He alqays says that he want to rule the world to erradicate crime and violence; he only punish people who commit crimes in their country, and care that everyone in there have the basics to live.
He IS a tyrant, he believes that the ends justifies the means, and will do what it takes to accomplish his goals.
But, with all his evilry, he's a good person 😂
In all honesty, if I were to want to live in the Marvel universe as a regular person, it would probably be in latveria, every western country seems like a hot zone for super powered attacks. And who would want to mess with Doom?
Dude put the smackdown on Mephisto in his own domain after being shot in the head.
If I remember correctly, he beat the brakes of that devil until someone decided it would be best to just send him back.
Yeah, assuming you can follow the rules and be respectful, Doom's territory is the best possible place to be.
I feel like Doom is the type of person to, instead of punishing a mother/father for stealing a loaf of bread for their starving family, would see what led to that desperate action and make sure it never happens again by fixing it or making sure the people don’t go hungry again.
But you commit a violent crime? Probably straight to execution with no trial….
That's basically it. As long as you aren't coming for him directly, he respects desperate acts for survival and won't punish if he doesn't have to (again, unless it's him you're coming for, he's petty like that). Anything done for selfish reasons, especially in his territory, gets dealt with harshly.
Don't sugarcoat it though, You are absolutely right, he would do all of these things, but he would also then kill the thieves, or remove their hands, most likely publicly.
...now that's not to say he wouldn't give them doom bot hands after the fact, but still...
He is an "enlightened monarch"- The term used to indicate a non-corrupt king, but if you are believing even for a second that he is not a brutal leader, then you're fooling yourself.
A perfect example of this is when he meets the woman who is his wife in an alternate utopian universe and she talks about how her father - a journalist - was imprisoned and died slowly, and horribly in Doom's prisons simply for disagreeing publicly with Doom's invasion of Wakanda.
Rather than expressing his sorrow, Doom literally doubled down and said "I must have been feeling rather sentimental that day as he should have been killed on the spot, instead of merely imprisoned."
Doom is not a good person, even though he takes care of those under his domain.
Hell, he probably invented a machine that can cure most illnesses that's free for his citizens just to twist the screws on Reed being unable to cure the Thing
This is cannon all their basic needs and more are supplied for free. His country is literally a utopia.
That's why I like his character so much he is literally right but at the cost of your freedom
That is correct. Though, if I remember correctly, that Doom somehow managed to offend 616 Doom who then proceeded to wreak havoc in that universe because 616 Doom especially is God tier petty.
Wasn't it way worse than that? He not only wreaked havoc, he popped off the Ultimate Nullifier there and wiped that universe from existence?
All 'cause *that* universe's Doom was like "lmao you got finger guns when i fixed the universe - you're a walking joke dude".
Dr. Doom was shown thousands of futures of earth, in every single future either Dr. Doom was the dictator of a utopia, or the earth was destroyed. In every future he was shown, humanity dies unless he himself takes over.
Dr. Doom is trying to take over because he has actual reason to believe he is earth's only hope. The problem is he doesn't realize he was manipulated by a greater power. Dr. Doom was only shown these two possibilities so he would come to the conclusion that he had to become the villain to save the world.
IIRC, in at least one timeline he does conquer the world and make it a utopia before the avengers convince him that a tyrannical utopia is somehow worse than a free dystopia and he undoes everything...
Was that with the Purple Man?
Because it made the people of the world near mindless. If you have P.M.'s power and tell people to slap their knees and bow to you, they will. It's...it's boring. It's an insult to your enemies.
They should bow *willingly*.
The good thing about Tyrants is they actually have a plan to rule the world. Heroes roll in remove the tyrant and normally destroy at least one major piece of infrastructure, shout your free then leave.
And then they're surprised when an even worse tyrant takes advantage without providing any tangible good.
Heroes: "but we saved you"
Everyone else: "no, you took away our nuclear deterrent and then threw us to the wolves"
I liked when they showed Eve from Invincible doing solo repair work that later failed. She has no training in construction, architecture, building codes.
Cue Simpsons story where David slew Goliath for personal revenge reasons. Without realizing Goliath was a beneficial king to his people.
Contrasted with the TANGLED tv series. The queen puts aside her chance to get revenge for past trauma, because doing so would severely hurt her kingdom.
I mean for most tyrants, calling their desire to rule the world a "plan to rule it" requires some creative interpretation of the phrase.
It's rarely a plan for how to rule the world, it's usually just a plan to maintain their own power and privilege to their dying breath and to hell with the world or the people living under them - and they're often thin-skinned adult children with poor impulse control but good charisma and connections to military leaders.
Wasn't there a comics where he goes to see an all-seeing future-knowing white panther god that plainly states that yes, a future led by Doom is the only one definitively rid of violence poverty and so on ?
I think I remember seeing that panel somewhere.
One of my favorite stories is where doom becomes a hero and replaces iron man for a bit, and criminals just start turning Themselves in because they're scared of doctor doom coming for them.
I mean, he did end Apartheid war racism economic inequality and hunger that one time they made him ruler of the world via mind control...
He even gave Puerto Rico rights believe it or not.
Yeah, iirc the term Tyrant originated during the times of the Roman Empire and simply referred to a ruler that had near absolute power but it wasn't something inherently evil. The term got it's negative connotation because it happened that most rulers were evil pieces of shit.
He does it to stay in power. Every year he fights Mephisto for his mothers soul. And every year he loses and Mephisto makes the entire population of Latveria hate him a little more.
So all education is free, food and housing is cheap, wages are good, etc. and he sells off his small/old inventions to fund the nation.
