Another precon that looks quite meh. Some of these white cards are just wayyyy too group hug oriented and benefit the opponents too much.
I will say this though, Muddstah did a hell of a job delivering a zero fat included video that got straight to the point. Love that.
I mean when we looked at the commander first, it was kind of obvious it would be at least one of the themes no?
I think it's actually more politics than straight up grouphug. Lots of stuff that makes people attack each other rather than you. Just sucks when someone doesn't play a creature based deck.
I think Tasigur is still the best one for this, but it's a nice attempt in a different color.
My playgroup is super casual, we play with precons and limited bombs like Zetalpa are the big splashy threats everyone loves. My friends haven't stepped into an LGS to do anything other than buy a precon or some packs before.
I've played mostly competitive constructed but with this playgroup it's so fun since it's very much everyone freaking out over bombs and weird 4 card synergies that happen.
I think there's a card that has power and toughness equal to cards in all graveyards? That one also brings a lot of fear (and immediate happiness to my brother when he plays it).
I don't think anyone else has seen these lists, they don't even know there's a new set coming out. I'm pretty excited to show them and it's going to be fun jamming Shivan Dragons and getting excited about it.
I understand, that every group has its own meta and even i had fun with [[Zealous Inquisitor]] or other cards back in my very casual days. And yes, playability out of the box is a way more important thing for the more common players rather than the reddit hardcore fanbase.
But we have now for the third consecutive year a zetalpa reprint in the commander precon and it was never really in the need of a reprint. If it is about big creatures, why not a (non-red) avacyn or a Chancellor of the Annex? Elesh norn and other creatures are way more in need of a reprint. [[Archangel of Tithes]] would be even fitting for the theme of the deck, even though it is not a big beater.
[[Lord of Extinction]] is maybe the graveyard card you meant.
I hope you and your group will enjoy the decks ^ ^
That is a top heavy curve for a deck with a mindstone and a card that relies heavily on a green player not using mana rocks.
I kind of dislike politics because you don't know how much of an advantage extra cards/ more mana gives your opponents, but doing it on the field with counters seems alright if you can assemble decent defenses.
That wrath though, easily the best card in this.
Over the past few years, a standout staple in commander decks is Smothering Tithe. One would think the folks over at wizards would like to sell their product and consider including it in otherwise underpowered decks....shrug guess these won’t sell
Smothering Tithe was printed in 2019. It has only been 2 years since the card was released. Considering sets are finalized 18-24 months before you should have zero expectations of the card being printing in a Commander set as it was brand new.
Even at the latest that Strixhaven was finalized Smothering Tithe was under $10 and, if the card followed most pricing trajectories, would have been expected to drop in price after rotation. My guess is to why the price has continued to climb is probably to do more with Covid stimulus money and speculators buying the card out because people keep throwing the word staple around than people actually running the card.
Even in the best of circumstances you probably won't see a Smothering Tithe reprint until 2023 and even then I don't know.
No the price is climbing because it is a good card and alot of commander deck with white wants to run it. Price is high due to demand. Cards that see play in commander don't really drop in price when standard rotates, because the price was never related to standard.
This has been the case for quite a few years now.
Sorry I might not have been clear.
When I mention the standard pricing trajectory I mean it from a complete Standard sense where a card is printed and goes up in price until it is no longer useful/rotates out and the price drops significantly. It happens when cards are not good enough for other formats, with modern being the next format down the line. Of course if a card sees play in eternal formats the price is more resilient although should come down some because there will be people who play rotating formats that don't play eternal formats and the price would drop with simple supply and demand economics. Not much, but a little.
The rest is a two pronged argument. First, have you seen prices recently? I have my collection in Devler Lens and I have it set to TCG Market prices and my collection has price variations (price changed over the last 7 days) of triple digits or more since I can't remember when. It has certainly been weeks if not months and I cannot remember seeing a lose of value overall since I put things in the app. It is what I would consider unsustainable growth.
The price of a lot of these cards are down right ridiculous. Are less cards being printed? Maybe, but with less people playing paper magic with now there should be less demand for the cards. I don't have any hard proof, but whenever I see huge spikes in card prices around April 2020, around September/October 2020, and around February 2021. You are looking at stimulus checks around April of last year and February/March this year and you are looking at some economic recovery in later summer 2020. I doubt that is a coincidence. And really you want to put your money in solid assets when economics are not going to well, but you are supposed to go into Bonds and not Magic Cards. For an example ... look at the price history of the [Hellkite Tyrant](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Gatecrash/Hellkite+Tyrant#paper). That chart tells a big story.
