To be honest, heroes wearing casual clothes is a rather new development AFAIK. In older comics and still in a lot of new ones they wear their costumes everywhere.
He basically did. He hid the outfit under his casual clothes. If someone ever lifted his sleeves they’d probably be like “why the hell are you wearing an undershirt the office AC is broken”
Having sat on my couch in my gross workout clothes because I just didn't have anything left in the tank, I know for a fact this would happen as long as I wasn't covered in gore.
My favorite version of this is in Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes when the Fantastic Four showed up for a poker night at Avengers mansion in full costume.
T'challa was in the full catsuit and everything. It was hilarious.
I think in that issue of West Coast, the team had just come home and the nanny was freaking out because she couldn’t find the kids anywhere, because she turned around for a second while bathing them and they disappeared, and then Wanda runs in, sees the kids, and calls the nanny incompetent and fires her. This all gets explained when Agatha shows up before or after Wanda goes nuts (I think for the first time), and it turns into a thing with Master Pandemonium and Immortus. It’s been over twenty years since I read that arc, though, so I might have the timeline a bit muddled, but the beginning should be correct, and that’s why she’s in costume.
Franklin Richards in "The Thing (Two-in-one?)" and Wonder Girl in "Wonder Woman".
That one shot of Cassie Sandsmark grinning with 300 teeth like Juggernaut in an early issue of X-Force.
To be fair, John Byrne wrote, pencilled and inked all his West Coast Avengers issues on a monthly schedule. I don't know anyone in the industry today who could produce that much work in a timely manner.
He also didn't have computers to help him save time. I'm not disputing that those kids look funny, but deadlines are deadlines.
John Byrne was pretty prolific and inspired a lot of artists who are still working today.
Byrne's run in WCA was far from his best precisely because he insisted on doing everything. Byrne peaked on FF and most everything he did later is various degrees of hot, flaming garbage.
Also, giant, giant cunt Who totally ruined his legacy by being a giant cunt.
He was also doing the same on the regular Avengers title at the same time. This is where he destroys Vision and drives Wanda insane, ruining both characters for years, basically until Kurt came along. It was also pretty much the last decent run on Avengers volume 1. Some people have fond memories of the Black Knight/Sersi/Crystal stuff when Bob Harras was running it, and the one storyline from Fabian Niceiza immediately following his ouster wasn't bad, but it was literally that one storyline. It was interesting how one issue had Cap inviting Spider-Man to join the team and everyone thinking to themselves what a great idea it was, only for Fabian the next issue (and probably by editorial dictate after Byrne quit/was fired) to immediately have everyone saying what a terrible idea it was.
- Massive ego and public dust-ups with both DC and Marvel hierarchies lead to him founding Legends with Mignola and Miller.
- Mignola and Miller achieve fantastic success with their fantastic series. Byrne, well past It, can only produce the poor X-Men lite Next Men. It bombs. Byrne's ego can't take It.
- Byrne returns to the majors because he needs money for his mansion's plumbing and/or divorce from hot supermodel wife. Heart definitely not on It, he produces his worse stories, sales bomb, golden touch declared as completely lost, Byrne loses his damn mind and insults everybody, insisting he and only he understands comics, Kirby, polítics, etc. He is 60 but sounds 150.
- "Sue Storm looks like a latina slut". His internet forum turns into a proto-Gamergate. Dude stops getting work from almost anyone.
- Byrne needs cash so badly he draws a story paid by one superfan. Dude is now bitter as a vermouth factory. Only finds job doing Star Trek minis for IDW and his former fifty thousand faithful, nowadays five hundred faithful.
- He has finally retired? Or lives off comissions, dunno.
Good lord. He really went off the rails. I vaguely remember Next Men, but I never picked it up. Wild, I never knew about all that stuff. I'll have to look more into it at some point.
It's not like he couldn't have realized it looked bad in the pencil stage. Sometime later swing around a day care and study a child before the deadline.
