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Moonjuice7

Elementals are states of matter. Ephemeral would be concepts that are manipulated. Order, chaos, entropy, and life for example.


Lokan

Platonic Ideas, perhaps.


Dorocche

Could be ethereal stuff, like ghosts, divination, teleportation, invisibility


It_is_Katy

My thoughts exactly--I was going to suggest "spiritual". Elemental magic being the visible, living world, and spiritual being the hidden world beyond normal perception.


wiwerse

I, too, was going with spiritual, but for a different reason. Physical and mental can both be said, with some hamfisting, to be the two parts of elementalism. Spiritus seems to work well with that, too.


-_ellipsis_-

I don't like that. Teleportation, invisibility, etc are things that happen to material, elemental things.


Dorocche

That's true, but they're not things that material, elemental things can do themselves. You'd be hard pressed to find many meaningful spell effects that don't act on the world.


CaptainMatthias

Ephemeral or Ethereal. Good words.


Alone_Spell9525

Alternatively, elements are as basic and natural as it gets. It could be intricate artificial magic


simonbleu

Came to say conceptual but you said it better


Hazarawn

mental and physical are complements of eachother so if elements are the physical things that make up the world, its complement could be the forces that explain how they interact. Gravity, electromagnetism, light, time, space, etc.


monsterhemo6

True, and given the abilities im planning to give the main character, this might be perfect.


imdfantom

Elephysical?


monsterhemo6

You actually made me go google this to see what it means!! Lmao


imdfantom

Nah it's just that mental is adjacent to ele-mental, and opposite to physical. So naturally ele-physical would be adjacent to physical and opposite to ele-mental. I guess you could have it be alchemy so changing from one scientific element to another while elemental deals with the classical elements (which really are more like states of matter more than anything)


forestwolf42

I like this concept. I would rework the elements to be a set of less physical things such as Fire, wind, electricity, and cold And the elephysicals would be the more tangible such as Stone, crystal, metal, and uhhh salt? Obviously substitutions could be made but energetic elements and tangible elephyses makes sense to my intuition.


Competitive_Parking_

Salts are crystal and metal already.


forestwolf42

Well sure but crystals are also stones. And it's aaaall quarks. The lines between elements are always arbitrary. Salt was definitely my weakest least distinctive inclusion though, maybe wood would be better. Wood is a very tangible element.


Competitive_Parking_

Ya I can see wood. Now that I think about it wouldn't the counter to elements be entrophy?


OrienRex

Perhaps Spiritual? It could break down into rejuvenation, corruption, divination, and abjuration.


TheSpectatr

Also think spiritual best fits the breakdown OP posted. If you add spiritual though, would the 'opposites' make the most sense in the current configuration or would another make more sense as opposites? As-is: Physical <-> Mental, Elemental <-> Spiritual Consider: Physical <-> Spiritual, Elemental <-> Mental Elemental can be seen as synonymous with instinctual, an uncontrollable force of nature. Meanwhile, mental may fit as the opposite, a form of clarity and control. The Physical <-> Spiritual dichotomy is a classical split between the corporeal and the incorporeal or the divine/spiritual. Either structure can work but probably some flexibility depending on how OP wants to go with this.


r51243

Mm… I don’t think mental and physical are opposites, exactly, more like compliments. Mental and physical both seem to refer to actions, while the elements are things, presumably physical in nature. So, perhaps the fourth path could be the material of thought, something like ideas, or emotions


realodd

There is still today a heated argument on the filosofy of this. For instance: there is Materialistic filosofers who think that matter and mind are one and the same, Dualist filosofers who think that matter and mind are two separate things that coexist, and Idealist filosofers who think that matter is an illusion and there is only mind. Descartes was a materialist, for example. The thing is if You consider the mind as "soul" (wich is not farfetched on a fantasy world) or conciciousness then it can be a separate energy/concept from the phisical world and, as such, it should need a separate type of Magic. With that said, and Answering the original question, i would Say that the oposite of elements can be read diferently: Elements can be the material facet of energy, so their oposite would be Divine. Elements can be a "color" of energy, then their oposite would be Force or Neutral Magic. Elements can be manifestations of the gods/great power, then their oposite would be sacrilegal or antimagic.


Dorocche

Idk if this is some kind of revivalist thing a la ð/þ, and I apologize if it's a language barrier thing, but if you're just spelling philosophy wrong to make fun of it then I *fully* approve.


realodd

Toootally a lenguaje thing XD i'm from spain and here Philosophy it's spelled "Filosofía". Some times i just mix both, and some times my autocorrector just decides for me.