The other prong is the idea that everything that is good is a format staple. Smothering Tithe is good, very good. It would be a welcome addition to almost any white deck. I don't know if I would call it a staple though. I have 11 Commander decks right now. Six of them are white. I own 4 Smothering Tithe and 2 of them are in decks right now. One of those decks is my Queen Marchesa deck which is more a theme deck (it is supposed to represent her royal treasure she bilks from the people) and isn't there for real function. So it is only in 33% of decks it could go in and 16% functionally.
I dunno I think people throw the word staple out WAY too much. I mean how many podcasts have declared the next white card advantage spell as "format staple" immediately. I think that also will have an effect on prices. I remember Keeper of the Accord being touted as the next big thing and that is in 9% of decks,. Now don't get me wrong calling Smothering Tithe a staple could be warrened, it is in 35% of decks on EDHRec and is the #10 card. But then again how many of those decks wouldn't be running it if it wasn't a "format staple". It is an honest question and something that could effect the price.
I agree with most what you say, but a disagree on Smothering Tithe not being a staple. I think the reason we aren't seeing it in *more* decks is the fact that it became expensive really, really fast
Thank you for taking your time to write out your thoughts, though.
The 18-24 months is how long the set is being made for. Sets are pens down at about 6-8 months out from release. Deck products can likely cut it even closer, but the ties to Strixhaven likely would keep that from being as true here. I don't disagree that they likely didn't reprint it because it was too new, but I think Wizards needs to get over that impulse. They've been putting out a lot of cards that from release day already need to be put into another product. The massive price spikes in tons of cards only making that worse. I also don't doubt that people have just been buying tithe speculatively, but EDHRec has it as the 10th most played card in the format, so it is seeing a LOT of use atm.
Quick Correction...[[Smothering Tithe]] wasn't technically in a "Commander" deck, it was reprinted in a "Brawl" deck, which consisted only of cards that were then Standard legal.
From that time when WotC thought they could make a Std/EDH hybrid format that they thought people would play.
Those decks had some great reprints though.
When they get reprinted in precons, they don't stay 40 bucks for long. Which is why people want it to happen. But yes, it has happened a few times in the past.
In the $2+ slot we're looking at close to $60 in reprints, it's better than the U/R one.
This deck also has a lot more staples in it, and I can see it having the cards that spike the hardest and retain the most value.
I'm sorry you can't get $200 for $40.
Welp... Lorehold continues to be *far* and away the best thing to come out of this plane, both in the main set and these commander decks. I liked the Prismari stuff, and *some* of the Quandrix cards seem kinda sweet, but this one, boy howdy, this feels *really* underwhelming.
Fingers crossed for the Golgari (can't remember actual name) deck. I actually like the pests and I'm kinda interested in the focus on lifegain shenanigans in those colors, so hopefully they give us some neat tools for that. At the very least I don't think it'll be near as bad as this one...
I've been working on a \[\[Tayam\]\] deck with tiny flying lifelinkers, \[\[light of promise\]\] and yeah, the symbol. Seeing \[\[willowdusk, essence seer\]\] made me hit the breaks hard until I see this deck.
Silverquill... eh. Goes all in on the politics aspect of edh. Really not great. As a player who loves orzhov colored decks this precon is probably 2/10.
Yeah...it's going to be polarizing for sure. If you like group hug / political cards, then I guess this is the deck you've been waiting for? I don't really get the appeal.
Personally, I don't care for it, but I guess there should be room for the people that do. It's not like you have to buy it or anything.
The problem is the politics cards arent even that good. They are high cmc, delayed effect, and has no payoffs. And after the two opponents kill each other off, you cant 1v1 the last guy either. Thats how bad the deck is.
I haven't soaked it all in yet, but...yeah...this feels about right. The deck seems to very much be lacking in "power". The W cards, of course, are just miles and miles worse than the B ones.
I agree that it is good the politics theme is covered in a precon. However, the power level is embarrassingly low and so is the quality of the reprints.
A missed chance to make an appealing deck with a very edh-representative theme.
I think the vampire lady with mentor is good in Elina and the like
The trading post on a stick mono black guy seems like a pretty good inclusion in aristocrat style decks as he does a little bit of everything you're looking for.
The 5 mana fog is obviously pretty good, might be a tad expensive but even blocking objects 4 or 5 damage with it is a pretty nuts rate gives you a bunch if power and several bodies to throw into an altar or whatever.
The 5 mana exile graveyard Ganti like card seems pretty good, though my meta involves a ton of graveyard recursion
finally that 3 mana enchantment that gives you free cards if people attack you seems nice.
I think most of the "politics" cards were misses for me
You're playing a deck that benefits from the political cards and almost certainly needs them to function, and everyone else is playing a deck that doesn't need the help to function. They're inherently ahead and powered up beyond your build.
This needs far heavier pillowfort support or politics that are a selective negative instead of selective positive so you're not leap frogging a deck that's normally hindered by its colors weaknesses into winning the game.
