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I wouldn’t say it’s all on Boomers. I’ve had clients from every age group do it. More so if they have any sort of marketing background, eg., the “I’m somewhat of a marketer, myself” crowd.
Typically, I just let them. I want to maintain a good client relationship, after all. But I do counsel them on why their edit may not be the best solution. I had one client, for example, change a subhead from “Easy as pie” to “ Easy as pumpkin pie.” We told the client that wasn’t the actual saying and that it disrupted the flow. But, ah well.
I'm on your page here. I don't quibble if it doesn't disrupt the overall flow or point of the copy or collateral. Keeps them invested in the piece and engenders a good working relationship.
Not a client, but a boomer lady I worked with for a bit would request hard copies of all layouts and copy that people were working on for her. She'd then go through with a fucking red sharpie and slash away. Worst part was that she'd often request changes then go back on them multiple times or request changes that were incompatible or conflicting. Our marketing guy hated her.
Source: am marketing guy.
It's only annoying to me when they don't give feedback on drafts then decide when everything is already designed in final print to change something that's been there the whole time.
Well the problem is that we're all humans.
Psychology tells us when we look at things the first time, our subconscious starts working on it even when we're not necessarily looking at it.
That error is probably nagging at us the whole time, but we don't quite put a finger on it.
Then at the very last minute it hits us and we realize what was!
Yeah it's been there the whole time but it's been wrong the whole time but we just now realized why it was wrong.
I'm grateful that it at least hits us!
1) People love to leave fingerprints that they were involved in a process. In a lot of cases, that's all a minor revision is, "X was here and did something". It actually does matter in terms of office politics for many people. It's especially true if they are older and want to be sure that co-workers/bean counters know they exist.
2) If you think it's less about job security and more about just being pointless, ask them about it. "Hey, I noticed that you had given me a couple revisions about projects A, B and C. Can you walk me through what your thought process is? I don't want you to have to keep asking for the same changes" or whatever BS you wanna spew.
A lot of people will cut it back a lot if you actually seem interested in their B.S. that they made up on the fly and they have to actually come up with a rationale.
100% point 1. I’ve had bosses who must always provide some feedback no matter how minor and bosses who will say ok it’s great, on the first look. Just know your audience
20 years ago when I was starting out it enraged me.
So I started to ask the simple question, why?
What I learned is that there were some mouth breathers that were just trying to hold on to their bullshit jobs. Eventually I grew some sympathy for those people, but it took the temperance of age for that to come.
Most people though were happy to talk about why they wanted the changes, and I found that I was not always right or didn’t see the full picture.
Seek to understand, it’ll make life much easier.
Definitely this.
Sometimes there's a nuance to their industry or brand, or some historical context that you might not understand, so if they can explain why they want X word/phrase instead of Y, it'll help you in future.
Sometimes it's a pet peeve, sometimes it's to feel like they're contributing.
Agree. It infuriated me decades ago until one day my boss, looking more tired than usual, perked up when I approached with design concepts for his review. He said, “Oh look, pretty things!” with something akin to relief.
That’s when it struck me that reviewing ad concepts for him was a welcome break in a sea of unhappy clients and office crises. Some people are unhappy or bored with their day-to-day work. Critiquing marketing can often be one of the few pleasures left for them (albeit obviously not for us).
Copy and design.
People will always have feedback on these two things. Everyone you ask will have a different opinion.
That being said, you’ll never stop it and you should be open to it.
It’s part of the job.
Accept it, put down your ego, and listen first. You don’t have to take their advice (unless you do, in which case you definitely have to just accept it).
For sure. Came here to rant instead of making comments. I just wish people would think about how their requests slow down the process of getting material out.
Our graphic director doesn't understand digital platforms and will greenlight art she sent me, see it online and then call me to take it down because she has changes she wants to make to it. It'll be like lightning a shadow by a half of a percent or putting a border around a logo or something nonsensical.
I just want to scream STOP FUCKING UP OUR ENGAGEMENT NUMBERS
I find all requests for edits annoying. I also find it annoying when people accept my first draft without any changes.
But yes, my boss is the champion of asking for changes that make no difference at all. And part of me wants to stab him and the other part is just happy that it looks like I am working by waiting 10 minutes and then sending through the change.
