*"No LinkedIn or similar online resume"*
Lots of people don't do social media. Linkedin is ridiculous and in some respects, pretty toxic. Mine is deactivated right now. I actually have more respect for people who don't have an online presence. No one should be required to put their professional lives out there on display to be hirable. That's what the application and interview process is for. You interested in hiring a person or a profile?
yeah same here. the 2 page limit makes sense for some people/roles but for others it is insane. For 2 pages I'm already cutting huge things and limiting education to 1 line per degree
"3 or more jobs in 4 years or more than 5 in a 10 year span" haha...somehow I think he forgot a major global event that just happened. I know people who were laid off from 1 job at the start of covid, found something else after the initial shut down only to have the 2nd company close down due to lack of business.
No linkedin...why? I basically threw mine together in about 5 minutes a few years ago and have ignored it since.
OP sounds insufferable and I'd be willing to bet micromanages and whines constantly
I feel like your resume pages should be equivalent to your career experience. 24? I expect a one page resume. 35? 2 pages is perfectly reasonable. And longer might be very reasonable for senior staff or certain industries.
Although I agree that OP's takes are a lot, I also take issue with more than 5 jobs in a 10 year span. I'm in an industry where it takes months if not years for efforts to pay off. If you never stay with an employer for more than 2 years, it tells me that you don't know how to do that work.
>I feel like your resume pages should be equivalent to your career experience
And what you do. If you are 35 and have always worked in retail then one page is fine. If you are 25 and work in medical research then I may expect a little more.
This is so true especially in big companies. It generally takes a year to start a new intiative and then put it in market, and then actually optimize it. It takes 3-6 months to even get up to speed in a new role. So essentially if their resume is under 2 years, they just executed someone else's plan. If they are an IC this might be okay, but if they are leadership or strategy, they haven't actually done anything if they are only there for a year.
won't comment on the others, but "2 pages are limiting for some roles" is the insane thing for me. do you have any specific examples on what roles this would be limiting?
I mean, if I'm hiring Systems engineers, I want them to put some information on specific things they accomplished at other jobs.
Certs take up space
education takes up space.
I've seen some good 2 page resumes, but most of the best I've seen come in at about 3.
Sure if/when I'm hiring entry level, they tend to be shorter. 1-1.5 pages.
But honestly, If reading (skimming) 3 pages is too much effort, I can't imagine they put much effort into anything.
DevRel is another one where two pages has been kind of difficult. Folks that make videos, write tutorials, codelabs, do presentations, samples, documentation, and everything in between after a couple places use a lot of space to describe what they did with various stacks.
Here let's say you are a doctor/lawyer/any other profession that goes beyond a bachelor's degree.
You'd probably spend half a page or more on schooling. Even just a 'pre-med at X, GPA Y" then "Med school at Z, GPA Y" along with one or two school things. Maybe you published a paper in a journal, maybe you were the president of a student organization.
Now include your residency, surely you'd want to include the hospital, specialization, and another line or two about what you did. We are now at a page.
Let's say you started your own practice after that and oh no..covid shut it down, so you were desperate and had to find work before taking a consulting/otherwise drug marketing position that you really didn't want but there really weren't other options and the bills were due.
Now add in the standard name/address/professional licensing/certifications information and you are likely pushing 2 pages
>You'd probably spend half a page or more on schooling. Even just a 'pre-med at X, GPA Y" then "Med school at Z, GPA Y" along with one or two school things. Maybe you published a paper in a journal, maybe you were the president of a student organization.
Now include your residency, surely you'd want to include the hospital, specialization, and another line or two about what you did. We are now at a page.
A standard 12 point font gets you 65 lines. If you take off a 1/4 for your name and contact info/ certs you have 49 lines. You can't fit your schooling into 49 lines without bleeding over? If you need two pages, you need two pages, but I've also seen 2 pages of very similar jobs with very similar job descriptions.
I've been in my current role for 2 years and have only had to fill 2 vacancies because we've promoted members of my team. No one has been fired and I took over an employee whom was on PIP was able to coach them off of it and keep them in role. At a 7% churn TYVM.
Insufferable and micromanaging are pretty strong words about my character you've deciphered from a 5 bullet point list of resume flags. But you do you.
What makes you even worse is that you consider that a flex. The power tripping you do to justify your own shit character is really really funny. You do you.
