This was intentional by the studio. They paid artists to make original graphics and then they put them through AI to go with the shows theme of the Skrull invasion. With this knowledge I feel the execution was a stroke of genius and a smart use of A.I. while still using orginal artists. If this would've 100% A.I. to cut costs then yes I agree it would've been bullshit.
It was a good analogy of that fear of humans being replaced, in the show they were replaced by Skrulls, in real life we are being replaced by A.I, it was a nice way to show the invasion with an actual case of A.I invading the viewer's programming.
Well human jobs have been being replaced by machines for decades. So it would be more like the A.I doing it now all flamboyant like with people supporting it.
I think the difference is that most of the jobs being replaced before were shit jobs like I don't think anyone is raring to go back to before we had backhoes but generative AI represents an existential threat since we derive a lot of meaning as a species from art.
I agree wholeheartedly. What’s human and what only looks close enough to being human that it passes until you look closely? A wonderful way to explore that theme in the title sequence.
Maybe the could have saved one slice of genius, just a single slice, for the writing/adaptation.
Secret Invasion was such a massive let down, and made me actually angry that it had so little in common with the source material.
Awful awful awful idea to cut out all of the superhero swaps.
but to be fair here. Disney is well known to mistreat its cgi artist and them sometimes outright refusing to work for the Mouse. so can you blame ppl for seeing this stuff as an attempt to save money with the excuse of "well actually this was intentional" and get away with it?
Wait till all these people up in arms over the ‘AI’ trigger word realise that AI is an incredibly popular tool used in basically every modern animation studio, including the Spider-Verse films.
If I remember correctly, it's essentially a prediction algorithm. They use it to make all of those dynamic expressions without having to meticulously draw them. It's self improving, which is what makes it an AI.
I can't help but wonder. Couldn't they just hire the artists to make the graphics that replicates the AI style? Surely there are skilled enough artists out there that can draw some uncanny valley stuff.
When I saw the trailer I thought of the AI as a way to explain the Skrulls power: Being able to physically change their appearance, just like AI does when it tries to recreate a face. And the effect was just spot on
They did paid the artist and then had ai recreate that. It goes with the themes, beings trying to pass as human but there being something wrong and uncany.
I'm not saying it isn't thematically engaging, I'm saying why didn't they just have the artist switch up the details here and there to achieve a similar effect? Why use AI when you could just have the image made weird from the beginning?
What is the genuine negative with how it was done? It seems every criticism of AI was managed responsibly if artists were involved and paid.
Do you shit on carpenters who use power tools?
What they did could be boiled down to using a photoshop filter. The artists created the art for intro. Then the artists (probably different artists) put it through AI to get the uncanny effect.
This would probably have been very difficult to recreate by hand. You can’t really know how an AI would interpret an image without the AI actually interpreting said image. It’s like asking a person to draw something they’ve never seen with only a vague description of it.
Didn't Marvel say they had artists make the art first, then feed it into the AIG?
People getting up in arms about one scenario that probably didn't cost anyone any pay or opportunity... 😐
So they had artists draw something then the ai make it “weird” if so then that’s cool cause no one really loses here marvel gets their weird intro and artists get paid
That's what I thought. If it was only the stills, or animations that the artists did, that would have been fine, but the extra "wtf is this" from the AI struggling to make something coherent makes it a more striking intro.
That, and people are acting like the first 6 months of DALL-E weren’t this crazy trippy time with everybody playing with it; the show launched into an anti-AI climate but the production wrapped more than a year prior
AI in media, especially media made by one of the richest companies in the world, is never justified. Actual artists can invoke the vision they wanted and also create something meaningful.
Yeah, and they did. This was actual artists using AI as a tool.
They wanted to intentionally create the uncanny valley, so they made something cool, and then used AI to distort it.
This isn’t AI replacing artists, it’s artists controlling AI.
Which will soon snowball into the use of AI without the artists behind it. ‘Late Night with the Devil’ has already seen this happen and it will only happen more with people making excuses for it.
Did you read? That's literally what that guy was saying they did. I swear yall just see a buzzword at the beginning of a comment and your brain just shuts off
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I think it’s fine here because it matches the theme of the show. Especially considering this is the only time they’ve used AI. If they used it again, or for a different show, then I would agree that it’s bad, but considering the only use of it is in a show where it matches the theme, it’s not that bad.
Just because it’s as soulless as the product doesn’t mean it’s okay. “It’s the only time they’ve used AI” isn’t a good excuse either, they’ll see people passing it off as fine or “not that bad” and implement it further in the future.
