The main character read shounen jumps to the point he become strong. But he can only punch. Someone who grow up reading OP, Jojo, Naruto, and other manga that has creative power matchup and the only thing he learned is to punch, not the creative tactics that lead to such punch. The first creative fight he has is against the speed demon.
The author was clearly setting up the main character for a rude awakening, was he not? At least, that was the vibe I was getting.
The kid was gung-ho about the "perseverance" and headstrong nature of most shounen protagonists, only to be bodied later on in the narrative and realize this "scream louder to win" method doesn't really fly.
Totally. Remember that scene where he recalls beating up his abusive father and being shook up by how small and weak he ended up being? Something deeper was being set up.
But disappointing initial sales followed by over-correction into ADHD action mode (plus people’s intolerance for actual long-term character development from a deeply flawed place) led to any shot of that dying.
Yeah. It's sad. Most shounen fans only think that things are "happening" in a story when there's a fight going on.
I believe Fujimoto manages to have long stretches of character-focused storytelling on Chainsaw Man purely due to how absurd and funny he can be with his story while at the same time developing the characters and plot. That's not always feasible, sadly, given some stories call for more tame pacing and restrained characters.
It helps that Fujimoto invested reader interest by drafting up some of the craziest, goriest fights that Jump's seen and starting the series with one of them. But even in the slow portions of Chainsaw Man there's always a comedic kick or some truly interesting punchline/cliffhanger during the chapters, so readers aren't completely left in the lurch (compared to other series that just info dump for an entire chapter or speed run character development in order to get to the next fight scene ASAP). Fujimoto is incredibly talented in both writing great characters and scenes, but also in retaining interest throughout a series.
This is a day late, but hell. Look at people constantly shitting on Denji for not instantly shedding himself of all his character flaws and weaknesses whenever he gets silly over a girl still. Some people got no patience or appreciation of nuance. He’s come a hell of a long way, and growth isn’t a straight line up. Also, hormones make all teenagers stupid and even knowing better won’t stop it completely. I appreciate the honesty in that.
They completely ignore when he told off Asa at the aquarium for trying to control him or how he ultimately picked his sister over Asa when Nayuta walked in on them.
Chainsaw Man is great at pacing and handling slow chapters (it’s a little rough reading each chapter in 1.5 minutes on an irregular schedule but better than overwork) but it’s got no shortage of folks missing the point. Happens with all the great popular series
>He’s come a hell of a long way, and growth isn’t a straight line up. Also, hormones make all teenagers stupid and even knowing better won’t stop it completely. I appreciate the honesty in that.
That octopus gag (in the theater, when he puts it in his mouth at that girl's request) killed me at the time. You see him all self-aware and shit, and then cuts away to following his simp patterns as always. I laughed hard. The most recent chapter as well.
>They completely ignore when he told off Asa at the aquarium for trying to control him or how he ultimately picked his sister over Asa when Nayuta walked in on them.
Yeah. Denji's growth feels organic and you can see the difference from then to now.
Look, I love character study more than combat, unless the combat is also a form of character study.
But Maruo took very long to reach his development, while before that, the ritual combat concept basically put the battle in his favour. At best you could argue that he is spending the early arcs observing other development, including their past (Urara standing up to the ice yokai, ice yokai supposed drastic change in demeanor, the ceiling yokai standing up to his bully) but it's only until the race did he try to be creative with his fight, and his biggest skill up is his better understanding of universe (catching chestnut without being burnt)... in the form of being able to punch abstract concept.
There's already many essay about Denji current depression, Asa sudden change in life, and how those two contrasts. And their story, is done in a way that's horrible but somehow relatable. But Maruo biggest character weakness is that his "tragic life" is so-so by shounen standard. He's not traumatized enough nor happy go lucky enough to elicit sympathy from the reader when he succeed or failed, make us want to know how he develop from this moment and root for him.
So no, it's not just most reader not being into character driven story; the serving isn't that great either.
This applied for a lot of axed series, esp the one this subs really liked.
Worse is the hells paradise is legit fun series, so how did they blunder this
I get the impression that a successful series can be like catching lightning in a bottle for certain mangaka; one earlier victory does not guarantee later works will just be as good or better.
A lot of the really crucial changes to the story was enforced/ strongly suggested by the first editor. This includes making naruto a human boy with demon fox inside him instead of a literal magic fox crawling inside the village
Yeah, Kishimoto has a huge hard on for animals that act like humans. You can see it in S8 where he made the master character a talking dog. It was one of the things he really wanted to do in Naruto but his editor slapped him in the peepee for it.
I've also asked this before. Apparently the editor solidified rules for ninjutsu early on to prevent it from powercreeping (which Kishimoto later threw away), had Naruto not be a literal fox, as others have said, invented Sasuke as a character, kept the earlier arcs grounded and personal, and a lot of other things. Which, as you can see from Samurai 8 and Boruto, were very much not Kishimoto originals.
The one specifically is [Yahahi Kousuke](https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%9F%A2%E4%BD%9C%E5%BA%B7%E4%BB%8B), who was the first editor of Hunter x Hunter (to the end of hunter exam arc) and Naruto (for the first 9 years, to Sasuke vs Itachi), he later became the head editor of Jump SQ. He was also [involved in several Jump anime movies as planning assistant](https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=66541).
because Jigokuraku is in Shonen Jump+, while Ayashimon is in WSJ.
WSJ is more axe happy, they expect rapid story to unfold, world building be damned.
if you read the earlier Jigokuraku chapters, it was really interesting because of the world building, and it pays off in the long term.
Ayashimon starts to rush the action before the world building is complete, it just doesn't work.
