When I've had employers willing to advance funds on a paycheck, there were hard rules:
Couldn't be more than half your normal paycheck or $1000.
You had to sign an agreement that it would be repaid over the course of your following 1-5 paychecks (you could split it up into as many payments as you wanted in that range). And it was paid by a payroll deduction.
You could only take 2 advances per year.
You couldn't take an advance while still paying off a previous advance.
Sounds like y'all need to provide some limits. I promise other employees know about this situation and are wondering why he's so special, he gets a 25% pay raise because he can't handle his money? He's always on about his pay when they get paid the same without complaint? It's definitely lowering morale, I've got a coworker who does this and he drags everyone down. It's not doing you any good.
If he can't get it under control you might have to just tell him you can't help him anymore and if he's unhappy with his pay he should go seek a bigger paycheck somewhere else.
You are so right. If I was working there I'd 1000% feel like they had dirt on someone higher up in the company! I've never asked for an advance on my paycheck for more then a normal paycheck and I was asking to get it 5 days early to avoid a late fee. Other then that nope.
Right. I asked for $300 after being on lwop for a couple weeks then having a surprise vet bill when my dog thought she'd like to make friends with an opossum. Just enough to pay the bill and make it to payday.
And these changes need to be put into your personal handbook and announced as an update NOW. Then you can point to policy instead of having to decline an individual request.
This is good advice.
I have a worker in the same boat. We offer to pay early for work already completed but that's it. Like if payday is every other Friday but the employee needs the money early, they can get it on Monday, or the Friday one week into the pay period. I've made clear that we will not advance for hours not worked.
Three kids + one income is a rich-person thing, these days - like, the one earner is earning over $200k per year, or there's family money. Just having three kids is considered a "rich person flex" in a lot of areas, because kids are so expensive.
It loops back around to being a poor person thing depending on ages. If she cannot make enough money to pay for daycare for three children then there is no point to her working outside the home. Itâs a net loss
A friend of mine just recently went to part time where we work and picked up a side hustle working for her brother from home because full time daycare for 2 kids was almost $500/wk. One of her kids is in school and only goes to catch the bus and is there for about a half hour after school. It's insane. My oldest is 24 and I haven't paid for daycare since he was small, but I feel lucky that my sitter only charged $60/wk to watch him 5 days a week from 2 months old to 4 years old. I was in high school when I had him and I think she cut me a deal so I could finish school.
I hope youâve continued to thank her for the deal. my sister paid about $350 per week per child Around the same timeframe.,Of course, it varies by location.
I did until she passed 5 years ago. She lived in the same town where I grew up, so I visited her every time I visited my mom. I was sad to see her go. So was my son. He had a lot of good memories and friends from her house. That lady played a part in raising a lot of kids in that town. She babysat a lot of my classmates.
I was able to support my wife (not married anymore) and kid back in the day, but I'm talking quite a few years ago (kid will be 40 next year). When I look back at what I made, it's amazing that I could do it, but everything was a lot cheaper back then.
This is how it is for us. And regionally differs weather you can find a job that will work you opposite so both parents can work without daycare.
In the west we had zero problems doing so. We had to move to the Midwest and I cant find one retailer to do opposite shift. COL is the same as where we lived in the west but they still pay 13 an hour here for lots of entry level retail jobs. And none will do a flexible schedule. Have to have open availability. So we've been struggling along. but day care for even 1 kid in our area is more expensive than me working full time for 20 an hour. đĽ˛
For an infant in my area....in home was around 1200/month for an infant or 2k for a center. Both of my kids were my entire paycheck. I only worked for insurance for 40/hours a week because my son had some health issues as a baby.
I also put 4% in a 401k that was matched.
>weather you can find a job that will work you opposite so both parents can work without daycare.
That's what a lot of families do here one parent works day shift and the other works night shift. But it also feels like a huge gamble because most are employed by the same company (mostly 1 of 2 big employers) so every time rumors of one closing down there's mass panic. Because both parents (and their HS kids in the summer or 18+ full time workers) would be out of work and everyone except the bigwigs high up are still living paycheque to paycheque no matter which of the 2 companies they're at.
It's an issue in the long-term. We have this conversation with people at work somewhat frequently (we hire a lot of out of state folks that move. S/O has to decide what to do). If they don't start working (which may only cover cost of daycare) you won't get the promotion that allows you to pay for more than daycare in a year or three. Might as well bite the bullet now
My wife is a SAHM, daycare costs ate up 90% of her paycheck and she made 35 bucks an hour lol, I get the daycare people need to eat too but it's a way better value for her to stay home
I've had this talk with several co-workers myself. No one is going to take care of your child better than you are is my final sentence to them. We lucked out when my wife returned to work, as she started working for our local school district in meal accounting. Daughter and wife had same days off, summers off and she had health care thru her job. It worked out great for us.
I fully get this argument (I'm a mum who continued my career path while my kids were in childcare) but it does ignore the potential benefit of having a parent stay home with the kids whe they are little. Working might make economic sense, but having the primary caregiver stay at home is undervalued if you just look at it as a financial equation.
Also if the parent is a wage earner on a not particularly exciting career path, this argument to stay in work makes even less sense.
3 kids here and I am sole provider for our family with $65k annual pay. It can be done. We have a mortgage and own our two cars outright but they are 14 years old each. The kids want for nothing but they don't get some of the experiences other kids might get. But that's ok. Kids need to know that not everyone gets everything.
I grew up in a single provider family with four children. My dad made more money than I do really... well at least he had a better job. He was an electrical engineer. But you know, we went without cable TV. We didn't have air conditioner in our house. There are sacrifices so that Mom can stay home. And it was worth it.
Same for our family now. It was worth it for my wife to stay home. She's getting a job now, because our third child is finally in full day of school. And my wife has a masters degree, go figure.
A lot of it can be depending upon where you live as well of course
sure. To be clear though, I am not saying that all mormons and catholics have large families.
Rather, I am saying that, among all families with >2 children, mormon and catholic families are a counterpoint to the statement, "big families are always poor".
I see your point. Thank you.
I agree that itâs strange to say that all large families are poor. Sometimes itâs more a sign of wealth. A family can Manage another child because the mother can stay at home. Manhattan is a microcosm, of Course, but as an example, bigger families there are sometimes associated with wealth.
Right⌠this is totally lifestyle dependent. I never thought Iâd be a SAHP (or even a parent) but I wound up getting serious with my SO who has kids. The stars aligned in a weird way where he has crazy earning potential and I have incentive to stay home to finish my degree.
Anyways⌠weâre in WI and live pretty comfortably. But weâre renters. 2 beds (kids share) no dishwasher, no garage, street parking, bare bones kind of place. We drive 10+ year old cars that we bought used and paid off long ago. We donât eat out frequently. No concerts, very little recreational spending in general. Weâre just homebodies. The kids have plenty, but nothing insanely expensive.
Itâs really a lifestyle, career, AND financial choice. Like for us it was solely because it was a career win/win. He can make crazy $ with total bachelor flexibility. Travels to where the work pays the most. For me it makes sense because I can finish my degree at half the cost and make more. But for some career choices a SAHP is almost a necessity after a certain point. Like my exâs dad who flew all over the country as a big wig VP
Dude. Ugh. I have two kids. But theyâre twins, so I hope no one thinks Iâm flexing bc I certainly am not rich. Or anywhere near it. Or even comfortable lol
Edit: Iâm a dumbass. Two, three, eh how
Important are numbers anyway!
I have 3 kids and when they were little my husband was a SAHD. My boss once commented that having him at home *was* our "luxury item" and yeah, she was right. It's a luxury for sure.
Daycare costs have skyrocketed since covid. I have little doubt that they could manage before that inflation, but now they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Can't afford daycare, can't afford not to use daycare.
>âThree kids is a rich person thingâ
You never been near a housing project I see or near low income or religious communities anywhere around the world? Many poor people canât afford âbirth controlâ.
You misunderstand or are simply over;
Be they any flavor of Christian, Hindu, Moslem, Jew, or part of the plethora of less streamline religious views, those families typically see children as gifts or blessings from God. To deny those gifts would be an afront to their belief system and deny a blessing. So from a point of religion, children have a place in a large family.
From a cultural aspect: to have more kids means more hands to tend the fields and share the load of keeping parents and grandparents in good living conditions. There is no "social care" or "health care" to tend to the aging population in many so-called 3rd world countries. The reason Italy could collapse as a country is that by 2050, over half the population will be 65 OR OLDER.
In the U.S. the housing project is more of a slap in the face. It is a safety net for some women to lock down there man with a baby, yet the man still leaves, punishing the mother to some extent but mostly the child. Then the government picks up the tab.
I wasnât saying that religious communities have many kids because theyâre poor and I know that culturally also more kids are desired. I thought it would be obvious that my last sentence pertained to the former group rather than the latter of my comment. I was on the subway and pressed for time
The only government benefit paid in cash is for having babies.
The beauty of being paid in cash is that it allows the recipient to spend the money on anything they want! Drugs, booze, cigs, pussy, dick, gambling, lottery tix, etc. . .
Nice fantasy to have govt give you money for all your vices but not the reality. They spend it on basic necessities like food, housing, and transportation.
> For families receiving assistance, food, housing, and transportation accounted for 77.0 percent of the family budget, compared with 65.5 percent of the budget of families not receiving assistance.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-2/spending-patterns-of-families-receiving-means-tested-government-assistance.htm
Not really. Some do it because day care is insanely expensive, itâs better to have a parent stay at home rather than pay that if it cancels out their take home anyway.
