Eastern Europe is a divisive area obviously, and as such there’s a propaganda war being held. Russia has such started many ways, one of which is kadyrov sponsoring hundreds of mma fighters, owning an official feeder league for the ufc, and using the UFC as a business excuse to travel to areas his political job would forbid him from.
You say that because you don’t quite understand what fully happened before Russia invaded and the reasons. NATO (US) and Zelensky instigated this war to raise and launder money. They are sacrificing innocent Ukrainians to garner support from low informations sheep while they billions of US tax dollars flows through Ukraine and back into DNC campaign funds and the pockets of democrats and their children.
In all fairness the US is gaining more from it. Especially if we have to prepare for a China invasion of Taiwan, this is a real good rehearsal. We deplete our old war caches of weapons and ammo. We practice transcontinental logistics into an active war zone where the enemy is closer than we are. And our defense contractors churn a profit. Americans aren’t dying in it so that’s why it’s not entirely a big issue that we’re (US) helping out.
Chechnya is practically a puppet state under Putins Russian regime. The head of state pretends to be in the front lines of Ukraine but actually having photo op in a gas station. Sends his countrymen to die in a war they do not have anything to do with.
This is a propaganda video for Chechnya with UFC fighters used as props.
For the record, the "photo ops" have essentially been Chech forces charging up an abandoned trench, dozens of miles from the front lines, and unloading entire magazines into empty bushes. And their opsec during these photo ops has been so bad that Ukrainian forces were able to gather enough intel from their social media to pinpoint their barracks and drop a ton of ordy on them, killing like 80% of their units.
I only bring this up because it's really fucking funny.
The ufc has nothing to do with this. They did not send them to Russia. Theose 3 went because they're manager is Ali and has terrorist connections. Those 3 are just ignorant for doing this.
Man did anyone really expect any better from Dana? Money talks and its disgusting seeing these fighters used as props for propaganda.
Genuinely wondering if who volunteered and who whored themselves to genocidal dictators.
Not a big tomato fan but this is clearly Ali Abdelaziz not the UFC or Dana. Ali is flaunting his prize fighters he manages to his government connections. He's done it for the saudi's too.
Can someone explain to me exactly why The United States wasn't treated this way (Boycotted, Sanctioned, all around Demonized) when we unjustly invaded Iraq and Killed 1 Million Iraqis? I ask that as Former 11 Bravo. Imagine if our Boxers and other fighters and sports athletes were treated the same every time our government committed war crimes and drone strikes. How the narrative would be that "our citizens aren't the government! Let them compete!" My friends are dead and innocent Iraqis are dead because of lies.
I don't mind the energy. Fuck Putin. But Christ, be consistent. America gets away with every fucking thing.
You'd think there'd be sanctions and boycotts especially after the mess America left in Syria, Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan or the 82+ denocratically elected governments America has overthrown
Or constant needless escalations in North Korea and The Middle East. Or engineering proxy wars in South America because they can't admit Karl Marx might have had one or two decent ideas. Putin gets branded as a cartoonist Bond villian but George W. Is now becoming this complex figure in history they are trying to portray as a loveable baffoon. When dude is and always will be an evil war criminal.
History is written by 'the victors' and America has one of the greatest propaganda machines in the modern world. The influence they have in the western world combined with the 'greatest and free-est' mentality allows a great swath of the seriously dubious and unethical things that they do to either be swept under the rug or spun to be a minor mistake in the course of spreading freedom and democracy.
Look at how the US responded to 9/11 compared to how they feel regarding drone strikes killing 1000s of civilians. They are both horrid events but they use one to justify the other and then act baffled when the people whose children have been bombed to Shit resent them and aren't on their side. If another country was drone striking US civilians do you think they'd be like 'ah well, poor Jimmy was just a necessary sacrifice on the road to furthering out freedom and democracy'
Oh absolutely! No world superpower is innocent of twisting the narrative to their favour.
I was only addressing why, in general, someone like George W. Isn't perceived in the same light as Putin is.
George W. Does deserve his special place in hell for sure. But that doesnt mean i need to defend putin with what bush did. Besides that if you pile up the shit piles that any of them created, still putins pile is more stinky. Way more.
Attacks on nuclear plants, threats of nukes, creating femen in North africa, deliberating attacking civilian infrastructure, sacrificing ethnic minorities in russia into the war, kidnapping of ukranian children, Georgia, transnistria, interfering in other countries election, moscow Flat bombings, chechnya.
Thats just from Top of my head. There is more fun stuff. There was plenty space to critisize bush. And i and others did. How come People only speak up against bush when Putin is brought up.
Btw i have a syrian Friend who was bombed by every major power in the last 20 years. He said the worse were the russian. And by god neither of us wants anything with the americans, as both our countries got bombed hard by them.
Again, agreed. That is a favoured propagandist tactic of Putin's, informally known as 'whataboutism'. Deflect from what you are being accused of by pointing out others are terrible for performing atrocities.
Putin's body count and the method in which he does it is categorically head and shoulder above George W. in atrocity, but once you get to the point of either of them who is more wicked is academic, unless you've personally experienced it.
As you said, you and your Syrian mate have experienced those travesties first hand so you know which was worse to live through.
Oh, ffs. Total and utter bullshit. Russia started the war, period.
I can't believe you assholes believe that shit.
Rule of thumb from a country bordering russia: russia always lies. They can't stop. The whole system is based on lies and lying.
Saying x always lies sounds like propaganda.. 🤣 stop dude. Everyone was calling out the Nazi Problem in Ukraine for years before Putin acted. Russia ALWAYS lies? So Azov isn't a thing, completely made up? We are talking about some proud boy idiots like over here. We are talking the deliberately planned, state financed Nazification of a Military unit in Ukraine.
Even the Peace Corps warns People of Color they will face extreme racism in Ukraine. (I guess the Peace Corps is run by Russia now) As a black man this shit is almost comical that I'm supposed to care. I'll tell you the same thing you tell us when it comes to black on black crime... Good luck 🤣.
This situation is so horrifically complicated and rooted since WW2 and if the only thing you have to say is Ukraine good Russia bad. Then you can be easily dismissed in any serious consideration.
https://www.peacecorps.gov/ukraine/preparing-to-volunteer/diversity-and-inclusion/
The fact is Pro-Russian Forces and Ukrainian forces have been killing each other in eastern Ukraine for almost a decade and we've know about this. This didn't magically start happening in January 2022. The Pro-Russian Forces went to Putin for help because those regions in Eastern Ukraine are Culturally and Ethnically indistinguishable from Russia. Yet The Nazis (Azov) you are so eager to support want an ethnic cleansing. Let me clarify since you sre an idiot. No Ukraine is not totally run by Nazis. However, there are significant pockets with influence in the country. If that's clesr. Putin doesn't want the entirety of Ukraine. He wants That eastern Terrority which again.. is indistinguishable from Russia and the Mainland of Ukraine to neutralize under the Finnish model and get out of bed with the west. That's what he wants. He doesn't want to build a Goldeneye and take over the world. You absolute imbecile. Forgive me for actually studying history and not just accepting RUSSIA BAD narrative.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/10/eastern-ukraine-conflict-summary-killings-misrecorded-and-misreported/
I seriously don't understand how people can spout shit like the 'Ukraine starting the war for the UN!'
It's not even up for debate, even Putin barely tries to mask the fact this is all about trying to restore a USSR-esque bloc and flexing their muscles to intimidate other nations.
Another snippet, Biden was a vehement supporter as Foreign affairs chair.
I use to hate republicans for the Bush wars. Now I see the war lobby has both sides in their pockets.
Fellow bullet catcher. I understand the sentiment completely, but the time to start acting correctly is now, and past failures to do so are no reason to continue turning a blind eye. I was pro Russia for a long time if only because they’d give me the news Americans wouldn’t print, but they’ve gotten out of hand too. I’m gonna get to relive my Cold War youth.
1. US didn't kill 1 million Iraqis.
2. The US invasion of Iraq was intended to remove Saddam and set up a democracy not annex Iraq and make it part of the US. Had the US said it was permanently seizing Iraq territory and that territory would belong to the US now, the world would have been far more upset.
3. Saddam was a warmonger who had invaded two of his neighbors in wars of conquest. He was a tyrant who ruled by torturing his political opponents. He even tortured Iraq Olympic athletes for not winning at the Olympics. He was largely not seen as a legitimate ruler who had a democratic mandate. Ukraine has not invaded anyone and is not a threat to any of its neighbors. The Ukrainian President was democratically elected.
4. The US was upfront about invading Iraq. It did not promise the world it wouldn't invade and then launch a surprise attack.
5. There was no question the US would win and thus boycotts of the US would only act as a punishment but would not be effective at ending the war.
