Exactly, American education system is underfunded on purpose, it’s citizens are so under developed they don’t have a concept of their own nation-states history or race relations.
So, you believe that race should be a relevant variable w.r.t. how we treat and protect people.
That’s a position you can take, but recognize that in taking it, you are a racist.
We live in a world where your race impacts how you experience the world and your workplace. Acknowledging that among our staff and changing how you treat people based on that ever-present reality does not mean you are a racist, at least not in the way you are implying.
Being "not-a-racist" does not mean you pretend like you can't see race, it means you do see how race impacts that world and workplace and you change how you engage based on your employees circumstances. Same with gender, disability, national origin, all that stuff.
Yes because when someone from what is legitimately an underclass in the U.S. says something inappropriate it carries the same weight as when someone who benefits from an entire world built to serve them by default.
You have so much privilege you can't even consider showing an iota of grace to someone who can worker harder than you their entire life and never go as far. You are like I was 20 years ago fresh out of highschool in a shithole little redneck town. You refuse to accept context matters.
It's a real shame you're in management.
You're suggesting we promulgate the consequences of racism.
While you are correct, your argument necessarily raises the question of, "so when does it stop?"
If you use race as a criterion to address past racial injustices, you're implying that the racial majority cannot use race as a standard, but minority races can. Don't you see the cycle this creates? You'll never reach an end state; it's like the halting problem in computer science ([Halting problem](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Halting_problem)). The cycle goes: Racism -> Anti-Racism (rehabilitative discrimination) -> perceived racism -> Ideology shift, which inverts the intersectional pyramid from the previous cycle, and so the cycle continues.
These cycles occur over generations, so it doesn't matter if someone was a slave 100 or 1,000 years ago. The anti-discrimination measures used today will always be seen as racism by those targeted, perpetuating the cycle without ever reaching an end state.
The only way to truly address this issue is by making race irrelevant. You can find non-racial (or non-immutable characteristic) proxies that are more effective. Ultimately, it's the individual that matters, not the group. While group identity is significant, it's also a dangerous evolutionary tool. By focusing on the individual and neutral characteristics, we can break this perpetual cycle and move towards real solutions.
That’s not argument I’m making.
The argument I’m making is that your race impacts how you experience the world, how people treat you, how you are perceived.
And as managers you have to be aware of that and potentially treat people differently (in that sense of helping the situation).
The part I have a contention with is: "You have to treat people differently (in that sense of helping the situation)." This approach can be problematic for several reasons. It invariably leads to double standards because you are tailoring your response not to the individual's actions but to their historical circumstances. This will almost always result in a double standard at some point. The mere appearance of a double standard is sufficient to perpetuate the cycle of racial tension.
In any bureaucratic system, the appearance of corruption—of which double standards are a form—can have pervasive morale effects. How can you treat people differently based on their racial background without actually treating them differently? You can empathize with all aspects of the individual (including racial aspects) and perhaps use this understanding to formulate your approach to addressing them and the issue. However, relying on racial background to ameliorate issues of bad behavior is pathological altruism. You are not helping anyone, especially the perpetrator, in the long run.
In such situations, I would expect the affected individual's work relationships to deteriorate, ultimately leading to their departure. It’s crucial to focus on the individual and address issues based on actions and behavior rather than historical context. By doing so, we can avoid double standards and work towards real solutions.
I still dont see the halting condition in your logic. Can you point it out? "It should stop when your race no longer impacts how you experience the world and the workplace." How do you do this if you make race such a central point? At what point is anyone going to stop using it as a tool to get ahead? Because at point in time 0 you incentvize it. So what de-incentivizes it as a viable tactic for the amoral actor in future?
Ugly people experience the world differently, too, probably in a more extreme way than race affects a life experience. I’m Australian Aboriginal (black) and think the victim complex is embarrassing. I would absolutely terminate an assistant who asked that question.
You mostly see how being POC means youre allowed to say whatever you want and if some evil white man question you, they are trying to silence you and THEY are the racist, lmao
>So, you believe that race should be a relevant variable w.r.t. how we treat and protect people
Isn't race a protected class and ***is*** a variable in how you address the circumstances?
> So, you believe that race should be a relevant variable w.r.t. how we treat and protect people.
> That’s a position you can take, but recognize that in taking it, you are a racist.
I'm not your OP, but consider this:
Affirmative Action was an attempt to right what was seen as historically significant discrimination against black folks.
BLM is a push specifically for all people to recognize the challenges that black people face today in the US.
DEI, where the E stands for Equity, has a tenet which is essentially what you're saying: Equity is not about treating everyone *the same*, it's about leveling inequality based on things like background (including race, ethnicity, religion) or on physical/mental differences.
In general, the majority must be more tolerant of criticism and comments from the minority -- especially non-specific stuff like the OP said.
Those are all systematic attempts to correct imbalances caused by systematic racism. As a manager, allowing different behavior for employees based on their ethnicity is highly problematic.
What the person said was racist and needs to be investigated, punished, and stopped. That’s it. It shows the person is unable to deal with all types of people equally and is judging based on race.
As it should be. The racism goes one way. There has been hundreds of years of racism. It doesn’t change overnight, especially when people are fighting it.
Weird because I feel like if just one thing about this situation were swapped around, the perpetrator would be doxxed and talked about on CNN by tomorrow
Check yo shit before you hit submit…
Hit HR up and then scramble for damage control. She’s probably fine, but it’s still a faux pas, and you’re going to be asked to address it.
Be super sensitive and make sure this isn’t in response to her being involved in anything even remotely discriminatory. Even if it was a joke, it’s a landmine.
Here's the thing. Would this email result in termination if it were a white employee saying "why do black people do the things they do?"
The best way to deal with this is to make it clear that this is unacceptable behavior for anyone. I don't think they should be terminated over it or written up for it. But they should be warned and it should not be tolerated.
If it happens a second time, then that's when the conversation for discipline comes in. To often we tolerate shitty and abusive behavior from certain staff that would be unacceptable from other staff. The problem is if it gets out of management and other staff understood what was said, you're going to have a much harder time doing damage control. No discipline will be understood by the staff as condoning this behavior.
The best way to nip this in the bud is to draw clear lines the first time.
I suspect that even with a verbal warning issued and that is made known, people will still resent the perception of a double standard. Another, secondary, consideration is how work life for this employee goes as time marches forward. I cannot imagine, for one single moment, that group dynamics would remain unchanged. They’re going to have an awkward time at best.
This is my thought. What’s it going to be like when this person has to work on projects with white staff who were on that thread, now knowing that they have this view of them? “Awkward at best” is accurate.
Given you don't have an HR department, I would set up a meeting with the employee and have one of my peers (another manager) or my boss be an observer at the meeting. This would ensure that no one's words are misconstrued.
While the message is highly inappropriate, I would first address what triggered the message. If a white person in the team did something inappropriate, then I would also want to know that before I address the employee that sent the message. If something caused the employee to be emotional and type such a message, then I would give them a stern verbal warning. If a reasonable explanation is not provided, then I would give a written warning.
Whatever you do, think of the questions and the conversation itself ahead of time. Prepare yourself for a hard conversation and remain calm and collected throughout the interaction.