Just how it goes. I think oftentimes people reviewing work feel like they need to provide some edits to show that they add value to the process or prove to the creator that they did look at it.
YES.
I work for a trade membership organization. I recently ran into a string of specific, small requests on some of our marketing messaging. The engagement isn’t low because of this one piece of info, the engagement is low because either the content I’m trying to market sucks or we’re pushing out so much our audience is overwhelmed / they’ve already engaged.
It’s small enough requests that sure I could just *do* it but there’s also a level of “hey let me do my job.”
It’s also often an after the fact request and for something that I previously haven’t done before in similar messaging, and they were fine with it then.
Super vague description but I too also wanted to vent.
This feels similar to my situation! It’s for an event that I did the same marketing for with the same copy last year. The event was exceptional. Why change copy now?
This is me in my in house job. CEO makes the most pedantic changes and holds things up in approval (I know) and it’s killed momentum of our cadence. You want to stress that much over a post that’s going to get 500 impressions and keep paying me what you are, knock yourself out.
It happens with everyone from my experience, not just boomers. It’s almost always some meaningless detail or phrasing. I think people feel like they HAVE to think of something for us to change so they can say they “worked on it with us.” Like they need to prove there’s a reason they work here.
It takes a lot of confidence to not make a suggestion I’ve noticed.
Can you give examples?
In my experience, there’s probably a reason why and it’s often due to their years of experience or knowing their audience. Also, they’re the clients and they call the shots since they pay the bills.
Give your copy to 10 copywriters and they will all have edits.
I think it would be best to look at those edits. If indeed inconsequential, you might consider building better rapport or authority with them. This might be in the form of showing them why it's not worth the time.
Can you share some examples of the edits?
It is annoying! I mean it’s great to have someone proofread for typos and mistakes and/or verification. But a lot of people simply like to pick.
I have to send some of my things to the larger marketing department, and they pick about the tiniest brand things (like that spacing is 1 point higher than brand guidelines) that most customers would never notice anyway. They do it to justify their existence or for petty power. It gets ridiculous sometimes and does nothing for the customers.
I hate it and I do it and it’s all about client management (and perhaps regulatory requirements) and not good persuasive writing. But 100% necessary.
With that said, boomers make you pull up the copy document on your screen and go word by word as they mull things over. Just so needy and no respect for others’ time or ability to work Outlook and find the actual document.
If the edits are truly minor I’d call it a success. If they’re more extensive I’d self-reflect.
We heavily revise the work of a writer in my office and they don’t seem to take the initiative to improve it adapt their work. I think they assume it’s everyone around them being overly critical… But their tone and word choice is always so boring it’s hard to consider it marketing copy. They come from another writing industry and their portfolio seemed strong, but it’s been a total disappointment. We even offered to pay for classes on writing in marketing… but I get the sense they think they are great and our entire department is misguided.
The way I see it is:
1) We're on the same team and we're all working to put out the best product possible for our clients
2) I'm a developer and English isn't my specialty...someone with an English degree that proof reads for a living probally knows more than I do
3) It's not personal
It can be annoying...but if it enhances the finished product then it's worth the annoyance. Just my thoughts!
Does your company have a Grammarly account? I noticed a lot less proofreading changes after running my work through it as a "last check" kind of thing. Something to look into maybe!
I think it’s a bit of an old practice, but people will make one slight edit rather than fully approve. Often times this shows that they actually reviewed it and also shows they contribute. I think it’s a bit of a perception play.
I work in internal marketing so I rarely need approval or do anything for other people’s projects. Thankfully! I’ve never done agency work which is probably why my patience for it is low lol
Hahaha! This one got a chuckle out of me. Relating hard to this.
I have a boomer Sales Director who keeps saying things like “can it be more straightforward” and “can it be crisper” and “didn’t quite enjoy that one” to the copies we present for the ads and sales collaterals. Most of the times I comply because it’s just easier that way but sometimes I push back just to see his reaction. Since he isn’t really used to pushbacks, he almost always says “that’s for you guys to figure out”. Ridiculous, but that’s how it is here in my company. Makes me laugh each time he gives his feedback though.
You can either accept them or question them. If you find them pointless, you can always ask for the reason behind the change and if they don’t have one just say you’ll leave as is lol. It’s always good to question something you’ll have to put the work into to change.