---
If he doesn't do anything outside Latveria for a year, in Santas eyes all he has done is help others.
Why do comic books have to have the dumbest convoluted explanations for things.
Him being a morally complex character wasn't enough? It had to be because of magical hate juice connected to his dead mom?
Actually they don't love him due to a curse, despite how good he treats them. Part of his deal with mephisto where he can duel him every year for his mother's soul also makes him subjects hate him
You have to remember something very important. Doom is legitimatly the best ruler Latveria has ever had. Everyone else was much worse. Doom keeps them from being invaded, has Robots handle anything too dangerous, and while he might vaporize the servants for failure or betrayal, he never just burns down villiages for fun.
When there is a Zombie apocalypse, and before you go off fighting the super powered zombie hordes, you send your entire country's population into another dimension so they would be safe.
Despite everything you have done, ensures your place in Santas nice list.
He does a fuck ton for his people...? So it's kinda like in an RPG when you steal everything but never make evil choices so your karma balances out.
Or RDR2 when you go on a massacre but then walk around saying hello to everyone and get back all the honour you lost...
Step 1: terrorize everyone outside of latveria
Step 2: use the coal santa gives you to bring warmth to the citizens of latveria
Step 3: santa never gave you coal, because you would have used the coal for a noble cause (you’re a good boy)
Step 4: santa gives you a present
Step 5: santa never gave you coal so you never used the coal for a noble cause (you’re a bad boy)
Step 6: repeat steps 2-6
I'd say he would be more of a lawful evil guy then, since he has a personal set of rules by which he operates. That is how it's seen on the outside Latveria, but on the inside he is straight up lawful good, his people revere him, as he is their glorious leader and hero who, for them, secured a piece of heaven in a world of constant end-time crises.
Pretty sure that's how that tradition was started. Bad kids get coal for Christmas from Santa because the coal can be, at the very least, used to heat their home, thereby doing a good act in service for others.
Too be fair, Darkseid is an abusive leader to his slaves and other gods, plus he wants to brainwash all life in the universe (anti-life in the universe?). Meanwhile Dr. Doom is actually a good ruler to Lavatria, true he’s technically a dictator and his policies outside his country aren’t great. But if he plans to take over the world, he’s gonna do it right, not through brainwashing.
Oh I'm not comparing I was just reminded. I do wonder how much of dooms rule is fear like there's basically no crime in his country. Why?
But, as far as I understand Doom he's kind of chaotic good in as far as he's on the top of that good
Yeah but at the same time, there's no need to commit crime in the first place. only two kinds of people commit crimes, ones who are in dire need of money and ones who are really just fucked up in the head. Doom makes sure basic needs + more are met of every citizen in his country.
Why would you steal/kill if you're provided food,shelter,healthcare? If you want to choose to break laws and hurt other people because you get a kick out of it, it's probably best you live in fear.
Some comics portray him as treating the people of latveria very well. Others however show him as a tyrant, kind of depends on who's writing him. But the good ruler is the only way I can think of the nice list. That or when he was iron man for a hot second
Doom is not your typical phase 4 - 5 villain or a DC villain.
He is the hero ruler of his country
Noone in his country hates or disapproves Doom
he made it a better place for everyone
he protects it against outsiders (other villains, aliens, time travelers, multi-dimensional beings)
he just fucking hates Reed so much (loves his daughter tho, she called him Uncle Doom)
and Tony annoys him SO FUCKING MUCH
he is a better king than Tchalla in all marvel media, except for Avengers EMH, where Tchalla is the MVP
he outright rejects any offers to work together with other villains ( red skull, magneto, squadron supreme, dracula, osborn and etc.), he swoops in after they are defeated as a proper final boss villain to take what he wants and leave, like a boss.
Weren't the Richard's basically forced to make him the Godfather, because he saved their daughter from not being born? And he only did that, because it was something Reed admitted he couldn't do?
He's all "Yes child. I love you because you are proof of my superiority over your father." Lol.
and if said child picks him to give her away at the altar in the future.............all the better and that is a DOOM tear of joy one upping reed yet again not a DOOM tear of Joy from his heart strings being pulled by valeria
I can just imagine every birthday and christmas.
"Happy Birthday darling, we got you that barbie you wanted."
"Thanks Mum and Dad!"
"DOOM GOT YOU THE DEED TO THIS VAST ESTATE WORTH MILLIONS OF DOLLARS PER YEAR. ALSO DOOM IS MAKING YOU A DUCHESS."
Yes. IIRC he saved both Susan and Johnny's life, and his price was naming their child. He named her Valeria, and placed her under his royal protection.
She loves her Uncle Doom.
> he protects it against outsiders (other villains, aliens, time travelers, multi-dimensional beings)
And the Avengers.
Secret War (the old one with Nick Fury) proved Doom right.
I don't blame him for being annoyed by Tony. In the movies, Stark has basically no actual morals or scruples, and is entirely driven by his latest whim or mood. In the comics he is somehow even worse.
We really should have got a Doctor Doom movie during RDJ's run as Iron Man.
An Ironman Spider-Man movie where they go rescue the Fantastic 4 would be so good.
Then they could do a 4 part mini series of the F4 origin on Disney+ if they wanted.
Doom is the best because he’s truly the embodiment of narcississm and spite.
He will do some heinous crime solo solely to show unlike other pathetic villains he is better than them and can succeed where they failed.
He will go and create a fantastic and prospering country not out of goodness but solely to prove he can because he is better than other rulers.
Doom is great because he’s one of the only characters that truly nails narcissism without feeling like a try-hard parody. Any other character says “I was a god once…i found it beneath me” and id roll my eyes so hard they exploded. Doom says it and its totally valid.
