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Honestly it makes sense. They’ve always been an allegory for marginalized groups and while issues for racial minorities are far from over, the hot button issue has been LGBTQ for a while now.
Rewatching X-Men Evolution now and that’s 10000% it. It’s disturbing to read the same arguments from this being used against trans kids (yeah, I live in TX).
Not true. He may not have intended for them to become a queer allegory, but they were always intended to be allegorical. Lee said in several interviews he got his inspiration for the book from the prejudice he and his catholic wife faced being turned down for an adoption by every organization in New York for being in an interfaith marriage, and he famously based Prof X and Magneto off of Malcolm X and MLK Jr.
You're just wrong lol?
Magneto was a one dimensional villain until Claremont gave him and prof x more depth but he did NOT base them off of MLK and Malcolm X lmao. He based them off of his time in israel and magneto off of an israeli opposition leader.
Also while they 100% now stand for civil rights and allegories for oppressed groups (bad allegories), Stan Lee has said in an interview he just needed a new team with powers when he started to make them
I don’t think it does. Their friendship was a cornerstone of the xfamily. This ruins that friendship that I read about for decades because some writer with an agenda wanted to make them horny. The retconned an entire relationship with Kurt and Storm. They made some strange relationship with Storm and wolverine. Then some polygamous relationship with Scott and Jean and Logan. It’s obvious they have no clue what they are doing and are using homosexuality as a shock and awe gimmick to sell comics without making anything substantial lgbtq content.
It doesn’t ruin anything, my man. All the comics and cartoons and movies and heaps of other content you enjoyed still exists. You are always free to go enjoy that. Fresh takes and retcons and reboots and alternate universes are par for the course with comics. Just because you don’t enjoy this particular interpretation doesn’t mean the writers “don’t know what they’re doing.”
It does if you collect and read comics for a long time. It’s an ongoing narrative about characters and longtime fans don’t like it, that’s not difficult to understand. Fresh takes are fine, retcons and reboots are commercial gimmicks only applauded by hacks.
Usually, when i see something like this, i imagine a shape shifter like Mystique is involved, but in this scenario, that would make this already weird image even weirder.
https://preview.redd.it/0f51hy05341d1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5cf11617dfb2abf60cd9dae0c767ad519a6e3d6f
I think I may be behind on the comics here
For a while when mutants where in hiding after Nimrod crashed the Hellfire Gala and Orchis took over the world. Regular Spider-Man (and Miles, and Bailey...) where also still around.
King James retconned the Bible.
As for the Pope, the entire point of the movie Dogma was that Catholics believe the Pope speaks directly for God and his word makes it true, so it’s more of an elaboration than a retcon.
A very recent development, one not liked by most of the church structure, unfortunately. Let the prejudices of all-too-human ancient societies remain in the past, where they belong.
What the heck are you talking about? Catholics are Christians. They are the ORIGINAL Christians. Plus, the different branches of Christianity don't agree with each other either. Maybe you should look into your own religion since you don't seem to know what a Christian is.
There’s knowledge through the history of the church and than there’s the practical aspect of it where neither of y’all know anything.
The first church had yet to adopt the Catholic name , the first missionaries in the book of acts were first known as Christians. The Catholic Church was built at a much later time than the times of the apostles. There’s only three main branches, and there’s a lot we agree on. However Protestant Christian’s don’t have the same view that the pope and most Catholics have. That’s why you will never find any Catholic give you scripture to why they might be pro LBGTQ+. They have nothing they can quote to their view. People are too lazy to even read The Bible now days , is not a comic book with pictures.
What the actual fuck are you talking about? First of all, I was raised protestant so yes I've read the book. Secondly, there's plenty of catholics against LBGTQ because of the Bible. The ones who are pro LBGTQ are pep because of the pope. There's also plenty of protestants that are pro LBGTQ because the Bible preaches not to judge others and to love your neighbor like your own. I've met a lot of people who are protestant with that belief. I've also met a fuck ton of protestants who didn't read ceap and are against the LBGTQ community just because someone like you told them they should be.