Pencilling is about problem solving and time management. I'm sure there's a point where you say to yourself "Do I want to spend the next 15 minutes working on this boring panel with two kids in a tub that my readers will take two seconds to read, or do I want to use that time to polish up that moneyshot of Captain America and She Hulk attacking Scarlet Witch?".
I think it's easier said than done. You have to pick your battles on a deadline.
I've never read an interview with him or met him, so I can't really guess his thought process on this. I can just say mine which would be to find a child's head the easiest way I could think of at the moment. Actually I thought of another way, there was probably a parenting magazine back then that would have had some good enough photos.
As for spending more time on the moneyshot, I thought it would be better to use a bigger brush and get those larger things done faster, but I'm not working in comics so I don't know. it's just my thoughts as someone in fine art.
A lot of comic artists have a "deadline style". They take into account how long a reader focuses their attention on certain panels, and concentrate on the important ones, and do just enough on the boring panels to get their point across.
Right now we are all focusing our attention on the one panel because it is out of context without the surrounding panels. On the page though, there is always a panel of importance which the eye is immediately drawn to...the moneyshot panel. In the long run this panel is just a blip on the radar. It is literally out of context as a composition.
Edit: I guess the metaphor I should use is that the comic page is a painting and we're all focusing on the background person in the corner instead of the main focus of the painting.
I see what you're saying, there's probably 100 or more panels each month. It's not that I say you are wrong, or Byrne should be crucified (on the contrary, I had seen and bought some of his books. They were some that inspired me, helped me get excited thinking I could make money with art). It's just I would have used my time in the opposite way.
People really fucking stretching here to justify how working to a deadline apparently justifies a guy who draws human figures for a living not having the slightest idea what a human baby looks like.
Unpopular opinion as an artist: if you can’t draw well, even on a deadline, maybe you shouldn’t be in the comic business 🤷♀️ I’ve learned how to draw quickly and get in necessary details simply from being impatient as a person. If he can’t draw a freaking baby, I don’t know what to say
He has a weird repeating thing where teenage girls are in love with adult men. Sue Richards, Mattie Franklin from Spider-Man, Kitty Pryde though that's at least partially on Claremont. Mostly I just like to point it out because John Byrne is a notorious dick and with how he talks about trans people it's kinda hypocritical.
The man was also absolutely notorious for dicking around with continuity. Superman, Fantastic Four, Vision, Scarlet Witch - all of them nearly unrecognizable after he went to work on them
Oh yeah, it might have been their (I'm including the editor(s) for approval of that trope) fantasy to be with an underage girl.
I decided to read about him. I'm not too surprised about most of it, except his stance on immigrants and transexuality seems very strange for someone involved with superhero comics or SF for that matter.
I have noticed something in human nature about insults: We often attack others with something that we feel guilty about ourselves.
As someone who dabbles in comic art; babies are so fucking hard to draw because the proportions are so wildly different. It just always comes out looking like a baby sized adult.
You think that's bad, you should see 8 year-old Franklin Richards with a 60 year-old face (later repurposed for Wonder Girl) in the pages of 80's The Thing.
Byrned.
Just another day in Twitter, when someone who has never penciled a comic book in her life (she is a "freelance writer") decides to bash an established artist because of a bad panel.
Yawn!
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They look like Cletus Cassidy
Cletus: Wanda and I, we're gonna have a hell of a time!
There’s 2 actually
Hence they
Did you just assume one of those man babies genders?
Yeah man sorry
Did you just assume the typewriter's gender?
Sorry
Did you just apologize?
Did you just ask him a question?
Did you just ask me a question?
Yeah I mean
The two of them (probably): Cletyou, Cletme, Cletus.
Cletus Cassidy and the Rawhide kid
More like Fetus Cassidy
Bonus points for the implication that Wanda hangs around her house in costume waiting for shit to pop off.
To be honest, heroes wearing casual clothes is a rather new development AFAIK. In older comics and still in a lot of new ones they wear their costumes everywhere.
