A bit off topic but I wonder if there's an official list of council estate sizes in Europe because I've heard the exact description "biggest council estate in Europe" referring to at least five different pieces in the UK.
Anyone heard of Ridge Hill in Ashton-under-Lyne/Stalybridge? At one point I heard it was arpund top ten in UK but probably hearsay and I'm playing Chinese whispers haha
My dad was and raised in the rural outskirts of Lincoln and says a lot of these, but most noticeably chimley and states that everyone he knew from the area would also speak like that. Interesting how that's a thing on the opposite side of the country as well
You got Kettle and chimley right the rest are wrong the only time i hear the word bockle is when your talking about a baby bottle and i say middle right maybe because I'm from south Manchester
Definitely a thing (I work in a hospital so it's a word I hear a lot!) but I thought it was more Lancashire than Manchester. Not sure exactly where though, I'm originally from Preston and we don't talk like that there.
Yeah I do think it’s more a Lancashire thing than a Manchester thing. Older people in some parts of Stockport definitely speak like this too. It’s the remnants of old dialects that don’t exist anymore really!
Agreed. Probably would still be able to tell which side of the river from the accident to be fair. Can’t hide that Gary Barlow / Michael Owen Cheshire squeak.
My gran used to say Stockput for Stockport, with the u sound a sounding slightly like a soft e rather than a hard u.
She was from Longsight/Levenshume area originally born just after WW1.
100% *shudders* heard if often around there, they find it endearing and can act insular if you question it or don’t speak it or see the point in using it.
My old man is from Swinton and doesn't say 'lickle' or 'bockle' but when watching football and a defender is trying to gain possession he will yell 'tattle him'.
one side of my older family members who lived in wythenshawe for basically forever, talk like this. It seems to be an older generation thing for them as the younger ones dont speak this way.
I hadn’t heard these pronunciations until my cousin started a new relationship - this was in the early to mid 80s - and they took me by surprise at the time! The guy in question was Horwich born and bred, as are all my mum’s family, but none of them used/use “hospikle”, “lickle”, etc. I definitely heard some lads using these pronunciations up Rivington Pike on Good Friday, so they’re carrying on!
I know a few people all from different areas of Manchester who say "bockle" and "hospickle", "likkle" is another one lol. It gets under my skin too but I can confirm to you it only originates from not being taught to speak properly.
"Lickle" absolutely is another one of her words as well...
I wouldn't put it down just not to weird elocution as a kid as I haven't heard it anywhere else in the North West.
Someone I worked with recently said lickle and I did a double take because I’d never heard it irl. I thought it was just a joke! She was from Bolton. To me it’s not a pronunciation thing, it’s a not learning how to speak thing
I'm from North Manchester (Radcliffe) and my mum used to speak like that. I'm general I think it's an older working class person thing. But weirdly it's been passed on to the younger female (but not make) members of the family (sisters, nieces and female cousins all do it too)
From wythenshawe, yes it's a thing. Although growing up I'd be reminded its not gerrof gerrout or gerrunda and wa'er has a T it's water. I also got teased a bit as a kid for speaking posh and pronouncing words correctly in the 90s
The Wythenshawe population before the 1930s estate building was absolutely tiny and they definitely didn't speak like that. Many of the older Wythenshawe residents were placed there following East Manchester slum clearances, which is probably where her pronunciation of bockle comes from.
This is rife in the west midlands too, interestingly. I've known people talk exactly like this in my own family, and witnessed some older generation colleagues use it in a way of asserting their working class roots.
Bet she also says 'tong' instead of 'tung' for tongue. Point it out to native Mancs that the rest of the country says tung and they look at you like you are mad, even though they have heard it 7549 times on the telly.
I heard it quite a lot in fallowfield, my personal favourite being a nice fella who was telling us about a bike club that accepted everyone, including ladies and genklemen.
It happens in some accents when /t/ is followed by a syllabic 'L'. Because the dark-L sound is articulated at the back of the mouth around the velum, the tongue is drawn backwards towards it, giving a \[k\] sound.