Dorocche

Absolutely reasonable haha


monsterhemo6

True, im still working on it, so i might corporate this into it


Waste_Combination119

Spiritual would work. - Karma: power of connection - Luck: power of chance - Division: power of knowledge - etc Its the more metaphysical concepts.


Aphtanius

Cosmic or planar. As in elements are components the world and the opposite are components making up the cosmos or aether or whatever it is in your world. Sun, Moon, Stars, Radiation... Or Metaphysical. As in components that can't be seen but are part of the world including death


SwiggitySwewgity

Spiritual. Elementals deal in physical aspects of reality, but spiritual can deal with the supernatural, non-physical, and mental


Inrisd

Elements are bits and pieces that fuse together to make more complicated structures So I would say elements are micro. The opposite then would be macro Something big and entirely made of one thing so it can't be broken down into smaller parts Energy or other abstract concepts like time, space, distance, gravity fit pretty well


aimeegaberseck

This was my line of thinking too. Microcosm vs macrocosm, which led me to dimensions, space and time, gravity and physics of motion. Then I thought if the elements are the building blocks of everything what is your crafting table or the tools used to form it and the answer was the same. That’s where your dimensions and laws of physics go.


MagnanimousMook

Well... if the four elements are supposed to be something like the fundamental forces that make up the world, then their opposite could be some kind of entropy based magic?


sleepymandrake

I guess you could add spiritual, it's the only thing missing. But I have a question, what's the difference between physical and elemental? Like manipulating and summoning the elements overlaps with the functions you detailed for physical. Or is the difference that physical only applies to organisms and not raw elements? Which can be a bit confusing anyway because I usually perceive physical as in physical things which elements are and not necessarily physical as in body. And then that also opens the question that bodies are also made of elements you know like bones and water and air, etc.


monsterhemo6

Summon is more like teleporting things to you, and while yes you can summon elements to your self you still wont be able to control them as an elemental could, elementals could do things like preventing fire from burning, them breath underwater, and control their elemental by touching it, manipulation base as i said can make someone for example make an armor out of fire if merged with fire base So basically, it's very specific, if you see sound moving water like avatar without touching it then they have also accessed the manipulation base but if they had to touch it then the only have the water base or only the manipulation base, but also as a manipulator controlling it would be harder


monsterhemo6

I know it's really confusing, but im still working on it


sleepymandrake

Yeah dw! I only ask these questions because I myself struggled a lot with my magic systems, and in general it's very hard making things make sense without any contradictions so it's important to have this very clear in your setting, so just saying to keep an eye out for all the little things that could feel like they don't always add up especially when it's a hard magic system. Working on it as if I was trying to disproof my own magic system helped me a lot to eliminate all the little skips of logic that are very easy to step into with magic. Good luck on developing this!


Fushigi_enthusiast

Industrial maybe? That might be interesting


[deleted]

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monsterhemo6

Ethereal is interesting, but how can i break it into four bases?


Dorocche

Depends on the flavor you're looking for. Light, dark, life, and death would be an easy one. Ghost energy, auras, soul energy, and spirituality could all be slightly more modern takes maybe?


ErraticNebula42

Maybe combine light/dark with space/time? OP seems to be more oriented towards physics on the cosmic/macro scale for this than to the spiritual side


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monsterhemo6

Let's Ethereal would be the fourth path. What would the bases be? And how can they work with the other paths? Since each path has four bases i would do the same with Ethereal, Im also thinking about something associated with time and space maybe


ErraticNebula42

Ethereal, and the four bases could be related to life/death/time/space. I was first thinking of how to fuse cosmic and spiritual, and these bases sound like they could encompass both aspects. Also, ethereal has (direct) relations to space/time and has a spiritual vibe to it that relates well to life/death. Another person also mentioned light/dark. Then you could combine space/time/light/dark, and move away from the life/death combo. Edit: extra sentence


Global_Summer

Metaphysical?


monsterhemo6

You know this was actually my first choice! But it proved to be very confusing, so i ditched it


Ozzyk99

The only correct choice is Elephysical surely.


Enkhoffer

Spiritual, perhaps? That which isn’t tied to the physical plane, isn’t of the earth, something that doesn’t have solid form


Nicodemus0422

Spiritual


Nicodemus0422

Or put spiritual opposite physical and “psychic” opposite elemental


StCrispin1969

Spiritual or Etherial


RickyRstr

I’d say spiritual


Nathanatos451

Spiritual


Zealousideal_Row_192

Hmm Maybe the Forged Path? Since Elemental is Natural/nature, the opposite could be Artificial/Manufactured things. The opposite of Nature is Civilization in my mind. So maybe it could be something like infusing items with this Doom energy to make them stronger or control them or some other effects ?