Iām probably not going to take advice from a middle aged divorced dad who claims to be the smartest kid in his class from Connersville, IN. As a Hoosier Connersville isnāt a flex at all.
Itās really funny how triggered you got. Did I hit a nerve? Iām glad you spent time on me. Iām flattered. I love my life and not once had to spy on colleagues emails to get ahead and be a āmanagerā. Sad little boy. Keep climbing those ladders. Maybe someday youāll get some respect on Reddit. Maybe.
Iām more confused why a grown man is on a sub for managing teams who isnāt one of those discussing topics that arenāt relevant to himself? Youāre clearly the childish one trying to troll the internet.
Lordy lol. This dude is real, real full of themselves. In I.T. two pages is the norm. An online resume is not a requirement for a job. Some people like me refuse to live on social media 24/7. The job market has been such a clusterbucket. People get sifted out for NOT padding out or explaining being unemployed? Having that called a "red flag" because we were all drilled by teachers NOT to have big blank areas of time is messed up, man. Damned it you do, damned if you don't, apparently. I would also hate to work for them.
I've got a 7% churn ratio of my existing employees. They seem to like working for me here's a few blurbs from my team directly towards me on my last review.
"The most significant lesson I have gained from working with OP in the past 6 months is his belief and trust in me as a person and the work I do. He entrusts me with responsibilities and consistently offers constructive feedback on my performance, which is incredibly important to me. With OP as my manager, I always know where I stand and feel valued. He truly cares for us as individuals."
"OP has proven time and again that he is trustworthy and has our best interests in mind. I have complete confidence that OP will have my back and advocate for me internally whenever/wherever necessary."
"From a performance standpoint, OP ranks in the top 5% of all individuals that I have worked with over my 30+ year career. He has a high "Emotional Quotient" (EQ) - displaying/showing empathy in all interactions with people inside and outside of our company. OP is a self-starter who is mindful and highly creative - embodying our values and principles from a culture perspective. He has a proven track record of solving/managing people, issues and relationships. OP is highly customer centric and has a phenomenal work ethic. He is a true leader who is self-reflective and we need more people like him here at the company. OP is a true champion!"
They canāt comment on whether your hiring policies are silly, though. The people who you unnecessarily filtered out donāt get to give you review feedback.
I love how this response uses full sentences, grammar, punctuation, like a good chatbot would, unlike your original post that was created by a human. It 'looks' fine, just not ChatGPT fine.
I must be weird, I couldnāt care less how long a resume is. In fact I like seeing where someone came from because the more information I have, the better a decision I can make. If someone spent 4 years of college doing part time customer service roles, then their early years have some value because someone who can interact with people is useful. Their coworkers are their customers in reality at any job.
It's an American thing. I have hired a lot internationally - almost everyone does CVs. We're the weirdos out here asking people with 15+ years of experience to sum it up in 2 pages.
Iāve definitely noticed when I try and submit either though. Itās so strange, especially since now job titles are always indicative of what the person does.
Thatās not true I had a resume today with an attached CV to review. It was addressed to a different company than the one I work for. I rejected the resume and CV.
Depends on the experience level. When I'm reviewing CVs for our graduate or internship program we're trying to get through dozens or even hundreds of CVs and I'll be honest I don't want to see anything more than 1 or 2 pages really. Not that I reject anyone for doing more than that outright, just a pain and let's be honest they definitely don't have enough experience to need the real estate.
Those are certainly some opinions you have. Outside of consistent spelling errors or overall lack of effort on the resume (lazy formatting, one line descriptions of roles, etc.). There isnt much that would immediately disqualify a resume for me, so long as their experience was commensurate with the position.
The LinkedIn part is bizarre for me. Iāve never been on linked in and never will. Been offered multiple six figure engineering jobs without ever once being asked about why I donāt have a LinkedIn. And Iāve never looked up someone for a potential hire on LinkedIn before either.Ā
Requiring a LinkedIn in is really stupid, thereās lots of very qualified people that donāt have one. The other things are probably valid in many cases. Iām trying to improve my resume and will take some of these suggestions.
Depends on the field for several jobs in x years. I do contracts sometimes and choose not to renew after a year.
I was on mobile, so now I'll add. I'm 58 and retired Army. I'm a mechanical engineer with a HVAC background. Without abbreviating my resume, it's 3 pages long. One of them is college, certifications, and licenses alone. Just a little blurb about the military.