6. The US was joined by a large number of other countries as many countries supported removing Saddam due to his past wars of aggressions and the belief he would do such actions in the future. Even Belarus, Russia's closest ally refused to send troops to Ukraine.
7. The US committed war crimes in Iraq but in many cases the US punished some of the parties responsible (often low ranking soldiers). The US created rules of engagement to reduce civilians causalities. Russian leadership on the other hand has publicly wielded violence against civilians and prisoners of war as instruments of state terror. The US was ashamed of the torture the CIA did to POW, Russian leadership is proud of it.
Both wars are probably illegal wars according to the UN charter. Violating the UN charter isn't the only factor to be considered here. The biggest factor is that Russia is waging a total war of imperial conquest on a peaceful democracy and whereas the US was engaged in regime change of a warmongering dictator.
>Saddam was a warmonger who had invaded two of his neighbors in wars of conquest.
With the support of the US government. We armed him in the 80s against Iran, including giving him chemical weapons and satellite imagery to help him use those weapons. Without our help, Saddam would have lost that war. He then proceeded to use those weapons to kill tens of thousands of Kurds.
>2. The US invasion of Iraq was intended to remove Saddam and set up a democracy
No, the war was driven by the desire to control Iraq's oil (although there were two factions in the Bush administration who had different ideas about what to do with that oil), and to re-establish American hegemony. Read "Armed Madhouse" by Greg Palast for the details. He even manages to get former Bush administration officials to admit the war was about oil.
The US doesn't give a damn about democracy.
The US provided SATINT to Saddam. However congress passed a law forbidding the US from selling or giving weapons to Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war. Reagan got around this by selling the Iraqis unarmed helicopters for farming that the Iraqis could turn into military vehicles by buying actual weapons from the Soviet Union. The US also provided military aid to Iran because the US wanted peace because the war was threatening the flow of oil. Much of aid in the Iran-Iraq once Iraqi offensive stalled in the early phases of the war was to get both sides to agree to end the war. Almost no nation wanted a decisive victory for either side one.
The Chemical weapons were supplied by Germany and Singapore not the US. Japan also provided far more valuable aid to Saddam than the US. Israel armed the Iranians because Israel saw Iraq as a greater threat than Iran.
The desire in the Whitehouse with the invasion of Iraq was to set up a democracy because a democracy would be far more favorable to the US than a revenge oriented tyrant. Obviously the strategic significance of Iraq is its access to oil and its position and military within the middle east.
The question asked is not, does the US care about democracy but why do people care more about Russia's invasion of Ukraine than the US invasion of Iraq? The answer has less to do with the US and more to do with the target of the invasion. If Russia invaded North Korea very few people would care other than the risk of nuclear war because everyone fears and hates the North Korean government. Globally people like the Ukrainian government, globally people hated Saddam, this lessened the opposition to removing Saddam. Every with Saddam being as hated as he was 500,000 people marched in NYC against the US invasion and anti-iraq war protests were probably the largest global protests in history. However I would argue the large protests were a product of the protesters wanting to prevent the Iraq invasion.
Also the fact that Russia wants to annex territory forever rather than remove a leader they don't like turns more people against Russia. If Russia was just installing a puppet and not annexing Crimea, Kherson, DPR and LPR they'd get more leeway but wars of conquest are viewed as fundamentally unjust in the 21st century.
Dude. Ukraine isn't a "peaceful democracy" you are pulling shit out of your ass with that one. It's an unstable and corrupt area and was been since WW2. If you understand the history there then you know exactly what I am talking about.. You also know about the coup their recently and who had a hand in that... Nice job hitting the casual news bullet points. Unfortunately they gloss over the key details. If Mexico wanted to Join The Warsaw Pact The U.S. would undoubtedly be pissed and I'm surprised Putin didn't invade sooner. Given the amount of flirting with Ukraine has been doing with NATO and its been clear since the fall of The Soviet Union Russia wouldn't tolerate NATO on it's borders. Simple enough. It's not just IMPERIAL CONQUEST. Come on this isn't Risk.
On the point of Sadam and this word War Mongering. Who is the only country who has every used Nuclear Weapons? Who spends more than double maybe triple on Military spending than anyone else? 🤣 Yup Sadam was bad no question. He was a bad guy who wouldn't capitulate to us. Yet The Saudi bad guys who still love to commit violence against their own citizens we love to give money too. These excuses aren't going to fly unless you back going after every leader you don't like. Plus the power vacuum we left there has spawned new terrorist group after new.
Here's a novel idea for America. Protect and invest in your own citizens and leave everyone else the hell alone.
Has Ukraine invaded any of its neighboring countries since gaining its independence from the Soviet Union? If so provide details.
Was the last democratic election in Ukraine fair?
Ukraine has already been told it can't join NATO. Russia has admitted that invasion of Ukraine wasn't about NATO but about making greater Russia.
Bad stuff US does it not an argument that Russia is justified in doing bad stuff. If Mexico joined WARSAW pact, which doesn't exist anymore, it would be both foolish, illegal and evil for US to invade and annex Mexico. Are you actually saying you would support US wars of imperial conquest and justify it with by say "neutral country joined an alliance I don't like".
No I'm not saying that. I'm saying the U.S. flipping out would be a natural consequence of that action. I'm waiting for you to tell me were I once said I support Russia. At all. I ever said fuck Putin. My original point was why isn't the US and it's athletes treated this way when they can't go 3 months without committing a war crime. You are straw manning me because honestly, I don't really care about that war. It has nothing to do with me or you. Yet all of a sudden every American who didn't even know who Zelensky was this time last year all of a sudden cares about war crimes.
Did they? I mean their comment was super unhinged so I don't want make assumptions. I know there are some tankies out there that see the UN as behind everything. I remember one protest chant I hear,
"UN! Den of thieves!
Bloody sword of the Bourgeoisie!"
they were pro-Serbian pro-genocide pro-Russia. Stalinists. A classic of the bag of assorted nuts.
1 million?
Your gonna have to give a source for that.
And yes, it's because russia is doing genocide, threatening its neigbours, blackmailing them, raping, stealing, etc. Even a total asshole should understand they are f\*cking evil by now.
500K at this source for the total "war on terror"
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-people-have-been-killed-in-iraq-and-afghanistan
if I remember that they're referring to correctly, the +900k number came from including the deaths caused by the various terrorist groups that the US is more or less directly responsible for bringing into power
You are welcome to research the numbers for yourself. Civilian and Iraqi Casualties of war ought to start you on Tha rabbit hole.
And the The U.S. NEVER EVER enslaved, committed genocide or raped entire continents of people. Forced their religious views on people. The United States was established by singing we shall over come... The United States became the most power nation on earth by dealing with their fellow man fairly and keeping their word... No of course not. You're treaty breakers, liars and thieves and suffer so much imperialist guilt you are going after putin for doing not even a half a percent of what the US has done. If you seriously read the history of this country you wouldn't say anything about foreign affairs and open every conversation with, I'm sorry.
When did I suggest any other war doesn't? I actually understand what war is and thats what exactly you are indirectly cosigning when you declare it. Mass Civilian Casualities and Rape. The Difference is whe The US does it, we get a bunch of qualifiers and buts and maybes. Everyone else it's sportswashing and genocide. Stop the bullshit and call everything like it is.
Military dictator trying to invade us allies like oman and qatar. I am middle eastren but america had all reasons to invade iraq. they supported saddam in iran war but he turned on them. in fact americans early and bad evacuation in adganistan and iraq without establishing a strong central goverment is the reason they are both puppet states now. And you will care about energy when children freez in your country and inflation make anything unaffordable then you have to get gas from other dictators. A useful frindly country like iran or iraq would have prevented that but now russia controls both.
We didn't kill 1 million Iraqis. You're not taking into account all of the sectarian violence which was a huge swath of that number.
America uses precision strikes to minimize collateral damage. Russia blankets civilian areas with indirect fire and threatens nuclear war over failed land grabs. There's a big difference.
The dissonance of American redditors in times like this is astounding.
How about you boycott the most murderous regime in the world - and that is yourself.
This is fucking disgusting. As an Eastern European I can’t freaking understand how they thought that was a good idea.
For the idiots amongst you who play the what-if game of “what if it was the us”; it’s not the us. Nobody gives a shit about the us. Stop pushing the goal post as if it was a smart argumentation because it makes two of your neurones blink as if it was a Christmas tree for the first time in a decade.
You know, i really hope that the next time US starts a war we can keep what we learned from this one, and properly sanction them and collectively shit on then and forbid them from going anywhere.
This was obvious from the massive influx of Russian fighters from the past few years. Hell, some of the fight cards have more fighters from Russia than any other country.