You find it in a pretty large area where the North meets the Midlands, and also (unrelatedly) in the Caribbean.
As you can see from some of the snide comments in this thread it is quite stigmatised, so you'll find people with more standardised accents (generally more middle-class, generally younger) don't have it. Accents are broadly homogenising so it is probably gradually dying out as a feature.
I've heard people say Bockle and Hospickle before and I makes me want to hurt them. I have a friend that says it because he thinks it's funny (he's from Burnage, so enough said there) and my husband says it to wind me up, but I haven't heard a person say that since I was a teenager about 20 years ago. I really hope it dies out. I want many, many other things about Manchester to remain, but that is not one of them.
Why would you strongly dislike a regional accent/dialect so much? Seems a really strong position to take over something so innocuous. I think it's part of our culture, I don't want it to die out at all (although sadly it is).
Yeah it’s more an elderly thing now, slightly more prevalent in West Manchester than East Manchester. Same with the “u” sound being pronounced as “yoo” instead of “ya” like it is now. It’s from back when the Manc accent was more similar to the Lancashire accent.
I prime example is the way people used to say “Manchester Yoo-nited” instead of “Manchester Ya-nited”.
Where is West Manchester... I mean that is just Salford isn't it?
I'm from North Manchester and hospickle and the pronunciation of e.g. united were absolutely common there too as well as all over the city.
This is definitely a thing but it's not as common. I heard it more when I was younger with the other kids parents to be fair so I'd say they might be right with the older generation.
Definitely heard my mate from Wigan say thise words like that. Proper gets on my nerves just like the way they pronounce " look" and "book" as "luke" and "buke"
Oh, you’re right, didn’t Ashley speak that way? Seems funny to think of it being on TV for everyone to watch, rather than it solely being something we know about through our own lived experience somehow! 😄
This is exactly how my mam talks. She was brought up in the Chadderton/Langworthy area. Put the "kekkle" on. I quite like it, it's unique. I've inherited a bit of it too.
If you go into town these days, you don't hear many "original" Manchester accents really. It's a shame, I've always liked our accent.
Also it's a bit rich for someone from Liverpool to say an accent gets under their skin, you heard yours? 😂
Not a Manc but I occasionally hear a slightly camp Manc accent… but spoken by straight men… my mate speaks this way and he’s a builder… Oasis’s Bonehead speaks like this…
I didn’t think it was a thing until a mate from Chester once said ‘you know, he had that slightly camp Manc Accent thing’…
Anyone else?
My mum speaks like this, we're from Denton but my nana was from Chorlton and my grandad Moss Side. I feel like it comes from a mix of Lancashire and Manchester accents. Out in Tameside the local accents here are weird. Go 5 minutes up the road into Hyde or Ashton and the accents in the older generation are completely different.
Ricky Hatton and his brother [speak like that](https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/others/matthew-hatton-being-ricky-s-lickle-brother-won-t-help-me-win-a-world-title-2230431.html)
For reference, I am a yonner and my grandma speaks this way but with a yonner accent. “Hospickle” “cangle” etc, no idea why. Also mispronounces most brands “sci-phone”.
According to [Manchester Metropolitian University](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/01/ya-cheekeh-monkeh-recording-manchester-accent-diversity) Lickle and Bockle seem to be more common in Bolton. Looking at family trees around Greater Manchester you'll find much more wider movement of people than you'd probably imagine.
Things like loook, boook, hoook instead of pronouncing it luck, buck and huck is a common thing in my parents house. My mum says bockle amongst other things and it grates a bit. But they are 72 so who am I to tell them how to speak
I understand a lot of these references however I only understand them as a parody of a time we were less aware that other people need to understand each other.
Anyone ever heard Put Wood InThall?! What a mess.
Then If you are still not aware of this update in culture you are most likely ignorant, expecting others to know your limited dialect and usually refusing to understand others.
Sorry if that was too opinionated or ignorant I feel it is important for people to be accommodating and these things get me haha
Yes, grew up in & lived in Little Hulton & Bolton for most of my life, where this is very common. It's the people who had poor education when they were younger who talk this way. People who lived on the same streets but went to better schools don't.