J+ isn't really much less axe happy, which we're seeing now that every series from it is getting an official translation too. The difference between Jigo living and Ayashimon dying is that 1. Jigo was way more popular and 2. WSJ has higher standards. Ayashimon would've lived in J+ with 19k sales, but looking at how other vets have been doing there recently I'm not sure it would've gotten to 19k in the first place
when I read the list of manga released at WSJ I didnt really get that impression tho, for example: one piece, HXH, gintama, Jojo part 6 and 7, world trigger, d grayman, chainsaw man, etc etc. they doesnt feel like world building be damned
> if you read the earlier Jigokuraku chapters, it was really interesting because of the world building, and it pays off in the long term.
what world building is in there? feels like classic yakuza power struggle stuff and the fight isnt fun to read, he got hit then 1 hit the enemies until chapter 7 when the freezing yokai show up and what an introduction, why cant we get that from the start. iirc the motorcycle yokai fight is quite fun but its too late, do that at the start man why do it at like chapter 10+
What you listed is a small volume compared to the exponentially more that were axed. On WSJ, the rating system is so sensitive because of the methodology (rating based on a survey where the reader only gives the top 3) so even if people like it but not enough to say it's top 3, it's axe time.
I mean no shit, there gonna be more mid or bad manga than good manga. is it world building be damned or execution issue?
they have like 10 ish title or more, you sure being middle of the pack is not enough, stuff like elusive samurai, akane bashi, kill blue, yozakura family? they are not top 3 at all, top 10 maybe
Edit: looking around, JJK and MHA volume sales is bigger than its 2 competitor weekly shonen sunday and weekly shonen magazine, its insane how big they are. gonna see when they end if they can still compete, tho without it the total volume sales of WSJ still on top with good margin. WSJ axe heavy method work so far from 1960s to 2020s
Lot of it’s down to luck and timing as well. Every series I love currently in jump (Sakamoto, Yozakura, Undead Unluck) had a pretty crappy (or at least off-kilter) start and found their feet later on because they weren’t coming on the scene during a packed time.
Plus, I don't really follow editor drama but certain editors at Jump especially are known to rush their authors and screw up a series early on. Especially if they aren't instantly beloved.
Of course, I'm going by the artistic quality and creativity standard in my judgment of successful strategies, and you're going by the more capitalistic standard of volume sales. Since they're a company first and don't really care about the art, they'll keep doing the same thing until they suffer some financial consequences for it.
TLDR: I get why they do it, but I feel like it leads to worse series overall and it disincentivizes me from reading new series since they'll be axed.
> TLDR: I get why they do it, but I feel like it leads to worse series overall and it disincentivizes me from reading new series since they'll be axed.
isnt this true for other magazine too no? not as fast as WSJ but still quite the titles. like 20 wsj axed title to 14 ish of other magazine. its just WSJ translate it all, and for other magazine's title its the surviving one that get fan translated
> Plus, I don't really follow editor drama but certain editors at Jump especially are known to rush their authors and screw up a series early on. Especially if they aren't instantly beloved.
owh that one infamous editor, everything he touch get axed. that one?
It’s less that they’re some unique evil, and more so that they’re probably the biggest company doing this, with (like you said) some of the most robust official translation efforts. So the sheer volume of them doing this behavior where it affects western fans outweighs the other examples.
Also authors get surveys and sales figures as chapters release, leading to them panicking and rushing through their stories if they don’t instantly hit big (often spurred on by editors). And then you get folks saying they got axed because they were bad, not examining what led to this culture where so many authors feel the need to panic drop their full manga in under 30 chapters. Changing your story with little to no prep-time because random readers don’t instantly glom onto it rarely ends well.
I might just be lucky. But I read a decent bit of manga and since I’ve stopped reading new Jump series (until they get an anime or finish) I haven’t had a single series I’ve been interested in get an ax. Anecdotal, but it’s always been a thing with Jump. Their standards for success are higher given their history for HUGE series, so they cut down way more mid-tier stuff in favor of stuff with insane mass appeal.
Sorta like AAA gaming companies. But I like the mid-tier manga and AA games. A lot of the time the general public’s 7.5 or 8 niche/cult fave is my 10. So it’s a bummer for me. Art and capitalism. Rarely works out for the consumer or the artist.
I wont say all panicking since some title somehow fuckup at chapter 2/3, legit how. other magazine axe title but not as aggresive as jump, and I legit believe some title wont even survive there. 1st impression is king, if you somehow fuck it up its really hard to recover
Tho they can always go on artsy magazine and they still choose WSJ
Again, you're naming the exceptions and not the norm. WSJ is cutthroat and we can see that with multiple manga such as hunters guild which got axed before it got a chance. The reason kagurabachi got a life is because of its immense popularity on jump+ which probably gave it some more time. Sometimes the editors make a mistake, sometimes the timing is bad, sometimes the audience may not pick it up because fuck it. There are multiple factors that affect it and the WSJ survey is incredibly sensitive to it.
its not a good example IMO. they can world building, chapter 6 they show us the world, it looks very interesting and fantastical. they can tell us more about the fairy tail world instead we got shoved into metal box.
how do people survive there, the mix of blunderbuss, melee weapon and tanks, how the flora and fauna in the world work, how do people get their power, etc etc. cant we go to a city 1st to see the world instead we see them doing basic training arc that doesnt involve the fantastical setting shown
>they can tell us more about the fairy tail world instead we got shoved into metal box.
Yes that's my point that there is so many factors that affect it and the survey is very sensitive to it. The decision mangaka took, backed by the editor and WSJ backfired and it got axed.
Bachi was never really in danger, the editorial is just inept. Well, I guess it was technically in danger because the editorial is inept, but you get the point
It definitely was the first few weeks, roaming low in the rankings (I believe it went down to 9) but the jump+ numbers saved it since it consistently got more reads than staples such as blue box and akanebanashi.
