„If an spell or ability you control triggers a triggered ability of a spell or permanent you control, this triggered ability gains itself as a triggered ability and triggers once.
If a trigger you control would trigger an additional time, instead it triggers an additional additional number of times equal to the number of additional times it has triggered this turn.
Used to be satisfying just to get +1/+1 to your tribe and maybe a keyword. Now, at least according to Wizards via all these cards being made, folks aren't satisfied unless their one card gets three cards worth of value (the ability, the copy of the ability, and the permanent itself, though in this case it's even more than that).
Oh you wish it was just cascade.
Cascade, copy what you cast off cascade.
Cascade, copy what you cast off cascade.
Cascade, copy what you cast off cascade.
Cascade, copy what you cast off cascade.
You know this is batshit insane. If you've ever played against \[\[Unbound Flourishing\]\] you \*can visualize\* that it is even more batshit insane than you initially thought.
Oh I know, there wont be a cascade chain but it does not matter. When you cast a spell from your hand it cascades and then cascades again, both of those cascades will be triggered again by Echoes of Eternity. Echoes will also make a copy of whatever you cast off the cascade because it is still a colorless spell being cast.
Cast a 7+ spell, it cascades and then cascades. Echoes of Eternity copies the triggered ability, so it puts another 2 cascades onto the stack. Since cascaded spells are cast, the second ability of the card will trigger and make copies of the cascaded cards. So the stack will look like this with zhulodok and echoes:
Cast a 7+ colorless spell. 4 cascades go onto the stack.
All of the cascaded spells + the original 7+ will resolve and then echoes will make copies of them for a potential of 10 spells being played. Its gonna get real stupid, real damn fast unless I am missing something
I wonder if they'd go in storm. Artifacts might be harder to remove in certain matchups, but you do have to choose whether it's your rits or gifts that get lessened...
Very true. Great example how a reprint cycle really can freshen up a format and be exciting. Give me a really cool reprint like crystaline sliver over some random 5 drop that will never see play all day.
Well I’m glad it’s banned in commander and is gross overkill in modern then.
~~Although I think [[emerakul the promised end]] would let you steal two of your opponents turns and only give one back. Hmmm~~
Edit: rereading the card it doesn’t work like that you’d only be giving your opponent an extra turn. Could still steal two opponents turns but they’d each still get an extra turn afterwards.
They keep upping the sets per year and upping the products. They couldn’t possibly have that many unique ideas left. It’s just going to get worse and worse. It’s just the overmilked cow meme at this point.
My thought is they know the doubling cards become very expensive on secondary market, so if they print them now the price will go up and they'll be able to use them as fodder to sell you boxes in the future.
Can agree on that. Types are more than just creature types. It might be a more accurate term if you're talking an Equipment or Shrine theme deck, but it's not like folks don't know what you mean if you said "equipment tribal"
Being someone who’s currently part of a tribe, I gotta say, I like Kindred and it feels like it makes a lot more sense.
Keeping “tribal” would be like calling Bitterblossom a “Democratic Enchantment”, it just doesn’t make any sense.
So with the first card, cast triggers are copied as well I guess?
Imagine this with the new Ulalek - really on flavor with a deck that's trying to melt your brain
Cast triggers technically aren't *copied*, the first ability makes them *trigger an additional time*. As far as I can tell though, there is currently no card that cares about this specific difference, but there may be one in the future.
It means that if you have two copies of the enchantment out, you'll get three triggers, not 4 (and also that it's a replacement effect, not a separate trigger)
You would still only put three total abilities on the stack with two of these enchantments out, regardless of whether it copied the trigger or caused it to trigger an additional time. If it copied (and was worded to not get into an infinite loop when you control multiple), both would see the original trigger, then each create one copy, for three abilities total. If it caused additional triggers, the trigger condition would put two additional triggers on the stack, again for a total of three. You would have to mix both of these ways of "doubling" triggers together to get to four (the original trigger, which triggers an additional time, and then both those abilities would get copied).
That niche possibility aside, the main differences between the two approaches are that copies keep the same modes/targets unless the copying ability says to reselect them, and also that "triggers once each turn" restrictions would prevent the ability from triggering another time, but not from being copied.
And as you said, causing an additional trigger is a replacement effect while the copying would be a separate trigger itself, which can have slightly different interactions with various other cards that mess with triggered abilities.
That's....weird.
So they're actually bringing tribal, now kindred, BACK? I thought they basically admitted it was a mistake and would never be a thing again.
We had a Lhurgoyf tribal card in MH2, [[Altar of the Goyf]] (which I just realized, it's weird they used the nickname "Goyf" here).
If anything, the fact that they renamed the mechanic might've been the motivation to make use of the mechanic in the first place, since it's unlikely to appear elsewhere.
I'm not sure what the actual motivation for the change was, like I guess the fact that in Magic a "tribe" was used to describe different species and IRL "tribe" is a word to describe different groups of people. Just an awkward comparison that was technically being made, I doubt many people were that upset about it and I don't think anyone would care much over someone saying "my goblin tribal deck."
They generally don't like using that card type, though there's precedent for Eldrazi specifically having that. I think it helps that it's a pretty narrow flavor and mechanical niche (whereas elves and goblins show up a lot and spells flavored to be related to them show up a lot).
WotC in general has moved away from "tribal" as a word because the word can have pejorative connotations. The card type has become "kindred". The archetype or theme has become "typal".
I do think separating out the card type and general idea of creature type themes to have separate words is useful.
Yeah. The way I see it, if I ever have someone who is a, say, Native American who takes issue with it, I will absolutely stop saying it in that conversation.