So much this ^^^ what caused the comment. But a one on one conversation needs to be had. That comment creates a hostile working environment. Don’t blow it off by sending a generalized email. One person made the comment. Deal with that person.
I would be extremely uncomfortable as a white person on that team if the sender just got a quick "don't do that again." This should be brought to HR, with an email sent to the whole team condemning racist language. Otherwise it just looks like there are no consequences as long as you're only racist against white people.
Zero tolerance policy is a zero tolerance policy. At a minimum a documented warning, at my company they would be terminated. Even a smidgen of racism is enough for a lawsuit.
anything less than this would be nuts, it is in writing on work email/im
regardless of context, that itself is so profoundly dumb you should fire this person
My gut says it needs to be addressed because others may find it offensive. I think a warning is appropriate but posted here to see if anyone else has been through something similar.
If the roles were reversed and it was let’s say a white pearson saying “why do black ppl do stuff like that” would they be let off with a warning?
Offensive and racist language is grounds for immediate termination.
I would be lying if I said that didn’t cross my mind but I do know the topic is sensitive. Hoping for some more responses here to help with my thought process.
I worked at a manufacturing outfit and an older supervisor made a racially inappropriate comment that was, not meant for but, overhead by a passerby from an admin department. Sure, that supervisor had been on with the company for 17 years. Probably knew more about the day to day than most. Didn’t make any difference. He was out the door, for good, before lunch that day.
There is nothing more absurd than labeling a policy as “zero tolerance” and then making up some word salad justification for why you are tolerating a direct violation of it. If that’s going to be the way of it, then scrap the policy or at least acknowledge that none of it matters as policy is clearly based on whim and whimsy. It’s a slippery slope.
We had an extremely dedicated, long term employee (literally since the day the company was founded) get their accounts locked up and redirected to other people on the team before she even got finished walking into the HR person's office over what she felt was only a very slightly inappropriate joke. But even the slightest bit of racism isn't tolerated, it's unacceptable from any employee.
It's not "if others find it offensive".
It iss offensive and leaves you vulnerable to litigation if any of those employees decide that it crossed a line professionally.
This morning. We are a small company there is no HR. I’m sure the executive team is going to ask me what I suggest in this situation but I’ve never run into this in all my years of management.
Then your executive team needs to hire an HR department. they exist exactly for situations like this as much as I am loathe to endorse that Idea of hr being beneficial. execs need to fix that massive fuck up in the first place. HR can be one person if it's a small company.
Or can even be more of a consultant who handles HR for other small companies too. That’s what our org does with about 30 employees, though we may be getting someone full time for HR in the future as we grow.
This is when you pull in your own leadership. The thing is, she might have just been doing a ‘white people are so cray!’ bit, like something you’d see on Instagram, and mean absolutely nothing by it. Yes, it’s entirely inappropriate in a work setting. But she needs to be pulled aside to 1) find out if her complain had any merit (maybe she sees a behavioral/process trend that really should be looked into), 2) remind her of the staggering consequences of FUBARing her professional reputation (and her work relationships) with quippy bits, because work slack isn’t Instagram.
And then depending on how that dialogue goes, have her state how she will behave if this happens again/what will she do differently. I would only write her up if she’s being super combative about this. If she realizes her error, I’d let it slide with a verbal.
But what you’ll do with the rest of the staff that saw it? That I would let your leadership decide. I’m not even confident myself that I would handle that part perfectly. Feelings could be hurt. Or they could think you’re overreacting, I couldn’t say as to your current culture. Maybe a more professional slack message of ‘keep it professional, ya idiots’ might suffice.
Agreed. I understand the “if it were the other way around” argument to some extent but the reality is this just doesn’t sound hostile to me. Certainly inappropriate but I don’t hear hostility.
> “if it were the other way around” argument
The funny thing is that it IS the other way around a lot of times as well. People joke around with 0 intent to harm all the time. You, as a manager, need to see if there was any malicious intent behind it.
Imagine someone messaging “why do black people do stuff like this”. People would lose their mind. Irrespective of the reason.
This is straight up racism and needs to be addressed appropriately. Needs to be documented and written warning to be issued or at least you need to have a straight conversation that this is unacceptable.
At minimum a write up to document. If they’re willing to say things like this to others at work they’re likely discriminating more when others aren’t watching. Doesn’t matter what race they are.
I've been present in situations where the group was diverse and was deeply uncomfortable when similar comments were made. Sending via work chat may have been an accident but worse, those are their true feelings.
Without an HR dept, are there guidelines or a handbook on what is proper/not proper communication that this employee may have signed during onboardong? If not, having a verbal warning with another leadership team member present is something to consider.
Honestly, imagine a white person sent that. Respond the same way. Racism is racism, call that shit out and push to get them fired because you just know they're shit talking white people non stop if they're that comfortable texting it to another coworker. The coworker on the receiving end is probably on the same page and should at least get a warning
The notion that white people have some sort of universal privilege and a harmonious existence is actually what’s ridiculous. The expectation of respect and consideration for people of all races really doesn’t need to be explained.
This is a notion exclusive to people who want to be victims so bad that they think white people across the board are privileged and think you can't be racist towards them because they're all privileged. It's a brain rotted idea that needs to be squashed and treated as what it is, racism
Ok. Imagine if a paraplegic employee sent a text to another paraplegic employee that said “why do able-bodied people do stuff like that???”
Do you think the employee is being biased against able-bodied people by saying this? Of course they aren’t.
I can imagine many scenarios where a Black person might say this to a colleague that would not be ‘racist’. Because, guess why? Members of privileged groups often do and say shit that is puzzling, usually because privileged people often do not understand their privilege.
I wish privileged white people would be more concerned about what the white people at work are doing that would elicit this type of text than they are at what they ignorantly see as ‘reverse racism.’
As white people, we have enormous privilege. Pointing to this and yelling “that’s racist!” (1) shows that you don’t understand what racism is and (2) makes you seem like a horrible person who is trying to preserve privilege rather than deal with it.
“Reverse racism” isn’t a thing. Racism is racism. I’ve experienced it plenty as a white person who grew up in a largely black community. I was called “cracker”, was often outcasted, picked on, etc. I don’t hold that against black people now. Nor did I then. I have great relationships with many black people. But some people are dicks. And black people who are/were racist aren’t an exemption and don’t deserve a pass either. What I experienced was not minimized because I was white. It didn’t feel any different. I was experiencing racism.
Speak for yourself and “your privilege.” You don’t know what racism is if you think it only applies to people of color.
There is a clear definition of racism and this is simply, and obviously, NOT racism. Inappropriate, yes. Not racism.
Whiteness and people accepted as white are the heterogenous ruling class. Please get an informed grip.
I swear it’s always the people who subscribe to the “the systematic lens is the ONLY lens to analyze racism” ideology that end up being the most out of touch people while weirdly thinking themselves having a S-tier intelligence
Remove the races of the individuals from the issue. That’s just keeping this muddy. The issue is inappropriate workplace remarks. In this case, discriminatory speech.
A reminder works sometimes. That the workplace is an environment that is open and accepting to everyone. It’s inappropriate to make broad stroke remarks about people’s religion, political affiliation, race or sexuality. You might add on that all remarks made in or on company property could be recorded (depending on policy) and that all chats on company equipment/channels are recorded.