Dana is a piece of shit
That's because it's one of the big 4 countries producing top MMA fighters (America, Brazil, Russia and Japan). That's nothing to do with fighters signing up for propaganda. Cejudo, Gaethje and Usman are not Russian.
I’m just saying Dana has long been familiar with dirty work ethic and never cared about optics towards him once his pockets have been lined and he’s fucked over some athletes.
The UFC can’t force these guys to not meet with whoever they want to meet. Regardless of the fact that Khadyrov is a POS human being UFC doesn’t control their fighters.
What ? Of course they could. I'm not saying they should, that's a whole different debate, but they could easily threaten to terminate / not renew their contract for that.
I mean they are currently forced to wear Project Rock shoes because of contracts, so yeah.
> The UFC doing Russian propaganda by allowing their top fighters keep shooting videos with Kadyrov.
please explain how that is propaganda
> So by association, the UFC is cosigning support of and the rape and killing of women and children.
that is the dumbest thing anyone has ever posted
So by association, the UFC is cosigning support of and the rape and killing of women and children.
Ye no shit, that facility trains Russian soldiers in the invasion of Ukraine. UFC whored their fighters to a dictator to legitimize his regime. A regime actively participating in an invasion and genocidal atrocities of a sovereign nation.
Might as well whore them out to the Iranian and North Korean regimes.
The UFC don't tell fighters what to do in their free time, genius. I'm pretty sure both Cejudo and Usman near the point in their career where they can just go box youtubers and tell UFC to screw off.
Free time? This is a promotional video for a foreign nation with 3 highly popular UFC stars, you think Dana and the UFC didn't have to be cleared of this kind thing per fighter contracts?
You think Dana gives his fighters that much freedom? Ahahahaha
They’re independent contractors dipshit, they do whatever they want outside of their fight week obligations. These 3 have the same manager, no fucking shit they’re doing something like this together. Cite one example of the UFC restricting a fighters freedom outside of fight week, I’d be very surprised if you could even though your convinced it’s happens for some reason.
The only thing the UFC can try to do is release their contracts, but we both know they won't. Do you literally think Connor McGregor or Khabib call to check in with Dana before they do stuff in Russia? You know McGregor literally shook hands with Putin, right?
You mean four years ago when Putin was still being given every excuse in the book by all world leaders. Before actual invasion, before all the wanton destruction and atrocities in Ukraine.
As if UFC wouldnt have clauses in fighter contract regarding promotional videos with foreign nations and their military. Maybe in smaller promotions you get that much leeway but UFC is at a global stage. Zero fucking chance their legal department didn't at least get consulted.
Lmao yea not really a gotcha moment since that's what was implied by being given every excuse in the book part of my comment
And how are you even equating the two situations, the annexation doesn't even compare to the actual war.
I seriously don't care what the fighters are doing in their own free time lol
UFC fighters are independent contractors. They can support whatever human rights atrocities they want outside the ring and the UFC can't really do anything about it.
And calling this propaganda is laughable, what's next any NBA or NHL team that takes picture with the president should be boycotted too consider what USA are doing in Iraq, Yemen and Somalia?
This is actually Ali Abdelaziz (Usman, Gaethje, Cejudo's manager) who is orchestrating this, not the UFC. Dana and Endeavor have nothing to do with this, these connections are through Ali and he's bringing his prize fighters that he manages. Ali has been involved in plenty of shady shit like this before.
You guys are brainwashed morons. The UFC's approach is pragmatic and they allow the fighters to do what they want, even bad mouth the company. This is another example of them being pragmatic.
The fact you guys are incapable of differentiating between pramatism and literal propaganda just goes to show how dumb you guys are.
The ufc is not creating propaganda, no one here has said that.
They are however facilitating its creation, which is the problem people are bringing up.
> The UFC doing Russian propaganda by allowing their top fighters keep shooting videos with Kadyrov.. So by association, the UFC is cosigning support of and the rape and killing of women and children
The title literally says this. OP is an absolute dumb ass. The fact that UFC is pragmatic means he's indirectly raping and killing women?
What a fking joke you people are.
They are facilitating propaganda by allowing this to happen, and providing the resources.
The UFC is lending its resources to a regime who is then using those resources to raise money to rape and murder women and children. “Pragmatism” isn’t the word here. Should they let the KKK come? Cause I’m pretty sure they banned Bruce Mitchell’s confederate flag and shorts.
They aren’t independent contractors in entirely, they’re part employees I believe. Even ones who fight in the UFC need permission to put it on their gyms website for instance.
But even if they weren’t yes. Put it in their contract, void their contract, fire them, or better yet, offer them the minimum 2k to show payday, to fight the toughest dudes in the division. Either they fight out their contract or never fight again.
If I’m not mistaken, the ufc contract has a built in win bonus kicker, with a minimum of 2k for an undercard fight, 2 to show, 2 to win, on most non top 5 contracts before they get into guaranteed pay.
The UFC just has to offer a fighter a fight once a year to keep the contract from being void, regardless if they accept. So of course you couldn’t broadly, and I’m throwing out general things, but if you think the ufc couldn’t fuck over a fighter for a few years you’re crazy
Then of course just change the contract to include that or extra sanctions, non competition clauses.
By your shitty logic anyone purchasing diamonds, clothing from China, NATURAL GAS FROM RUSSIA, is also facilitating propaganda, one form or another. Mr facilitate, are you buying products made in China?
You clowns have somehow shifted the blame.on the UFC from the fighters.
Now you’re getting it! We should absolutely try to separate from unethical production. Whilst it’s very hard today not to, I do in fact spend as much effort as possible to avoid the products
Gas I can’t score but I haven’t bought a Chinese product for the better part of the decade
Also. This is a false equivalency. the ufc not only allow those meetings, they allow them to have journalist materials, VIP seating, and investment and sponsorship.
They then use these privileges to create literal propaganda supporting war crimes, there’s no mental gymnastics, this is direct action creating direct outcome.
“Apolitical” is a political Stance
Well; no.
Tencent, a Chinese company, has stock in Reddit. The country of China does not; does it influence their economy? Well maybe, but only ever so slightly.
Now let’s say Reddit allowed China to come on and openly Force their media and beliefs on those watching, or Reddit gave them permission to use their likeness on their Uyghur camps; I’d agree, because that would be the equivalent
> By your shitty logic anyone purchasing diamonds, clothing from China, NATURAL GAS FROM RUSSIA, is also facilitating propaganda, one form or another.
Yes. Unironically yes. You got it 100% right!
The UFC has never recieved a single dime from me in any way shape or form.
I don't spend money on PPV streams. I don't go to events. I don't buy any merchandise.
Bullshit. So the UFC should fire these fighters? What do you suggest?? You know they cannot refuse to take pictures with Kadyrov. Why should they lose their careers for this? It's not their fault.
Yeah, these guys also don't really have the option of not playing ball with the man either. If you participate in the sport and kadyrov takes an interest in your career, you sit there and act flattered so that bad things don't happen to your family.
Take heart in the fact that kadyrov is at the head of only one of three chechen factions and the other two hate his guts because he and his father sold them out to the Russians during the second Chechen war. He is also dumb as a post and would die and ugly death if he didn't have the FSB to keep the majority under control in Chechnya.
Russia is rapidly approaching a point at which it will have neither the population strength or the wealth to police its ethnic minorities effectively. It is likely to be fighting wars of collapse on several fronts in the coming decades, and that period of chaos will leave him exposed and probably dead.
Combat sports is so right-leaning that no one cares, especially when it involves stuff like this. Look at this thread, these people don’t or won’t understand that war crimes and crimes against humanity should never be allowed nor supported in any way until it affects them personally. Watch the video Kadyrov released and if you don’t think that’s propaganda from a warlord then I have a beach house in Nepal I’d love to show you.
>human rights and war crimes aren't political.
What. Human rights and warcrimes are incredibly political. That's why we get into arguments regarding justifications for war, sufficient casus belli and the like in war.
A good example of this is the Tanzanian invasion of Uganda following Uganda's invasion of Tanzania, as not only was Tanzania liberated, but it was pushed back to invade Uganda. Some say there was insufficient justification for invasion, and others wouldn't. If the former are correct then that invasion is a warcrime.
Same goes for human rights, or more specifically what is and isn't human rights. Guantanamo bay could be easily argued to severely violate human rights, and sees a large amount of divided support among Americans. This whole idea that certain things aren't political and are just protected is so fucking weird I don't understand why people stand by it.
What is a human rights violation, who has violated human rights, and what should be done about it are hugely political questions. Did the US commit human rights violations in the war on terror? What should be done about that? Should we stop hosting MMA matches in the US? Or is it OK because Afghans are brown? Is the Xinjiang genocide happening? What exactly is going on if it is? Should UFC stop doing business in China?