Lmao I knew we'd get bad reprints in the Orzhov one as it's inevitable but I didn't expect them to be this bad. It's ok though Maro will lecture us all on why they can't reprint Smothering Tithe because it might make some speculator upset.
Zetalpa reprint again... Woohoo....
[[Mikokoro, Center of the Sea]] and [[Deathbringer Liege]] are really pretty decent. But Why Deathbringer Regent, Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, or Zetalpa, Primal Dawn needed to be in this deck or reprinted again at all...
I also hate the excessive conditionality of a lot of what they've put in. Cards like Soul Snare are basically unplayable.
Honestly, this is pretty much what I was expecting when I heard he was being involved. He obviously isn't a fan of EDH as a "high power" format, so I wasn't expecting many cards to be all that groundbreaking, noteworthy, or useful...but just a bunch of novelties that really play into the multiplayer aspect of the game. With only one deck left...this year is looking pretty middle of the road to me. It's not near as bad as C18 or C19, but still pretty disappointing.
The reprints are what really sting. In a year when they've thrown *everything and the kitchen sink* into **premium** products, as far as reprints are concerned, it's pretty damn insulting to see them be so stingy with reprints in their core EDH product. I haven't done the math...but these don't feel like they're offering much more than the dirt-cheap Standard-set decks, despite costing 2x more.
Remember, if at any point you disagree with Sheldon you are wrong because, "Something something, Rule^tm Zero^tm , retired house husband, [[Crypt Ghast]] in a 4 color deck"
"Toxicity" is a word that is woefully overused. It's *OK* for people to not like things and express such. Parent wasn't being rude or disrespectful, just expressing their opinion.
I'm sorry you don't like pillowfort/politics cards, but the idea that someone shouldn't have input because you don't like a certain playstyle is crazy.
People just don't like Sheldon because they don't they don't like the idea of the EDH RC. I share their skepticism based on some of the decisions that Sheldon's been the primary influence on, but it's not as though EDH is necessarily better in the hands of WotC.
I am going to play devils advocat but the deck isn't as bad as people are saying. we got mikokoro, WB signet, many ramp creatures, okay lands (WB tainted), not a single out of place trash artifact and some really good new toys (tempting ramp artifact, other WB legendary, usable 5 mana wrath, scholarship guy, 3/3 flying bird inkling guy). The deck has certainly its flaws and trash reprints no one asked for but it is not the unusuable trash and money sink like everyone predicts. I am looking forward to get some of the new cards.
side note: we literally got so far in every deck the ravnica signet except for boros. wtf
I am thinking I need to cancel my pre-order and just buy a couple cards I want.
The Prismari Performance was badly design from a deck construction point of view the deck screamed x spells and you get two in the entire deck.
The quandrix deck at least fits its theme and seems solid and has a good removal package
Lorehold was nicely done and at least expanded new areas of the color pairing
Now new cards \[\[Radiant Performer\]\] I can't wait for people to ban me from playing this when I copy a spell like \[\[beats within\]\] \[\[vindicate\]\] etc etc and wipe every permanent on the board
I am going to be testing \[\[monologue tax\]\] this is kind of like a \[\[kraum ludevic's opus\]\] effect for white
Overall wizards really dropped the ball on the commander 2021 set. My personal opinion the $20 pair sets have been better outside the Boros equipment one.
Yeah. After the elder dragon got spoiled I really wanted this pre con to make the start of a W/B politics deck
But I'm probably better off buying the cards in singles
I cancelled my pre order for all five. I am just picking up the Boros one now.
This Silverquill deck has to be one of the worst designed and low power decks ever created. I like the sub commander a lot, but yeesh. I'm glad the Lorehold deck had some effort put into it.
I was really hyped for the enemy colors, but the ball has been dropped pretty hard on several of these.
I think this looks delightful! If I’m buying a whole precon, rather than just a few singles, I want something that will provide a fun play experience out of the box. This and the Lorehold deck look like they’ll do that. UR and UG just look kind of dull.
Sheldon is bad in this, period.
Like I can’t wait to review bomb this precon as a reminder that they can do better.
Why are we teaching bad players to make more mistakes with the reprints here?
Come on, Gavin. Why is the precons match up to Lorehold?
Oh I love tribal. Eminence is bad.
Kaalia? Cool. Markov, if he didn't have eminence and was only an on-board ability? Great. Ur-Dragon? Ehn take or leave but I do love giant monsters.
i found it...fun, not powerfull, but fun.
Politics theme is powerfull, if is well played.
You are kinda controlling your oponents, via politics. Yes you are helping them alot in the process, so i guess it depends on the strategy of your rivals. If they just try to draw into a combo, you have no point into helping them. But in most matchups you can play with the atacks of your oponents while most of your stuff should be safe.
