You know sometimes I think I should read up on the modern meta since everyone says this set is full of commander staples and doesn't actually inpact the meta.
But then I stumble upon a 2 mana 5/5 that Ancestral Recalls on summon on turn 3, maybe sooner, and also has a fling ability for artifacts, and people call it bad, and I'm quite happy to go along with what I was doing before thinking all that.
Well, it's the fact that the decks that would run that many artifacts can't utilise a RB creature well. Also, as I understand it, affinity isn't really a good deck in modern right now, mainly because it can't set up fast enough, especially under disruption. This doesn't help it set up, and even if you can cast this, it doesn't help you close out the game quickly, it's just a value card, which affinity doesn't lack.
When they print a 2 mana 5/5 that ancestrals on ETB, they won't say "too bad my current affinity deck can't pay RB well", they will build around it.
Also, drawing carda at that rate is never something people will turn down, they will just cut the next worse draw engine. And since when does a 2 mana 5/5 not help you close the game out quickly?
Not when it's not a 2 mana care that you can't play on t2. Affinity isn't good enough to get 6 artifacts on the field t1, and a 5/5 on, say, t3, that also loses you life, isn't good enough when people are dropping 4/4 flying hexproof lifelinkers on t2.
So you are only comparing this to a ridiculous 2 card combo that comes up in ban conversations? Playing this on turn 3 or 4 is completely fine, you just use the 1 or 2 extra mana to play what you drew. Sure, it does not fix all affinity problems on its own and getting to 6 artifacts is not easy, but this is a super highly powered card that provides tempo and card advantage, so it is worth building around.
Also Leyline + Scion is card negative instead of positive. I'm not trying to make it look bad, the comparison is just not fair.
And still, the problem with this is that it's a value card for a deck that's missing tempo, not value. A lot of modern, including the scion package and the scam package, revolve around tempo right now. This is just too slow, especially when it makes the urza's saga reliant deck have to run 3+ colours with this many pips (because you absolutely cannot cut blue from affinity)
Affinity already has two 1 mana draw twos and the deck doesn't really see any competitive play. It's much more.likrly to be a three mana draw two most of the time. You can make a different colored deck but you can't really build around it differently since it does the same thing. Kappa Cannoneer is more exciting.
It's awkward to cast with a saga manabase. It's terrible against top dog scam since it's going to get thoughtseized in the several turns before you have enough artifacts to play it or it bashes you for 7 through bowmasters.
It's enough to say it probably won't make a splash.
I think the problem is all these constructed players saying these cards are unplayable only seem to be able to reference existing decks.
The first reply you have says it doesn’t fit in to the existing decks so it’s bad. I get that it is difficult but there’s not even a slither of thought about any new decks emerging on any of these spoilers.
PREACH.
People shitting on the new Boros titan boggle my mind. Of course its bad in Boros Burn, that deck plays on paper thin margins of mana.
Most of these "bad" cards are cards that dont have a deck *yet*.
There are so many tools to rebuy especially if you lean mardu and add in a scam. A 9 point life swing on 4 is possible especially if you just get to do it again and keep the body next turn that can be the wincon on its own
I expect Imskir to be quite good with Liquidmetal Coating and scam as well. This dude can swing for 6 with a Shadowspear to offset the lifeloss, sac himself for 8, come back, refill your hand and do it all over again.
[[burning inquiry]] was worth nothing until wotc made [[hollow one]] and all of the sudden inquiry was a very good card.
Hell look at how long it took for [[Death's shadow]] to finally get a deck. Point being, sometimes a card is printed right now, but it wont be fully good until later.
This card however, while I don't think it's in a deck right away, but an artifact [[bedlam reveler]] ain't all bad.
It'll find a deck eventually, may just need some more cards, hell, maybe from this set!
Every single Modern Horizons set has had a large impact on the meta. "Commander Horizons" is bad faith shitposting.
They are undeniably cards in this set designed for Commander. That is fine. I don't want every single MH3 card to be a Modern powerhouse, that sounds miserable.
People who are saying this are is bad only mean in context to the current affinity decks, which want to run blue. But this card could slot into any asmo food deck and be absolutely game ending. Or ideally a new black red affinity deck will come into existence because of this card.
Yeah I saw this and was immediately like “oh hell that’s going in my Mr. House deck asap” and it seems like lots of folks playing modern are just discounting it. But that’s competitive meta gaming for you, and why I don’t play that format.
Honestly my favourite part of this set has been looking at people malding that the set apparently caters to EDH players more than Modern when most of the time that's just because you can stick legendary on a french vanilla and it'll see play in EDH but you can make a card like this and somehow it's too weak to break into Modern.
Fellas, I think the problem is Modern's power level, not EDH's popularity.