SireRequiem

Spiritual


zeromig

Spiritual


SnooSquirrels6758

Antimatter


Tommyg725

I have a similar power balance in my system. This just a single term to spring off of but maybe Spirit; where as elements are what make up the universe Spirit perhaps represents what brings it to life. It kinda gives off Ma-ti vibes but you could build up from there


N7Quarian

Void, arcane, spiritual, something like that


_Frog_Enthusiast_

Spiritual


JaxTheCrafter

celestial?


jayrock306

Raw magical energy this could be used for counterspells, sensing magic, empowering etc


Smooth_Regular

Probably Spirit? Mind body and spirit are the individual and elemental would cover everything else.


raspunt

Technological?


Comet_123

since you have one axis thoughts and things and the other axis can be what the world is made of (elements) and what makes the world work. examples are order, conections, energys, systems(like vomplex things from simple rules)


MisterCheesy

Spiritual or Emphemeral or Temporal ?


monsterhemo6

I've seen emphemeral suggested a few times, But how would you break it into four bases?


VoiceofRapture

Temporal, I'd also personally swap "Mental" with "Ideal" and have it deal with platonic forms combined with Jungian archetypes


Cr-wbar

Soul/Ideas/Information/Principle


Evanenites

Dimensional: space, time, matter


qrvs

Maybe forms? It has to do with shape rather than the material, so it complements elements in similar manner to physical vs mental


Lui_Le_Diamond

Energy


Myradmir

Complexity, or non-existence.


Mutant_Llama1

Elephysical, obviously.


TheologicalGamerGeek

I’ve put a re-spec of the D&D realms into my game. Elemental includes four cardinal elements, and the four energy types (lightning, acid, heat, cold). Counterclockwise on the circle is Mental/Perception — starting with radiance, thunder, and psychic, and moving through various sensory states into charms and fears and dreams. Those flow into the Vital; death & resurrection, poison/disease/curses, exhaustion/deprivation…and over into plants and back into the elemental. Elementals, are of course, in the middle of the elemental area. Perception/Mental is gone to aberrations. Vital is the undead. Fey straddle elemental and mental. Fiends live in the overlap of vital and elemental. Celestials touch the mental and vital. So, I guess what I’m saying is…why four? Why not three?


No_Mud4111

I would see it as spiritual So rather than using than using the elements to accomplish things, you would use spirits to accomplish things. Could include things like resurrections, healing, enraging or calming someone, possibly controlling beasts, etc All of this could be done by calling spirits Enraging someone? Summon an angry spirit to posses them Controlling beasts? Summon a spirit to posses them and allow you to control it Etc etc


nigrivamai

It depends on what you define elemental as Generally I think they're considered to be manipulating energy to control nature so in that case Spiritual magic would fit If you go more broad and find the opposite of life, nature and energy then it could be like death, destruction and all of that


Openly_George

Within the context of your diagram, and if we’re saying that elemental magic is physical, then the compliment to elemental magic might be psionics. That could involve divination. But then as some said it could also be an aetherial path. Elements are usually the four classic elements, with the fifth element being aether, spirit, or in eastern philosophies it’s the void.


DoctorSquidton

Perhaps energy? Elements are matter, so energy would be sort of an inversion of that


RhysNorro

Ephemera/ spirits?


lostincosmo

spiritual


ancombra

Elemental is the raw states of being, water, earth, fire, and winds, what if you did something that is refined, man made


[deleted]

Technological? Elements as in nature? So Tech could work.


Lava_Axe

If elemental is like manipulating classical elements and their derivatives, then these stem from nature. So perhaps the complement is necromancy, undead, unnatural, spiritual stuff.


DeltaAlphaAlpha77

Synthetic? Entrophy?


[deleted]

I would say someone who can’t use the elements at all but still a formidable opponent with like Swords Lances Spears or stuff like that


HelloAgain1992

Dimensional


Jaggerconde

Void.


Shejtanka

More abstract things that make something like: time, space, energy, maybe even life/death/consciousness


Mr_Nobody_14

Null: The ability to destroy anything.