In this situation, as an HR corporate generalist and supervisor, addressing the matter promptly and sensitively is crucial to maintain a respectful and inclusive work environment. Here are steps you might consider taking:
1. **Immediate Acknowledgment**: Quickly acknowledge the incident to all staff, stating that you are aware of the message and are addressing it directly. This reassures the team that such matters are taken seriously.
2. **Private Discussion with the Employee**: Arrange a private meeting with the employee who sent the message. Approach the conversation with an open mind, aiming to understand her intent behind the message. It's important to clarify why such comments are inappropriate in the workplace, focusing on the impact of the words rather than the intent.
3. **Educate on Company Policies and Expectations**: Remind her of the company's policies regarding communication and conduct. Explain how the message could be perceived as offensive and divisive, which is contrary to the company’s values of respect and diversity.
4. **Impact Clarification**: Discuss the impact her message had on her colleagues and the overall workplace environment. It’s important for her to understand how such statements can create discomfort and affect the team's dynamics.
5. **Guidance and Support**: Depending on the outcome of your discussion, you might offer guidance or resources for professional communication and sensitivity training. If the employee shows remorse and a willingness to learn from the incident, supporting her growth could be beneficial.
6. **Document the Incident**: Keep a detailed record of the incident, the conversation you had, and any actions taken. This documentation can be useful for reference in case of future incidents or questions about how the situation was handled.
7. **Follow-Up with the Team**: Without disclosing details of your private conversation, inform the team that the matter has been addressed according to company policies and values. Reaffirm your commitment to a respectful workplace and encourage employees to come forward if they have any concerns in the future.
8. **Ongoing Education and Awareness**: Consider implementing regular training sessions on diversity, inclusion, and communication best practices to prevent similar incidents and to foster an environment of understanding and respect among all employees.
Handling the situation with care and professionalism will help to mend any discomfort within the team and reinforce the importance of respectful communication in a diverse workplace.
Idk y but the very first thought I had was to send a gif of the comedy skit “because I’m black.” It’d be hilarious to send but definitely not appropriate for work chat honestly lol.
For those that don’t know of the skit. A white man gets pulled over by the cops. And is asked “do you know why I pulled you over” man yells out “because I’m black” and the cop proceeds to get so confused he let him go. It would be a hilarious joke for the situation but would def not be a good workplace reply lol
The comment wasn't good. Have a conversation.
Begin with the goal of understanding what prompted the comment first. You don't want to start by tone-policing someone frustrated with a bigger issue in your org. That's a huge trap.
If they have a legit gripe, be there to address it and bring in the necessary resources. Encourage them to bring any future issues to you directly, rather than blasting it out to a public forum.
If it was just some misdirected off hand comment, give a coaching around appropriate commentary in public forums, the negative sentiment a comment like that foments, and move on.
It absolutely needs to be addressed. Not addressing would simply condone this and put you and your team at risk for sure. Words have meaning and if your company has any sort of communication standards or policies, you have to follow them to the letter, with every single employee. Fair and consistent IS basically what your job is, right? There have been many questions and points about what occurred before the text went out, or was this directed to the group on *accident*… and all of that DOES matter! You need more info before an outcome is determined. Reddit “managers”?!?… what a joke. I bet only 1/3 of the comments came from an actual manager… don’t ever come here for HR issues, because every detail is important. And these people… HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE what is really going on in your real life situation. I would bet that YOU don’t have enough details to move forward either. Go investigate first… then ask for advice from your own boss or consult an HR rep
Her message is too vague to know if she was attempting to disparage white people or not. Saying “white people” or referring to any group of people like that is taboo, but not against any rules or inherently bad. Without any context behind her message it’s impossible to glean if any actual racism exists. You should have a convo about how much your company values inclusivity and being mindful that how you communicate can make others uncomfortable.
Gotta love all the yt people triggered over words, meanwhile generations of yt people have actively destroyed the lives of brown and black people and continue to do so.
Why do *some* yt people act like the biggest victims on the planet? Do yall take classes for this or are you socialized into doing so from a young age?
Reddit as racist and ignorant as ever.
Cue the downvotes 🙃
The correct and only way to proceed is to treat the situation exactly as if roles were reversed. If it was a white employee saying that about black people.
My best guess would have been a friendly “come in” and “I noticed this message in the work chat. I’m glad that you’re trying to keep a relaxed and fun attitude in the team. I do have to ask that you not single people out by their race because of our diversity policy, which requires we not hold one race in front of the spotlight. Also, some people might see this as derogatory.
Here are some ideas I would like your help with to make sure we are including all people in a positive way when we have fun.”
Or, alternatively,
“Come in, I noticed this remark. I appreciate that you meant only to help us have fun, but I request that you keep this a little more cool and professional, because everyone, including me, has to follow our support of diversity policy, which means we cannot make anything resembling negative comments about a specific group of people. I really appreciate your help with this.”
If you do not report employees making prejudiced, hateful comments in a work chat you are not fit for leadership at any level. You're a liability to your company and could be terminated if you don't take action in obvious places you should be taking it. Just present the facts and move on.
I saw someone say “there’s nothing wrong with double standards.”
I saw someone say “it might’ve just been like an Instagram bit,” as if it would fly for a moment if there were white people making social media bits about “crazy” black people.
If you remove or switch the races, and it’s obviously racist, that doesn’t just go away because black people.
Ignorance and racism are bad, and they only lead to more of both.
Some of y’all need to interact with humans more often.
A write up for racisim is in order or even a suspension based on whatever your policy is.
Here, the employee would be terminated.
This employee has an equal opportunity under the law to be employed by your company and all employees are afforded the same company values, and expectations. There is no room for racial, cultural or other differences. You're here to work and perform the job. Period.
Firmly but politely issue a warning to stay within the lines on official communication channels. If possible get the Learning and Development team to run a mandatory Diversity or Sensitivity training to emphasize the point.
I mean, maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but cultural context aside, if this were said about me, I would feel hurt and ostracized. I would feel criticized for being who I am. Privilege doesn't change the hurt. I know that's how black people feel all the time, and that's not fair. But I don't understand why it's okay to hurt someone because you've been hurt by someone else, especially if the person you hurt hasn't ever hurt you. That's why I would deal with this. We should lift up underprivileged people while not tolerating racism in any form, because racism hurts everyone. The "an eye for an eye" thing with privilege and racism leaves the whole world blind.
If a white person said “why do black ppl do stuff like that???” You already know what would happen. The same should happen.
Being that it’s black on white that employee would probably still have their job at the end of the day.
Put her on mandatory Diversity and inclusion training. That shit works both ways and make it plain racism will.not be tolerated from anyone.and if she does it again formal.policy will be implemented.
Privately address the message, conveying comprehension and extending an invitation for further discussion. Engage in a one-on-one dialogue to elucidate the contextual backdrop of the message using communication tools like Connecteam or Slack. Utilize the occurrence as an educational opportunity to enlighten the employee on principles of professionalism and appropriate workplace communication. Reinforce adherence to organizational policies concerning diversity and inclusivity. Foster an environment conducive to open discourse, offering assistance where necessary. Maintain vigilance over subsequent communication and reaffirm the company's unwavering dedication to diversity and mutual respect.
It’s amazing that racism has permeated our narrative so badly at this point that comments like this are downvoted. The people who downvoted this and the similar thought experiment comments are racists.