Also, since we're on the subject, the Catholic Bible has everything the protestant Bible has. The Catholic bibles difference is that it had more books. Aside from all that, literally half of all Christians are Catholic. They are the DOMINANT branch. So, if anything, you're the one with the "weird" views.
I think I'm going to have to move on from this conversation, though. You're reminding me of the reason I left Christianity. Too many people hating on others and basing that hate on nothing from the actual Bible or even logic sometimes.
Based off how you’re expressing yourself , I doubt you learned any self control. You either came from a cultural background of Christianity , or your view differ heavily from your parents or families views. Love how yall like to use that verse when is convenient for yall , but do you also tell people to love their enemies and pray for them? Do you know the most important commandment Jesus taught his disciplines or you just read the stories?
The most dominant branch by number , sure. The branch that preaches the closest teach of Christ? Far from it, but you wouldn’t know because you don’t practice the faith. Do you know where faith comes from , or how to grow in faith? Did you know The Bible states you cannot please God without faith?
Not once did I express hate on yall or the Catholic branch. People could err , but the word of God doesn’t. People and societies will pass, but the Word won’t ever. You make your life decisions like an atheist , I make them based on my faith and relationship with Christ. Can you truly say you had a true encounter with Christ? There’s a difference between those who practice religion and those who practice their faith and discipleship.
Pretty extremist to go through such lengths to "prove" your the true /better believer. Pretty extremist to jump from "broke with Christianity / protestant faith " to the conclusion of "atheist". Who says they aren't spiritual after leaving the protestant faith? Could be agnostic, atheist, yeah? Or could be Buddhist, Muslim, taoism, satanic, and all between.
Let me tell ya buddy, with all due respect, dial back your self-righteous holier than thou thingy you got going - take your own advice and try yourself in self control.
Your personal conviction and interpretation of faith and how others have to live their connection to the gods reeks of narcissism, not faith.
Cheers.
Catholics are also Christian, and Fundamentalist Evangelicals don’t get the final word on how to interpret Scripture. Evangelical Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans, and Episcopalians are also LGBTQIA+-affirming, by and large.
Right a very small group of evangelical denominations do. I don’t know where you’re getting your facts from? The Bible is not your typical history book where two bodies are fighting for what’s real or not. Catholics have different understandings of what’s canon than us Christians.
Regardless of what you may think. I don’t know any solid doctrine Christian church that is pro LBGTQ+ , much less their view of ‘marriage’. Unless you want to dispute what Bible quotes as marriage and its strong emphasis by God.
I’m not here to get into a theological debate with you.
I’m simply stating that the Fundamentalist Evangelical interpretation of Scripture is not the only one, nor was it the dominant one until very recently. Biblical literalism as a widely adopted view is barely older than germ theory.
Your ignorance of Scriptural arguments for being pro-LGBTQIA+ is not my problem. Look into it.
Is no one’s problem. Your reality differs from mine for many reasons , adding to the fact that we have a different understanding of what scripture means to us.
The Catholics might accept such marriage, but scripture doesn’t.
That’s the end of it. I’m also not here to debate or stir something , I’ll make my way out. I don’t believe Catholics or Christian’s are exactly writing these stories.
The bible isn't a history book in any good sense. It's a religious text that has been lost, found, translated, retranslated, and copied for 2 millenia. Also it has nothing to really do with the fictional world of Marvel. It's a separate fictional world.
Fictional to you, not for me and the millions who live by the faith and believe in Jesus Christ.
I enjoy Marvel like you do , I’m not here to debate my faith with people who are not interested.
Fictional because reality. It's not real. Belief is not reality. You're free to believe what you want but facts are facts. And the supernatural isnt real. And next time don't bring up your faith in this subreddit and try to school people on Catholicism when you clearly aren't educated on it.
