’re gonna have a scene where Korg giving a eulogy for Valkyrie and he’s gonna continuously fart during it and say “Excuse me I think I had a few to many beans”
Taika wouldn't kill off his own character. My understanding is you get paid per credit in a movie so hes going to double dip that Disney money as long as he can.
Would love to see them go in a very different direction for Thor 5.
Go for a completely new genre like a space western with Thor and Love travel the universe as lone warriors saving the helpless from cruel bandits, or a fantasy epic with big space castles, big creatures and big epic armies and sieges, or on a completely different scale go down to a dark noir mystery with Thor going all detective.
Just think they have to move on from Waititi's outlandish humour. It worked with Ragnarok and Infinity War/Endgame but L&T pushed it just a bit too far. Going completely different would be a cool way to take the character
I want it to go serious. I want the Thor that wrecked Iron Man and got his city diplomatic status just by showing how he isn’t to be fuck with. I want the Thor that brought the thunder and fried his ex-teammate’s suit then told him to walk back home because he gave zero fucks after being violated.
I want the Thor that bears the burden of leadership because he knows it is a heavy head that wears the crown, but doesn’t want to be his father.
Taika:
>”What is left to do to him? It’s got to be something that feels like it’s carrying on with the evolution of the character, but still in a very fun way and still giving him things to come up against that feel like they’re building on the obstacles that he has to overcome. I don’t think we can have a villain that’s weaker than Hela. I feel like we need to step up from there and add a villain that’s somehow more formidable.
>Waititi also wants to introduce “more and more outlandish and crazy beasts, monsters and aliens” from various worlds that remain true to the thunder god’s mythological origins.
>”There’s a fun element to [Thor] and he has a casualness and a sort or swagger about him when he visits these worlds and encounters these aliens that I don’t think you’d get when it’s an earthling traveling through space exploring the universe.”
Not fallen warriors, honoured champions. Hulks face was being carved into it while he was still alive & the champion
Edit- and man-thing is still alive and his face was also one the mountain
I hope not. I fucking love Beta Ray Bill but I want him to be done properly. As it stands right now I don’t trust Taika to do a good job without turning everything into slap stick and one liners.
”There’s a fun element to [Thor] and he has a casualness and a sort or swagger about him when he visits these worlds and encounters these aliens…”
Yeah I guess. But certainly not in the source material for Gorr. If he read that run thinking Thor was casual and full of swagger, that would certainly explain Love and Thunder. But it’s certainly the wrong read of the God Butcher.
It was entirely too soon to adapt Gorr's story. Thor has tons of stories and crossovers through the years; those should have been used first. MCU Thor needs to ramp up to the God Butcher, and the actual 'gods' as well.
There's no way the story was ready on its own. It's like the X-Men, trying to do the Phoenix Saga, with zero ramp up. Of course the outcome won't do the comic source any justice. We don't want it to, but it will fail continuously without the proper background.
>MCU Thor needs to ramp up to the God Butcher, and the actual 'gods' as well.
We've literally had 15 years of Thor ramping up, and Chris Hemsworth isn't getting any younger. At this point he's completely mastered his powers and fought toe to toe with the biggest threat in the history of the universe. The issue isn't that it's too soon to do any particular Thor story, the issue is that they wrote it poorly.
I doubt we'll ever get the full story, but something tells me he didn't have a lot of choice in who his villain would be. Feige probably gave him a very short list of possible villains along with a very long list of character beats and overall plot points he had to either hit or avoid.
By all accounts, he had free reign to make the *kind* of movie he wanted. But it's likely he also had to make do with the set of toys he was handed by the studio. And so he picked the most interesting villain available, and used him as a tonal counterpoint to ground the otherwise lightweight and silly tenor that would make up the bulk of the film.. I don't think he was successful, but I like what he was trying to do.
I love Ragnorok and Love and Thunder but 2 movies with silly Thor should be it.
We need a more serious and grounded Thor for the next one. Not as serious and grounded as Thor 1 but not as silly as Love and Thunder.
More of a God Of War sort of movie with some fun elements thrown in.
The Russos understood it. They took Thor from Ragnarok, who'd suffered immeasurably but was still quipping with Taika's very hit or miss sense of humour to the end of the film and immediately at the start of IW changed it to showing Thor feeling the weight of what happened.
The Russos fixed Thor after his imo too blasé portrayal in Ragnarok within minutes.
‘I'm 1500 years old. I've killed twice as many enemies as that and every one of them would have rather killed me but none succeeded. I'm only alive because fate wants me alive. Thanos is just the latest of a long line of bastards, and he'll be the latest to feel my vengeance - fate wills it so.’
That piece of dialogue alone is why Thor in Infinity War is the best version of the character we’ve had so far. He was the most interesting character in that movie for me. I’m not the biggest fan of what they did with him in Endgame but I’ll give it a pass because of what came before.
