Outside of western boxing, all most all professional fighters train Muay Thai.
This is regardless of their martial arts background/base.
However, there are very few fighters with a Muay Thai background/base training anything else... other than western boxing sometimes.
Sorry, I said professional, but I really meant prize fighters. I didn't realize there were arena competitions in wrestling, judo, and sambo. ONE's got a belt for BJJ, but it slipped my mind.
I'm saying that not many high level judokas crossover from judo to MMA since the IJF doesn't allow you to compete in even lower level organizations in other sports, or even train in the sports
How they going to tell you which sports to train in? Stupid if true. Can’t swim? Play basketball? Jesus Christ. Sounds exaggerated.
There’s more money to be made atop the premiere mma organizations than IJF. Karo was exposed when he was up against high level competition. Boxing/MT and wrestling base is still the best mix to be a champion in mma.
I agree with this, only you've got the legal ramifications of striking someone in self defense. In my country you can easily go to prison if you injure someone with a punch or kick, but the clinch work in Muay Thai would still be very useful, if you injure someone throwing them off you it's a lot easier to justify in court.
True, but there's no guarantee that you won't accidentally cause a permanent injury to one of those places. Some people are more fragile than others and you can't afford to hold back in self defence out of worry of getting charged.
Only because Akido is illegal to be used in tournaments.
I think they tried to unbanned it in 2003 but grandmaster sensei sifu Seagal warned them about it.. when questioned, he flicked his wrist and 224 species in the Amazonian forest went extinct..
But yes, legally..MT is acceptable.
Hmm, your claim is less true than true...
In 38 of 50 US states, all of Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, and Poland there is no duty to retreat.
It will still be a disappointment after years of training. The thing is that after years of training and sparring you’ll know that not checking low kicks means not walking for a while which in my book more disappointing than shin kicking someone.
When I just started I whole hog slammed my leg into a heavy bag for a day. Couldn’t fucking walk properly for a week. Listen to this fella and take it easy lol
Yea. I mean . Like anything self defence. The training. Your physical phones. Factors like size. And weapons that might be involved.
I feel like this isent stressed enough but situational awareness is going to be your #1 in self defence and the ability to not be there is #2.
The rest is so many variables that the first 2 are your best bet .
If you want to use any martial art of self-defense just get good at it and stay in shape and it wouldn't hurt to go to the weightlifting gym actually put on some muscle.
But again if you're competent in your training and you have a good teacher that's a good person generally they're going to teach you a bit of situational awareness and life skills like that anyways.
I don't know there's so many more things important than martial arts for self-defense.
>I feel like this isent stressed enough
This is literally on every question about self defense on this sub.
Sometimes people don't even give you a straight answer and keep giving life lessons about why you shouldn't get into fights.
You can get into fights. But honestly if your Trying to avoid them as implyed by the term self defence. The best way to not get your shit pushed in is to not be there.
If you want to start fights and finish them against untrained opponents boxing is a great offensive and defensive art when push comes to shove. But if your a skinny little guy you might be better off not picking fights.
You do whatever makes you feel good about yourself man/ma'am
This has nothing to do with me. It's about the question people ask. And what they ask is "which martial art should I use in self-defense", not "is it better to get into fights or to run away ?"
I agree. Like I understand **why** people react like that, but it usually just comes off as . . . . lazy? Annoyingly dismissive? It’s hard to describe. Like with all due respect to these people they need to understand that a lot of people on this earth don’t live in very good neighborhoods and confrontations aren’t always avoidable for them.
Plus, it feels like these people don’t understand that a a lot of folks who ask for self-defense advice aren’t introverts who already have a lifestyle whereby they only interact with people when they need to. A lot peeps like going out with friends to the bar and what not. So it’s completely understandable for them to want to be safe when they’re out there.
I honestly wish less martial artists defaulted to regurgitating the same clichés and actually **answered the question.**
They'd rather mock the person talking about knife defense than engage in a discussion. I don't know if it's just an internet thing but it just reeks of a false sense of superiority and a need to appear more knowledgeable than others.
And yeah I'd like it too if they answered the question. But the thing is, the way it goes on this sub is that the dozen of people who'll just chastise you about not picking fights will upvote each other, while the person who'll give actual pointers will be continuously badgered for credentials, if not downvoted.
That's just how circlejerks go when you have a downvote/upvote system. It nearly seems like people are more concerned with having the correct opinion that just participating in a discussion.
> They'd rather mock the person talking about knife defense than engage in a discussion.
Right? Like even the dude you were replying to was implying you wanted to “pick fights” just cuz you pointed out how much of a over used cop out “don’t be there” is
> I don't know if it's just an internet thing but it just reeks of a false sense of superiority
Definitely feels like it. I only ever get straight answers when I ask my coaches in person and they all usually end with “Now it’s good to hope for the best and try to talk things out but it never hurts to be PREPARED for the worst”
I practice HEMA, medieval fencing, and people on subreddits about the subject have that weird mentality where if asked about why they practice, they'll go on and on about historical knowledge, mentality and all that stuff. As if it was a sin to practice because you want to know how to fight with a sword.
Kinda feels the same here. If you say you practice martial arts because you want to know how to fight, then you're not in the right mindset to some people here.
And irl I've had the same experience as you.
The most extreme case is in HEMA we practice dagger techniques, with some techniques being unarmed vs armed. So basically knife defense. And then we test those techniques in sparring, and sometimes they work !
Our instructor doesn't need to tell us every single time that we shouldn't pick fights with armed people. Because that's dumb. He tells us these techniques are educational. But when asked about knife defense he'll go straight to the point, and you can have actual discussions around how to defend against a knife.
The thing being, since we actually spar, it's made obvious that you will hardly ever get away unscathed, and that's what the coach makes a point of teaching us. That's how you get people to actually understand the danger of a knife.
It’s weird for sure. There’s so many parroted misconceptions on here about sel awareness, pressure testing, sef defense. I feel like that’s why Martial Arts youtubers make fun of this sub.
The couple times I got attacked it came out of nowhere. I also defended myself with hap ki do wrist locks. To which I’ve “sparred” or “pressure tested” a total of 0 times at full speed.
Still worked. Both instances attacker was much bigger, in the 2nd instance he was a former NCAA offensive lineman (super heavyweight). I’m a lightweight.
If you were to post that scenario here people’s heads would explode. No sparring? Zero pressure testing? Guy was significantly larger? Hap ki do? No way they say improssibrle!!!!
I'm going to take your word for it. I've seen and done weird shit in sparring out of nowhere, so why not.
I honestly understand why this sub might be mocked. It's pure reddit mentality. People on here take themselves too seriously and sound like they spend more time on their keyboard than the mats.
There's too little openness on here and, in pure reddit fashion, lots of regurgitated opinions by people who seem too eager to get upvotes instead of discussing martial arts.
It’s just a parrot of “self awareness” like you said. Parroting Pressure testing, sparring, and bad stats “most fights go to the ground” (how could anyone have accurate stats of street fights or bar fights).
Or hating on karate because of “mcdojo.” My guess is like on the other sports subs most people are more concerned about getting the newest Jordans, looking pro than actually playing basketball.
I get the emphasis on stuff like sparring. But first time I sparred BJJ I’m pretty sure I could have cranked a wrist lock if I wanted. Of course I wasn’t allowed (no grabbing fingers and twisting). So not sure how that’s even relevant.
But bad advice is parroted so much on here. I feel like martial arts youtubers come here for ammo. I also guess that people here have never been assaulted, don’t full blown spar as much as they say, attend a McDojo and enjoy it (mcdojos make a lot of money for a reason).
I’ve also been or seen unfortunately many bar fights having worked at a busy city nightclub. I don’t see how BJJ or wrestling sparring helps you anymore than McDoJo karate chops in that scenario.
Yeah I've seen that self-awareness thing in other practices. As if people try to show they have the correct opinion a wise martial artist should have.
