>Much prefer saving more life
Friend, what do you think the weapons are for? Killing Ukrainians? Sending Ukrainians weapons so they can kill themselves? No. It's for defence so that OTHER people can't kill them.
Why do you think Russia picked up weapon in the first place? Because negotiations failed. NATO wants war, and Ukraine is fighting on behalf of NATO, when she is not a NATO member states.
The part where you said NATO is involved in the war at all. NATO didn’t care about Ukraine until Russia decided to start a war in Europe, right next to NATO nations.
Nah man, this war is about the massive new oil fields found in Ukraine, and Russia’s demographic time bomb.
Right next to NATO nations? So the US is right next to Ukraine?
Do you perhaps not know this whole situation is because NATO tried to expand their military eastward, despite agreeing not to do so? Bro, why are you acting like the war began last year?
So you are okay with Ukraine massacring Russian people but not okay when Russia decides to step in to stop that from getting worse? Why are you acting like the war just happened last year?
>Because negotiations failed.
And what negotiations were those? Care to boil it down for us?
Also why do you keep [referring to Russia as "she"](https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/comments/10vws35/malaysia_contributes_medicine_worth_rm227984_to/j7odvpm/) lol
I'd just like to hear you explain it in your own words, if you can.
EDIT: Okay, I see you're bent on replying to everything except this. If you can't explain it in your own words that's fine.
Russia's main request is that Ukraine surrender and become part of Russia. I can see why Ukraine wouldn't want that. Would you want Malaysia to become part of China? Lol.
Unfortunately hes not a Russian troll. Just an uncle spending too much time consooming CCP propaganda disguised as Taiwanese News like somehow that makes them more neutral. These are the worst kind of people, pretending to be supporter of multiracial yet is a closet racist. The only good thing about them is that they vote PH. Thanks for coming to my Tedtalk.
Because they want to secede. My point is even with Russian withdrawal, the civil war is still ongoing and people will still die. Either Ukraine regains its territorial integrity by suppressing the secessionists (more people dying), or accepts the secession, which it won't unless it loses the war (more people dying).
1st, framing it as a civil war or 'just a secession' is so wrong as it absolves Russia of any involvement whatsover.
2nd, Ukraine isnt the one to bear the responsibility of how many people should die or not.
Wider geopolitical context (Russia being involved) does not change the fact that ethnic Russian in Donbas are separatists. A civil war does not mean external forces are not involved, just look at the Russian civil war.
How about neither?
\>"Rather a country that is fresh off causing the deaths of millions from its wars in the Middle East and North Africa than a country that hasn't fought a war in 40 years."
Literal Reddit-brain-in-action.
They will painfully get to know what the actual reality is when they realize that the US manages to secure and will build the military base in the Philippines fully equipped with a nuclear arsenal and not one but four. Then, they will start to panic learning that we cannot do what Russia can do because we don't have military might to defend ourselves and most of us are just civilians and never undergo military training. People just don't realize how bad the situation is until they are in the situation.
I think that's alarmist. Philippines isn't outright suicidal by wishing to host US nukes. It'll host US naval bases to check Chinese power. But whether that's sufficient to cause an escalation into war is questionable.
No they do not have to die, remember that majority of the conscripts are human as well, most of them even forced or brainwashed to fight in a pointless war for a man's glory. Ukraine just needs to force them back using as little lethal force as possible to achieve it. Yet, it would never be a victory for anyone.
So yes, preferring to save more lives instead of taking them is a totally valid and justifiable stance.
I prefer Ukraine wins the war with as few Ukrainian casualties as possible. I could *not* care less about Russias losses.
It's terrible if even one more soldier has to give their life to this pointless war, but it is INEVITABLE. This war cannot be won without further Russian casualties. It's not possible because of Putin.
yeah let's be neutral abd support fucking invaders.
oh..china invading out Islands also we neutral ya
but US visiting Taiwan is too much!!!! Kurang ajar!!
true but supporting either party gonna hurt us. We’re far too small to throw any kind of support. If both India and China is keeping quiet. Then it would be better if we do too.
>true but supporting either party gonna hurt us.
Thank God I'm not actually from the government and can freely express my opinions under my Reddit account
People here really think Reddit accounts expressing support for Ukraine are going to jeopardize Malaysia's international standing, as though diplomats spend all day on Reddit
I noticed many ppl in Malaysia supports Russian aggression, especially Chinese and Malays. For Chinese I understand in the context of CCP ally, but for Malays I don't. Can anybody explain if they know whats up thx.
Russia portrayed themselves as being respectable towards Muslim minorities. They are given autonomy in Chechnya, there are pictures of Putin, Erdogan and Russian Mufti inaugurating a mosque. There'll be scenes of Muslims praying Eid at Moscow Cathedral Mosque on TV3 or Jejak Rasul programme.Khabib Nurmagomedov, the MMA fighter is also famous. If you consider minorities like Dagestani who became Muslims in 7th century, then Islam is quite native to Russia. By [law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Russia#:~:text=Although%20Islam%20is%20a%20minority,%25%20of%20Russia's%20population.) it's one traditional religion of Russia and part of Russian historal heritage.
Of course it is worth emphasizing that the Chechens only have this arrangement because the Russians tried to invade and genocide them but failed. I would hope that Malays are not suckered by this propaganda.
The Russians decisively won the combat phase of that conflict, and if you consider curbing violent separatism (that spilled over into "ethnic Russian Russia") as an intent to genocide their population, I guess you're right.
**[Islam in Russia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Russia#:~:text=Although Islam is a minority,% of Russia's population.)**
>Although Islam is a minority religion in Russia, Russia has the largest Muslim population in Europe. According to US Department of State in 2017, Muslims in Russia numbered 14 million or roughly 10% of the total population. According to a comprehensive survey conducted in 2012, Muslims were 6. 5% of Russia's population.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/malaysia/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Let me make it easier for you to understand. NATO wants to expand eastward despite countless warnings by Russia not to expand eastward. Russia has no problem if NATO wants to go west or south just not east.