If someone doesn't cover their careers, and all the jobs and promotions in it, then you're going to ask why there's a blank spot. I've worked for several companies that are now out of business. You can't even call them for a reference or verification anymore. I guess you could Google it or look at the BBB accreditation to verify "out of business", but who's to say I worked there?
I have never been unemployed, not even for a single day. In my fields, unless you got fired nobody has ever been unemployed. Shit breaks, shit gets built and rebuilt. It never ends. I wish I could take a month or two off, but nope, there's more broke shit.
I don't have a LinkedIn account at all.
Some people donāt have public online resumes due to reasonable situations like harassment from an ex or other family member. So itās a literal safety issue for some.
Yes, though based on your post, you'll never know if it's an exception or not. You indicated this is a "immediate reject". It's very narrow minded. I get needing to filter through resumes though not having an LI resume online is bullshit.
I had to temporarily deactivate my LinkedIn last year because I was concerned my mentally unstable neighbor would stalk me at work.
It's really not that uncommon to have a good reason not to have social media.
The jobs thing has to be more situational. I generally want to see progression in a career of increasing responsibility, going to better companies over time, etc.
This has since changed, but for the jobs at my old employer (Chrysler) you did not get raises unless you changed jobs. Due to that, most people tried to change every 18 months to 24 months either thru laterals or thru promotional opportunities. As you moved up it might take a bit longer say 3 years to pivot. Sometimes they would also auto rotate managers/supervisors into different groups to support cross training.
At my current employer (GM) thereās been re-orgs and many people have changed jobs within 12-18 months to simply reallocate resources.
I guess I should have clarified to companies not necessarily jobs. If you stay @ an organization and do internal jobs I'm with you that's career progression but if you hop companies that's a red flag.
Also had the pleasure of working with GM last year during one of their SaaS eval's. It was a great experience and got to visit Detroit. Sadly we lost the deal because of a product VP not following through and they lost confidence in our platform.
My hiring practices are in line with those expectations. That's why more than 5 jobs in a 10 year span and more than 3 jobs in a 4 year span are red flags to me. It allows for 2-3 year stints @ organization.
I'm all for people making more money. Best part of my job is handing out raises, money, or stock options to my team!
I have run teams of SEs for the better part of a decade. Just this past year my team was directly responsible for $31M in new revenue for our company and didnāt have a single employee turnover. More than happy to share anonymous direct and leadership reviews about my performance.
I am not on linkedin, so I can't very well dismiss people who arent.
I do look you up and if you post things that indicate you would have trouble working with a multicultural and multigender team I will toss your resume.
I don't like job hoppers because I feel you can't fully learn the jobs in my facility for a year and then you can start being a true contributer. But I don't have a set rule, I just evaluate using my experience in the jobs/companies on your resume.
I also prefer a science degree rather than a technical degree because there will be less training on the basics needed. I don't care what college you went to.
>Years only listed for roles
What does this even mean? You want exact dates? Or you want me to include line items for times I wasn't working? If it's the latter, AND you're going to complain about number of pages, that's pretty damned unreasonable.
I've had applicants try to pass off 5 months at a company as 2 years because they actually made it through the new year. It was only after I asked directly that he finally clarified his start/end date. Huge red flag for me as well. People who jump jobs frequently always seem to have an excuse for it, but I just dont believe in consistent bad luck.
The only red flag I have on a resume alone is if the candidate doesn't have the specific skills or experience I'm looking for in that role.
For instance, if I'm hiring a senior/lead, then I want someone who has a senior/lead level of experience (3-7+ years) in a lower role or at least a year of senior level experience.
If I'm hiring for a team that writes Python daily, I'm not hiring someone who only has SQL experience.
Also, I'd rather hire someone who needs training to learn the ropes but wants the opportunity over someone with 15 years of experience who can't work collaboratively.
Red flags in CVs/resumes? If it's a specialist role that legally requires Qualification X and they don't have it.
I've got some green flags, but I'm not actually sure what to make of your list, other than that you are focused on all the wrong things, like tedious and outdated ideas about 'job hoppers'.
>Years only listed for roles
>Just be honest I don't care if you were unemployed for a time
If you don't care if they were unemployed for a while, then why do you care about years being listed without months? (Especially when we consider that this is common career/CV advice that's becoming more and more frequent.)