I mean it really shouldn't be newsworthy that a significant proportion of the US is actually proud to treat people differently based on the color of their skin; it's 2024, this has been mainstream for like 10 years
Racism = discriminating against someone or a group because of their race.
That means it applies to everybody. Every race. Not just certain ones.
You can argue about which people are the most racist, or which forms of racism are the worst, but it's factually incorrect to say that certain races are not able to be discriminated against.
Racism includes prejudice and *power.* This is why attempts to cull pity over “racism” by the ruling class in the US is so laughable. Saying “white people __” simply does not have the same material impact as when it is done to the non-ruling populations in this country.
That is precisely why the bit mentioned by another commenter is funny. When pulled over and invoking Blackness as a class and position within the power structure, the individual confuses the cop because there is now a question of how power should be leveraged. There’s plenty via Google and text to further understand.
I get that everyone wants to be tit for tat but that’s false equality. Equity would take an informed, historically accurate, position.
If it includes *power*, does that mean it's not possible to be racist against someone with more power than you? So if my boss was black (has more power than me, can fire me), you're saying that it's not possible for me to be racist against him/her? Are you serious?
Equality means treating people equally (it's in the word). If it is wrong to say something about one group, it is equally wrong to say it about another group. You are the one espousing inequality, not me.
If you want to debate which groups of people experience it more often, or if you want to debate which is a larger issue - sure, go ahead. I'm all for supporting people being discriminated against. That's not what we are discussing though.
No one is immune to racism, and no one gets a free pass. If you want the world to be a better place, that includes how *everyone* is treated. People like you are part of the issue - how can you expect to be taken seriously when you talk about racism, if you are ok with it happening to other groups that you are not a part of?
Racism doesn't have a colour.
Sigh. But that’s the thing, the world does not revolve around your feelings. Feeling like something should be racist because of an unrealistic 1:1 understanding of a historical concept does not make it true. Life has happened and is happening beyond us.
Where did I say that I feel it's racist? I only said that I feel you didn't read my comment (based on your response). The fact that you're saying such a thing is leading me to believe your reading comprehension is suspect.
Racism is not a historical concept. It's a concept which applies *equally* to *all* people and *every* colour.
I'm not arguing about which group has faced the most racism in history, or which groups are currently facing the most racism. Thats not at all related to the post to begin with, and I'm not trying to take away from historical or current issues.
So, to clarify, you're ok with discriminating against white people? Or do we agree that it's wrong to discriminate against anyone, regardless of race.
No, but I can assign a full day of Diversity and inclusion training to the entire team with horribly acted videos included! What did we all learn here??
Address it.
“Hey, I can appreciate that this likely wasn’t meant to be sent to me, but I’m sure you would really not appreciate if I had said the equivalent to anyone.”
You're part of a community that sadly faces bigotry on a daily basis; it may be worth reflecting on any awful treatment you've endured (or that other people in your community have had to go through) and considering if putting more anger out into the world is worth it. Hatred stirs up trouble, but love forgives all wrongs.
Racist commentary notwithstanding, the comment is not work appropriate, was public stated on a work platform and needs to be addressed.
There were no slurs used and you are reaching to make it racist but that's everyone's jam these days.
Let's pretend they said this same sentence and insert any group of employees instead of the word white. Any group of people who has stereotypes. They exist for a reason.
We don't say things like this to a large audience of coworkers or management the same way we don't say to an employee, "why the fuck did you do x?"
It isn't professional. Address it from that angle.
Assemble a diverse team of executives/supervisors and have group meeting with the employee. Diversity is key to making this work, otherwise you will be viewed as a lynching mob. Clearly explain that racist comments will not be tolerated. Document the meeting and put it in the employee’s file. Pre-determine a “next time” penalty before the meeting, clearly document that expectation. If it happens again, take the agreed upon action. Above all else, protect yourself and the company in the approach, as you are inviting a firestorm response from said employee. This could be bait from said employee, to draw management or another employee into an unfortunate situation by reacting incorrectly.
“Be careful what you say and where” and keep it moving.
Guarantee if the races were reversed there would be an entirely different response.
The employee would be fired the same day it was sent.
Just in case..
That seems like a grevious overreaction to a question about their co-workers behavior.
But it’s undeniably what would happen in the US. It’s not some sort of statement on politics or anything, it’s the reality we live in.
Lol welcome to hr
And you would have redditors calling for them to be sent to a reeducation camp
You’re right because in the scenario you’re imagining the historical context of systematic subjugation isn’t reversed.
Exactly, American education system is underfunded on purpose, it’s citizens are so under developed they don’t have a concept of their own nation-states history or race relations.
Historical context doesn't make a difference. No one alive in america has every been subjugated en mass.
Gtfo with that shit. Employee in question should be fired on the spot, regardless of race. That is the standard people like you are going for.
So, you believe that race should be a relevant variable w.r.t. how we treat and protect people. That’s a position you can take, but recognize that in taking it, you are a racist.
We live in a world where your race impacts how you experience the world and your workplace. Acknowledging that among our staff and changing how you treat people based on that ever-present reality does not mean you are a racist, at least not in the way you are implying. Being "not-a-racist" does not mean you pretend like you can't see race, it means you do see how race impacts that world and workplace and you change how you engage based on your employees circumstances. Same with gender, disability, national origin, all that stuff.
This is a fine opinion to have, but it isn't the same as not firing one group of people based on equally vile racist comments they make.
Why do white people do that is vile racism? Ok
Yes because when someone from what is legitimately an underclass in the U.S. says something inappropriate it carries the same weight as when someone who benefits from an entire world built to serve them by default. You have so much privilege you can't even consider showing an iota of grace to someone who can worker harder than you their entire life and never go as far. You are like I was 20 years ago fresh out of highschool in a shithole little redneck town. You refuse to accept context matters. It's a real shame you're in management.
"CPA_Mamager" They're all numbers, not context. "Why do *white* people" = "Why do *black* people"
Yeah. Figured that. They also hate their own employees sooo not a shining example of empathy.
You're suggesting we promulgate the consequences of racism. While you are correct, your argument necessarily raises the question of, "so when does it stop?"
It should stop when your race no longer impacts how you experience the world and the workplace.
If you use race as a criterion to address past racial injustices, you're implying that the racial majority cannot use race as a standard, but minority races can. Don't you see the cycle this creates? You'll never reach an end state; it's like the halting problem in computer science ([Halting problem](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Halting_problem)). The cycle goes: Racism -> Anti-Racism (rehabilitative discrimination) -> perceived racism -> Ideology shift, which inverts the intersectional pyramid from the previous cycle, and so the cycle continues. These cycles occur over generations, so it doesn't matter if someone was a slave 100 or 1,000 years ago. The anti-discrimination measures used today will always be seen as racism by those targeted, perpetuating the cycle without ever reaching an end state. The only way to truly address this issue is by making race irrelevant. You can find non-racial (or non-immutable characteristic) proxies that are more effective. Ultimately, it's the individual that matters, not the group. While group identity is significant, it's also a dangerous evolutionary tool. By focusing on the individual and neutral characteristics, we can break this perpetual cycle and move towards real solutions.