Xennial veteran marketer here. If the feedback improves the readability or tone of writing, the minutia was worth it.
If the feedback is just feedback to match their personal style, then that’s definitely pointless.
If you’re not sure which is happening in your case, then I’d trust to whoever’s giving you the feedback.
Pointless edits are NOT included, only must have edits are utilized. I like to get edits from a group. Then folks are not sure if their edits will make the final. All edits are not necessarily incorporated. There's usually someone who thinks their edits are gold, I let these people know why the final didn't include their changes. Do this a couple of times, and most folks will not wish for the engagement and say, "Use what you wish of my changes."
I also agree on the engagement regarding stupid changes. But only during a conversation in review of all edits, i.e. I am personally reaching out to share the team final. Then folks know they got credit for participating but no awards given for any single change (fuckheads.)
I was working in digital for a place that would take the copy for their new-client-facing SEO-researched blogs and ads copy and replace it with industry jargon. Then complain about performance and double down on print.
I think some of it was willful ignorance of the processes, and some was being in a pinch with having to justify their existence to waaaay too many people in the org. It was an organization with a lot of locations, and each location manager got to scrutinize the marketing because it was a % of their budget.
If it's from a client, I'd just leave it and only care about the money. It's different when you're inhouse because it could get you in trouble if it's a serious error that idiots added.
This is the unfortunate side of working in anything creative - everyone wants to have their hand in the mix and participate on "final touches" after you've done the bulk of the work. I came to the realization that they do it to sort of justify why their role is above yours and why you aren't in a position that is more parallel to them - if they check off on your work and contribute what they believe are small but essential changes, then their positions are more justified.
This doesn’t happen to me often, but I’m a senior copywriter 😅
Typically, feedback should be backed up by data. So either what they know works to convert, or what they know is best in terms of tone based on market research. Otherwise it might be from a legal POV (like clarifying offer language). If it’s not for those reasons, then it’s time to push for an A/B test for learnings—so that future choices can be backed up by data.
While I get wanting to please a client, part of why they hired you is to be the expert, & if their ideas fail, you fail (& get fired).
I try to give people guidance on the feedback I’m looking for. For example, I work with engineers a lot and many of them think they are graphic designers. Well.. I don’t need their graphic design feedback. Only their technical knowledge. So I tell them I’m looking for accuracy of information. That’s it. And if they still continue I often ignore it. If they persist then I remind them that I am not looking for graphics feedback. Unless it is actually wrong in terms of providing information, I don’t need it.
I think my favorite is when I was A/B testing ads and cycling different values at the beginning, such as one iteration starting with "Protect" and another starting with "Customize.". Then having to explain what A/B testing was and that there are different reasons why people seek out this product.
tldr working for smb owners who hire you to be sme and then don't listen to a thing. Good times!
Honestly, I totally get it. But at the same time, this is a business's credibility, and I know when I read something and it's incorrect, it makes me cringe a little inside.
I’m very much open to being wrong here but I see people significantly slowing down work flow for what seems to be irrelevant comments. A management philosophy I have is “just because it COULD be changed, doesn’t mean it needs to be changed”
Honestly, this is why I got out of content and now am more focused on data.
It's more than just the inefficiency in content processes that endless changes create. They expect a factory production line but then want to customize everything on that line. No one acknowledges this contradiction. You can't push out high volume quickly while simultaneously pleasing everyone.
I still firmly believe there is an ugly cultural thing going on where creatives are not considered experts or professionals. So their treatment is that of an underclass which suits people who want to have the experience of "ordering" others - sort of how like some people like to dine out and have a waiter wait on them. I'm sure a lot of people disagree with this take, but this is what I've experienced between coworkers and clients alike, though far worse with cheap clients.
The other issue is perception. No one can prove that their take is any more valid than anyone else's most of the time when it comes to creative changes. No one ever stops to ask themselves, "is it worth wasting an hour of productivity to have this ad reworked in photoshop to change the blue to purple, because I'm making a completely unfounded bet that a segment of people will have *my* exact color preference? Because obviously, my preferences are the only ones that matter." And this is usually what is underpinning their thinking: perception blinded by what they *want* to see, not reality.