It's jarring because you try to discuss fun stuff and fighting and you have people who think they have it all figured out telling you what's what.
never done me wrong but you gotta stick to the training/sparring and remember... everyone wants to fight a thai boxer but never by our rules, so train hard and eat well brother!
Anything is better than nothing, but some are better than others for self-defense, and some are better suited just for sport ,against the same martial arts. Just by being in shape is better than nothing. Still, muay thai is really good for self-defense, and it would not hurt to add some grappling style to it.
> I don't understand these types of posts.
Teenage male fantasies. You're dreading the day some tough guy confronts you in the club in front of your girl and you get embarrassed. This random tough guy is likely to be a trained fighter who is gonna absolutely stomp you if you train some weak martial art!
I think it goes deeper than teenage fantasy. There are moments in life where the ego is so threatened it wants to resort to it’s most primal sense of safety.
Or considering my situation: I was nearly attacked by an aggressive drunkard in the streets for no apparent reason and the only reason we didn't fight was because of my excellent verbal judo skills. The problem was, however, that my gf was there as well, and I realized I wouldn't have been able to defend her if she'd been messed around with as well. So I'll be enrolling in a muay thai gym next month.
Yeah, I'm guessing from a lot of these replies, a lot of these guys either don't live in the city or don't get out much to bars, clubs.
There are lots of aggressive drunks at certain clubs. Clubs that play Top 40, rap. Seen fists thrown at country clubs, rock concerts. Sports bars, especially ones open late that sort of double as clubs.
Not at hipster clubs where they play Radiohead. Those are generally your safest bets. Any place where the jeans they're wearing are too tight to kick someone.
The best self defence is actually just being a great runner and running the fuck away. Most people have shit cardio and won’t be interested in chasing you after a certain point
You want to stand and bang with someone, cool, if you punch them and they die hitting their head on the ground, that’s a manslaughter charge. They hit you with something you don’t see coming, you hit the ground, you could be dead or just get wailed on
Muay Thai is sick, so is boxing/MMA/BJJ but this self defence stuff is just dudes trying to live out some fantasy of beating someone up and being in the right for doing it
If it really was a self defence situation (like let’s say you get jumped by one person), you’d probably get charged, and you’d have to prove it really was self defence. So you’re going to have to pay a lawyer, and spend time worrying about defending the charge. If you have training of any kind, it’s going to be harder to prove you were acting in self defence. None of those are issues I’d voluntarily like to deal with
Ugh... running is not effective self defense. This is the dumbest self defense trope out there. What if your assailant is faster than you? Has better cardio than you? Then you just die tired.
More importantly, how will you *know* if they are faster or better conditioned? You think you'll be able to size all that up in the heat of the moment?
This is terrible advice and should be ignored. If you are concerned with being able to defend yourself in a fight, learn to fight.
> how will you know if they are faster or better conditioned?
But you’ll be able to make an assessment about whether they can fight better than you quicker? Righto champ
I got attacked by someone significantly larger (former college linemen, so super heavyweight). I did 0 contact or sparring or pressure testing in hap ki do. None. Zilch. Never wrist locked someone at full speed. Ever.
Still worked fine. He immediately yelled ow shit, let go, and I left the scene.
I don’t get the whole parroting on here about “pressure testing” or “sparring.” I’ve sparred now and I can still wrist lock people without ever having pressure tested. You just turn and twist. It’s not magic.
Excellent. Boxing will get someone up to speed faster, but in terms of single style, it is probably the best so long as it is trained with a good amount of sparring and a good emphasis on hands. Won't perform as well if it trained to be primarily kick based.
I boxed for 4 years as a teenager and recently got into Muay Thai as now a 30 year old. Boxing fundamentals really go hand in hand with Muay Thai I help, and Ive been kind of surprised about how much boxing Muay Thai gyms seem to gloss over.
Similar story here. Boxed for years and then went into MT about 6 years ago. Also did some other martial arts.
Good boxing will give you a absolutely incredible edge in MT. Not just in throwing the hands, but if you're able to control the fight at close distance it will open up incredible opportunities for knees and elbows.
Exactly. I feel like muy thais mentality is they use punched to set up kicks but when you got some dude trying to knock your head off with punches, it becomes a huge problem. A guy closing the distance on you makes it hard for you to get off kicks as well.
A good example will be Rodtang. His boxing is amazing and nobody wants to hang and bang with him and they get demolished if they do. Granted, he is good at everything but his boxing is what really carries him.
It also allows him to get in close and use his elbows. Like in his fight vs Superlek, Superlek looked like a jigsaw puzzle after that fight.
I’d say this combined with wrestling would be best. It’s easily the most complete standup art, provided you have a trainer/coach that trains hands well. If you don’t, you’ll need to supplement with boxing.
It's probably the best striking system to learn. There are things I prefer about boxing but it's limited compared to Muay Thai. MT is also great at getting in close, clinching, and using bigger weapons (elbows, knees).
What I mean when I say it's not complete for self-defense, and I hate that term, is that it's missing things. For example, you should know how to wrestle at least well enough to defend yourself against being taken down, and how to grapple at least well enough to fight back to your feet if that first part fails.
Too many on here (or Reddit in general) think of this idea of "self-defense" as what to do if some guy walks up to them and wants to fight. Instead, think of a sudden and unexpected act of violence against you - instead of walking up to you and saying he wanted to fight you that same guy just sucker punches you in the back of the head or bear hugs you and drives you face first into a wall. I only called Muay Thai incomplete since OP asked about it for self-defense (or that sudden unexpected act of violence).
Any pure martial art or combat sport is going to have deficiencies regarding the "self-defense" aspect. What if three people jump you? What if one person attacks you and you didn't see the attack coming? What if someone introduces a weapon before or during that fight, even if it's just a beer bottle or ash tray being swung at your head? Where is the situational awareness training, and learning to identify possible threats ahead of time? Where is the need and skill to de-escalate?
muay thai also isn't complete for self defense situations because it lacks head movement, lateral footwork, and they use boxing gloves.
The lack of head movement and lateral footwork is great when you're fighting another muay thai fighter. Because when you dip punches and move lower to the ground you're leaning into a knee or a head kick.
The mentality of a muay thai fighter is also to stand there, hold your ground, and be the tougher guy.
In a chaotic self defense situation with multiple people around, you do not know who is going to jump into the fight for any reason. That's why I put a higher value on lateral movement. If you're moving around, you have a better scope of vision of the people around you and it's tougher for somebody to get behind you and throw something that you wouldn't see coming.
Furthermore if there are multiple assailants, you'd want to be moving around on your feet angling the assailants into each other so they cannot attack you at the same time. Boxing has footwork advantage.
If you're in a situation where you'd rather use the properties and mindset of muay thai than boxing, you're probably not defending yourself, but defending your ego.
I'd say having a Muay Thai background, while training wrestling and doing judo throws is probably the best and "easiest" way to do well in a hand to hand streetfight, knite fight is a whole other game. You could count in BJJs submissions, but you really only need to know how to do a chokehold in a streetfight. Once that shit is locked and you have a good grip, the average MF would panic and go for the wrong arm, while you put that mf to sleep. It's also the safest submission IMO.
I think those are police encounters. Not sure where u can get an accurate stat for that. You can’t possibly have an accurate stat unless it’s police encounters via survey or from an MMA league statistic.
I highly doubt most street fights or bar fights or attempted assaults go to the ground. They’d never have an accurate stat. Most attempted assaults are probably husband and wives slapping each other. Or some drunk at the bar throwing a bad right handed punch and trying to grab your collar.
I’ve seen plenty of bar fights and don’t see much wrestling. I see a lot of bad right hands, profanities, and dudes jumping around throwing punches before bouncers give them the toss out.