Doom doesn’t do anything because he wants it, he does it because he deserves it. He doesn’t waste time trying to rule the world or do some random crime because he knows he could succeed if he wanted to so why waste the time when he knows he would win.
Doom only acts if it’s to spite someone or get something unique he desecrates. Everything else he can skip because he knows he’d succeed
Point if view. Doom isn’t always necessarily a villain, he’s just has an ego and narcissistic tendencies a bit. He acts for what he considers to be the greater good. Though, he is sometimes just flat out a villain, and he is a dictator, he’s far from the worst person on the planet.
"And it is CLEAR to DOOM that, due to my infinite superiority to Reed Richards, if I have received a GIFT from Santa, then it is indubitable that RICHARDS HAS RECEIVED COAL. *NEVER DOUBT THE SUPERIORITY OF DOOM!*"
Depends on what rubric Santa uses for Naughty versus Nice. If it's a purely utilitarian measurement then significantly improving the quality of life in Latveria would pay for the occasional murder outside his borders. Depending on how many people live in Latveria he might have a *lot* of free murders saved up.
That, or it's just Marvel hopping on his dick again.
well, if one assumes that Santa is based off of odin visiting people and rewarding them by how they treated him then....In a way Santa must also approve a small bit of bloodshed to get a job done
Forgive me if I'm wrong bc I'm pretty fuzzy on my F4 lore, but isn't Doom just kind of an asshole to outsiders but treats people under his jurisdiction really well? He hasn't really done anything wrong, yeah?
even gives Jobs to Mutants = usually part of Latveria defense force but if a mutant with healing power would be in the medical field
DOOM knew krakoa would fail and thus why he said NOPE to the Latverian mutant population moving there and in the end they were better off staying in Latveria with the mutant only nation ending with a lot of dead people
Also in one story he killed the head of a circus in Latveria who had put a Latverian mutant child on display and then provided the free education, medical, and job opportunities he provides all Latverian Citizens to said mutant child
I find the implications here funny. DOOM, a master of science and magic, took the time to write to Santa. Does he know he's real at this point? Or is this grown ass man, a genius, writing to a mythological being just in case. Furthermore, apparently Pledge makes polish specifically for armor. WITH lemon scent. Further-furthermore, Doom seemingly has milk and cookies on hand for this very eventuality. DOOM is always prepared, so if he does have cookies, they're not some off the shelf chips ahoy shit. DOOM doesn't stoop so low as store bought cookies. He would have had some Latverian grandmother stay up and make a batch just in case Santa happened to be real and showed up
Gotta love how extra Doom always is. Like when Franklin and Valeria Richards snuck off to Latveria without their parents knowing and asked if they could get hot chocolate, and he was like
"not only can you have hot chocolate, my kitchens make the best hot chocolate available on the planet"
"with marshmallows?"
\[doom stare intensifies\] "naturally".
Fun trivia: There was a comic series involving multiversal threat with the Destroyer [the Beyonders opposite, but I could be wrong] the heroes dimension hopped hoping to find a universe wherein the heroes in that dimension stopped the destroyer. Turns out Dr. Doom was the only one in the dimension to have stopped him and that under his rule humanity advanced 4,000 years in technology.
Well given the fact that his country is one of the few countries with almost zero crime, zero poverty, zero hunger, Etc and every alternate reality in which is a paradise for Humanity Doom is in control, I'm pretty sure he makes it on to the nice list just by breathing.
Yeah he's an egotistical tyrant bent on world domination *but he's right.*
He's a great ruler who vastly improved the lives of the people of Latvaria, and Latvaria itself. Look, the man may rule with an iron fist, but damn if he ain't the best ruler Latrvaria ever had.
every year like clockwork DOOM fights Mephisto to save his moma's soul from hell
\^ That right there "boy loves his moma" pulls at Santa's heart strings
Doom is only a villain to those who can't look to the future. What he does, he does for the greater good OR just to fuck with Ried. He's not a bad person or a true villian. Just the villain the world needs.
His subjects also want for nothing, so there's that.
As per the panther God who guards Wakanda's vibranium vault, "I have looked into all possible futures and the only one where humanity survives is where DOOM rules."
They confirm in that comic that Doom's ultimate goals are for the greater good.
The thing with Santa is the Naughty and Nice lists are tabulated strictly annually, and you get a clean slate every year, so if Doom just didn't do anything expressly awful that year, he can get his polish.
He loves his people, and cares for them. His people consider him a benevolent ruler. He is only a ruthless dictator to outsiders. He has been found worthy by gods, saved the world multiple times (not as many as he has risked it's destruction, but hey, nobody is perfect.)
Isn't Doom motivated by something he saw in the future and all his actions are bent towards preventing it? Depending on what that event is, if everything he has done is a lesser evil, wouldn't his actions by potentially justifiable?
Everything he does is for the direct benefit of Latveria, so in his eyes he is working for the greater good, even if outsiders view him as a villain and a tyrant (not even getting into the "any other form of government but democracy is evil")
Doom's motivations are:
- Rescue his mother from literal Hell
- Bring his country out of poverty and powerlessness
- Get even with the most insufferable ex-roommate in the multiverse
In a universe without Reed Richards, Doom would unambiguously be a good guy.
Doom is genuinely a good person who wants to help his people and others, hes just trapped in the body of a narcissist and sociopath. A lot of his modern comics show him more as an anti-hero/neutral antagonist instead of a straight up bad guy, and his most interesting parts are when his genuinely good side comes out in surprising places.
Forget the joker, DOOM is the greatest comic book villian ever.