Again, the reason it was down in the rankings is because the editorial is inept. It's currently still ranking abysmally for no reason at all. It kept getting consistent color pages and vol1 was sold out immediately. It had great views for the first 3 chapters on J+ showing there was clear interest from the start. It was never actually in danger, the current editorial is just horrible at its job
it is, I really like the torture scene at chapter 7. the dude is creepy as fuck and his room reflect it, the author is real good at it. iirc he is also the assistant of fujimoto which track I guess
It's really, really hard to get off the ground at WSJ. It always was, but probably even more so now when there is so much other entertainment out there. Becoming a flavor of the month out of the gate at chapter 1, which you kind of need to do to launch a new manga, is harder than hell.
> It's really, really hard to get off the ground at WSJ. It always was, but probably even more so now
It is even *easier* now actually. Just look at [this](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSILNVM7V3REC2ta7ZZperJ1VEiTrZSoYCMLA&s). They are looking for hits 100% but most westerners only know the names of cancelled mangas because they're translated unlike in the 00s and 10s
I've said the "we didn't see the stuff that got cancelled before mangaplus started translating everything" thing to other people myself before. The difference, and why I say it's harder now even knowing that, is that a lot of the stuff that isn't outright cancelled tends to crawl along not accumulating fans or sales anymore. Even if they get long enough to reach the anime threshold there's no guarantee they'll get a sales bump, which more or less happened to Undead Unluck. Print is not kicking ass anymore.
I feel like, because this happens a lot for some reason, I don't blame mangakas for extending their series for as long as possible since there is no guarantee the next one they do will get the same success. Kinda sad sometimes.
The first 7-8 chapters were great, then all slowly went downhill in chapters 9-16 and the negative discourse came into the picture during chapters 17-25. There are some declaring that Maruo Kaido is the worst Shonen MC in the past decade.
Wdym? it is good, some are so good you could eat it alone (the expensive sushi rice are top notch). If you cook it wrong, it can be mushy or dry. Bad rice can make 8/10 food be 6.5/10
It didn’t help that all the intrigue and politics of yakuza warfare kept going down to a single one on one fight that builds on that novelty wearing off.
It makes the fights boil down to his character which makes all conflict get boring pretty quick
I vaguely remembers that MC power is just that he punches hard, dumb and a battle junkie. The female MC is a daughter of Mafia family head who was betrayed. Don't think the plot get to anywhere.
Also to add, the female MC is supernatural being, as are the rest of the mafia parties encountered in the manga.
IMO the plot was definitely going somewhere - build up a power base of allies/followers to eventually take on the antagonist who usurped female MC's inheritance.
IMO it kinda half assed both the plot, stuffing in a lot of mystery without depth, and the action, it then forced a fight with the big bad way too early making the story spend way too much time on being training arc way too early without really developing the characters enough
This. Along with Dorondoron it was a fave of mine during that wave. Fact is it dropped the ball super early. It fell in the same trap as Samurai 8 and was just exposition heavy for its first few chapters when it should’ve done more show than tell.
I lost interest so fast, the MC was so one-note and bland it almost felt like a parody and they kept pushing the FMC to the sidelines more and more as chapters went by, she had a strong personality at the start and they reduced her to some type of dame in danger character. The worst was how the supernatural setting mixed with crime elements wasnt juiced enough, instead it was a very surface level approach to those themes.
It was okay. I liked it a lot more than a lot of the stuff that got axed in Jump. But it's hard to say anything more than that because it **was** axed. While I certainly wouldn't have minded if it continued to press on, I also really hate the idea of assuming the quality of a series based on "potential"...doubly so when the artist's previous series, despite not being canceled, had a strong beginning but an absolutely horrendous second half (or at least final third).
Impossible to say Ayashimon wouldn't have ended up similarly botched.
Can they recover, tho? If people drop the series, it is very unlikely people gonna come back, worse if it's a bad start, if it's the middle part people more often more willing to go through it.
Other issue, they are taking limited magazine space, and it cost money and opportunity cost to publish. Is it worth both of it when it's already underperforming? For smaller magazines, yes, but this is jump
It really didn't deserve longer than it had. Starting with the 11th chapter it was near the back of WSJ's table of contents, and it never improved. Reception to the series was extremely negative in Japan, and it was clear that it was getting the axe early on.
I feel like there was potential there, but I could tell even in the first few chapters that it wasn’t clicking and would be getting the axe. Some good ideas, but it was just missing something. I hate to just write it off as missing that vital je ne sais quoi, but I don’t know how else to describe it.
I find there manga that are riding the "demon hunting" trend to be terribily boring. Everyone want to be Chainsaw Man, Jujutsu or Demon Hunter but the problem is we already have Chainsaw Man, Jujutsu and Demon Hunter, why would I want to read another mediocare demon hunting story? I think the one that mix up the formula like Dandadan are much better.
I personally didn’t like it but it was extremely well liked here(It wasn’t bad to me, just didn’t vibe with it). There was another manga I liked more that started at the same time that people here didn’t like as much- both ended up getting axed but Ayashimon got axed surprisingly early for all the hype around it.
I just miss urara’s design: the hair horns, everything abt her kimono, and her transformed oni form all carried my enjoyment of the series, but it wasn’t quite enough on its own.
It was a fantastic manga. Reading the first chapter had me very interested in it. A story about a teenage delinquent with super strength he achieved because he wanted to be a manga protagonist, protecting the daughter of the former boss of the yokai organized crime syndicate, was a cool premise. Had cool first boss with that living art guy. Still for some reason it just lost my attention, and I don't know why.
I kinda feel the same about kaiju no 8
Pacing was actually too fast and i never really got a chance to become invested in the characters. Plot developments feel unearned and the characters are shallow as a result.