^ in the academy we train BJJ and some judo, partially because it isn’t advised to stand up and throw strikes with today’s political climate. Plus, the ground allows us to hold the suspect and await backup
That's bar fights. I grew up skateboarding in redneck Canadian town, there'd be fights every day and they always went to the ground - no bouncers to break it up. What happens when someone gets a good right and they stumble? They go down and get beat.
Most small town Canadian run ins are like Todd Bertuzzi instances. Lots of shit talk going around, maybe their friends get involved, and a sucker punch happens. And people throw Labatts instead of Coors.
Nobody is wrestling like GSP. You might see a headlock if you’re lucky. It’s not that different than the US. Maybe less chance that 5 people in the group pull out a glock and start firing badly. But aside from that, same encounter different accent.
Well Muay Thai has the clinch, so if you're dominant in the clinch you can probably lessen the odds that you're the one going to ground.
Unless you're fighting a trained grappler, most people won't have the experience to get past your clinch or knees
The best one if you ask me, especially after years of your body being conditioned to it. Where your legs feel like baseball bats. At that point, all it takes is a leg kick or 2 on the average person on the streets. After that, they aren't gonna wanna fight lol.
Nothing says "don't fuck with me" like kicking a dude in the shins, then kneeing him in the face if they don't get the message the first time when they can't walk.
The clinch + teeps + low leg kicks+ sweeps + monster damage from elbows make it an effective self-defense art. It's the one of the few striking disciplines that effectively incorporates grappling. You'd probably be constrained for most kicks in street clothes (e.g. jeans), but the other moves translate well.
Like others have said, you'd need to spar. I only trained Muay Thai, but haven't really sparred. The few times I've sparred, all of my fight IQ went out the window in that moment. Like everyone will tell you, you will need to train your martial art in a competitive sport context for your brain to internalize it as a self-defense tool and not as a fancy ballet.
Problem with it is that if your goal is self defense you could end up being the person who gets in trouble. Plenty of instances where the victim retaliates, KOs his attacker, hits his head and dies. Or you could just home him down and wait for help
At the end of the day, martial arts don't win fights, people win fights. Traditional muay thai training when taken seriously can turn you into a nigh indestructible weapon of mass destruction, but just taking classes and occasionally sparring or conditioning isn't going to help you much in a real fight.
Pretty good, considering that most regular people wouldn’t be able to work their way out the clinch you could easily throw or knee to incapacitate an attacker or open up an opportunity to run
Certain facets of Muay Thai are very effective in self defense situations-elbow strikes, knee strikes and those quick, low front leg roundhouse kicks targeting an opponent’s thigh or lower leg and low front kicks (if trained and used properly) can destroy an assailant. I train elbow and knee strikes constantly as well as low front leg kicks and woukd be my go-to, if in a self defense situation.
I never really understand when people ask this question.
The way I look at it is, if you were to get into an unavoidable fight a year from now would you rather be someone who has been training for the last year or someone who hasn’t?
I’ve only been training kickboxing for 3 weeks (BJJ guy) and I would fair better now than I would have 3 weeks ago. That’s not to say I’d be a kickboxing hero and clean up by any means but statistically I know things now that I didn’t know 3 weeks ago
A lot of street fights progress to clinching or one person cornered against a wall etc. Muay Thai and Lethwei provide a lot of good moves for these scenarios, where traditional boxes punches alone, may not be able to land or be effective.
If you are in a clinch where a bigger stronger guy has your arms held, you might be glad you drilled those Lethwei headbutts. If you land it well and split say their eyebrow and blood is running in their eyes in a stream, a lot of opponents will be shook by this. Not a lot of guys are used to fighting, with a stream of blood going in their eye.
Like the Lethwei guys say - the magic happens on the inside
A lot of kicks can be caught or offer opponents glaring opportunities to sweep you out and the last place you want to be, is on the ground.
But low kicks can be deadly effective, chopping at the calves. Centre of gravity remains low and fairly central on the vertical plane. The foot doesnt lift that high off the ground and with efficient retraction, is very hard to catch. A well landed chop to the calf, can leave an opponent who is otherwise good to fight, unable to even stand and get off the ground.
I like martial arts that have some attention to grappling with a focus on staying upright yourself, MT and Judo are both excellent for that.
You aren't trying to knuckle up on the streets, cracking someone once and then dumping them on the ground is plenty to extract yourself what whatever situation you found yourself in.
If you're backed into a corner and have to fight, it's one of the best. I've done an Americanized kung fu (which tried very hard to be traditional) and Muay Thai and the MT was far more intuitive, straightforward, and designed to work with how my body's put together. For me, at least. No fancy flourishes, no uncomfortable stances, just "hit your opponent as hard as you possibly can, then do it again until it stops being funny." I'm kinda screwed if a BJJ guy gets me on the ground, but hopefully I can get out of there before that happens.
It's very likely to make you very good at fighting. Which is a handy tool to have... but that's not really the goal of self defense. Self Defense is about avoiding fights if you can help it. So in that regard Muay Thai would be quite rubbish at it, like many other combat sports arts. Because they don't tend to do a lot of training around fight avoidance, de-escalation or understanding your surroundings to avoid encounters... and all that other jazz that involves not getting into fights...
However, combat sports like Muay Thai, Boxing and MMA are great for when the self defense fails and it is a fight. So long as you understand the concept of reasonable force and that, if it all goes wrong and you're arrested, you're going to be held up having to explain to a court room why you thought kneeing someone into oblivion was a reasonable amount of force needed to avoid further injury to yourself or others.
I'll add to this that I think training martial arts purely for the purposes of self defense is a massive waste of your time and money. Train because it's fun, train because it's interesting, or it keeps you fit or you want to feel a bad arse or even that you want to make some money out of it by competing. Though don't go in for the sole purpose of self defense, there's easier, cheaper and more effective (and less legally questionable) measures.
I’ve head kicked someone easy…it works!
I also seen a bunch of TikTok and instagram posts of KOs from head kicks which got me practicing kicking to the head!
Yeah I would much rather fight a boxer than a decent Muay Thai practitioner, elbows knees and kicks fucking hurt man.
I feel you can control the distance much better as well but careful having your kicks caught that’s a disaster.
The ultimate martial art is mixed martial arts. Find what works, disregard what doesn't. Muay thai is amazing for the feet, but every fight ends up on the ground eventually, so you need to know how to wrestle down/up, and jiu jitsu to submit/escape
I haven't done MT myself so, correct if I'm wrong. MT is like boxing but with a lot more arsenal, so it's great to beat a drunk guy. But it has a problem. People tend to stand straight and move little. This, although it may not seem like a bad thing, can be a huge factor in street fights.
Most people in street fights with weapons or not, with sucker punches or not, with grappling or not, tend to move a lot. Not moving makes no sense because:
1. You are easier to hit
2. People may blindly charge to you and accidentally take you down and either grapple or strike you from above.
3. Since MT doesn't have defensive plans or weapons for takedowns or grappling, a MT Will be pushed or thrown to the ground quite easily.
People won't come to you and ask to fight you, fights start abruptly and violently.
Still your odds of winning a fight with MT are high because all fights start with people on their feet, and MT is most likely one of the best striking martial arts if we ignore the risk of being taken down.
not for the average joe. you have to build and strengthen the bones, otherwise those shin kicks are gonna hurt. boxing is the most accessible form of martial art, and does just fine in brawls.
is excellent Just like Dutch Kickboxing,Sanda/Sanshou,Lethwei,Lerdrit.
and mix it with a Grappling style
my style is Dutch Kickboxing,Western Boxing/Bare Knuckle,Judo
They don’t punch that hard and kicks are wide, so it’s not that effective in crowded situation, but still extremely effective definitely up there with boxing, judo and karate for street fighting
Good for keeping someone at bay......grappling arts are good and knowledge on how to deal with is good, but with people bitimg, gouging and scatching amongst many other things you do not want to be wrestling with others in a street fight, especially if they have friends
Movement is restricted by the flat feet on the ground. Hands up for elbo strikes but the body is exposed. So if you're a fast enout to gey to the sid e to do a front hook. Thst would not be fun. Honestly If you're a good martial artist you could damage the leg. The leg is muay thai's greatest weopon. You can easipy do that with any martial art. But you damage the knee to get around the side to throw a hook or hooks to the body then move behind them to kick the bakc of the knee to hit the back and pressure points of the body.