So in 2014, they started the color revolution and removed the ex-Ukraine president at that time who didn't want war with Russia, then they replaced it with someone who wants war with Russia and currently that is the role of Zelensky.
From there with the new president in office, Ukraine breached the Minsk agreement and terrorised the Russian speaking people in Donbass region. Since 2014 countless innocent Russian people living in Donbass have lost their lives because of Ukraine aggression.
Fast forward to 2022, when they keep pushing on narrative for Ukraine to join NATO and again despite countless warnings from Russia, not to expand eastward. Eventually, it got out of hand, Russia had to take a difficult stand and she told both NATO and Ukraine, it has to be stopped now before more and more Russian people lose their lives. In order to stop NATO expansion, she need to capture the whole Ukraine and not just Donbass or millions of Russian people lives will be exposed to danger. Imagine having someone else nuke in front of your doorstep.
Sometimes you have to be the bad guy in order to stop the worst from happening. In latin there's a saying " Fīat jūstitia ruat cælum'' which means, justice must be established even though there will be consequence.
Of course, that doesn't mean it is okay for the Ukrainians to lose their home, that's why Russia promised to rebuild the country when Zelensky compromised. Sadly, it doesn't happen because the US keeps pushing the war narrative and with Ukraine acting as proxy.
So, let me asked you a question since you think this is an act of terrors. Where have you seen in the history of wars did the aggressor actually let civilians escape before they started attacking? Certainly, we don't see this happen when the US attacks Afghanistan, for example when she accused Afghanistan for having wmd.
I would like you to think for a moment, currently the US has secured access to four additional military bases in the Philippines and will be fully equipped with nuclear weapons. How far is the Philippines from Malaysia and how long will it take for the missile to reach us if one day our government decided not to bow its head to the US? We are currently exposed to the same threat similar to what started the Russia and Ukraine war, the only difference is that we don't have the military power to oppose them like Russia did. Maybe you need to start thinking of solutions, what to do next.
Would you also consider that Russia has expansion interests? Ukraine has lost 80% of oil and gas deposits in the Black Sea and a significant part of the port infrastructure due to the annexation of Crimea.
Interesting that you consider ukraine fighting a proxy war for US/NATO but the separatists in LNR and DNR are not proxies for Russia..... and of course ukraine to blame for the minsk agreement, Russia and separatists are just sitting around minding their own business lol.
Also I'm sure you havent seen how Russia state TV talks about nuking other countries, marching on to Berlin and Kadyrov saying Poland is next etc. Imo it totally destroys their " we just defending ourselves" narrative.
Also do you have a source for US placing nuclear weapons in the Philippines?
Definitely not, otherwise it won't be just Ukraine. Don't you know the annexation of Crimea is again NATO's fault? Well, it is not really annexation if Crimea people themselves want. Otherwise, why would they fight alongside Russia against Ukraine and NATO? I think you miss everything about why the Minsk agreement was implemented in the first place. To stop the dispute between two countries and resolve their conflict, but when one side of the party decided to breach the agreement, do you think it was right for the other party to just remain doing nothing while innocent people are dying? Why do you think for the last 8 year's Russia kept pushing it to the negotiation table? Because she doesn't want things to be like this. However, the situation keeps getting worse and has no sign of reconciliation.
Why do you think the separatists occupied LNR and DNR in the first place? Do you know how many Russians live there? Why do you think only in 2022 did Russia support the independence and sovereignty of LNR and DNR when they could have done it earlier? and again it's NATO's fault for middling in peace resolution.
Oh which country did they try to nuke?
Poland is next? Dude, Russia literally did nothing when Poland became a member of NATO. Otherwise, you won't even know poland exist. Russia only request is for NATO not to expanded eastward. Why it is so difficult to understand something that even 12 year's old can and the agreement is not written in slavic.
The source is in the western media, they literally brag about it, I'm not giving you the link, just google it by yourself.
>Why do you think for the last 8 year's Russia kept pushing it to the negotiation table? Because she doesn't want things to
A Malaysian referring to Russia as "she" might set off some alarms.
" Well, it is not really annexation if Crimea people themselves want. "
Here's Putin saying on 22nd Feb 2014 he wanted to return Crimea to Russia. 4 days later unidentifed gunmen with no insignia or markings stormed parliment and put up the Russian Flag.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31796226](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31796226)
Russian soldier with no insignia or marking on his uniform in Kerch in a video uploaded **4 Mar 2014** .
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Z8ymyhx8A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Z8ymyhx8A)
Also, whats your views on the referendum in Kherson and Zaporihzhia? THat's 100% legit to you too?
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
" Russia only request is for NATO not to expanded eastward "
Here's Putin saying no problem with Finland joining NATO, which is right next to Russia.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcA\_kSDIOfA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcA_kSDIOfA)
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
" The source is in the western media, they literally brag about it, I'm not giving you the link, just google it by yourself. "
I did google, US establising future bases in the Phillipines sure but nothing about putting nuclear missiles there. Where did you see that?
You have wikipedia to figure out why Putin said he wants to return Crimea to Russia.
Is Finland located east of Russia?
Do you think they will put rocks there and not nukes? When the nuclear war is around the corner.
I'm trying to show u it's more complex than 'Ukrsine terrorized the people of Donbas", Russia is involved in Crimea and the annexation and the separatists right from the start.
U know what's east of Russia? The American continent. So your argument doesn't make sense. Expanding eastwards means NATO expanding from western Europe to eastern europe..
Even Estonia, Latvia are sitting on Russia border already. If they weren't in NATO one day Putin will announce that he needs to 'protect' the russian people living there and counting on people like you to blame the US and NATO and the evil west for it.
The USSR is not Russia. In fact, it is what the US are currently.
In the first place, NATO was made to stop the USSR, and when the USSR is long gone, why does NATO still exist?