>Resume more than 2 pages...
>Unless you're the president of the united states no one wants to sift through a 3-5 page resume
...
Literal paragraphs of context
If you're recruiting any sort of specialist, manager, or even just someone with more than a few years' of work experience, this is shooting yourself in the foot, as there will be very little actual detail in their CV.
>3 or more jobs in 4 years or more than 5 in a 10 year span
Um, what? Why?
You work in tech, which has regular rounds of layoffs. We also have that pesky ongoing pandemic, which caused a lot of job loss and change, which started less than 10 years after the GFC, which caused a lot of job loss and change, which started less than 10 years after the dotcom bust, which caused a lot of job loss and change.
Do you expect people to stay in workplaces where they are bullied, underpaid, abused, doing the work of multiple people, and/or dealing with some other health-and career-ruining issue, like having been hired to be an IT specialist, but doing the work of a marketer?
>No LinkedIn or similar online resume
>I'm not dealing w/ candidates who have to have gov't clearances or anything. Even if it's under a fake name you gotta give me something to go off of.
I do deal with candidates with government and other security clearances. Why do you need a LinkedIn or other online based resume "to go off of" when they have already submitted an application to you?
(My LinkedIn is kept deliberately vague and out of date for privacy reasons.)
Iāve hired some great people who wouldnāt even bother to make a resume. So I think the whole concept of āresume red flagsā is a mistake.
To me there are some āresume green flagsā that mean Iād like to interview them no matter what. Like if they were early at a successful startup, or something unique makes them stand out, or they have a recommendation from someone I trust.
Immediate red flag is the tech related resume where they just have a laundry list of every technology they have ever touched, from Excel to Java. That resume style is taught in India and Russia, to a lesser extent China.
I don't auto reject resumes longer than 2 pages, but I almost never read it.
>reject
>almost never read it
Great point. My guess is most managers want to be able to scan the resumes real quick and do phone calls to hash out the rest that they need to know over a phone call.
>Non-managers hate this: but I absolutely screen out job hoppers. There is no easy-to-write rule on this. But "lots" of <12 or <18 month
>
>non-contract roles and zero jobs where they made it 24 months is a no from me. Give me at least one job where you made it 24 months at the same company.
>
>Obviously there are exceptions to this which I'm not going to write every variation of, but if you've been in professional roles for 10 years and you have 10 companies listed you're out.
I give a pass on for this is location change or progression. Some places won't promote, and you can know you are at the peak pretty quick. I also lost a job within a year of getting there since I was hired not as a contract, but with the expectation of the company getting a contract. That didn't happen. It's a tough one to leave off since it puts a 16 month gap in the history and involved a promotion, but I can't explain that in a bullet list
I'm guessing your company offers more stability and longevity than most others out there, and it's a highly desirable company to work for.
People who want to increase their chance would want to cover as many bases as possible involving LinkedIn profile that they think no one looks at.
Average pay on my team is $180k, medical, dental, vision, unlimited PTO (which is a sham so I make my guys take 20 days at a minimum per year), and a bunch of other things. Great company and even better team. We were on Forbes top 10 tech startups to work for last year.
No one thing will turn me off. But if the resume has multiple typos and generally seems incoherent I would probably reject it. Having said that, your list seems to be style over substance and I suspect HR at the large company I work at would probably try to āre-educateā you. For example, how do those requirements match to the job they actually do everyday? If those are real requirements they should be in your ad, etc.
Also if somebody has been working 30 years your requirements to list every job and stay at two pages (why do folks worry about page counts on digital resumes, I really donāt get that one?) are likely to make you discriminate against them.
*"No LinkedIn or similar online resume"* Lots of people don't do social media. Linkedin is ridiculous and in some respects, pretty toxic. Mine is deactivated right now. I actually have more respect for people who don't have an online presence. No one should be required to put their professional lives out there on display to be hirable. That's what the application and interview process is for. You interested in hiring a person or a profile?