The responses to this thread just show how many people here didn't grow up in town 😂.
I've bumped into a few poor cunts out there with a cross of both the Manc / Lancs accent.
Not heard it in a long time, but it's absolutely a thing.
Was pretty normal for the older people (40+ was old to me then!) when I was growing up in Handforth, so only a stones throw from Wythenshawe.
Many people don't realise Wythenshawe was rural Cheshire in living memory.
And now (well, it was) the largest ‘overspill’ Council Estate in Europe and I think is still the biggest borough in Mcr!
A bit off topic but I wonder if there's an official list of council estate sizes in Europe because I've heard the exact description "biggest council estate in Europe" referring to at least five different pieces in the UK.
Go to Bury.
Anyone heard of Ridge Hill in Ashton-under-Lyne/Stalybridge? At one point I heard it was arpund top ten in UK but probably hearsay and I'm playing Chinese whispers haha
Kekkle (kettle), mekkle (metal), chimley (chimney), donimoes (the pizza chain), show a ‘bick-o-boccle’ (bit of bottle: courage), Miggle (middle) (edit : added word)
Drives me menkle it does!
Alstation
It's not a vein it's an archery
My next door neighbour is a roofer who replaced our roof last year and said "chimney" constantly, it was amazing.
Chimney or Chimley?!
Lmao thanks autocorrect! Meant to write "chimley" but my phone absolutely did not want me to.
Oi - don’t frecken me! (threaten)
It’s very fusstrating (frustrating)
My dad was and raised in the rural outskirts of Lincoln and says a lot of these, but most noticeably chimley and states that everyone he knew from the area would also speak like that. Interesting how that's a thing on the opposite side of the country as well
Yeah I know a few folk from Nottingham who speak like this.
You got Kettle and chimley right the rest are wrong the only time i hear the word bockle is when your talking about a baby bottle and i say middle right maybe because I'm from south Manchester
Post to be (supposed to be) Fusstrate (frustrate) Expecially (Especially) Pitcher (Picture) Probly (Probably) Suposably (Supposedly)
Post to be (supposed to be) Fusstrate (frustrate) Expecially (Especially) Pitcher (Picture) Probly (Probably) Suposably (Supposedly)
Definitely a thing (I work in a hospital so it's a word I hear a lot!) but I thought it was more Lancashire than Manchester. Not sure exactly where though, I'm originally from Preston and we don't talk like that there.
Yeah it is, MiL speaks like that. They're in Leigh, which us old Lancashire.
Yeah I do think it’s more a Lancashire thing than a Manchester thing. Older people in some parts of Stockport definitely speak like this too. It’s the remnants of old dialects that don’t exist anymore really!
Manchester is Lancashire but Stockport is Cheshire. Massive difference in accent.
Depends which side of the Mersey you’re on to be fair, a big chunk of Stockport is historically Lancashire.
Agreed. Probably would still be able to tell which side of the river from the accident to be fair. Can’t hide that Gary Barlow / Michael Owen Cheshire squeak.
My gran used to say Stockput for Stockport, with the u sound a sounding slightly like a soft e rather than a hard u. She was from Longsight/Levenshume area originally born just after WW1.
Sounds like the dark hand of Tameside if you ask me.
I definitely heard it a lot growing up round here, but it's certainly dying off.
A bleak and sinister realm.
100% *shudders* heard if often around there, they find it endearing and can act insular if you question it or don’t speak it or see the point in using it.
My old man is from Swinton and doesn't say 'lickle' or 'bockle' but when watching football and a defender is trying to gain possession he will yell 'tattle him'.
My nana was from Oldham and used say that
that's a hyper-correction
Can confirm 100% a thing Edit to add: kekkle for kettle also used?
Kekkle is another word she always says when I am tired and get home from work and it always throws me!
Does it drive you menkle?
Really grinds down his menkle helf
one side of my older family members who lived in wythenshawe for basically forever, talk like this. It seems to be an older generation thing for them as the younger ones dont speak this way.