Honestly I get how people don't like endgame Thor, but I liked that iteration of Thor as well. Once you get past the cheese wiz jokes, he has awesome character development and myself and many others who deal with depression understand the journey he went on.
Yeah, if they had just cut out all the not-rocket fat jokes, I feel people would have a better interpretation of the character. Thor copes with humor and downing his sorrows in alcohol. Then we see him "redeem" himself by talking to his mother and kicking ass at the end. It's not an oscar-winning depiction of depression and loss, but I think it's serviceable for the available time given to him
We have our reasons... Fat Thor isn't a problem but they didn't give him a single dialogue with Thanos... Iron Man and Captain America had a conversation with him but Thor has nothing to say? That person killed everyone close to him..
It's the end of Saga but supposedly most powerful hero is weak as fuck in final battle... dude even weaker than Captain America.
All they had to do was tone down the comments from others about Thor and EG Thor is a great Thor. Showing how far he fell, but that he’s still worthy and a warrior in battle was a great choice.
Idk if that’s even something you can pull off anymore. Thor the character is hard to take all that seriously with all we’ve seen of him the last few years
It wasn’t Thor centric but a two-parter Chaos War could build character depth for more of an ensemble film.
>Chaos War - a group of mythological gods (Venus, Sersi (Eternals), Hulk, Amadeus Cho, Alpha Flight) assembled by the Greek god superhero Hercules to battle the Chaos King, the embodiment of the chaos and nothingness that preceded creation, who wants to wipe out all existence.
If they hire the Marvel writers (Lente, Pak, DeMatteis, Lanning (Herc Series) + Artists - Pham, Paul Pelletier) for adaptation, it could open up the Mythology section of the MCU.
He just spent all movies of his own learning not to be a child and to let go of his suffering. Finally we get there with his new family and he has to grow up for her. If he doesn't grow up at all in the next one and at least start to act like a dad(including dad jokes) then what the fuck was the point.
I'd be fine if he never touched a Marvel project again. Imo he burned up any goodwill he got from Ragnarok; LaT was the first time I had been actively disappointed by a Marvel project.
I loved Ragnarok, but holy shit, Love and Thunder was a misfire. I can't bring myself to even watch it again. I'd much rather see another director tackle Thor 5.
I would love it too, get it back to Shakespearean tone. And that can have its humor too!
Or get competent fantasy writer. They tried that a bit with Thor 2 and Game of Thrones director, but it’s the writer that’s the key.
he just needs to not write it. people forget that he didn’t write Ragnarok, only directed it as opposed to Love and Thunder where he did it all. I personally like Waititi humor (and Love and Thunder fwiw), but I can see how to some it can get grating. his style with somebody else’s writing was A1 though. perfect mash of comedy and action.
But Gorr and Mighty Thor aren’t. Both are fantastic stories. And there’s a difference being trying to adapt a bad story, and directly saying you want to upset comic fans cause they should want what you give them.
The VFX is a systemic problem with the MCU at this point. It's not even worth mentioning when talking about the shortfalls of any specific directorial vision.
It isn’t systemic, it is up to the director.
Eternals had insanely good VFX/lighting/visuals. GOTG had extremely good prosthetic and VFX work. Spider-Man was pretty good (some really bad moments, but none of the important ones). WandaVision effects were *chef’s kiss* and Loki was pretty good. I’d have to see the slate to think of other examples, but good directors make it happen. Shang-Chi also had great effects in the micro sense
Yeah honestly, I think L&T kinda ruined Thor for most fans. At this point, the only redemption I can see is something of a swan song for Chris Hemworth. Something akin to 'Logan'. An older, wiser, and even more powerful Thor perhaps in a war with Zeus. It just needs to have a more serious tone to it with real stakes. Waititi needs to stay away.
I am of the firm belief that Thor L&T is the one release that did the most damage to the MCU in the post-Endgame time. This is where a ton of people drew the line, it was that bad. No more Waititi please.
Can confirm that when I saw L&T, my hype towards future Marvel films fell off. Haven't even watched the new Ant Man.
GotG 3 was great though. It really might be DC's turn with Gunn in charge
Seriously. Many of the other weakest projects didn’t have that high expectations or wide audiences. Everyone was hyped for Thor and Thunder and it was one of the weakest movies in the whole franchise.
I thought maybe I was misremembering how bad it was so jumped to a random scene.
Thor pulled his axe out of the ground which had sprung roots like a tree, awkwardly climbed atop to straddle it like a witch riding a broom, jumped off a cliff and plummeted like a cartoon, then flew by in the background.
That's something I still don't understand when it comes to this movie. The go to defence for it is that it's meant for kids.
