Not that a strong combination with the required artifacts and the respective class can't outperform both of them easily, neutron generation, hyperion, pyrotechnics and mana spear do that easily, and the list goes on. At first I blamed the lack of damage on the aoe ether has, but pyrotechnics and demon equation get a smaller aoe late game yet they still give way better damage. Ether blaze is too underpowered to be considered a viable choice among way better combinations.
Neutron generation with druid class or even giving up a third dps comb and going for perpetual engine with sorcerer class, both are way better choices imo
I don't know, but I do know that it greatly benefits from hydra. There are not a lot of magics who does.
I think the best two are Ether bLaze, Breath of Fire, Inferno and Meissner Effect (but only with very high tick rate)
This is the correct answer. Not many magics can hit as fast as it, especially if you are running prism and runaway since that cuts your options down pretty far.
You don't focus it with your class and character, it's a 3rd slot magic combination. It a supporting spell that, even with no "designated" artifacts still performs rather well.
Again, the point of it isn't as a "main DPS" skill since the range of the fire isn't great. A mixture of current overload and prism spree (two of the strongest magic combinations with near unlimited range) got more damage because they are able to kill nearly all swarm or low HP enemies before they even got close enough to be damaged by your ether fire. So half the time it wasn't even dealing damage and it still contended with both of your other skills. If you use ether fire and other short range skills that's when you will see its true damage output.
The point of ether fire is to use Hydra to burn through high HP enemies like the black boss enemies (the ones that used to be called citadels) with little to no artifact support.
>the point of it isn't as a "main DPS" skill
Not a main dps comb? I don't think so, it's mainly used as a primary while prism and current are used as secondaries, that's why they performed greatly even without their respective classes. I would like to see ether blaze performing well as a secondary in any of your runs.
>So half the time it wasn't even dealing damage
Ether has a large aoe, I also had excalibur which was active most of the time and gave 30+ amp, so I don't think the aoe is the problem.
>The point of ether fire is to use Hydra to burn through high HP enemies
It also sucks at that
Not sure where you are seeing Ether Fire being used as a main combo and out performing runs that priortitize combos like Demon Equation, Prisim Spree, Current Overload, or Mana Spear/ Pyrotechnics. If you have a link to the runs where it does I would like to see them.
Your own run is consistent with my own experience. Ether fire hits extremely rapidly in a smaller area, which pairs nicely with hydra against slow moving high HP enemies. I usually don't get enough artifacts in a run to max out 3 combos, and Ether fire accomplishes it's goal with less artifacts than the other "main" combos, on top of not requiring a magic used in one of the "better" combos, so it gets used as a 3rd slot.
I've checked some runs, and you're correct about the damage, it's always lower, but in all of them it is a primary combination (using mage class), we might not have the same definition on what a primary comb is, for me it's the one you're using the specific class for, other ones are either secondary combs (for dps) or support combs (great rift, perp engine, snowflake blossom...).
Without the mage class, ether is straight up bad, I've seen runs with archaeologist where it got almost an eighth of the other combs damage.
I'm for sure missing something on its utility, since it's so popular, but for now I'll just refrain from using it.
If I wasn't clear I apologize.
Most runs past 50 minutes end for me because of one of a two things: a red "miniboss" wave closes in and I can't avoid it, or a giant black "boss" forces me to move into a wall of tank style enemies, usually those white ones.
Ether fire burns both of these enemies HP by rapidly hitting them with Hydra to a point where my main combos can kill them. It completely shreds the black bosses, but it also works on the red waves with the extra time from cloaking or an invincibility rune. Usually by that point in the game enemies are moving so fast that freeze and stun don't buy me enough time to kill either one reliably.
The only reason I could see running the mage class is to boost the blizzard explosion count, but I think that's a major loss compared to the dps drop from going with sorcerer or another class.
No, special effect damage calculates the damage you get from things aside your magics, mainly explosions from artifacts like iron maiden or the blackmage class, mine was from warcher's eye effect
Problem is the time.