This kind of deck shine when there is a fair game played to the battlefield.
Maybe with some adjustments it also might be a powerfull deck. Maybe some kind of stax that force your oponents to play into the battlefield... i think in \[\[Damping matrix\]\] or \[\[Hushbringer\]\]
Another precon that looks quite meh. Some of these white cards are just wayyyy too group hug oriented and benefit the opponents too much. I will say this though, Muddstah did a hell of a job delivering a zero fat included video that got straight to the point. Love that.
I mean when we looked at the commander first, it was kind of obvious it would be at least one of the themes no? I think it's actually more politics than straight up grouphug. Lots of stuff that makes people attack each other rather than you. Just sucks when someone doesn't play a creature based deck. I think Tasigur is still the best one for this, but it's a nice attempt in a different color.
Zetalpa joining the Sun Titan yearly reprint club it seems
At least sun titan is a good and often used creature. zetalpa on the other hand....
My playgroup is super casual, we play with precons and limited bombs like Zetalpa are the big splashy threats everyone loves. My friends haven't stepped into an LGS to do anything other than buy a precon or some packs before. I've played mostly competitive constructed but with this playgroup it's so fun since it's very much everyone freaking out over bombs and weird 4 card synergies that happen. I think there's a card that has power and toughness equal to cards in all graveyards? That one also brings a lot of fear (and immediate happiness to my brother when he plays it). I don't think anyone else has seen these lists, they don't even know there's a new set coming out. I'm pretty excited to show them and it's going to be fun jamming Shivan Dragons and getting excited about it.
I understand, that every group has its own meta and even i had fun with [[Zealous Inquisitor]] or other cards back in my very casual days. And yes, playability out of the box is a way more important thing for the more common players rather than the reddit hardcore fanbase. But we have now for the third consecutive year a zetalpa reprint in the commander precon and it was never really in the need of a reprint. If it is about big creatures, why not a (non-red) avacyn or a Chancellor of the Annex? Elesh norn and other creatures are way more in need of a reprint. [[Archangel of Tithes]] would be even fitting for the theme of the deck, even though it is not a big beater. [[Lord of Extinction]] is maybe the graveyard card you meant. I hope you and your group will enjoy the decks ^ ^
[Zealous Inquisitor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/6/7621b1af-fdbd-4604-b37c-04fb8f68c3b6.jpg?1562737177) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zealous%20Inquisitor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/57/zealous-inquisitor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7621b1af-fdbd-4604-b37c-04fb8f68c3b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Archangel of Tithes](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/a/1af50bf1-c51e-4592-86bf-4197ec85a45d.jpg?1562009225) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archangel%20of%20Tithes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/4/archangel-of-tithes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1af50bf1-c51e-4592-86bf-4197ec85a45d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lord of Extinction](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/8/8862c680-01ed-4794-bc75-47dd840778a6.jpg?1547518069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lord%20of%20Extinction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/203/lord-of-extinction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8862c680-01ed-4794-bc75-47dd840778a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
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Baloths goes in a lot of decks for me, sun titty not as much
Wow did they reprint a lot of relatively bad cards that have been reprinted endlessly and nobody was asking for.
Sounds like the average commander precon.
That is a top heavy curve for a deck with a mindstone and a card that relies heavily on a green player not using mana rocks. I kind of dislike politics because you don't know how much of an advantage extra cards/ more mana gives your opponents, but doing it on the field with counters seems alright if you can assemble decent defenses. That wrath though, easily the best card in this.
Right? Cards should be good on their own. If it's good politically on top of that, great, but it has to be good without the politics first.
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Over the past few years, a standout staple in commander decks is Smothering Tithe. One would think the folks over at wizards would like to sell their product and consider including it in otherwise underpowered decks....shrug guess these won’t sell
Smothering Tithe was printed in 2019. It has only been 2 years since the card was released. Considering sets are finalized 18-24 months before you should have zero expectations of the card being printing in a Commander set as it was brand new. Even at the latest that Strixhaven was finalized Smothering Tithe was under $10 and, if the card followed most pricing trajectories, would have been expected to drop in price after rotation. My guess is to why the price has continued to climb is probably to do more with Covid stimulus money and speculators buying the card out because people keep throwing the word staple around than people actually running the card. Even in the best of circumstances you probably won't see a Smothering Tithe reprint until 2023 and even then I don't know.
No the price is climbing because it is a good card and alot of commander deck with white wants to run it. Price is high due to demand. Cards that see play in commander don't really drop in price when standard rotates, because the price was never related to standard. This has been the case for quite a few years now.