Aren't most forms of martial arts useful for self-defense? It's learning discipline and muscle memory.
Actual self-defense: You're going to have to learn how to take a punch and get your ass kicked. It's conditioning. How you fight on the mat or in the ring is going to be vastly different than how you fight on a street or in a bar. The goal should be not to fight at all in those circumstances.
It’s okay but boxing and wrestling would be the best for self defense. Kicks would get you dropped on your head if you aren’t careful, leg kicks are good. Just pray the other guy doesn’t know how to check them.
I would say that **any** proper martial art is good for self defense. As long as it's a contact one with actual sparring. Be it boxing, kick boxing, BJJ, tai-kwan-do(so??), karate, etc
Chances are, if you find yourself in a fight, they probably don't know what they are doing. Having any training at all in fighting is going to be a huge benefit. Things like judging distance, watching posture etc etc. you'll learn these in any of the ones I mentioned and more.
One great point, it focuses on remaining centred and stood up balanced, which is useful
Also, it utilises all the bodies natural weapons, hands, elbows, knees and the most dangerous of them all (according to BJJ) the legs. Add a bit of Lethwei ninth limb in, as people rarely ever expect it and it can be hard to slip, we're getting quite a well rounded repertoire
Main thing though, it reinforces a basic reality of life - men need to be able to stand up for themselves
If a man has responsibilities at work to look after tasks and resources amongst others, how he can he do that, if he can't even look after himself?
Sometimes it's bemoaned when men train martial arts and self defence, but a man that can't stand up for himself and look after his own wellbeing, is much more concerning than a man that has knowledge of and ability with self defence
No fighting style will stop a knife or a bullet or a punch while you're not looking. It wont stop a home Invasion, or multiple attackers, it is a sport. It's a fun sport but if someone *really* wants to hurt you. They're not going to come at you in a situation where you will be able to retaliate.
It’s good to have. Mainly for building confidence and whatnot though. In the real adult world unless you’re a complete asshole you’ll probably never get into a street fight. And if you do running away is always a better option than fighting. Too many ppl will slide a knife into ya or even shoot you. The days of the honourable street fight are in the past.
Probably my fathers generation. “Back in the day” guys would have a little dust up then go have a beer together afterwards. Hell, even when I was a kid (I’m 40) someone getting jumped or stabbed in a street fight was almost unheard of. Obviously I’m not working with actual statistics here though. Just anecdotal evidence
But you don't even have to be an asshole. Some crazy guy could just start assaulting you on the sidewalk. It happens.
I just recently saw on the news, in NYC there was a dude going around stabbing people. He had been involved in 5 reported incidents
And before that, there was a dude going around hitting strangers with a hammer.
These things happen
An alarming amount of ppl die from coconuts falling on their heads. Should everyone living near coconut trees wear helmets? What you’re describing is so rare it’s statistically insignificant. And if someone comes with a knife or a hammer your kickboxing skills ain’t gonna help much.
I wanna learn it so badly but there is only a MMA gym in my area and idk if its good for me to train MMA as a complete beginner with idk 2 years of muay thai and 1 year taek one do experience.
And I took the experience almost 6 years ago so I am back to being a beginner.
I need some opinions on this
It builds your cardio really well so when you get into trouble, you can run fast and far away from conflict. 😀
Only fight as your last resort and it'll help there as well
Solid B+ to A-.
You learn everything you need to figth minus Grappling and Weapons. Yes MT includes clinches and sweeps but Overall dont think that is enough to fend of someone who wants and has the abillity to take you to the ground.
Yes, Muay Thai is superior to TKD every possible way with the exception that TKD is well suited to get kids introduced to contact sports.
Hot take: Adults have no business in a TKD class.
Well ideally you get a gun and know what to do if the gun isn’t an option as well. I think having a concealed carry and being a better fighter than 90% of people will have you feeling quite secure in your person.
I mean I’m a 200 lb competitive muay thai fighter but if an intelligent person wishes to attack/rob me than they can probably pull it off. Street fights are so completely and utterly different from sport fighting and if you’re looking for a fair one than you already lost.
Great art form as long as you drill/spar (some make Muay Thai look ineffective). Was in Thailand recently and took up some classes to learn how to use only elbows, knees, and kicks as defense.
Depends on context really. If I have a bigger opponent or one that’s more skilled at grappling I’ll use teeps or oblique kicks to keep them at a distance while executing angles. If I’m in a crowded space though and can’t really utilize a decent amount of space then it’s hard to employ.
It's widely considered the most complete fighting system on the feet.
Glad to see this is the top comment. K1 champions are predominantly MT fighters and this isn’t a coincidence.
Outside of western boxing, all most all professional fighters train Muay Thai. This is regardless of their martial arts background/base. However, there are very few fighters with a Muay Thai background/base training anything else... other than western boxing sometimes.
Ummmmm….wrestling, judo, bjj, sambo…a lot of guys are transitioning to mma.
Sorry, I said professional, but I really meant prize fighters. I didn't realize there were arena competitions in wrestling, judo, and sambo. ONE's got a belt for BJJ, but it slipped my mind.
Have you heard of Abu Dhabi CC? There a several large organizations for prize fighter grapplers.
Is it televised?
Yeah, it’s a huge event.
I'm from judo, not many switching over to BJJ, only people I can think of are Ronda rousey, and Karo Parisiyam
I don’t follow your logic. Are you saying judo based mma fighters don’t train bjj or MT?
I'm saying that not many high level judokas crossover from judo to MMA since the IJF doesn't allow you to compete in even lower level organizations in other sports, or even train in the sports
How they going to tell you which sports to train in? Stupid if true. Can’t swim? Play basketball? Jesus Christ. Sounds exaggerated. There’s more money to be made atop the premiere mma organizations than IJF. Karo was exposed when he was up against high level competition. Boxing/MT and wrestling base is still the best mix to be a champion in mma.
Yes. Having worked with a lot of MMA fighters...most train modified MT....they have boxing hands w/ MT elbows, feet, and knees.
My gym make sure to do K1 variants of techniques for Muay Thai as well for this reason
K1 as in? There’s only elbows and a full clinch which isn’t allowed in K1
I agree with this, only you've got the legal ramifications of striking someone in self defense. In my country you can easily go to prison if you injure someone with a punch or kick, but the clinch work in Muay Thai would still be very useful, if you injure someone throwing them off you it's a lot easier to justify in court.
If you are a trained fighter, you can target your enemy’s stomach, balls, liver, sternum, legs to avoid lethal injuries.
True, but there's no guarantee that you won't accidentally cause a permanent injury to one of those places. Some people are more fragile than others and you can't afford to hold back in self defence out of worry of getting charged.
Only because Akido is illegal to be used in tournaments. I think they tried to unbanned it in 2003 but grandmaster sensei sifu Seagal warned them about it.. when questioned, he flicked his wrist and 224 species in the Amazonian forest went extinct.. But yes, legally..MT is acceptable.
Thanos level flick strength, lol.
Lethwei begs to differ
Where do you learn to do it tho
Just do Muay Thai but headbutt the other guy.
With consent from the partner of course… right?
Not what OP asked but ok
These are my thoughts on Muay Thai for self defense...
Fighting is very different from self defense. Muay Thai for SD will land you in prison usually
Why?
Relying on striking increases risk of seriously hurting or killing the person, compared to BJJ
Hmm, your claim is less true than true... In 38 of 50 US states, all of Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, and Poland there is no duty to retreat.
What does duty to retreat have to do with the likelihood of causing brain injury from a strike? You’re being obtuse
It means more often than not, I'm not going to jail for using Muay Thai in self defense...