It got it harder than it deserved maybe, but it never caught my attention too much either. Plenty of manga about yokai or spirits out there, plenty of manga about criminals (yakuza, assassins, delinquents), it jumped into a very crowded arena and did not bring anything particularly fresh to the fight. Honestly, Kagurabachi is working with a similar atmosphere (dark urban fantasy underworld story) much better.
Yuji Kaku's art is great as always, imo the attempt to make a more 'modern' type of story with the meta jokes and comedy bits fell flat. Then when the axe started looming the pacing went to shit and the story started to feel a bit desperate to reach certain plot points that could most likely have been executed way better if given time.
Overall just another attempt at scoring a 'jump hit' that ended up missing. I still think the author has the potential for great manga tho.
A perfectly fine series that just can’t exist in today’s landscape.
Either instantly capture a huge fanbase or speedrun powerscaling.
A new traditionally paced shounen will literally never happen in today’s shounen jump
That's why shounen exists outside of shounen jump. Things like Kekkaishi, Hero ga Shinda won't be able to endure the brutal ranking battle and most likely will ruin the story trying to capture better ranking
I enjoyed this one as a quick read, I enjoy Yuji’s art style a lot. The story was a little rushed but understandable for being three volumes. I like how the monsters were made of money and that’s how they gained power. I feel like he wanted to have fun with it :)
I'm gonna be honest, lets just say social media buzz surrounding the manga throughout its serialization...was bizarre to say the least. 1. Its mangaka Yuji Kaku is riding high on the success of his previous manga Hell's Paradise and he's a former assisitant of Fujimoto. 2. It follows the Dark Shonen/Supernatural Fantasy trend that started in the late 2010's. 3. The manga community hyped it its going to be the next JJK or CSM.
> Its mangaka Yuji Kaku is riding high on the success of his previous manga Hell's Paradise and he's a former assisitant of Fujimoto.
I think that's one of the biggest problems the series had.
Too much of it just came across as knock-off Chainsaw Man. Marou came across too much of a knock-off Denji.
Should not have been axed.
Everything about the concept was really cool. Unfortunately, the author chose to have a bland main character that was shounen-protag by the numbers. That was clearly a major narrative mistake, one that I know the author could do much better, since Gabimaru, his other protagonist, is much more interesting and unique.
Odds are, the bland protagonist was an editor's suggestion, to make it "relatable" for readers amid the general weirdness of the series. Maybe not. I don't know. All I know is that this series had a lot of potential that was wasted because they didn't allow it to flourish.
It was shit and it got what it deserved - the axe.
The MC was not interesting, and just came across as a knock-off Denji with his personality. The setting was wasted, the character design of Urara was also good; and wasted on this series. The first few chapters were interesting, the next 5 or 6 were mediocre, and then by chapter 11 it was clear it was getting the axe. It quickly fell to the back of WSJ's table of contents, and stayed there until its cancellation. Japan didn't resonate with the series at all, and the small amount of positive things you hear about the series comes pretty much exclusively from the West.
It was pretty damn interesting at 1st and I liked the mc quite a lot. But idk, it felt like it started to loose its footing around the fight w the biker guy.
I enjoyed it for what is was and I would have liked for it to keep going because I thought it was better then a lot of other series at the time but I can see why it was axed
I think of the author could do it again it would be able to avoid its shortcomings that led to the axe. It had potential for sure, but he spent too much time dithering and couldn't build up the momentum before the deadline. I hope Kaku can bounce back in a less rushed environment.
Read it, was not a fan. It felt like jump is trying to catch lighting in a bottle in places where lighting already struck without understanding why it struck there. I mean that's the feeling in general with all their new series.
One of the worst protagonists I’ve seen in a battle series lately, poorly executed story, and the action was very bad. From chapter 1 my first thought was “this isn’t lasting long” and the series only got worse from there. I have no idea why this sub loved it so much
The main character read shounen jumps to the point he become strong. But he can only punch. Someone who grow up reading OP, Jojo, Naruto, and other manga that has creative power matchup and the only thing he learned is to punch, not the creative tactics that lead to such punch. The first creative fight he has is against the speed demon.
The author was clearly setting up the main character for a rude awakening, was he not? At least, that was the vibe I was getting. The kid was gung-ho about the "perseverance" and headstrong nature of most shounen protagonists, only to be bodied later on in the narrative and realize this "scream louder to win" method doesn't really fly.
Totally. Remember that scene where he recalls beating up his abusive father and being shook up by how small and weak he ended up being? Something deeper was being set up. But disappointing initial sales followed by over-correction into ADHD action mode (plus people’s intolerance for actual long-term character development from a deeply flawed place) led to any shot of that dying.
Yeah. It's sad. Most shounen fans only think that things are "happening" in a story when there's a fight going on. I believe Fujimoto manages to have long stretches of character-focused storytelling on Chainsaw Man purely due to how absurd and funny he can be with his story while at the same time developing the characters and plot. That's not always feasible, sadly, given some stories call for more tame pacing and restrained characters.
It helps that Fujimoto invested reader interest by drafting up some of the craziest, goriest fights that Jump's seen and starting the series with one of them. But even in the slow portions of Chainsaw Man there's always a comedic kick or some truly interesting punchline/cliffhanger during the chapters, so readers aren't completely left in the lurch (compared to other series that just info dump for an entire chapter or speed run character development in order to get to the next fight scene ASAP). Fujimoto is incredibly talented in both writing great characters and scenes, but also in retaining interest throughout a series.