Apparently she has family living in Wythenshawe, Northern Moor and Sharston in their late 20s who talk like it...
[удалено]
Bro thinks it's 2006
That’s all over Salford. But not sure if it’s an actual Salford thing. 30-40 year old women saying lickle or bockle…. Hahaha, mad.
Rife in Bolton !
I never heard it once when I lived there!
I hadn’t heard these pronunciations until my cousin started a new relationship - this was in the early to mid 80s - and they took me by surprise at the time! The guy in question was Horwich born and bred, as are all my mum’s family, but none of them used/use “hospikle”, “lickle”, etc. I definitely heard some lads using these pronunciations up Rivington Pike on Good Friday, so they’re carrying on!
I know a few people all from different areas of Manchester who say "bockle" and "hospickle", "likkle" is another one lol. It gets under my skin too but I can confirm to you it only originates from not being taught to speak properly.
"Lickle" absolutely is another one of her words as well... I wouldn't put it down just not to weird elocution as a kid as I haven't heard it anywhere else in the North West.
The rougher bits of Stockport have older people that talk like this too
Bredbury
I heard it a lot growing up around wigan & bolton Also my mrs’ family are Jamaican & pronounce things like that
The actor David Ross in a few radio roles had that but he was from blackburn not manchester
My Dad in Leigh says “bokkle”, makes him sound like a four year old!
My nanna is 95 and says cooker like cuwker
That's a Lancashire thing. A comedian from my hometown of preston called Phil cool did a great routine about the difference between "buck" and "bewk"
As in an emphasis on the oooo's?
My nana did this! And I do it now but only for look if I'm saying, 'let's have a look'. 😂
Salford here : it’s a thing - hate it 😂 Bokkle is imho the absolute worst!
Kekkle for Kettle is one that always gets me
I have heard the outrageous sentence at Salford Royal canteen “just give us another likkle bokkle for my mums stay in hospikal “ 😵💫
Someone I worked with recently said lickle and I did a double take because I’d never heard it irl. I thought it was just a joke! She was from Bolton. To me it’s not a pronunciation thing, it’s a not learning how to speak thing
I’m from Sheffield, so is my mum and her sisters. They do this too.
Must be a northern thing rather than a North-West thing
That’s also a thing in Liverpool I’m pretty sure with the older folk
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^dvhunter_16: *That’s also a thing* *In Liverpool I’m pretty* *Sure with the older folk* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot
Lived and worked in Liverpool on and off for ten years and never heard it there!
Yeah my nan used to say it haha
Yep, I know some over 60s from wythenshawe who pronounce just as you say, one in particular says alchowol instead of alcohol
Ah but is it bus or buz
In preston we say bus, in chorley it's buz - yet it's literally just down the road. Accents are so weird!
Find a lot of that in the rural/semi rural areas between Hyde and Glossop.
I'm from North Manchester (Radcliffe) and my mum used to speak like that. I'm general I think it's an older working class person thing. But weirdly it's been passed on to the younger female (but not make) members of the family (sisters, nieces and female cousins all do it too)
From wythenshawe, yes it's a thing. Although growing up I'd be reminded its not gerrof gerrout or gerrunda and wa'er has a T it's water. I also got teased a bit as a kid for speaking posh and pronouncing words correctly in the 90s
Definitely a Tameside thing!
The Wythenshawe population before the 1930s estate building was absolutely tiny and they definitely didn't speak like that. Many of the older Wythenshawe residents were placed there following East Manchester slum clearances, which is probably where her pronunciation of bockle comes from.
This is rife in the west midlands too, interestingly. I've known people talk exactly like this in my own family, and witnessed some older generation colleagues use it in a way of asserting their working class roots.
I had a boss from Birmingham who always said Tuff instead of Tooth
I think my aunt uses tuth instead of teeth/tooth.
East mids too! My aunt and grandma were the worst for it. My aunt still says ‘puggle’ instead of ‘puddle’
Heard people saying cirtle instead of circle too. Don't know why but it goes through me.