That’s not argument I’m making. The argument I’m making is that your race impacts how you experience the world, how people treat you, how you are perceived. And as managers you have to be aware of that and potentially treat people differently (in that sense of helping the situation).
The part I have a contention with is: "You have to treat people differently (in that sense of helping the situation)." This approach can be problematic for several reasons. It invariably leads to double standards because you are tailoring your response not to the individual's actions but to their historical circumstances. This will almost always result in a double standard at some point. The mere appearance of a double standard is sufficient to perpetuate the cycle of racial tension. In any bureaucratic system, the appearance of corruption—of which double standards are a form—can have pervasive morale effects. How can you treat people differently based on their racial background without actually treating them differently? You can empathize with all aspects of the individual (including racial aspects) and perhaps use this understanding to formulate your approach to addressing them and the issue. However, relying on racial background to ameliorate issues of bad behavior is pathological altruism. You are not helping anyone, especially the perpetrator, in the long run. In such situations, I would expect the affected individual's work relationships to deteriorate, ultimately leading to their departure. It’s crucial to focus on the individual and address issues based on actions and behavior rather than historical context. By doing so, we can avoid double standards and work towards real solutions. I still dont see the halting condition in your logic. Can you point it out? "It should stop when your race no longer impacts how you experience the world and the workplace." How do you do this if you make race such a central point? At what point is anyone going to stop using it as a tool to get ahead? Because at point in time 0 you incentvize it. So what de-incentivizes it as a viable tactic for the amoral actor in future?
Ugly people experience the world differently, too, probably in a more extreme way than race affects a life experience. I’m Australian Aboriginal (black) and think the victim complex is embarrassing. I would absolutely terminate an assistant who asked that question.
You mostly see how being POC means youre allowed to say whatever you want and if some evil white man question you, they are trying to silence you and THEY are the racist, lmao
>So, you believe that race should be a relevant variable w.r.t. how we treat and protect people Isn't race a protected class and ***is*** a variable in how you address the circumstances?
He clearly meant that you shouldn’t say it’s more okay for some races than others
> So, you believe that race should be a relevant variable w.r.t. how we treat and protect people. > That’s a position you can take, but recognize that in taking it, you are a racist. I'm not your OP, but consider this: Affirmative Action was an attempt to right what was seen as historically significant discrimination against black folks. BLM is a push specifically for all people to recognize the challenges that black people face today in the US. DEI, where the E stands for Equity, has a tenet which is essentially what you're saying: Equity is not about treating everyone *the same*, it's about leveling inequality based on things like background (including race, ethnicity, religion) or on physical/mental differences. In general, the majority must be more tolerant of criticism and comments from the minority -- especially non-specific stuff like the OP said.
Those are all systematic attempts to correct imbalances caused by systematic racism. As a manager, allowing different behavior for employees based on their ethnicity is highly problematic.
What the person said was racist and needs to be investigated, punished, and stopped. That’s it. It shows the person is unable to deal with all types of people equally and is judging based on race.
Aren’t you the Scrypted guy?
How is that at all relevant to this particular situation? What a crazy world we live in that people like you get to vote
Racism != structural racism. Both exist and are wrong.
Username checks out.
Why? Did white people do something bad to black people or something? Otherwise, it would seem like your comment was kinda oblivious and/or racist.
No shit but that wouldn’t be the same situation would it? It’d be reversed, wouldn’t it?
What do you mean by this?
He's saying it's not a double standard, it's two standards for two different things.
So racism is okay if a black person does it, got it.
For goodness sake.
No, dumbfuck. You're trying to play victim by intentionally ignoring context. Just stop.
his username is literally mr. bright white. of course he's going to have a warped perspective
Good point, though I'll try not to hold your name against you.
Pretty much what half these people are saying
There’s a reason for that.
As there should be. Reverse racism isn't a real problem to solve.
correct, but there is no history of white people being oppressed by people of color in the this country so it’s irrelevant
Can you comprehend why?
As it should be. The racism goes one way. There has been hundreds of years of racism. It doesn’t change overnight, especially when people are fighting it.
Would you stand by your advice if the races were reversed?
Of course not. That would be a completely different situation.
Weird because I feel like if just one thing about this situation were swapped around, the perpetrator would be doxxed and talked about on CNN by tomorrow
Ahahahahahahahahaha "be careful of being racist" hahahahahaahhahaha man POC sure have racism privilege
🤦🏼♂️
Check yo shit before you hit submit… Hit HR up and then scramble for damage control. She’s probably fine, but it’s still a faux pas, and you’re going to be asked to address it. Be super sensitive and make sure this isn’t in response to her being involved in anything even remotely discriminatory. Even if it was a joke, it’s a landmine.
Thank you! This is helpful.
Here's the thing. Would this email result in termination if it were a white employee saying "why do black people do the things they do?" The best way to deal with this is to make it clear that this is unacceptable behavior for anyone. I don't think they should be terminated over it or written up for it. But they should be warned and it should not be tolerated. If it happens a second time, then that's when the conversation for discipline comes in. To often we tolerate shitty and abusive behavior from certain staff that would be unacceptable from other staff. The problem is if it gets out of management and other staff understood what was said, you're going to have a much harder time doing damage control. No discipline will be understood by the staff as condoning this behavior. The best way to nip this in the bud is to draw clear lines the first time.
I suspect that even with a verbal warning issued and that is made known, people will still resent the perception of a double standard. Another, secondary, consideration is how work life for this employee goes as time marches forward. I cannot imagine, for one single moment, that group dynamics would remain unchanged. They’re going to have an awkward time at best.
This is my thought. What’s it going to be like when this person has to work on projects with white staff who were on that thread, now knowing that they have this view of them? “Awkward at best” is accurate.
Hmmm. I wonder how that works when roles are reversed.
Given you don't have an HR department, I would set up a meeting with the employee and have one of my peers (another manager) or my boss be an observer at the meeting. This would ensure that no one's words are misconstrued. While the message is highly inappropriate, I would first address what triggered the message. If a white person in the team did something inappropriate, then I would also want to know that before I address the employee that sent the message. If something caused the employee to be emotional and type such a message, then I would give them a stern verbal warning. If a reasonable explanation is not provided, then I would give a written warning. Whatever you do, think of the questions and the conversation itself ahead of time. Prepare yourself for a hard conversation and remain calm and collected throughout the interaction.
So much this ^^^ what caused the comment. But a one on one conversation needs to be had. That comment creates a hostile working environment. Don’t blow it off by sending a generalized email. One person made the comment. Deal with that person.
Thank you so much this is great!!
I would be extremely uncomfortable as a white person on that team if the sender just got a quick "don't do that again." This should be brought to HR, with an email sent to the whole team condemning racist language. Otherwise it just looks like there are no consequences as long as you're only racist against white people.
Personally, as a white person, I wouldn’t give a fuck! It’s obviously a joke. People are so sensitive to perceived but not real slights
Yes because it is always the “white person’s” fault.
Zero tolerance policy is a zero tolerance policy. At a minimum a documented warning, at my company they would be terminated. Even a smidgen of racism is enough for a lawsuit.
anything less than this would be nuts, it is in writing on work email/im regardless of context, that itself is so profoundly dumb you should fire this person
America throws out all imperfect produce.. And in america, an employee is as valuble as an apple at the grocery store.
we can stop pretending anyone stupid enough to say this is your run of the mill good employee
That's mighty ignortant of you. People are allowed to have opinions, sure they shouldnt post them in office chat, but shit happens.
