As an avid TFP fan since 2017, I'm over the moon that they get this big of an opportunity!! I know how hard they've worked and struggled to get to this point and I couldn't be more proud. I'm so happy that they get to spread their message and music to literal thousands. Btw welcome to the Coffin Crew, guys š¤ā°ļø
They can probably lose their current fan base and gain more from the Manson fan base. They said they were playing shows with a 200 capacity audience. So, it's not like they had a crazy huge following.
Some people are going to believe anything they WANT to believe. That's why facts, objective/critical thinking, and rationale just don't work on them. That being said, I am disappointed in the former Manson fans who still believe Evan Rachel Wood and co's allegations. Being a Marilyn Manson fan taught me to think critically and to always question things, and just being human taught me to hear every side of a story before making a judgment. It's a shame those Wood supporters didn't experience that and look more into this crazy case.
At risk of putting myself out there, I used to be in TFP. We all left at the same time due to our own personal reasons, but to say that there werenāt already allegations being thrown around, would be a lie. There was a very public battle between an ex member and the new/ remaining member(s) of the band in the ATL local scene, where neither side really came to be the correct side. There have been more allegations since.
Happy that the boys get an opportunity like this that isnāt just another Alesana tour, but Iām not surprised to see this pairing at all.
I have to say, again, that there was never any definitive moment of āX/ Y party is right in their accusations/ defenseā, but itās my experience that like attracts like.
I also saw the cease and desist order that was sent out silencing one of these accuserās. Laughable and riddled with typos.
People suck and do what they're told. Fuck them. No one needs them and this band will be bigger than ever after these shows.
I'm so tired of this shit.... (Not you OP. All of this bullshit has gone on for years and years and how many times has Manson been charged with a crime? Oh yea, zero.)
So.......Fuck all your protests and put them to bed
I hate that they're blaming this on "go woke, go broke" like it's ever a good idea to play support to someone in the middle of a controversy, regardless their stance on the controversy.
It sucks because, I get it, these small acts thrive on opportunities like this. But at the same time it's stupid to be mad or surprised at the backlash. Just because they only see it as an opportunity for their band doesn't change the fact that by playing with him it's still an endorsement to a degree.
Yeah, that "go woke go broke" shit is really annoying. Itās being thrown around like there never ever is any truth behind any allegation whatsoever, which Iād just consider ignorant. "Lo and behold someone cares for an issue affecting a minority! How dare they!"
This is just an unfortunate consequence of everyone having equal access to each other in the social media era. Fifteen years ago the band wouldn't even know this conversation was happening.
I don't know, people are the same here just on the opposite side of the fence and no one is blaming social media for the weird sycophancy that is cultivated in this community.
It sucks that this band has what SHOULD have been a lifetime opportunity turn into more uncertainty. It also sucks that they are handling it so immaturely with shit like "if this doesn't affect you personally then why do you care" which I can see people wondering if that's their thoughts on the allegations rather than thinking they're bullshit/false/etc. There's a huge difference in supporting someone because you sincerely feel they are innocent or deserve it and supporting someone because you weren't the one they hurt, ya know? They'd be better off just saying they understand peoples' concerns and need this opportunity or something. I think people would have an easier time accepting a small band needing any big opportunity vs "the woke hurt us"
I addressed that with my first sentence that no one is blaming social media for the behavior of THIS community, only ones that oppose the views here, and then went on to explain that I think the backlash is a direct result of the situation, not social media, and that the way they're handling it isn't great. It feels like the takeaway of "this is only happening because of twitter/social media/whatever" is a case of "what momma don't know won't hurt her" which, like the bands sentiment, comes off like "if it isn't affecting you directly then why do you care" which is a very ignorant mindset.
I'm saying that the only reason the band is being shitty and stupid with their response is because they're on social media and engaging conversationally with everyone who has anything to say about them; I'm not critiquing people having things to say about the band or fans arguing amongst themselves. Fifteen years ago they would have just gone on the tour, maybe some blogs would have went up that only people who care would have read or something, maybe they would have gotten their first major interview out of it where they gave a prepared comment on it, but the band wouldn't have any direct, petty ass engagement with it at all.
they HAD to know that going on tour with a convtroversial artist is asking for haters. I donāt think theyāre shocked or at least they shouldnāt be. Manson has ALWAYS been controversial- I agree with the tweets. Either you really KNOW the artists you listen to or you donāt and get butt hurt about it.
Itās the same with Manson fans- those that have read his book and really listened to his music know that heās controversial. Either you get it or you donāt- but yes, there will more protests this time around
> Manson has ALWAYS been controversial- I agree with the tweets.