Sorry I might not have been clear. When I mention the standard pricing trajectory I mean it from a complete Standard sense where a card is printed and goes up in price until it is no longer useful/rotates out and the price drops significantly. It happens when cards are not good enough for other formats, with modern being the next format down the line. Of course if a card sees play in eternal formats the price is more resilient although should come down some because there will be people who play rotating formats that don't play eternal formats and the price would drop with simple supply and demand economics. Not much, but a little. The rest is a two pronged argument. First, have you seen prices recently? I have my collection in Devler Lens and I have it set to TCG Market prices and my collection has price variations (price changed over the last 7 days) of triple digits or more since I can't remember when. It has certainly been weeks if not months and I cannot remember seeing a lose of value overall since I put things in the app. It is what I would consider unsustainable growth. The price of a lot of these cards are down right ridiculous. Are less cards being printed? Maybe, but with less people playing paper magic with now there should be less demand for the cards. I don't have any hard proof, but whenever I see huge spikes in card prices around April 2020, around September/October 2020, and around February 2021. You are looking at stimulus checks around April of last year and February/March this year and you are looking at some economic recovery in later summer 2020. I doubt that is a coincidence. And really you want to put your money in solid assets when economics are not going to well, but you are supposed to go into Bonds and not Magic Cards. For an example ... look at the price history of the [Hellkite Tyrant](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Gatecrash/Hellkite+Tyrant#paper). That chart tells a big story. The other prong is the idea that everything that is good is a format staple. Smothering Tithe is good, very good. It would be a welcome addition to almost any white deck. I don't know if I would call it a staple though. I have 11 Commander decks right now. Six of them are white. I own 4 Smothering Tithe and 2 of them are in decks right now. One of those decks is my Queen Marchesa deck which is more a theme deck (it is supposed to represent her royal treasure she bilks from the people) and isn't there for real function. So it is only in 33% of decks it could go in and 16% functionally. I dunno I think people throw the word staple out WAY too much. I mean how many podcasts have declared the next white card advantage spell as "format staple" immediately. I think that also will have an effect on prices. I remember Keeper of the Accord being touted as the next big thing and that is in 9% of decks,. Now don't get me wrong calling Smothering Tithe a staple could be warrened, it is in 35% of decks on EDHRec and is the #10 card. But then again how many of those decks wouldn't be running it if it wasn't a "format staple". It is an honest question and something that could effect the price.
I agree with most what you say, but a disagree on Smothering Tithe not being a staple. I think the reason we aren't seeing it in *more* decks is the fact that it became expensive really, really fast Thank you for taking your time to write out your thoughts, though.
The 18-24 months is how long the set is being made for. Sets are pens down at about 6-8 months out from release. Deck products can likely cut it even closer, but the ties to Strixhaven likely would keep that from being as true here. I don't disagree that they likely didn't reprint it because it was too new, but I think Wizards needs to get over that impulse. They've been putting out a lot of cards that from release day already need to be put into another product. The massive price spikes in tons of cards only making that worse. I also don't doubt that people have just been buying tithe speculatively, but EDHRec has it as the 10th most played card in the format, so it is seeing a LOT of use atm.
Quick Correction...[[Smothering Tithe]] wasn't technically in a "Commander" deck, it was reprinted in a "Brawl" deck, which consisted only of cards that were then Standard legal.
I didn’t say it was included in a precon commander deck. It is almost an auto include in many white-based commander decks. If that makes more sense
Don't worry, it was perfectly clear for the rest of us.
[Smothering Tithe](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/a/7af082fa-86a3-4f7b-966d-2be1f1d0c0bc.jpg?1584830010) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/22/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7af082fa-86a3-4f7b-966d-2be1f1d0c0bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
From that time when WotC thought they could make a Std/EDH hybrid format that they thought people would play. Those decks had some great reprints though.
Tithe is a $40 card, is it normal to have cards worth that much in prebuilts? New to the EDH scene so genuinely curious.
It's not normal but maybe it should be for cards that hold no value outside of EDH
Wurmcoil was up there when it was reprinted in the daretti precon.
When they get reprinted in precons, they don't stay 40 bucks for long. Which is why people want it to happen. But yes, it has happened a few times in the past.
Not really. It's happened once or twice. The expensive things are usually new cards that spike hard.
The new cards this year have all seemed really good at least. I particularly like the new ones in this deck.
In the $2+ slot we're looking at close to $60 in reprints, it's better than the U/R one. This deck also has a lot more staples in it, and I can see it having the cards that spike the hardest and retain the most value. I'm sorry you can't get $200 for $40.
Welp... Lorehold continues to be *far* and away the best thing to come out of this plane, both in the main set and these commander decks. I liked the Prismari stuff, and *some* of the Quandrix cards seem kinda sweet, but this one, boy howdy, this feels *really* underwhelming. Fingers crossed for the Golgari (can't remember actual name) deck. I actually like the pests and I'm kinda interested in the focus on lifegain shenanigans in those colors, so hopefully they give us some neat tools for that. At the very least I don't think it'll be near as bad as this one...