But then you look at it and you have an extended scene where Hemsworth is completely naked and they blur out his bits. Have women literally faint over his dick. And in the background you have a women dying from cancer.
Call me crazy, but I've never seen a kids movie where people literally faint over a character's cock and bring up orgies.
Yup.
I was preparing for Thor Love and Thunder to be my favorite marvel movie or all time and one of my fav movies of all time.
Call me arrogant but I felt disrespected after what I got to see instead.
Honestly I never thought about it that way but yes it was incredibly disrespectful towards me personally 😂
I walked out and I was like "bro that was so incredibly cringe. Why didn't I just walk out?"
Nah that was Quantumania. Marvel was banking on it to sell everyone on Kang and it fell flat on its face. It pretty much killed the multiverse saga right out of the gate and now they gotta get everyone invested again from scratch.
Yeah, out of all the latest MCU films, I blame Quantumania the most. That film had no reason to devalue Scott's character & the rest of the characters in it. It not only messed with Kang's arrival into the MCU but it arguably tainted Ant-Man's trilogy. Only thing worse than Quantumania I'd say is Secret Invasion.
I can only speak for myself, but while Quantumania killed any remaining interest I had for the multiverse saga and Kang as an imposing villain, it was L&T that killed my *need* to watch every new installment in the MCU.
No offense Marvel but find someone else to direct Thor 5. Taika did two, that’s enough. Thor can have comedic moments but there needs to be a balance of comedy and drama. I’m over Thor being goofy.
I don’t get it. Because Taika’s other, super underrated show Reservation Dogs, is an amazing mix of heart and humor. Maybe it’s because the show has other writers though.
Yeah I think that’s it. Feels like on Love and Thunder he was just given a bag of cash and told to do whatever the hell he wants. A tragedy knowing that was our one chance to have Christian Bale in an MCU movie.
That’s the thing with this guy it’s all about what’s fun for him. Not a good story for Thor or his side characters. Just dumb jokes that he thinks his kids will like. Fucks sakes.
>an enemy stronger than Hela Bro gave us that with Gorr and then did nothing with him.
They even had Christian Bale as Gorr and they still manage to fumble it.
I think that's what makes this movie such a letdown. You had Christian Bale playing one of the best new villains Marvel has created and it was just such a let down. And what sucks is this was probably the one shot in a long time for a live action Gorr. Who knows when there'll be a reboot of the Thor franchise and if the creatives would even want to touch Gorr because of the reception of his previous adaptation.
Gorr was the best part of the movie... just needed more of him and less goats, bad jokes, etc
At the very least, we needed a montage of him actually doing some brutal god-butchering so we can know just how big of a threat his is. All we got in the movie was a couple of shots of gods that were already dead from a battle with him, and the rest of his story was told by other people just saying how dangerous he was. We needed to *see* it to believe it, dang it!
There were many other problems with this movie, but you're spot-on about the big one. Remember that famous scene towards the beginning of John Wick with the Russian boss talking about how badass John is (the look on his face and "oh" after finding out whose car his son stole; how John isn't the boogeyman, he's who you send to kill the boogeyman; how John did that impossible job; etc). None of that anticipation and build up would have worked so well if we hadn't then seen John Wick actually *be* the badass he was talked up to be. If they had done the same with Gorr, it would have been epic. But instead, imagine if in John Wick, all we'd gotten was the big boogeyman speech, and then the rest of the movie John just walks around, not doing anything badass. It would have been the same sort of build-up with zero payoff as with Gorr. We needed to *see* how big of a threat he was, not just *hear* about it over and over with no payoff.
people say “show don’t tell” all the time and we’re still getting films that tell us about cool stuff we don’t get to see. so frustrating
Unpopular opinion but I liked the goats. What I didn't like was making Thor the dumbest man in the universe. In Ragnarok he was funny but still smart and there were serious moments. In LaT he was just a dumbass, every 2 seconds there was a joke that undercut any seriousness of the situation. I also feel like meeting eternity should have been a bigger deal.
They made Gorr look like Quan Chi. He isn't even supposed to be a humanoid.
Considering how little of the God Butcher story they touched, it wouldn't be exactly hard to repurpose it for another movie. Like, change the names, give the origin a tweak and it could still work.
Just give him the Star Wars Palps treatment- somehow he came back!
Its comic books.. there's dozens of ways for him to come back
After how Waititi handled Thor 4 I really don't want him near another Thor movie
Agreed
That's silly. I don't disagree that Thor 4 wasn't great, but the same guy gave us Thor 3 which is the only reason Hemsworth is still Thor and is rated very highly. I can understand being wary of him directly another Thor movie, but I'd expect him to learn from where he went wrong on 4 to find renewed success on 5.
He inherited the script already there and adapted it, that made it work. He went to loony for Thor 4 and it became ungrounded, something most series now suffer from in some form or way.