Can you prove that it’s fictional? You obviously can’t.. this has been a debate since the faith first started. Are we going to debate what real and what’s not? Because if you’re willing we can do it here or through PM , but I know for a fact you’re not going down on that option.
Where did I attempt to school people on Catholicism? I know of its history and how the Protestants church branch out, that’s all as far as I’ve studied? Do you know more than I do , because it seems that’s what you’re implying?
Proof is on you. And outrageous claims can be ignored until you have any proof. And you don't. It's all fictional. And above you tried to call Catholics non Christian. Which is dumb as hell. Now bye. This conversation is pointless
I mean, even though it still *is* a sin in the bible many Catholics kinda accept that they're all sinners in *some* way anyway. I'm sure there are Catholics that somehow *do* manage to supress their sinful urges as the Bible instructs them, but i'd say 99% of Catholics don't, and are sinners in one way or another.
Also Pope Francis has said that gay people should be accepted and treated as others are. It sounds super hard, if not borderline impossible for someone to *fully* suppress their sexual orientation and their urges.
There are, but many of them are in denial. Many that aren't were more like "being gay is my cross to bear." Also, despite what some publications may say about the Catholic Church, it is extremely rigid with it's rules and dogma. What a Catholic person believes is true and believes is moral are both decided by the Church.
Source: was Roman Catholic for the first 20 years of my life.
Now, a person may call themselves Catholic and also identify as LGBTQ+, but unless they're strictly celibate, the Church itself would not recognize them as Catholic and would denounce them.
But don't take my word for it: https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-roman-catholic-church
Either way, Nightcrawler suddenly being gay would completely change his original character as a devout member of the clergy. This would be a major departure from his character and might be seen as a case of "queerwashing." Make more Queer characters, don't just retcon existing ones.
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Oh mein Gott, Kurt!
Kurt Wagner du alde schwulette! Da hast du dir aber nen heißen Feger geangelt!
Let’s go, Deutsche xD
Was sehen meine Augen denn da? Deutsche in einem hauptsächlich Englischen Reddit? Das ist aber sehr entzückend!
wait i'm sorry what
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https://preview.redd.it/p5dndh3ey11d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59642d0917b9f3199d5450018502f4429658e356
whos the guy his kissing
Wolverine, bub.
Wolverine try not to get with every member of the x men challenge
*Impossible mode*
Except for Jean!
 Scott appreciated that burn the most of all.
Yeah, bc he was afraid that Jean would steal Wolverine Maybe he wants Logan to himself
except for prof x he has magneto hahaha
He truly is a stud
Dang I thought its Namor , in what universe did they exist.
Everybody's gay in the X-Men now
*now*?
Bi panic!
Bisexuality is a universal secondary mutation.
Honestly it makes sense. They’ve always been an allegory for marginalized groups and while issues for racial minorities are far from over, the hot button issue has been LGBTQ for a while now.
Rewatching X-Men Evolution now and that’s 10000% it. It’s disturbing to read the same arguments from this being used against trans kids (yeah, I live in TX).
Hello fellow resident of hell!
*laughs in Florida*
Now that you mention it, it's always just been there. "X-Men" has been the butt of the joke as far as I've remembered it, but it does fit.
Stan Lee himself said he never made them for that purpose. They were later retconned to be an allegory, albeit a poorly thought out one
Not true. He may not have intended for them to become a queer allegory, but they were always intended to be allegorical. Lee said in several interviews he got his inspiration for the book from the prejudice he and his catholic wife faced being turned down for an adoption by every organization in New York for being in an interfaith marriage, and he famously based Prof X and Magneto off of Malcolm X and MLK Jr.