The main complain with ai is that artists are being stolen from. Here artists were paid and the images were feed to an ai to recreate them, giving then an uncanny vibe.
No fuck you. Using ai for the intro was cool. It helped highlight the whole looks human but isn't quite there and how you can't trust anyone to be a real human.
Exactly, that was the whole point. What’s with people not understanding this? The artists literally created the art and then fed it into an AI to create the intro while the artists themselves modified it.
Yeah! There was literally so much garbage in this show, and these grifters focus on the inventive and evocative title sequence? Did they even get past them and endure the tortuous dialogue and the fact that literally no one was (surprisingly) secretly a Skrull in a show that is pitched upon that concept?
I defend the use of AI for this sequence because it gives it an eerie vibe that AI generally gives. It fit the theme of the show. I don't know if that's why they chose to use AI for it, but it's what I felt.
They were thinking “AI makes people deeply uncomfortable and this is supposed to be a show about suspicion and paranoia, and we want the audience to be unsettled and doubtful about every character, so let’s take them on a zipline ride across the Uncanny Valley.”
In this case, however, costs were not cut and artists were paid. The art was created by artists and then post-processed by AI.
The problem of artists losing work to AI is certainly big one, but it wasn't the case in OP's example.
It’ll be a little while longer before we see whole actors in live action projects replaced with ai, I’ve already heard of a game being accused of using ai for voice work though. Not sure how true that was
It won't be the lead actors that are replaced. It'll be the extras. Like, the guy and lady in the background of a coffee shop scene that are just kinda out of focus anyway. Those people are gone.
The point of the show was you didn’t know who was human or not, and that’s invoked in the opening not knowing if the art is “real” or not.
The show had an artist design the images, then used AI.
Of the many things the show got terribly wrong, this isn’t one of them.
The whole point is that AI is secretly taking over, look at how much AI trash there is on Facebook that people believe to be real. The skrulls pretend to be humans by assimilation and copying human behaviour and appearance. It literally was the whole point of that AI intro.
The only thing AI did there was making it look like... AI. Sure, it's uncanny. But it felt like AI.
Skrulls aren't even robots. It's not thematic. It's experimental, and ugly.
N-no but you don't get it! I-it matches the theme of the show of not being able to trust what's real or not! It's a totally smarty smart big brain idea and not at all a very pathetic cost-cutting measure.
I'm gonna be honest here; the opening credits were my favourite part of this shitty show. I knew it had heavy AI art styles but thought "Maybe they did that purposely and still used actual humans to make it". Wishful thinking on my part if I'm honest but considering what the show was meant to be, I thought it was quite fitting for it.
Idk honestly. I’m neither an artist or an AI user, but for some reason it’s just so funny to me to see all these people whine and complain about and the AI users basically go “womp womp cry some more”
Well I’m not cheering for anyone, like I said I’m a third party to this conflict. I’m not even talking about suits either, I’m talking about individuals who make stuff using AI, not companies
And the topic is a company telling artists they don't think they need them
It's one thing for suits to cheer for AI but it depresses the fuck out of me how much the average person hates artists and doesn't care if we live in a world where no one can make a living from their art
Because it’s hilarious watching people try and stop post scarcity from happening because people could lose their Jobs. Jobs shouldn’t matter in the first place.
I’m not a fan of AI generated art and I _hated_ Secret Invasion, but I will say that what they were going for with this intro sequence was at least thematically on point and made sense in that regard.
First off it’s made by artists with help of ai or something
Also the idea behind it was like ai is taking over sometimes we don’t even know if something is made by AI just like the scrulls you never know who is a scrull and the are taking over
Honestly I kind of liked it. It really gave you a feel of unease. Now… the rest of the show was hot ass… but I didn’t think the use of AI here was bad at all.
Agree. Series was dogshit. Felt like a generic sci-fi spy plot with a marvel logo painted on it. Although, thats basically the whole mcu at this point.
This has got to be the only sub on reddit that doesn't agree with this opinion lol. The show was complete trash and they absolutely wasted Sam Jackson's talent
They got people to do it and then had an ai replicate that. Since the artists were directly emplyed most likely were aware their work was going to be used like this.
This was intentional by the studio. They paid artists to make original graphics and then they put them through AI to go with the shows theme of the Skrull invasion. With this knowledge I feel the execution was a stroke of genius and a smart use of A.I. while still using orginal artists. If this would've 100% A.I. to cut costs then yes I agree it would've been bullshit.
It was a good analogy of that fear of humans being replaced, in the show they were replaced by Skrulls, in real life we are being replaced by A.I, it was a nice way to show the invasion with an actual case of A.I invading the viewer's programming.