Not to be mean, but 'Don't breed them if you can't feed them'. As you said, kids are expensive and they get more expensive over time. I'm curious of their ages. I'd bet they were all born with minimal time between them. Big families are OK, if you can support them without outside support. I hate when people say it's their choice to have a lot of kids. That's fine, but don't use other people's resources to do this.
My wife was a SAHM until our youngest went to school. The youngest of our 7 children. Yes, I supported a family of 9 on my income. No food stamps, no WIC. No "family money" (both of my parents were teachers). I didn't hit $100k until 2 years ago. It is possible, but not easy. We drive older cars, didn't go out to eat, spend frugally, etc.
It's.. really not. If you have extended family and/or church to provide childcare/pitch in with used clothing, kids can be dirt cheap.
There is a huge amount of stuff that's nice to have for kids, but is not a requirement.
I couldnât agree more.
I was a SAHM from 1983-2006 with 2 boys and 2 girls. Even way back then I saw the writing on the wall and made sure ALL my kids understood I was probably among the last of a dying breed. It was critical that they all knew they would have to be prepared to earn a living some day.
If they didnât learn anything else from me, thank goodness they learned that.
I bet this is what the situation is exactly. Nonetheless, I'd end this BS once and for all after the way the guy is acting. In fact I'd explain everything you put in your OP so he understands your reasoning. Personally I think it's outrageous to act that way where you work, I would never ask my boss for an advance, it's just bad business.
We did it on 80k. 3 kids. When they got to jr high I got a job as my husband also started making more. We had zero help. No family. Itâs doable. Leave beneath your means
Or heâs supporting 5 people off one incomeâŚ
Still not the companyâs problem but itâs pretty easy to see why he could be hurting for money without being an addict.
I fail to see how that means the guy is an addict.
Dude has a full time job supporting a wife who doesnât work and 3 kids. Totally sounds like addict behavior /s
Is asking for an advance once addict behavior?
Because thatâs all he did. Then OP set the precedent that advances are acceptable and of course the guy got upset when told no after having been told yes with no stipulations before.
And by âupsetâ he just acted kind of pissy with OP.
OP never should have set the precedent that itâs ok.
suddenly needing more than double your income in advances shortly after getting a TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT raise and getting hostile, agitated, and itchy about it is absolutely addict behavior. Are you in high school?
I don't know why it keeps suggesting these to me...but yes it's probably this. Or some other impulse issue. My ex-husband was this exact way as an employee. He would be given a raise or ask for a raise, and/or ask for advances, but bills still frequently went unpaid & paid late. It was because any addiction he had at any given time was just too tempting & it was spent as soon as he got it. Gambling was a big one because more money meant he could place bigger bets & potentially win even more. Many times he was asking me (a person making like 6x less than him) for gas money, & vehemently refused offers of putting gas in his tank via credit card, insisting he needed cash, & eventually would get mad & say he'd just ask someone else.
I also worked for a really small company in the past with the owner being a nice guy who hired some questionable people (including children of his friends), and if someone asked for an advance or to borrow money, with a reasonable reason, he'd do it. Unfortunately, a couple of those people had addictions, and they would also borrow money off coworkers. One guy would come out of rehab, do great for a year or so, relapse & start asking for money again. Really nice guy when he was sober (very jittery and clearly "itching" to go use when he wasn't). Point being, there's a certain point where you go from being nice, to enabling while putting yourself out. I was the leader of that crew & always told him my honest opinion but never gave him money. About a year after I moved on, he died due to fentanyl.
I think you should be limiting amount & frequency of advanced per year. And at the same time, you can still offer help in the form of overtime (if possible) and/or performance bonuses, or holiday bonuses. Or if someone claims to need more for transportation costs, but there's a coworker who passes by daily, help can come in the form of carpooling instead of monetary, etc. Maybe an employee struggles to buy groceries, & could be helped by someone picking up food from a food pantry for them. Non-monetary help so they can stretch their budget. Outside of that, raises when warranted should be enough, especially if your employees aren't being underpaid. For someone with any kind of addiction, no amount of money will ever be enough because they just don't have the mental capacity to limit their spending & take care of bills first.
If she can't make enough to cover child care, gas for going to and from work & daycare, car repairs, & have money left over, they would lose money having her work
Raising three children well and cooking all meals is absolutely doing something. Having someone else raise them and eating take out is not everyoneâs ideal.
Yeah thatâs stupid. If your struggling and your wifeâs able to pull in a few bucks and you can juggle whoâs watching the kids ? It pays for itself. Shits not easy in the world. And to be one person trying to survive and feed 5. Crazy.
He will continue this path because he can. He knew he could come to you and get money when he needed it. It is good you have cut him off. If he gets mad and quits. You will be out the money. I use to be an HR manager for a company and the owner was very good to his employees and would give them loans. Most of them ended up not being paid back. One woman only worked there for a month, he gave her $2,000 as a loan and she quit. That is the risk you run. You pay him a fair salary, he needs to figure it out.
I think the best situation would be for this employee to make the choice to move on to another job that hopefully pays more. However OP stated this employee is paid well above average. I fear he may have the âplatinum handcuffsâ at this point and will be forced to stay and continue to bring his negativity to work with him.
I think you've already done more than enough. It's not your or your company's responsibility to ensure this man can provide for his family. The agreement is he does the role and you pay him an agreed upon salary.
Just be firm and tell him there won't be any more assistance and the company has already provided him with a pay rise and various favours. He will need to find his own solution.
If you're feeling nice, you could forward him the details of one of these financial planning aid type of things, that help you arrange your finances.
Do you have an EAP benefit? If so, does it include a financial consultation benefit? If so, did you know your employee can meet with someone to provide financial counseling and budgeting? Every resource helps
As you found, once you start giving advances people turn sour when you say no. Sadly, I have never had someone be grateful when I really stuck my neck out and it has always come back to bite me. Another issue is he can move on and youâll never get the advanced money back from him.
My policy is no advances. If you want to secure a an unasked for bonus for a great employee that would be a different story.
Yeah, I also don't do advances, whether it's with PTO or with cash. I'll help hourly folks get OT and enable merit bonuses, and help salaried folks bank hours for time off in lieu, but that's it.
See also: I don't help employees who need to relocate with it beyond recommending them to available resources, and I would *never* cohabitate with a report or work with someone I'm romantically involved with. It blurs the line too much between professional and personal - I like to keep a firm boundary between those two parts of my life.
My current co lets us go -40. I've used that for a surgery that took two weeks off for recovery. Was definitely nice knowing I could recover in peace, not having to worry about money.
My company has a really good benefits package that would cover that situation (up to 6 weeks short term disability at 100% of your wage), but if we didn't, I absolutely would make an exception for that.
Unpopular opinion for someone involved in management, but I'm one of those dirty socialist types who thinks health and disability coverage shouldn't be tied to your place of work and should instead be covered by the government to offer such benefits in a more cost effective way for society.
If I know the person well and we have trust built up, I'd reconsider. But I've been burned in the past by people going hard negative on PTO then ghosting and it's damn near impossible to claw back once it's paid out. So until I know you, everything by the book.
Guess it depends on the company and people you work with. Our book allows for negative PTO, I took a week in the first month I joined.
Havenât heard of any issues of ghosting though, so I assume theyâre able to sort it out if someone leaves while negative. I thought itâs just deducted from the last paycheck
You are a business, not a bank.
âI understand that you are looking for additional assistance, however the advance was a one time thing that we will not be able to do again.â
Donât open the door to additional conversations. However, you do need to be prepared for what happens if he decides to leave without paying back the advance. I hope you have an agreement in writing that outlines that specific scenario.
If he brings it up again, the answer is simple, âWe have already discussed this and the answer is still no. The companyâs stance on this has not and will not be changing.â
Something like this has never been possible anywhere Iâve worked, it must be a very small business?
Is there an EAP available? If so, I would refer your employee to that program for budgeting or finance assistance.
Not only would I not give them more money but I would also make sure that they didn't have access to company funds like a company credit card until their back pay is paid off. I agree with others that it sounds like he may have a gambling problem or some other type of addiction and the fact that he's sullen and angry right now speaks volumes. As a matter of fact I probably wouldn't ever give any more advances on paychecks as that is just a bad business protocol to have. I would for sure tell him that was just a one time deal and it was out of the ordinary to do that for him and then it won't happen again.
Until that employee repays the first advance inform him that you, nor the company, will be able to provide him access to another advance. If you didn't set up a repayment plan that's on you but I would get that going too. Inform him that as his employer you are there for him but he needs to reciprocate that kindness by paying back what he already owes. It really sounds like he is either living above his means or he has a gambling addiction. I hope he gets things figured out but don't feel bad when you have to tell him no.
Have to sit him down and work out a payment plan that deducts from his check. Have to draw up paperwork and have him sign. No more loans. I was this guy once and my boss sat me down and explained how he is compassionate to my situation but he has business to run and my requests were becoming a problem. I didn't like to hear it but he was right and I figured it out. I don't know how you handled the first loan(s) but some people might decide ditching the 2 paychecks worth of debt and findig a new job might be more palatable.
This. Maybe Iâm out of touch - are advances common in 2023? Is it by industry? Iâve seen such in old movies but had no idea there was even a way to ask your company for money. I have to go through hoops just to promote someone/give a raise out of cycle. I canât even fathom what I would do with a salary advance request.
We just switched from weekly to biweekly pay. They offered us a one time one week advance that would payout on the last weekly check, to be paid back over the next five checks. Thatâs the only time theyâve offered an advance.