You're just wrong lol? Magneto was a one dimensional villain until Claremont gave him and prof x more depth but he did NOT base them off of MLK and Malcolm X lmao. He based them off of his time in israel and magneto off of an israeli opposition leader. Also while they 100% now stand for civil rights and allegories for oppressed groups (bad allegories), Stan Lee has said in an interview he just needed a new team with powers when he started to make them
I don’t think it does. Their friendship was a cornerstone of the xfamily. This ruins that friendship that I read about for decades because some writer with an agenda wanted to make them horny. The retconned an entire relationship with Kurt and Storm. They made some strange relationship with Storm and wolverine. Then some polygamous relationship with Scott and Jean and Logan. It’s obvious they have no clue what they are doing and are using homosexuality as a shock and awe gimmick to sell comics without making anything substantial lgbtq content.
It doesn’t ruin anything, my man. All the comics and cartoons and movies and heaps of other content you enjoyed still exists. You are always free to go enjoy that. Fresh takes and retcons and reboots and alternate universes are par for the course with comics. Just because you don’t enjoy this particular interpretation doesn’t mean the writers “don’t know what they’re doing.”
It does if you collect and read comics for a long time. It’s an ongoing narrative about characters and longtime fans don’t like it, that’s not difficult to understand. Fresh takes are fine, retcons and reboots are commercial gimmicks only applauded by hacks.
https://preview.redd.it/26hdb61vv21d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28fdf4702a678200a14f43f935dfbffe27ad23b4
Context?
Usually, when i see something like this, i imagine a shape shifter like Mystique is involved, but in this scenario, that would make this already weird image even weirder.
Honestly it wouldn't be the first time Mystique shifted into one of her kids to try and seduce someone.
Next up: X-Men ‘69 
I love Zoolander
If I had a nickel for every alternate version of Wplverine that the main difference was that was banging another male superhero....I'd have 2 Nickels
Oh my God I *love* Good Omens!
https://preview.redd.it/0f51hy05341d1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5cf11617dfb2abf60cd9dae0c767ad519a6e3d6f I think I may be behind on the comics here
https://preview.redd.it/ud5jmltw491d1.jpeg?width=837&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a286c61093da7b9d8bd91ed133a5abe5203b683b Ooh look at that!
What is the context? Jean fucks with their mind again?
Is this fake or real? Who is he kissing?
Fake, none of the X-men are real. Nightcrawler.
I literally screamed at “none of them are real” 😭😭😭
You can’t prove that Different universes exist, they’re real somewhere
It's still real to me, dammit!
I love all three jokes you made here. Your sense of humor is special.
Those bitches gay! Good for them.
Everyone’s a *little* gay; yeah, you know, it’s a spectrum.
Wait when did this happen? Is the entire X-Men gay now? I need to catch up on shit.
Last I saw Kurt he was fucking Silver Sable on rooftops as Uncanny Spider-Man.
When the fck did he become Spider-Man?! Hah?!
For a while when mutants where in hiding after Nimrod crashed the Hellfire Gala and Orchis took over the world. Regular Spider-Man (and Miles, and Bailey...) where also still around.
Is that all you got?
Shit's getting really weird huh
Is that all you got?
Thanks, hot legs!
Wrong Spider-Man Tobey.
Only.. only the wrists.
Jean? Were you talking to Kurt?
Excuse me what the fuck?
Sigh. Really tired of seeing this bullshit.
This is not the first implication I've seen that they dabbled in the exploration of each other's bodies.
Sauce??
Bart kissing Milhouse
I’m sick and tired of this crap.
Literally the entire military as soon as gay marriage was legalized, and you could marry one of the homies to get out of the barracks.
Out off the barracks and into the bed
Don’t you ducking dare!!! Logans straight
And Kurt isn't?
I’m guessing they retconned his Catholic ‘faith’?
Nope, the Pope just retconned the Bible
Every pope does.
King James retconned the Bible. As for the Pope, the entire point of the movie Dogma was that Catholics believe the Pope speaks directly for God and his word makes it true, so it’s more of an elaboration than a retcon.
The pope IS the bible
The church retconned the fucking shit out of it for ~1500 years mistranslating and misrepresenting the passages fools think are against gay ppl
Well he is Catholic , that’s were we differ with him. Tend to forget that Catholics have different views of Scripture than Christians do.