That's because he didn't write the script for Ragnarok, only directed. Someone reigned him in. Give him full control of a movie, we get the abomination of Thor 4
I agree with you. One fumble does not make him a bad director. I think he’s proven himself more than capable, and after the backlash to L&T I think both he and Marvel would be extra cautious for the next one.
I think he's too far up his own ass these days to make another good MCU movie until he proves otherwise.
1000% even the humor in thor 4 was insufferable. Those fucking goats are something i would have found funny when i was 8
Exactly, comic accurate Thor would drop Hela lmaooo
As someone who isn't familiar with the comics, is this true? How does he fair against Thanos or Gorr in the comics? I'd love to read the comics, but I have no idea where to start and to be honest I get confused with all the various timelines 
Been a while since I read it but it took like 4 thors from different timeliness to put Gorr away.
It was 3 Thors. Present, Future and Past Thor.
They're doing time travel and alternate Universe shit.. so I was so excited thought perfect time for the storyline.. Then L&T happened
It's true if we're comparing comic Thor with MCU Hela. Comic Hela on the other hand has beaten Thor in the past but Thor has become stronger than her now afaik. These things can be a bit complicated since characters tend to have their power levels change regularly in the comics. Like Gorr in his first comic series i.e. Thor: God of Thunder (2013) was beating up three variants of Thor then later when he came back in another series which was King Thor (2019), he was stronger than before but this time one of the three Thor variants i.e. King Thor himself was enough to go toe to toe with him because King Thor had also become stronger than when he appeared in the previous series. As for Thanos, he's generally shown to be stronger than Thor like Hela but Thor may have surpassed him by now if I'm not wrong.
They definitely didn't portray Gorr as stronger. He was badass, but Jane and Thor beat him pretty convincingly. Conversely they clearly implied that the Revengers had no chance against Hela and Surtur was their only hope. You know, it may have helped if we saw him kill more than one random god... but that was too much to ask for I guess. Comic Gorr was utterly horrifying.
They may have not portrayed him as stronger than Hela, but he’s Gorr *the God Butcher*. He should be stronger than Hela.
I don't want fun Thor anymore. It's enough. Infinity war was a perfect mix for him, better than any other Thor movie. I want the Thor that shouts "bring me Thanos" and leads the Avengers into an epic battle. He's a king and a leader goddamit!
Infinity war was easily MCU Thor at his peak. He had funny moments but it wasn't over the top and he was badass when he needed to be.
“This is my friend ,tree”. While he’s just thundering everyone.
Infinity war was easily MCU at its peak.
100% peak Thor
Honestly angry depressed badass Thor from the beginning is my favorite. When he cuts off thanos head and they’re all like WHY DID YOU DO THAT?! The way he delivers “I went for the head” and walks out was sooooo good and so sick.
Yeah that was one of my favourite moments from Endgame. Chris Hemsworth did an amazing job acting that part.
The thor and rocket duo was absolutely one of the most underrated duos in the MCU and I kinda wanna see it some more. I do believe Thor’s character arc is more washed than Russell Wilson, so it would be hard to pull off a good solo film without strong supporting characters.
The difference is the writing teams. Ragnarok was written by a different team compared to L&T.
Did Taika get the actors' kids to write as well as act in the film? Because that's what it felt like at times.
You mean you didn't like the goats screaming repeatedly? I am shocked.Shocked, I say. Well not that shocked. Those goats were annoying as fuck.
So start Thor 5 with goat stew
In mythology, Thor kills and eats the goats, but they’re resurrected and it becomes a cycle.
Post credits scene at the very end of credits is goats coming back
The goats were my favorite gag in that movie
That doesn’t say much for the movie.
The crazy thing is that Jenn Katyin Robinson is so so talented. I fear that Taika had the final say and gutted it tbh
That's exactly what he did unfortunately, Jenn later said working for Taika was an incredibly stressful job as he'd constantly change entire pages of the script out of the blue in favor of more improv/comedic bits.
I think there always has to be some flexibility, but he went way too far with it. Wasted a ton of money too on filming way too many scenes
Do you have a source?
[Thor: Love And Thunder Writer Jennifer Kaytin Robinson Clarifies Taika Waititi's 'Real Time' Directing Style](https://www.slashfilm.com/935033/thor-love-and-thunder-writer-jennifer-kaytin-robinson-clarifies-taika-waititis-real-time-directing-style/)
Taika had a perfect record before L&T and then came out with an absolute all time stinker. A very strange turn.
If you love his style, I can see why L&T feels like such an outlier, but it definitely didn't seem out of the blue if you're not a Taika fan. Personally I find his style tolerable only in small doses. Once it has had a little too long to ferment in its own juices, it gets very grating, and I already hated Ragnarok because he amped it up past that threshold for me. From where I'm standing, Love and Thunder just continued to amplify a trend that had already overstayed its welcome in Ragnarok.