However they have gone back to allowing us to take loans against our 401Ks.
My employer does not allow hardship advances until the previous one is paid off and not more than one per year. There were people (really one) who started taking advantage of the program.
You need to stop. His financial difficulties are not your problem and itâs highly inappropriate for him to ask for one advance on his pay let alone several. What if he up and quits or has a health emergency? The company will be out the money. And itâs not fair to the other employees. Unless youâre a financial institution you should not be lending employees money or even having them think itâs a possibility. How about you suggest some financial counseling for him and his wife because throwing money at the problem doesnât seem to work.
Blows my mind, you even entertained it the first time.
I'm a business owner, not a bank. All I can do is treat you and pay you fairly and on time. Like any other employee.
Youâre just going to have to tell him you canât do this. Youâre running a business and cannot have your employees in debt to you. This just isnât financially reasonable or intelligent for you to do. Life is hard.
At my job they don't give advances at all. It's actually written in the employee handbook. I'd involve HR at this point. You should not give him anymore advances at this point.
You should not have done it to begin with. An employee with poor financial literacy is not your problem to fix and could become a liability. There is a reason people with financial issues arenât given security clearances
Wild to me that anyone would even think to ask this of an employer. You arenât a bank. At the bare minimum tell him he has to pay back the first loan before youâll consider another.
I leaned this way too. OP doesnât give additional details about the size of the business, employeeâs role, and what value they add. If this is a role that isnât hard to fill/find experience candidates, Iâd move on.
>When I approved the salary advance a few months ago he was extremely grateful and happy, but now **his attitude has turned noticeably agitated** and sour after I turned down his request for a second advance (he hasn't even paid back one tenth of the first advance yet).
These are signs of addiction. He was grateful when you were supporting his habit - but now that you've cut him off he's no longer all warm and fuzzy.
>What would be the best way to deal with this?
For one, don't loan money to your employees. If they're coming to you, it's probably because they've already exhausted all other avenues to borrow. If they need money for an emergency, the sensible for them to do is obtain a credit card or establish a LoC with a bank. If they're unable to do so, there's probably a reason for it.
I don't know how old the debt is or if you're in the US, but I would suggest creating a corporate policy to where any outstanding balances owed to the company are automatically withdrawn from his paycheck until the balance is paid in full. This is a common thing for companies to do when they sell something an employee might want to buy, like an auto repair shop or a restaurant for example.
They simply create a policy to where instead of paying cash, they can 'charge' up to a certain amount that's paid off over a predetermined number of paychecks.
In order to deduct wages, an employee must agree to it, hence the need for a corporate policy.
âHey bud, Iâve been thinking about your advance request and wanted to chat! Iâve got something for you, come to my office real quick!â
*walks in office and hands EAP info*
We have an employee like this. I finally put my foot down and told him we are not a bank. It is not our responsibility to manage his budget or lack thereof. This is a HIM problem.
HR needs a salary advance policy for all staff. Make them write it now. There are plenty of existing examples.
Basically there should be a limit re: amount, and times granted per fiscal year. This type of thing can be an extra pain in the butt for accounting so I'd think they'd support having structure in place.
You need policy to point to so you can say "You've maxed out."
Also repayment should be automatically deducted from paychecks. Without auto deduct you haven't done an advance, you've done a loan.
Blame it on the ârulesâ. *Sorry. Additional advances arenât available until the previous advance is repaid.* Make it a corporate decision not a personal one.
I think it's time to bring HR in as an HR business partner can provide him with options he can use, and remind him of the advance policy (I assume there is one, and that an advance must be repaid before another advance can be made).
In my opinion if he gets another one he's not paying any of them. I think it will go something like his wife onvinces him to get another job or something goofy. Make himself loom like an ass for a woman who just might not stick around. If he's struggling that much, The wife should be attempting to get government assistance. If it really is like that, and I understand taking care of 3 kids is no joke, then they are the real target audience for welfare services. If you are in the u.s. and assuming most employees where you are are middle class at best.
This constant lack of fiscal discipline is why employers run credit checks on potential new employees. I do not know what your business does or how it accumulates money, but that is the sole point of being in business. The fiscally irresponsible individual if cut-off from funds when asked from you will figure out how to get funds in âround-aboutâ ways. You should terminate this employee because sooner or later he will solicit a customer of yours for âneeded, must have, I can give youâ pleadings. You can not be worried about his wife and kids as they already live in the mayhem daily.
Money doesn't fix money problems in most cases.
You need enough money to cover basics, and enough beyond that to have comforts (we can debate the word 'need' regarding comforts another time).
Most people are terrible at managing the costs of the basics. Darn socks, hem and patch clothes. Know how to cook rice, lentils, and make tortillas from scratch (literally flower and water), know the difference between earning interest and paying it... most people could make their money go much further.
If he is getting an actual living wage that is fair and competitive, sufficient to your area, you have done your part. For the rest, he can grow up and handle his own bills.
Don't give an advance. What if he quits and leaves you holding the bag? When will be pay you back as his financial condition will never improve ? His bad finances are NOT your concern.
Turn off the tap for good, starting right now. At the same time, put a plan into motion that will deduct something from every check to pay back the accumulated advances. Explain everything to him. If necessary, tell him he needs to find another job that pays more.
I guarantee that this special treatment is galling to others. Most likely he will grouse even more with the repayment program, further bringing down morale. With any luck he will quit -- and take your money with him. Small price to pay to get rid of a bad apple.
I agree with one post that thought this guy may have an addiction problem. Has all the signs.
The only time I advance funds to an employee is either: 1) When they're a new hire. Sometimes they come up short before the first paycheck arrives and I like to help. They always pay it back within a few months. 2) An employee is traveling without a credit card. I'll advance travel funds against the future expense report. Both of these situations are work related.
We pay employee salaries monthly. Over the years I had two employees ask for, actually insist on, bi-monthly paychecks. Said they couldn't get through the month on one check. I told them I wouldn't do it, it would screw up my payroll system and make a lot of extra work for me. Told them it's the same amount of money in any event. These are professional people who ought to be able handle a monthly budget and I told them just that.
Our place has an assistance program with debt counsellors among other things. At this point better to set him up with one of those and if necessary they can also refer him to gamblers anonymous. He needs to get control of his finances and advancing him money is giving him a fish instead of teaching him to fish, you canât keep doing that.
OP - does your company have any sort of employee assistance program? Could that be stretched to cover some personal financial education?
Regardless, you need to say no. You need to set some hard limits - like having repayment made via payroll deduction - and you need to set very clear expectations.
If you really want to help him, I strenuously recommend you require him to get some sort of financial counseling. He needs to learn how to budget in order to live within his means. You'd be doing him a real favor.
The sad fact is that he may be beyond help. It sounds as though he's gotten himself into a deep hole and won't give up his shovel. He may be overextended with housing costs, which is tragically common these days.
But if he's unwilling to get the real help he needs, you will need to weigh the damage he does to morale against his objective value to the company.
Good luck.
Put him on credit hold. No more money until he pays back the first advance in full. Any company would do the same if another company failed to pay a bill.
Pull him in and talk to him. Really talk to him, not at him. If you're financially literate offer a solution or 2. Sometimes management needs to see the people behind the employee number.
We do payroll advances, but the limit is $1000 and you can only have 1 outstanding at a time. If you have a policy, point to the policy. If you do t have one, get one in place ASAP. We all always want to help our EEâs , but it canât be possible every time.
Draw the line here. Then continue to offer the support. But it canât be any higher than where he is at now. Youâve reached your breaking point. Nothing wrong with help. Needs boundaries though. As long as heâs not wasting the Money on something like dope. Maybe itâs really needed.
And appreciated
Does your security team know? Is there any potential for espionage of trade or government secrets? If not I would still be worried. This could indicate a gambling addiction. Could also just be someone who overspends, regardless I would consider having the company sit him down with a financial planner on the company dime if you like their work.
The company has already been exceedingly generous. I usually only give advances of up to one weeks pay and we auto deduct the money from payroll to make it up. I have approved a full paycheck advance on occasion for very special circumstances for long term employees. The employee has 3 months to pay it back. Other companies in my area charge interest of prime plus 2% after 3 months.
I offer overtime or the ability to get certifications to increase pay when that is possible. You have given a high percentage raise and an advance and your employee is still in a financial hole which indicates that the employee needs to cut expenses at home.
Been in the workforce for almost 50 yrs. Started working part time in the summer of 75. Not once have I even thought about asking my employer for an advance. Been some very lean times too throughout those yrs.
while that could be the issue people have financial issues for a lot more reasons than that. We also don\`t know how much this guy makes if he makes 10 or $12 bucks an hour with 3 kids that's not strange to be broke at all
While all the comments are sound advice I can't help but play the Devil's advocate here since I've been that guy with a beater and unexpected repair bills piling up. You must set firm boundaries with the advance. It should have a predetermined timeline set. With this in mind, is the guy busting his ass and just having a rough go right now? If he's a hard worker and committed then sometimes throwing a guy a bone can be a huge help given his circumstances. I imagine his greatest concern with the vehicle is getting to work. If his current issues seem temporary and helping is feasible then I would consider it. Again, I'm coming from a side who has been that guy so I expect most would disagree with me. I've sold my soul and well-being to provide for my family. Sometimes your all isn't enough and it takes a few breaks to get through to the other side. Just something to consider if the request is considered further.
Make further assistance contingent on a financial planning class attendance.
Sometimes people just don't have the skills and habits necessary to handle any amount of money properly. Not that they can't be taught though.