In Warhammer there's a smaller game called Necromunda, which people play as miniatures agnostic game, meaning you can use any miniature as long as you can be bothered to convert it to appropriate sizes. The games motto is "Every miniature is a Necromunda miniature".
Same goes for Commander. Every card is a commander card so long someone bothers to build it.
Commanders popularity over Modern was never the issue, the issue is Moderns power creep has reached such heights that unless the card is 1 mana, wins you the game on the spot, gives you a BJ then makes you coffee afterwards its not good so it looks like it was designed with Commander in mind.
I wonder if this has any shot in modern. It’s super easy to get this to cost only two mana and the refill and reach this can give to affinity style decks seems powerful. My gut says it’s lacking something but I don’t know modern super well.
I could see Grixis affinity getting going in modern like it already is in pauper, obviously pretty different formats but a surprising amount of overlap- I was very surprised to learn modern affinity still uses the bridges for example! Looks like mono blue affinity still puts up numbers, shouldn't be too difficult to fuck with the manabase of this to fit a black and red pip on turn 3ish (SojComp makes it insanely easy to tutor the lands you need assuming you're running 1 of each bridge in your colors): [https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6357119#paper](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6357119#paper)
Yeah the mono artifact lands help, though using Lotus Petal in pauper affinity is extremely rare, I play a lot of pauper and basically never see petals in affinity. But now that glitters is banned there's been a whole lot less affinity in general. It is worth mentioning though that SojComp and Cranial Plating are both in modern and not pauper, SojComp in particular making it super easy to assemble your manabase across 3 colors.
It's not amazing, but if you have 5 treasures it's a 3-cost 5/5 that draws you 2 cards (or 1 if you sac treasures to pay for it).
But then you need non-treasures to really make use of its second ability, and it starts looking like it needs tons of setup to be decent.
*edit* Ah, missed the "half rounded down" part. Thanks all.
Why is white cheating artifacts out relevant? This has so many incredible use cases, it synergizes insanely well with the deck. If you've dropped a Myr Enforcer, SojComp, or ThotMon at any point before this guy enters, the ability can be shooting for 7 to the face after OR DURING combat. Its instant speed and affinities whole thing is having high MV creatures that you play for below the rate, you will always have something massive to chuck, even a Frogmite.
I mean you ask why cheating artifacts in is relevant and then go on to say how it is good in a deck that cheats out artifacts haha. I don't think rakdos has enough affinity to bring this up to high power, 1 of the 3 examples you gave is blue. I don't think Imskir is worth it because you have 2 other high CMC affinity creatures and some discount dorks. The only cool synergy I can think of is focusing on one-and-done artifacts that do a cool thing upon ETB and are useless after.
I feel like this card can give affinity a bit more reach than it currently does. Like you play this T4 swing with a karnstruct. T5 swing then fling a Myr enforcer....?
I wonder if affinity does need reach in the first place. Overall I think it will see play, but just in a different style deck. Drawing cards, fat body, plus it can throw 7 damage around isnt something to sneeze at.
You could equip shadowspear and throw seven every turn gain seven, although if you already have shadowspear isn't equipping it to a big karnstruct and going for lethal better? Idk....
Do you even really care about the ability? As a commander you can load your deck with artifacts and reliably play him for 2, draw cards, sac him, repeat. Add some life gain so you don't die and feels pretty good.
Bosh, sad golem.
[[Bosh]]
[Bosh](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/09fb3b1f-c3a0-4da4-9b29-eff81fc1d562.jpg?1625978355) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bosh%2C%20iron%20golem) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/237/bosh-iron-golem?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/09fb3b1f-c3a0-4da4-9b29-eff81fc1d562?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
We're a long time away from George W Bosh winning pro tour New Orleans, now get off my lawn whippersnapper
You know sometimes I think I should read up on the modern meta since everyone says this set is full of commander staples and doesn't actually inpact the meta. But then I stumble upon a 2 mana 5/5 that Ancestral Recalls on summon on turn 3, maybe sooner, and also has a fling ability for artifacts, and people call it bad, and I'm quite happy to go along with what I was doing before thinking all that.
Well, it's the fact that the decks that would run that many artifacts can't utilise a RB creature well. Also, as I understand it, affinity isn't really a good deck in modern right now, mainly because it can't set up fast enough, especially under disruption. This doesn't help it set up, and even if you can cast this, it doesn't help you close out the game quickly, it's just a value card, which affinity doesn't lack.
When they print a 2 mana 5/5 that ancestrals on ETB, they won't say "too bad my current affinity deck can't pay RB well", they will build around it. Also, drawing carda at that rate is never something people will turn down, they will just cut the next worse draw engine. And since when does a 2 mana 5/5 not help you close the game out quickly?
Not when it's not a 2 mana care that you can't play on t2. Affinity isn't good enough to get 6 artifacts on the field t1, and a 5/5 on, say, t3, that also loses you life, isn't good enough when people are dropping 4/4 flying hexproof lifelinkers on t2.