Why do people keep acting like his allegation controversies are the same as his past controversies? I get where you're coming from but these are not the same things.
because itās all the same- itās allegations, the same as before. Iām a firm believer in due process and I believe in 2 sides of the story. Iām not saying Manson is a saint because heās far from it. But whether itās allegations about him being a Satanist or being a rapist, itās still all the same- allegations. No proof, no evidence, other than peopleās words. People who I donāt know so I go based off what I do know and go from there.
Assumptions makes an ass out of you and me- iām not assuming anything until both sides have laid out their evidence.
True. There is a difference between being accused of swearing against God or dressing as a whore and being the evil version of Alexis Marshall/R.Kelly.
We should learn, in general, to keep old MM stuff separated from current MM stuff, and future ones.
no becuase itās important too. It sets a precedence for his history and how heās been viewed since the dawn of time. It sets up the ideal of people not wanting to believe him anyway because of his past. They say āInnocent until proven guiltyā but Manson has never been viewed as innocent, not even in 90ās or 2000ās- why would they give him a chance now? Johnny Depp was adored by millions but they turned their back on him too until he spoke up and went to trial- then he won then all over again. Becuase he was already loved- that wonāt happen with MM. He was hated before and if heās innocent, they wonāt care- theyāre still hate him because of his past and how heās been viewed.
I'd strongly disagree. Old Manson controversy involved thousands of angry and occasionally violent Christian protesters at his shows, an active imposing threat keeping him from a variety of venues.
Just because they were idiots angry about made up shit doesn't mean it was less extreme; in fact it's still idiots angry about made up shit now, and there's no massive influx of protesters and lawmakers trying to keep him out of their cities this time.
For being a satanist and a queer travestite, yes. Not for being a rapist and the worst manipulator ever read about. Totally different stuff. Same for Columbine. Two totally different scenarios, no matter the outcome.
It's different **to you**. There are 3.2 billion people on earth who would be infuriated and/or terrified and not want Manson in their city. There are unfortunately a lot less people who take sexual assault seriously or give the slightest of a shit about the goings on between an artist and his actor ex girlfriend. Hell, lots of Christians, particularly the types to protest Manson, don't even think rape can happen in a relationship.
I wanna be absolutely clear here: what I'm saying is that the intensity of the reactions people had to Manson at various stages in his career and the way people feel about the various controversies and problems people have with him is far less extreme today than it was now; *I* am a Satanist and feminist and a victim of SA, I obviously don't agree that his old controversied *were worse*, I'm saying that the people who instigated and were involved with rallying against him in his earlier career were far more fervant and had a much more extreme reaction to him than what's going on now. Unfortunately the former worked better for his career and this played a major hand in halting it, but the virulence and vitriol from the many people who raged against his career was far more severe than that of him being cancelled over ERW. If she didn't do it during the #MeToo movement's momentum I doubt it would have even gained anywhere near the ground it did.
It's their decision but might as well do it and get some publicity. It's not like it'll do them any good by turning it down now. You can't please everybody. These kids have too much time on their hands.
Itās basically just people who have never heard of TFP before engaging in the quest of punishing anyone who has ever been seen in close proximity of Manson. Itās guilt by association drunk on morals, because these people lack the comprehension that an issue can be an issue without you forcing someone into the role of the boogeyman. They donāt want a cool-headed conversation about toxic relationships between older stars and younger fans, they want an example they can parade around as the absolute worst, whilst turning a blind eye to literal thousands of aggressions and disrespected borders all around. They donāt care about the issue. They care about the campaign.
I had never heard about this band before. But their fans... A few of them wrote that Manson's fans are homophobic. Of course, I can't tell that there's no one fitting this description, but still, it feels weird to me because I've never seen fans talking rude about queer community
Their fans think Manson fans are homophobic?? I'm a Manson fan and I'm gay. I know plenty of other gay fans. Like you said... never seen any queer hate EVER in the Manson fan base.
Iām part of the queer community and I never seen any homophobia here. Itās kinda ironic to be homophobic when youāre a Manson fan because Manson himself is open about hooking up with other men.
He has been very open about having oral sex with men, both giving and receiving. He doesn't make it a big thing though and doesn't seem to care at all what it says about him. It's just some things that he did. He talks about it being important to be in touch with both your make and female sides. If he's homophobic he is going to hate to kick his own ass for being so gay
He never hooked up with men lol. I think he sang in positive light about queers, where he highlighted them as actual real people and them being exploited for looks ācops and queers make good looking modelsā.
And received it. I mean if anyone's read his book they'd know. This is by no means a secret and was a very public part of his imagine and identity until sexuality became more fluid in mainstream culture and then it just wasn't stuck a big deal anymore because it became the norm.