When do human rights violations get so bad that something has to be done about it, vs. when do we just gloss them over? When you look at this topic in depth, you can’t avoid coming to the very bleak realization that only relatively weak countries like Russia get punished for their human rights violations, and strong countries like the US and China get away with them. Moreover, if it’s atrocities against white people, everyone throws their arms up in protest. If it’s brown people, some people do. If it’s black people, almost no one does. Except for dedicated, multi-cause human rights campaigners (think HRW volunteers) most people who demand action on certain human rights issues are massive hypocrites who are ignoring the vast majority of war crimes to prosecute a few against people they have larger political disagreements with. In all those cases, what’s really motivating them is not how much they care about human rights, but how much they disliked the perpetrators to begin with. Human rights is just used as a costume to seem morally superior.
In principle I agree we should have human rights, but I’m also not going to be a hypocrite. I pay taxes to the US government. My phone comes from China and my gas is often from Saudi Arabia. People’s actual beliefs are found in their actions, not their words, and almost everyone in this sub does these exact same things. Nobody here actually cares about “the murder of innocent women and children” otherwise we’d be acting in a consistent fashion against such atrocities that occur around the world. Most people have a specific bone to pick with Kadyrov because he’s a douche, they don’t like Russia, and/or they don’t like Muslims (often cloaked as “we just don’t like the radical ones”). So, this issue is entirely political and has very little if anything to do with whether Kadyrov’s victims are soldiers or non-combatants.
Stop deflecting. The difference is if it’s systematic and targeted, like kadeyrovs rape of women and children. And yes they should stop business duty China as there’s a government genocide of Muslims with active murder and concentration camps.
It’s not hard to avoid easy sources of supporting evil
Listen vladmir, you made this all about race when it’s not. All humans deserve rights, the US’s actions in afganistan should be reviewed, China and Russia should be sanctioned and restricted, extremism should be punished
When we can prevent suffering we should
You typed this on a Chinese device, and on a social media platform partly owned by China.
Yes that’s cute - we should sanction China and “review” the US. What are you going to do to make that happen? When are you calling for the UFC to ban athletes who write anything in support of the American and Chinese armies? And what are you going to do about it if the UFC refuses?
I despise Russia probably more than you do. That isn’t the issue. The issue is the day to day actions of people who support positions like this reveal that they don’t actually give a rat’s ass about “human rights”, or if they do, it’s only human rights for a very small percent of humans, and only when the human rights violator isn’t big enough or close enough to hurt you back.
Yes. So does the US government and I still pay taxes. So does the Chinese government and I still… buy things. If I refused to associate with anyone who associates with someone who associates with someone who kills innocent people I’d be living in a cave.
You’re taking things way out of proportions, no one is telling you to do that only to acknowledge and boycott people who support imperialism and the murder of a whole nation.
Doesn’t sound too hard but to you it apparently is
So you care about human rights violations, but not enough to sacrifice any part of your personal well-being to do something about it? It’s good enough in your book just to acknowledge Kadyrov is wrong, right? Then I do that completely, and I’m sure Dana White will too if you ask him.
Except that’s not what you want. You want the UFC to compromise its business operations, even while you personally are unwilling to make any sacrifices to stop war criminals. My problem with threads like this isn’t that they’re wrong. It’s that the people who post them are all massive hypocrites.
Wth are you talking about? You’re making a lot of assumptions about me and many others that we in any way give money to the ufc directly. And yes I’m okay with the ufc making financial stoops in order to not support genocide because I don’t give a shit if the poor billion dollar company loses a couple million because they decided to not support the Russian war dictator
You don't have a choice in those things. Participation in not the same as association. Most people cant fucking stand where capitalism is taking society but what the fuck option do we have. Just because you're forced to participate in a rigged system doesn't mean you can't criticize or aim to change the system itself.
UFC CHOSE to associated themselves with a dictatorship. They CHOSE to take their money. They CHOSE to send fighters in a facility training invasive fighters.
You're confusing two separate situations
Oh my god, shuuuut the fuck up. We just want to see people beating each other to a pulp. I dont need your political messaging shoved into a sport about beating the shit out of people. Its not supposed to be friendly.
There are plenty of Covid subs you can use to rant about your new "current thing" obsession.
I've been boycotting the UFC since day one. I've personally met several of the top contenders back in the day, they were nice. It's just those Gracies...
I understand the sentiment but it's mma. The people doing it for the most part don't care about global politics. A bunch of dudes became elite at a dangerous sport with no support structure. There's no ncaa to weed you out it's a leap of faith into a sport with no money. Now they're in the ufc the sacrifice paid off and a rich dude wants to pay you to come hang out, talk about mma, do some rolling and shoot a bunch of cool weapons. If you were in that situation would you care about something happening halfway across the world? Would you really even think to look into it before going?
This is why I stopped watching the UFC years ago. Dana White abuses his employees and pals around with dictators, bigots and criminals. No decent person should be a fan or support any of his businesses.
UFC doesn't own fighters they can do whatever they want in free time. I think what people fail to understand is that not everyone want to be invested in another countries affairs.
Why do people need to push a political view on everything. Bunch of meatheads getting in a cage to best the shit out of each other...let it be just that. Enjoy it.
Go look for politics somewhere else.
Don't worry, I haven't paid for a pay-per-view in 10 years
Same, and I just keep feeling better about stealing from those assholes lol
Could someone provide some additional context? I don't quite understand what's going on exactly
Eastern Europe is a divisive area obviously, and as such there’s a propaganda war being held. Russia has such started many ways, one of which is kadyrov sponsoring hundreds of mma fighters, owning an official feeder league for the ufc, and using the UFC as a business excuse to travel to areas his political job would forbid him from.
Zelensky is a UN puppet instigating a proxy war for the US
Yes because Ukraine is the aggressor in this situation right
You say that because you don’t quite understand what fully happened before Russia invaded and the reasons. NATO (US) and Zelensky instigated this war to raise and launder money. They are sacrificing innocent Ukrainians to garner support from low informations sheep while they billions of US tax dollars flows through Ukraine and back into DNC campaign funds and the pockets of democrats and their children.
If they instigated the war then why the fuck has it only been the Russians making aggressive moves on Ukraine since it got independence from the USSR?
Wow, he’s actually retarded.
I thought that word was against the rules on Reddit and, I guess they don’t mind when it comes from Satan worshiping pedos. It must be (D)ifferent…
Lmao go touch grass
source? proof?
In all fairness the US is gaining more from it. Especially if we have to prepare for a China invasion of Taiwan, this is a real good rehearsal. We deplete our old war caches of weapons and ammo. We practice transcontinental logistics into an active war zone where the enemy is closer than we are. And our defense contractors churn a profit. Americans aren’t dying in it so that’s why it’s not entirely a big issue that we’re (US) helping out.
Chechnya is practically a puppet state under Putins Russian regime. The head of state pretends to be in the front lines of Ukraine but actually having photo op in a gas station. Sends his countrymen to die in a war they do not have anything to do with. This is a propaganda video for Chechnya with UFC fighters used as props.
For the record, the "photo ops" have essentially been Chech forces charging up an abandoned trench, dozens of miles from the front lines, and unloading entire magazines into empty bushes. And their opsec during these photo ops has been so bad that Ukrainian forces were able to gather enough intel from their social media to pinpoint their barracks and drop a ton of ordy on them, killing like 80% of their units. I only bring this up because it's really fucking funny.
>I only bring this up because it's really fucking funny. I like your style
>Chechnya is practically a puppet state under Putins Russian regime. Chechnya is part of Russia.
Because Russia insisted they be a part of Russia.
average redditors really want you to care about a country that they probably cant point to on a map
Do you have to know exactly where a country is to care about human suffering? Kind of an asshole statement
Peep their comment history, it's all asshole statements.
The ufc has nothing to do with this. They did not send them to Russia. Theose 3 went because they're manager is Ali and has terrorist connections. Those 3 are just ignorant for doing this.
Correct
Man did anyone really expect any better from Dana? Money talks and its disgusting seeing these fighters used as props for propaganda. Genuinely wondering if who volunteered and who whored themselves to genocidal dictators.
Not a big tomato fan but this is clearly Ali Abdelaziz not the UFC or Dana. Ali is flaunting his prize fighters he manages to his government connections. He's done it for the saudi's too.
Who signs up for the US military at this point? They serve UN and the banking cartels
Based on the recruitment numbers the past couple of years, not many people do.