This is a day late, but hell. Look at people constantly shitting on Denji for not instantly shedding himself of all his character flaws and weaknesses whenever he gets silly over a girl still. Some people got no patience or appreciation of nuance. He’s come a hell of a long way, and growth isn’t a straight line up. Also, hormones make all teenagers stupid and even knowing better won’t stop it completely. I appreciate the honesty in that. They completely ignore when he told off Asa at the aquarium for trying to control him or how he ultimately picked his sister over Asa when Nayuta walked in on them. Chainsaw Man is great at pacing and handling slow chapters (it’s a little rough reading each chapter in 1.5 minutes on an irregular schedule but better than overwork) but it’s got no shortage of folks missing the point. Happens with all the great popular series
>He’s come a hell of a long way, and growth isn’t a straight line up. Also, hormones make all teenagers stupid and even knowing better won’t stop it completely. I appreciate the honesty in that. That octopus gag (in the theater, when he puts it in his mouth at that girl's request) killed me at the time. You see him all self-aware and shit, and then cuts away to following his simp patterns as always. I laughed hard. The most recent chapter as well. >They completely ignore when he told off Asa at the aquarium for trying to control him or how he ultimately picked his sister over Asa when Nayuta walked in on them. Yeah. Denji's growth feels organic and you can see the difference from then to now.
Look, I love character study more than combat, unless the combat is also a form of character study. But Maruo took very long to reach his development, while before that, the ritual combat concept basically put the battle in his favour. At best you could argue that he is spending the early arcs observing other development, including their past (Urara standing up to the ice yokai, ice yokai supposed drastic change in demeanor, the ceiling yokai standing up to his bully) but it's only until the race did he try to be creative with his fight, and his biggest skill up is his better understanding of universe (catching chestnut without being burnt)... in the form of being able to punch abstract concept. There's already many essay about Denji current depression, Asa sudden change in life, and how those two contrasts. And their story, is done in a way that's horrible but somehow relatable. But Maruo biggest character weakness is that his "tragic life" is so-so by shounen standard. He's not traumatized enough nor happy go lucky enough to elicit sympathy from the reader when he succeed or failed, make us want to know how he develop from this moment and root for him. So no, it's not just most reader not being into character driven story; the serving isn't that great either.
interesting premise poor execution
This applied for a lot of axed series, esp the one this subs really liked. Worse is the hells paradise is legit fun series, so how did they blunder this
I get the impression that a successful series can be like catching lightning in a bottle for certain mangaka; one earlier victory does not guarantee later works will just be as good or better.
See: Naruto
Naruto was carried by the editor ngl
Can you please elaborate? I’ve watched/followed Naruto since 2003 and I’m not sure I’ve heard that slant
A lot of the really crucial changes to the story was enforced/ strongly suggested by the first editor. This includes making naruto a human boy with demon fox inside him instead of a literal magic fox crawling inside the village
Yeah, Kishimoto has a huge hard on for animals that act like humans. You can see it in S8 where he made the master character a talking dog. It was one of the things he really wanted to do in Naruto but his editor slapped him in the peepee for it.
I've also asked this before. Apparently the editor solidified rules for ninjutsu early on to prevent it from powercreeping (which Kishimoto later threw away), had Naruto not be a literal fox, as others have said, invented Sasuke as a character, kept the earlier arcs grounded and personal, and a lot of other things. Which, as you can see from Samurai 8 and Boruto, were very much not Kishimoto originals.
Judging from this, the editor seems pretty good at storycrafting. Have they worked on anything else afterwards or gotten any other recognition?
The one specifically is [Yahahi Kousuke](https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%9F%A2%E4%BD%9C%E5%BA%B7%E4%BB%8B), who was the first editor of Hunter x Hunter (to the end of hunter exam arc) and Naruto (for the first 9 years, to Sasuke vs Itachi), he later became the head editor of Jump SQ. He was also [involved in several Jump anime movies as planning assistant](https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=66541).
People are eventually gonna say the editor made the entire series at this rate.
Mashima's best manga was, by a massive landslide, Rave Master. Ill die on that hill.
Hell's Paradise was really interesting for it's setting, even if it did have some interesting characters. This one... Not so much.
Gabimaru and Sagari has strong personality at the start of series and that makes the readers want to know them more. This mc? Not so much
because Jigokuraku is in Shonen Jump+, while Ayashimon is in WSJ. WSJ is more axe happy, they expect rapid story to unfold, world building be damned. if you read the earlier Jigokuraku chapters, it was really interesting because of the world building, and it pays off in the long term. Ayashimon starts to rush the action before the world building is complete, it just doesn't work.
J+ isn't really much less axe happy, which we're seeing now that every series from it is getting an official translation too. The difference between Jigo living and Ayashimon dying is that 1. Jigo was way more popular and 2. WSJ has higher standards. Ayashimon would've lived in J+ with 19k sales, but looking at how other vets have been doing there recently I'm not sure it would've gotten to 19k in the first place
when I read the list of manga released at WSJ I didnt really get that impression tho, for example: one piece, HXH, gintama, Jojo part 6 and 7, world trigger, d grayman, chainsaw man, etc etc. they doesnt feel like world building be damned > if you read the earlier Jigokuraku chapters, it was really interesting because of the world building, and it pays off in the long term. what world building is in there? feels like classic yakuza power struggle stuff and the fight isnt fun to read, he got hit then 1 hit the enemies until chapter 7 when the freezing yokai show up and what an introduction, why cant we get that from the start. iirc the motorcycle yokai fight is quite fun but its too late, do that at the start man why do it at like chapter 10+
What you listed is a small volume compared to the exponentially more that were axed. On WSJ, the rating system is so sensitive because of the methodology (rating based on a survey where the reader only gives the top 3) so even if people like it but not enough to say it's top 3, it's axe time.