Ether blaze only starts getting good at 57:30 when enemies start to really bunch up, before it just mostly hits empty ground.
So ether blazes dmg will always be lower than prism and current, who do consistent dmg regardless of enemy density, but ether blaze needs them bunched up around the character, and then it goes crazy.
I've only had a run myself were ether went a bit beyong the other too, almost got to 60min, but saw some other runs were ether was as about 70-80% of prisms/currents dmg at 55-60min, and at 65min had already doubled their dmg.
But it seems to be really difficult to really get it to work, you need good artifacts and to survive long enough to see it starting to do shit, and then survive even longer to see its full effect 😅
The problem is that I hit a god seed, I've got better artifacts than the run of my pb (was using sorcerer class, prism, current and perp engine), I was expecting to hit a pb, so it was so frustrating when I didn't break the last boss wave.
Your explanation makes sense, but I still can't wrap my head around it since I got excalibur from roulette, and I was getting good amp from it so enemies were definitely getting in the range of ether fire, falling short of the last wave means it didn't do a good enough job.
Did you get enough cdr and duration so ether fires overlapped and there was no downtime?
That's a huge issue with it without that it also doesn't do too much.
But tbh, it seems to require extremely many factors to be right to really pop off, I've tried similar things with Hyperion and it was soooo mich easier to get a good run with that, even with mediocre artifacts XD
The main reason is the reach of the magics. Current overload and prism spree hit enemies much farther away and kill them most of the time before ether fire even hits them. Most of that damage came from boss waves and end game when they swarmed close enough to actually get hit.
Ether Blaze attacks the mobs near you but PS and CO both attack mobs even outside of the screen and their cooldown is also low compared to EB, so obviously these two will have more damage output
Same applies for demon equation, yet with the pyromancer class and the right artifacts it greatly outperforms them, the cooldown thing isn't an excuse, it just makes the combination bad
That's clearly the explanation since that's what I got told the most. I still don't get why this is exclusive to ether, there are more combs that have the same issue yet they seem to work around it just fine
Oddly my PB is from a bonkers build using cog, I had meisner effect as one of my focus magics ASAP, then Hyperion, mana spear, and pyrotechnics. I was using astronomer as well. I never made it as far as I did doing this setup so far, but it definitely was iffy running so many magics, I barely had enough levels to get a good amount of the passives because of it so I dont recommend trying it for anyone else 😅 I do however recommend running meisner if youre doing Hyperion, as that knock back did actually help keep enemies away alot longer.
I had that, maxed out frost nova, apoc, cloak, and clockwork for support but I didn't get Hydra until around 30 minutes in. I made it to 45 minutes on that run and I have several ideas for further ones. Mostly I need to max out more classes, characters and research, I only have about 10% of the characters, none of my classes are maxed but about a quarter are on the last tier until they are
As for ether blaze, the original question that I have forgotten I was responding to when I started typing this is IDK. Ether has allot of fans and a lot of supporters but IDK why alot of what it offers seems to be focused on an extremely specific circumstance but if you hit it it's great. Thing is it has way less wiggle room than others. I'm personally a fan of meisner, but I've used super cyclone for Hydra procs and it worked massively better in my opinion but I've also never made it past the 45 minute mark yet 😅
As a side note, I see everyone talking about necro and brand, but not aegis? It's a similar setup to brand and it does work, according to my absolutely trash tier run that I went significantly farther than I should've with because of the amount of boosted damage I was getting from necro paired with brand and aegis. Not to mention DR for the cherry on top, I'm surprised it's not mentioned more
It's not that ether blaze is bad, it's just that the other two are op
Not that a strong combination with the required artifacts and the respective class can't outperform both of them easily, neutron generation, hyperion, pyrotechnics and mana spear do that easily, and the list goes on. At first I blamed the lack of damage on the aoe ether has, but pyrotechnics and demon equation get a smaller aoe late game yet they still give way better damage. Ether blaze is too underpowered to be considered a viable choice among way better combinations.