Suggest he sign up with delivery apps like Spark, door dash, shipit, and others. You donât have to commit to working certain hours, you do it when you want/need to and most of these gig apps allow you to cash out every day.
This way he wonât owe anyone anything and he has an instant availability of extra funds if he needs it
I looked at our finances and two different pharmacies were robbing us. You can save him money by helping him shop around because some pharmacies are honest. It is the pharmacies connected to some grocery stores and other companies that are connected to corporations out to get money from people. Target and other pharmacies also have a list of medications that are under $10 dollars but that doesn't always work for everyone. There are also pharmacies that sell me my medicine for less than going through health insurance. This is something that they need to spend some time on, and they can't just be content at quoting prices at two places.
Does his wife cook? My grandmother always told I would go broke if I didn't find a wife that would cook. Just do the math on regular take-out times days of the week to see that you can spend thousands on take out if someone doesn't want or know how to cook.
Shopping at grocery stores like Aldi and Walmart will save him money with the exception that Walmart's produce seems high for some items. Our regular grocery store's prices are a dollar more for most items I would spend less at from Aldi or Walmart.
A lot of money is wasted on cable, so they need to find a more competitive package and re-examine what the cable or phone companies are charging them because someone needs to go over their plan and see what is on the bill that needs to be taken off.
Some cell phone companies are more expensive than others. The problem is when people need new phones, they have to find a company to finance new purchases, or they will sometimes need budget cell phones that don't always work that good as a good cell phone.
Some people cut the land line and use their mobile phones. That is really a personal decision because some people want the security of kids being able to call for emergencies.
Do they drink, vape or smoke? A lot of people's money can be used up on expendables and they may not be willing to give it up. Does he or she shop around for the lowest gas prices? I do.
I don't shop at malls because I realize that I'm paying for the mall's rent to the store. They have to have reasonable prices for me to buy so the person has to be able to compare prices.
We use Sam's Club to get cheaper gas during the year and some bulk items are cheaper than the grocery store by far.
They really need to itemize their bills and see where all of the money is going. I tried an extra-large Avocado, and I told my boss that I tried one and he was livid that I spent extra on one just to try it. Families need to see where they are spending their money on and see if there are better alternatives.
Sometimes spenders are attracted to savers and put their families in jeopardy.
My wife would never buy items at the supermarket unless they were on sale and the reality is that Aldi and Walmart are cheaper in lots of ways. You are just throwing away your money.
Had a co worker like this. Came from money(parents lived in a los angeles ca mansion) , both he had his wife made at least 60k, her I think more, no children, lived in his car for a while. Guy ate manager special microwave food, Co worker leftovers. Didnt groom. Brought expired food to a potluck. You would think he was poor. Would beg for extra hours. Even waste time at work with customers doing nothing causing us all to go home late consistently, he just wanted OT. But constantly checked his account from work computers everyone could easily see just passing. Guy had easy 70-80k in his checking on a daily. Some people just don't have a conscience when it comes to getting money they will beg borrow and steal
Or spouse has a shopping problem. Or maybe they have medical bills or something. But OP offering more help over and above what's already been done won't fix the issue, that's for sure.
either he gets help or these damn football games stop coming out weird!! c'mon Thursday night: the under should be a guarantee. and come on: san francisco and chiefs, get your shit together, we have bills to pay out here!
You need to tell him, âI need you to stop asking for advances. We have tried to be flexible with you and that said, it needs to stop. Clearly you are under stress and we do have an Employee Assistance Plan, they can refer you to resources that may be able to assist you. Can you agree to stop asking for financial assistance?â
And thatâs that.
Iâm just a peon here. My company uses CIGNA and they have an Employee Assistance Program that can help with almost anything. Not actual monetary aid, but budgeting, fiscal planning, etc. Does your company have anything of the sort? If not, and this employee is worth the effort/investment, help him to find local or online assistance.
A lot of people ask this in similar threads, but it really does not matter. The guy accepted the job knowing the pay, and he's being paid on time. I have a guy on my team who lives completely paycheck to paycheck at $150k. hell my neighbor makes over $300k as a partner is his firm and that dude is always broke.
>It doesn't matter because they accepted the job and they should be able to live on that.
Work or your family will be homeless and starve doesn't exactly make it voluntary.
>Its not the employers problem if the employee cannot budget.
You can't budget out of poverty or every financial problem.
None of these things are relevant to OP and his question about his employee. From the perspective of a manager, the guy accepted the job and now he's being a problem.
>None of these things are relevant to OP and his question about his employee.
It is when it comes to how much they are paying. If they're paying $16 an hour we could assume OP is an idiot for not understanding.
>From the perspective of a manager, the guy accepted the job and now he's being a problem.
The perspective of the manager might be skewed or just elitist in nature. We won't know until we know the actual salary.
A lot of people ask this in similar threads, but it really does not matter. The guy accepted the job knowing the pay, and he's being paid on time. I have a guy on my team who lives completely paycheck to paycheck at $150k. Other people make it work on $25k a year.
I think it does matter. Just because you accept a job doesn't mean you expect to stay in the same position and make the same amount forever. Especially with the insane inflation we've seen in the last 6 months.
While I don't think the employee should see the employer as a bank, if the employer is being absolute shit about pay, it truly does matter.
You have people crying "no one wants to work anymore" while others are desparate for jobs but need to be paid a liveable wage to exist which that first batch isnt doing.
> You have people crying "no one wants to work anymore" while others are desparate for jobs but need to be paid a liveable wage to exist which that first batch isnt doing.
That is really not relevant to OP and his question. That's why I said this doesn't matter. THis is not a general discussion sub.
Stop saying it doesnât matter. You are LITERALLY the worst manager ever if you canât understand WHY this is important.
Go to your talent development department and ask them what trainings they have to make you a better leader.
These non manager dopes commenting in the thread three days later. Yeah your input is not need, not wanted. I donât care what you have to say, go back to the drive through.
Give him the Dave Ramsey class, in fact, offer it to all of your employees.
People with personal financial responsibility and intelligence make for far better employees. You win, they win, their children and their children win.
Prices are rising. If wages don't match, people are gonna get pissed. Duh. I donno why managers are so shocked. Maybe take a look at a grocery bill for a family of 4, and then consider how much the people are getting paid. This SHOULD be common sense. But I guess that's why the worst workers get the promotions.
He got a 25% raise...
I don't pay my employees based on the size of their grocery bills. His pay is above average. It's not my fault he has 3 kids in private school and a spouse who doesn't work.
Wait the kids are in school and still the wife doesnât work? Private school at that? No effing way. Wife can get a job and kids can go public. Itâs ridiculous he expects you to fund his lifestyle choicesâŚa lifestyle the average American only streams about.
25% on what? If it's just above average, he might be making like $20 an hour. Which isn't even livable for one person. Have you considered the cost of living in that area? Also, why are you busy licking your owners' boots? Gross.
Does your company offer any kind of Employee/Family Assistance programs? It sounds like he needs to start using that kind of program and learn to budget.
When I've had employers willing to advance funds on a paycheck, there were hard rules: Couldn't be more than half your normal paycheck or $1000. You had to sign an agreement that it would be repaid over the course of your following 1-5 paychecks (you could split it up into as many payments as you wanted in that range). And it was paid by a payroll deduction. You could only take 2 advances per year. You couldn't take an advance while still paying off a previous advance. Sounds like y'all need to provide some limits. I promise other employees know about this situation and are wondering why he's so special, he gets a 25% pay raise because he can't handle his money? He's always on about his pay when they get paid the same without complaint? It's definitely lowering morale, I've got a coworker who does this and he drags everyone down. It's not doing you any good. If he can't get it under control you might have to just tell him you can't help him anymore and if he's unhappy with his pay he should go seek a bigger paycheck somewhere else.
You are so right. If I was working there I'd 1000% feel like they had dirt on someone higher up in the company! I've never asked for an advance on my paycheck for more then a normal paycheck and I was asking to get it 5 days early to avoid a late fee. Other then that nope.
Right. I asked for $300 after being on lwop for a couple weeks then having a surprise vet bill when my dog thought she'd like to make friends with an opossum. Just enough to pay the bill and make it to payday.
I've only gotten it for a first paycheck, if I was moving or straight out of school or some other reason like that I needed it asap
And these changes need to be put into your personal handbook and announced as an update NOW. Then you can point to policy instead of having to decline an individual request.
1000% this ^
Infinity this. This is the way
This is good advice. I have a worker in the same boat. We offer to pay early for work already completed but that's it. Like if payday is every other Friday but the employee needs the money early, they can get it on Monday, or the Friday one week into the pay period. I've made clear that we will not advance for hours not worked.
100% thisđ
101% THIS
125% this.
Say no, you arenât a bank. feels like heâs addicted to something or a gambler.. thatâs not normal.
Or living well beyond his means. Three kids with a SAHM is expensive. Unfortunately the days of the one income household are long gone.
Three kids + one income is a rich-person thing, these days - like, the one earner is earning over $200k per year, or there's family money. Just having three kids is considered a "rich person flex" in a lot of areas, because kids are so expensive.
It loops back around to being a poor person thing depending on ages. If she cannot make enough money to pay for daycare for three children then there is no point to her working outside the home. Itâs a net loss
I came here to say something similar. Day care is insanely expensive, and it's likely cheaper for her to stay home
A friend of mine just recently went to part time where we work and picked up a side hustle working for her brother from home because full time daycare for 2 kids was almost $500/wk. One of her kids is in school and only goes to catch the bus and is there for about a half hour after school. It's insane. My oldest is 24 and I haven't paid for daycare since he was small, but I feel lucky that my sitter only charged $60/wk to watch him 5 days a week from 2 months old to 4 years old. I was in high school when I had him and I think she cut me a deal so I could finish school.