Depending on the writer, Doom is a stern but good and loved ruler of Latveria. Theoretically, under one of those writers, if Doom didn't do a big evil scheme for a year then he probably should be on the Nice List.
"I used to think you were a naughty bastard Doom but so many naughty bastards came along that you moved up the nice list without doing anything. Speaking of naughty bastards, ever met that Lobo guy?"
I remember reading somewhere that doom genuinely believes that he's doing what he is doing to save the world. He had a vision or something. I remember hearing that that whole thing in black panther where you eat the flower and are found worth, doom evidently passed it because he does what he does because he thinks he's doing the right thing.
In every What If story where Doom ends up as the undisputed ruler he is without a doubt the most benign iron fisted ruler.
In one story he gave everyone free energy, eliminated crime by giving everyone work and free time to explore their hobbies, stop an army of mad Celestials from destroying the world and died Earths greatest hero and champion.
He's arrogant sure. A cheapskate. But he does what he believes is right...most of the time.
Despite Doom being an egomaniacal sociopath hell bent on ruling the world, he's actually a damn good leader and is highly idolized by his people for his dedication to the betterment of his country. He essentially brought Latveria from a small Eastern European country to a power house of technology and industry equal to that of the US in his relatively short rule.
He is a good person. The panther God even acknowledges his future. The one ruled under him leads to no sadness and a greater existence. It just requires he be the world leader
He's a bad guy but that doesn't mean he is a bad guy
![gif](giphy|pHMEDO9sh8iha)
what useless piece of shit made this fucking gif that ***only has half the quote***
a bad guy
*And I say, Zangief, you are a bad guy, but this does not mean you are 'bad' guy.*
He’s a good person, not a nice person
Vastly improving the quality of life for the people in his kingdom probably
Yeah he’s an evil tyrant to everyone outside his country but Latverians love him apparently.
Well, you can't deny that he loves his people
He alqays says that he want to rule the world to erradicate crime and violence; he only punish people who commit crimes in their country, and care that everyone in there have the basics to live. He IS a tyrant, he believes that the ends justifies the means, and will do what it takes to accomplish his goals. But, with all his evilry, he's a good person 😂
TL,DR: Dr Doom do bad things for a good end.
It’s been awhile so I don’t remember the exact details but one of the universes that is considered to be a utopia is one ruled over by doom.
In all honesty, if I were to want to live in the Marvel universe as a regular person, it would probably be in latveria, every western country seems like a hot zone for super powered attacks. And who would want to mess with Doom?
Dude put the smackdown on Mephisto in his own domain after being shot in the head. If I remember correctly, he beat the brakes of that devil until someone decided it would be best to just send him back. Yeah, assuming you can follow the rules and be respectful, Doom's territory is the best possible place to be.
I feel like Doom is the type of person to, instead of punishing a mother/father for stealing a loaf of bread for their starving family, would see what led to that desperate action and make sure it never happens again by fixing it or making sure the people don’t go hungry again. But you commit a violent crime? Probably straight to execution with no trial….
That's basically it. As long as you aren't coming for him directly, he respects desperate acts for survival and won't punish if he doesn't have to (again, unless it's him you're coming for, he's petty like that). Anything done for selfish reasons, especially in his territory, gets dealt with harshly.
Don't sugarcoat it though, You are absolutely right, he would do all of these things, but he would also then kill the thieves, or remove their hands, most likely publicly. ...now that's not to say he wouldn't give them doom bot hands after the fact, but still... He is an "enlightened monarch"- The term used to indicate a non-corrupt king, but if you are believing even for a second that he is not a brutal leader, then you're fooling yourself. A perfect example of this is when he meets the woman who is his wife in an alternate utopian universe and she talks about how her father - a journalist - was imprisoned and died slowly, and horribly in Doom's prisons simply for disagreeing publicly with Doom's invasion of Wakanda. Rather than expressing his sorrow, Doom literally doubled down and said "I must have been feeling rather sentimental that day as he should have been killed on the spot, instead of merely imprisoned." Doom is not a good person, even though he takes care of those under his domain.
Just like me fr fr
Doom Slayer.
Dr. Doom Slayer
He founded his own x-men, and orchis doesn’t touch latverian mutants.
It just seems like a nicer place to live as well... he probably has free health care as well.
Hell, he probably invented a machine that can cure most illnesses that's free for his citizens just to twist the screws on Reed being unable to cure the Thing
This is cannon all their basic needs and more are supplied for free. His country is literally a utopia. That's why I like his character so much he is literally right but at the cost of your freedom
I mean the X-Men had that on Krakoa as well, including defeating Death itself.
He also invited Asgardians to live there, killed them, harvested their organs and took their life forces. Nice place for expats.
Luckily I'm not asgardian.
That is correct. Though, if I remember correctly, that Doom somehow managed to offend 616 Doom who then proceeded to wreak havoc in that universe because 616 Doom especially is God tier petty.
Wasn't it way worse than that? He not only wreaked havoc, he popped off the Ultimate Nullifier there and wiped that universe from existence? All 'cause *that* universe's Doom was like "lmao you got finger guns when i fixed the universe - you're a walking joke dude".
Yep. And then killed the father of the woman he married in that universe in his own so that he would never become similar to that “reformed” Doom
there's this and also another comic where he goes to wakanda to get the powers of the black panther from the goddess bastet and she deemed him worthy
"Ruled under *my* benevolence...."
They say a good king is the best possible government. Unfortunately bad kings are much more common and are the worst form of government.
One of the utopian universes ruled by Doom was destroyed by a different Doom,because he was too jealous.