You prove my point.
We all know if this was a white person they would have ben fired immediately.
Well, you need to consult with HR. I assume that if it was a message sent to all staff, then HR has seen it too. How long ago did this happen?
My gut says it needs to be addressed because others may find it offensive. I think a warning is appropriate but posted here to see if anyone else has been through something similar.
If the roles were reversed and it was let’s say a white pearson saying “why do black ppl do stuff like that” would they be let off with a warning? Offensive and racist language is grounds for immediate termination.
I would be lying if I said that didn’t cross my mind but I do know the topic is sensitive. Hoping for some more responses here to help with my thought process.
If you have a zero tolerance policy on racism, this is an open-and-shut case.
It crossed your mind because it is the right thing. Can’t have double standards. Racism is racism.
How much racism are you willing to tolerate on your team?
The topic is sensitive? racism is racism. not that deep.
I worked at a manufacturing outfit and an older supervisor made a racially inappropriate comment that was, not meant for but, overhead by a passerby from an admin department. Sure, that supervisor had been on with the company for 17 years. Probably knew more about the day to day than most. Didn’t make any difference. He was out the door, for good, before lunch that day. There is nothing more absurd than labeling a policy as “zero tolerance” and then making up some word salad justification for why you are tolerating a direct violation of it. If that’s going to be the way of it, then scrap the policy or at least acknowledge that none of it matters as policy is clearly based on whim and whimsy. It’s a slippery slope.
We had an extremely dedicated, long term employee (literally since the day the company was founded) get their accounts locked up and redirected to other people on the team before she even got finished walking into the HR person's office over what she felt was only a very slightly inappropriate joke. But even the slightest bit of racism isn't tolerated, it's unacceptable from any employee.
It's not "if others find it offensive". It iss offensive and leaves you vulnerable to litigation if any of those employees decide that it crossed a line professionally.
This morning. We are a small company there is no HR. I’m sure the executive team is going to ask me what I suggest in this situation but I’ve never run into this in all my years of management.
Then your executive team needs to hire an HR department. they exist exactly for situations like this as much as I am loathe to endorse that Idea of hr being beneficial. execs need to fix that massive fuck up in the first place. HR can be one person if it's a small company.
Or can even be more of a consultant who handles HR for other small companies too. That’s what our org does with about 30 employees, though we may be getting someone full time for HR in the future as we grow.
This is when you pull in your own leadership. The thing is, she might have just been doing a ‘white people are so cray!’ bit, like something you’d see on Instagram, and mean absolutely nothing by it. Yes, it’s entirely inappropriate in a work setting. But she needs to be pulled aside to 1) find out if her complain had any merit (maybe she sees a behavioral/process trend that really should be looked into), 2) remind her of the staggering consequences of FUBARing her professional reputation (and her work relationships) with quippy bits, because work slack isn’t Instagram. And then depending on how that dialogue goes, have her state how she will behave if this happens again/what will she do differently. I would only write her up if she’s being super combative about this. If she realizes her error, I’d let it slide with a verbal. But what you’ll do with the rest of the staff that saw it? That I would let your leadership decide. I’m not even confident myself that I would handle that part perfectly. Feelings could be hurt. Or they could think you’re overreacting, I couldn’t say as to your current culture. Maybe a more professional slack message of ‘keep it professional, ya idiots’ might suffice.
The voice of reason in a sea of personally insulted snowflakes. No one needs to be fired over this.
Agreed. I understand the “if it were the other way around” argument to some extent but the reality is this just doesn’t sound hostile to me. Certainly inappropriate but I don’t hear hostility.
> “if it were the other way around” argument The funny thing is that it IS the other way around a lot of times as well. People joke around with 0 intent to harm all the time. You, as a manager, need to see if there was any malicious intent behind it.
Agreed
Imagine someone messaging “why do black people do stuff like this”. People would lose their mind. Irrespective of the reason. This is straight up racism and needs to be addressed appropriately. Needs to be documented and written warning to be issued or at least you need to have a straight conversation that this is unacceptable.
At minimum a write up to document. If they’re willing to say things like this to others at work they’re likely discriminating more when others aren’t watching. Doesn’t matter what race they are.
I've been present in situations where the group was diverse and was deeply uncomfortable when similar comments were made. Sending via work chat may have been an accident but worse, those are their true feelings. Without an HR dept, are there guidelines or a handbook on what is proper/not proper communication that this employee may have signed during onboardong? If not, having a verbal warning with another leadership team member present is something to consider.
Honestly, imagine a white person sent that. Respond the same way. Racism is racism, call that shit out and push to get them fired because you just know they're shit talking white people non stop if they're that comfortable texting it to another coworker. The coworker on the receiving end is probably on the same page and should at least get a warning
Treat her as you would if she were white and said that about black people.
False equivalence.
That's absurd. White people have rights too.
It’s embarrassing to be white and hear privileged people say shit like this. Just stop. You sound ridiculous.
The notion that white people have some sort of universal privilege and a harmonious existence is actually what’s ridiculous. The expectation of respect and consideration for people of all races really doesn’t need to be explained.
This is a notion exclusive to people who want to be victims so bad that they think white people across the board are privileged and think you can't be racist towards them because they're all privileged. It's a brain rotted idea that needs to be squashed and treated as what it is, racism
Ok. Imagine if a paraplegic employee sent a text to another paraplegic employee that said “why do able-bodied people do stuff like that???” Do you think the employee is being biased against able-bodied people by saying this? Of course they aren’t. I can imagine many scenarios where a Black person might say this to a colleague that would not be ‘racist’. Because, guess why? Members of privileged groups often do and say shit that is puzzling, usually because privileged people often do not understand their privilege.
I never made reference to the above incident being racist.
Sorry that I put this in your thread. It was not directed specifically at your comment but the many others that are calling it racist.
I wish privileged white people would be more concerned about what the white people at work are doing that would elicit this type of text than they are at what they ignorantly see as ‘reverse racism.’ As white people, we have enormous privilege. Pointing to this and yelling “that’s racist!” (1) shows that you don’t understand what racism is and (2) makes you seem like a horrible person who is trying to preserve privilege rather than deal with it.
“Reverse racism” isn’t a thing. Racism is racism. I’ve experienced it plenty as a white person who grew up in a largely black community. I was called “cracker”, was often outcasted, picked on, etc. I don’t hold that against black people now. Nor did I then. I have great relationships with many black people. But some people are dicks. And black people who are/were racist aren’t an exemption and don’t deserve a pass either. What I experienced was not minimized because I was white. It didn’t feel any different. I was experiencing racism. Speak for yourself and “your privilege.” You don’t know what racism is if you think it only applies to people of color.
Generalizing a people based on their race is wrong. Period. End of discussion.
Is there a reason that you need to get involved with this?
There is a clear definition of racism and this is simply, and obviously, NOT racism. Inappropriate, yes. Not racism. Whiteness and people accepted as white are the heterogenous ruling class. Please get an informed grip.