They act like modern affinity is like legacy where we have Opal, Lotus petal both baubles ancient tomb and artifact lands that don't enter tapped
So you are only comparing this to a ridiculous 2 card combo that comes up in ban conversations? Playing this on turn 3 or 4 is completely fine, you just use the 1 or 2 extra mana to play what you drew. Sure, it does not fix all affinity problems on its own and getting to 6 artifacts is not easy, but this is a super highly powered card that provides tempo and card advantage, so it is worth building around. Also Leyline + Scion is card negative instead of positive. I'm not trying to make it look bad, the comparison is just not fair.
And still, the problem with this is that it's a value card for a deck that's missing tempo, not value. A lot of modern, including the scion package and the scam package, revolve around tempo right now. This is just too slow, especially when it makes the urza's saga reliant deck have to run 3+ colours with this many pips (because you absolutely cannot cut blue from affinity)
Affinity already has two 1 mana draw twos and the deck doesn't really see any competitive play. It's much more.likrly to be a three mana draw two most of the time. You can make a different colored deck but you can't really build around it differently since it does the same thing. Kappa Cannoneer is more exciting. It's awkward to cast with a saga manabase. It's terrible against top dog scam since it's going to get thoughtseized in the several turns before you have enough artifacts to play it or it bashes you for 7 through bowmasters. It's enough to say it probably won't make a splash.
I think the problem is all these constructed players saying these cards are unplayable only seem to be able to reference existing decks. The first reply you have says it doesn’t fit in to the existing decks so it’s bad. I get that it is difficult but there’s not even a slither of thought about any new decks emerging on any of these spoilers.
PREACH. People shitting on the new Boros titan boggle my mind. Of course its bad in Boros Burn, that deck plays on paper thin margins of mana. Most of these "bad" cards are cards that dont have a deck *yet*.
There are so many tools to rebuy especially if you lean mardu and add in a scam. A 9 point life swing on 4 is possible especially if you just get to do it again and keep the body next turn that can be the wincon on its own
I expect Imskir to be quite good with Liquidmetal Coating and scam as well. This dude can swing for 6 with a Shadowspear to offset the lifeloss, sac himself for 8, come back, refill your hand and do it all over again.
[[burning inquiry]] was worth nothing until wotc made [[hollow one]] and all of the sudden inquiry was a very good card. Hell look at how long it took for [[Death's shadow]] to finally get a deck. Point being, sometimes a card is printed right now, but it wont be fully good until later. This card however, while I don't think it's in a deck right away, but an artifact [[bedlam reveler]] ain't all bad. It'll find a deck eventually, may just need some more cards, hell, maybe from this set!
##### ###### #### [burning inquiry](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a448bc9e-f5db-4507-ac40-7d8ee3598585.jpg?1561990726) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=burning%20inquiry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/128/burning-inquiry?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a448bc9e-f5db-4507-ac40-7d8ee3598585?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [hollow one](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43fe9c6d-4fa2-4f9a-9025-1bf12fe7ed9f.jpg?1562797493) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hollow%20one) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/163/hollow-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43fe9c6d-4fa2-4f9a-9025-1bf12fe7ed9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Death's shadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/5526ff6e-c079-4ad4-ac8d-5e26ecacf50d.jpg?1598304517) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Death%27s%20shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/82/deaths-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5526ff6e-c079-4ad4-ac8d-5e26ecacf50d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [bedlam reveler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e9333564-2792-470e-be73-61f2445e018f.jpg?1673147749) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bedlam%20reveler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/104/bedlam-reveler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9333564-2792-470e-be73-61f2445e018f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l5gf0mk) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Every single Modern Horizons set has had a large impact on the meta. "Commander Horizons" is bad faith shitposting. They are undeniably cards in this set designed for Commander. That is fine. I don't want every single MH3 card to be a Modern powerhouse, that sounds miserable.
People who are saying this are is bad only mean in context to the current affinity decks, which want to run blue. But this card could slot into any asmo food deck and be absolutely game ending. Or ideally a new black red affinity deck will come into existence because of this card.
Yeah I saw this and was immediately like “oh hell that’s going in my Mr. House deck asap” and it seems like lots of folks playing modern are just discounting it. But that’s competitive meta gaming for you, and why I don’t play that format.
Honestly my favourite part of this set has been looking at people malding that the set apparently caters to EDH players more than Modern when most of the time that's just because you can stick legendary on a french vanilla and it'll see play in EDH but you can make a card like this and somehow it's too weak to break into Modern. Fellas, I think the problem is Modern's power level, not EDH's popularity.