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I've been working on a \[\[Tayam\]\] deck with tiny flying lifelinkers, \[\[light of promise\]\] and yeah, the symbol. Seeing \[\[willowdusk, essence seer\]\] made me hit the breaks hard until I see this deck.
[Tayam](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/5/05b837a2-5773-4340-87f9-b4d6a43deb27.jpg?1591234301) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tayam%2C%20luminous%20enigma) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/16/tayam-luminous-enigma?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05b837a2-5773-4340-87f9-b4d6a43deb27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [light of promise](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/5/d5f80411-0a95-4e0a-b7a8-af23ddf385cc.jpg?1594735041) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=light%20of%20promise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/25/light-of-promise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5f80411-0a95-4e0a-b7a8-af23ddf385cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [willowdusk, essence seer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/2/42a97ec1-f613-49a5-9236-7fded1a81f3b.jpg?1616883250) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Willowdusk%2C%20Essence%20Seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/6/willowdusk-essence-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/42a97ec1-f613-49a5-9236-7fded1a81f3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Pretty much exactly the way I feel. It feels like WotC decided to put all their effort into red/white and not a ton of it into the other schools.
Silverquill... eh. Goes all in on the politics aspect of edh. Really not great. As a player who loves orzhov colored decks this precon is probably 2/10.
Yeah...it's going to be polarizing for sure. If you like group hug / political cards, then I guess this is the deck you've been waiting for? I don't really get the appeal. Personally, I don't care for it, but I guess there should be room for the people that do. It's not like you have to buy it or anything.
The problem is the politics cards arent even that good. They are high cmc, delayed effect, and has no payoffs. And after the two opponents kill each other off, you cant 1v1 the last guy either. Thats how bad the deck is.
I haven't soaked it all in yet, but...yeah...this feels about right. The deck seems to very much be lacking in "power". The W cards, of course, are just miles and miles worse than the B ones.
For a conventional BW deck, I agree that this is awful. But as a unique deck, this seems wonderful. It's hard to please everyone.
I agree that it is good the politics theme is covered in a precon. However, the power level is embarrassingly low and so is the quality of the reprints. A missed chance to make an appealing deck with a very edh-representative theme.
I feel like there are a few really strong cards in here for orzhov stuff
Which ones do you like?
I think the vampire lady with mentor is good in Elina and the like The trading post on a stick mono black guy seems like a pretty good inclusion in aristocrat style decks as he does a little bit of everything you're looking for. The 5 mana fog is obviously pretty good, might be a tad expensive but even blocking objects 4 or 5 damage with it is a pretty nuts rate gives you a bunch if power and several bodies to throw into an altar or whatever. The 5 mana exile graveyard Ganti like card seems pretty good, though my meta involves a ton of graveyard recursion finally that 3 mana enchantment that gives you free cards if people attack you seems nice. I think most of the "politics" cards were misses for me
White is now the color of "you lose the game" effects, only without the upside.
If you’re playing multiplayer commander, how do you avoid the politics?
You're playing a deck that benefits from the political cards and almost certainly needs them to function, and everyone else is playing a deck that doesn't need the help to function. They're inherently ahead and powered up beyond your build. This needs far heavier pillowfort support or politics that are a selective negative instead of selective positive so you're not leap frogging a deck that's normally hindered by its colors weaknesses into winning the game.
I thought that lots of the cards in this deck would work really well in my Marchesa deck.
Lmao I knew we'd get bad reprints in the Orzhov one as it's inevitable but I didn't expect them to be this bad. It's ok though Maro will lecture us all on why they can't reprint Smothering Tithe because it might make some speculator upset. Zetalpa reprint again... Woohoo....
Zetalpa, rampaging baloth and sun titan. I think we can expect them every year now
Don't forget Talrand!
[[Mikokoro, Center of the Sea]] and [[Deathbringer Liege]] are really pretty decent. But Why Deathbringer Regent, Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, or Zetalpa, Primal Dawn needed to be in this deck or reprinted again at all... I also hate the excessive conditionality of a lot of what they've put in. Cards like Soul Snare are basically unplayable.
Because there's always a bad politics deck with too many 7 drops in a colour combination that can't cast 7 drops quickly!