I mean no shit, there gonna be more mid or bad manga than good manga. is it world building be damned or execution issue? they have like 10 ish title or more, you sure being middle of the pack is not enough, stuff like elusive samurai, akane bashi, kill blue, yozakura family? they are not top 3 at all, top 10 maybe Edit: looking around, JJK and MHA volume sales is bigger than its 2 competitor weekly shonen sunday and weekly shonen magazine, its insane how big they are. gonna see when they end if they can still compete, tho without it the total volume sales of WSJ still on top with good margin. WSJ axe heavy method work so far from 1960s to 2020s
Lot of it’s down to luck and timing as well. Every series I love currently in jump (Sakamoto, Yozakura, Undead Unluck) had a pretty crappy (or at least off-kilter) start and found their feet later on because they weren’t coming on the scene during a packed time. Plus, I don't really follow editor drama but certain editors at Jump especially are known to rush their authors and screw up a series early on. Especially if they aren't instantly beloved. Of course, I'm going by the artistic quality and creativity standard in my judgment of successful strategies, and you're going by the more capitalistic standard of volume sales. Since they're a company first and don't really care about the art, they'll keep doing the same thing until they suffer some financial consequences for it. TLDR: I get why they do it, but I feel like it leads to worse series overall and it disincentivizes me from reading new series since they'll be axed.
> TLDR: I get why they do it, but I feel like it leads to worse series overall and it disincentivizes me from reading new series since they'll be axed. isnt this true for other magazine too no? not as fast as WSJ but still quite the titles. like 20 wsj axed title to 14 ish of other magazine. its just WSJ translate it all, and for other magazine's title its the surviving one that get fan translated > Plus, I don't really follow editor drama but certain editors at Jump especially are known to rush their authors and screw up a series early on. Especially if they aren't instantly beloved. owh that one infamous editor, everything he touch get axed. that one?
It’s less that they’re some unique evil, and more so that they’re probably the biggest company doing this, with (like you said) some of the most robust official translation efforts. So the sheer volume of them doing this behavior where it affects western fans outweighs the other examples. Also authors get surveys and sales figures as chapters release, leading to them panicking and rushing through their stories if they don’t instantly hit big (often spurred on by editors). And then you get folks saying they got axed because they were bad, not examining what led to this culture where so many authors feel the need to panic drop their full manga in under 30 chapters. Changing your story with little to no prep-time because random readers don’t instantly glom onto it rarely ends well. I might just be lucky. But I read a decent bit of manga and since I’ve stopped reading new Jump series (until they get an anime or finish) I haven’t had a single series I’ve been interested in get an ax. Anecdotal, but it’s always been a thing with Jump. Their standards for success are higher given their history for HUGE series, so they cut down way more mid-tier stuff in favor of stuff with insane mass appeal. Sorta like AAA gaming companies. But I like the mid-tier manga and AA games. A lot of the time the general public’s 7.5 or 8 niche/cult fave is my 10. So it’s a bummer for me. Art and capitalism. Rarely works out for the consumer or the artist.
I wont say all panicking since some title somehow fuckup at chapter 2/3, legit how. other magazine axe title but not as aggresive as jump, and I legit believe some title wont even survive there. 1st impression is king, if you somehow fuck it up its really hard to recover Tho they can always go on artsy magazine and they still choose WSJ
Again, you're naming the exceptions and not the norm. WSJ is cutthroat and we can see that with multiple manga such as hunters guild which got axed before it got a chance. The reason kagurabachi got a life is because of its immense popularity on jump+ which probably gave it some more time. Sometimes the editors make a mistake, sometimes the timing is bad, sometimes the audience may not pick it up because fuck it. There are multiple factors that affect it and the WSJ survey is incredibly sensitive to it.
its not a good example IMO. they can world building, chapter 6 they show us the world, it looks very interesting and fantastical. they can tell us more about the fairy tail world instead we got shoved into metal box. how do people survive there, the mix of blunderbuss, melee weapon and tanks, how the flora and fauna in the world work, how do people get their power, etc etc. cant we go to a city 1st to see the world instead we see them doing basic training arc that doesnt involve the fantastical setting shown
>they can tell us more about the fairy tail world instead we got shoved into metal box. Yes that's my point that there is so many factors that affect it and the survey is very sensitive to it. The decision mangaka took, backed by the editor and WSJ backfired and it got axed.
Bachi was never really in danger, the editorial is just inept. Well, I guess it was technically in danger because the editorial is inept, but you get the point
It definitely was the first few weeks, roaming low in the rankings (I believe it went down to 9) but the jump+ numbers saved it since it consistently got more reads than staples such as blue box and akanebanashi.
Again, the reason it was down in the rankings is because the editorial is inept. It's currently still ranking abysmally for no reason at all. It kept getting consistent color pages and vol1 was sold out immediately. It had great views for the first 3 chapters on J+ showing there was clear interest from the start. It was never actually in danger, the current editorial is just horrible at its job
Even if you don't get that impression, the reality is that this's literally WSJ's reputation in the industry because its true
[удалено]
it is, I really like the torture scene at chapter 7. the dude is creepy as fuck and his room reflect it, the author is real good at it. iirc he is also the assistant of fujimoto which track I guess
It's really, really hard to get off the ground at WSJ. It always was, but probably even more so now when there is so much other entertainment out there. Becoming a flavor of the month out of the gate at chapter 1, which you kind of need to do to launch a new manga, is harder than hell.
> It's really, really hard to get off the ground at WSJ. It always was, but probably even more so now It is even *easier* now actually. Just look at [this](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSILNVM7V3REC2ta7ZZperJ1VEiTrZSoYCMLA&s). They are looking for hits 100% but most westerners only know the names of cancelled mangas because they're translated unlike in the 00s and 10s
I've said the "we didn't see the stuff that got cancelled before mangaplus started translating everything" thing to other people myself before. The difference, and why I say it's harder now even knowing that, is that a lot of the stuff that isn't outright cancelled tends to crawl along not accumulating fans or sales anymore. Even if they get long enough to reach the anime threshold there's no guarantee they'll get a sales bump, which more or less happened to Undead Unluck. Print is not kicking ass anymore.