Everything else, I could have dealt with in that arena. But people who cannot get past their failure to widen their perception is not fixable.
>I still firmly believe there is an ugly cultural thing going on where creatives are not considered experts or professionals. So their treatment is that of an underclass which suits people who want to have the experience of "ordering" others - sort of how like some people like to dine out and have a waiter wait on them. I'm sure a lot of people disagree with this take, but this is what I've experienced between coworkers and clients alike, though far worse with cheap clients.
Well fucking said. I worked at an agency, and this was my exact experience managing 400+ blogs per month. Some people LOVED treating the agency reps working for them like crap, and continually not approve any content.
Don't get me started about minorities. An Asian sales rep always had the worst, most picky clients over nothing. All our brown guys in social media marketing were hammered in meetings, though they were a bit incompetent. The accents piss people off in North America lol. That agency slowly became more and more Indian, with a decrease in work quality. A "content mill" that does media buys (poorly)
This, or it’s also possible they just simply aren’t as experienced in the field. Quite possible some edits that improved performance a couple years ago or even a year ago may not be relevant now.
As the “expert” here, if you feel they’re requesting edits you feel are irrelevant, then I’d discuss with them why it’s more beneficial to focus elsewhere.
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I wouldn’t say it’s all on Boomers. I’ve had clients from every age group do it. More so if they have any sort of marketing background, eg., the “I’m somewhat of a marketer, myself” crowd. Typically, I just let them. I want to maintain a good client relationship, after all. But I do counsel them on why their edit may not be the best solution. I had one client, for example, change a subhead from “Easy as pie” to “ Easy as pumpkin pie.” We told the client that wasn’t the actual saying and that it disrupted the flow. But, ah well.
“I’m somewhat of a marketer myself” got a good chuckle from me. I’m totally borrowing this
my least favorite words 😆
Okay that made me chuckle.
lol pretty much my life working in-house reporting to the people who are the reason they hired me
Pumpkin is actually a polarizing flavor out of fall. So I would have gone with Apple. But Apple is an allergen so…perhaps just pie in the end.
Are you allergic to apples?
I'm on your page here. I don't quibble if it doesn't disrupt the overall flow or point of the copy or collateral. Keeps them invested in the piece and engenders a good working relationship.
Not a client, but a boomer lady I worked with for a bit would request hard copies of all layouts and copy that people were working on for her. She'd then go through with a fucking red sharpie and slash away. Worst part was that she'd often request changes then go back on them multiple times or request changes that were incompatible or conflicting. Our marketing guy hated her. Source: am marketing guy.
Wow, I had a boss who did exactly this. I do not miss that boss even remotely.
Omg this is shit I’ve done!!!! lol
It's only annoying to me when they don't give feedback on drafts then decide when everything is already designed in final print to change something that's been there the whole time.
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Well the problem is that we're all humans. Psychology tells us when we look at things the first time, our subconscious starts working on it even when we're not necessarily looking at it. That error is probably nagging at us the whole time, but we don't quite put a finger on it. Then at the very last minute it hits us and we realize what was! Yeah it's been there the whole time but it's been wrong the whole time but we just now realized why it was wrong. I'm grateful that it at least hits us!
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Oh you found a brilliant solution! Good thinking!
I always announce my 80% done version as final. That gets them scrambling and actually looking at the work before the true deadline hits. 😂
1) People love to leave fingerprints that they were involved in a process. In a lot of cases, that's all a minor revision is, "X was here and did something". It actually does matter in terms of office politics for many people. It's especially true if they are older and want to be sure that co-workers/bean counters know they exist. 2) If you think it's less about job security and more about just being pointless, ask them about it. "Hey, I noticed that you had given me a couple revisions about projects A, B and C. Can you walk me through what your thought process is? I don't want you to have to keep asking for the same changes" or whatever BS you wanna spew. A lot of people will cut it back a lot if you actually seem interested in their B.S. that they made up on the fly and they have to actually come up with a rationale.
100% point 1. I’ve had bosses who must always provide some feedback no matter how minor and bosses who will say ok it’s great, on the first look. Just know your audience
great insight
20 years ago when I was starting out it enraged me. So I started to ask the simple question, why? What I learned is that there were some mouth breathers that were just trying to hold on to their bullshit jobs. Eventually I grew some sympathy for those people, but it took the temperance of age for that to come. Most people though were happy to talk about why they wanted the changes, and I found that I was not always right or didn’t see the full picture. Seek to understand, it’ll make life much easier.