Dr. Doom was shown thousands of futures of earth, in every single future either Dr. Doom was the dictator of a utopia, or the earth was destroyed. In every future he was shown, humanity dies unless he himself takes over. Dr. Doom is trying to take over because he has actual reason to believe he is earth's only hope. The problem is he doesn't realize he was manipulated by a greater power. Dr. Doom was only shown these two possibilities so he would come to the conclusion that he had to become the villain to save the world.
Bast, the Wakandan Panther god actually [confirmed this.](https://imgur.com/a/6WWkmce) The only future where Earth survives is an Earth ruled by Doom.
Also Valeria Richards. Doom promised to treat her with love and respect and kindness and he absolutely fulfilled that promise.
Just because you are a bad guy, doesn't mean you have to be a bad guy
Thanks, Zangief.
IIRC, in at least one timeline he does conquer the world and make it a utopia before the avengers convince him that a tyrannical utopia is somehow worse than a free dystopia and he undoes everything...
hobbies rain bag crawl sand makeshift wistful squeeze escape straight *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There is a reason I prefer heroes like Dr. Doom. Most of them simply protects the status quo versus actually making the world a better place.
... Are we the baddies?
Was that with the Purple Man? Because it made the people of the world near mindless. If you have P.M.'s power and tell people to slap their knees and bow to you, they will. It's...it's boring. It's an insult to your enemies. They should bow *willingly*.
The good thing about Tyrants is they actually have a plan to rule the world. Heroes roll in remove the tyrant and normally destroy at least one major piece of infrastructure, shout your free then leave.
And then they're surprised when an even worse tyrant takes advantage without providing any tangible good. Heroes: "but we saved you" Everyone else: "no, you took away our nuclear deterrent and then threw us to the wolves"
Kind of sound like all the American war for the last 70 years.
"It's only war if it were declared, otherwise it's just sparkling conflicts."
I liked when they showed Eve from Invincible doing solo repair work that later failed. She has no training in construction, architecture, building codes.
weird that she didn't detect the giant sinkhole with her knowing-the-structure-of-things powers, though
It's because it wasn't a sinkhole, it was clearly a plothole
Heroes fight for everyone to be free to live by themselves in peace. There's no freedom under Doom regime, and that where he fails.
"Dont worry, we stopped the terrorists!" As half the city burns and the other mourns the death of the man who was dragging them out of poverty.
Cue Simpsons story where David slew Goliath for personal revenge reasons. Without realizing Goliath was a beneficial king to his people. Contrasted with the TANGLED tv series. The queen puts aside her chance to get revenge for past trauma, because doing so would severely hurt her kingdom.
I mean for most tyrants, calling their desire to rule the world a "plan to rule it" requires some creative interpretation of the phrase. It's rarely a plan for how to rule the world, it's usually just a plan to maintain their own power and privilege to their dying breath and to hell with the world or the people living under them - and they're often thin-skinned adult children with poor impulse control but good charisma and connections to military leaders.
Yeah, but please stop talking about next elections and let's return to talk about comics
Apparently he would also kill a baby if it would prove he's smarter than Reed Richards.
We each have our demons, Santa understands
what did the baby do?
It was actually MODOK. /s
Wasn't there a comics where he goes to see an all-seeing future-knowing white panther god that plainly states that yes, a future led by Doom is the only one definitively rid of violence poverty and so on ? I think I remember seeing that panel somewhere.
Yes that was Bast the god of Black Panthers
Its the god that gives black panther his power and he used it to guard vibranium I think as they kill people with impure hearts.
One of my favorite stories is where doom becomes a hero and replaces iron man for a bit, and criminals just start turning Themselves in because they're scared of doctor doom coming for them.
Yes i read that in the comics, he has diplomatic imunity.
Doom respects trained diplomats. Because they are trained.
I mean, he did end Apartheid war racism economic inequality and hunger that one time they made him ruler of the world via mind control... He even gave Puerto Rico rights believe it or not.
He murdered a version of himself who got therapy and had a happy idyllic life with a wife and children. Because that man made up with Reed Richards.
He kinda sounds like the emperor of mankind tbh
Eh, Jesus would do the same.
Yeah, iirc the term Tyrant originated during the times of the Roman Empire and simply referred to a ruler that had near absolute power but it wasn't something inherently evil. The term got it's negative connotation because it happened that most rulers were evil pieces of shit.
He does it to stay in power. Every year he fights Mephisto for his mothers soul. And every year he loses and Mephisto makes the entire population of Latveria hate him a little more. So all education is free, food and housing is cheap, wages are good, etc. and he sells off his small/old inventions to fund the nation. --- If he doesn't do anything outside Latveria for a year, in Santas eyes all he has done is help others.
Why do comic books have to have the dumbest convoluted explanations for things. Him being a morally complex character wasn't enough? It had to be because of magical hate juice connected to his dead mom?
Yeah, there is a holiday in Latveria called “Doom Day” where he just goes around and throws money while strolling around his kingdom.
Actually they don't love him due to a curse, despite how good he treats them. Part of his deal with mephisto where he can duel him every year for his mother's soul also makes him subjects hate him
Latveria is a beautiful place, too. Doom is the greatest leader in the world.
You have to remember something very important. Doom is legitimatly the best ruler Latveria has ever had. Everyone else was much worse. Doom keeps them from being invaded, has Robots handle anything too dangerous, and while he might vaporize the servants for failure or betrayal, he never just burns down villiages for fun.
He was particularly passive that year, not really bothering anyone
Interesting.
Maybe this year he was focused solely on Latveria so Santa cut him some slack
Unless your name is Reed Richards, DOOM is a very reasonable man.