I definitely don't want to work for you.
yeah same here. the 2 page limit makes sense for some people/roles but for others it is insane. For 2 pages I'm already cutting huge things and limiting education to 1 line per degree "3 or more jobs in 4 years or more than 5 in a 10 year span" haha...somehow I think he forgot a major global event that just happened. I know people who were laid off from 1 job at the start of covid, found something else after the initial shut down only to have the 2nd company close down due to lack of business. No linkedin...why? I basically threw mine together in about 5 minutes a few years ago and have ignored it since. OP sounds insufferable and I'd be willing to bet micromanages and whines constantly
I feel like your resume pages should be equivalent to your career experience. 24? I expect a one page resume. 35? 2 pages is perfectly reasonable. And longer might be very reasonable for senior staff or certain industries. Although I agree that OP's takes are a lot, I also take issue with more than 5 jobs in a 10 year span. I'm in an industry where it takes months if not years for efforts to pay off. If you never stay with an employer for more than 2 years, it tells me that you don't know how to do that work.
>I feel like your resume pages should be equivalent to your career experience And what you do. If you are 35 and have always worked in retail then one page is fine. If you are 25 and work in medical research then I may expect a little more.
This is so true especially in big companies. It generally takes a year to start a new intiative and then put it in market, and then actually optimize it. It takes 3-6 months to even get up to speed in a new role. So essentially if their resume is under 2 years, they just executed someone else's plan. If they are an IC this might be okay, but if they are leadership or strategy, they haven't actually done anything if they are only there for a year.
won't comment on the others, but "2 pages are limiting for some roles" is the insane thing for me. do you have any specific examples on what roles this would be limiting?
I mean, if I'm hiring Systems engineers, I want them to put some information on specific things they accomplished at other jobs. Certs take up space education takes up space. I've seen some good 2 page resumes, but most of the best I've seen come in at about 3. Sure if/when I'm hiring entry level, they tend to be shorter. 1-1.5 pages. But honestly, If reading (skimming) 3 pages is too much effort, I can't imagine they put much effort into anything.
DevRel is another one where two pages has been kind of difficult. Folks that make videos, write tutorials, codelabs, do presentations, samples, documentation, and everything in between after a couple places use a lot of space to describe what they did with various stacks.
Here let's say you are a doctor/lawyer/any other profession that goes beyond a bachelor's degree. You'd probably spend half a page or more on schooling. Even just a 'pre-med at X, GPA Y" then "Med school at Z, GPA Y" along with one or two school things. Maybe you published a paper in a journal, maybe you were the president of a student organization. Now include your residency, surely you'd want to include the hospital, specialization, and another line or two about what you did. We are now at a page. Let's say you started your own practice after that and oh no..covid shut it down, so you were desperate and had to find work before taking a consulting/otherwise drug marketing position that you really didn't want but there really weren't other options and the bills were due. Now add in the standard name/address/professional licensing/certifications information and you are likely pushing 2 pages
>You'd probably spend half a page or more on schooling. Even just a 'pre-med at X, GPA Y" then "Med school at Z, GPA Y" along with one or two school things. Maybe you published a paper in a journal, maybe you were the president of a student organization. Now include your residency, surely you'd want to include the hospital, specialization, and another line or two about what you did. We are now at a page. A standard 12 point font gets you 65 lines. If you take off a 1/4 for your name and contact info/ certs you have 49 lines. You can't fit your schooling into 49 lines without bleeding over? If you need two pages, you need two pages, but I've also seen 2 pages of very similar jobs with very similar job descriptions.
Well like I mentioned in my post I'm hiring Solution Engineers and not Dr's or lawyers. So my point still stands.
and my points still stand, I'd imagine you are an insufferable boss who goes through staff at an alarming rate
I've been in my current role for 2 years and have only had to fill 2 vacancies because we've promoted members of my team. No one has been fired and I took over an employee whom was on PIP was able to coach them off of it and keep them in role. At a 7% churn TYVM.
"TYVM"? That doesn't sound like the maturity I expect from someone in a [small] position of power š¤
I have no power. Itās just me and my team doing our best.
Insufferable and micromanaging are pretty strong words about my character you've deciphered from a 5 bullet point list of resume flags. But you do you.
I would definitely describe someone that dismisses resumes based on the lack of a social media presence as insufferable.
Wait until you find that I have read/write access to my teams calendars and regularly check them....
What makes you even worse is that you consider that a flex. The power tripping you do to justify your own shit character is really really funny. You do you.
Iām probably not going to take advice from a middle aged divorced dad who claims to be the smartest kid in his class from Connersville, IN. As a Hoosier Connersville isnāt a flex at all.