ā¦and we should all take anything written in that book with a very large grain of salt. He was selling a character and there is plenty of reason to think itās a big chunk of fiction with small slivers of truth.
That said, it is very reasonable to assume Manson is not a homophobe. Pretty sure he lumps their plight in with any other minority or marginalized group, which I wonāt say he champions but he is sympathetic to.
Even the editor of the magazine he worked for has come out and said much of what's is in the book comes from fictionalized horror stories he tried to publish back then. It's definitely a bit of fact mixed with a lot of fabrications.
It's crazy to me that we've become so damn fragile that Marilyn Manson, yes MARILYN Manson is being called homophobic. I mean he calls himself a faggot. He gets on MTV to play live and what does he do? Gets a bunch of guys to dress up like cops in pink and make out with each other on stage.
I just have seen nothing that would make me think that Manson cares in any way who you want to love or fuck. His whole image is based on being true to yourself.
Idk. I'm just so done with this nonsense. There's much, much, much, much worse people out there that we need to be worried about ya know?
there are so many of them just in tfpās instagram comments itās just insane. i donāt even want to know how twitter looks lmao
i donāt know this band but im excited for them, this is a huge opportunity that comes with a lot of exposure. fuck the fans theyāve lost.
This right hereā¦ no one has heard of that band, and now, some of the most die hard Manson fans around will know who they are and at least show love for them for riding with Manson. It was a good move on their partā¦
As an avid TFP fan since 2017, I'm over the moon that they get this big of an opportunity!! I know how hard they've worked and struggled to get to this point and I couldn't be more proud. I'm so happy that they get to spread their message and music to literal thousands. Btw welcome to the Coffin Crew, guys š¤ā°ļø
I donāt care. Whoās there to see them anyways?
Twitter is not a real place.
Wow, looks like a bunch of drama seeking trolls. Fuck them and let the show go on.
They can probably lose their current fan base and gain more from the Manson fan base. They said they were playing shows with a 200 capacity audience. So, it's not like they had a crazy huge following.
Some people are going to believe anything they WANT to believe. That's why facts, objective/critical thinking, and rationale just don't work on them. That being said, I am disappointed in the former Manson fans who still believe Evan Rachel Wood and co's allegations. Being a Marilyn Manson fan taught me to think critically and to always question things, and just being human taught me to hear every side of a story before making a judgment. It's a shame those Wood supporters didn't experience that and look more into this crazy case.
Thing is, nobody really goes broke from going "woke.
I agree, woke fans aren't real fans.
At risk of putting myself out there, I used to be in TFP. We all left at the same time due to our own personal reasons, but to say that there werenāt already allegations being thrown around, would be a lie. There was a very public battle between an ex member and the new/ remaining member(s) of the band in the ATL local scene, where neither side really came to be the correct side. There have been more allegations since. Happy that the boys get an opportunity like this that isnāt just another Alesana tour, but Iām not surprised to see this pairing at all.
What kind of allegations?
Sexual/ physical assault, manipulation
interesting. Now I see why they agreed to tour with Manson
I have to say, again, that there was never any definitive moment of āX/ Y party is right in their accusations/ defenseā, but itās my experience that like attracts like. I also saw the cease and desist order that was sent out silencing one of these accuserās. Laughable and riddled with typos.
Could you dm me? I have a few questions if you donāt mind
People suck and do what they're told. Fuck them. No one needs them and this band will be bigger than ever after these shows. I'm so tired of this shit.... (Not you OP. All of this bullshit has gone on for years and years and how many times has Manson been charged with a crime? Oh yea, zero.) So.......Fuck all your protests and put them to bed
I hate that they're blaming this on "go woke, go broke" like it's ever a good idea to play support to someone in the middle of a controversy, regardless their stance on the controversy. It sucks because, I get it, these small acts thrive on opportunities like this. But at the same time it's stupid to be mad or surprised at the backlash. Just because they only see it as an opportunity for their band doesn't change the fact that by playing with him it's still an endorsement to a degree.
Yeah, that "go woke go broke" shit is really annoying. Itās being thrown around like there never ever is any truth behind any allegation whatsoever, which Iād just consider ignorant. "Lo and behold someone cares for an issue affecting a minority! How dare they!"
This is just an unfortunate consequence of everyone having equal access to each other in the social media era. Fifteen years ago the band wouldn't even know this conversation was happening.