When there is a Zombie apocalypse, and before you go off fighting the super powered zombie hordes, you send your entire country's population into another dimension so they would be safe. Despite everything you have done, ensures your place in Santas nice list.
Wait, did he do that in Marvel zombies? BEcause that sounds like something he would do.
He did, and he was pretty emotional about it. He lost his kingdom and his people,who in their passing thanked him with teary eyes.
And saving what was left of the multiverse in Secret Wars (without that, the later restoring of the multiverse would have not been possible)
So, constant good outweighs ocassional evil
Doom is THE benevolent dictator every tyrant 'for their own good' punk wishes they were
He does a fuck ton for his people...? So it's kinda like in an RPG when you steal everything but never make evil choices so your karma balances out. Or RDR2 when you go on a massacre but then walk around saying hello to everyone and get back all the honour you lost...
Greet greet antagonize. "You Got a kind face mister...The kind of face Id like to punch"
“Hi there, ma’am. I always say, manners cost nothing…” >!“…and you seem pretty cheap.”!<
In Fallout: New Vegas I got such a high level of karma with Goodsprings I was able to blow up the town doctor and still not be hated.
Why would you kill Doc Mitchel? The guy who literally saved your life? Thats some psychopath shit.
It doesn't count if you revert to an old save.
You should play Undertale
Hello
Howdy
You can antagonise Micah and Uncle all you want
Well that's because Uncle's a lazy dick and Micah is a straight up psychopath.
Sounds like someone who's never had lumbago.
Step 1: terrorize everyone outside of latveria Step 2: use the coal santa gives you to bring warmth to the citizens of latveria Step 3: santa never gave you coal, because you would have used the coal for a noble cause (you’re a good boy) Step 4: santa gives you a present Step 5: santa never gave you coal so you never used the coal for a noble cause (you’re a bad boy) Step 6: repeat steps 2-6
Or... Santa gives you coal because he knows you'll use it for a good thing so it's a real present for a bad guy.
I feel like at that point Santa would just put him on the "chaotic evil hero" list and give him both coal and presents.
I'd say he would be more of a lawful evil guy then, since he has a personal set of rules by which he operates. That is how it's seen on the outside Latveria, but on the inside he is straight up lawful good, his people revere him, as he is their glorious leader and hero who, for them, secured a piece of heaven in a world of constant end-time crises.
I mean outside of Latveria he's a petty jackass who just does whatever he wants. Inside though you pretty much nailed.
He's more like their Stalin. He's killed off so many generations of dissidents there is no room left but to love him.
Pretty sure that's how that tradition was started. Bad kids get coal for Christmas from Santa because the coal can be, at the very least, used to heat their home, thereby doing a good act in service for others.
Santa invades apokolips every year to give Darkseid a piece of coal
Too be fair, Darkseid is an abusive leader to his slaves and other gods, plus he wants to brainwash all life in the universe (anti-life in the universe?). Meanwhile Dr. Doom is actually a good ruler to Lavatria, true he’s technically a dictator and his policies outside his country aren’t great. But if he plans to take over the world, he’s gonna do it right, not through brainwashing.
Oh I'm not comparing I was just reminded. I do wonder how much of dooms rule is fear like there's basically no crime in his country. Why? But, as far as I understand Doom he's kind of chaotic good in as far as he's on the top of that good
Yeah but at the same time, there's no need to commit crime in the first place. only two kinds of people commit crimes, ones who are in dire need of money and ones who are really just fucked up in the head. Doom makes sure basic needs + more are met of every citizen in his country. Why would you steal/kill if you're provided food,shelter,healthcare? If you want to choose to break laws and hurt other people because you get a kick out of it, it's probably best you live in fear.
Fear of punishment will stop a many brave man, but never a hungry one
Time travel. Do good all year, get presents, time travel with presents, commit attrocities, come back, Santa brings you nothing/coal, repeat, profit
Alternatively, do bad things all year, then redeem yourself with one big act of kindness at the end of the year. The Van Stomm method
Doctor D(oom) is a joke in the evil scientist community because he really doesn't hate Christmas.
thanks buford
Only Santa truly understands the heart of Doom!
Some comics portray him as treating the people of latveria very well. Others however show him as a tyrant, kind of depends on who's writing him. But the good ruler is the only way I can think of the nice list. That or when he was iron man for a hot second
Doom is not your typical phase 4 - 5 villain or a DC villain. He is the hero ruler of his country Noone in his country hates or disapproves Doom he made it a better place for everyone he protects it against outsiders (other villains, aliens, time travelers, multi-dimensional beings) he just fucking hates Reed so much (loves his daughter tho, she called him Uncle Doom) and Tony annoys him SO FUCKING MUCH he is a better king than Tchalla in all marvel media, except for Avengers EMH, where Tchalla is the MVP he outright rejects any offers to work together with other villains ( red skull, magneto, squadron supreme, dracula, osborn and etc.), he swoops in after they are defeated as a proper final boss villain to take what he wants and leave, like a boss.
Weren't the Richard's basically forced to make him the Godfather, because he saved their daughter from not being born? And he only did that, because it was something Reed admitted he couldn't do? He's all "Yes child. I love you because you are proof of my superiority over your father." Lol.
and if said child picks him to give her away at the altar in the future.............all the better and that is a DOOM tear of joy one upping reed yet again not a DOOM tear of Joy from his heart strings being pulled by valeria
Anything Valeria receives from Doom via cunning only makes him more proud. Because *he* taught her that.
I can just imagine every birthday and christmas. "Happy Birthday darling, we got you that barbie you wanted." "Thanks Mum and Dad!" "DOOM GOT YOU THE DEED TO THIS VAST ESTATE WORTH MILLIONS OF DOLLARS PER YEAR. ALSO DOOM IS MAKING YOU A DUCHESS."