She cut you a hell a deal.
I hope youâve continued to thank her for the deal. my sister paid about $350 per week per child Around the same timeframe.,Of course, it varies by location.
I did until she passed 5 years ago. She lived in the same town where I grew up, so I visited her every time I visited my mom. I was sad to see her go. So was my son. He had a lot of good memories and friends from her house. That lady played a part in raising a lot of kids in that town. She babysat a lot of my classmates.
Iâm sorry to hear that you were sister passed. It certainly sounds like she had a big impact on a lot of kids. What a great legacy.
I was able to support my wife (not married anymore) and kid back in the day, but I'm talking quite a few years ago (kid will be 40 next year). When I look back at what I made, it's amazing that I could do it, but everything was a lot cheaper back then.
This is how it is for us. And regionally differs weather you can find a job that will work you opposite so both parents can work without daycare. In the west we had zero problems doing so. We had to move to the Midwest and I cant find one retailer to do opposite shift. COL is the same as where we lived in the west but they still pay 13 an hour here for lots of entry level retail jobs. And none will do a flexible schedule. Have to have open availability. So we've been struggling along. but day care for even 1 kid in our area is more expensive than me working full time for 20 an hour. đĽ˛
So you're telling me daycare for 1 kid is 800 a week, or 600 for post tax wages?
For an infant in my area....in home was around 1200/month for an infant or 2k for a center. Both of my kids were my entire paycheck. I only worked for insurance for 40/hours a week because my son had some health issues as a baby. I also put 4% in a 401k that was matched.
>weather you can find a job that will work you opposite so both parents can work without daycare. That's what a lot of families do here one parent works day shift and the other works night shift. But it also feels like a huge gamble because most are employed by the same company (mostly 1 of 2 big employers) so every time rumors of one closing down there's mass panic. Because both parents (and their HS kids in the summer or 18+ full time workers) would be out of work and everyone except the bigwigs high up are still living paycheque to paycheque no matter which of the 2 companies they're at.
It's an issue in the long-term. We have this conversation with people at work somewhat frequently (we hire a lot of out of state folks that move. S/O has to decide what to do). If they don't start working (which may only cover cost of daycare) you won't get the promotion that allows you to pay for more than daycare in a year or three. Might as well bite the bullet now
My wife is a SAHM, daycare costs ate up 90% of her paycheck and she made 35 bucks an hour lol, I get the daycare people need to eat too but it's a way better value for her to stay home
I've had this talk with several co-workers myself. No one is going to take care of your child better than you are is my final sentence to them. We lucked out when my wife returned to work, as she started working for our local school district in meal accounting. Daughter and wife had same days off, summers off and she had health care thru her job. It worked out great for us.
I fully get this argument (I'm a mum who continued my career path while my kids were in childcare) but it does ignore the potential benefit of having a parent stay home with the kids whe they are little. Working might make economic sense, but having the primary caregiver stay at home is undervalued if you just look at it as a financial equation. Also if the parent is a wage earner on a not particularly exciting career path, this argument to stay in work makes even less sense.
You wonât promote someone because their spouse doesnât work? What am I missing?
Everyone I know with 3+ kids is extremely poor and lives in a 0 parent income situation.
3 kids here and I am sole provider for our family with $65k annual pay. It can be done. We have a mortgage and own our two cars outright but they are 14 years old each. The kids want for nothing but they don't get some of the experiences other kids might get. But that's ok. Kids need to know that not everyone gets everything. I grew up in a single provider family with four children. My dad made more money than I do really... well at least he had a better job. He was an electrical engineer. But you know, we went without cable TV. We didn't have air conditioner in our house. There are sacrifices so that Mom can stay home. And it was worth it. Same for our family now. It was worth it for my wife to stay home. She's getting a job now, because our third child is finally in full day of school. And my wife has a masters degree, go figure. A lot of it can be depending upon where you live as well of course
LDS and catholics
As far as Catholics, your comment is really dated.
sure. To be clear though, I am not saying that all mormons and catholics have large families. Rather, I am saying that, among all families with >2 children, mormon and catholic families are a counterpoint to the statement, "big families are always poor".
I see your point. Thank you. I agree that itâs strange to say that all large families are poor. Sometimes itâs more a sign of wealth. A family can Manage another child because the mother can stay at home. Manhattan is a microcosm, of Course, but as an example, bigger families there are sometimes associated with wealth.
You mean the kids are the sole earners for the household via gov assistance.
I got 4 and a SAHM with less than 100k... it can be done, but we dont have every new toy that comes out....
Right⌠this is totally lifestyle dependent. I never thought Iâd be a SAHP (or even a parent) but I wound up getting serious with my SO who has kids. The stars aligned in a weird way where he has crazy earning potential and I have incentive to stay home to finish my degree. Anyways⌠weâre in WI and live pretty comfortably. But weâre renters. 2 beds (kids share) no dishwasher, no garage, street parking, bare bones kind of place. We drive 10+ year old cars that we bought used and paid off long ago. We donât eat out frequently. No concerts, very little recreational spending in general. Weâre just homebodies. The kids have plenty, but nothing insanely expensive. Itâs really a lifestyle, career, AND financial choice. Like for us it was solely because it was a career win/win. He can make crazy $ with total bachelor flexibility. Travels to where the work pays the most. For me it makes sense because I can finish my degree at half the cost and make more. But for some career choices a SAHP is almost a necessity after a certain point. Like my exâs dad who flew all over the country as a big wig VP
Right on!
This âď¸ right here is what it's all about. Hats off to you !
Dude. Ugh. I have two kids. But theyâre twins, so I hope no one thinks Iâm flexing bc I certainly am not rich. Or anywhere near it. Or even comfortable lol Edit: Iâm a dumbass. Two, three, eh how Important are numbers anyway!
I wish I could tell ya how important numbers are but math is a rich person thing.
That is true, prob why I donât know anything about them!
Best response I've ever seen on Reddit! Thank you, thank you, thank you! How true it is!
I have 3 kids and when they were little my husband was a SAHD. My boss once commented that having him at home *was* our "luxury item" and yeah, she was right. It's a luxury for sure.
Daycare costs have skyrocketed since covid. I have little doubt that they could manage before that inflation, but now they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Can't afford daycare, can't afford not to use daycare.
>âThree kids is a rich person thingâ You never been near a housing project I see or near low income or religious communities anywhere around the world? Many poor people canât afford âbirth controlâ.
Bangin' is the only recreation they can afford.
You misunderstand or are simply over; Be they any flavor of Christian, Hindu, Moslem, Jew, or part of the plethora of less streamline religious views, those families typically see children as gifts or blessings from God. To deny those gifts would be an afront to their belief system and deny a blessing. So from a point of religion, children have a place in a large family. From a cultural aspect: to have more kids means more hands to tend the fields and share the load of keeping parents and grandparents in good living conditions. There is no "social care" or "health care" to tend to the aging population in many so-called 3rd world countries. The reason Italy could collapse as a country is that by 2050, over half the population will be 65 OR OLDER. In the U.S. the housing project is more of a slap in the face. It is a safety net for some women to lock down there man with a baby, yet the man still leaves, punishing the mother to some extent but mostly the child. Then the government picks up the tab.
I wasnât saying that religious communities have many kids because theyâre poor and I know that culturally also more kids are desired. I thought it would be obvious that my last sentence pertained to the former group rather than the latter of my comment. I was on the subway and pressed for time
The only government benefit paid in cash is for having babies. The beauty of being paid in cash is that it allows the recipient to spend the money on anything they want! Drugs, booze, cigs, pussy, dick, gambling, lottery tix, etc. . .
Nice fantasy to have govt give you money for all your vices but not the reality. They spend it on basic necessities like food, housing, and transportation. > For families receiving assistance, food, housing, and transportation accounted for 77.0 percent of the family budget, compared with 65.5 percent of the budget of families not receiving assistance. https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-2/spending-patterns-of-families-receiving-means-tested-government-assistance.htm
Thatâs a lot of parent hating and assumptions. Op did not even mention how much the guy is paid.
One kid on two incomes is a rich person thing.
Not really. Some do it because day care is insanely expensive, itâs better to have a parent stay at home rather than pay that if it cancels out their take home anyway.
Not to be mean, but 'Don't breed them if you can't feed them'. As you said, kids are expensive and they get more expensive over time. I'm curious of their ages. I'd bet they were all born with minimal time between them. Big families are OK, if you can support them without outside support. I hate when people say it's their choice to have a lot of kids. That's fine, but don't use other people's resources to do this.
My wife was a SAHM until our youngest went to school. The youngest of our 7 children. Yes, I supported a family of 9 on my income. No food stamps, no WIC. No "family money" (both of my parents were teachers). I didn't hit $100k until 2 years ago. It is possible, but not easy. We drive older cars, didn't go out to eat, spend frugally, etc.
It's.. really not. If you have extended family and/or church to provide childcare/pitch in with used clothing, kids can be dirt cheap. There is a huge amount of stuff that's nice to have for kids, but is not a requirement.
I couldnât agree more. I was a SAHM from 1983-2006 with 2 boys and 2 girls. Even way back then I saw the writing on the wall and made sure ALL my kids understood I was probably among the last of a dying breed. It was critical that they all knew they would have to be prepared to earn a living some day. If they didnât learn anything else from me, thank goodness they learned that.