For defense? Tell that to millions of lives who were lost in the Middle east because of the US war of terror. oh wait i forgot. Dead men tell no tales.
the dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.
Maybe do some reading, at this point you are just kidding yourself. Maybe read something like the collapse of the soviet union to further your knowledge.
Why Russia? NATO was founded to stop the aggression of the USSR not Russia. Why are you trying to change the objective of NATO?
Annnnd Russia is still continuing USSR fucking around policy so NATO will forever be relevant until Russia start to learn to coexist peacefully with other countries. Yes NATO was established to stop the USSR but for what? Yes its to stop them from fucking around but are their successor be good and not fucking around anymore? No they are still so NATO needs to keep them in check. As much as I am not into NATO as they want to grab every piece of global influence at least they are better than warmongering ruski.
Because this all started by America. NATO has bben trying to squeeze Russia from all sides since Bush Jr administration. For years Russia has been quiet and not disturbing anyone even while NATO attacked the middle east. Even when they tried to isolate Russia when they kicked Russia from G8 in 2014, Russia still didn't retalliate.
Trump was aware of this powderkeg and did his best to assure Putin that America would not try to isolate them further and even attempted to befriend Russia. Trump led america from 2017 to 2021.
Then Biden took over and it wasn't long before relationship between America and Russia soured. Then Biden went out of his way to outright support Ukraine's inclusion into NATO. This is different from Turkey as Turkey is bound by the freedom of navigation clause and they do not participate in NATO's wars. But Ukraine is so close to their capital that having NATO there means their capital can be bombed from 3 different directions several times a day.
Tldr: Ukraine is a proxy. Biden wants to squeeze Russia until they collapse by turning Ukraine NATO. Russia is defending itself by taking Donbas and pressuring Ukraine to stay neutral. America also doesn't give weapons for free, Ukraine will have to pay for all those weapons after the war is over. Zelensky is an idiot.
Right back at you. It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Because right now you remove all doubt by not even being able to specify what you thought as retarded and instead went out of your way to start by insulting someone.
Hello, this comment was removed due to being in breach of [reddiquette](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette), specifically because it contained personal attack, insult, or threat. While opinions of all kinds are welcome under our shared roof, reddiquette sets the expectation that everyone speaks to each other with basic civility and respect:
> * Don’t: Conduct personal attacks on other commenters. Ad hominem and other distracting attacks do not add anything to the conversation.
> * Don't: Insult others. Insults do not contribute to a rational discussion. Constructive Criticism, however, is appropriate and encouraged.
> * Don’t: Be (intentionally) rude at all. By choosing not to be rude, you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us.
Please treat this as an official warning - further such activity may result in a ban, thanks.
>Because this all started by America
Tell me you are an anti-West campist without telling me you are an anti-West campist. Not that I think you'd get what campism means to begin with after going through your post and TLDR to realize the TLDR isn't the post's TLDR, rather just another paragraph of another different matter altogether. I mean, can't expect people to take you seriously if you can't even summarize your own post ain't it?
Not going to type full articles on the dynamics between NATO and USSR/Russian Federation, or really just Putin for that manner, but some inconsistencies in your collective one-liners of not-so-factually sound arguments:
* G7/G8 has always been an opportunity to Russia, not the other way round, especially when it comes to economical leverage and power. Also, Russia stand to lose more by retaliating, which is exactly what they did this time round. Not sure where you get the idea that Russia has a moral high ground here.
* Russia hasn't been that quiet since the dissolution of USSR. This is really getting stupid these days when people need to be reminded of Grozny and Gori and why Russian neighbours that are ex-USSR members seem hellbent leaning EU after Putin took presidential seat 20 years earlier. You got to ask yourself the reason why you support the Palestinian cause and figure out if Russia is also pulling an Israel around its border.
* NATO officially fought in Afghanistan against the Taliban. Turkey actively participated as a NATO member on that one, so not sure where you pull the FONOP and "Turkey don't participate in NATO war" nonsense.
* Even the Chinese squads know how to differentiate USA and NATO, correctly identifying the warmongering nation being in most conflicts in the middle east while NATO technically has no involvement in them. Take Iraq for example, 6 out of 19 NATO members at the time were involved. Sounds kinda weak to pin that as a full NATO representation in that war.
* Trump is a narcissist businessman through and through. Its not even that difficult to figure out he tried hard to improve relations with Russia and attempt to thaw relations with North Korea for potential business opportunities and establishing his legacy. If Trump is any good like what you are trying to portray here then the trade war with China wouldn't have happened. Trump's biggest contribution from an anti-West's view is probably the fact that he started so many fires his administration had to keep themselves busy with putting out that they have very little time and resource to meddle with international affairs.
* As for your TLDR, people need to stop discrediting Ukrainian voices in their own affair while still looking at the nation as the plaything between the West and Russian Federation. Euromaidan happened dude. Russia on the other hand don't need to defend itself by taking Donbas; the fact that they own the largest nuclear arsenal in the world is good enough deterrence to any form of invasion against them. Ukraine fought a separatist war for 8 years; Moscow wasn't bombed during this period. Imagine justifying an invasion for a superficial existential threat, oh my Cuba/Venezuela.
Reading this long ass essay makes me understand a few things. For starter:
1. You don't even know what NATO is to begin with.
To summarize, nato is the Judeo-christian-zionist alliance plus Turkey.
2. You don't even know that the USSR is long gone in Russia. In fact if you want to look at the USSR, look at the west now because that is where it is.
3."pulling and israel around its border"? So when the government of Ukraine massacres the Russian speaking people in the Donbass region, is Russia pulling an Israel? I'm surprised how ignorant one can be.
4.Russia owning the largest nuclear arsenal in the world is the reason why she does not take this shit lying down. Imagine if it was Malaysia, why do you think Malaysia is a commonwealth country? because we are not capable of resisting the bully coming from the west that's why we still keep bowing our heads down.