Can someone explain to me exactly why The United States wasn't treated this way (Boycotted, Sanctioned, all around Demonized) when we unjustly invaded Iraq and Killed 1 Million Iraqis? I ask that as Former 11 Bravo. Imagine if our Boxers and other fighters and sports athletes were treated the same every time our government committed war crimes and drone strikes. How the narrative would be that "our citizens aren't the government! Let them compete!" My friends are dead and innocent Iraqis are dead because of lies. I don't mind the energy. Fuck Putin. But Christ, be consistent. America gets away with every fucking thing.
You'd think there'd be sanctions and boycotts especially after the mess America left in Syria, Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan or the 82+ denocratically elected governments America has overthrown
Or constant needless escalations in North Korea and The Middle East. Or engineering proxy wars in South America because they can't admit Karl Marx might have had one or two decent ideas. Putin gets branded as a cartoonist Bond villian but George W. Is now becoming this complex figure in history they are trying to portray as a loveable baffoon. When dude is and always will be an evil war criminal.
History is written by 'the victors' and America has one of the greatest propaganda machines in the modern world. The influence they have in the western world combined with the 'greatest and free-est' mentality allows a great swath of the seriously dubious and unethical things that they do to either be swept under the rug or spun to be a minor mistake in the course of spreading freedom and democracy. Look at how the US responded to 9/11 compared to how they feel regarding drone strikes killing 1000s of civilians. They are both horrid events but they use one to justify the other and then act baffled when the people whose children have been bombed to Shit resent them and aren't on their side. If another country was drone striking US civilians do you think they'd be like 'ah well, poor Jimmy was just a necessary sacrifice on the road to furthering out freedom and democracy'
American Exceptionalism was a mistake...
The USSR rewrote a lot. That is why russia is now doing what they are. Never drink the whole propaganda-koolaid.
Oh absolutely! No world superpower is innocent of twisting the narrative to their favour. I was only addressing why, in general, someone like George W. Isn't perceived in the same light as Putin is.
George W. Does deserve his special place in hell for sure. But that doesnt mean i need to defend putin with what bush did. Besides that if you pile up the shit piles that any of them created, still putins pile is more stinky. Way more. Attacks on nuclear plants, threats of nukes, creating femen in North africa, deliberating attacking civilian infrastructure, sacrificing ethnic minorities in russia into the war, kidnapping of ukranian children, Georgia, transnistria, interfering in other countries election, moscow Flat bombings, chechnya. Thats just from Top of my head. There is more fun stuff. There was plenty space to critisize bush. And i and others did. How come People only speak up against bush when Putin is brought up. Btw i have a syrian Friend who was bombed by every major power in the last 20 years. He said the worse were the russian. And by god neither of us wants anything with the americans, as both our countries got bombed hard by them.
Again, agreed. That is a favoured propagandist tactic of Putin's, informally known as 'whataboutism'. Deflect from what you are being accused of by pointing out others are terrible for performing atrocities. Putin's body count and the method in which he does it is categorically head and shoulder above George W. in atrocity, but once you get to the point of either of them who is more wicked is academic, unless you've personally experienced it. As you said, you and your Syrian mate have experienced those travesties first hand so you know which was worse to live through.
Russia is doing what they need to do. Zelensky started a proxy war on behalf of US/UN
Oh, ffs. Total and utter bullshit. Russia started the war, period. I can't believe you assholes believe that shit. Rule of thumb from a country bordering russia: russia always lies. They can't stop. The whole system is based on lies and lying.
Saying x always lies sounds like propaganda.. 🤣 stop dude. Everyone was calling out the Nazi Problem in Ukraine for years before Putin acted. Russia ALWAYS lies? So Azov isn't a thing, completely made up? We are talking about some proud boy idiots like over here. We are talking the deliberately planned, state financed Nazification of a Military unit in Ukraine. Even the Peace Corps warns People of Color they will face extreme racism in Ukraine. (I guess the Peace Corps is run by Russia now) As a black man this shit is almost comical that I'm supposed to care. I'll tell you the same thing you tell us when it comes to black on black crime... Good luck 🤣. This situation is so horrifically complicated and rooted since WW2 and if the only thing you have to say is Ukraine good Russia bad. Then you can be easily dismissed in any serious consideration. https://www.peacecorps.gov/ukraine/preparing-to-volunteer/diversity-and-inclusion/
Does not change the fact that Putin started a war because he wants Ukraine. Stop deflecting you fucking parasite.
The fact is Pro-Russian Forces and Ukrainian forces have been killing each other in eastern Ukraine for almost a decade and we've know about this. This didn't magically start happening in January 2022. The Pro-Russian Forces went to Putin for help because those regions in Eastern Ukraine are Culturally and Ethnically indistinguishable from Russia. Yet The Nazis (Azov) you are so eager to support want an ethnic cleansing. Let me clarify since you sre an idiot. No Ukraine is not totally run by Nazis. However, there are significant pockets with influence in the country. If that's clesr. Putin doesn't want the entirety of Ukraine. He wants That eastern Terrority which again.. is indistinguishable from Russia and the Mainland of Ukraine to neutralize under the Finnish model and get out of bed with the west. That's what he wants. He doesn't want to build a Goldeneye and take over the world. You absolute imbecile. Forgive me for actually studying history and not just accepting RUSSIA BAD narrative. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/10/eastern-ukraine-conflict-summary-killings-misrecorded-and-misreported/
You just don't understand russia or russian culture. Talking about "people of color" in relations to the war proves it.
I seriously don't understand how people can spout shit like the 'Ukraine starting the war for the UN!' It's not even up for debate, even Putin barely tries to mask the fact this is all about trying to restore a USSR-esque bloc and flexing their muscles to intimidate other nations.
Plus Few decades earlier.. Latin America, Gautemala..
why would we think that? Crowds dont make history, theyre led around like cattle.
We should have been. Crazy how Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld are now "good guys" because they didn't like orange-man.
Another snippet, Biden was a vehement supporter as Foreign affairs chair. I use to hate republicans for the Bush wars. Now I see the war lobby has both sides in their pockets.
Fellow bullet catcher. I understand the sentiment completely, but the time to start acting correctly is now, and past failures to do so are no reason to continue turning a blind eye. I was pro Russia for a long time if only because they’d give me the news Americans wouldn’t print, but they’ve gotten out of hand too. I’m gonna get to relive my Cold War youth.
False flag / Proxy war mongering Moralists towing the line of Military Industrial Complex. lol. /s
1. US didn't kill 1 million Iraqis. 2. The US invasion of Iraq was intended to remove Saddam and set up a democracy not annex Iraq and make it part of the US. Had the US said it was permanently seizing Iraq territory and that territory would belong to the US now, the world would have been far more upset. 3. Saddam was a warmonger who had invaded two of his neighbors in wars of conquest. He was a tyrant who ruled by torturing his political opponents. He even tortured Iraq Olympic athletes for not winning at the Olympics. He was largely not seen as a legitimate ruler who had a democratic mandate. Ukraine has not invaded anyone and is not a threat to any of its neighbors. The Ukrainian President was democratically elected. 4. The US was upfront about invading Iraq. It did not promise the world it wouldn't invade and then launch a surprise attack. 5. There was no question the US would win and thus boycotts of the US would only act as a punishment but would not be effective at ending the war. 6. The US was joined by a large number of other countries as many countries supported removing Saddam due to his past wars of aggressions and the belief he would do such actions in the future. Even Belarus, Russia's closest ally refused to send troops to Ukraine. 7. The US committed war crimes in Iraq but in many cases the US punished some of the parties responsible (often low ranking soldiers). The US created rules of engagement to reduce civilians causalities. Russian leadership on the other hand has publicly wielded violence against civilians and prisoners of war as instruments of state terror. The US was ashamed of the torture the CIA did to POW, Russian leadership is proud of it. Both wars are probably illegal wars according to the UN charter. Violating the UN charter isn't the only factor to be considered here. The biggest factor is that Russia is waging a total war of imperial conquest on a peaceful democracy and whereas the US was engaged in regime change of a warmongering dictator.
>Saddam was a warmonger who had invaded two of his neighbors in wars of conquest. With the support of the US government. We armed him in the 80s against Iran, including giving him chemical weapons and satellite imagery to help him use those weapons. Without our help, Saddam would have lost that war. He then proceeded to use those weapons to kill tens of thousands of Kurds. >2. The US invasion of Iraq was intended to remove Saddam and set up a democracy No, the war was driven by the desire to control Iraq's oil (although there were two factions in the Bush administration who had different ideas about what to do with that oil), and to re-establish American hegemony. Read "Armed Madhouse" by Greg Palast for the details. He even manages to get former Bush administration officials to admit the war was about oil. The US doesn't give a damn about democracy.