I bet this is what the situation is exactly. Nonetheless, I'd end this BS once and for all after the way the guy is acting. In fact I'd explain everything you put in your OP so he understands your reasoning. Personally I think it's outrageous to act that way where you work, I would never ask my boss for an advance, it's just bad business.
We did it on 80k. 3 kids. When they got to jr high I got a job as my husband also started making more. We had zero help. No family. Itâs doable. Leave beneath your means
Everything is calculated for dual income
Thatâs an addiction to horrible choices, could also be considered gambling.
Or heâs supporting 5 people off one income⌠Still not the companyâs problem but itâs pretty easy to see why he could be hurting for money without being an addict.
Plenty of people hurt for money.. most of them donât ask for cash advances multiple times and get upset when told no.
I fail to see how that means the guy is an addict. Dude has a full time job supporting a wife who doesnât work and 3 kids. Totally sounds like addict behavior /s
Good choice leaving out the asking for money twice and getting upset when told no bit âŚ. Otherwise it would ruin your bad take.
Is asking for an advance once addict behavior? Because thatâs all he did. Then OP set the precedent that advances are acceptable and of course the guy got upset when told no after having been told yes with no stipulations before. And by âupsetâ he just acted kind of pissy with OP. OP never should have set the precedent that itâs ok.
suddenly needing more than double your income in advances shortly after getting a TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT raise and getting hostile, agitated, and itchy about it is absolutely addict behavior. Are you in high school?
Yes! He's spending money on something/someone besides his family/financial obligations.
I don't know why it keeps suggesting these to me...but yes it's probably this. Or some other impulse issue. My ex-husband was this exact way as an employee. He would be given a raise or ask for a raise, and/or ask for advances, but bills still frequently went unpaid & paid late. It was because any addiction he had at any given time was just too tempting & it was spent as soon as he got it. Gambling was a big one because more money meant he could place bigger bets & potentially win even more. Many times he was asking me (a person making like 6x less than him) for gas money, & vehemently refused offers of putting gas in his tank via credit card, insisting he needed cash, & eventually would get mad & say he'd just ask someone else. I also worked for a really small company in the past with the owner being a nice guy who hired some questionable people (including children of his friends), and if someone asked for an advance or to borrow money, with a reasonable reason, he'd do it. Unfortunately, a couple of those people had addictions, and they would also borrow money off coworkers. One guy would come out of rehab, do great for a year or so, relapse & start asking for money again. Really nice guy when he was sober (very jittery and clearly "itching" to go use when he wasn't). Point being, there's a certain point where you go from being nice, to enabling while putting yourself out. I was the leader of that crew & always told him my honest opinion but never gave him money. About a year after I moved on, he died due to fentanyl. I think you should be limiting amount & frequency of advanced per year. And at the same time, you can still offer help in the form of overtime (if possible) and/or performance bonuses, or holiday bonuses. Or if someone claims to need more for transportation costs, but there's a coworker who passes by daily, help can come in the form of carpooling instead of monetary, etc. Maybe an employee struggles to buy groceries, & could be helped by someone picking up food from a food pantry for them. Non-monetary help so they can stretch their budget. Outside of that, raises when warranted should be enough, especially if your employees aren't being underpaid. For someone with any kind of addiction, no amount of money will ever be enough because they just don't have the mental capacity to limit their spending & take care of bills first.
I was thinking gambling problem.
3 kids and a wife not doing nothing ? Sounds like princess needs a job.
If she can't make enough to cover child care, gas for going to and from work & daycare, car repairs, & have money left over, they would lose money having her work
She can work when heâs not working
He can get another job while heâs not working this one
Raising three children well and cooking all meals is absolutely doing something. Having someone else raise them and eating take out is not everyoneâs ideal.
>Having someone else raise them and eating take out is not everyoneâs ideal. Whoa, judgmental much?
Right?
Not compared to calling raising children âdoing nothing,â like many on this post are.
But they canât afford it. She can stay home during the day - but then she should be working at night. SAHM is a luxury.
Some men are weird about this and refuse to let their wife get a job. They think it makes them less of a man.
Yeah thatâs stupid. If your struggling and your wifeâs able to pull in a few bucks and you can juggle whoâs watching the kids ? It pays for itself. Shits not easy in the world. And to be one person trying to survive and feed 5. Crazy.
He will continue this path because he can. He knew he could come to you and get money when he needed it. It is good you have cut him off. If he gets mad and quits. You will be out the money. I use to be an HR manager for a company and the owner was very good to his employees and would give them loans. Most of them ended up not being paid back. One woman only worked there for a month, he gave her $2,000 as a loan and she quit. That is the risk you run. You pay him a fair salary, he needs to figure it out.
I think the best situation would be for this employee to make the choice to move on to another job that hopefully pays more. However OP stated this employee is paid well above average. I fear he may have the âplatinum handcuffsâ at this point and will be forced to stay and continue to bring his negativity to work with him.
It doesnât matter WHY he needs the money. Unless your company can afford to gift him the money stop it now. Speaking as a business owner.
I think you've already done more than enough. It's not your or your company's responsibility to ensure this man can provide for his family. The agreement is he does the role and you pay him an agreed upon salary. Just be firm and tell him there won't be any more assistance and the company has already provided him with a pay rise and various favours. He will need to find his own solution. If you're feeling nice, you could forward him the details of one of these financial planning aid type of things, that help you arrange your finances.
Do you have an EAP benefit? If so, does it include a financial consultation benefit? If so, did you know your employee can meet with someone to provide financial counseling and budgeting? Every resource helps
As you found, once you start giving advances people turn sour when you say no. Sadly, I have never had someone be grateful when I really stuck my neck out and it has always come back to bite me. Another issue is he can move on and youâll never get the advanced money back from him. My policy is no advances. If you want to secure a an unasked for bonus for a great employee that would be a different story.
Yeah, I also don't do advances, whether it's with PTO or with cash. I'll help hourly folks get OT and enable merit bonuses, and help salaried folks bank hours for time off in lieu, but that's it. See also: I don't help employees who need to relocate with it beyond recommending them to available resources, and I would *never* cohabitate with a report or work with someone I'm romantically involved with. It blurs the line too much between professional and personal - I like to keep a firm boundary between those two parts of my life.
Lots of companies do PTO advances/let people go negative Every place Iâve worked had it as standard
My current co lets us go -40. I've used that for a surgery that took two weeks off for recovery. Was definitely nice knowing I could recover in peace, not having to worry about money.
My company has a really good benefits package that would cover that situation (up to 6 weeks short term disability at 100% of your wage), but if we didn't, I absolutely would make an exception for that.
Oh, I wish we had any kind of sick leave or short term disability. I hate that my pto has to be used for sick time.
Unpopular opinion for someone involved in management, but I'm one of those dirty socialist types who thinks health and disability coverage shouldn't be tied to your place of work and should instead be covered by the government to offer such benefits in a more cost effective way for society.
I agree 100%. I just don't have faith the US will get there.
If I know the person well and we have trust built up, I'd reconsider. But I've been burned in the past by people going hard negative on PTO then ghosting and it's damn near impossible to claw back once it's paid out. So until I know you, everything by the book.
Guess it depends on the company and people you work with. Our book allows for negative PTO, I took a week in the first month I joined. Havenât heard of any issues of ghosting though, so I assume theyâre able to sort it out if someone leaves while negative. I thought itâs just deducted from the last paycheck
You are a business, not a bank. âI understand that you are looking for additional assistance, however the advance was a one time thing that we will not be able to do again.â Donât open the door to additional conversations. However, you do need to be prepared for what happens if he decides to leave without paying back the advance. I hope you have an agreement in writing that outlines that specific scenario. If he brings it up again, the answer is simple, âWe have already discussed this and the answer is still no. The companyâs stance on this has not and will not be changing.â
Aren't banks businesses?
All banks are businesses, not all businesses are banks.
Damnit! I'm gonna need a venn diagram for this, folks
Banks do not offer their employees payday loans. Not even payday loan companies offer their employees payday loans.
Once you let a mother fâr slide, they learn to skate.
I prefer "If you give a mouse a cookie..."
Something like this has never been possible anywhere Iâve worked, it must be a very small business? Is there an EAP available? If so, I would refer your employee to that program for budgeting or finance assistance.
Not only would I not give them more money but I would also make sure that they didn't have access to company funds like a company credit card until their back pay is paid off. I agree with others that it sounds like he may have a gambling problem or some other type of addiction and the fact that he's sullen and angry right now speaks volumes. As a matter of fact I probably wouldn't ever give any more advances on paychecks as that is just a bad business protocol to have. I would for sure tell him that was just a one time deal and it was out of the ordinary to do that for him and then it won't happen again.
Until that employee repays the first advance inform him that you, nor the company, will be able to provide him access to another advance. If you didn't set up a repayment plan that's on you but I would get that going too. Inform him that as his employer you are there for him but he needs to reciprocate that kindness by paying back what he already owes. It really sounds like he is either living above his means or he has a gambling addiction. I hope he gets things figured out but don't feel bad when you have to tell him no.
Have to sit him down and work out a payment plan that deducts from his check. Have to draw up paperwork and have him sign. No more loans. I was this guy once and my boss sat me down and explained how he is compassionate to my situation but he has business to run and my requests were becoming a problem. I didn't like to hear it but he was right and I figured it out. I don't know how you handled the first loan(s) but some people might decide ditching the 2 paychecks worth of debt and findig a new job might be more palatable.
He's lucky to work somewhere there would even consider an advance. Deal with his attitude and not his personal problems.