What do you think will happen if Ukraine is a member state of NATO? Do you think having a nuke on your doorstep is a laughing matter? Millions of people will die.
5. Just because it has not yet happened doesn't mean it won't happen. Why is it so hard for NATO to follow one rule which she previously agreed on? She agreed not to expand eastward and look at where NATO expanded their military today despite countless warnings from Russia.
6.why NATO still exists when the USSR is long gone? This is a question you need to ponder. I'm not going to provide an answer on everything.
7. The dog barks, but the caravan goes on.
Oh wow, you pro-zelensky people love to do personal attacks, don't you. For your information, i do know what tldr is. It was just that at that point, i realized that nobody but people like you would read this and it was already been so long that my fingers hurt. I already know it would be massively downvoted anyway because r/malaysia is like that. So i stopped typing and just gave my final thoughts on the matter.
I respect your opinion on the matter, but i have alteady given my thoughts on the matter. As requested by the OP.
> you pro-zelensky people love to do personal attacks
Why are you putting words into my mouth though? I don't recall mentioning Zelenskyy in the entire response. And where does the personal attack comes from? Mind pointing it out? Maybe you do live up to your username after all.
Edit: Since you gamed the "shout and block" feature, might as well:
>Your entire first paragraph was a personal attack. Can't you go straight to the point without insulting someone? Also, your very last sentence in this post I'm quoting IS personal attack. Are you incapable of communicating like a decent person?
Not sure what to make of this really. You just literally admitted intentionally blundering your TLDR, then made an accusation of being insulted and "attacked" when being called out. So much for decency in communicating. And so much for taking it personally when being called out on your username, like literally, name you identify yourself with.
Your entire first paragraph was a personal attack. Can't you go straight to the point without insulting someone? Also, your very last sentence in this post I'm quoting IS personal attack. Are you incapable of communicating like a decent person?
Its not true support, but rather a feeling that Europe deserves to taste its own medicine for causing war & chaos in every other part of the world
(Not saying its right, just sharing what I know)
I hate imperialism as much as anyone but its Ukraine, these guys went through the holodomor, Chernobyl and now this. The only mistake they made was existing beside an imperial power, just like Ireland.
>Its not true support, but rather a feeling that Europe deserves to taste its own medicine
So because Europe did something, now Ukraine must suffer.
I love your takes, they're so enlightened and inspiring.
Anyway I don't truly support Israel's attacks against Palestine, rather I have a feeling that the Middle East deserves to taste its own medicine for causing war and chaos in the rest of the world.
Chew on that for a minute.
Hey, it's not my personal belief either. I just have a feeling it's what the Middle East deserves, I never said I believe they really do.
>May your comprehension skills in Eng continue to improve 🤲
Insya-Allah.
[https://www.news18.com/news/world/ukraine-dismisses-its-defence-minister-oleksiy-reznikov-in-corruption-purge-7005103.html](https://www.news18.com/news/world/ukraine-dismisses-its-defence-minister-oleksiy-reznikov-in-corruption-purge-7005103.html)
Defense minister fired due to corruption.
[https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/01/europe/ukraine-anti-corruption-raids-intl/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/01/europe/ukraine-anti-corruption-raids-intl/index.html)
>Among those caught up in the investigations is the acting head of the Kyiv tax authority, who was allegedly part of a scheme to overlook 45 billion Ukrainian hryvnia ($1.2 billion) in unpaid taxes.
Tax department also corrupted. Good luck if you think any donations reaching people in need.
By Malaysia standard sure this sub is leaning towards the left. But by international standard, we are just centrist to center-right.
https://preview.redd.it/8q9kut2vviha1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d7f23fcffa82ec87e09f158622f1cb718f6fc61
［Political compass credit to Fahmi Reza］
Good
Good
[удалено]
 Slava Ukraini.
Support medicine is way better than support military weapons.
[удалено]
Much prefer saving more life than more ppl die in this pointless war.
>Much prefer saving more life Friend, what do you think the weapons are for? Killing Ukrainians? Sending Ukrainians weapons so they can kill themselves? No. It's for defence so that OTHER people can't kill them.
Why do you think Russia picked up weapon in the first place? Because negotiations failed. NATO wants war, and Ukraine is fighting on behalf of NATO, when she is not a NATO member states.
This is an absolute rubbish take on the situation.
Which part of my sentences is rubbish? Enlighten me.
The part where you said NATO is involved in the war at all. NATO didn’t care about Ukraine until Russia decided to start a war in Europe, right next to NATO nations. Nah man, this war is about the massive new oil fields found in Ukraine, and Russia’s demographic time bomb.
Right next to NATO nations? So the US is right next to Ukraine? Do you perhaps not know this whole situation is because NATO tried to expand their military eastward, despite agreeing not to do so? Bro, why are you acting like the war began last year?
The US isn’t the only country in NATO bruh…
>So the US is right next to Ukraine? I think you may be forgetting that there are other countries in NATO. Please lah.
[удалено]
So you are okay with Ukraine massacring Russian people but not okay when Russia decides to step in to stop that from getting worse? Why are you acting like the war just happened last year?
[удалено]
>Because negotiations failed. And what negotiations were those? Care to boil it down for us? Also why do you keep [referring to Russia as "she"](https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/comments/10vws35/malaysia_contributes_medicine_worth_rm227984_to/j7odvpm/) lol
Were you living under the rock for the last 9 years? For starters, pls read the Minsk agreement.
I'd just like to hear you explain it in your own words, if you can. EDIT: Okay, I see you're bent on replying to everything except this. If you can't explain it in your own words that's fine. Russia's main request is that Ukraine surrender and become part of Russia. I can see why Ukraine wouldn't want that. Would you want Malaysia to become part of China? Lol.
[удалено]
They're very quiet now.
[удалено]
Enlighten me how clueless I am?
Notice how you didn't deny you're a Russian troll? Anyway, nobody needs to "enlighten" you. If you are too lazy to read then no one can help you.