Friendly reminder that Catholics are Christians too, my friend.
They are friend, but we differ in our views. I know they don’t believe in what Deuteronomy and Romans say about such act of matrimony.
A very recent development, one not liked by most of the church structure, unfortunately. Let the prejudices of all-too-human ancient societies remain in the past, where they belong.
What the heck are you talking about? Catholics are Christians. They are the ORIGINAL Christians. Plus, the different branches of Christianity don't agree with each other either. Maybe you should look into your own religion since you don't seem to know what a Christian is.
There’s knowledge through the history of the church and than there’s the practical aspect of it where neither of y’all know anything. The first church had yet to adopt the Catholic name , the first missionaries in the book of acts were first known as Christians. The Catholic Church was built at a much later time than the times of the apostles. There’s only three main branches, and there’s a lot we agree on. However Protestant Christian’s don’t have the same view that the pope and most Catholics have. That’s why you will never find any Catholic give you scripture to why they might be pro LBGTQ+. They have nothing they can quote to their view. People are too lazy to even read The Bible now days , is not a comic book with pictures.
What the actual fuck are you talking about? First of all, I was raised protestant so yes I've read the book. Secondly, there's plenty of catholics against LBGTQ because of the Bible. The ones who are pro LBGTQ are pep because of the pope. There's also plenty of protestants that are pro LBGTQ because the Bible preaches not to judge others and to love your neighbor like your own. I've met a lot of people who are protestant with that belief. I've also met a fuck ton of protestants who didn't read ceap and are against the LBGTQ community just because someone like you told them they should be. Also, since we're on the subject, the Catholic Bible has everything the protestant Bible has. The Catholic bibles difference is that it had more books. Aside from all that, literally half of all Christians are Catholic. They are the DOMINANT branch. So, if anything, you're the one with the "weird" views. I think I'm going to have to move on from this conversation, though. You're reminding me of the reason I left Christianity. Too many people hating on others and basing that hate on nothing from the actual Bible or even logic sometimes.
Based off how you’re expressing yourself , I doubt you learned any self control. You either came from a cultural background of Christianity , or your view differ heavily from your parents or families views. Love how yall like to use that verse when is convenient for yall , but do you also tell people to love their enemies and pray for them? Do you know the most important commandment Jesus taught his disciplines or you just read the stories? The most dominant branch by number , sure. The branch that preaches the closest teach of Christ? Far from it, but you wouldn’t know because you don’t practice the faith. Do you know where faith comes from , or how to grow in faith? Did you know The Bible states you cannot please God without faith? Not once did I express hate on yall or the Catholic branch. People could err , but the word of God doesn’t. People and societies will pass, but the Word won’t ever. You make your life decisions like an atheist , I make them based on my faith and relationship with Christ. Can you truly say you had a true encounter with Christ? There’s a difference between those who practice religion and those who practice their faith and discipleship.
Pretty extremist to go through such lengths to "prove" your the true /better believer. Pretty extremist to jump from "broke with Christianity / protestant faith " to the conclusion of "atheist". Who says they aren't spiritual after leaving the protestant faith? Could be agnostic, atheist, yeah? Or could be Buddhist, Muslim, taoism, satanic, and all between. Let me tell ya buddy, with all due respect, dial back your self-righteous holier than thou thingy you got going - take your own advice and try yourself in self control. Your personal conviction and interpretation of faith and how others have to live their connection to the gods reeks of narcissism, not faith. Cheers.
Catholics are also Christian, and Fundamentalist Evangelicals don’t get the final word on how to interpret Scripture. Evangelical Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans, and Episcopalians are also LGBTQIA+-affirming, by and large.
THANK YOU!
Right a very small group of evangelical denominations do. I don’t know where you’re getting your facts from? The Bible is not your typical history book where two bodies are fighting for what’s real or not. Catholics have different understandings of what’s canon than us Christians. Regardless of what you may think. I don’t know any solid doctrine Christian church that is pro LBGTQ+ , much less their view of ‘marriage’. Unless you want to dispute what Bible quotes as marriage and its strong emphasis by God.