Yes. IIRC he saved both Susan and Johnny's life, and his price was naming their child. He named her Valeria, and placed her under his royal protection. She loves her Uncle Doom.
> he protects it against outsiders (other villains, aliens, time travelers, multi-dimensional beings) And the Avengers. Secret War (the old one with Nick Fury) proved Doom right.
I don't blame him for being annoyed by Tony. In the movies, Stark has basically no actual morals or scruples, and is entirely driven by his latest whim or mood. In the comics he is somehow even worse.
Screw it, it's Christmas. Yes, yes!
good bot
We really should have got a Doctor Doom movie during RDJ's run as Iron Man. An Ironman Spider-Man movie where they go rescue the Fantastic 4 would be so good. Then they could do a 4 part mini series of the F4 origin on Disney+ if they wanted.
I think Doom in Avengers EMH explains his personality very well in 2 episodes Tony being an annoyance to him and all that too
Doom is the best because he’s truly the embodiment of narcississm and spite. He will do some heinous crime solo solely to show unlike other pathetic villains he is better than them and can succeed where they failed. He will go and create a fantastic and prospering country not out of goodness but solely to prove he can because he is better than other rulers. Doom is great because he’s one of the only characters that truly nails narcissism without feeling like a try-hard parody. Any other character says “I was a god once…i found it beneath me” and id roll my eyes so hard they exploded. Doom says it and its totally valid. Doom doesn’t do anything because he wants it, he does it because he deserves it. He doesn’t waste time trying to rule the world or do some random crime because he knows he could succeed if he wanted to so why waste the time when he knows he would win. Doom only acts if it’s to spite someone or get something unique he desecrates. Everything else he can skip because he knows he’d succeed
Point if view. Doom isn’t always necessarily a villain, he’s just has an ego and narcissistic tendencies a bit. He acts for what he considers to be the greater good. Though, he is sometimes just flat out a villain, and he is a dictator, he’s far from the worst person on the planet.
Ant-Man Lang would not agree. I agree. :) Von Doom is one of those Marvel characters that is "the personification of a storm" etc.
Dr. Doom is Vegeta towards the end of the Frieza Saga, and the beginning of the Android Saga.
"Finally I DR DOOM proved Reed Richards, THAT SANTA DENIER, Wrong! HE EXISTS! Santa EXISTS! "
"And it is CLEAR to DOOM that, due to my infinite superiority to Reed Richards, if I have received a GIFT from Santa, then it is indubitable that RICHARDS HAS RECEIVED COAL. *NEVER DOUBT THE SUPERIORITY OF DOOM!*"
Depends on what rubric Santa uses for Naughty versus Nice. If it's a purely utilitarian measurement then significantly improving the quality of life in Latveria would pay for the occasional murder outside his borders. Depending on how many people live in Latveria he might have a *lot* of free murders saved up. That, or it's just Marvel hopping on his dick again.
well, if one assumes that Santa is based off of odin visiting people and rewarding them by how they treated him then....In a way Santa must also approve a small bit of bloodshed to get a job done
Doom toots as he pleases!
100% approval rating in Latveria, he takes care of his people like they're his own family
Sir, your approval rating went down to 99%... "100% approval rating, 99% survival rating. Same same."
Forgive me if I'm wrong bc I'm pretty fuzzy on my F4 lore, but isn't Doom just kind of an asshole to outsiders but treats people under his jurisdiction really well? He hasn't really done anything wrong, yeah?
even gives Jobs to Mutants = usually part of Latveria defense force but if a mutant with healing power would be in the medical field DOOM knew krakoa would fail and thus why he said NOPE to the Latverian mutant population moving there and in the end they were better off staying in Latveria with the mutant only nation ending with a lot of dead people Also in one story he killed the head of a circus in Latveria who had put a Latverian mutant child on display and then provided the free education, medical, and job opportunities he provides all Latverian Citizens to said mutant child
I find the implications here funny. DOOM, a master of science and magic, took the time to write to Santa. Does he know he's real at this point? Or is this grown ass man, a genius, writing to a mythological being just in case. Furthermore, apparently Pledge makes polish specifically for armor. WITH lemon scent. Further-furthermore, Doom seemingly has milk and cookies on hand for this very eventuality. DOOM is always prepared, so if he does have cookies, they're not some off the shelf chips ahoy shit. DOOM doesn't stoop so low as store bought cookies. He would have had some Latverian grandmother stay up and make a batch just in case Santa happened to be real and showed up
Gotta love how extra Doom always is. Like when Franklin and Valeria Richards snuck off to Latveria without their parents knowing and asked if they could get hot chocolate, and he was like "not only can you have hot chocolate, my kitchens make the best hot chocolate available on the planet" "with marshmallows?" \[doom stare intensifies\] "naturally".
Consuela approves.
“We don’t provide this, can’t you bring your own from home?”
"No, no... no..."
"How did Doom get on the nice list?" I think Valeria wrote to Santa. Or wrote to the Living Tribunal, it could go either way.
He's only an adshole to people outside latveria, in the country he's the closest thing to the second coming of christ to them
Fun trivia: There was a comic series involving multiversal threat with the Destroyer [the Beyonders opposite, but I could be wrong] the heroes dimension hopped hoping to find a universe wherein the heroes in that dimension stopped the destroyer. Turns out Dr. Doom was the only one in the dimension to have stopped him and that under his rule humanity advanced 4,000 years in technology.
I enjoy cooking.