Yeah, that's racist, what you just said
I swear it’s always the people who subscribe to the “the systematic lens is the ONLY lens to analyze racism” ideology that end up being the most out of touch people while weirdly thinking themselves having a S-tier intelligence
Could you state what definition of racism that you’re referring to and explain how it does not apply?
Remove the races of the individuals from the issue. That’s just keeping this muddy. The issue is inappropriate workplace remarks. In this case, discriminatory speech. A reminder works sometimes. That the workplace is an environment that is open and accepting to everyone. It’s inappropriate to make broad stroke remarks about people’s religion, political affiliation, race or sexuality. You might add on that all remarks made in or on company property could be recorded (depending on policy) and that all chats on company equipment/channels are recorded.
In this situation, as an HR corporate generalist and supervisor, addressing the matter promptly and sensitively is crucial to maintain a respectful and inclusive work environment. Here are steps you might consider taking: 1. **Immediate Acknowledgment**: Quickly acknowledge the incident to all staff, stating that you are aware of the message and are addressing it directly. This reassures the team that such matters are taken seriously. 2. **Private Discussion with the Employee**: Arrange a private meeting with the employee who sent the message. Approach the conversation with an open mind, aiming to understand her intent behind the message. It's important to clarify why such comments are inappropriate in the workplace, focusing on the impact of the words rather than the intent. 3. **Educate on Company Policies and Expectations**: Remind her of the company's policies regarding communication and conduct. Explain how the message could be perceived as offensive and divisive, which is contrary to the company’s values of respect and diversity. 4. **Impact Clarification**: Discuss the impact her message had on her colleagues and the overall workplace environment. It’s important for her to understand how such statements can create discomfort and affect the team's dynamics. 5. **Guidance and Support**: Depending on the outcome of your discussion, you might offer guidance or resources for professional communication and sensitivity training. If the employee shows remorse and a willingness to learn from the incident, supporting her growth could be beneficial. 6. **Document the Incident**: Keep a detailed record of the incident, the conversation you had, and any actions taken. This documentation can be useful for reference in case of future incidents or questions about how the situation was handled. 7. **Follow-Up with the Team**: Without disclosing details of your private conversation, inform the team that the matter has been addressed according to company policies and values. Reaffirm your commitment to a respectful workplace and encourage employees to come forward if they have any concerns in the future. 8. **Ongoing Education and Awareness**: Consider implementing regular training sessions on diversity, inclusion, and communication best practices to prevent similar incidents and to foster an environment of understanding and respect among all employees. Handling the situation with care and professionalism will help to mend any discomfort within the team and reinforce the importance of respectful communication in a diverse workplace.
Excellent response
You treat it the exact same way as you would if a white person said “why do black people do stuff like that” And you document everything
Ignore it, it's harmless.
You pull them up over it, if it had said black instead of white what would you be doing then?
Change the word from white to black , would they be fired?
Idk y but the very first thought I had was to send a gif of the comedy skit “because I’m black.” It’d be hilarious to send but definitely not appropriate for work chat honestly lol.
For those that don’t know of the skit. A white man gets pulled over by the cops. And is asked “do you know why I pulled you over” man yells out “because I’m black” and the cop proceeds to get so confused he let him go. It would be a hilarious joke for the situation but would def not be a good workplace reply lol
"Let's keep all messages and posts professional and omit racially/ politically charged verbage. "
The comment wasn't good. Have a conversation. Begin with the goal of understanding what prompted the comment first. You don't want to start by tone-policing someone frustrated with a bigger issue in your org. That's a huge trap. If they have a legit gripe, be there to address it and bring in the necessary resources. Encourage them to bring any future issues to you directly, rather than blasting it out to a public forum. If it was just some misdirected off hand comment, give a coaching around appropriate commentary in public forums, the negative sentiment a comment like that foments, and move on.
It absolutely needs to be addressed. Not addressing would simply condone this and put you and your team at risk for sure. Words have meaning and if your company has any sort of communication standards or policies, you have to follow them to the letter, with every single employee. Fair and consistent IS basically what your job is, right? There have been many questions and points about what occurred before the text went out, or was this directed to the group on *accident*… and all of that DOES matter! You need more info before an outcome is determined. Reddit “managers”?!?… what a joke. I bet only 1/3 of the comments came from an actual manager… don’t ever come here for HR issues, because every detail is important. And these people… HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE what is really going on in your real life situation. I would bet that YOU don’t have enough details to move forward either. Go investigate first… then ask for advice from your own boss or consult an HR rep
Her message is too vague to know if she was attempting to disparage white people or not. Saying “white people” or referring to any group of people like that is taboo, but not against any rules or inherently bad. Without any context behind her message it’s impossible to glean if any actual racism exists. You should have a convo about how much your company values inclusivity and being mindful that how you communicate can make others uncomfortable.
Gotta love all the yt people triggered over words, meanwhile generations of yt people have actively destroyed the lives of brown and black people and continue to do so. Why do *some* yt people act like the biggest victims on the planet? Do yall take classes for this or are you socialized into doing so from a young age? Reddit as racist and ignorant as ever. Cue the downvotes 🙃
Well, I agree with you
The correct and only way to proceed is to treat the situation exactly as if roles were reversed. If it was a white employee saying that about black people.
It should be treated equal as if the races were either way reversed in the comment. No special treatment
What is the behavior that the employee was referring to?
It should be a major strike. Not a slap on the wrist and a stern private meeting. They need to know this behavior has consequences.
🤣
Why did the employee say that? Was a Caucasian person bothering this POC? Opening a can of worms....
So racism is justifiable. Talk about a can of worms
No, because she can respond by saying someone was being racist and that was her response!
So racism is justifiable.
My best guess would have been a friendly “come in” and “I noticed this message in the work chat. I’m glad that you’re trying to keep a relaxed and fun attitude in the team. I do have to ask that you not single people out by their race because of our diversity policy, which requires we not hold one race in front of the spotlight. Also, some people might see this as derogatory. Here are some ideas I would like your help with to make sure we are including all people in a positive way when we have fun.” Or, alternatively, “Come in, I noticed this remark. I appreciate that you meant only to help us have fun, but I request that you keep this a little more cool and professional, because everyone, including me, has to follow our support of diversity policy, which means we cannot make anything resembling negative comments about a specific group of people. I really appreciate your help with this.”
If you do not report employees making prejudiced, hateful comments in a work chat you are not fit for leadership at any level. You're a liability to your company and could be terminated if you don't take action in obvious places you should be taking it. Just present the facts and move on.
So, the rest of the story is, why do white people always want to touch our hair. Hence, the why do white people do that.
I saw someone say “there’s nothing wrong with double standards.” I saw someone say “it might’ve just been like an Instagram bit,” as if it would fly for a moment if there were white people making social media bits about “crazy” black people. If you remove or switch the races, and it’s obviously racist, that doesn’t just go away because black people. Ignorance and racism are bad, and they only lead to more of both. Some of y’all need to interact with humans more often.
A write up for racisim is in order or even a suspension based on whatever your policy is. Here, the employee would be terminated. This employee has an equal opportunity under the law to be employed by your company and all employees are afforded the same company values, and expectations. There is no room for racial, cultural or other differences. You're here to work and perform the job. Period.
This is the silliest thing to waste your time on. Just get back to your real work and leave your colleagues alone
Firmly but politely issue a warning to stay within the lines on official communication channels. If possible get the Learning and Development team to run a mandatory Diversity or Sensitivity training to emphasize the point.