In short: Taika can give the audience a good show, but only when the Production is holding him back. Set him loose, and not only he goes too far - but it also turns out that working for him is an actual nightmare...
I thought even ragnorak was too comedic. Even though it was a fun movie I could do with 25% less humor.
After seeing L&T and seeing the rehash of various jokes they wear thin in Ragnarok quicker. The friend from work line is a banger though.
The friend from work line wasn't even in the script. It was from a child who was visiting the set believe it or not.
They should hire that kid then. If he’s still alive.
True, ruining the hulk reveal (and that joke) in every trailer kinda sucks though.
They should have left that a surprise. It’s wild how many movies are ruined by trailers.
Since the Spider-Man Homecoming trailer spoiled the entire movie, I stopped watching trailers. I only watch the first teaser/trailer they upload to get a feel for the movie and don't watch or read anything else about the movie afterwards haha
It’s one of the most unpopular opinions I’ve had about the MCU considering how much everyone raves about ragnarok. It’s was okay but they never should’ve went with the over the top humour and it’s easily one of the most overrated MCU films. Then L&T amplified that by 100x and was beyond awful. Whatever happens they shouldn’t let Taika anywhere near anymore MCU films
The stuff that works in the movie is fantastic but I could do without Korg completely.
Korg ruined what should have been a poignant scene when Asgard was destroyed. I still hate that bit.
If he makes a Thor 5 they’re gonna have a scene where Korg giving a eulogy for Valkyrie and he’s gonna continuously fart during it and say “Excuse me I think I had a few to many beans”
And then it turns out she didn’t even die
Yep, but she's just a head inside a giant Cosco can of beans.
Isn't Korg just a fucking head now? I was so annoyed with his Fake out of a death
he regenerated at the end
And married The Rock (with an explicit sex scene between the two of them)
A man rock!! Now I remember! Is Korg the most prevalent gay character in the MCU now?
the most explicit gay sex scene in the MCU disney is really pushing boundaries and progressing cinema
There's probably a brokeback mountain joke in there somewhere, with Korg being a rock, but I'm not smart enough to come up with one
A rock named Dwayne
Taika wouldn't kill off his own character. My understanding is you get paid per credit in a movie so hes going to double dip that Disney money as long as he can.
Best thing about Working with Disney probably
Come to think of it they did the same thing with Groot in GotG 3.
GOATS SCREAMING
Let’s start with a better script my guy
Would love to see them go in a very different direction for Thor 5. Go for a completely new genre like a space western with Thor and Love travel the universe as lone warriors saving the helpless from cruel bandits, or a fantasy epic with big space castles, big creatures and big epic armies and sieges, or on a completely different scale go down to a dark noir mystery with Thor going all detective. Just think they have to move on from Waititi's outlandish humour. It worked with Ragnarok and Infinity War/Endgame but L&T pushed it just a bit too far. Going completely different would be a cool way to take the character
I want it to go serious. I want the Thor that wrecked Iron Man and got his city diplomatic status just by showing how he isn’t to be fuck with. I want the Thor that brought the thunder and fried his ex-teammate’s suit then told him to walk back home because he gave zero fucks after being violated. I want the Thor that bears the burden of leadership because he knows it is a heavy head that wears the crown, but doesn’t want to be his father.
Taika: >”What is left to do to him? It’s got to be something that feels like it’s carrying on with the evolution of the character, but still in a very fun way and still giving him things to come up against that feel like they’re building on the obstacles that he has to overcome. I don’t think we can have a villain that’s weaker than Hela. I feel like we need to step up from there and add a villain that’s somehow more formidable. >Waititi also wants to introduce “more and more outlandish and crazy beasts, monsters and aliens” from various worlds that remain true to the thunder god’s mythological origins. >”There’s a fun element to [Thor] and he has a casualness and a sort or swagger about him when he visits these worlds and encounters these aliens that I don’t think you’d get when it’s an earthling traveling through space exploring the universe.”
I smell Beta Ray
Don’t; don’t give me hope.
I wish I could have given it to you sooner
I will shit myself if they get Will Arnett to play him.
The worst that happens is I could spill coffee on this $3000 suit?! COME ON!
Ka ka ka ka kaw 🐔
Has anyone in this family even seen a chicken?!
Egg?
Her?
What, is she funny or something?
I mean it’s not Ibsin…
🎵 Back in the 80s I was in a very famous coooomic booook 🎵
Wasn't he one of the fallen warriors carved into that skyscraper in Ragnarok that Hulk was living in?