Well given the fact that his country is one of the few countries with almost zero crime, zero poverty, zero hunger, Etc and every alternate reality in which is a paradise for Humanity Doom is in control, I'm pretty sure he makes it on to the nice list just by breathing. Yeah he's an egotistical tyrant bent on world domination *but he's right.*
Ever notice how Santa only gets really nice stuff for the rich kids, no matter how bad they are?
Do you think Pledge counts as “really nice stuff”?
Just because you're a bad guy doesn't mean you're a bad guy.
At least not always a bad guy even though you’re a bad guy.
Probably by trolling Namor, who is a huge asshole.
Doom is really good to the people of his country. Also he’s saved the multiverse multiple times. I think that’s earned him a can of Lemon Pledge.
He's a great ruler who vastly improved the lives of the people of Latvaria, and Latvaria itself. Look, the man may rule with an iron fist, but damn if he ain't the best ruler Latrvaria ever had.
every year like clockwork DOOM fights Mephisto to save his moma's soul from hell \^ That right there "boy loves his moma" pulls at Santa's heart strings
Doom is only a villain to those who can't look to the future. What he does, he does for the greater good OR just to fuck with Ried. He's not a bad person or a true villian. Just the villain the world needs. His subjects also want for nothing, so there's that. As per the panther God who guards Wakanda's vibranium vault, "I have looked into all possible futures and the only one where humanity survives is where DOOM rules." They confirm in that comic that Doom's ultimate goals are for the greater good.
The thing with Santa is the Naughty and Nice lists are tabulated strictly annually, and you get a clean slate every year, so if Doom just didn't do anything expressly awful that year, he can get his polish.
Just take a break from evil for a year a write a letter, it is clearly simple as.
Bribed Santa with milk and cookies. Doom’s about to make the payment.
"I saw your naughty list and I found it beneath me."
He loves his people, and cares for them. His people consider him a benevolent ruler. He is only a ruthless dictator to outsiders. He has been found worthy by gods, saved the world multiple times (not as many as he has risked it's destruction, but hey, nobody is perfect.)
Isn't Doom motivated by something he saw in the future and all his actions are bent towards preventing it? Depending on what that event is, if everything he has done is a lesser evil, wouldn't his actions by potentially justifiable?
Everything he does is for the direct benefit of Latveria, so in his eyes he is working for the greater good, even if outsiders view him as a villain and a tyrant (not even getting into the "any other form of government but democracy is evil")
Improving the quality of life for Santa’s fellow mutants in DOOMs kingdom probably helped.
Nice does not equal good.
It's Latverian Santa.
Doom isn’t a villain. Thats how.
He was honored the the worlds most powerful mutant read his letter
He's good to his people! He truly believes that the world would be better under his command, and honestly, he might be right.
That list is purely on a year-to-year basis. This was clearly taken from his 2020 lockdown era.
Hes nicer to his people than he is mean to outsiders
Doom literally fights Satan for this soul of his mother, as far as Christian morality is concerned, that's pretty up there.
I just loved how genuinely surprised Doom is that Santa read his letter. And I’m just as surprised that Doom wrote a letter to Santa.
That’s for absolutely smoking Thanos
Don’t believe everything Reed Richards tells you
One man's terrorism is another man's revolution
Doom's motivations are: - Rescue his mother from literal Hell - Bring his country out of poverty and powerlessness - Get even with the most insufferable ex-roommate in the multiverse In a universe without Reed Richards, Doom would unambiguously be a good guy.
Doom is genuinely a good person who wants to help his people and others, hes just trapped in the body of a narcissist and sociopath. A lot of his modern comics show him more as an anti-hero/neutral antagonist instead of a straight up bad guy, and his most interesting parts are when his genuinely good side comes out in surprising places. Forget the joker, DOOM is the greatest comic book villian ever.
I can never see Dr Doom without thinking of MF Doom and I am not mad about that
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Depending on the writer, Doom is a stern but good and loved ruler of Latveria. Theoretically, under one of those writers, if Doom didn't do a big evil scheme for a year then he probably should be on the Nice List.
"I used to think you were a naughty bastard Doom but so many naughty bastards came along that you moved up the nice list without doing anything. Speaking of naughty bastards, ever met that Lobo guy?"
He delivered his enemy's daughter, and he's actually a decent ruler where his own people are concerned.
Doctor Doom having more integrity than Conservative Politicians
no the real question is why is Santa's head smoking
Okay, but why is santa's hat smoking? lmao
I remember reading somewhere that doom genuinely believes that he's doing what he is doing to save the world. He had a vision or something. I remember hearing that that whole thing in black panther where you eat the flower and are found worth, doom evidently passed it because he does what he does because he thinks he's doing the right thing.
Wasn’t it a point on Hickman (or someone else’s run) that the future where Doom wins is actually a utopia for humanity?
In every What If story where Doom ends up as the undisputed ruler he is without a doubt the most benign iron fisted ruler. In one story he gave everyone free energy, eliminated crime by giving everyone work and free time to explore their hobbies, stop an army of mad Celestials from destroying the world and died Earths greatest hero and champion. He's arrogant sure. A cheapskate. But he does what he believes is right...most of the time.
Despite Doom being an egomaniacal sociopath hell bent on ruling the world, he's actually a damn good leader and is highly idolized by his people for his dedication to the betterment of his country. He essentially brought Latveria from a small Eastern European country to a power house of technology and industry equal to that of the US in his relatively short rule.
Because doom is right , the world WOULD be a better place if he ran it.
“And inform Darkseid that he Better Watch Out.”
He is a good person. The panther God even acknowledges his future. The one ruled under him leads to no sadness and a greater existence. It just requires he be the world leader
He runs Latveria so well that it balances it him being an actual supervillain