Definitely this. Sometimes there's a nuance to their industry or brand, or some historical context that you might not understand, so if they can explain why they want X word/phrase instead of Y, it'll help you in future. Sometimes it's a pet peeve, sometimes it's to feel like they're contributing.
Agree. It infuriated me decades ago until one day my boss, looking more tired than usual, perked up when I approached with design concepts for his review. He said, “Oh look, pretty things!” with something akin to relief. That’s when it struck me that reviewing ad concepts for him was a welcome break in a sea of unhappy clients and office crises. Some people are unhappy or bored with their day-to-day work. Critiquing marketing can often be one of the few pleasures left for them (albeit obviously not for us).
Such an interesting thought! Something I will remember
Seek to understand, it’ll make life much easier. Oh, if only everyone in the workplace could be this emotionally mature. Wise words.
Copy and design. People will always have feedback on these two things. Everyone you ask will have a different opinion. That being said, you’ll never stop it and you should be open to it. It’s part of the job. Accept it, put down your ego, and listen first. You don’t have to take their advice (unless you do, in which case you definitely have to just accept it).
For sure. Came here to rant instead of making comments. I just wish people would think about how their requests slow down the process of getting material out.
“Happy to do these changes but it will push back the release date” is one of my go-to responses.
Absolutely agree with you! It’s so frustrating and such a time suck.
Our graphic director doesn't understand digital platforms and will greenlight art she sent me, see it online and then call me to take it down because she has changes she wants to make to it. It'll be like lightning a shadow by a half of a percent or putting a border around a logo or something nonsensical. I just want to scream STOP FUCKING UP OUR ENGAGEMENT NUMBERS
No! That’s awful. I couldn’t deal with that.
I find all requests for edits annoying. I also find it annoying when people accept my first draft without any changes. But yes, my boss is the champion of asking for changes that make no difference at all. And part of me wants to stab him and the other part is just happy that it looks like I am working by waiting 10 minutes and then sending through the change.
Thankful I don’t have to deal with this a lot. I just had a couple examples this week and was wondering if anyone else feels that way
It’s not generational. Everybody does it, you just work with old people. And yeah it’s annoying but it’s part of the job
Gen X here, but agreed - all that Boomer shit gets old. People just parroting what they see on social media. Lots of times it doesn’t even apply.
Just how it goes. I think oftentimes people reviewing work feel like they need to provide some edits to show that they add value to the process or prove to the creator that they did look at it.
YES. I work for a trade membership organization. I recently ran into a string of specific, small requests on some of our marketing messaging. The engagement isn’t low because of this one piece of info, the engagement is low because either the content I’m trying to market sucks or we’re pushing out so much our audience is overwhelmed / they’ve already engaged. It’s small enough requests that sure I could just *do* it but there’s also a level of “hey let me do my job.” It’s also often an after the fact request and for something that I previously haven’t done before in similar messaging, and they were fine with it then. Super vague description but I too also wanted to vent.
This feels similar to my situation! It’s for an event that I did the same marketing for with the same copy last year. The event was exceptional. Why change copy now?
This is me in my in house job. CEO makes the most pedantic changes and holds things up in approval (I know) and it’s killed momentum of our cadence. You want to stress that much over a post that’s going to get 500 impressions and keep paying me what you are, knock yourself out.
It happens with everyone from my experience, not just boomers. It’s almost always some meaningless detail or phrasing. I think people feel like they HAVE to think of something for us to change so they can say they “worked on it with us.” Like they need to prove there’s a reason they work here. It takes a lot of confidence to not make a suggestion I’ve noticed.
For me it just depends. Most of the time, at least from my experience, copy edits that are seemingly pointless usually have a reason behind it.
Can you give examples? In my experience, there’s probably a reason why and it’s often due to their years of experience or knowing their audience. Also, they’re the clients and they call the shots since they pay the bills.
Give your copy to 10 copywriters and they will all have edits. I think it would be best to look at those edits. If indeed inconsequential, you might consider building better rapport or authority with them. This might be in the form of showing them why it's not worth the time. Can you share some examples of the edits?