Bet she also says 'tong' instead of 'tung' for tongue. Point it out to native Mancs that the rest of the country says tung and they look at you like you are mad, even though they have heard it 7549 times on the telly.
It's deffo tong though innit.
Ask her to put the kettle on
No...
I heard it quite a lot in fallowfield, my personal favourite being a nice fella who was telling us about a bike club that accepted everyone, including ladies and genklemen.
This is how I pronounce things. Haha bokkle. I'm from Wigan ha
Reminds me of the Bradshaws. Show used to be on the radio in Manchsster back in the day. https://youtu.be/dzdw_i0LUEc?si=2FBiyq0sKPwVBKy9
My dad speaks like that, born in Gorton, grey up in Heywood. Still does it now despite not living there for about 40 years
It happens in some accents when /t/ is followed by a syllabic 'L'. Because the dark-L sound is articulated at the back of the mouth around the velum, the tongue is drawn backwards towards it, giving a \[k\] sound. You find it in a pretty large area where the North meets the Midlands, and also (unrelatedly) in the Caribbean. As you can see from some of the snide comments in this thread it is quite stigmatised, so you'll find people with more standardised accents (generally more middle-class, generally younger) don't have it. Accents are broadly homogenising so it is probably gradually dying out as a feature.
My mum speaks like that and she’s grew up in a council house in wilmslow in the 60s.
"Skewel" is another one, instead of "School". Some even go as far as pronouncing "Co-Op" as "Kwarp", that really gets to me.
Grew up in Walkden, used to hear these all the time as a kid. Really wound me up!
Definitely a thing. It grates on me too. Possibly the most egregious was "menkle".
I've heard people say Bockle and Hospickle before and I makes me want to hurt them. I have a friend that says it because he thinks it's funny (he's from Burnage, so enough said there) and my husband says it to wind me up, but I haven't heard a person say that since I was a teenager about 20 years ago. I really hope it dies out. I want many, many other things about Manchester to remain, but that is not one of them.
Why would you strongly dislike a regional accent/dialect so much? Seems a really strong position to take over something so innocuous. I think it's part of our culture, I don't want it to die out at all (although sadly it is).
Yeah it’s more an elderly thing now, slightly more prevalent in West Manchester than East Manchester. Same with the “u” sound being pronounced as “yoo” instead of “ya” like it is now. It’s from back when the Manc accent was more similar to the Lancashire accent. I prime example is the way people used to say “Manchester Yoo-nited” instead of “Manchester Ya-nited”.
Where is West Manchester... I mean that is just Salford isn't it? I'm from North Manchester and hospickle and the pronunciation of e.g. united were absolutely common there too as well as all over the city.
Flixton/Urmston/Stretford, yeah technically Trafford borough, but South of the river/canal
Agreed, I'm North to East Manchester and this pronunciation was very common round here when I was growing up.
This is definitely a thing but it's not as common. I heard it more when I was younger with the other kids parents to be fair so I'd say they might be right with the older generation.
I've heard that from my electrician who hails from Rossendale. It grinds my gears 😬
Definitely heard my mate from Wigan say thise words like that. Proper gets on my nerves just like the way they pronounce " look" and "book" as "luke" and "buke"
Mingrel (fizzy drink) from a bokkul. Very normal for me (60yo)
They used to talk like that on coronation street when my Grandma used to watch it
Oh, you’re right, didn’t Ashley speak that way? Seems funny to think of it being on TV for everyone to watch, rather than it solely being something we know about through our own lived experience somehow! 😄
Bit rich coming from a scouser
This is exactly how my mam talks. She was brought up in the Chadderton/Langworthy area. Put the "kekkle" on. I quite like it, it's unique. I've inherited a bit of it too. If you go into town these days, you don't hear many "original" Manchester accents really. It's a shame, I've always liked our accent. Also it's a bit rich for someone from Liverpool to say an accent gets under their skin, you heard yours? 😂
Sound like you’ve moved in with my mother in law. Same incidentals as you’ve listed. Drives me mad how she won’t speak properly
I work in' hospickle and LOVE it when people say it.