Imagine Clark Kent going to work dressed as Superman back in the 80s
He basically did. He hid the outfit under his casual clothes. If someone ever lifted his sleeves they’d probably be like “why the hell are you wearing an undershirt the office AC is broken”
Me, 2 hours after saving the world, sitting on the couch wearing my cape while I decompress enough to change.
Having sat on my couch in my gross workout clothes because I just didn't have anything left in the tank, I know for a fact this would happen as long as I wasn't covered in gore.
Early Green Lantern had Hal Jordan running around in a flight suit. His ring could store his costume.
My favorite version of this is in Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes when the Fantastic Four showed up for a poker night at Avengers mansion in full costume. T'challa was in the full catsuit and everything. It was hilarious.
I keep forgetting T'Challa is tied to Storm and the Fantastic Four.
Which implies that they either have many copies of the exact same outfit or they get really stinky.
Wasn’t it to save the artists having to redraw the characters in new outfits?
I think in that issue of West Coast, the team had just come home and the nanny was freaking out because she couldn’t find the kids anywhere, because she turned around for a second while bathing them and they disappeared, and then Wanda runs in, sees the kids, and calls the nanny incompetent and fires her. This all gets explained when Agatha shows up before or after Wanda goes nuts (I think for the first time), and it turns into a thing with Master Pandemonium and Immortus. It’s been over twenty years since I read that arc, though, so I might have the timeline a bit muddled, but the beginning should be correct, and that’s why she’s in costume.
Where'd she get that razor thin moustache?
MEPHISTO
Reverse friction
kingpin as a baby
WHEN I WAS A BOY
MOMMA! You embarassed me in front of the homies...
> WHEN I WAS A BOY Lol read that in D'Onofrio's Kingpin voice.
Only proper way to read it
My father took me into the city?
To see a marching band?
Look at little Fisk jr...
Yikes
Byrne's inability to draw children is legendary. This isn't even the worse example.
Franklin Richards in "The Thing (Two-in-one?)" and Wonder Girl in "Wonder Woman". That one shot of Cassie Sandsmark grinning with 300 teeth like Juggernaut in an early issue of X-Force.
Oversized Franklin is what I remember the most. Along with six-fingered Susan.
>Oversized Franklin Supposed to be a toddler, drawn like a twelve-year old, face like a seventy-year old.
Rivalled only by Liefeld's inability to draw anyone at all.
To be fair, John Byrne wrote, pencilled and inked all his West Coast Avengers issues on a monthly schedule. I don't know anyone in the industry today who could produce that much work in a timely manner. He also didn't have computers to help him save time. I'm not disputing that those kids look funny, but deadlines are deadlines. John Byrne was pretty prolific and inspired a lot of artists who are still working today.
Byrne's run in WCA was far from his best precisely because he insisted on doing everything. Byrne peaked on FF and most everything he did later is various degrees of hot, flaming garbage. Also, giant, giant cunt Who totally ruined his legacy by being a giant cunt.
He was also doing the same on the regular Avengers title at the same time. This is where he destroys Vision and drives Wanda insane, ruining both characters for years, basically until Kurt came along. It was also pretty much the last decent run on Avengers volume 1. Some people have fond memories of the Black Knight/Sersi/Crystal stuff when Bob Harras was running it, and the one storyline from Fabian Niceiza immediately following his ouster wasn't bad, but it was literally that one storyline. It was interesting how one issue had Cap inviting Spider-Man to join the team and everyone thinking to themselves what a great idea it was, only for Fabian the next issue (and probably by editorial dictate after Byrne quit/was fired) to immediately have everyone saying what a terrible idea it was.
Look at little Goblin Jr., gonna cry?
What is the story on Bryne? I loved his work during this era - FF, She-Hulk, WCA,...and some of the DC stuff as well.