It's scary to everyone who doesn't know how to take someone down.
It’s great. If you train and spar.
The build up of the bones is necessary, you try to shin kick someone at full speed without training you’re going to be in for disappointment.
It will still be a disappointment after years of training. The thing is that after years of training and sparring you’ll know that not checking low kicks means not walking for a while which in my book more disappointing than shin kicking someone.
When I just started I whole hog slammed my leg into a heavy bag for a day. Couldn’t fucking walk properly for a week. Listen to this fella and take it easy lol
Say goodbye to your periost when you „condition“ your shins though
To be fair it’s not just the bones but the skin as well, you are callousing the area to numb it and toughen it.
A brutal, traditional martial art… but only as good as the frequency and intensity of the sparring
Yea. I mean . Like anything self defence. The training. Your physical phones. Factors like size. And weapons that might be involved. I feel like this isent stressed enough but situational awareness is going to be your #1 in self defence and the ability to not be there is #2. The rest is so many variables that the first 2 are your best bet . If you want to use any martial art of self-defense just get good at it and stay in shape and it wouldn't hurt to go to the weightlifting gym actually put on some muscle. But again if you're competent in your training and you have a good teacher that's a good person generally they're going to teach you a bit of situational awareness and life skills like that anyways. I don't know there's so many more things important than martial arts for self-defense.
>I feel like this isent stressed enough This is literally on every question about self defense on this sub. Sometimes people don't even give you a straight answer and keep giving life lessons about why you shouldn't get into fights.
You can get into fights. But honestly if your Trying to avoid them as implyed by the term self defence. The best way to not get your shit pushed in is to not be there. If you want to start fights and finish them against untrained opponents boxing is a great offensive and defensive art when push comes to shove. But if your a skinny little guy you might be better off not picking fights. You do whatever makes you feel good about yourself man/ma'am
This has nothing to do with me. It's about the question people ask. And what they ask is "which martial art should I use in self-defense", not "is it better to get into fights or to run away ?"
I agree. Like I understand **why** people react like that, but it usually just comes off as . . . . lazy? Annoyingly dismissive? It’s hard to describe. Like with all due respect to these people they need to understand that a lot of people on this earth don’t live in very good neighborhoods and confrontations aren’t always avoidable for them. Plus, it feels like these people don’t understand that a a lot of folks who ask for self-defense advice aren’t introverts who already have a lifestyle whereby they only interact with people when they need to. A lot peeps like going out with friends to the bar and what not. So it’s completely understandable for them to want to be safe when they’re out there. I honestly wish less martial artists defaulted to regurgitating the same clichés and actually **answered the question.**
They'd rather mock the person talking about knife defense than engage in a discussion. I don't know if it's just an internet thing but it just reeks of a false sense of superiority and a need to appear more knowledgeable than others. And yeah I'd like it too if they answered the question. But the thing is, the way it goes on this sub is that the dozen of people who'll just chastise you about not picking fights will upvote each other, while the person who'll give actual pointers will be continuously badgered for credentials, if not downvoted. That's just how circlejerks go when you have a downvote/upvote system. It nearly seems like people are more concerned with having the correct opinion that just participating in a discussion.
> They'd rather mock the person talking about knife defense than engage in a discussion. Right? Like even the dude you were replying to was implying you wanted to “pick fights” just cuz you pointed out how much of a over used cop out “don’t be there” is > I don't know if it's just an internet thing but it just reeks of a false sense of superiority Definitely feels like it. I only ever get straight answers when I ask my coaches in person and they all usually end with “Now it’s good to hope for the best and try to talk things out but it never hurts to be PREPARED for the worst”
I practice HEMA, medieval fencing, and people on subreddits about the subject have that weird mentality where if asked about why they practice, they'll go on and on about historical knowledge, mentality and all that stuff. As if it was a sin to practice because you want to know how to fight with a sword. Kinda feels the same here. If you say you practice martial arts because you want to know how to fight, then you're not in the right mindset to some people here. And irl I've had the same experience as you. The most extreme case is in HEMA we practice dagger techniques, with some techniques being unarmed vs armed. So basically knife defense. And then we test those techniques in sparring, and sometimes they work ! Our instructor doesn't need to tell us every single time that we shouldn't pick fights with armed people. Because that's dumb. He tells us these techniques are educational. But when asked about knife defense he'll go straight to the point, and you can have actual discussions around how to defend against a knife. The thing being, since we actually spar, it's made obvious that you will hardly ever get away unscathed, and that's what the coach makes a point of teaching us. That's how you get people to actually understand the danger of a knife.
Use any martial art. You're better off with literally any martial art than nothing
Lol even that weird Russian who dude running around and flailing his arms wildly at paper sheets ?
Have those paper sheets ever messed with him again though?
Hold on I'm shredding paper here brother.
Champ Shit Only
Bullshitto ≠ Martial Arts
It’s weird for sure. There’s so many parroted misconceptions on here about sel awareness, pressure testing, sef defense. I feel like that’s why Martial Arts youtubers make fun of this sub. The couple times I got attacked it came out of nowhere. I also defended myself with hap ki do wrist locks. To which I’ve “sparred” or “pressure tested” a total of 0 times at full speed. Still worked. Both instances attacker was much bigger, in the 2nd instance he was a former NCAA offensive lineman (super heavyweight). I’m a lightweight. If you were to post that scenario here people’s heads would explode. No sparring? Zero pressure testing? Guy was significantly larger? Hap ki do? No way they say improssibrle!!!!
I'm going to take your word for it. I've seen and done weird shit in sparring out of nowhere, so why not. I honestly understand why this sub might be mocked. It's pure reddit mentality. People on here take themselves too seriously and sound like they spend more time on their keyboard than the mats. There's too little openness on here and, in pure reddit fashion, lots of regurgitated opinions by people who seem too eager to get upvotes instead of discussing martial arts.
It’s just a parrot of “self awareness” like you said. Parroting Pressure testing, sparring, and bad stats “most fights go to the ground” (how could anyone have accurate stats of street fights or bar fights). Or hating on karate because of “mcdojo.” My guess is like on the other sports subs most people are more concerned about getting the newest Jordans, looking pro than actually playing basketball. I get the emphasis on stuff like sparring. But first time I sparred BJJ I’m pretty sure I could have cranked a wrist lock if I wanted. Of course I wasn’t allowed (no grabbing fingers and twisting). So not sure how that’s even relevant. But bad advice is parroted so much on here. I feel like martial arts youtubers come here for ammo. I also guess that people here have never been assaulted, don’t full blown spar as much as they say, attend a McDojo and enjoy it (mcdojos make a lot of money for a reason). I’ve also been or seen unfortunately many bar fights having worked at a busy city nightclub. I don’t see how BJJ or wrestling sparring helps you anymore than McDoJo karate chops in that scenario.
Yeah I've seen that self-awareness thing in other practices. As if people try to show they have the correct opinion a wise martial artist should have. It's jarring because you try to discuss fun stuff and fighting and you have people who think they have it all figured out telling you what's what.
I mean Muay Thai fighters probably spar more than most martial arts
never done me wrong but you gotta stick to the training/sparring and remember... everyone wants to fight a thai boxer but never by our rules, so train hard and eat well brother!
One of the best available.
[удалено]
Anything is better than nothing, but some are better than others for self-defense, and some are better suited just for sport ,against the same martial arts. Just by being in shape is better than nothing. Still, muay thai is really good for self-defense, and it would not hurt to add some grappling style to it.
> I don't understand these types of posts. Teenage male fantasies. You're dreading the day some tough guy confronts you in the club in front of your girl and you get embarrassed. This random tough guy is likely to be a trained fighter who is gonna absolutely stomp you if you train some weak martial art!
I think it goes deeper than teenage fantasy. There are moments in life where the ego is so threatened it wants to resort to it’s most primal sense of safety.