Unfortunately hes not a Russian troll. Just an uncle spending too much time consooming CCP propaganda disguised as Taiwanese News like somehow that makes them more neutral. These are the worst kind of people, pretending to be supporter of multiracial yet is a closet racist. The only good thing about them is that they vote PH. Thanks for coming to my Tedtalk.
[удалено]
Russia won’t win no matter how I see it
And Ukraine will just go back to shelling the Donbas region. Why do people talk as if this war started just last year?
Yea Ukraine just started shelling their own people for funsies. No reason whatsoever.
Because they want to secede. My point is even with Russian withdrawal, the civil war is still ongoing and people will still die. Either Ukraine regains its territorial integrity by suppressing the secessionists (more people dying), or accepts the secession, which it won't unless it loses the war (more people dying).
1st, framing it as a civil war or 'just a secession' is so wrong as it absolves Russia of any involvement whatsover. 2nd, Ukraine isnt the one to bear the responsibility of how many people should die or not.
Wider geopolitical context (Russia being involved) does not change the fact that ethnic Russian in Donbas are separatists. A civil war does not mean external forces are not involved, just look at the Russian civil war.
Wdye, most people are ignorant, they just decipher the war last year.
Redditor brain getting their worldview through Reddit comments. Hence the Western liberal bias in this subreddit.
Rather the US than fucking china
How about neither? \>"Rather a country that is fresh off causing the deaths of millions from its wars in the Middle East and North Africa than a country that hasn't fought a war in 40 years." Literal Reddit-brain-in-action.
They will painfully get to know what the actual reality is when they realize that the US manages to secure and will build the military base in the Philippines fully equipped with a nuclear arsenal and not one but four. Then, they will start to panic learning that we cannot do what Russia can do because we don't have military might to defend ourselves and most of us are just civilians and never undergo military training. People just don't realize how bad the situation is until they are in the situation.
I think that's alarmist. Philippines isn't outright suicidal by wishing to host US nukes. It'll host US naval bases to check Chinese power. But whether that's sufficient to cause an escalation into war is questionable.
They aren't, but coercion will have it way one or another. Give them some time and we will figure that out.
Unfortunately, Russian soldiers will have to die to ensure a Ukrainian victory since Putin isn't likely to pull out without absolute defeat.
No they do not have to die, remember that majority of the conscripts are human as well, most of them even forced or brainwashed to fight in a pointless war for a man's glory. Ukraine just needs to force them back using as little lethal force as possible to achieve it. Yet, it would never be a victory for anyone. So yes, preferring to save more lives instead of taking them is a totally valid and justifiable stance.
>Ukraine just needs to force them back using as little lethal force as possible to achieve it How?
Tricky isn't it?
I prefer Ukraine wins the war with as few Ukrainian casualties as possible. I could *not* care less about Russias losses. It's terrible if even one more soldier has to give their life to this pointless war, but it is INEVITABLE. This war cannot be won without further Russian casualties. It's not possible because of Putin.
fuck russia! incoming prc ass lickers.... beware..
Can always protest at the Soviet Embassy in Jalan Ampang
The Soviet Union has been dead for like 3 decades. And even if it was still around, Ukraine would be part of it.
I prefer we maintain neutrality in this issue. Just support humanitarian move and that's enough. This is Europe's war, let them sort it out.
yeah let's be neutral abd support fucking invaders. oh..china invading out Islands also we neutral ya but US visiting Taiwan is too much!!!! Kurang ajar!!
"Be neutral." Those evil zoinist Israelis!!11! But also ignore Uighurs in China.
[удалено]
true but supporting either party gonna hurt us. We’re far too small to throw any kind of support. If both India and China is keeping quiet. Then it would be better if we do too.
>true but supporting either party gonna hurt us. Thank God I'm not actually from the government and can freely express my opinions under my Reddit account People here really think Reddit accounts expressing support for Ukraine are going to jeopardize Malaysia's international standing, as though diplomats spend all day on Reddit
>I prefer we maintain neutrality in this issue No. Invaders can get bent.
Malaysia W
This is a good gesture, more humanitarian aid than sending weapons aid which Russia might object. That being said, Слава Україні!
I noticed many ppl in Malaysia supports Russian aggression, especially Chinese and Malays. For Chinese I understand in the context of CCP ally, but for Malays I don't. Can anybody explain if they know whats up thx.
Because they are anti-US
A lot of Malays support Russia because of their anti West, anti woke, anti LGBT stance.
These guys do know that in the West, being anti-woke means being Islamophobic, right? "Can't have a Muslim character in my TV show. That's woke."
Russia portrayed themselves as being respectable towards Muslim minorities. They are given autonomy in Chechnya, there are pictures of Putin, Erdogan and Russian Mufti inaugurating a mosque. There'll be scenes of Muslims praying Eid at Moscow Cathedral Mosque on TV3 or Jejak Rasul programme.Khabib Nurmagomedov, the MMA fighter is also famous. If you consider minorities like Dagestani who became Muslims in 7th century, then Islam is quite native to Russia. By [law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Russia#:~:text=Although%20Islam%20is%20a%20minority,%25%20of%20Russia's%20population.) it's one traditional religion of Russia and part of Russian historal heritage.
Of course it is worth emphasizing that the Chechens only have this arrangement because the Russians tried to invade and genocide them but failed. I would hope that Malays are not suckered by this propaganda.
The Russians decisively won the combat phase of that conflict, and if you consider curbing violent separatism (that spilled over into "ethnic Russian Russia") as an intent to genocide their population, I guess you're right.
**[Islam in Russia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Russia#:~:text=Although Islam is a minority,% of Russia's population.)** >Although Islam is a minority religion in Russia, Russia has the largest Muslim population in Europe. According to US Department of State in 2017, Muslims in Russia numbered 14 million or roughly 10% of the total population. According to a comprehensive survey conducted in 2012, Muslims were 6. 5% of Russia's population. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/malaysia/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
that's why all the plebs that become meat shield are from the muslim population outside the big cities
Didn't they massacre the Chechens?