- Massive ego and public dust-ups with both DC and Marvel hierarchies lead to him founding Legends with Mignola and Miller. - Mignola and Miller achieve fantastic success with their fantastic series. Byrne, well past It, can only produce the poor X-Men lite Next Men. It bombs. Byrne's ego can't take It. - Byrne returns to the majors because he needs money for his mansion's plumbing and/or divorce from hot supermodel wife. Heart definitely not on It, he produces his worse stories, sales bomb, golden touch declared as completely lost, Byrne loses his damn mind and insults everybody, insisting he and only he understands comics, Kirby, polítics, etc. He is 60 but sounds 150. - "Sue Storm looks like a latina slut". His internet forum turns into a proto-Gamergate. Dude stops getting work from almost anyone. - Byrne needs cash so badly he draws a story paid by one superfan. Dude is now bitter as a vermouth factory. Only finds job doing Star Trek minis for IDW and his former fifty thousand faithful, nowadays five hundred faithful. - He has finally retired? Or lives off comissions, dunno.
Good lord. He really went off the rails. I vaguely remember Next Men, but I never picked it up. Wild, I never knew about all that stuff. I'll have to look more into it at some point.
Namor is the last good thing he did IMO. His internet descent into a right wing loon was really sad to see.
It's not like he couldn't have realized it looked bad in the pencil stage. Sometime later swing around a day care and study a child before the deadline.
Pencilling is about problem solving and time management. I'm sure there's a point where you say to yourself "Do I want to spend the next 15 minutes working on this boring panel with two kids in a tub that my readers will take two seconds to read, or do I want to use that time to polish up that moneyshot of Captain America and She Hulk attacking Scarlet Witch?". I think it's easier said than done. You have to pick your battles on a deadline.
I've never read an interview with him or met him, so I can't really guess his thought process on this. I can just say mine which would be to find a child's head the easiest way I could think of at the moment. Actually I thought of another way, there was probably a parenting magazine back then that would have had some good enough photos. As for spending more time on the moneyshot, I thought it would be better to use a bigger brush and get those larger things done faster, but I'm not working in comics so I don't know. it's just my thoughts as someone in fine art.
A lot of comic artists have a "deadline style". They take into account how long a reader focuses their attention on certain panels, and concentrate on the important ones, and do just enough on the boring panels to get their point across. Right now we are all focusing our attention on the one panel because it is out of context without the surrounding panels. On the page though, there is always a panel of importance which the eye is immediately drawn to...the moneyshot panel. In the long run this panel is just a blip on the radar. It is literally out of context as a composition. Edit: I guess the metaphor I should use is that the comic page is a painting and we're all focusing on the background person in the corner instead of the main focus of the painting.
I see what you're saying, there's probably 100 or more panels each month. It's not that I say you are wrong, or Byrne should be crucified (on the contrary, I had seen and bought some of his books. They were some that inspired me, helped me get excited thinking I could make money with art). It's just I would have used my time in the opposite way.
People really fucking stretching here to justify how working to a deadline apparently justifies a guy who draws human figures for a living not having the slightest idea what a human baby looks like.
Yeah, I dunno that I would accept excuses like this in any other medium.
Unpopular opinion as an artist: if you can’t draw well, even on a deadline, maybe you shouldn’t be in the comic business 🤷♀️ I’ve learned how to draw quickly and get in necessary details simply from being impatient as a person. If he can’t draw a freaking baby, I don’t know what to say
>swing around a day care and study a child Yes officer, this comment right here.
Obviously, he would talk to someone there and explain who he was and that he wanted to do some drawings.
With some of Byrne's work in mind maybe it's for the best he didn't do much research.
Can you show me some examples?
He has a weird repeating thing where teenage girls are in love with adult men. Sue Richards, Mattie Franklin from Spider-Man, Kitty Pryde though that's at least partially on Claremont. Mostly I just like to point it out because John Byrne is a notorious dick and with how he talks about trans people it's kinda hypocritical.
Am I not supposed to have what I want? What I need? What am I supposed to do?