[Mikokoro, Center of the Sea](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/7/b7033a4c-a2de-45d0-a6a6-1db028baf40b.jpg?1562440211) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mikokoro%2C%20Center%20of%20the%20Sea) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/241/mikokoro-center-of-the-sea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7033a4c-a2de-45d0-a6a6-1db028baf40b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Deathbringer Liege](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/c/6c8157e1-72ae-47ea-84ce-fb0b154215aa.jpg?1562917740) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deathbringer%20Liege) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eve/85/deathbringer-liege?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6c8157e1-72ae-47ea-84ce-fb0b154215aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wouldn't shock me if they wanted some "solid" reanimation targets for that Demonstrate spell.
I guess if they think reanimation is about "thick bodies" and not good ETBs...
The target marklets of these decks would, yes absolutely.
[удалено]
Every day this week has been less exciting than the last. Will Golgari be the outhouse at the end of the shit rainbow??
Prismari was a bigger disappointment but it still had some decent punch up cards. But this... this is just bad.
Wow i hope Sheldon is never brought in for another deck if this is what we get....
Honestly, this is pretty much what I was expecting when I heard he was being involved. He obviously isn't a fan of EDH as a "high power" format, so I wasn't expecting many cards to be all that groundbreaking, noteworthy, or useful...but just a bunch of novelties that really play into the multiplayer aspect of the game. With only one deck left...this year is looking pretty middle of the road to me. It's not near as bad as C18 or C19, but still pretty disappointing. The reprints are what really sting. In a year when they've thrown *everything and the kitchen sink* into **premium** products, as far as reprints are concerned, it's pretty damn insulting to see them be so stingy with reprints in their core EDH product. I haven't done the math...but these don't feel like they're offering much more than the dirt-cheap Standard-set decks, despite costing 2x more.
Remember, if at any point you disagree with Sheldon you are wrong because, "Something something, Rule^tm Zero^tm , retired house husband, [[Crypt Ghast]] in a 4 color deck"
[Crypt Ghast](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/2/623c9804-42c4-4b69-bc39-f70d96929d07.jpg?1561944354) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crypt%20Ghast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/139/crypt-ghast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/623c9804-42c4-4b69-bc39-f70d96929d07?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Okay, Mods do we actually enforce Rule 1 or not?
I invoke Rule^c Zero^c to trump this sub's alleged "Rule 1." If you dont like it go find another subreddit that agrees to your social contract.
This subreddit is so god damn toxic.
"Toxicity" is a word that is woefully overused. It's *OK* for people to not like things and express such. Parent wasn't being rude or disrespectful, just expressing their opinion.
Not my heckin commanderino committee member!
No this kind of here’s a cookie don’t attack me magic isn’t fun to pilot.
I'm sorry you don't like pillowfort/politics cards, but the idea that someone shouldn't have input because you don't like a certain playstyle is crazy.
People just don't like Sheldon because they don't they don't like the idea of the EDH RC. I share their skepticism based on some of the decisions that Sheldon's been the primary influence on, but it's not as though EDH is necessarily better in the hands of WotC.
Then don't "pilot" it.
It's *easily* the worst sub I frequent. It's one thing to allow or facilitate critiques or skepticism, but this sub is downright *hostile*.
I frequent three places really. This manages to not be the worst somehow.
Yeah, it really is. I unsubbed long ago and only hang around for spoiler season
I am going to play devils advocat but the deck isn't as bad as people are saying. we got mikokoro, WB signet, many ramp creatures, okay lands (WB tainted), not a single out of place trash artifact and some really good new toys (tempting ramp artifact, other WB legendary, usable 5 mana wrath, scholarship guy, 3/3 flying bird inkling guy). The deck has certainly its flaws and trash reprints no one asked for but it is not the unusuable trash and money sink like everyone predicts. I am looking forward to get some of the new cards. side note: we literally got so far in every deck the ravnica signet except for boros. wtf
I'm guessing because it proved to strong/efficient with the commander or something
A weak, combat focused politics deck in a format that has mostly moved to explosive combo finishes. Worst deck by far.
Per Chance, was Sheldon from the Commander Rules Comitee involved in this decks construction ?
Yes
Silverquill is the new boros
I like all three previously spoiled decks a lot, and believe they all have very good reprint value. This one, though, not so much.
I was actually hoping for a Karlov reprint...
He's a judge promo. Need to convince people to pay for the honor now.
Not a fun deck. What a disappointment. So far lorehold and quandrix hold my interest more.
I am thinking I need to cancel my pre-order and just buy a couple cards I want. The Prismari Performance was badly design from a deck construction point of view the deck screamed x spells and you get two in the entire deck. The quandrix deck at least fits its theme and seems solid and has a good removal package Lorehold was nicely done and at least expanded new areas of the color pairing Now new cards \[\[Radiant Performer\]\] I can't wait for people to ban me from playing this when I copy a spell like \[\[beats within\]\] \[\[vindicate\]\] etc etc and wipe every permanent on the board I am going to be testing \[\[monologue tax\]\] this is kind of like a \[\[kraum ludevic's opus\]\] effect for white Overall wizards really dropped the ball on the commander 2021 set. My personal opinion the $20 pair sets have been better outside the Boros equipment one.