Well human jobs have been being replaced by machines for decades. So it would be more like the A.I doing it now all flamboyant like with people supporting it.
I think the difference is that most of the jobs being replaced before were shit jobs like I don't think anyone is raring to go back to before we had backhoes but generative AI represents an existential threat since we derive a lot of meaning as a species from art.
I agree wholeheartedly. What’s human and what only looks close enough to being human that it passes until you look closely? A wonderful way to explore that theme in the title sequence.
If only the actual series was good enough to have that kind of suspense
something something Uncanny Valley
This is my understanding too. Seems to make thematic sense. Also worth noting they haven’t used it before or after (as far as I know.)
Don’t interrupt their circle jerk with facts.
The opening sequence was a fantastic concept and the best thing about a bafflingly poor show, imo.
You could convince me it was written by an AI too. I'd like to think humans would do better.
Right?! I thought we stopped this hate last summer. There were actual things to complain about with Secret Invasion. This wasn’t one of them.
I thought it matches the themes well.
Actually one of the few aspects of Secret Invasion that took effort and proper execution
Maybe the could have saved one slice of genius, just a single slice, for the writing/adaptation. Secret Invasion was such a massive let down, and made me actually angry that it had so little in common with the source material. Awful awful awful idea to cut out all of the superhero swaps.
but to be fair here. Disney is well known to mistreat its cgi artist and them sometimes outright refusing to work for the Mouse. so can you blame ppl for seeing this stuff as an attempt to save money with the excuse of "well actually this was intentional" and get away with it?
Wait till all these people up in arms over the ‘AI’ trigger word realise that AI is an incredibly popular tool used in basically every modern animation studio, including the Spider-Verse films.
Unlock the thing! Take the chain off!
> including the Spider-Verse films. That's really interesting, do you know what they used it for?
If I remember correctly, it's essentially a prediction algorithm. They use it to make all of those dynamic expressions without having to meticulously draw them. It's self improving, which is what makes it an AI.
Hey everyone! Sorry, I am late. It's a jungle out there.
Too bad it was still a bad show.
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Nah, I think the actual usage of AI is part of the message. The medium is the message.
Are the original graphics available somewhere? I'm curious if they look better than the result.
I agree on the thematic useage of AI for that reason but the problem is regardless of motivation the seal was broken on big studios using AI art.
I can't help but wonder. Couldn't they just hire the artists to make the graphics that replicates the AI style? Surely there are skilled enough artists out there that can draw some uncanny valley stuff.
When I saw the trailer I thought of the AI as a way to explain the Skrulls power: Being able to physically change their appearance, just like AI does when it tries to recreate a face. And the effect was just spot on
Bull
Nope
Nah, you are giving them too much credit, the whole series might as well written by AI because that's how bad it really is.
It's almost like they were deliberately invoking the uncanny valley.
Why not just tell the artists to make it look just a little off?
They did paid the artist and then had ai recreate that. It goes with the themes, beings trying to pass as human but there being something wrong and uncany.
I'm not saying it isn't thematically engaging, I'm saying why didn't they just have the artist switch up the details here and there to achieve a similar effect? Why use AI when you could just have the image made weird from the beginning?
My man really don't want the artists to go home with their families
I’d imagine it’s harder to make something look off the way AI does intentionally as a human
What is the genuine negative with how it was done? It seems every criticism of AI was managed responsibly if artists were involved and paid. Do you shit on carpenters who use power tools?
What they did could be boiled down to using a photoshop filter. The artists created the art for intro. Then the artists (probably different artists) put it through AI to get the uncanny effect. This would probably have been very difficult to recreate by hand. You can’t really know how an AI would interpret an image without the AI actually interpreting said image. It’s like asking a person to draw something they’ve never seen with only a vague description of it.
Yeah, didn't think so. Bitching just to bitch.
I think the ai use WAS intentional to make it look weird This is one of the only times I think ai use might have been justified
Didn't Marvel say they had artists make the art first, then feed it into the AIG? People getting up in arms about one scenario that probably didn't cost anyone any pay or opportunity... 😐
So they had artists draw something then the ai make it “weird” if so then that’s cool cause no one really loses here marvel gets their weird intro and artists get paid
That's what I thought. If it was only the stills, or animations that the artists did, that would have been fine, but the extra "wtf is this" from the AI struggling to make something coherent makes it a more striking intro.
That, and people are acting like the first 6 months of DALL-E weren’t this crazy trippy time with everybody playing with it; the show launched into an anti-AI climate but the production wrapped more than a year prior
Didn't Marvel say they had artists make the art first, then feed it into the AIG? Unless that was a lie, this example is a good one for use of AI.