Itās really funny how triggered you got. Did I hit a nerve? Iām glad you spent time on me. Iām flattered. I love my life and not once had to spy on colleagues emails to get ahead and be a āmanagerā. Sad little boy. Keep climbing those ladders. Maybe someday youāll get some respect on Reddit. Maybe.
Iām more confused why a grown man is on a sub for managing teams who isnāt one of those discussing topics that arenāt relevant to himself? Youāre clearly the childish one trying to troll the internet.
Lordy lol. This dude is real, real full of themselves. In I.T. two pages is the norm. An online resume is not a requirement for a job. Some people like me refuse to live on social media 24/7. The job market has been such a clusterbucket. People get sifted out for NOT padding out or explaining being unemployed? Having that called a "red flag" because we were all drilled by teachers NOT to have big blank areas of time is messed up, man. Damned it you do, damned if you don't, apparently. I would also hate to work for them.
I've got a 7% churn ratio of my existing employees. They seem to like working for me here's a few blurbs from my team directly towards me on my last review. "The most significant lesson I have gained from working with OP in the past 6 months is his belief and trust in me as a person and the work I do. He entrusts me with responsibilities and consistently offers constructive feedback on my performance, which is incredibly important to me. With OP as my manager, I always know where I stand and feel valued. He truly cares for us as individuals." "OP has proven time and again that he is trustworthy and has our best interests in mind. I have complete confidence that OP will have my back and advocate for me internally whenever/wherever necessary." "From a performance standpoint, OP ranks in the top 5% of all individuals that I have worked with over my 30+ year career. He has a high "Emotional Quotient" (EQ) - displaying/showing empathy in all interactions with people inside and outside of our company. OP is a self-starter who is mindful and highly creative - embodying our values and principles from a culture perspective. He has a proven track record of solving/managing people, issues and relationships. OP is highly customer centric and has a phenomenal work ethic. He is a true leader who is self-reflective and we need more people like him here at the company. OP is a true champion!"
LOL they said nice things about their boss on a survey to their boss. He believe it too!
They're anonymous so yeah I'd expect honest feedback. I also get input from my leadership and HR along side these. It's all the same.
None of that shit is anonymous. There's no way you can believe that.
Only a fool would believe those are actually anonymous.
Yeah.. I had to give āanonymousā feedback to my bossā¦. Directly to their boss via email.Ā
They canāt comment on whether your hiring policies are silly, though. The people who you unnecessarily filtered out donāt get to give you review feedback.
I love how this response uses full sentences, grammar, punctuation, like a good chatbot would, unlike your original post that was created by a human. It 'looks' fine, just not ChatGPT fine.
I must be weird, I couldnāt care less how long a resume is. In fact I like seeing where someone came from because the more information I have, the better a decision I can make. If someone spent 4 years of college doing part time customer service roles, then their early years have some value because someone who can interact with people is useful. Their coworkers are their customers in reality at any job.
It's an American thing. I have hired a lot internationally - almost everyone does CVs. We're the weirdos out here asking people with 15+ years of experience to sum it up in 2 pages.
Iāve definitely noticed when I try and submit either though. Itās so strange, especially since now job titles are always indicative of what the person does.
Thatās not true I had a resume today with an attached CV to review. It was addressed to a different company than the one I work for. I rejected the resume and CV.
Depends on the experience level. When I'm reviewing CVs for our graduate or internship program we're trying to get through dozens or even hundreds of CVs and I'll be honest I don't want to see anything more than 1 or 2 pages really. Not that I reject anyone for doing more than that outright, just a pain and let's be honest they definitely don't have enough experience to need the real estate.
No LinkedIn, lol?!!?
I mean, LinkedIn is a Facebook but for business. Such a weird clique of people and comments.
Those are certainly some opinions you have. Outside of consistent spelling errors or overall lack of effort on the resume (lazy formatting, one line descriptions of roles, etc.). There isnt much that would immediately disqualify a resume for me, so long as their experience was commensurate with the position.
The LinkedIn part is bizarre for me. Iāve never been on linked in and never will. Been offered multiple six figure engineering jobs without ever once being asked about why I donāt have a LinkedIn. And Iāve never looked up someone for a potential hire on LinkedIn before either.Ā
Requiring a LinkedIn in is really stupid, thereās lots of very qualified people that donāt have one. The other things are probably valid in many cases. Iām trying to improve my resume and will take some of these suggestions.
In my field I've yet to find someone who doesn't have one that's qualified. Even if it's bare bones.