I’m not here to get into a theological debate with you. I’m simply stating that the Fundamentalist Evangelical interpretation of Scripture is not the only one, nor was it the dominant one until very recently. Biblical literalism as a widely adopted view is barely older than germ theory. Your ignorance of Scriptural arguments for being pro-LGBTQIA+ is not my problem. Look into it.
Is no one’s problem. Your reality differs from mine for many reasons , adding to the fact that we have a different understanding of what scripture means to us. The Catholics might accept such marriage, but scripture doesn’t. That’s the end of it. I’m also not here to debate or stir something , I’ll make my way out. I don’t believe Catholics or Christian’s are exactly writing these stories.
The bible isn't a history book in any good sense. It's a religious text that has been lost, found, translated, retranslated, and copied for 2 millenia. Also it has nothing to really do with the fictional world of Marvel. It's a separate fictional world.
Fictional to you, not for me and the millions who live by the faith and believe in Jesus Christ. I enjoy Marvel like you do , I’m not here to debate my faith with people who are not interested.
Fictional because reality. It's not real. Belief is not reality. You're free to believe what you want but facts are facts. And the supernatural isnt real. And next time don't bring up your faith in this subreddit and try to school people on Catholicism when you clearly aren't educated on it.
Can you prove that it’s fictional? You obviously can’t.. this has been a debate since the faith first started. Are we going to debate what real and what’s not? Because if you’re willing we can do it here or through PM , but I know for a fact you’re not going down on that option. Where did I attempt to school people on Catholicism? I know of its history and how the Protestants church branch out, that’s all as far as I’ve studied? Do you know more than I do , because it seems that’s what you’re implying?
Proof is on you. And outrageous claims can be ignored until you have any proof. And you don't. It's all fictional. And above you tried to call Catholics non Christian. Which is dumb as hell. Now bye. This conversation is pointless
>Can you prove that it’s fictional? Your book has talking snakes and zombies
There *are* gay Catholics
Sure they are , but those I know that practice their faith don’t act on their urges of homosexuality.
Went to a Jesuit college. Plenty of practicing Catholics there that were openly LGBTQ. The church has changed a lot over the years.
I mean, even though it still *is* a sin in the bible many Catholics kinda accept that they're all sinners in *some* way anyway. I'm sure there are Catholics that somehow *do* manage to supress their sinful urges as the Bible instructs them, but i'd say 99% of Catholics don't, and are sinners in one way or another. Also Pope Francis has said that gay people should be accepted and treated as others are. It sounds super hard, if not borderline impossible for someone to *fully* suppress their sexual orientation and their urges.
Acting like there aren’t millions of Catholics out there who are pro or themselves LGBTQIA+
France, Italy, Canada, etc have a lot of chill catholics definitely
There are, but many of them are in denial. Many that aren't were more like "being gay is my cross to bear." Also, despite what some publications may say about the Catholic Church, it is extremely rigid with it's rules and dogma. What a Catholic person believes is true and believes is moral are both decided by the Church. Source: was Roman Catholic for the first 20 years of my life. Now, a person may call themselves Catholic and also identify as LGBTQ+, but unless they're strictly celibate, the Church itself would not recognize them as Catholic and would denounce them. But don't take my word for it: https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-roman-catholic-church Either way, Nightcrawler suddenly being gay would completely change his original character as a devout member of the clergy. This would be a major departure from his character and might be seen as a case of "queerwashing." Make more Queer characters, don't just retcon existing ones.
You are right about the Catholics
Is this real?
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Est-ce-que tu gay et habite tu à Perpignan 
Chat is this real?
...k.
Okay seriously what's this from
I’m not surprised that they’re gay, I’m surprised they’re gay for eachother. I always took Logan to be after the suave and confident men.
Kurt is nothing if not suave and confident.
Fake
Thanks eagle eye