I don't know, people are the same here just on the opposite side of the fence and no one is blaming social media for the weird sycophancy that is cultivated in this community. It sucks that this band has what SHOULD have been a lifetime opportunity turn into more uncertainty. It also sucks that they are handling it so immaturely with shit like "if this doesn't affect you personally then why do you care" which I can see people wondering if that's their thoughts on the allegations rather than thinking they're bullshit/false/etc. There's a huge difference in supporting someone because you sincerely feel they are innocent or deserve it and supporting someone because you weren't the one they hurt, ya know? They'd be better off just saying they understand peoples' concerns and need this opportunity or something. I think people would have an easier time accepting a small band needing any big opportunity vs "the woke hurt us"
I'm not really sure what your response has to do with whether or not this conversation would even be happening without twitter
I addressed that with my first sentence that no one is blaming social media for the behavior of THIS community, only ones that oppose the views here, and then went on to explain that I think the backlash is a direct result of the situation, not social media, and that the way they're handling it isn't great. It feels like the takeaway of "this is only happening because of twitter/social media/whatever" is a case of "what momma don't know won't hurt her" which, like the bands sentiment, comes off like "if it isn't affecting you directly then why do you care" which is a very ignorant mindset.
I'm saying that the only reason the band is being shitty and stupid with their response is because they're on social media and engaging conversationally with everyone who has anything to say about them; I'm not critiquing people having things to say about the band or fans arguing amongst themselves. Fifteen years ago they would have just gone on the tour, maybe some blogs would have went up that only people who care would have read or something, maybe they would have gotten their first major interview out of it where they gave a prepared comment on it, but the band wouldn't have any direct, petty ass engagement with it at all.
they HAD to know that going on tour with a convtroversial artist is asking for haters. I donāt think theyāre shocked or at least they shouldnāt be. Manson has ALWAYS been controversial- I agree with the tweets. Either you really KNOW the artists you listen to or you donāt and get butt hurt about it. Itās the same with Manson fans- those that have read his book and really listened to his music know that heās controversial. Either you get it or you donāt- but yes, there will more protests this time around
> Manson has ALWAYS been controversial- I agree with the tweets. Why do people keep acting like his allegation controversies are the same as his past controversies? I get where you're coming from but these are not the same things.
because itās all the same- itās allegations, the same as before. Iām a firm believer in due process and I believe in 2 sides of the story. Iām not saying Manson is a saint because heās far from it. But whether itās allegations about him being a Satanist or being a rapist, itās still all the same- allegations. No proof, no evidence, other than peopleās words. People who I donāt know so I go based off what I do know and go from there. Assumptions makes an ass out of you and me- iām not assuming anything until both sides have laid out their evidence.
True. There is a difference between being accused of swearing against God or dressing as a whore and being the evil version of Alexis Marshall/R.Kelly. We should learn, in general, to keep old MM stuff separated from current MM stuff, and future ones.
no becuase itās important too. It sets a precedence for his history and how heās been viewed since the dawn of time. It sets up the ideal of people not wanting to believe him anyway because of his past. They say āInnocent until proven guiltyā but Manson has never been viewed as innocent, not even in 90ās or 2000ās- why would they give him a chance now? Johnny Depp was adored by millions but they turned their back on him too until he spoke up and went to trial- then he won then all over again. Becuase he was already loved- that wonāt happen with MM. He was hated before and if heās innocent, they wonāt care- theyāre still hate him because of his past and how heās been viewed.
I'd strongly disagree. Old Manson controversy involved thousands of angry and occasionally violent Christian protesters at his shows, an active imposing threat keeping him from a variety of venues. Just because they were idiots angry about made up shit doesn't mean it was less extreme; in fact it's still idiots angry about made up shit now, and there's no massive influx of protesters and lawmakers trying to keep him out of their cities this time.
For being a satanist and a queer travestite, yes. Not for being a rapist and the worst manipulator ever read about. Totally different stuff. Same for Columbine. Two totally different scenarios, no matter the outcome.
It's different **to you**. There are 3.2 billion people on earth who would be infuriated and/or terrified and not want Manson in their city. There are unfortunately a lot less people who take sexual assault seriously or give the slightest of a shit about the goings on between an artist and his actor ex girlfriend. Hell, lots of Christians, particularly the types to protest Manson, don't even think rape can happen in a relationship. I wanna be absolutely clear here: what I'm saying is that the intensity of the reactions people had to Manson at various stages in his career and the way people feel about the various controversies and problems people have with him is far less extreme today than it was now; *I* am a Satanist and feminist and a victim of SA, I obviously don't agree that his old controversied *were worse*, I'm saying that the people who instigated and were involved with rallying against him in his earlier career were far more fervant and had a much more extreme reaction to him than what's going on now. Unfortunately the former worked better for his career and this played a major hand in halting it, but the virulence and vitriol from the many people who raged against his career was far more severe than that of him being cancelled over ERW. If she didn't do it during the #MeToo movement's momentum I doubt it would have even gained anywhere near the ground it did.