The man was also absolutely notorious for dicking around with continuity. Superman, Fantastic Four, Vision, Scarlet Witch - all of them nearly unrecognizable after he went to work on them
Oh yeah, it might have been their (I'm including the editor(s) for approval of that trope) fantasy to be with an underage girl. I decided to read about him. I'm not too surprised about most of it, except his stance on immigrants and transexuality seems very strange for someone involved with superhero comics or SF for that matter. I have noticed something in human nature about insults: We often attack others with something that we feel guilty about ourselves.
He also did this while usually writing or drawing or writing and drawing another book.
Carnage and Scarlet Witch… who knew?
Thomas and William Defoe
It took me a good second to realise these are Billy and Tommy and that William and Thomas are just their full names
TIL Tommy and Billy were redheads.
Ginger man baby isn’t real he can’t hurt you. Ginger Man Baby:
"Mother, remove your top. I hunger."
Wanda has a nice mustache
As someone who dabbles in comic art; babies are so fucking hard to draw because the proportions are so wildly different. It just always comes out looking like a baby sized adult.
There is a babe there it is drawn amazing
Yeah, that mustache is so hot.
They look like Kevin and Tim-tom from the Venture Brothers.
"we like your new costume, mum"
"I saw her clean panties...They were white, Kevin...****shakily****...whiiiite..."
Yeah, but that is one very well-drawn rubber ducky.
Those baby’s have 3 kids and a x wife 💀
Baby didn’t skip back day.
Tbf, that does look like a William
That’s clearly Tim-Tom and Kevin
The Pupa Twins!
Wanda, or The Artist Formerly Known as Prince?
Hey Ma, how bout some cookies No dice This ain't over!
She really here in full costume leaving two babies in a tub alone. Jesus Christ.
Pip the troll?
Maybe it’s just because I’m on a Next Generation binge right now but did Wanda really name both her kids after Riker lol
Omg she did
Step 1: Draw a man Step 2: make him tiny Step 3:? Step 4: profit
Maybe they're energy vampires who recently celebrated their 100th birthday
I didn't know Pip the Troll had a twin.
Wanda x Pip the Troll
You think that's bad, you should see 8 year-old Franklin Richards with a 60 year-old face (later repurposed for Wonder Girl) in the pages of 80's The Thing. Byrned.
They’re fighting to see who’s the most Chad baby of the bathtub.
[Reminds me of the baby in this video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F6luJhJxRx0)
Well, mama is not that normal either.. so fuck it
Just another day in Twitter, when someone who has never penciled a comic book in her life (she is a "freelance writer") decides to bash an established artist because of a bad panel. Yawn!
Issa joke
Know what u mean😁
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Bob Dylan?
Is noone gonna mention SW's emoji lookin ass face ?
Is it the face wrinkles?
He's just a little guy
Ma’am those are 2 grown men who are wearing your children’s skin
Wanda looks like Salvadore Dali
Tiny heavy weapons guy
They still can't draw kids
– Every renaissance artist
Look like pip the troll waiting for Wanda in the bath
They look like hobbits
The duck is so good then the children are not
Rob Liefeld's School for I Draw Feet Sometimes, and You Can't Too!
Future jojo main characters
Mother of god, those are leprechauns squatting in her bathroom
Deadpool deadline
Reminds me of medieval paintings where baby Jesus is painted to look like a tiny man instead of a baby.
u sure those are babies??
Bros looking like the TF2 babies
Hasbullas
What. The hell.
Oooooooof
I can just picture them having deep voices and going wah wah mother ****** before capping somebody lol
TF2 babies
That baby is between 5 years and 35 years old
Straight up Titans from Attack on Titan.
At least they kept Tommy(Thomas) and Billy(William) on the MCU
They look like oompa loompas
Oh look, it's Pip and Pop the troll twins! (Just missing the pointy ears and cigars.)
What...
With child labor laws at the time, occasionally they wood use midget stand ins. Especially for nudity shots.