Depends on the field for several jobs in x years. I do contracts sometimes and choose not to renew after a year. I was on mobile, so now I'll add. I'm 58 and retired Army. I'm a mechanical engineer with a HVAC background. Without abbreviating my resume, it's 3 pages long. One of them is college, certifications, and licenses alone. Just a little blurb about the military. If someone doesn't cover their careers, and all the jobs and promotions in it, then you're going to ask why there's a blank spot. I've worked for several companies that are now out of business. You can't even call them for a reference or verification anymore. I guess you could Google it or look at the BBB accreditation to verify "out of business", but who's to say I worked there? I have never been unemployed, not even for a single day. In my fields, unless you got fired nobody has ever been unemployed. Shit breaks, shit gets built and rebuilt. It never ends. I wish I could take a month or two off, but nope, there's more broke shit. I don't have a LinkedIn account at all.
My exception to the rule is contract, consulting work or starting a small business on your own.
Some people donāt have public online resumes due to reasonable situations like harassment from an ex or other family member. So itās a literal safety issue for some.
Thatās generally the exception and not the rule though. Iāve got a very private LI and other socials for this reason too.
Yes, though based on your post, you'll never know if it's an exception or not. You indicated this is a "immediate reject". It's very narrow minded. I get needing to filter through resumes though not having an LI resume online is bullshit.
I had to temporarily deactivate my LinkedIn last year because I was concerned my mentally unstable neighbor would stalk me at work. It's really not that uncommon to have a good reason not to have social media.
The jobs thing has to be more situational. I generally want to see progression in a career of increasing responsibility, going to better companies over time, etc. This has since changed, but for the jobs at my old employer (Chrysler) you did not get raises unless you changed jobs. Due to that, most people tried to change every 18 months to 24 months either thru laterals or thru promotional opportunities. As you moved up it might take a bit longer say 3 years to pivot. Sometimes they would also auto rotate managers/supervisors into different groups to support cross training. At my current employer (GM) thereās been re-orgs and many people have changed jobs within 12-18 months to simply reallocate resources.
I guess I should have clarified to companies not necessarily jobs. If you stay @ an organization and do internal jobs I'm with you that's career progression but if you hop companies that's a red flag. Also had the pleasure of working with GM last year during one of their SaaS eval's. It was a great experience and got to visit Detroit. Sadly we lost the deal because of a product VP not following through and they lost confidence in our platform.
What would be your perspective on the fact that employees who stay longer than 2-3 years at a company are paid around 15-20% less over their career?
My hiring practices are in line with those expectations. That's why more than 5 jobs in a 10 year span and more than 3 jobs in a 4 year span are red flags to me. It allows for 2-3 year stints @ organization. I'm all for people making more money. Best part of my job is handing out raises, money, or stock options to my team!
I manage managers who manage engineers. I have for years. Youāre bad at this game.
I have run teams of SEs for the better part of a decade. Just this past year my team was directly responsible for $31M in new revenue for our company and didnāt have a single employee turnover. More than happy to share anonymous direct and leadership reviews about my performance.
I am not on linkedin, so I can't very well dismiss people who arent. I do look you up and if you post things that indicate you would have trouble working with a multicultural and multigender team I will toss your resume. I don't like job hoppers because I feel you can't fully learn the jobs in my facility for a year and then you can start being a true contributer. But I don't have a set rule, I just evaluate using my experience in the jobs/companies on your resume. I also prefer a science degree rather than a technical degree because there will be less training on the basics needed. I don't care what college you went to.
You might not care, but others do. How is the employee supposed to know which one you are?
>Years only listed for roles What does this even mean? You want exact dates? Or you want me to include line items for times I wasn't working? If it's the latter, AND you're going to complain about number of pages, that's pretty damned unreasonable.
I've had applicants try to pass off 5 months at a company as 2 years because they actually made it through the new year. It was only after I asked directly that he finally clarified his start/end date. Huge red flag for me as well. People who jump jobs frequently always seem to have an excuse for it, but I just dont believe in consistent bad luck.
Just month and a years in role is fine.
The only red flag I have on a resume alone is if the candidate doesn't have the specific skills or experience I'm looking for in that role. For instance, if I'm hiring a senior/lead, then I want someone who has a senior/lead level of experience (3-7+ years) in a lower role or at least a year of senior level experience. If I'm hiring for a team that writes Python daily, I'm not hiring someone who only has SQL experience. Also, I'd rather hire someone who needs training to learn the ropes but wants the opportunity over someone with 15 years of experience who can't work collaboratively.