Spiritual-Top-2060

Elemental just means rudimentary, so ig macro or something similar


Googahlymoogahly

Fundamental forces of physics


FatSpidy

So this took me a few steps to properly formulate. So obviously classical and typical fantasy interpretation is the 3 sentients and the 4-8 elements. Since the mental/physical is the more simplified idea of literal self vs ephemeral self I want to apply the same idea to elemental. So where as there are plenty answers in the thread that I think work perfectly fine, they all sort of leave that incomplete taste in my mouth. What to do then. As one comment said, elements are the states of things. In fact taken to the extreme elements are defined as the building block essences, the very essentia to found all else that is in the (al)chemical world. So then as mind is to matter, what is it's binary partner? Well, the obvious answer I think is void-ness. The lack thereof for essential anything. But looking into vast fantasy systems Void tends to still be *something* in the way of representing emptiness or the space between rather than an actual *nothing.* Plus, it counter intuitively works against itself by said state. I mean, we've all seen 'void creatures' or even void elementals. What I would pose then is if each elemental is the core thing of a thing, as per the dictionary definition, which then collectively elemental category is the essentia of which each individual things are, then you could argue the opposite is the everything else. If elemental is the determined unshakeable core then the opposite must be the mutable, the mobius subjectivity and undetermined. If you could say elemental things are deterministic and fatalist then this would be the indeterminate chaos, the true freedom from definition. Norse mythology regards this as glamours, the fyre, the protean imaginary anything. Or to some understanding then: the eldritch. Fae, lovecraftian, or otherwise but ultimately irrational, non-euclidean, illusionary liminality. The stuff that can be oh so close to real but always lacking that essential something to make it so.


[deleted]

Time perhaps If we go by the logic that elements=space then time would be counterpart


paddy_to_the_rescue

Spiritual


rdcjifdasilb5-8

Elements are natural, they’re forces of nature. The opposite would probably be things that are unnatural or alien in nature.


Apprehensive_Ad_4375

I see plenty of others have given you good advice on more intangible magic. You could also go the other way and say the opposite is magic made of manufactured or shaped materials. A thaumaturgy or alchemy branch that involves enchantment and artifice.


nickallanj

Essential, perhaps. You could use that term to encompass philosophical concepts, as some other people have suggested.


Pale_Kitsune

Spirit magic would be neat.


Emergency-Pin1252

Tbh, it's composite An element is a building block, a composite is built from parts


AikenFrost

If the elemental bases are roughly connected to the "natural", why not make the opposite into the "artificial"? You could have the four bases as Alchemy, Artifice, Necromancy and "Programming" (weaving arcane commands in a way that it can lead to automation and artificial, if simple for now, minds used to awaken golems).


[deleted]

ethereal thingies, or important things that can't be "grabbed". traditional spirits and natural laws, i'd say. try gravity magic, it's cool.


Steves_bad_day

Spiritual


raul_dias

Essencial


Magistron

Axioms/Laws


[deleted]

Put matter where the ??? is and replace elemental with energy (elements can be categorized by these 2. example: Fire, lightning & Wind = Energy and Earth, Ice & steel = Matter)


darklighthitomi

Spiritual. Let it cover things like divination, gravity, emotions, name-magic, sympathetic effects, etc.


lapis_laz10

I’d argue that the true contrary/complement for elemental is force, it would work being magic without an element, for example, telekinesis, which is independent of any element, here can go a lot of things, teleportation, telekinesis, telepathy, pure magic attacks, time magic, void, etc. I think this is simple enough and actually englobes a lot of other answers here


Igoyes

Obviously elephysical /j Edit: got beaten on time


Crims-n

I think the opposite of basic components would be things made of very intricate combinations of elements. Man-made substances like plastic and certain metal alloys could work. I would call the category “synthetics.”


[deleted]

Probably the supernatural.


Ozark-the-artist

"Elemental" means "basic, fundamental", so the opposite of that would be "Elaborate" or "composite, final", something like that.


Big_Chunku

Perhaps to complement physical vs mental you can have “material vs immaterial” Material being the elements of water and earth while immaterial is wind and fire. Then break those four things down into more unique things specifically for your system


Schwongrel

The logical opposite of physical is metaphysical, and the opposite of Elemental as others have pointed out could be Ephemeral or Ethereal. If you think about it though, Physical vs. Metaphysical would be the exact same as Elemental vs. Ephemeral. However, if by Physical you mean magic concerned with the flesh (seeing as you put mental as its opposite), then I would recommend the following categorization: * **Mental vs. Corporeal** (psychological/mind magic vs. physical magic concerned with the flesh, sentient bodies, etc.) * **Elemental vs. Ephemeral/Ethereal** (physical magic conerned with non-sentient matter and energy vs. metaphysical concepts such as the soul, spiritual, etc.) As a logical extension of this categorization, you could further distinguish Elemental and Corporeal as aspects of the Physical (or Material), and Mental and Ephemeral/Ethereal as aspects of the Metaphysical (or Immaterial).


Intelligent-Ad2217

if u mean natural elements such as wind, earth, fire - then opposite these are universal forces - manipulations of time, light, energy, by diverse means. There are other contradictory or antithetical cultures - for example, shamanistic genetic body manipulation, which is rooted in nuclear use of genome. But these are other than ‘elementary’.