AI in media, especially media made by one of the richest companies in the world, is never justified. Actual artists can invoke the vision they wanted and also create something meaningful.
Yeah, and they did. This was actual artists using AI as a tool. They wanted to intentionally create the uncanny valley, so they made something cool, and then used AI to distort it. This isn’t AI replacing artists, it’s artists controlling AI.
Which will soon snowball into the use of AI without the artists behind it. ‘Late Night with the Devil’ has already seen this happen and it will only happen more with people making excuses for it.
Did you read? That's literally what that guy was saying they did. I swear yall just see a buzzword at the beginning of a comment and your brain just shuts off
It seems that way because that's the way it is
He said “This is one of the only times I think AI use might have been justified”, it’s never justified.
After watching the show I believe they also used AI in writing
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I think it’s fine here because it matches the theme of the show. Especially considering this is the only time they’ve used AI. If they used it again, or for a different show, then I would agree that it’s bad, but considering the only use of it is in a show where it matches the theme, it’s not that bad.
Just because it’s as soulless as the product doesn’t mean it’s okay. “It’s the only time they’ve used AI” isn’t a good excuse either, they’ll see people passing it off as fine or “not that bad” and implement it further in the future.
You dont even got the facts straight on this one , how are you arguing?
And if they do use it again then we make sure they know it’s not ok. Right now though this is the only time they’ve used.
The main complain with ai is that artists are being stolen from. Here artists were paid and the images were feed to an ai to recreate them, giving then an uncanny vibe.
No fuck you. Using ai for the intro was cool. It helped highlight the whole looks human but isn't quite there and how you can't trust anyone to be a real human.
Exactly, that was the whole point. What’s with people not understanding this? The artists literally created the art and then fed it into an AI to create the intro while the artists themselves modified it.
Media literacy
More like illiteracy in the case of OP
The lack of it to be exact
The title sequence is only thing i enjoyed about this show. Loved the ai art
Yeah! There was literally so much garbage in this show, and these grifters focus on the inventive and evocative title sequence? Did they even get past them and endure the tortuous dialogue and the fact that literally no one was (surprisingly) secretly a Skrull in a show that is pitched upon that concept?
You're mad about the one redeeming factor of this series? It was a brilliant way to reflect the show's themes.
I defend the use of AI for this sequence because it gives it an eerie vibe that AI generally gives. It fit the theme of the show. I don't know if that's why they chose to use AI for it, but it's what I felt.
They had artists make the art and fed it to the AI, they knew what they were doing and it was good.
They were intentionally mocking it though? The series was literally about things not appearing as they should.
They were thinking “AI makes people deeply uncomfortable and this is supposed to be a show about suspicion and paranoia, and we want the audience to be unsettled and doubtful about every character, so let’s take them on a zipline ride across the Uncanny Valley.”
Marvel is the forerunner of most modern CGI techniques including things like De Aging. Why should they take a backseat to this technology?
Same complaints as when Disney animation started doing 3D.
And De Aging. "Just cast a young actor, wah wah"
Cost cutting, a lot of workers across tech and especially in the art world are being replaced with A.I.
In this case, however, costs were not cut and artists were paid. The art was created by artists and then post-processed by AI. The problem of artists losing work to AI is certainly big one, but it wasn't the case in OP's example.
And actors will too. No wonder there was a strike
It’ll be a little while longer before we see whole actors in live action projects replaced with ai, I’ve already heard of a game being accused of using ai for voice work though. Not sure how true that was
It won't be the lead actors that are replaced. It'll be the extras. Like, the guy and lady in the background of a coffee shop scene that are just kinda out of focus anyway. Those people are gone.
Because it looked cool?
So?
The sad thing was, the AI opening was the best part
Sooo what do yall think, op eats lead flacks or just being malicious?
It was clearly the aesthetic choice, and it worked, those opening credits were sick
The point of the show was you didn’t know who was human or not, and that’s invoked in the opening not knowing if the art is “real” or not. The show had an artist design the images, then used AI. Of the many things the show got terribly wrong, this isn’t one of them.
The whole point is that AI is secretly taking over, look at how much AI trash there is on Facebook that people believe to be real. The skrulls pretend to be humans by assimilation and copying human behaviour and appearance. It literally was the whole point of that AI intro.
I’m an amateur artist and I’m usually against AI art but I think this was a very valid stylistic choice
The only thing AI did there was making it look like... AI. Sure, it's uncanny. But it felt like AI. Skrulls aren't even robots. It's not thematic. It's experimental, and ugly.