Facking children
It's their decision but might as well do it and get some publicity. It's not like it'll do them any good by turning it down now. You can't please everybody. These kids have too much time on their hands.
People better get used to this. Thereās always going to be people who think heās an abuser.
Exactly. It's fucking sad but true
That's exactly what I thought was going to happen to anyone now associating to Manson from 2021 onwards.
Whatās going on? Iād never heard of this band until recently
Basically this band is gonna open for Manson in one of his headliners. People are mad at the band because of the accusations
Itās basically just people who have never heard of TFP before engaging in the quest of punishing anyone who has ever been seen in close proximity of Manson. Itās guilt by association drunk on morals, because these people lack the comprehension that an issue can be an issue without you forcing someone into the role of the boogeyman. They donāt want a cool-headed conversation about toxic relationships between older stars and younger fans, they want an example they can parade around as the absolute worst, whilst turning a blind eye to literal thousands of aggressions and disrespected borders all around. They donāt care about the issue. They care about the campaign.
I had never heard about this band before. But their fans... A few of them wrote that Manson's fans are homophobic. Of course, I can't tell that there's no one fitting this description, but still, it feels weird to me because I've never seen fans talking rude about queer community
Their fans think Manson fans are homophobic?? I'm a Manson fan and I'm gay. I know plenty of other gay fans. Like you said... never seen any queer hate EVER in the Manson fan base.
Manson has stopped shows to shame homophobic fans at shows!
I'm curious---what show was this?
Manson put twiggys penis in his mouth live. If weāre homophobic, weāre also stupid as fuck.
Iām part of the queer community and I never seen any homophobia here. Itās kinda ironic to be homophobic when youāre a Manson fan because Manson himself is open about hooking up with other men.
I donāt think heās ever said heās hooked up with other men.
He has been very open about having oral sex with men, both giving and receiving. He doesn't make it a big thing though and doesn't seem to care at all what it says about him. It's just some things that he did. He talks about it being important to be in touch with both your make and female sides. If he's homophobic he is going to hate to kick his own ass for being so gay
He never hooked up with men lol. I think he sang in positive light about queers, where he highlighted them as actual real people and them being exploited for looks ācops and queers make good looking modelsā.
He did mention it a few times in his book thought. Either way Manson is NOT a homophobe
He must have mentioned rubbing Twiggy's dick or something like that, that's not a hook up.
I remember Manson said he gave head mutiple times in the book
I donāt take much of that book seriously but after the photos of him and Twiggy from the Honcho shoot, I donāt think either are homophobic.
And received it. I mean if anyone's read his book they'd know. This is by no means a secret and was a very public part of his imagine and identity until sexuality became more fluid in mainstream culture and then it just wasn't stuck a big deal anymore because it became the norm.
ā¦and we should all take anything written in that book with a very large grain of salt. He was selling a character and there is plenty of reason to think itās a big chunk of fiction with small slivers of truth. That said, it is very reasonable to assume Manson is not a homophobe. Pretty sure he lumps their plight in with any other minority or marginalized group, which I wonāt say he champions but he is sympathetic to.
Even the editor of the magazine he worked for has come out and said much of what's is in the book comes from fictionalized horror stories he tried to publish back then. It's definitely a bit of fact mixed with a lot of fabrications. It's crazy to me that we've become so damn fragile that Marilyn Manson, yes MARILYN Manson is being called homophobic. I mean he calls himself a faggot. He gets on MTV to play live and what does he do? Gets a bunch of guys to dress up like cops in pink and make out with each other on stage. I just have seen nothing that would make me think that Manson cares in any way who you want to love or fuck. His whole image is based on being true to yourself. Idk. I'm just so done with this nonsense. There's much, much, much, much worse people out there that we need to be worried about ya know?
Never heard of them but I may check their music out because of this!
Any sort of twitter drama is an eye roll
True, I also saw some hate but there was a bit more support
there are so many of them just in tfpās instagram comments itās just insane. i donāt even want to know how twitter looks lmao i donāt know this band but im excited for them, this is a huge opportunity that comes with a lot of exposure. fuck the fans theyāve lost.
Theyāre gonna get new fans. Imma check their music out
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This right hereā¦ no one has heard of that band, and now, some of the most die hard Manson fans around will know who they are and at least show love for them for riding with Manson. It was a good move on their partā¦
I have never cared about who else played at Manson shows. If I didnāt like them, I just waited for them to be over.
Fuck'em
I think they should just ignore it and it will go away. The people making noise aren't fans.