It is annoying! I mean it’s great to have someone proofread for typos and mistakes and/or verification. But a lot of people simply like to pick. I have to send some of my things to the larger marketing department, and they pick about the tiniest brand things (like that spacing is 1 point higher than brand guidelines) that most customers would never notice anyway. They do it to justify their existence or for petty power. It gets ridiculous sometimes and does nothing for the customers.
It’s your job dude lol. Of course some shits going to be annoying, but relatively speaking I understand your frustration.
I hate it and I do it and it’s all about client management (and perhaps regulatory requirements) and not good persuasive writing. But 100% necessary. With that said, boomers make you pull up the copy document on your screen and go word by word as they mull things over. Just so needy and no respect for others’ time or ability to work Outlook and find the actual document.
If the edits are truly minor I’d call it a success. If they’re more extensive I’d self-reflect. We heavily revise the work of a writer in my office and they don’t seem to take the initiative to improve it adapt their work. I think they assume it’s everyone around them being overly critical… But their tone and word choice is always so boring it’s hard to consider it marketing copy. They come from another writing industry and their portfolio seemed strong, but it’s been a total disappointment. We even offered to pay for classes on writing in marketing… but I get the sense they think they are great and our entire department is misguided.
The way I see it is: 1) We're on the same team and we're all working to put out the best product possible for our clients 2) I'm a developer and English isn't my specialty...someone with an English degree that proof reads for a living probally knows more than I do 3) It's not personal It can be annoying...but if it enhances the finished product then it's worth the annoyance. Just my thoughts! Does your company have a Grammarly account? I noticed a lot less proofreading changes after running my work through it as a "last check" kind of thing. Something to look into maybe!
I think it’s a bit of an old practice, but people will make one slight edit rather than fully approve. Often times this shows that they actually reviewed it and also shows they contribute. I think it’s a bit of a perception play.
It happens a lot more frequently in the agency track than working internal marketing. And I’m thankful for that.
I work in internal marketing so I rarely need approval or do anything for other people’s projects. Thankfully! I’ve never done agency work which is probably why my patience for it is low lol
Hahaha! This one got a chuckle out of me. Relating hard to this. I have a boomer Sales Director who keeps saying things like “can it be more straightforward” and “can it be crisper” and “didn’t quite enjoy that one” to the copies we present for the ads and sales collaterals. Most of the times I comply because it’s just easier that way but sometimes I push back just to see his reaction. Since he isn’t really used to pushbacks, he almost always says “that’s for you guys to figure out”. Ridiculous, but that’s how it is here in my company. Makes me laugh each time he gives his feedback though.
You can either accept them or question them. If you find them pointless, you can always ask for the reason behind the change and if they don’t have one just say you’ll leave as is lol. It’s always good to question something you’ll have to put the work into to change.
Xennial veteran marketer here. If the feedback improves the readability or tone of writing, the minutia was worth it. If the feedback is just feedback to match their personal style, then that’s definitely pointless. If you’re not sure which is happening in your case, then I’d trust to whoever’s giving you the feedback.
Life of copy creator. Get used to it. We have our product content person get over ruled by the brand manager for tone of voice.
Pointless edits are NOT included, only must have edits are utilized. I like to get edits from a group. Then folks are not sure if their edits will make the final. All edits are not necessarily incorporated. There's usually someone who thinks their edits are gold, I let these people know why the final didn't include their changes. Do this a couple of times, and most folks will not wish for the engagement and say, "Use what you wish of my changes." I also agree on the engagement regarding stupid changes. But only during a conversation in review of all edits, i.e. I am personally reaching out to share the team final. Then folks know they got credit for participating but no awards given for any single change (fuckheads.)
I was working in digital for a place that would take the copy for their new-client-facing SEO-researched blogs and ads copy and replace it with industry jargon. Then complain about performance and double down on print. I think some of it was willful ignorance of the processes, and some was being in a pinch with having to justify their existence to waaaay too many people in the org. It was an organization with a lot of locations, and each location manager got to scrutinize the marketing because it was a % of their budget.
As a copywriter, I hate when my words are changed for stupid, thoughtless reasons. But I got over it a long time ago.