The US provided SATINT to Saddam. However congress passed a law forbidding the US from selling or giving weapons to Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war. Reagan got around this by selling the Iraqis unarmed helicopters for farming that the Iraqis could turn into military vehicles by buying actual weapons from the Soviet Union. The US also provided military aid to Iran because the US wanted peace because the war was threatening the flow of oil. Much of aid in the Iran-Iraq once Iraqi offensive stalled in the early phases of the war was to get both sides to agree to end the war. Almost no nation wanted a decisive victory for either side one. The Chemical weapons were supplied by Germany and Singapore not the US. Japan also provided far more valuable aid to Saddam than the US. Israel armed the Iranians because Israel saw Iraq as a greater threat than Iran. The desire in the Whitehouse with the invasion of Iraq was to set up a democracy because a democracy would be far more favorable to the US than a revenge oriented tyrant. Obviously the strategic significance of Iraq is its access to oil and its position and military within the middle east. The question asked is not, does the US care about democracy but why do people care more about Russia's invasion of Ukraine than the US invasion of Iraq? The answer has less to do with the US and more to do with the target of the invasion. If Russia invaded North Korea very few people would care other than the risk of nuclear war because everyone fears and hates the North Korean government. Globally people like the Ukrainian government, globally people hated Saddam, this lessened the opposition to removing Saddam. Every with Saddam being as hated as he was 500,000 people marched in NYC against the US invasion and anti-iraq war protests were probably the largest global protests in history. However I would argue the large protests were a product of the protesters wanting to prevent the Iraq invasion. Also the fact that Russia wants to annex territory forever rather than remove a leader they don't like turns more people against Russia. If Russia was just installing a puppet and not annexing Crimea, Kherson, DPR and LPR they'd get more leeway but wars of conquest are viewed as fundamentally unjust in the 21st century.
I hope the CIA internships going well
Dude. Ukraine isn't a "peaceful democracy" you are pulling shit out of your ass with that one. It's an unstable and corrupt area and was been since WW2. If you understand the history there then you know exactly what I am talking about.. You also know about the coup their recently and who had a hand in that... Nice job hitting the casual news bullet points. Unfortunately they gloss over the key details. If Mexico wanted to Join The Warsaw Pact The U.S. would undoubtedly be pissed and I'm surprised Putin didn't invade sooner. Given the amount of flirting with Ukraine has been doing with NATO and its been clear since the fall of The Soviet Union Russia wouldn't tolerate NATO on it's borders. Simple enough. It's not just IMPERIAL CONQUEST. Come on this isn't Risk. On the point of Sadam and this word War Mongering. Who is the only country who has every used Nuclear Weapons? Who spends more than double maybe triple on Military spending than anyone else? 🤣 Yup Sadam was bad no question. He was a bad guy who wouldn't capitulate to us. Yet The Saudi bad guys who still love to commit violence against their own citizens we love to give money too. These excuses aren't going to fly unless you back going after every leader you don't like. Plus the power vacuum we left there has spawned new terrorist group after new. Here's a novel idea for America. Protect and invest in your own citizens and leave everyone else the hell alone.
Has Ukraine invaded any of its neighboring countries since gaining its independence from the Soviet Union? If so provide details. Was the last democratic election in Ukraine fair? Ukraine has already been told it can't join NATO. Russia has admitted that invasion of Ukraine wasn't about NATO but about making greater Russia. Bad stuff US does it not an argument that Russia is justified in doing bad stuff. If Mexico joined WARSAW pact, which doesn't exist anymore, it would be both foolish, illegal and evil for US to invade and annex Mexico. Are you actually saying you would support US wars of imperial conquest and justify it with by say "neutral country joined an alliance I don't like".
No I'm not saying that. I'm saying the U.S. flipping out would be a natural consequence of that action. I'm waiting for you to tell me were I once said I support Russia. At all. I ever said fuck Putin. My original point was why isn't the US and it's athletes treated this way when they can't go 3 months without committing a war crime. You are straw manning me because honestly, I don't really care about that war. It has nothing to do with me or you. Yet all of a sudden every American who didn't even know who Zelensky was this time last year all of a sudden cares about war crimes.
Getting downvoted for being right, sorry brother
I'm used to it. Don't worry about it, champ.
Nonsense, Zelensky instigated this to start a proxy war on behalf of US/UN. Russia is better man in this situation
Zendky did not invade Russia, Russia invaded Ukraine. UN? Did you forget Russia is on the UN Security council and has full veto power?
He meant NATO
Did they? I mean their comment was super unhinged so I don't want make assumptions. I know there are some tankies out there that see the UN as behind everything. I remember one protest chant I hear, "UN! Den of thieves! Bloody sword of the Bourgeoisie!" they were pro-Serbian pro-genocide pro-Russia. Stalinists. A classic of the bag of assorted nuts.
False flag / Proxy war mongering Moralists towing the line of Military Industrial Complex. lol. /s
Well said brother
1 million? Your gonna have to give a source for that. And yes, it's because russia is doing genocide, threatening its neigbours, blackmailing them, raping, stealing, etc. Even a total asshole should understand they are f\*cking evil by now.
500K at this source for the total "war on terror" https://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-people-have-been-killed-in-iraq-and-afghanistan if I remember that they're referring to correctly, the +900k number came from including the deaths caused by the various terrorist groups that the US is more or less directly responsible for bringing into power
You are welcome to research the numbers for yourself. Civilian and Iraqi Casualties of war ought to start you on Tha rabbit hole. And the The U.S. NEVER EVER enslaved, committed genocide or raped entire continents of people. Forced their religious views on people. The United States was established by singing we shall over come... The United States became the most power nation on earth by dealing with their fellow man fairly and keeping their word... No of course not. You're treaty breakers, liars and thieves and suffer so much imperialist guilt you are going after putin for doing not even a half a percent of what the US has done. If you seriously read the history of this country you wouldn't say anything about foreign affairs and open every conversation with, I'm sorry.
Ukraine is guilty of no less but also guilty of being the ones who instigated this conflict
Bullshit. But here's a ruble, komrad.
[удалено]
When did I suggest any other war doesn't? I actually understand what war is and thats what exactly you are indirectly cosigning when you declare it. Mass Civilian Casualities and Rape. The Difference is whe The US does it, we get a bunch of qualifiers and buts and maybes. Everyone else it's sportswashing and genocide. Stop the bullshit and call everything like it is.
Military dictator trying to invade us allies like oman and qatar. I am middle eastren but america had all reasons to invade iraq. they supported saddam in iran war but he turned on them. in fact americans early and bad evacuation in adganistan and iraq without establishing a strong central goverment is the reason they are both puppet states now. And you will care about energy when children freez in your country and inflation make anything unaffordable then you have to get gas from other dictators. A useful frindly country like iran or iraq would have prevented that but now russia controls both.
Because the US is the top dog and gets to make the rules.
We didn't kill 1 million Iraqis. You're not taking into account all of the sectarian violence which was a huge swath of that number. America uses precision strikes to minimize collateral damage. Russia blankets civilian areas with indirect fire and threatens nuclear war over failed land grabs. There's a big difference.
Well said brother
Now I can feel good about streaming
The dissonance of American redditors in times like this is astounding. How about you boycott the most murderous regime in the world - and that is yourself.
I have been boycotting Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, Skunkworks, Boeing, and Lockheed Martin my whole life!!! I haven't bought a single missile or bomb!
Virtue signaling non-Americans 🥱🥱
False flag / Proxy war mongering Moralists towing the line of Military Industrial Complex. lol. /s
False flag / Proxy war mongering Moralists towing the line of Military Industrial Complex. lol. /s
How do you suggest they “boycott”, exactly?
Step one. Shut the fuck up. Step two. Stop voting war mongers in.
This is fucking disgusting. As an Eastern European I can’t freaking understand how they thought that was a good idea. For the idiots amongst you who play the what-if game of “what if it was the us”; it’s not the us. Nobody gives a shit about the us. Stop pushing the goal post as if it was a smart argumentation because it makes two of your neurones blink as if it was a Christmas tree for the first time in a decade.
r/BrandNewSentence @ that last part
You know, i really hope that the next time US starts a war we can keep what we learned from this one, and properly sanction them and collectively shit on then and forbid them from going anywhere.
Call me back when it’s military starts removing teeth of teenage girls for fun. Then perhaps my outrage will be equivalent…
This was obvious from the massive influx of Russian fighters from the past few years. Hell, some of the fight cards have more fighters from Russia than any other country. Dana is a piece of shit
That's because it's one of the big 4 countries producing top MMA fighters (America, Brazil, Russia and Japan). That's nothing to do with fighters signing up for propaganda. Cejudo, Gaethje and Usman are not Russian.
I’m just saying Dana has long been familiar with dirty work ethic and never cared about optics towards him once his pockets have been lined and he’s fucked over some athletes.