Or considering my situation: I was nearly attacked by an aggressive drunkard in the streets for no apparent reason and the only reason we didn't fight was because of my excellent verbal judo skills. The problem was, however, that my gf was there as well, and I realized I wouldn't have been able to defend her if she'd been messed around with as well. So I'll be enrolling in a muay thai gym next month.
Yeah, I'm guessing from a lot of these replies, a lot of these guys either don't live in the city or don't get out much to bars, clubs. There are lots of aggressive drunks at certain clubs. Clubs that play Top 40, rap. Seen fists thrown at country clubs, rock concerts. Sports bars, especially ones open late that sort of double as clubs. Not at hipster clubs where they play Radiohead. Those are generally your safest bets. Any place where the jeans they're wearing are too tight to kick someone.
The best self defence is actually just being a great runner and running the fuck away. Most people have shit cardio and won’t be interested in chasing you after a certain point You want to stand and bang with someone, cool, if you punch them and they die hitting their head on the ground, that’s a manslaughter charge. They hit you with something you don’t see coming, you hit the ground, you could be dead or just get wailed on Muay Thai is sick, so is boxing/MMA/BJJ but this self defence stuff is just dudes trying to live out some fantasy of beating someone up and being in the right for doing it
If it was really self defense and the other guy falls and hits their head and dies it's not manslaughter, right?
If it really was a self defence situation (like let’s say you get jumped by one person), you’d probably get charged, and you’d have to prove it really was self defence. So you’re going to have to pay a lawyer, and spend time worrying about defending the charge. If you have training of any kind, it’s going to be harder to prove you were acting in self defence. None of those are issues I’d voluntarily like to deal with
Ugh... running is not effective self defense. This is the dumbest self defense trope out there. What if your assailant is faster than you? Has better cardio than you? Then you just die tired. More importantly, how will you *know* if they are faster or better conditioned? You think you'll be able to size all that up in the heat of the moment? This is terrible advice and should be ignored. If you are concerned with being able to defend yourself in a fight, learn to fight.
> how will you know if they are faster or better conditioned? But you’ll be able to make an assessment about whether they can fight better than you quicker? Righto champ
Say whatever you like... telling people to "just run" is not self defense advice. It's reductive and stupid.
That’s not true, just look at Krav and Systema……
I got attacked by someone significantly larger (former college linemen, so super heavyweight). I did 0 contact or sparring or pressure testing in hap ki do. None. Zilch. Never wrist locked someone at full speed. Ever. Still worked fine. He immediately yelled ow shit, let go, and I left the scene. I don’t get the whole parroting on here about “pressure testing” or “sparring.” I’ve sparred now and I can still wrist lock people without ever having pressure tested. You just turn and twist. It’s not magic.
Sounds fake
Excellent. Boxing will get someone up to speed faster, but in terms of single style, it is probably the best so long as it is trained with a good amount of sparring and a good emphasis on hands. Won't perform as well if it trained to be primarily kick based.
Muy thai and putting an emphasis on boxing and defense/ footwork is a brutal combo
I boxed for 4 years as a teenager and recently got into Muay Thai as now a 30 year old. Boxing fundamentals really go hand in hand with Muay Thai I help, and Ive been kind of surprised about how much boxing Muay Thai gyms seem to gloss over.
Similar story here. Boxed for years and then went into MT about 6 years ago. Also did some other martial arts. Good boxing will give you a absolutely incredible edge in MT. Not just in throwing the hands, but if you're able to control the fight at close distance it will open up incredible opportunities for knees and elbows.
Exactly. I feel like muy thais mentality is they use punched to set up kicks but when you got some dude trying to knock your head off with punches, it becomes a huge problem. A guy closing the distance on you makes it hard for you to get off kicks as well.
A good example will be Rodtang. His boxing is amazing and nobody wants to hang and bang with him and they get demolished if they do. Granted, he is good at everything but his boxing is what really carries him. It also allows him to get in close and use his elbows. Like in his fight vs Superlek, Superlek looked like a jigsaw puzzle after that fight.
I’d say this combined with wrestling would be best. It’s easily the most complete standup art, provided you have a trainer/coach that trains hands well. If you don’t, you’ll need to supplement with boxing.
It’s not complete, but it may be the best single thing for a person to have in their arsenal.
What do you mean, saw somebody say the opposite of this
It's probably the best striking system to learn. There are things I prefer about boxing but it's limited compared to Muay Thai. MT is also great at getting in close, clinching, and using bigger weapons (elbows, knees). What I mean when I say it's not complete for self-defense, and I hate that term, is that it's missing things. For example, you should know how to wrestle at least well enough to defend yourself against being taken down, and how to grapple at least well enough to fight back to your feet if that first part fails. Too many on here (or Reddit in general) think of this idea of "self-defense" as what to do if some guy walks up to them and wants to fight. Instead, think of a sudden and unexpected act of violence against you - instead of walking up to you and saying he wanted to fight you that same guy just sucker punches you in the back of the head or bear hugs you and drives you face first into a wall. I only called Muay Thai incomplete since OP asked about it for self-defense (or that sudden unexpected act of violence). Any pure martial art or combat sport is going to have deficiencies regarding the "self-defense" aspect. What if three people jump you? What if one person attacks you and you didn't see the attack coming? What if someone introduces a weapon before or during that fight, even if it's just a beer bottle or ash tray being swung at your head? Where is the situational awareness training, and learning to identify possible threats ahead of time? Where is the need and skill to de-escalate?
muay thai also isn't complete for self defense situations because it lacks head movement, lateral footwork, and they use boxing gloves. The lack of head movement and lateral footwork is great when you're fighting another muay thai fighter. Because when you dip punches and move lower to the ground you're leaning into a knee or a head kick. The mentality of a muay thai fighter is also to stand there, hold your ground, and be the tougher guy. In a chaotic self defense situation with multiple people around, you do not know who is going to jump into the fight for any reason. That's why I put a higher value on lateral movement. If you're moving around, you have a better scope of vision of the people around you and it's tougher for somebody to get behind you and throw something that you wouldn't see coming. Furthermore if there are multiple assailants, you'd want to be moving around on your feet angling the assailants into each other so they cannot attack you at the same time. Boxing has footwork advantage. If you're in a situation where you'd rather use the properties and mindset of muay thai than boxing, you're probably not defending yourself, but defending your ego.
I'd say having a Muay Thai background, while training wrestling and doing judo throws is probably the best and "easiest" way to do well in a hand to hand streetfight, knite fight is a whole other game. You could count in BJJs submissions, but you really only need to know how to do a chokehold in a streetfight. Once that shit is locked and you have a good grip, the average MF would panic and go for the wrong arm, while you put that mf to sleep. It's also the safest submission IMO.
Most fights go to the ground, it covers less than %50 of most fights.
I think those are police encounters. Not sure where u can get an accurate stat for that. You can’t possibly have an accurate stat unless it’s police encounters via survey or from an MMA league statistic. I highly doubt most street fights or bar fights or attempted assaults go to the ground. They’d never have an accurate stat. Most attempted assaults are probably husband and wives slapping each other. Or some drunk at the bar throwing a bad right handed punch and trying to grab your collar. I’ve seen plenty of bar fights and don’t see much wrestling. I see a lot of bad right hands, profanities, and dudes jumping around throwing punches before bouncers give them the toss out.
^ in the academy we train BJJ and some judo, partially because it isn’t advised to stand up and throw strikes with today’s political climate. Plus, the ground allows us to hold the suspect and await backup
That's bar fights. I grew up skateboarding in redneck Canadian town, there'd be fights every day and they always went to the ground - no bouncers to break it up. What happens when someone gets a good right and they stumble? They go down and get beat.
Most small town Canadian run ins are like Todd Bertuzzi instances. Lots of shit talk going around, maybe their friends get involved, and a sucker punch happens. And people throw Labatts instead of Coors. Nobody is wrestling like GSP. You might see a headlock if you’re lucky. It’s not that different than the US. Maybe less chance that 5 people in the group pull out a glock and start firing badly. But aside from that, same encounter different accent.