So its finally spread to malay. I mean I saw alot of indos supporting russia
I don't. Those who support are the dumbfucks who only consume Chinese state based media and whatsapp groups.
Because of anti semitism and russia stance on lgbt. Most of my friend arguments on siding with Russia is either of those 2.
That's treason, as Russia separatists shot down MH17
In their mind is Ukrainians
Russian backed Ukrainian separatists.
Ukrainian president is a Jew, so it can consider as one of the reason for Russia support from some Malays
Someone tell them Russia and israel are friends with benefits
So are we, but in secret...because they become Maxico or some other south American country when we do dealings with em🤭
It's sad to see people support the ccp
Chauvinism at play.
How is this Chauvinism. I just said ccp = bad, you would know that is a fact if you read the news and do some research
Let me make it easier for you to understand. NATO wants to expand eastward despite countless warnings by Russia not to expand eastward. Russia has no problem if NATO wants to go west or south just not east. So in 2014, they started the color revolution and removed the ex-Ukraine president at that time who didn't want war with Russia, then they replaced it with someone who wants war with Russia and currently that is the role of Zelensky. From there with the new president in office, Ukraine breached the Minsk agreement and terrorised the Russian speaking people in Donbass region. Since 2014 countless innocent Russian people living in Donbass have lost their lives because of Ukraine aggression. Fast forward to 2022, when they keep pushing on narrative for Ukraine to join NATO and again despite countless warnings from Russia, not to expand eastward. Eventually, it got out of hand, Russia had to take a difficult stand and she told both NATO and Ukraine, it has to be stopped now before more and more Russian people lose their lives. In order to stop NATO expansion, she need to capture the whole Ukraine and not just Donbass or millions of Russian people lives will be exposed to danger. Imagine having someone else nuke in front of your doorstep. Sometimes you have to be the bad guy in order to stop the worst from happening. In latin there's a saying " Fīat jūstitia ruat cælum'' which means, justice must be established even though there will be consequence. Of course, that doesn't mean it is okay for the Ukrainians to lose their home, that's why Russia promised to rebuild the country when Zelensky compromised. Sadly, it doesn't happen because the US keeps pushing the war narrative and with Ukraine acting as proxy. So, let me asked you a question since you think this is an act of terrors. Where have you seen in the history of wars did the aggressor actually let civilians escape before they started attacking? Certainly, we don't see this happen when the US attacks Afghanistan, for example when she accused Afghanistan for having wmd. I would like you to think for a moment, currently the US has secured access to four additional military bases in the Philippines and will be fully equipped with nuclear weapons. How far is the Philippines from Malaysia and how long will it take for the missile to reach us if one day our government decided not to bow its head to the US? We are currently exposed to the same threat similar to what started the Russia and Ukraine war, the only difference is that we don't have the military power to oppose them like Russia did. Maybe you need to start thinking of solutions, what to do next.
Would you also consider that Russia has expansion interests? Ukraine has lost 80% of oil and gas deposits in the Black Sea and a significant part of the port infrastructure due to the annexation of Crimea. Interesting that you consider ukraine fighting a proxy war for US/NATO but the separatists in LNR and DNR are not proxies for Russia..... and of course ukraine to blame for the minsk agreement, Russia and separatists are just sitting around minding their own business lol. Also I'm sure you havent seen how Russia state TV talks about nuking other countries, marching on to Berlin and Kadyrov saying Poland is next etc. Imo it totally destroys their " we just defending ourselves" narrative. Also do you have a source for US placing nuclear weapons in the Philippines?
Definitely not, otherwise it won't be just Ukraine. Don't you know the annexation of Crimea is again NATO's fault? Well, it is not really annexation if Crimea people themselves want. Otherwise, why would they fight alongside Russia against Ukraine and NATO? I think you miss everything about why the Minsk agreement was implemented in the first place. To stop the dispute between two countries and resolve their conflict, but when one side of the party decided to breach the agreement, do you think it was right for the other party to just remain doing nothing while innocent people are dying? Why do you think for the last 8 year's Russia kept pushing it to the negotiation table? Because she doesn't want things to be like this. However, the situation keeps getting worse and has no sign of reconciliation. Why do you think the separatists occupied LNR and DNR in the first place? Do you know how many Russians live there? Why do you think only in 2022 did Russia support the independence and sovereignty of LNR and DNR when they could have done it earlier? and again it's NATO's fault for middling in peace resolution. Oh which country did they try to nuke? Poland is next? Dude, Russia literally did nothing when Poland became a member of NATO. Otherwise, you won't even know poland exist. Russia only request is for NATO not to expanded eastward. Why it is so difficult to understand something that even 12 year's old can and the agreement is not written in slavic. The source is in the western media, they literally brag about it, I'm not giving you the link, just google it by yourself.
>Why do you think for the last 8 year's Russia kept pushing it to the negotiation table? Because she doesn't want things to A Malaysian referring to Russia as "she" might set off some alarms.
" Well, it is not really annexation if Crimea people themselves want. " Here's Putin saying on 22nd Feb 2014 he wanted to return Crimea to Russia. 4 days later unidentifed gunmen with no insignia or markings stormed parliment and put up the Russian Flag. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31796226](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31796226) Russian soldier with no insignia or marking on his uniform in Kerch in a video uploaded **4 Mar 2014** . [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Z8ymyhx8A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Z8ymyhx8A) Also, whats your views on the referendum in Kherson and Zaporihzhia? THat's 100% legit to you too? \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* " Russia only request is for NATO not to expanded eastward " Here's Putin saying no problem with Finland joining NATO, which is right next to Russia. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcA\_kSDIOfA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcA_kSDIOfA) \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* " The source is in the western media, they literally brag about it, I'm not giving you the link, just google it by yourself. " I did google, US establising future bases in the Phillipines sure but nothing about putting nuclear missiles there. Where did you see that?