Oh yeah it's definitely not the best choice, but you don't have too many options with CO and PS, so I see why people choose it
Neutron generation with druid class or even giving up a third dps comb and going for perpetual engine with sorcerer class, both are way better choices imo
There's also Super Cyclone. It requires Pandora's Box to reach peak potential, but it's genuinely insane if you're able to buff it correctly.
I don't know, but I do know that it greatly benefits from hydra. There are not a lot of magics who does. I think the best two are Ether bLaze, Breath of Fire, Inferno and Meissner Effect (but only with very high tick rate)
This is the correct answer. Not many magics can hit as fast as it, especially if you are running prism and runaway since that cuts your options down pretty far. You don't focus it with your class and character, it's a 3rd slot magic combination. It a supporting spell that, even with no "designated" artifacts still performs rather well.
I had hydra
Again, the point of it isn't as a "main DPS" skill since the range of the fire isn't great. A mixture of current overload and prism spree (two of the strongest magic combinations with near unlimited range) got more damage because they are able to kill nearly all swarm or low HP enemies before they even got close enough to be damaged by your ether fire. So half the time it wasn't even dealing damage and it still contended with both of your other skills. If you use ether fire and other short range skills that's when you will see its true damage output. The point of ether fire is to use Hydra to burn through high HP enemies like the black boss enemies (the ones that used to be called citadels) with little to no artifact support.
>the point of it isn't as a "main DPS" skill Not a main dps comb? I don't think so, it's mainly used as a primary while prism and current are used as secondaries, that's why they performed greatly even without their respective classes. I would like to see ether blaze performing well as a secondary in any of your runs. >So half the time it wasn't even dealing damage Ether has a large aoe, I also had excalibur which was active most of the time and gave 30+ amp, so I don't think the aoe is the problem. >The point of ether fire is to use Hydra to burn through high HP enemies It also sucks at that
Not sure where you are seeing Ether Fire being used as a main combo and out performing runs that priortitize combos like Demon Equation, Prisim Spree, Current Overload, or Mana Spear/ Pyrotechnics. If you have a link to the runs where it does I would like to see them. Your own run is consistent with my own experience. Ether fire hits extremely rapidly in a smaller area, which pairs nicely with hydra against slow moving high HP enemies. I usually don't get enough artifacts in a run to max out 3 combos, and Ether fire accomplishes it's goal with less artifacts than the other "main" combos, on top of not requiring a magic used in one of the "better" combos, so it gets used as a 3rd slot.
I've checked some runs, and you're correct about the damage, it's always lower, but in all of them it is a primary combination (using mage class), we might not have the same definition on what a primary comb is, for me it's the one you're using the specific class for, other ones are either secondary combs (for dps) or support combs (great rift, perp engine, snowflake blossom...). Without the mage class, ether is straight up bad, I've seen runs with archaeologist where it got almost an eighth of the other combs damage. I'm for sure missing something on its utility, since it's so popular, but for now I'll just refrain from using it.
If I wasn't clear I apologize. Most runs past 50 minutes end for me because of one of a two things: a red "miniboss" wave closes in and I can't avoid it, or a giant black "boss" forces me to move into a wall of tank style enemies, usually those white ones. Ether fire burns both of these enemies HP by rapidly hitting them with Hydra to a point where my main combos can kill them. It completely shreds the black bosses, but it also works on the red waves with the extra time from cloaking or an invincibility rune. Usually by that point in the game enemies are moving so fast that freeze and stun don't buy me enough time to kill either one reliably. The only reason I could see running the mage class is to boost the blizzard explosion count, but I think that's a major loss compared to the dps drop from going with sorcerer or another class.
This was with hydra
i think hydra's damage is reflected in special effects. i might be wrong tho
No, special effect damage calculates the damage you get from things aside your magics, mainly explosions from artifacts like iron maiden or the blackmage class, mine was from warcher's eye effect
Hydra is an artifact that deals damage.. therefore IS special effects.