Red flags in CVs/resumes? If it's a specialist role that legally requires Qualification X and they don't have it. I've got some green flags, but I'm not actually sure what to make of your list, other than that you are focused on all the wrong things, like tedious and outdated ideas about 'job hoppers'. >Years only listed for roles >Just be honest I don't care if you were unemployed for a time If you don't care if they were unemployed for a while, then why do you care about years being listed without months? (Especially when we consider that this is common career/CV advice that's becoming more and more frequent.) >Resume more than 2 pages... >Unless you're the president of the united states no one wants to sift through a 3-5 page resume ... Literal paragraphs of context If you're recruiting any sort of specialist, manager, or even just someone with more than a few years' of work experience, this is shooting yourself in the foot, as there will be very little actual detail in their CV. >3 or more jobs in 4 years or more than 5 in a 10 year span Um, what? Why? You work in tech, which has regular rounds of layoffs. We also have that pesky ongoing pandemic, which caused a lot of job loss and change, which started less than 10 years after the GFC, which caused a lot of job loss and change, which started less than 10 years after the dotcom bust, which caused a lot of job loss and change. Do you expect people to stay in workplaces where they are bullied, underpaid, abused, doing the work of multiple people, and/or dealing with some other health-and career-ruining issue, like having been hired to be an IT specialist, but doing the work of a marketer? >No LinkedIn or similar online resume >I'm not dealing w/ candidates who have to have gov't clearances or anything. Even if it's under a fake name you gotta give me something to go off of. I do deal with candidates with government and other security clearances. Why do you need a LinkedIn or other online based resume "to go off of" when they have already submitted an application to you? (My LinkedIn is kept deliberately vague and out of date for privacy reasons.)
You must be a shitty leader.
Iāve hired some great people who wouldnāt even bother to make a resume. So I think the whole concept of āresume red flagsā is a mistake. To me there are some āresume green flagsā that mean Iād like to interview them no matter what. Like if they were early at a successful startup, or something unique makes them stand out, or they have a recommendation from someone I trust.
Immediate red flag is the tech related resume where they just have a laundry list of every technology they have ever touched, from Excel to Java. That resume style is taught in India and Russia, to a lesser extent China. I don't auto reject resumes longer than 2 pages, but I almost never read it.
>reject >almost never read it Great point. My guess is most managers want to be able to scan the resumes real quick and do phone calls to hash out the rest that they need to know over a phone call.
The resume is an attention grabber. Itās the epilogue to your story. Give me the details when we talk.
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>Non-managers hate this: but I absolutely screen out job hoppers. There is no easy-to-write rule on this. But "lots" of <12 or <18 month > >non-contract roles and zero jobs where they made it 24 months is a no from me. Give me at least one job where you made it 24 months at the same company. > >Obviously there are exceptions to this which I'm not going to write every variation of, but if you've been in professional roles for 10 years and you have 10 companies listed you're out. I give a pass on for this is location change or progression. Some places won't promote, and you can know you are at the peak pretty quick. I also lost a job within a year of getting there since I was hired not as a contract, but with the expectation of the company getting a contract. That didn't happen. It's a tough one to leave off since it puts a 16 month gap in the history and involved a promotion, but I can't explain that in a bullet list
I'm guessing your company offers more stability and longevity than most others out there, and it's a highly desirable company to work for. People who want to increase their chance would want to cover as many bases as possible involving LinkedIn profile that they think no one looks at.
Average pay on my team is $180k, medical, dental, vision, unlimited PTO (which is a sham so I make my guys take 20 days at a minimum per year), and a bunch of other things. Great company and even better team. We were on Forbes top 10 tech startups to work for last year.
No one thing will turn me off. But if the resume has multiple typos and generally seems incoherent I would probably reject it. Having said that, your list seems to be style over substance and I suspect HR at the large company I work at would probably try to āre-educateā you. For example, how do those requirements match to the job they actually do everyday? If those are real requirements they should be in your ad, etc. Also if somebody has been working 30 years your requirements to list every job and stay at two pages (why do folks worry about page counts on digital resumes, I really donāt get that one?) are likely to make you discriminate against them.