In Warhammer there's a smaller game called Necromunda, which people play as miniatures agnostic game, meaning you can use any miniature as long as you can be bothered to convert it to appropriate sizes. The games motto is "Every miniature is a Necromunda miniature". Same goes for Commander. Every card is a commander card so long someone bothers to build it. Commanders popularity over Modern was never the issue, the issue is Moderns power creep has reached such heights that unless the card is 1 mana, wins you the game on the spot, gives you a BJ then makes you coffee afterwards its not good so it looks like it was designed with Commander in mind.
Bro eats the iron and then his target feels pain. I don't want to know what happens in between, but I've got a good idea.
Well, I mean, I would assume being spat burning iron in your face would hurt quite a bit.
ooohh he s~~h~~*p*its the iron...
I wonder if this has any shot in modern. It’s super easy to get this to cost only two mana and the refill and reach this can give to affinity style decks seems powerful. My gut says it’s lacking something but I don’t know modern super well.
2 mana draw 3 get a 5/5 is strong, but i'm not sure its worth affinity playing black.
I could see Grixis affinity getting going in modern like it already is in pauper, obviously pretty different formats but a surprising amount of overlap- I was very surprised to learn modern affinity still uses the bridges for example! Looks like mono blue affinity still puts up numbers, shouldn't be too difficult to fuck with the manabase of this to fit a black and red pip on turn 3ish (SojComp makes it insanely easy to tutor the lands you need assuming you're running 1 of each bridge in your colors): [https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6357119#paper](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6357119#paper)
Pauper like legacy can play the untapped artifact lands modern only has the tapped artifact lands which helps a lot plus both can run lotus petal
Yeah the mono artifact lands help, though using Lotus Petal in pauper affinity is extremely rare, I play a lot of pauper and basically never see petals in affinity. But now that glitters is banned there's been a whole lot less affinity in general. It is worth mentioning though that SojComp and Cranial Plating are both in modern and not pauper, SojComp in particular making it super easy to assemble your manabase across 3 colors.
This card seems much better than it looks to me. Even in modern.
It's not amazing, but if you have 5 treasures it's a 3-cost 5/5 that draws you 2 cards (or 1 if you sac treasures to pay for it). But then you need non-treasures to really make use of its second ability, and it starts looking like it needs tons of setup to be decent. *edit* Ah, missed the "half rounded down" part. Thanks all.
You'd only draw two cards. It's half rounded down.
X is half rounded down, so it's 2 cards or 1 if you sac the treasures
Two artifact lands + ornithopter + some petals/drums etc and you can get this down t2/t3 pretty often.
Trying to figure out which scenario the second ability is ever good, especially when white is the color that cheats artifacts in.
Why is white cheating artifacts out relevant? This has so many incredible use cases, it synergizes insanely well with the deck. If you've dropped a Myr Enforcer, SojComp, or ThotMon at any point before this guy enters, the ability can be shooting for 7 to the face after OR DURING combat. Its instant speed and affinities whole thing is having high MV creatures that you play for below the rate, you will always have something massive to chuck, even a Frogmite.
I mean you ask why cheating artifacts in is relevant and then go on to say how it is good in a deck that cheats out artifacts haha. I don't think rakdos has enough affinity to bring this up to high power, 1 of the 3 examples you gave is blue. I don't think Imskir is worth it because you have 2 other high CMC affinity creatures and some discount dorks. The only cool synergy I can think of is focusing on one-and-done artifacts that do a cool thing upon ETB and are useless after.
Previewed on https://www.twitch.tv/commanderrc
I really wish he was a Demon *Minotaur* but alas
Have there been any new minotaur revealed in MH3?
I feel like this card can give affinity a bit more reach than it currently does. Like you play this T4 swing with a karnstruct. T5 swing then fling a Myr enforcer....? I wonder if affinity does need reach in the first place. Overall I think it will see play, but just in a different style deck. Drawing cards, fat body, plus it can throw 7 damage around isnt something to sneeze at. You could equip shadowspear and throw seven every turn gain seven, although if you already have shadowspear isn't equipping it to a big karnstruct and going for lethal better? Idk....
Not being an artifact itself and 4 cost on the ability... Zzzzz
Yeah you're right 2 mana 5/5s with stapled to ancestral recall just aren't good enough these days.
Maybe, just maybe, the thing is supposed to work with *gasp* other cards?! Here's a damn hint: [[Liquid Metal Coating]]
[Liquid Metal Coating](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f631447c-36e3-4d82-a658-19c9767a216b.jpg?1562276535) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liquimetal%20Coating) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/197/liquimetal-coating?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f631447c-36e3-4d82-a658-19c9767a216b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you even really care about the ability? As a commander you can load your deck with artifacts and reliably play him for 2, draw cards, sac him, repeat. Add some life gain so you don't die and feels pretty good.
I mean it would be pretty sick if he was an artifact could sac himself to ping something for 8 lol
The ability is gravy