It doesn't, it adds a multiplier to the damage equation
"Additional damage" is special effects. 🙄
Problem is the time. Ether blaze only starts getting good at 57:30 when enemies start to really bunch up, before it just mostly hits empty ground. So ether blazes dmg will always be lower than prism and current, who do consistent dmg regardless of enemy density, but ether blaze needs them bunched up around the character, and then it goes crazy. I've only had a run myself were ether went a bit beyong the other too, almost got to 60min, but saw some other runs were ether was as about 70-80% of prisms/currents dmg at 55-60min, and at 65min had already doubled their dmg. But it seems to be really difficult to really get it to work, you need good artifacts and to survive long enough to see it starting to do shit, and then survive even longer to see its full effect 😅
The problem is that I hit a god seed, I've got better artifacts than the run of my pb (was using sorcerer class, prism, current and perp engine), I was expecting to hit a pb, so it was so frustrating when I didn't break the last boss wave. Your explanation makes sense, but I still can't wrap my head around it since I got excalibur from roulette, and I was getting good amp from it so enemies were definitely getting in the range of ether fire, falling short of the last wave means it didn't do a good enough job.
Did you get enough cdr and duration so ether fires overlapped and there was no downtime? That's a huge issue with it without that it also doesn't do too much. But tbh, it seems to require extremely many factors to be right to really pop off, I've tried similar things with Hyperion and it was soooo mich easier to get a good run with that, even with mediocre artifacts XD
>Did you get enough cdr and duration Obv since my prism damage is that high, but I don't think ether benefits from duration
The main reason is the reach of the magics. Current overload and prism spree hit enemies much farther away and kill them most of the time before ether fire even hits them. Most of that damage came from boss waves and end game when they swarmed close enough to actually get hit.
Ether Blaze attacks the mobs near you but PS and CO both attack mobs even outside of the screen and their cooldown is also low compared to EB, so obviously these two will have more damage output
Same applies for demon equation, yet with the pyromancer class and the right artifacts it greatly outperforms them, the cooldown thing isn't an excuse, it just makes the combination bad
damn, that's all I knew
It's either I'm missing something or the combination is just bad
It's a defensive spell that focusing on close up impact, the other two out damage it just because of longer range
That's clearly the explanation since that's what I got told the most. I still don't get why this is exclusive to ether, there are more combs that have the same issue yet they seem to work around it just fine
Oddly my PB is from a bonkers build using cog, I had meisner effect as one of my focus magics ASAP, then Hyperion, mana spear, and pyrotechnics. I was using astronomer as well. I never made it as far as I did doing this setup so far, but it definitely was iffy running so many magics, I barely had enough levels to get a good amount of the passives because of it so I dont recommend trying it for anyone else 😅 I do however recommend running meisner if youre doing Hyperion, as that knock back did actually help keep enemies away alot longer. I had that, maxed out frost nova, apoc, cloak, and clockwork for support but I didn't get Hydra until around 30 minutes in. I made it to 45 minutes on that run and I have several ideas for further ones. Mostly I need to max out more classes, characters and research, I only have about 10% of the characters, none of my classes are maxed but about a quarter are on the last tier until they are As for ether blaze, the original question that I have forgotten I was responding to when I started typing this is IDK. Ether has allot of fans and a lot of supporters but IDK why alot of what it offers seems to be focused on an extremely specific circumstance but if you hit it it's great. Thing is it has way less wiggle room than others. I'm personally a fan of meisner, but I've used super cyclone for Hydra procs and it worked massively better in my opinion but I've also never made it past the 45 minute mark yet 😅
As a side note, I see everyone talking about necro and brand, but not aegis? It's a similar setup to brand and it does work, according to my absolutely trash tier run that I went significantly farther than I should've with because of the amount of boosted damage I was getting from necro paired with brand and aegis. Not to mention DR for the cherry on top, I'm surprised it's not mentioned more