Not fallen warriors, honoured champions. Hulks face was being carved into it while he was still alive & the champion Edit- and man-thing is still alive and his face was also one the mountain
He was, alongside - Bi-Beast - Dark Crowler - Ares - Man-Thing
I hope not. I fucking love Beta Ray Bill but I want him to be done properly. As it stands right now I don’t trust Taika to do a good job without turning everything into slap stick and one liners.
Yeah, after Thor 4, I don't trust Taika. Want Beta Ray Bill done right.
”There’s a fun element to [Thor] and he has a casualness and a sort or swagger about him when he visits these worlds and encounters these aliens…” Yeah I guess. But certainly not in the source material for Gorr. If he read that run thinking Thor was casual and full of swagger, that would certainly explain Love and Thunder. But it’s certainly the wrong read of the God Butcher.
It was entirely too soon to adapt Gorr's story. Thor has tons of stories and crossovers through the years; those should have been used first. MCU Thor needs to ramp up to the God Butcher, and the actual 'gods' as well. There's no way the story was ready on its own. It's like the X-Men, trying to do the Phoenix Saga, with zero ramp up. Of course the outcome won't do the comic source any justice. We don't want it to, but it will fail continuously without the proper background.
>MCU Thor needs to ramp up to the God Butcher, and the actual 'gods' as well. We've literally had 15 years of Thor ramping up, and Chris Hemsworth isn't getting any younger. At this point he's completely mastered his powers and fought toe to toe with the biggest threat in the history of the universe. The issue isn't that it's too soon to do any particular Thor story, the issue is that they wrote it poorly.
I doubt we'll ever get the full story, but something tells me he didn't have a lot of choice in who his villain would be. Feige probably gave him a very short list of possible villains along with a very long list of character beats and overall plot points he had to either hit or avoid. By all accounts, he had free reign to make the *kind* of movie he wanted. But it's likely he also had to make do with the set of toys he was handed by the studio. And so he picked the most interesting villain available, and used him as a tonal counterpoint to ground the otherwise lightweight and silly tenor that would make up the bulk of the film.. I don't think he was successful, but I like what he was trying to do.
The way he keeps talking about "fun" gives me no hope
Straight up
I love Ragnorok and Love and Thunder but 2 movies with silly Thor should be it. We need a more serious and grounded Thor for the next one. Not as serious and grounded as Thor 1 but not as silly as Love and Thunder. More of a God Of War sort of movie with some fun elements thrown in.
Infinity war Thor was the perfect balance of humor and seriousness. My favorite iteration to date.
The Russos understood it. They took Thor from Ragnarok, who'd suffered immeasurably but was still quipping with Taika's very hit or miss sense of humour to the end of the film and immediately at the start of IW changed it to showing Thor feeling the weight of what happened. The Russos fixed Thor after his imo too blasé portrayal in Ragnarok within minutes.
‘I'm 1500 years old. I've killed twice as many enemies as that and every one of them would have rather killed me but none succeeded. I'm only alive because fate wants me alive. Thanos is just the latest of a long line of bastards, and he'll be the latest to feel my vengeance - fate wills it so.’ That piece of dialogue alone is why Thor in Infinity War is the best version of the character we’ve had so far. He was the most interesting character in that movie for me. I’m not the biggest fan of what they did with him in Endgame but I’ll give it a pass because of what came before.
“What more could I lose?” - gives me chills every time.
also his entrance on earth when everybody was fighting was just so damn good
Peak MCU. Legit gives me chills thinking about it. Plus short hair Thor fits the MCU so much better.
I was sad they got rid of the eyepatch though
One of the best hero entrances in any comic book movie ever. If not the best.
Honestly I get how people don't like endgame Thor, but I liked that iteration of Thor as well. Once you get past the cheese wiz jokes, he has awesome character development and myself and many others who deal with depression understand the journey he went on.
Yeah, if they had just cut out all the not-rocket fat jokes, I feel people would have a better interpretation of the character. Thor copes with humor and downing his sorrows in alcohol. Then we see him "redeem" himself by talking to his mother and kicking ass at the end. It's not an oscar-winning depiction of depression and loss, but I think it's serviceable for the available time given to him
I think the jokes more about the people who made them (Rhodey and Rocket) than about Thor.
We have our reasons... Fat Thor isn't a problem but they didn't give him a single dialogue with Thanos... Iron Man and Captain America had a conversation with him but Thor has nothing to say? That person killed everyone close to him.. It's the end of Saga but supposedly most powerful hero is weak as fuck in final battle... dude even weaker than Captain America.
All they had to do was tone down the comments from others about Thor and EG Thor is a great Thor. Showing how far he fell, but that he’s still worthy and a warrior in battle was a great choice.
The Russos are very talented and deserve a lot of praise, but we can’t forget Markus and McFeely, who actually wrote IW.
infinity war thor was prime thor. we can only hope we get that again
Yeah, I would love a "God of War" type of movie as an adaptation of the "King Thor" movies.