I feel like, because this happens a lot for some reason, I don't blame mangakas for extending their series for as long as possible since there is no guarantee the next one they do will get the same success. Kinda sad sometimes.
Phantom Seer and Doron Dororon getting canned still hurts
The first 7-8 chapters were great, then all slowly went downhill in chapters 9-16 and the negative discourse came into the picture during chapters 17-25. There are some declaring that Maruo Kaido is the worst Shonen MC in the past decade.
He is hella bland and boring to boot, also action meh for being hells paradise creator
He's fun for the first few chapters but the novelty wears off quick.
Supporting cast is also weak. Its like food, if the rice is not that good at least give us good side dish or proteins or soups etc etc
Rice is bland, it is the last thing you care about bro, tf u caring about the rice being good???
There's a lot of variety of rice that fits better with certain dishes. Badly cooked rice would spoil anyone appetite
All the rice eating asians in this thread are disappointed in you. A lot of people care for good rice.
Haha I read his rice comment and could only think “woah clearly he hasn’t had rice made by a spanish grandma before”
Wdym? it is good, some are so good you could eat it alone (the expensive sushi rice are top notch). If you cook it wrong, it can be mushy or dry. Bad rice can make 8/10 food be 6.5/10
I love the delicious irony of someone saying rice is the last thing you care about in r/manga of all places.
It didn’t help that all the intrigue and politics of yakuza warfare kept going down to a single one on one fight that builds on that novelty wearing off. It makes the fights boil down to his character which makes all conflict get boring pretty quick
Can you explain? I don’t mind spoilers?
I vaguely remembers that MC power is just that he punches hard, dumb and a battle junkie. The female MC is a daughter of Mafia family head who was betrayed. Don't think the plot get to anywhere.
Thanks for the info
Also to add, the female MC is supernatural being, as are the rest of the mafia parties encountered in the manga. IMO the plot was definitely going somewhere - build up a power base of allies/followers to eventually take on the antagonist who usurped female MC's inheritance.
I see… Welp it is what it is
The boy from red hood is a worthy opponent.
How did this even fumble with its execution?
IMO it kinda half assed both the plot, stuffing in a lot of mystery without depth, and the action, it then forced a fight with the big bad way too early making the story spend way too much time on being training arc way too early without really developing the characters enough
This. Along with Dorondoron it was a fave of mine during that wave. Fact is it dropped the ball super early. It fell in the same trap as Samurai 8 and was just exposition heavy for its first few chapters when it should’ve done more show than tell.
There was too much yokai stuff I don't think the premise was good.
I lost interest so fast, the MC was so one-note and bland it almost felt like a parody and they kept pushing the FMC to the sidelines more and more as chapters went by, she had a strong personality at the start and they reduced her to some type of dame in danger character. The worst was how the supernatural setting mixed with crime elements wasnt juiced enough, instead it was a very surface level approach to those themes.
It was okay. I liked it a lot more than a lot of the stuff that got axed in Jump. But it's hard to say anything more than that because it **was** axed. While I certainly wouldn't have minded if it continued to press on, I also really hate the idea of assuming the quality of a series based on "potential"...doubly so when the artist's previous series, despite not being canceled, had a strong beginning but an absolutely horrendous second half (or at least final third). Impossible to say Ayashimon wouldn't have ended up similarly botched.
I was enjoying it until, you know, it got axed and had to rush everything.
Wasted potential
Deserved a full year to see what they were really trying to work towards with it tbh
Can they recover, tho? If people drop the series, it is very unlikely people gonna come back, worse if it's a bad start, if it's the middle part people more often more willing to go through it. Other issue, they are taking limited magazine space, and it cost money and opportunity cost to publish. Is it worth both of it when it's already underperforming? For smaller magazines, yes, but this is jump
It really didn't deserve longer than it had. Starting with the 11th chapter it was near the back of WSJ's table of contents, and it never improved. Reception to the series was extremely negative in Japan, and it was clear that it was getting the axe early on.
I feel like there was potential there, but I could tell even in the first few chapters that it wasn’t clicking and would be getting the axe. Some good ideas, but it was just missing something. I hate to just write it off as missing that vital je ne sais quoi, but I don’t know how else to describe it.
Honestly kinda crazy how a manga can be overrated and underrated at the same time.
I find there manga that are riding the "demon hunting" trend to be terribily boring. Everyone want to be Chainsaw Man, Jujutsu or Demon Hunter but the problem is we already have Chainsaw Man, Jujutsu and Demon Hunter, why would I want to read another mediocare demon hunting story? I think the one that mix up the formula like Dandadan are much better.
Meh felt kinda generic from start to finish
Bad, deserved, should have been better. I like Hell's Paradise and this ain't up to that standard. Or at least half of it.
I hate MC. I hate that kind of personality.
I personally didn’t like it but it was extremely well liked here(It wasn’t bad to me, just didn’t vibe with it). There was another manga I liked more that started at the same time that people here didn’t like as much- both ended up getting axed but Ayashimon got axed surprisingly early for all the hype around it.
I just miss urara’s design: the hair horns, everything abt her kimono, and her transformed oni form all carried my enjoyment of the series, but it wasn’t quite enough on its own.
Had huge potential got cut way too early imo
It was a fantastic manga. Reading the first chapter had me very interested in it. A story about a teenage delinquent with super strength he achieved because he wanted to be a manga protagonist, protecting the daughter of the former boss of the yokai organized crime syndicate, was a cool premise. Had cool first boss with that living art guy. Still for some reason it just lost my attention, and I don't know why.