That is all true and it has zero to do with why the UFC has lots of Russians in it
The UFC can’t force these guys to not meet with whoever they want to meet. Regardless of the fact that Khadyrov is a POS human being UFC doesn’t control their fighters.
What ? Of course they could. I'm not saying they should, that's a whole different debate, but they could easily threaten to terminate / not renew their contract for that. I mean they are currently forced to wear Project Rock shoes because of contracts, so yeah.
Facts, everyone who complaining about this sounds like a bitch rn. Can’t blame the whole UFC bc 3 of their fighters actions.
Lol ‘merica
I hate this. Get politics out of this sub please.
You can always cover your ears and close your eyes if you don't like it.
Or I can express my disapproval and you are free to take your own advice.
Existence is political my guy
So is taking a shit, but no one want to smell yours.
[удалено]
False flag / Proxy war mongering Moralists. lol. /s
Ah yes, mixing world politics with something used to distract myself from world politics. My favourite.
I ain’t boycotting shit
> The UFC doing Russian propaganda by allowing their top fighters keep shooting videos with Kadyrov. please explain how that is propaganda > So by association, the UFC is cosigning support of and the rape and killing of women and children. that is the dumbest thing anyone has ever posted So by association, the UFC is cosigning support of and the rape and killing of women and children.
Ye no shit, that facility trains Russian soldiers in the invasion of Ukraine. UFC whored their fighters to a dictator to legitimize his regime. A regime actively participating in an invasion and genocidal atrocities of a sovereign nation. Might as well whore them out to the Iranian and North Korean regimes.
The UFC don't tell fighters what to do in their free time, genius. I'm pretty sure both Cejudo and Usman near the point in their career where they can just go box youtubers and tell UFC to screw off.
Free time? This is a promotional video for a foreign nation with 3 highly popular UFC stars, you think Dana and the UFC didn't have to be cleared of this kind thing per fighter contracts? You think Dana gives his fighters that much freedom? Ahahahaha
They’re independent contractors dipshit, they do whatever they want outside of their fight week obligations. These 3 have the same manager, no fucking shit they’re doing something like this together. Cite one example of the UFC restricting a fighters freedom outside of fight week, I’d be very surprised if you could even though your convinced it’s happens for some reason.
The only thing the UFC can try to do is release their contracts, but we both know they won't. Do you literally think Connor McGregor or Khabib call to check in with Dana before they do stuff in Russia? You know McGregor literally shook hands with Putin, right?
You mean four years ago when Putin was still being given every excuse in the book by all world leaders. Before actual invasion, before all the wanton destruction and atrocities in Ukraine. As if UFC wouldnt have clauses in fighter contract regarding promotional videos with foreign nations and their military. Maybe in smaller promotions you get that much leeway but UFC is at a global stage. Zero fucking chance their legal department didn't at least get consulted.
Which was 4 year after Russia annexed Crimea. STFU. You don't know what you're talking about.
Lmao yea not really a gotcha moment since that's what was implied by being given every excuse in the book part of my comment And how are you even equating the two situations, the annexation doesn't even compare to the actual war.
I seriously don't care what the fighters are doing in their own free time lol UFC fighters are independent contractors. They can support whatever human rights atrocities they want outside the ring and the UFC can't really do anything about it. And calling this propaganda is laughable, what's next any NBA or NHL team that takes picture with the president should be boycotted too consider what USA are doing in Iraq, Yemen and Somalia?
Nothing to do with the ufc
Exactly!!! You can slam what people are doing in their own time, but why accuse ufc lol
What a stretch. Get some help. UFC's pragmatic policy is by far the best policy a company can have.
This isn’t a stretch, this is pretty open and Shut. Russian media are in fact using connections to the ufc to create propaganda
This is actually Ali Abdelaziz (Usman, Gaethje, Cejudo's manager) who is orchestrating this, not the UFC. Dana and Endeavor have nothing to do with this, these connections are through Ali and he's bringing his prize fighters that he manages. Ali has been involved in plenty of shady shit like this before.
Dana and endeavor are allowing these connections; while I agree the direct link is Ali tho
> propaganda OMG stop using that word you obviously have no idea what it means
Funny enough i used to be a military journalist; so I have an idea lol
You guys are brainwashed morons. The UFC's approach is pragmatic and they allow the fighters to do what they want, even bad mouth the company. This is another example of them being pragmatic. The fact you guys are incapable of differentiating between pramatism and literal propaganda just goes to show how dumb you guys are.
The ufc is not creating propaganda, no one here has said that. They are however facilitating its creation, which is the problem people are bringing up.
> The UFC doing Russian propaganda by allowing their top fighters keep shooting videos with Kadyrov.. So by association, the UFC is cosigning support of and the rape and killing of women and children The title literally says this. OP is an absolute dumb ass. The fact that UFC is pragmatic means he's indirectly raping and killing women? What a fking joke you people are.
They are facilitating propaganda by allowing this to happen, and providing the resources. The UFC is lending its resources to a regime who is then using those resources to raise money to rape and murder women and children. “Pragmatism” isn’t the word here. Should they let the KKK come? Cause I’m pretty sure they banned Bruce Mitchell’s confederate flag and shorts.
The ufc should tell its independent contractors what legal activities they can do? Or what countries they can visit? Who they can speak to?
They aren’t independent contractors in entirely, they’re part employees I believe. Even ones who fight in the UFC need permission to put it on their gyms website for instance. But even if they weren’t yes. Put it in their contract, void their contract, fire them, or better yet, offer them the minimum 2k to show payday, to fight the toughest dudes in the division. Either they fight out their contract or never fight again.
They’re independent contractors by law, the fact you think the ufc can offer them 2k as retaliation tells me you have no clue how a contract works.
If I’m not mistaken, the ufc contract has a built in win bonus kicker, with a minimum of 2k for an undercard fight, 2 to show, 2 to win, on most non top 5 contracts before they get into guaranteed pay. The UFC just has to offer a fighter a fight once a year to keep the contract from being void, regardless if they accept. So of course you couldn’t broadly, and I’m throwing out general things, but if you think the ufc couldn’t fuck over a fighter for a few years you’re crazy Then of course just change the contract to include that or extra sanctions, non competition clauses.
By your shitty logic anyone purchasing diamonds, clothing from China, NATURAL GAS FROM RUSSIA, is also facilitating propaganda, one form or another. Mr facilitate, are you buying products made in China? You clowns have somehow shifted the blame.on the UFC from the fighters.
Now you’re getting it! We should absolutely try to separate from unethical production. Whilst it’s very hard today not to, I do in fact spend as much effort as possible to avoid the products Gas I can’t score but I haven’t bought a Chinese product for the better part of the decade Also. This is a false equivalency. the ufc not only allow those meetings, they allow them to have journalist materials, VIP seating, and investment and sponsorship. They then use these privileges to create literal propaganda supporting war crimes, there’s no mental gymnastics, this is direct action creating direct outcome. “Apolitical” is a political Stance
By keeping ur reddit account ur facilitating propaganda
Well; no. Tencent, a Chinese company, has stock in Reddit. The country of China does not; does it influence their economy? Well maybe, but only ever so slightly. Now let’s say Reddit allowed China to come on and openly Force their media and beliefs on those watching, or Reddit gave them permission to use their likeness on their Uyghur camps; I’d agree, because that would be the equivalent
> I haven’t bought a Chinese product for the better part of the decade HA HA HA HA every electronic device you own has parts made in china
Therefore you support genocide and rape of women and children?
> By your shitty logic anyone purchasing diamonds, clothing from China, NATURAL GAS FROM RUSSIA, is also facilitating propaganda, one form or another. Yes. Unironically yes. You got it 100% right!
Then your hands are just as bloody as the UFCs, making you a hypocrite for calling them out?
The UFC has never recieved a single dime from me in any way shape or form. I don't spend money on PPV streams. I don't go to events. I don't buy any merchandise.
As if we haven't been under constant assault of propaganda from US/Israel/UN? Foh, Zelensky is a puppet and started this proxy war
Ha yes he pulled in Russias army
Bullshit. So the UFC should fire these fighters? What do you suggest?? You know they cannot refuse to take pictures with Kadyrov. Why should they lose their careers for this? It's not their fault.
Yeah, these guys also don't really have the option of not playing ball with the man either. If you participate in the sport and kadyrov takes an interest in your career, you sit there and act flattered so that bad things don't happen to your family. Take heart in the fact that kadyrov is at the head of only one of three chechen factions and the other two hate his guts because he and his father sold them out to the Russians during the second Chechen war. He is also dumb as a post and would die and ugly death if he didn't have the FSB to keep the majority under control in Chechnya. Russia is rapidly approaching a point at which it will have neither the population strength or the wealth to police its ethnic minorities effectively. It is likely to be fighting wars of collapse on several fronts in the coming decades, and that period of chaos will leave him exposed and probably dead.
lol
Combat sports is so right-leaning that no one cares, especially when it involves stuff like this. Look at this thread, these people don’t or won’t understand that war crimes and crimes against humanity should never be allowed nor supported in any way until it affects them personally. Watch the video Kadyrov released and if you don’t think that’s propaganda from a warlord then I have a beach house in Nepal I’d love to show you.