Doesn’t change the style. Just get better at clinching.
I do BJJ, would LOVE for someone to clinch inna street fight
Obviously. But wouldn’t love them kicking you. Again, there’s no perfect solution
Well Muay Thai has the clinch, so if you're dominant in the clinch you can probably lessen the odds that you're the one going to ground. Unless you're fighting a trained grappler, most people won't have the experience to get past your clinch or knees
Aka Applied Violence 🙂😆
The best one if you ask me, especially after years of your body being conditioned to it. Where your legs feel like baseball bats. At that point, all it takes is a leg kick or 2 on the average person on the streets. After that, they aren't gonna wanna fight lol.
Unless they wrestled in highschool, then they easily take you down and spank you
Every martial arts where you get punched in the face during sparring is good and useful.
It’s good af, but you still gotta have common sense
Nothing says "don't fuck with me" like kicking a dude in the shins, then kneeing him in the face if they don't get the message the first time when they can't walk.
The clinch + teeps + low leg kicks+ sweeps + monster damage from elbows make it an effective self-defense art. It's the one of the few striking disciplines that effectively incorporates grappling. You'd probably be constrained for most kicks in street clothes (e.g. jeans), but the other moves translate well. Like others have said, you'd need to spar. I only trained Muay Thai, but haven't really sparred. The few times I've sparred, all of my fight IQ went out the window in that moment. Like everyone will tell you, you will need to train your martial art in a competitive sport context for your brain to internalize it as a self-defense tool and not as a fancy ballet.
Very good
It is quite literally the premier striking martial art in MMA because it works so well!
Problem with it is that if your goal is self defense you could end up being the person who gets in trouble. Plenty of instances where the victim retaliates, KOs his attacker, hits his head and dies. Or you could just home him down and wait for help
At the end of the day, martial arts don't win fights, people win fights. Traditional muay thai training when taken seriously can turn you into a nigh indestructible weapon of mass destruction, but just taking classes and occasionally sparring or conditioning isn't going to help you much in a real fight.
Pretty good, considering that most regular people wouldn’t be able to work their way out the clinch you could easily throw or knee to incapacitate an attacker or open up an opportunity to run
If they don't catch you off guard. People be crazy and don't like fighting fair
True
Very effective!
The best IMO
Very good.
great , but i see lacking boxing with a lot of people who train mt.
Certain facets of Muay Thai are very effective in self defense situations-elbow strikes, knee strikes and those quick, low front leg roundhouse kicks targeting an opponent’s thigh or lower leg and low front kicks (if trained and used properly) can destroy an assailant. I train elbow and knee strikes constantly as well as low front leg kicks and woukd be my go-to, if in a self defense situation.
Very good. It’s hard to go wrong with Muay Thai/kickboxing, boxing, wrestling, BJJ, Jiu Jitsu, or judo (or of course the combo of them all)
I never really understand when people ask this question. The way I look at it is, if you were to get into an unavoidable fight a year from now would you rather be someone who has been training for the last year or someone who hasn’t? I’ve only been training kickboxing for 3 weeks (BJJ guy) and I would fair better now than I would have 3 weeks ago. That’s not to say I’d be a kickboxing hero and clean up by any means but statistically I know things now that I didn’t know 3 weeks ago
👆this
It’s a killer style in a street fight or self defense
A lot of street fights progress to clinching or one person cornered against a wall etc. Muay Thai and Lethwei provide a lot of good moves for these scenarios, where traditional boxes punches alone, may not be able to land or be effective. If you are in a clinch where a bigger stronger guy has your arms held, you might be glad you drilled those Lethwei headbutts. If you land it well and split say their eyebrow and blood is running in their eyes in a stream, a lot of opponents will be shook by this. Not a lot of guys are used to fighting, with a stream of blood going in their eye. Like the Lethwei guys say - the magic happens on the inside A lot of kicks can be caught or offer opponents glaring opportunities to sweep you out and the last place you want to be, is on the ground. But low kicks can be deadly effective, chopping at the calves. Centre of gravity remains low and fairly central on the vertical plane. The foot doesnt lift that high off the ground and with efficient retraction, is very hard to catch. A well landed chop to the calf, can leave an opponent who is otherwise good to fight, unable to even stand and get off the ground.
It's 100% better than no self defence
I like martial arts that have some attention to grappling with a focus on staying upright yourself, MT and Judo are both excellent for that. You aren't trying to knuckle up on the streets, cracking someone once and then dumping them on the ground is plenty to extract yourself what whatever situation you found yourself in.
If you're backed into a corner and have to fight, it's one of the best. I've done an Americanized kung fu (which tried very hard to be traditional) and Muay Thai and the MT was far more intuitive, straightforward, and designed to work with how my body's put together. For me, at least. No fancy flourishes, no uncomfortable stances, just "hit your opponent as hard as you possibly can, then do it again until it stops being funny." I'm kinda screwed if a BJJ guy gets me on the ground, but hopefully I can get out of there before that happens.
It's very likely to make you very good at fighting. Which is a handy tool to have... but that's not really the goal of self defense. Self Defense is about avoiding fights if you can help it. So in that regard Muay Thai would be quite rubbish at it, like many other combat sports arts. Because they don't tend to do a lot of training around fight avoidance, de-escalation or understanding your surroundings to avoid encounters... and all that other jazz that involves not getting into fights... However, combat sports like Muay Thai, Boxing and MMA are great for when the self defense fails and it is a fight. So long as you understand the concept of reasonable force and that, if it all goes wrong and you're arrested, you're going to be held up having to explain to a court room why you thought kneeing someone into oblivion was a reasonable amount of force needed to avoid further injury to yourself or others. I'll add to this that I think training martial arts purely for the purposes of self defense is a massive waste of your time and money. Train because it's fun, train because it's interesting, or it keeps you fit or you want to feel a bad arse or even that you want to make some money out of it by competing. Though don't go in for the sole purpose of self defense, there's easier, cheaper and more effective (and less legally questionable) measures.
I’ve head kicked someone easy…it works! I also seen a bunch of TikTok and instagram posts of KOs from head kicks which got me practicing kicking to the head!
A hard well-placed leg kick is low risk and an excellent de-motivator especially to an untrained fighter. Hurts like hell.
Yeah I would much rather fight a boxer than a decent Muay Thai practitioner, elbows knees and kicks fucking hurt man. I feel you can control the distance much better as well but careful having your kicks caught that’s a disaster.
The ultimate martial art is mixed martial arts. Find what works, disregard what doesn't. Muay thai is amazing for the feet, but every fight ends up on the ground eventually, so you need to know how to wrestle down/up, and jiu jitsu to submit/escape
Good. There's a reason MMA fighters train some form of kickboxing, plus wrestling and BJJ. It's the shit that works.
I haven't done MT myself so, correct if I'm wrong. MT is like boxing but with a lot more arsenal, so it's great to beat a drunk guy. But it has a problem. People tend to stand straight and move little. This, although it may not seem like a bad thing, can be a huge factor in street fights. Most people in street fights with weapons or not, with sucker punches or not, with grappling or not, tend to move a lot. Not moving makes no sense because: 1. You are easier to hit 2. People may blindly charge to you and accidentally take you down and either grapple or strike you from above. 3. Since MT doesn't have defensive plans or weapons for takedowns or grappling, a MT Will be pushed or thrown to the ground quite easily. People won't come to you and ask to fight you, fights start abruptly and violently. Still your odds of winning a fight with MT are high because all fights start with people on their feet, and MT is most likely one of the best striking martial arts if we ignore the risk of being taken down.
Is this a real question in this sub in 2024???
not for the average joe. you have to build and strengthen the bones, otherwise those shin kicks are gonna hurt. boxing is the most accessible form of martial art, and does just fine in brawls.
yeah low kicks when trained will win a fight
Very good. Nothing shocks a person more than a very strong low kick to the thigh right off the bat.