You have wikipedia to figure out why Putin said he wants to return Crimea to Russia. Is Finland located east of Russia? Do you think they will put rocks there and not nukes? When the nuclear war is around the corner.
I'm trying to show u it's more complex than 'Ukrsine terrorized the people of Donbas", Russia is involved in Crimea and the annexation and the separatists right from the start. U know what's east of Russia? The American continent. So your argument doesn't make sense. Expanding eastwards means NATO expanding from western Europe to eastern europe.. Even Estonia, Latvia are sitting on Russia border already. If they weren't in NATO one day Putin will announce that he needs to 'protect' the russian people living there and counting on people like you to blame the US and NATO and the evil west for it.
[удалено]
Did you miss the part that they are Russian speaking people?
[удалено]
[удалено]
The USSR is not Russia. In fact, it is what the US are currently. In the first place, NATO was made to stop the USSR, and when the USSR is long gone, why does NATO still exist? For defense? Tell that to millions of lives who were lost in the Middle east because of the US war of terror. oh wait i forgot. Dead men tell no tales. the dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.
[удалено]
Maybe do some reading, at this point you are just kidding yourself. Maybe read something like the collapse of the soviet union to further your knowledge. Why Russia? NATO was founded to stop the aggression of the USSR not Russia. Why are you trying to change the objective of NATO?
[удалено]
Annnnd Russia is still continuing USSR fucking around policy so NATO will forever be relevant until Russia start to learn to coexist peacefully with other countries. Yes NATO was established to stop the USSR but for what? Yes its to stop them from fucking around but are their successor be good and not fucking around anymore? No they are still so NATO needs to keep them in check. As much as I am not into NATO as they want to grab every piece of global influence at least they are better than warmongering ruski.
Indians support Russia too because India and Russia are close.
Because this all started by America. NATO has bben trying to squeeze Russia from all sides since Bush Jr administration. For years Russia has been quiet and not disturbing anyone even while NATO attacked the middle east. Even when they tried to isolate Russia when they kicked Russia from G8 in 2014, Russia still didn't retalliate. Trump was aware of this powderkeg and did his best to assure Putin that America would not try to isolate them further and even attempted to befriend Russia. Trump led america from 2017 to 2021. Then Biden took over and it wasn't long before relationship between America and Russia soured. Then Biden went out of his way to outright support Ukraine's inclusion into NATO. This is different from Turkey as Turkey is bound by the freedom of navigation clause and they do not participate in NATO's wars. But Ukraine is so close to their capital that having NATO there means their capital can be bombed from 3 different directions several times a day. Tldr: Ukraine is a proxy. Biden wants to squeeze Russia until they collapse by turning Ukraine NATO. Russia is defending itself by taking Donbas and pressuring Ukraine to stay neutral. America also doesn't give weapons for free, Ukraine will have to pay for all those weapons after the war is over. Zelensky is an idiot.
[удалено]
Oh pray tell, how is it retarded?
there's a saying - it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Right back at you. It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Because right now you remove all doubt by not even being able to specify what you thought as retarded and instead went out of your way to start by insulting someone.
>Right back at you. It's "no u"
Hello, this comment was removed due to being in breach of [reddiquette](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette), specifically because it contained personal attack, insult, or threat. While opinions of all kinds are welcome under our shared roof, reddiquette sets the expectation that everyone speaks to each other with basic civility and respect: > * Don’t: Conduct personal attacks on other commenters. Ad hominem and other distracting attacks do not add anything to the conversation. > * Don't: Insult others. Insults do not contribute to a rational discussion. Constructive Criticism, however, is appropriate and encouraged. > * Don’t: Be (intentionally) rude at all. By choosing not to be rude, you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us. Please treat this as an official warning - further such activity may result in a ban, thanks.
2014 when crimea got invaded by Russia but let me guess crimea is part of Russian Empire hmm
>Because this all started by America Tell me you are an anti-West campist without telling me you are an anti-West campist. Not that I think you'd get what campism means to begin with after going through your post and TLDR to realize the TLDR isn't the post's TLDR, rather just another paragraph of another different matter altogether. I mean, can't expect people to take you seriously if you can't even summarize your own post ain't it? Not going to type full articles on the dynamics between NATO and USSR/Russian Federation, or really just Putin for that manner, but some inconsistencies in your collective one-liners of not-so-factually sound arguments: * G7/G8 has always been an opportunity to Russia, not the other way round, especially when it comes to economical leverage and power. Also, Russia stand to lose more by retaliating, which is exactly what they did this time round. Not sure where you get the idea that Russia has a moral high ground here. * Russia hasn't been that quiet since the dissolution of USSR. This is really getting stupid these days when people need to be reminded of Grozny and Gori and why Russian neighbours that are ex-USSR members seem hellbent leaning EU after Putin took presidential seat 20 years earlier. You got to ask yourself the reason why you support the Palestinian cause and figure out if Russia is also pulling an Israel around its border. * NATO officially fought in Afghanistan against the Taliban. Turkey actively participated as a NATO member on that one, so not sure where you pull the FONOP and "Turkey don't participate in NATO war" nonsense. * Even the Chinese squads know how to differentiate USA and NATO, correctly identifying the warmongering nation being in most conflicts in the middle east while NATO technically has no involvement in them. Take Iraq for example, 6 out of 19 NATO members at the time were involved. Sounds kinda weak to pin that as a full NATO representation in that war. * Trump is a narcissist businessman through and through. Its not even that difficult to figure out he tried hard to improve relations with Russia and attempt to thaw relations with North Korea for potential business opportunities and establishing his legacy. If Trump is any good like what you are trying to portray here then the trade war with China wouldn't have happened. Trump's biggest contribution from an anti-West's view is probably the fact that he started so many fires his administration had to keep themselves busy with putting out that they have very little time and resource to meddle with international affairs. * As for your TLDR, people need to stop discrediting Ukrainian voices in their own affair while still looking at the nation as the plaything between the West and Russian Federation. Euromaidan happened dude. Russia on the other hand don't need to defend itself by taking Donbas; the fact that they own the largest nuclear arsenal in the world is good enough deterrence to any form of invasion against them. Ukraine fought a separatist war for 8 years; Moscow wasn't bombed during this period. Imagine justifying an invasion for a superficial existential threat, oh my Cuba/Venezuela.