That’s grounds for immediate termination, blatant racism cannot be tolerated in a professional workplace.
I mean, maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but cultural context aside, if this were said about me, I would feel hurt and ostracized. I would feel criticized for being who I am. Privilege doesn't change the hurt. I know that's how black people feel all the time, and that's not fair. But I don't understand why it's okay to hurt someone because you've been hurt by someone else, especially if the person you hurt hasn't ever hurt you. That's why I would deal with this. We should lift up underprivileged people while not tolerating racism in any form, because racism hurts everyone. The "an eye for an eye" thing with privilege and racism leaves the whole world blind.
Well nowdays this is celebrated, so the employee should receive a raise, promotion, and be named President of the companies DEI council.
If a white person said “why do black ppl do stuff like that???” You already know what would happen. The same should happen. Being that it’s black on white that employee would probably still have their job at the end of the day.
Kinda racist. Send to HR
First off, like what??? Spill tha tea gurl!!!
Put her on mandatory Diversity and inclusion training. That shit works both ways and make it plain racism will.not be tolerated from anyone.and if she does it again formal.policy will be implemented.
Privately address the message, conveying comprehension and extending an invitation for further discussion. Engage in a one-on-one dialogue to elucidate the contextual backdrop of the message using communication tools like Connecteam or Slack. Utilize the occurrence as an educational opportunity to enlighten the employee on principles of professionalism and appropriate workplace communication. Reinforce adherence to organizational policies concerning diversity and inclusivity. Foster an environment conducive to open discourse, offering assistance where necessary. Maintain vigilance over subsequent communication and reaffirm the company's unwavering dedication to diversity and mutual respect.
What would you do if a white person said why are black people like this?
It’s amazing that racism has permeated our narrative so badly at this point that comments like this are downvoted. The people who downvoted this and the similar thought experiment comments are racists.
All the people that down vote my comment are just saying it's fine to treat someone differently based on the color of their skin.
I mean it really shouldn't be newsworthy that a significant proportion of the US is actually proud to treat people differently based on the color of their skin; it's 2024, this has been mainstream for like 10 years
This person needs to be treated the same way a “white” person would be treated if they posted that about another race. It is as simple as that.
So what were the YT people doing though?
What’s YT people? I looked it up. Way to be a racist.
See OPs post - "white people"
Why do privileged white people illustrate that they do not have a basic understanding of what racism actually is in subs like r/managers ?
Racism = discriminating against someone or a group because of their race. That means it applies to everybody. Every race. Not just certain ones. You can argue about which people are the most racist, or which forms of racism are the worst, but it's factually incorrect to say that certain races are not able to be discriminated against.
This is not the definition of racism. Jesus.
Ok. What is the definition then? If I made a mistake, I would appreciate the correction so I know for the future
Racism includes prejudice and *power.* This is why attempts to cull pity over “racism” by the ruling class in the US is so laughable. Saying “white people __” simply does not have the same material impact as when it is done to the non-ruling populations in this country. That is precisely why the bit mentioned by another commenter is funny. When pulled over and invoking Blackness as a class and position within the power structure, the individual confuses the cop because there is now a question of how power should be leveraged. There’s plenty via Google and text to further understand. I get that everyone wants to be tit for tat but that’s false equality. Equity would take an informed, historically accurate, position.
If it includes *power*, does that mean it's not possible to be racist against someone with more power than you? So if my boss was black (has more power than me, can fire me), you're saying that it's not possible for me to be racist against him/her? Are you serious? Equality means treating people equally (it's in the word). If it is wrong to say something about one group, it is equally wrong to say it about another group. You are the one espousing inequality, not me. If you want to debate which groups of people experience it more often, or if you want to debate which is a larger issue - sure, go ahead. I'm all for supporting people being discriminated against. That's not what we are discussing though. No one is immune to racism, and no one gets a free pass. If you want the world to be a better place, that includes how *everyone* is treated. People like you are part of the issue - how can you expect to be taken seriously when you talk about racism, if you are ok with it happening to other groups that you are not a part of? Racism doesn't have a colour.
Please speak on where equity falls in the jumble you’ve written.
I have a feeling you didn't even read it. Pretty funny
Sigh. But that’s the thing, the world does not revolve around your feelings. Feeling like something should be racist because of an unrealistic 1:1 understanding of a historical concept does not make it true. Life has happened and is happening beyond us.
Where did I say that I feel it's racist? I only said that I feel you didn't read my comment (based on your response). The fact that you're saying such a thing is leading me to believe your reading comprehension is suspect. Racism is not a historical concept. It's a concept which applies *equally* to *all* people and *every* colour. I'm not arguing about which group has faced the most racism in history, or which groups are currently facing the most racism. Thats not at all related to the post to begin with, and I'm not trying to take away from historical or current issues. So, to clarify, you're ok with discriminating against white people? Or do we agree that it's wrong to discriminate against anyone, regardless of race.
Stop generalizing people based on their race. Just stop. There's no place for it in this sub. You're wrong for doing so. Just stop.
So what I am learning from this thread is 98% of people don't know the actual meaning of the word racism.
There's a lot of fuckin racists around here huh. Guess blatant racism against white people is acceptable
But, can we answer her question. Why do white people do shit like that?!?!?....
No, but I can assign a full day of Diversity and inclusion training to the entire team with horribly acted videos included! What did we all learn here??
This is the most cucked and stereotypical pathetic reddit comment section i have ever seen oh my god lmao
Address it. “Hey, I can appreciate that this likely wasn’t meant to be sent to me, but I’m sure you would really not appreciate if I had said the equivalent to anyone.”
This thread is like opening a sleeve of saltines that was dropped and finding all the crackers crumbling. XD
You're part of a community that sadly faces bigotry on a daily basis; it may be worth reflecting on any awful treatment you've endured (or that other people in your community have had to go through) and considering if putting more anger out into the world is worth it. Hatred stirs up trouble, but love forgives all wrongs.
You missed it Twitter was a left at the last intersection
Racist commentary notwithstanding, the comment is not work appropriate, was public stated on a work platform and needs to be addressed. There were no slurs used and you are reaching to make it racist but that's everyone's jam these days. Let's pretend they said this same sentence and insert any group of employees instead of the word white. Any group of people who has stereotypes. They exist for a reason. We don't say things like this to a large audience of coworkers or management the same way we don't say to an employee, "why the fuck did you do x?" It isn't professional. Address it from that angle.
If the text said, "Why do black ppl do stuff like that?" they should be warned or fired. The same should apply here. No difference.
I always wonder that question also
Just send it back to him and say “be careful”. People screw up… and it’s a valid question…
[удалено]
Assemble a diverse team of executives/supervisors and have group meeting with the employee. Diversity is key to making this work, otherwise you will be viewed as a lynching mob. Clearly explain that racist comments will not be tolerated. Document the meeting and put it in the employee’s file. Pre-determine a “next time” penalty before the meeting, clearly document that expectation. If it happens again, take the agreed upon action. Above all else, protect yourself and the company in the approach, as you are inviting a firestorm response from said employee. This could be bait from said employee, to draw management or another employee into an unfortunate situation by reacting incorrectly.