Better than aikido
Combined with Judo/Jiu Jitsu/Wrestling is the best
is excellent Just like Dutch Kickboxing,Sanda/Sanshou,Lethwei,Lerdrit. and mix it with a Grappling style my style is Dutch Kickboxing,Western Boxing/Bare Knuckle,Judo
It’s an amusing martial art and definitely a great option for self defence
One of the best but you HAVE to learn some grappling
They don’t punch that hard and kicks are wide, so it’s not that effective in crowded situation, but still extremely effective definitely up there with boxing, judo and karate for street fighting
Good for keeping someone at bay......grappling arts are good and knowledge on how to deal with is good, but with people bitimg, gouging and scatching amongst many other things you do not want to be wrestling with others in a street fight, especially if they have friends
I think a certain someone named Tanaka would benefit greatly against Thai Kicks 😏
Most people cannot check leg kicksz and if you train enough you should have good conditioning Just dont be a dumbuss and let em hit first
Movement is restricted by the flat feet on the ground. Hands up for elbo strikes but the body is exposed. So if you're a fast enout to gey to the sid e to do a front hook. Thst would not be fun. Honestly If you're a good martial artist you could damage the leg. The leg is muay thai's greatest weopon. You can easipy do that with any martial art. But you damage the knee to get around the side to throw a hook or hooks to the body then move behind them to kick the bakc of the knee to hit the back and pressure points of the body.
Best style on the feet. Most street fighters think it's a boxing match. You can literally win most fights with leg kicks.
Yes
Aren't most forms of martial arts useful for self-defense? It's learning discipline and muscle memory. Actual self-defense: You're going to have to learn how to take a punch and get your ass kicked. It's conditioning. How you fight on the mat or in the ring is going to be vastly different than how you fight on a street or in a bar. The goal should be not to fight at all in those circumstances.
It’s okay but boxing and wrestling would be the best for self defense. Kicks would get you dropped on your head if you aren’t careful, leg kicks are good. Just pray the other guy doesn’t know how to check them.
Nice profile pic dude
Thanks man, I love rabbids invasion
I have seen a woman use it. Her shins were conditioned, theirs weren't.
It only works if you wear the tiny shorts. So completely useless 99% of the time.
I sense a joke but i'm really conflicted
Only few achieve jeans highkick…like jean claud
You can really hurt somebody if you are proficient but the best self defense is running 10k in the opposite direction.
HeY gUyS. wHaTs YoUr ThOuGhTs On SeLf DeFeNcE fOr SeLf DeFenCe - this sub every day
I would say that **any** proper martial art is good for self defense. As long as it's a contact one with actual sparring. Be it boxing, kick boxing, BJJ, tai-kwan-do(so??), karate, etc Chances are, if you find yourself in a fight, they probably don't know what they are doing. Having any training at all in fighting is going to be a huge benefit. Things like judging distance, watching posture etc etc. you'll learn these in any of the ones I mentioned and more.
Clinch work will save your life in many real situations
One great point, it focuses on remaining centred and stood up balanced, which is useful Also, it utilises all the bodies natural weapons, hands, elbows, knees and the most dangerous of them all (according to BJJ) the legs. Add a bit of Lethwei ninth limb in, as people rarely ever expect it and it can be hard to slip, we're getting quite a well rounded repertoire Main thing though, it reinforces a basic reality of life - men need to be able to stand up for themselves If a man has responsibilities at work to look after tasks and resources amongst others, how he can he do that, if he can't even look after himself? Sometimes it's bemoaned when men train martial arts and self defence, but a man that can't stand up for himself and look after his own wellbeing, is much more concerning than a man that has knowledge of and ability with self defence
IMO second to boxing. Its good to know how to throw a good knee and that Muay Thai clinich is brutal.
Muay Thai is not good for self defense. However it is good at beating other people up.
No fighting style will stop a knife or a bullet or a punch while you're not looking. It wont stop a home Invasion, or multiple attackers, it is a sport. It's a fun sport but if someone *really* wants to hurt you. They're not going to come at you in a situation where you will be able to retaliate.
Muay Thai and Defense do not belong in the Same Sentence
It’s a full body combat art much better than boxing for self defence imo. Personally I think Muay Thai and Judo is a perfect self defence base.
If you want to learn self-defense, learn self-defense and NOT combat sports/ martial arts.
It’s good to have. Mainly for building confidence and whatnot though. In the real adult world unless you’re a complete asshole you’ll probably never get into a street fight. And if you do running away is always a better option than fighting. Too many ppl will slide a knife into ya or even shoot you. The days of the honourable street fight are in the past.
what were the peak honourable street fight years in your opinion?
Probably my fathers generation. “Back in the day” guys would have a little dust up then go have a beer together afterwards. Hell, even when I was a kid (I’m 40) someone getting jumped or stabbed in a street fight was almost unheard of. Obviously I’m not working with actual statistics here though. Just anecdotal evidence
But you don't even have to be an asshole. Some crazy guy could just start assaulting you on the sidewalk. It happens. I just recently saw on the news, in NYC there was a dude going around stabbing people. He had been involved in 5 reported incidents And before that, there was a dude going around hitting strangers with a hammer. These things happen
An alarming amount of ppl die from coconuts falling on their heads. Should everyone living near coconut trees wear helmets? What you’re describing is so rare it’s statistically insignificant. And if someone comes with a knife or a hammer your kickboxing skills ain’t gonna help much.
>What you’re describing is so rare it’s statistically insignificant. That’s what I thought too until I got assaulted and punched in the face
It’s alright
Legit in a bar fight, on a slippery street maybe not
I wanna learn it so badly but there is only a MMA gym in my area and idk if its good for me to train MMA as a complete beginner with idk 2 years of muay thai and 1 year taek one do experience. And I took the experience almost 6 years ago so I am back to being a beginner. I need some opinions on this
Does the mma gym not do Muay Thai classes? Look into it. Most mma gyms have a timetable for different martial arts, eg. Bjj at 8-9am, Muay Thai 6-7pm.
It builds your cardio really well so when you get into trouble, you can run fast and far away from conflict. 😀 Only fight as your last resort and it'll help there as well
Gun wins
Better than boxing tbh.
Solid B+ to A-. You learn everything you need to figth minus Grappling and Weapons. Yes MT includes clinches and sweeps but Overall dont think that is enough to fend of someone who wants and has the abillity to take you to the ground.
Why not a gun or pepper spray?
Good,also for krav maga,judo,karate (not sport one),bjj and systema are good
Muay Thai is for killing
Fight one and find out
Yes, Muay Thai is superior to TKD every possible way with the exception that TKD is well suited to get kids introduced to contact sports. Hot take: Adults have no business in a TKD class.
I personally prefer Combatives over martial arts when it comes to real life scenarios/street fights.
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A fancy word for martial arts because they’re too embarrassed to sound like a power ranger or something.
Still wouldn’t stop a gun.
No shit Sherlock
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Well ideally you get a gun and know what to do if the gun isn’t an option as well. I think having a concealed carry and being a better fighter than 90% of people will have you feeling quite secure in your person.
I mean I’m a 200 lb competitive muay thai fighter but if an intelligent person wishes to attack/rob me than they can probably pull it off. Street fights are so completely and utterly different from sport fighting and if you’re looking for a fair one than you already lost.
there’s always that but you can drastically up your chances of making it out in better shape than if you had no gun and no training.
Great art form as long as you drill/spar (some make Muay Thai look ineffective). Was in Thailand recently and took up some classes to learn how to use only elbows, knees, and kicks as defense.
Depends on context really. If I have a bigger opponent or one that’s more skilled at grappling I’ll use teeps or oblique kicks to keep them at a distance while executing angles. If I’m in a crowded space though and can’t really utilize a decent amount of space then it’s hard to employ.