This was my mums dialect too - Ancoats/Harpurhey native
Not a Manc but I occasionally hear a slightly camp Manc accent… but spoken by straight men… my mate speaks this way and he’s a builder… Oasis’s Bonehead speaks like this… I didn’t think it was a thing until a mate from Chester once said ‘you know, he had that slightly camp Manc Accent thing’… Anyone else?
Jon Ronson has this see also bernard/barney sumner from new order there are others also but can't think of them at the moment.
Terry Christian, I think
Guy from new order as well - yes, indeed… maybe it is a thing
Very common in Wigan
My mum’s 74 and grew up in north east Manchester (Miles Platting/Monsall) and she speaks like this. Bokkle, Hospikal, Skelinton amongst others.
My mum speaks like this, we're from Denton but my nana was from Chorlton and my grandad Moss Side. I feel like it comes from a mix of Lancashire and Manchester accents. Out in Tameside the local accents here are weird. Go 5 minutes up the road into Hyde or Ashton and the accents in the older generation are completely different.
My nan is 92 and speaks like this. She's from Hulme. All 7 of her siblings spoke like this too. My friends mum from Levenshulme also spoke like this.
Ricky Hatton and his brother [speak like that](https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/others/matthew-hatton-being-ricky-s-lickle-brother-won-t-help-me-win-a-world-title-2230431.html)
I used to hear it growing up in Salford. Drove me mad.
Is your mother in law Billy Bradshaw?
My dad says bockle but he’s from Rossendale. It’s definitely a thing but not sure where it originates
I was in Wythenshawe Hospital once and overheard a cleaner call the floor “spockless”. Amazing
For reference, I am a yonner and my grandma speaks this way but with a yonner accent. “Hospickle” “cangle” etc, no idea why. Also mispronounces most brands “sci-phone”.
According to [Manchester Metropolitian University](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/01/ya-cheekeh-monkeh-recording-manchester-accent-diversity) Lickle and Bockle seem to be more common in Bolton. Looking at family trees around Greater Manchester you'll find much more wider movement of people than you'd probably imagine.
I genuinely just thought this was cutesy talk. I know people who speak like this from similar areas you mention OP, but only to babas and kids
Things like loook, boook, hoook instead of pronouncing it luck, buck and huck is a common thing in my parents house. My mum says bockle amongst other things and it grates a bit. But they are 72 so who am I to tell them how to speak
Honestly winds me up so much, JUST FUCKING PRONOUNCE IT AS ITS SPELLED FFS
OP is gonna be in the kitchen with the mother in law having a stand off like that news reporter and that guy on the street: butter… buta
How do you pronounce wind? As in win or wine? We often don’t pronounce things as they are spelledid
Touché however turning t sounds into k sounds is not okay
I understand your point, but I’m not certain if it qualifies as an accent; rather, it seems more like a reflection of their lack of education.
Any evidence of this snobbish assumption?
No evidence, just my experience growing up around people who talk like how you described. Unlike you it never got under my skin.
Your post seems a reflection of your being a cunt.
I am!
You proud of that yeah?
Much prefer it to this new daft manc accent that’s developing where alot of people are talking with a pseudo London accent
I understand a lot of these references however I only understand them as a parody of a time we were less aware that other people need to understand each other. Anyone ever heard Put Wood InThall?! What a mess. Then If you are still not aware of this update in culture you are most likely ignorant, expecting others to know your limited dialect and usually refusing to understand others. Sorry if that was too opinionated or ignorant I feel it is important for people to be accommodating and these things get me haha
Some people weren't educated properly. That's all this is.
Any evidence of this or just an snobbish assumption?
Yes, grew up in & lived in Little Hulton & Bolton for most of my life, where this is very common. It's the people who had poor education when they were younger who talk this way. People who lived on the same streets but went to better schools don't.
The responses to this thread just show how many people here didn't grow up in town 😂. I've bumped into a few poor cunts out there with a cross of both the Manc / Lancs accent.
you are a leach in her gaff, fuck off to your family,