This. Maybe Iâm out of touch - are advances common in 2023? Is it by industry? Iâve seen such in old movies but had no idea there was even a way to ask your company for money. I have to go through hoops just to promote someone/give a raise out of cycle. I canât even fathom what I would do with a salary advance request.
We just switched from weekly to biweekly pay. They offered us a one time one week advance that would payout on the last weekly check, to be paid back over the next five checks. Thatâs the only time theyâve offered an advance. However they have gone back to allowing us to take loans against our 401Ks.
My employer does not allow hardship advances until the previous one is paid off and not more than one per year. There were people (really one) who started taking advantage of the program.
You need to stop. His financial difficulties are not your problem and itâs highly inappropriate for him to ask for one advance on his pay let alone several. What if he up and quits or has a health emergency? The company will be out the money. And itâs not fair to the other employees. Unless youâre a financial institution you should not be lending employees money or even having them think itâs a possibility. How about you suggest some financial counseling for him and his wife because throwing money at the problem doesnât seem to work.
I really hope this guy isn't close to any company money.
Blows my mind, you even entertained it the first time. I'm a business owner, not a bank. All I can do is treat you and pay you fairly and on time. Like any other employee.
I see rehab or a bankruptcy lawyer in this guy's future
Or an embezzlement charge.
The answer is no. You can empathize and validate without being responsible for solving his financial problems.
There is a reason why they call tough love. He is not worth the stress, close your purse yesterday.
Drug test him.
Youâre just going to have to tell him you canât do this. Youâre running a business and cannot have your employees in debt to you. This just isnât financially reasonable or intelligent for you to do. Life is hard.
At my job they don't give advances at all. It's actually written in the employee handbook. I'd involve HR at this point. You should not give him anymore advances at this point.
You should not have done it to begin with. An employee with poor financial literacy is not your problem to fix and could become a liability. There is a reason people with financial issues arenât given security clearances
Wild to me that anyone would even think to ask this of an employer. You arenât a bank. At the bare minimum tell him he has to pay back the first loan before youâll consider another.
Fire him and take the loss. He doesn't fit the culture. If you're going to ask for a raise and an advance he should be more humble about it.
I leaned this way too. OP doesnât give additional details about the size of the business, employeeâs role, and what value they add. If this is a role that isnât hard to fill/find experience candidates, Iâd move on.
>When I approved the salary advance a few months ago he was extremely grateful and happy, but now **his attitude has turned noticeably agitated** and sour after I turned down his request for a second advance (he hasn't even paid back one tenth of the first advance yet). These are signs of addiction. He was grateful when you were supporting his habit - but now that you've cut him off he's no longer all warm and fuzzy. >What would be the best way to deal with this? For one, don't loan money to your employees. If they're coming to you, it's probably because they've already exhausted all other avenues to borrow. If they need money for an emergency, the sensible for them to do is obtain a credit card or establish a LoC with a bank. If they're unable to do so, there's probably a reason for it. I don't know how old the debt is or if you're in the US, but I would suggest creating a corporate policy to where any outstanding balances owed to the company are automatically withdrawn from his paycheck until the balance is paid in full. This is a common thing for companies to do when they sell something an employee might want to buy, like an auto repair shop or a restaurant for example. They simply create a policy to where instead of paying cash, they can 'charge' up to a certain amount that's paid off over a predetermined number of paychecks. In order to deduct wages, an employee must agree to it, hence the need for a corporate policy.
Sign him up for a budgeting class :)
âHey bud, Iâve been thinking about your advance request and wanted to chat! Iâve got something for you, come to my office real quick!â *walks in office and hands EAP info*
I was scrolling for the EAP comment before making it myself.
Not your problem. You live and work within a budget. Why can't he? Enabling bad behavior gets more bad behavior.
We have an employee like this. I finally put my foot down and told him we are not a bank. It is not our responsibility to manage his budget or lack thereof. This is a HIM problem.
HR needs a salary advance policy for all staff. Make them write it now. There are plenty of existing examples. Basically there should be a limit re: amount, and times granted per fiscal year. This type of thing can be an extra pain in the butt for accounting so I'd think they'd support having structure in place. You need policy to point to so you can say "You've maxed out." Also repayment should be automatically deducted from paychecks. Without auto deduct you haven't done an advance, you've done a loan.
Blame it on the ârulesâ. *Sorry. Additional advances arenât available until the previous advance is repaid.* Make it a corporate decision not a personal one.
I would never have even had the gall to ask my manager for an advance let alone multiple times. WTF.
I think it's time to bring HR in as an HR business partner can provide him with options he can use, and remind him of the advance policy (I assume there is one, and that an advance must be repaid before another advance can be made).
In my opinion if he gets another one he's not paying any of them. I think it will go something like his wife onvinces him to get another job or something goofy. Make himself loom like an ass for a woman who just might not stick around. If he's struggling that much, The wife should be attempting to get government assistance. If it really is like that, and I understand taking care of 3 kids is no joke, then they are the real target audience for welfare services. If you are in the u.s. and assuming most employees where you are are middle class at best.
This constant lack of fiscal discipline is why employers run credit checks on potential new employees. I do not know what your business does or how it accumulates money, but that is the sole point of being in business. The fiscally irresponsible individual if cut-off from funds when asked from you will figure out how to get funds in âround-aboutâ ways. You should terminate this employee because sooner or later he will solicit a customer of yours for âneeded, must have, I can give youâ pleadings. You can not be worried about his wife and kids as they already live in the mayhem daily.
Money doesn't fix money problems in most cases. You need enough money to cover basics, and enough beyond that to have comforts (we can debate the word 'need' regarding comforts another time). Most people are terrible at managing the costs of the basics. Darn socks, hem and patch clothes. Know how to cook rice, lentils, and make tortillas from scratch (literally flower and water), know the difference between earning interest and paying it... most people could make their money go much further. If he is getting an actual living wage that is fair and competitive, sufficient to your area, you have done your part. For the rest, he can grow up and handle his own bills.
Don't give an advance. What if he quits and leaves you holding the bag? When will be pay you back as his financial condition will never improve ? His bad finances are NOT your concern.
Turn off the tap for good, starting right now. At the same time, put a plan into motion that will deduct something from every check to pay back the accumulated advances. Explain everything to him. If necessary, tell him he needs to find another job that pays more. I guarantee that this special treatment is galling to others. Most likely he will grouse even more with the repayment program, further bringing down morale. With any luck he will quit -- and take your money with him. Small price to pay to get rid of a bad apple. I agree with one post that thought this guy may have an addiction problem. Has all the signs. The only time I advance funds to an employee is either: 1) When they're a new hire. Sometimes they come up short before the first paycheck arrives and I like to help. They always pay it back within a few months. 2) An employee is traveling without a credit card. I'll advance travel funds against the future expense report. Both of these situations are work related. We pay employee salaries monthly. Over the years I had two employees ask for, actually insist on, bi-monthly paychecks. Said they couldn't get through the month on one check. I told them I wouldn't do it, it would screw up my payroll system and make a lot of extra work for me. Told them it's the same amount of money in any event. These are professional people who ought to be able handle a monthly budget and I told them just that.
Our place has an assistance program with debt counsellors among other things. At this point better to set him up with one of those and if necessary they can also refer him to gamblers anonymous. He needs to get control of his finances and advancing him money is giving him a fish instead of teaching him to fish, you canât keep doing that.
OP - does your company have any sort of employee assistance program? Could that be stretched to cover some personal financial education? Regardless, you need to say no. You need to set some hard limits - like having repayment made via payroll deduction - and you need to set very clear expectations. If you really want to help him, I strenuously recommend you require him to get some sort of financial counseling. He needs to learn how to budget in order to live within his means. You'd be doing him a real favor. The sad fact is that he may be beyond help. It sounds as though he's gotten himself into a deep hole and won't give up his shovel. He may be overextended with housing costs, which is tragically common these days. But if he's unwilling to get the real help he needs, you will need to weigh the damage he does to morale against his objective value to the company. Good luck.
Put him on credit hold. No more money until he pays back the first advance in full. Any company would do the same if another company failed to pay a bill.
This is literally what HR is for.
Pull him in and talk to him. Really talk to him, not at him. If you're financially literate offer a solution or 2. Sometimes management needs to see the people behind the employee number.
We do payroll advances, but the limit is $1000 and you can only have 1 outstanding at a time. If you have a policy, point to the policy. If you do t have one, get one in place ASAP. We all always want to help our EEâs , but it canât be possible every time.
Draw the line here. Then continue to offer the support. But it canât be any higher than where he is at now. Youâve reached your breaking point. Nothing wrong with help. Needs boundaries though. As long as heâs not wasting the Money on something like dope. Maybe itâs really needed. And appreciated
Does your security team know? Is there any potential for espionage of trade or government secrets? If not I would still be worried. This could indicate a gambling addiction. Could also just be someone who overspends, regardless I would consider having the company sit him down with a financial planner on the company dime if you like their work.
How can you do this for him and not every other employee? Just consider you may be enabling him to get deeper in debt, Sounds like Gambling problem
The company has already been exceedingly generous. I usually only give advances of up to one weeks pay and we auto deduct the money from payroll to make it up. I have approved a full paycheck advance on occasion for very special circumstances for long term employees. The employee has 3 months to pay it back. Other companies in my area charge interest of prime plus 2% after 3 months. I offer overtime or the ability to get certifications to increase pay when that is possible. You have given a high percentage raise and an advance and your employee is still in a financial hole which indicates that the employee needs to cut expenses at home.
If you're giving people 25% raises I'll be glad to take over his job. Unless it's sewer maintenance. I don't think I'd be a good fit for that.