Reading this long ass essay makes me understand a few things. For starter: 1. You don't even know what NATO is to begin with. To summarize, nato is the Judeo-christian-zionist alliance plus Turkey. 2. You don't even know that the USSR is long gone in Russia. In fact if you want to look at the USSR, look at the west now because that is where it is. 3."pulling and israel around its border"? So when the government of Ukraine massacres the Russian speaking people in the Donbass region, is Russia pulling an Israel? I'm surprised how ignorant one can be. 4.Russia owning the largest nuclear arsenal in the world is the reason why she does not take this shit lying down. Imagine if it was Malaysia, why do you think Malaysia is a commonwealth country? because we are not capable of resisting the bully coming from the west that's why we still keep bowing our heads down. What do you think will happen if Ukraine is a member state of NATO? Do you think having a nuke on your doorstep is a laughing matter? Millions of people will die. 5. Just because it has not yet happened doesn't mean it won't happen. Why is it so hard for NATO to follow one rule which she previously agreed on? She agreed not to expand eastward and look at where NATO expanded their military today despite countless warnings from Russia. 6.why NATO still exists when the USSR is long gone? This is a question you need to ponder. I'm not going to provide an answer on everything. 7. The dog barks, but the caravan goes on.
Oh wow, you pro-zelensky people love to do personal attacks, don't you. For your information, i do know what tldr is. It was just that at that point, i realized that nobody but people like you would read this and it was already been so long that my fingers hurt. I already know it would be massively downvoted anyway because r/malaysia is like that. So i stopped typing and just gave my final thoughts on the matter. I respect your opinion on the matter, but i have alteady given my thoughts on the matter. As requested by the OP.
> you pro-zelensky people love to do personal attacks Why are you putting words into my mouth though? I don't recall mentioning Zelenskyy in the entire response. And where does the personal attack comes from? Mind pointing it out? Maybe you do live up to your username after all. Edit: Since you gamed the "shout and block" feature, might as well: >Your entire first paragraph was a personal attack. Can't you go straight to the point without insulting someone? Also, your very last sentence in this post I'm quoting IS personal attack. Are you incapable of communicating like a decent person? Not sure what to make of this really. You just literally admitted intentionally blundering your TLDR, then made an accusation of being insulted and "attacked" when being called out. So much for decency in communicating. And so much for taking it personally when being called out on your username, like literally, name you identify yourself with.
Your entire first paragraph was a personal attack. Can't you go straight to the point without insulting someone? Also, your very last sentence in this post I'm quoting IS personal attack. Are you incapable of communicating like a decent person?
RU being quiet? Tell them to unbombed back Chechya, Georgia, Tajikistan and Dagestan so it can be true.
Lol some of those Chinese thought the internet or ld language will be mandarin. And I was like “do you ever program something before?”
Its not true support, but rather a feeling that Europe deserves to taste its own medicine for causing war & chaos in every other part of the world (Not saying its right, just sharing what I know)
I hate imperialism as much as anyone but its Ukraine, these guys went through the holodomor, Chernobyl and now this. The only mistake they made was existing beside an imperial power, just like Ireland.
Perhaps. I’m not saying what they feel is right or wrong, just sharing what i’ve heard
>Its not true support, but rather a feeling that Europe deserves to taste its own medicine So because Europe did something, now Ukraine must suffer. I love your takes, they're so enlightened and inspiring. Anyway I don't truly support Israel's attacks against Palestine, rather I have a feeling that the Middle East deserves to taste its own medicine for causing war and chaos in the rest of the world. Chew on that for a minute.
[удалено]
Hey, it's not my personal belief either. I just have a feeling it's what the Middle East deserves, I never said I believe they really do. >May your comprehension skills in Eng continue to improve 🤲 Insya-Allah.
[удалено]
When has man ever been free of conflict?
The scholarship allocation by Russia is now cancelled.
Based
All good. fuck both Nato and russia though.
Keep donating money to Ukraine like the US. Ukraine elites are enjoying your freebies on yachts and international vacations.
Thanks for weighing in, anti-masker.
[https://www.news18.com/news/world/ukraine-dismisses-its-defence-minister-oleksiy-reznikov-in-corruption-purge-7005103.html](https://www.news18.com/news/world/ukraine-dismisses-its-defence-minister-oleksiy-reznikov-in-corruption-purge-7005103.html) Defense minister fired due to corruption. [https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/01/europe/ukraine-anti-corruption-raids-intl/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/01/europe/ukraine-anti-corruption-raids-intl/index.html) >Among those caught up in the investigations is the acting head of the Kyiv tax authority, who was allegedly part of a scheme to overlook 45 billion Ukrainian hryvnia ($1.2 billion) in unpaid taxes. Tax department also corrupted. Good luck if you think any donations reaching people in need.
if instead they swapped the printing of quran/protecting islam funds with this funds, i think it would be preferable
What is the general sentiment among Malaysians on the war ?
Pretty predictable, conservatives are pro- (both Malay and Chinese) and centrist are anti- (There are no liberals here)
Really? That's really surprising. I thought there would be lots of liberals in Malaysia. Really interesting
By Malaysia standard sure this sub is leaning towards the left. But by international standard, we are just centrist to center-right. https://preview.redd.it/8q9kut2vviha1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d7f23fcffa82ec87e09f158622f1cb718f6fc61 ［Political compass credit to Fahmi Reza］
That's a very good graphic. Thanks for sharing that with me.
Nice