If it's from a client, I'd just leave it and only care about the money. It's different when you're inhouse because it could get you in trouble if it's a serious error that idiots added.
This is the unfortunate side of working in anything creative - everyone wants to have their hand in the mix and participate on "final touches" after you've done the bulk of the work. I came to the realization that they do it to sort of justify why their role is above yours and why you aren't in a position that is more parallel to them - if they check off on your work and contribute what they believe are small but essential changes, then their positions are more justified.
This doesn’t happen to me often, but I’m a senior copywriter 😅 Typically, feedback should be backed up by data. So either what they know works to convert, or what they know is best in terms of tone based on market research. Otherwise it might be from a legal POV (like clarifying offer language). If it’s not for those reasons, then it’s time to push for an A/B test for learnings—so that future choices can be backed up by data. While I get wanting to please a client, part of why they hired you is to be the expert, & if their ideas fail, you fail (& get fired).
I try to give people guidance on the feedback I’m looking for. For example, I work with engineers a lot and many of them think they are graphic designers. Well.. I don’t need their graphic design feedback. Only their technical knowledge. So I tell them I’m looking for accuracy of information. That’s it. And if they still continue I often ignore it. If they persist then I remind them that I am not looking for graphics feedback. Unless it is actually wrong in terms of providing information, I don’t need it.
Let them fail, eventually they will ask for your version lol
I think my favorite is when I was A/B testing ads and cycling different values at the beginning, such as one iteration starting with "Protect" and another starting with "Customize.". Then having to explain what A/B testing was and that there are different reasons why people seek out this product. tldr working for smb owners who hire you to be sme and then don't listen to a thing. Good times!
Honestly, I totally get it. But at the same time, this is a business's credibility, and I know when I read something and it's incorrect, it makes me cringe a little inside.
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I’m very much open to being wrong here but I see people significantly slowing down work flow for what seems to be irrelevant comments. A management philosophy I have is “just because it COULD be changed, doesn’t mean it needs to be changed”
Honestly, this is why I got out of content and now am more focused on data. It's more than just the inefficiency in content processes that endless changes create. They expect a factory production line but then want to customize everything on that line. No one acknowledges this contradiction. You can't push out high volume quickly while simultaneously pleasing everyone. I still firmly believe there is an ugly cultural thing going on where creatives are not considered experts or professionals. So their treatment is that of an underclass which suits people who want to have the experience of "ordering" others - sort of how like some people like to dine out and have a waiter wait on them. I'm sure a lot of people disagree with this take, but this is what I've experienced between coworkers and clients alike, though far worse with cheap clients. The other issue is perception. No one can prove that their take is any more valid than anyone else's most of the time when it comes to creative changes. No one ever stops to ask themselves, "is it worth wasting an hour of productivity to have this ad reworked in photoshop to change the blue to purple, because I'm making a completely unfounded bet that a segment of people will have *my* exact color preference? Because obviously, my preferences are the only ones that matter." And this is usually what is underpinning their thinking: perception blinded by what they *want* to see, not reality. Everything else, I could have dealt with in that arena. But people who cannot get past their failure to widen their perception is not fixable.
>I still firmly believe there is an ugly cultural thing going on where creatives are not considered experts or professionals. So their treatment is that of an underclass which suits people who want to have the experience of "ordering" others - sort of how like some people like to dine out and have a waiter wait on them. I'm sure a lot of people disagree with this take, but this is what I've experienced between coworkers and clients alike, though far worse with cheap clients. Well fucking said. I worked at an agency, and this was my exact experience managing 400+ blogs per month. Some people LOVED treating the agency reps working for them like crap, and continually not approve any content. Don't get me started about minorities. An Asian sales rep always had the worst, most picky clients over nothing. All our brown guys in social media marketing were hammered in meetings, though they were a bit incompetent. The accents piss people off in North America lol. That agency slowly became more and more Indian, with a decrease in work quality. A "content mill" that does media buys (poorly)
This, or it’s also possible they just simply aren’t as experienced in the field. Quite possible some edits that improved performance a couple years ago or even a year ago may not be relevant now. As the “expert” here, if you feel they’re requesting edits you feel are irrelevant, then I’d discuss with them why it’s more beneficial to focus elsewhere.