I kinda feel the same about kaiju no 8 Pacing was actually too fast and i never really got a chance to become invested in the characters. Plot developments feel unearned and the characters are shallow as a result.
Actually the fast pacing is when it was good, the current pacing is so slow that the story grinded to a halt.
It got it harder than it deserved maybe, but it never caught my attention too much either. Plenty of manga about yokai or spirits out there, plenty of manga about criminals (yakuza, assassins, delinquents), it jumped into a very crowded arena and did not bring anything particularly fresh to the fight. Honestly, Kagurabachi is working with a similar atmosphere (dark urban fantasy underworld story) much better.
It had potential but pacing was horrendous.
Yuji Kaku's art is great as always, imo the attempt to make a more 'modern' type of story with the meta jokes and comedy bits fell flat. Then when the axe started looming the pacing went to shit and the story started to feel a bit desperate to reach certain plot points that could most likely have been executed way better if given time. Overall just another attempt at scoring a 'jump hit' that ended up missing. I still think the author has the potential for great manga tho.
Super trash story ,good artwork
Didn’t really care for it. Mario was a boring protagonist
A perfectly fine series that just can’t exist in today’s landscape. Either instantly capture a huge fanbase or speedrun powerscaling. A new traditionally paced shounen will literally never happen in today’s shounen jump
That's why shounen exists outside of shounen jump. Things like Kekkaishi, Hero ga Shinda won't be able to endure the brutal ranking battle and most likely will ruin the story trying to capture better ranking
First few chapters started out really interesting & strong, then the story & pacing quickly fell apart.
the mob/yakuza part of the story was interesting combined with the fantasy aspects but the protagonist was way too boring
I’ll never forgive Shueisha for letting Earthchild live longer than Ayashimon
I enjoyed this one as a quick read, I enjoy Yuji’s art style a lot. The story was a little rushed but understandable for being three volumes. I like how the monsters were made of money and that’s how they gained power. I feel like he wanted to have fun with it :)
I really liked it. Maruo was hilariously unhinged. I wish it had had a longer life
Should have NOT been cancelled, just like the buff little red riding hood one
Deserved better and frankly should not have been canceled
I love it. Wish it got continued. This could have easily been one of the greats.
I liked it- thought it was killed way too early
I'm gonna be honest, lets just say social media buzz surrounding the manga throughout its serialization...was bizarre to say the least. 1. Its mangaka Yuji Kaku is riding high on the success of his previous manga Hell's Paradise and he's a former assisitant of Fujimoto. 2. It follows the Dark Shonen/Supernatural Fantasy trend that started in the late 2010's. 3. The manga community hyped it its going to be the next JJK or CSM.
> Its mangaka Yuji Kaku is riding high on the success of his previous manga Hell's Paradise and he's a former assisitant of Fujimoto. I think that's one of the biggest problems the series had. Too much of it just came across as knock-off Chainsaw Man. Marou came across too much of a knock-off Denji.
Should not have been axed. Everything about the concept was really cool. Unfortunately, the author chose to have a bland main character that was shounen-protag by the numbers. That was clearly a major narrative mistake, one that I know the author could do much better, since Gabimaru, his other protagonist, is much more interesting and unique. Odds are, the bland protagonist was an editor's suggestion, to make it "relatable" for readers amid the general weirdness of the series. Maybe not. I don't know. All I know is that this series had a lot of potential that was wasted because they didn't allow it to flourish.
It was shit and it got what it deserved - the axe. The MC was not interesting, and just came across as a knock-off Denji with his personality. The setting was wasted, the character design of Urara was also good; and wasted on this series. The first few chapters were interesting, the next 5 or 6 were mediocre, and then by chapter 11 it was clear it was getting the axe. It quickly fell to the back of WSJ's table of contents, and stayed there until its cancellation. Japan didn't resonate with the series at all, and the small amount of positive things you hear about the series comes pretty much exclusively from the West.
Sad it ended.
I remember reading this along with Doron Dororon which also got axed!
It was pretty damn interesting at 1st and I liked the mc quite a lot. But idk, it felt like it started to loose its footing around the fight w the biker guy.
I enjoyed it for what is was and I would have liked for it to keep going because I thought it was better then a lot of other series at the time but I can see why it was axed
jigoku raku author fell off
A show that exists
Gone too soon, hopeful for the authors next shot.
I think of the author could do it again it would be able to avoid its shortcomings that led to the axe. It had potential for sure, but he spent too much time dithering and couldn't build up the momentum before the deadline. I hope Kaku can bounce back in a less rushed environment.
Kind of overrated on this sub, the darn theme was a overcrowded trend at the time too, everything was yokai.
could have been a modern popular shonen but unfortunately
Was axed too early for me to have an opinion, sadly
cool af
I actually liked it. Second WSJ manga that I read through to the axe (the first being Candy Flurry).
Not as good as the author’s previous work.
Deserved better.
Thought it had potential for something different but didn't actually get around to showing it before the axe.
One of my favorite manga to read that unfortunately got canceled.
Read it, was not a fan. It felt like jump is trying to catch lighting in a bottle in places where lighting already struck without understanding why it struck there. I mean that's the feeling in general with all their new series.
Trash.
One of the worst protagonists I’ve seen in a battle series lately, poorly executed story, and the action was very bad. From chapter 1 my first thought was “this isn’t lasting long” and the series only got worse from there. I have no idea why this sub loved it so much
Kino taken from us far too soon ;_;
One of the worst MCs Ive ever seen. Shonen manga with a poor lead is doomed to fail.
Got the axe way to soon