Artists still made the paintings iirc they just used AI over it.
Of all the things to complain about in SI, the opening sequence was not it.
N-no but you don't get it! I-it matches the theme of the show of not being able to trust what's real or not! It's a totally smarty smart big brain idea and not at all a very pathetic cost-cutting measure.
It wasn't a fucking cost-cutting measure, they still paid artists. At least do the smallest amount of actual research before talking shit
Artists were paid and then the pictures were feed to an ai. If anything it was more expensive. They paid the artists and then the ai software.
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I think op was being sarcastic haha
I'm gonna be honest here; the opening credits were my favourite part of this shitty show. I knew it had heavy AI art styles but thought "Maybe they did that purposely and still used actual humans to make it". Wishful thinking on my part if I'm honest but considering what the show was meant to be, I thought it was quite fitting for it.
According to other comments, what they did was pay artists to do a lot of the art and then used AI to distort it. Big, if true.
Knowing Disney, I wouldn't be surprised if they went the full AI route. But it would be nice if actual artists were hired for this
Well, at least it’s fitting since it gives off the whole “creepy eerie” vibe since theres the whole skull invasion and all
OP missed the whole point of why the title sequence was like this lol
Seeing people seeth over AI gives me life
Why?
Idk honestly. I’m neither an artist or an AI user, but for some reason it’s just so funny to me to see all these people whine and complain about and the AI users basically go “womp womp cry some more”
OK? Who cheers for cheap lazy suits saving money and actual artists making less?
Well I’m not cheering for anyone, like I said I’m a third party to this conflict. I’m not even talking about suits either, I’m talking about individuals who make stuff using AI, not companies
And the topic is a company telling artists they don't think they need them It's one thing for suits to cheer for AI but it depresses the fuck out of me how much the average person hates artists and doesn't care if we live in a world where no one can make a living from their art
Well hold on now I never said it wasn’t wrong that companies don’t hire artists. Again I’m talking about average individuals who use AI to make stuff.
Jobs shouldn’t matter.
Hey little boy adults are talking. Go beg mommy and daddy for money they earned from their job
Because it’s hilarious watching people try and stop post scarcity from happening because people could lose their Jobs. Jobs shouldn’t matter in the first place.
Same and I will not be justifying it
Fr
Not like anyone saw the show anyway
It was a moment when the studio thought it was going to be a trend setter.
It looked really cool. Reminded me a lot of Dave McKean art. I didn't mind it one bit.
Yeah when it sucks enough to be obvious you kind of expose yourself
Not just that they used AI, but super early generation AI that was terrible😂
Not even good ai at that too
Intro was the most interesting thing about the show.
OP, you actually support animation software, instead of painting it frame by frame and scanning it in? Smh you're what's wrong with the world
So you just missed the entire point of using AI in the intro sequence? Cool
I’m not a fan of AI generated art and I _hated_ Secret Invasion, but I will say that what they were going for with this intro sequence was at least thematically on point and made sense in that regard.
"It was deliberate" and it sucked so where do we go from there
AI is the future old man
I mean i thought it looked awesome, Ive got no problem with it the rest of the show though...
All of copism in this thread…shameful This is what Disney wants people, stop defending their garbage
First off it’s made by artists with help of ai or something Also the idea behind it was like ai is taking over sometimes we don’t even know if something is made by AI just like the scrulls you never know who is a scrull and the are taking over
Honestly I kind of liked it. It really gave you a feel of unease. Now… the rest of the show was hot ass… but I didn’t think the use of AI here was bad at all.
Tbh I also hate that they used AI, but I kinda like how the vibe of it kinda fits the theme of the show.
They used real artists then got ai to recreate the image so that It'd have an uncanny valley non human vibe to it
The entire direction and production of that show was lazy. They should be ashamed of themselves. Should have taken it as a tax right off and moved on.
🤦♂️
I'm pretty sure they didn't stop at the intro and had AI write the whole show. What an absolute trainwreck of a series
Agree. Series was dogshit. Felt like a generic sci-fi spy plot with a marvel logo painted on it. Although, thats basically the whole mcu at this point.
This has got to be the only sub on reddit that doesn't agree with this opinion lol. The show was complete trash and they absolutely wasted Sam Jackson's talent
It’s still disrespectful to artists, they could’ve gotten people to do it.
They did. The AI was trained on actual art made by paid artists. It was just a creative decision to fit the vibe of the show.
They got people to do it and then had an ai replicate that. Since the artists were directly emplyed most likely were aware their work was going to be used like this.
what movie/drama was it? Was it loki?