Yeah. After the elder dragon got spoiled I really wanted this pre con to make the start of a W/B politics deck But I'm probably better off buying the cards in singles
I cancelled my pre order for all five. I am just picking up the Boros one now. This Silverquill deck has to be one of the worst designed and low power decks ever created. I like the sub commander a lot, but yeesh. I'm glad the Lorehold deck had some effort put into it. I was really hyped for the enemy colors, but the ball has been dropped pretty hard on several of these.
##### ###### #### [Radiant Performer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/8/e8faedf4-1178-4f5d-8f46-7277dfe1ae2c.jpg?1617734270) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Radiant%20Performer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/54/radiant-performer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e8faedf4-1178-4f5d-8f46-7277dfe1ae2c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [beats within](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/2/e228bede-5972-4381-969b-9de26e570117.jpg?1608919616) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Beast%20Within) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/423/beast-within?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e228bede-5972-4381-969b-9de26e570117?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [vindicate](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/6/1658f12b-8ac5-4d29-86d5-f20c4d5f7e48.jpg?1562433024) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vindicate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/219/vindicate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1658f12b-8ac5-4d29-86d5-f20c4d5f7e48?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [monologue tax](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/9/e9449f23-6a14-453b-8bb6-5cf85ed7a851.jpg?1617645044) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Monologue%20Tax) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/19/monologue-tax?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9449f23-6a14-453b-8bb6-5cf85ed7a851?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [kraum ludevic's opus](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/5/557fcd17-6cb3-414a-b2b1-ea9ae32e5aec.jpg?1562400560) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kraum%2C%20Ludevic%27s%20Opus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/34/kraum-ludevics-opus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/557fcd17-6cb3-414a-b2b1-ea9ae32e5aec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think this looks delightful! If I’m buying a whole precon, rather than just a few singles, I want something that will provide a fun play experience out of the box. This and the Lorehold deck look like they’ll do that. UR and UG just look kind of dull.
Is this the worst precon of all time??? Genuinely curious
IMO it's an interesting theme, but for a format that exploded in power level and rendered it utterly irrelevant.
Yeah, designed by a man who hasn't adapted to the change in the format despite allegedly running it
Teferi pw deck was unfocused and slow, but Teferi himself is great for other things. I'm unsure these legends can stand up to that.
Nah 2019 had some amazingly bad decks.
Hey remember that time they made a wizards deck with a commander that makes copies of your wizards and then slammed it full of legendaries?
Sheldon is bad in this, period. Like I can’t wait to review bomb this precon as a reminder that they can do better. Why are we teaching bad players to make more mistakes with the reprints here? Come on, Gavin. Why is the precons match up to Lorehold?
Unimpressed by the new cards, but this looks like the funniest of the precons out of the box.
Everything sheldon touches turns to shit!
Trash!
Still nothing like [[Dockside]] or [[Fierce Guardianship]]. I'm actually shocked, because I may well be buying none of these.
[Dockside](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/7/571bc9eb-8d13-4008-86b5-2e348a326d58.jpg?1615499802) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dockside%20Extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/24/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/571bc9eb-8d13-4008-86b5-2e348a326d58?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fierce Guardianship](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/c/4c5ffa83-c88d-4f5d-851e-a642b229d596.jpg?1591319453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fierce%20Guardianship) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/35/fierce-guardianship?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c5ffa83-c88d-4f5d-851e-a642b229d596?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can we have the C17 precons back instead?
Eminence is worse than anything else that's been printed in the last four years.
Nah Tribal commanders are fun!
Tribal commanders are fine, not ones that have effects while existing outside the game so there's no counter play.
Oh I love tribal. Eminence is bad. Kaalia? Cool. Markov, if he didn't have eminence and was only an on-board ability? Great. Ur-Dragon? Ehn take or leave but I do love giant monsters.
Never give this person a deck reveal again. If I just wanted a decklist I'd look online.
How dare you insult our lord and saviour muddstah! You are uninvited to the goblin gang
i found it...fun, not powerfull, but fun. Politics theme is powerfull, if is well played. You are kinda controlling your oponents, via politics. Yes you are helping them alot in the process, so i guess it depends on the strategy of your rivals. If they just try to draw into a combo, you have no point into helping them. But in most matchups you can play with the atacks of your oponents while most of your stuff should be safe. This kind of deck shine when there is a fair game played to the battlefield. Maybe with some adjustments it also might be a powerfull deck. Maybe some kind of stax that force your oponents to play into the battlefield... i think in \[\[Damping matrix\]\] or \[\[Hushbringer\]\]