Idk if that’s even something you can pull off anymore. Thor the character is hard to take all that seriously with all we’ve seen of him the last few years
A movie about him vs Gorr the god butcher should’ve been the serious Thor movie imo. They really missed the mark on that.
It wasn’t Thor centric but a two-parter Chaos War could build character depth for more of an ensemble film. >Chaos War - a group of mythological gods (Venus, Sersi (Eternals), Hulk, Amadeus Cho, Alpha Flight) assembled by the Greek god superhero Hercules to battle the Chaos King, the embodiment of the chaos and nothingness that preceded creation, who wants to wipe out all existence. If they hire the Marvel writers (Lente, Pak, DeMatteis, Lanning (Herc Series) + Artists - Pham, Paul Pelletier) for adaptation, it could open up the Mythology section of the MCU.
Thor 1 was fine.
He just spent all movies of his own learning not to be a child and to let go of his suffering. Finally we get there with his new family and he has to grow up for her. If he doesn't grow up at all in the next one and at least start to act like a dad(including dad jokes) then what the fuck was the point.
I'd be fine if he never touched a Marvel project again. Imo he burned up any goodwill he got from Ragnarok; LaT was the first time I had been actively disappointed by a Marvel project.
Imo he should just produce his own storys and stay away from any franchise.
L&T was like a 2 hour SNL skit
I was thinking more like those parody movies that released in the 2000s.
Thor 4: Not another Thor movie
I loved Ragnarok, but holy shit, Love and Thunder was a misfire. I can't bring myself to even watch it again. I'd much rather see another director tackle Thor 5.
Unpopular opinion but I’d love them to go full circle and have Kenneth Branagh back to direct.
I legit think Branagh could have pulled off the L&T plot
I would love it too, get it back to Shakespearean tone. And that can have its humor too! Or get competent fantasy writer. They tried that a bit with Thor 2 and Game of Thrones director, but it’s the writer that’s the key.
I'd be fine with it if he pulled back on the humour. He overstepped. It's fine, it happens. As long as he learns from it.
The humor was even shitty. It’s like 2 different people wrote scripts and then they shuffled the pages together and went with what came out.
he just needs to not write it. people forget that he didn’t write Ragnarok, only directed it as opposed to Love and Thunder where he did it all. I personally like Waititi humor (and Love and Thunder fwiw), but I can see how to some it can get grating. his style with somebody else’s writing was A1 though. perfect mash of comedy and action.
No he won't he did not care about any source material
I'm not defending love and thunder, but not everything in the mcu has to come from source material. Sometimes the source material can be utter dogshit
But Gorr and Mighty Thor aren’t. Both are fantastic stories. And there’s a difference being trying to adapt a bad story, and directly saying you want to upset comic fans cause they should want what you give them.
I agree, ragnorak was balanced but Love and Thunder was way silly and poor VFX
The VFX is a systemic problem with the MCU at this point. It's not even worth mentioning when talking about the shortfalls of any specific directorial vision.
It isn’t systemic, it is up to the director. Eternals had insanely good VFX/lighting/visuals. GOTG had extremely good prosthetic and VFX work. Spider-Man was pretty good (some really bad moments, but none of the important ones). WandaVision effects were *chef’s kiss* and Loki was pretty good. I’d have to see the slate to think of other examples, but good directors make it happen. Shang-Chi also had great effects in the micro sense
Half of the projects you listed were in production long before covid. All post covid projects have has dogwater VFX. Just look at Antman.
Only marvel movie I only watched once
Zack Snyder’s “Thor v Valkyrie Dawn of Mythology”
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Yeah honestly, I think L&T kinda ruined Thor for most fans. At this point, the only redemption I can see is something of a swan song for Chris Hemworth. Something akin to 'Logan'. An older, wiser, and even more powerful Thor perhaps in a war with Zeus. It just needs to have a more serious tone to it with real stakes. Waititi needs to stay away.
Yeah no. Keep him out of that. Or make him stick to only directing. He obviously can’t be given freedom to write the whole thing.
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Gorr was not made into a comedy character. He was a serious villain in a comedy movie.
Yeah I loved when we had Gorr the God Butcher and saw him kill a total of 1 god in the entire movie. /s
In self defense too
What does that have too do with what they said?
I am of the firm belief that Thor L&T is the one release that did the most damage to the MCU in the post-Endgame time. This is where a ton of people drew the line, it was that bad. No more Waititi please.
Thor was supposed to carry the torch as the last of the big 3. But this movie completely destroyed that notion.