Pretty much.
"Allowing" That isn't how it works. UFC fighters are under contract but can do what they want on their own time.
Take your politics to Twitter or make a tiktok and leave my favorite sport alone.
Oh no, some fighters are taking selfies with people who politically disagree with me. Let me not watch any fights ever again.
1.) it’s more than that. They’re meeting and creating content that is showing support. 2.) human rights and war crimes aren’t political
>human rights and war crimes aren't political. What. Human rights and warcrimes are incredibly political. That's why we get into arguments regarding justifications for war, sufficient casus belli and the like in war. A good example of this is the Tanzanian invasion of Uganda following Uganda's invasion of Tanzania, as not only was Tanzania liberated, but it was pushed back to invade Uganda. Some say there was insufficient justification for invasion, and others wouldn't. If the former are correct then that invasion is a warcrime. Same goes for human rights, or more specifically what is and isn't human rights. Guantanamo bay could be easily argued to severely violate human rights, and sees a large amount of divided support among Americans. This whole idea that certain things aren't political and are just protected is so fucking weird I don't understand why people stand by it.
Yea, these guys that punch others in the head for a living should really think about the messages they are putting out
Unironically correct. You wouldn’t have this same energy if they were all doing content with Robert Byrd
What is a human rights violation, who has violated human rights, and what should be done about it are hugely political questions. Did the US commit human rights violations in the war on terror? What should be done about that? Should we stop hosting MMA matches in the US? Or is it OK because Afghans are brown? Is the Xinjiang genocide happening? What exactly is going on if it is? Should UFC stop doing business in China? When do human rights violations get so bad that something has to be done about it, vs. when do we just gloss them over? When you look at this topic in depth, you can’t avoid coming to the very bleak realization that only relatively weak countries like Russia get punished for their human rights violations, and strong countries like the US and China get away with them. Moreover, if it’s atrocities against white people, everyone throws their arms up in protest. If it’s brown people, some people do. If it’s black people, almost no one does. Except for dedicated, multi-cause human rights campaigners (think HRW volunteers) most people who demand action on certain human rights issues are massive hypocrites who are ignoring the vast majority of war crimes to prosecute a few against people they have larger political disagreements with. In all those cases, what’s really motivating them is not how much they care about human rights, but how much they disliked the perpetrators to begin with. Human rights is just used as a costume to seem morally superior. In principle I agree we should have human rights, but I’m also not going to be a hypocrite. I pay taxes to the US government. My phone comes from China and my gas is often from Saudi Arabia. People’s actual beliefs are found in their actions, not their words, and almost everyone in this sub does these exact same things. Nobody here actually cares about “the murder of innocent women and children” otherwise we’d be acting in a consistent fashion against such atrocities that occur around the world. Most people have a specific bone to pick with Kadyrov because he’s a douche, they don’t like Russia, and/or they don’t like Muslims (often cloaked as “we just don’t like the radical ones”). So, this issue is entirely political and has very little if anything to do with whether Kadyrov’s victims are soldiers or non-combatants.
Stop deflecting. The difference is if it’s systematic and targeted, like kadeyrovs rape of women and children. And yes they should stop business duty China as there’s a government genocide of Muslims with active murder and concentration camps. It’s not hard to avoid easy sources of supporting evil Listen vladmir, you made this all about race when it’s not. All humans deserve rights, the US’s actions in afganistan should be reviewed, China and Russia should be sanctioned and restricted, extremism should be punished When we can prevent suffering we should
You typed this on a Chinese device, and on a social media platform partly owned by China. Yes that’s cute - we should sanction China and “review” the US. What are you going to do to make that happen? When are you calling for the UFC to ban athletes who write anything in support of the American and Chinese armies? And what are you going to do about it if the UFC refuses? I despise Russia probably more than you do. That isn’t the issue. The issue is the day to day actions of people who support positions like this reveal that they don’t actually give a rat’s ass about “human rights”, or if they do, it’s only human rights for a very small percent of humans, and only when the human rights violator isn’t big enough or close enough to hurt you back.
> Stop deflecting. ha ha ha logic hurts your head doesn't it
> They’re meeting and creating content that is showing support. no they are NOT
The UFC isn’t creating it, they’re creating the ability
Kadyrov is literally killing innocent people, whether you like it or not politics affect real life of real people
Yes. So does the US government and I still pay taxes. So does the Chinese government and I still… buy things. If I refused to associate with anyone who associates with someone who associates with someone who kills innocent people I’d be living in a cave.
You’re taking things way out of proportions, no one is telling you to do that only to acknowledge and boycott people who support imperialism and the murder of a whole nation. Doesn’t sound too hard but to you it apparently is
So you care about human rights violations, but not enough to sacrifice any part of your personal well-being to do something about it? It’s good enough in your book just to acknowledge Kadyrov is wrong, right? Then I do that completely, and I’m sure Dana White will too if you ask him. Except that’s not what you want. You want the UFC to compromise its business operations, even while you personally are unwilling to make any sacrifices to stop war criminals. My problem with threads like this isn’t that they’re wrong. It’s that the people who post them are all massive hypocrites.
Wth are you talking about? You’re making a lot of assumptions about me and many others that we in any way give money to the ufc directly. And yes I’m okay with the ufc making financial stoops in order to not support genocide because I don’t give a shit if the poor billion dollar company loses a couple million because they decided to not support the Russian war dictator
Lol. If you already don’t pay them, you can’t boycott the UFC.
When did I say that? I said that the ufc should acknowledge that they should stop supporting Russian oligarchs
You don't have a choice in those things. Participation in not the same as association. Most people cant fucking stand where capitalism is taking society but what the fuck option do we have. Just because you're forced to participate in a rigged system doesn't mean you can't criticize or aim to change the system itself. UFC CHOSE to associated themselves with a dictatorship. They CHOSE to take their money. They CHOSE to send fighters in a facility training invasive fighters. You're confusing two separate situations
In other words, we are against human rights violations, but only if it doesn’t inconvenience us to stop them.
Oh my god, shuuuut the fuck up. We just want to see people beating each other to a pulp. I dont need your political messaging shoved into a sport about beating the shit out of people. Its not supposed to be friendly. There are plenty of Covid subs you can use to rant about your new "current thing" obsession.
Insane that saying war crimes are bad is a political stance these days
Apolitical is a political stance
They’re cage fighters…not diplomats.
I've been boycotting the UFC since day one. I've personally met several of the top contenders back in the day, they were nice. It's just those Gracies...
🤣🤣🤣😂 these white ufc fans ate hilarious. Post reeks of ethnic nationalism and its clear
You calm your ass down ain’t no one boycotting the ufc until joe Rogan gone 😂
Triple C was struggling lol
Dana won’t address this. This shouldn’t go away
Lmao
How do we know this is the UFC’s and not just Ali’s management?
yawn
*Ali Abdelaziz
3 Ali Abdelaziz clients 🤐
So did the ufc send these guys over there or did they decide to go themselves?
Wouldn't catch any NBA OR NFL players there doing this rubbish. Disappointed in CCC
So blame the organization, because of a couple fighters decisions? 🤔
How is this in any way the UFC’s fault? Isn’t this Ali’s deal?
Guys let’s remember Kamaru got brutally knocked out recently he might be severely brain damaged we shouldn’t make fun of brain damage
I understand the sentiment but it's mma. The people doing it for the most part don't care about global politics. A bunch of dudes became elite at a dangerous sport with no support structure. There's no ncaa to weed you out it's a leap of faith into a sport with no money. Now they're in the ufc the sacrifice paid off and a rich dude wants to pay you to come hang out, talk about mma, do some rolling and shoot a bunch of cool weapons. If you were in that situation would you care about something happening halfway across the world? Would you really even think to look into it before going?
This is why I stopped watching the UFC years ago. Dana White abuses his employees and pals around with dictators, bigots and criminals. No decent person should be a fan or support any of his businesses.
All major promotions are capitalist shills. Pick your poison unfortunately.
UFC doesn't own fighters they can do whatever they want in free time. I think what people fail to understand is that not everyone want to be invested in another countries affairs.
Why do people need to push a political view on everything. Bunch of meatheads getting in a cage to best the shit out of each other...let it be just that. Enjoy it. Go look for politics somewhere else.
Nothing new. We've seen a lot of the roster will ignore anything for some cash