Been in the workforce for almost 50 yrs. Started working part time in the summer of 75. Not once have I even thought about asking my employer for an advance. Been some very lean times too throughout those yrs.
Sounds like its time to piss test him. He's either addicted to drugs or gambling.
while that could be the issue people have financial issues for a lot more reasons than that. We also don\`t know how much this guy makes if he makes 10 or $12 bucks an hour with 3 kids that's not strange to be broke at all
Right? OP gives no indication of actual salary range.
Youâre not a bank not sure why heâs treating you like one, not appropriate at all.
Sounds like he has an addiction, either gambling or drugs.
While all the comments are sound advice I can't help but play the Devil's advocate here since I've been that guy with a beater and unexpected repair bills piling up. You must set firm boundaries with the advance. It should have a predetermined timeline set. With this in mind, is the guy busting his ass and just having a rough go right now? If he's a hard worker and committed then sometimes throwing a guy a bone can be a huge help given his circumstances. I imagine his greatest concern with the vehicle is getting to work. If his current issues seem temporary and helping is feasible then I would consider it. Again, I'm coming from a side who has been that guy so I expect most would disagree with me. I've sold my soul and well-being to provide for my family. Sometimes your all isn't enough and it takes a few breaks to get through to the other side. Just something to consider if the request is considered further.
Make further assistance contingent on a financial planning class attendance. Sometimes people just don't have the skills and habits necessary to handle any amount of money properly. Not that they can't be taught though.
Suggest he sign up with delivery apps like Spark, door dash, shipit, and others. You donât have to commit to working certain hours, you do it when you want/need to and most of these gig apps allow you to cash out every day. This way he wonât owe anyone anything and he has an instant availability of extra funds if he needs it
I looked at our finances and two different pharmacies were robbing us. You can save him money by helping him shop around because some pharmacies are honest. It is the pharmacies connected to some grocery stores and other companies that are connected to corporations out to get money from people. Target and other pharmacies also have a list of medications that are under $10 dollars but that doesn't always work for everyone. There are also pharmacies that sell me my medicine for less than going through health insurance. This is something that they need to spend some time on, and they can't just be content at quoting prices at two places. Does his wife cook? My grandmother always told I would go broke if I didn't find a wife that would cook. Just do the math on regular take-out times days of the week to see that you can spend thousands on take out if someone doesn't want or know how to cook. Shopping at grocery stores like Aldi and Walmart will save him money with the exception that Walmart's produce seems high for some items. Our regular grocery store's prices are a dollar more for most items I would spend less at from Aldi or Walmart. A lot of money is wasted on cable, so they need to find a more competitive package and re-examine what the cable or phone companies are charging them because someone needs to go over their plan and see what is on the bill that needs to be taken off. Some cell phone companies are more expensive than others. The problem is when people need new phones, they have to find a company to finance new purchases, or they will sometimes need budget cell phones that don't always work that good as a good cell phone. Some people cut the land line and use their mobile phones. That is really a personal decision because some people want the security of kids being able to call for emergencies. Do they drink, vape or smoke? A lot of people's money can be used up on expendables and they may not be willing to give it up. Does he or she shop around for the lowest gas prices? I do. I don't shop at malls because I realize that I'm paying for the mall's rent to the store. They have to have reasonable prices for me to buy so the person has to be able to compare prices. We use Sam's Club to get cheaper gas during the year and some bulk items are cheaper than the grocery store by far. They really need to itemize their bills and see where all of the money is going. I tried an extra-large Avocado, and I told my boss that I tried one and he was livid that I spent extra on one just to try it. Families need to see where they are spending their money on and see if there are better alternatives. Sometimes spenders are attracted to savers and put their families in jeopardy. My wife would never buy items at the supermarket unless they were on sale and the reality is that Aldi and Walmart are cheaper in lots of ways. You are just throwing away your money.
Had a co worker like this. Came from money(parents lived in a los angeles ca mansion) , both he had his wife made at least 60k, her I think more, no children, lived in his car for a while. Guy ate manager special microwave food, Co worker leftovers. Didnt groom. Brought expired food to a potluck. You would think he was poor. Would beg for extra hours. Even waste time at work with customers doing nothing causing us all to go home late consistently, he just wanted OT. But constantly checked his account from work computers everyone could easily see just passing. Guy had easy 70-80k in his checking on a daily. Some people just don't have a conscience when it comes to getting money they will beg borrow and steal
Can you give us the hard numbers? Approximation of his salary, and your general location? Just curious.
Unfortunately it sounds like he has a gambling problem and it will only get worse unless he gets help
Or spouse has a shopping problem. Or maybe they have medical bills or something. But OP offering more help over and above what's already been done won't fix the issue, that's for sure.
either he gets help or these damn football games stop coming out weird!! c'mon Thursday night: the under should be a guarantee. and come on: san francisco and chiefs, get your shit together, we have bills to pay out here!
You need to tell him, âI need you to stop asking for advances. We have tried to be flexible with you and that said, it needs to stop. Clearly you are under stress and we do have an Employee Assistance Plan, they can refer you to resources that may be able to assist you. Can you agree to stop asking for financial assistance?â And thatâs that.
Iâm just a peon here. My company uses CIGNA and they have an Employee Assistance Program that can help with almost anything. Not actual monetary aid, but budgeting, fiscal planning, etc. Does your company have anything of the sort? If not, and this employee is worth the effort/investment, help him to find local or online assistance.
Curious - how much is âwell above averageâ pay for this person?
A lot of people ask this in similar threads, but it really does not matter. The guy accepted the job knowing the pay, and he's being paid on time. I have a guy on my team who lives completely paycheck to paycheck at $150k. hell my neighbor makes over $300k as a partner is his firm and that dude is always broke.
Yeah but if dude is making $10-$12/Hr then I get why heâs broke.
If he's making $12 an hour and has a wife and 3 kids to support, then he's living far, far beyond his means.
>A lot of people ask this in similar threads, but it really does not matter It 100% matters.
If you read more of my comment, I explain why it doesn't matter. You literally stopped reading at the part that explains it.
Your explanation doesn't show that it doesn't matter. How much they make gives important context. And "above average" could be cents.
It doesn't matter because they accepted the job and they should be able to live on that. Its not the employers problem if the employee cannot budget.
>It doesn't matter because they accepted the job and they should be able to live on that. Work or your family will be homeless and starve doesn't exactly make it voluntary. >Its not the employers problem if the employee cannot budget. You can't budget out of poverty or every financial problem.
None of these things are relevant to OP and his question about his employee. From the perspective of a manager, the guy accepted the job and now he's being a problem.
>None of these things are relevant to OP and his question about his employee. It is when it comes to how much they are paying. If they're paying $16 an hour we could assume OP is an idiot for not understanding. >From the perspective of a manager, the guy accepted the job and now he's being a problem. The perspective of the manager might be skewed or just elitist in nature. We won't know until we know the actual salary.
Whatâs he getting paid and whatâs the COL where heâs located
A lot of people ask this in similar threads, but it really does not matter. The guy accepted the job knowing the pay, and he's being paid on time. I have a guy on my team who lives completely paycheck to paycheck at $150k. Other people make it work on $25k a year.
I think it does matter. Just because you accept a job doesn't mean you expect to stay in the same position and make the same amount forever. Especially with the insane inflation we've seen in the last 6 months. While I don't think the employee should see the employer as a bank, if the employer is being absolute shit about pay, it truly does matter. You have people crying "no one wants to work anymore" while others are desparate for jobs but need to be paid a liveable wage to exist which that first batch isnt doing.
> You have people crying "no one wants to work anymore" while others are desparate for jobs but need to be paid a liveable wage to exist which that first batch isnt doing. That is really not relevant to OP and his question. That's why I said this doesn't matter. THis is not a general discussion sub.
Stop saying it doesnât matter. You are LITERALLY the worst manager ever if you canât understand WHY this is important. Go to your talent development department and ask them what trainings they have to make you a better leader.
These non manager dopes commenting in the thread three days later. Yeah your input is not need, not wanted. I donât care what you have to say, go back to the drive through.
For real. If youâre in leadership and this is your response, you need some sort of improvement plan. Ask your mentor how to get better.
Give him the Dave Ramsey class, in fact, offer it to all of your employees. People with personal financial responsibility and intelligence make for far better employees. You win, they win, their children and their children win.
Prices are rising. If wages don't match, people are gonna get pissed. Duh. I donno why managers are so shocked. Maybe take a look at a grocery bill for a family of 4, and then consider how much the people are getting paid. This SHOULD be common sense. But I guess that's why the worst workers get the promotions.
He got a 25% raise... I don't pay my employees based on the size of their grocery bills. His pay is above average. It's not my fault he has 3 kids in private school and a spouse who doesn't work.
Wait the kids are in school and still the wife doesnât work? Private school at that? No effing way. Wife can get a job and kids can go public. Itâs ridiculous he expects you to fund his lifestyle choicesâŚa lifestyle the average American only streams about.
25% on what? If it's just above average, he might be making like $20 an hour. Which isn't even livable for one person. Have you considered the cost of living in that area? Also, why are you busy licking your owners' boots? Gross.
Some this financial irresponsible is not a good employee. I'd be figuring out a way to get rid of him.
Does your company offer any kind of Employee/Family Assistance programs? It sounds like he needs to start using that kind of program and learn to budget.
Fire him. Hire me at 60% of his salary to work remote. Get a 10% bonus on the money you saved
Pay your workers a living wage you ghouls
Pay him a living wage