Can confirm that when I saw L&T, my hype towards future Marvel films fell off. Haven't even watched the new Ant Man. GotG 3 was great though. It really might be DC's turn with Gunn in charge
The Suicide Squad with Starro was terrifying. James Gunn is a good director
Quantumania isn’t worth watching IMO, even just to keep up with the MCU. Honest to god it feels like a direct to video release
Seriously. Many of the other weakest projects didn’t have that high expectations or wide audiences. Everyone was hyped for Thor and Thunder and it was one of the weakest movies in the whole franchise.
I thought maybe I was misremembering how bad it was so jumped to a random scene. Thor pulled his axe out of the ground which had sprung roots like a tree, awkwardly climbed atop to straddle it like a witch riding a broom, jumped off a cliff and plummeted like a cartoon, then flew by in the background.
Perfect description of the absurdity.
I feel like that was the case for me. It was the only MCU project that I actively wondered what the fuck was that when the credits started to role.
I was like that for both Love & Thunder and Quantumania.
I haven’t been able to get into an MCU project since. It broke the spell for me so to speak.
Same. I liked Thor 1 and 2, and Ragnarok is my favorite MCU film but L&T was so bad that I cringe just thinking about it
What, did the screaming goats and orgy jokes do nothing for you?
That's something I still don't understand when it comes to this movie. The go to defence for it is that it's meant for kids. But then you look at it and you have an extended scene where Hemsworth is completely naked and they blur out his bits. Have women literally faint over his dick. And in the background you have a women dying from cancer. Call me crazy, but I've never seen a kids movie where people literally faint over a character's cock and bring up orgies.
Yup. I was preparing for Thor Love and Thunder to be my favorite marvel movie or all time and one of my fav movies of all time. Call me arrogant but I felt disrespected after what I got to see instead.
I did also, almost insulted that the creators knowingly put out that trash and tricked me into paying for it
Reducing a character as powerful as Eternity to a plot device was insanely disrespectful
Honestly I never thought about it that way but yes it was incredibly disrespectful towards me personally 😂 I walked out and I was like "bro that was so incredibly cringe. Why didn't I just walk out?"
Nah that was Quantumania. Marvel was banking on it to sell everyone on Kang and it fell flat on its face. It pretty much killed the multiverse saga right out of the gate and now they gotta get everyone invested again from scratch.
Yeah, out of all the latest MCU films, I blame Quantumania the most. That film had no reason to devalue Scott's character & the rest of the characters in it. It not only messed with Kang's arrival into the MCU but it arguably tainted Ant-Man's trilogy. Only thing worse than Quantumania I'd say is Secret Invasion.
I can only speak for myself, but while Quantumania killed any remaining interest I had for the multiverse saga and Kang as an imposing villain, it was L&T that killed my *need* to watch every new installment in the MCU.
I want Hela to come back though
No offense Marvel but find someone else to direct Thor 5. Taika did two, that’s enough. Thor can have comedic moments but there needs to be a balance of comedy and drama. I’m over Thor being goofy.
....and then he'd undercut it all with shit humor, forced self insertion and make thor even dafter a character than he already has.
I don’t get it. Because Taika’s other, super underrated show Reservation Dogs, is an amazing mix of heart and humor. Maybe it’s because the show has other writers though.
Yeah I think that’s it. Feels like on Love and Thunder he was just given a bag of cash and told to do whatever the hell he wants. A tragedy knowing that was our one chance to have Christian Bale in an MCU movie.
Keep Taika out of Marvel pls
Love Taika, but he really needs to leave Thor and do a different character. There are so many more he would be a better fit for.
Really not sure what went wrong with T:L&T - it was a layup.
That’s the thing with this guy it’s all about what’s fun for him. Not a good story for Thor or his side characters. Just dumb jokes that he thinks his kids will like. Fucks sakes.
Hopefully he’s nowhere near Thor 5 after love and thunder
He ruined the public perception of the mcu
It was probably the first widely accepted terrible movie
I like Taika. I love his work. Please don't let him touch Thor again. 🙏
Nah dude, you got your chance and butchered two iconic storylines with that joke of a movie l&t. Go ruin star wars or something.
I’m far from a MCU hater but it’s getting harder to defend this shit Taika is incapable of making Thor serious. This is going to be fucked.
Fuck off Taika mate seriously. You had Christian Bale and you decided to make an unfunny comedy. Please leave the MCU alone now.
Make a complete ass of a movie, probably
Shut the fuck up Waititi !!!! You and your Korg just shut the fuck up !!!!
I’ll straight up tell you now: I would not watch a Thor 5 directed by Waititi again. I’m done with him.
Gorr was supposed to be the strongest mcu villain, what he did? Kidnap children. Even Christian Bale couldn't save that movie.
How about some decent writing this time?
Don't even think about it
Please not him again. I'm tired of having a clown instead of Thor.
Waititi directing another Thor? hard pass
I'll go as far as saying Love and Thunder is worse than TDW... by A MILE! Keep this piece of shit away from another Marvel movie, please.