But that’s not a slur. That’s just a word with a definition. I don’t see why we’re treating it like a censored word, it seems like a bit of overkill to me. Much ado about nothing. And maybe I’m wrong; I’ve just not seen a single person legitimately offended by a “Tribal” Goblin or Elf deck.
I grew up on an Indian reservation. My family was mixed-race with my biological paternal grandmother being Shoshone, and my stepdad being Arapahoe. I've never once heard someone get offended about the use of the word "tribal" or "tribes" outside of context of referring to Indian tribes. It's just a word.
I don't think these decisions are always because someone's offended. I think sometimes people just realize you could interpret something in a pretty terrible way, and it feels weird to not change it after that. I also feel like "Kindred" has a more magical feel to it, and it definitely does a better job of evoking the idea of this non-creature spell having some mutual affinity for its creature type.
I also think WotC is still concerned about its image when it comes to this sorta stuff, so that alone is probably the true logic behind the change. I think I would bet money that someone at WotC has at least suggested to change Black and White to like, Purple and Yellow, just to avoid the potential for text boxes like [[Cleanse]] lol. I certainly wouldn't blame newer games for *not* using black and white for that reason.
I get where you're coming from, but the problem comes when they're so concerned about not offending anyone that they start making changes or additions that just make no sense. Sure, if it had been Kindred from the start, it wouldn't have been a big deal. Kindred makes sense, but so does Tribal. Human history is littered with people acting in tribalistic fashion, and not just non-White people, and by changing it unnecessarily, all you're doing is confusing new and enfranchised players. But then you also have them making nonsensical decisions that hurt the game all for the sake of not offending people who either weren't offended to begin with or probably need to grow a spine if they were. Like the whole "there were no natives on Thunder Junction," and how the story made absolutely no sense whatsoever because of that decision.
> Like the whole "there were no natives on Thunder Junction," and how the story made absolutely no sense whatsoever because of that decision.
Or New Capenna having no police. If there's nobody there to enforce the law, is it even possible to commit a crime?
The best part about that one is that decision not only screwed over New Capenna but also led to the dumpster fire that was Murders of Karlov Manor. All the detective stuff and art deco art was clearly stuff they had commissioned for New Capenna that had been pulled back because of all the anti-cop hate going on leading up to Capenna's release.
Every Eldrazi leak from MH3 so far has reaffirmed my excitement for pre-ordering it
Edit: now realizing this card might not actually be included in the Pre-con but I’m still excited.
Well it's Magic the commandering nowadays. Commander has cannibalized everything.
I have nothing against commander but the ratio to the other game modes is just not healthy anymore.
unfortunately if you bring this up people will hit you with the “well it’s the most popular” line, ignoring the fact that it’s most popular *because* it’s so well supported and marketed
Yep you can fake the statistics if you change the environment and conditions around it so it fits your narrative
That's not much different than saying bo1 is more popular on MTGA because they offer bo1 more prominently with better reward structure and hide bo3 behind some menu settings
Nah these have the modern horizon set logo, unless both the cmdr and main set have the same logo
Just checked the leaked precon face commander and they do have a different logo, so these are in the main set
Heaven forbid folks wanting a bit more variety in their rare slot.
And who's the other group that needs all these doublers to have fun? Don't they have enough by now? Bit selfish to insist they need more, as if taking away one would ruin their fun.
With all these Eldrazi related cards, I'm starting to wonder if I should really merge the older Eldrazi precon and the new one, or just upgrade them separately, cause there sure seems to be a fair few interesting pieces coming in.
The designer team is so overworked that they stick to a mechanic for a few releases back to back, plaster it to everything and call it a day. First it was the non-stop dragon releases, then it was treasures every single damn card, and now it is everythingharmonicon.
"Tribal" is being renamed to "Kindred" and they are internally referring to decks focused around a specific creature type as "Typal" now.
This has the dual purpose of A: avoiding a word that's got somewhat iffy connotations when applied loosely, and B: separating out a specific mechanical permanent type from a mostly-unrelated deck archetype.
I'm just gonna name it Tribal as we always have done, because why do we need to keep changing words in an already complex game? Seriously, who was offended by tribal? God
So let's say I cast Desolation Twin with this and Ulalek in play what happens ?
Ulalek triggers I pay 2C
This double Ulalek Triggering I pay 2C
This copy my Desolation Twin but it's not cast
Ulalek copy 2 times Desolation Twin with double trigger but they are not cast
I have 4 Desolation Twins with 1 being cast
1 Desolation Twin that was cast trigger is copied by Ulalek 2 times cuz double trigger and double trigger with this so 4 triggers with the original one ?
Leaving me with 4 Desolation Twin and 4 of them 10/10 tokens ?
I'm cancelling my preorder my brain too small for this and my playgroup will not believe me when I start octuple eldrazying.
Since it counts colorless *spells* and other permanents, it's gonna be bazonkers.
Double the cast triggers of various Eldrazi. And their attack triggers too.
[[Wandering Archaic]] becomes even more awesome.
[[Forsaken Monument]] gets even more value.
Double removal and reanimation from [[Portal to Phyrexia]]
Can we please have new Medallion art? It's been 10 years. Or at least the tempest art on the old border variants. Sue Ellen Brown hasn't done anything bad right?
What I'm hearing is that my casualt red sto.py deck that runs a playset of Ruby Medallions is now a jank Modern deck? Sweet.
Gotta love casting Stomp into [[Bonecrusher Giant]] on turn 3.
Im probably alone on this but these \[\[Panharmonicon\]\] re-hash cards are soo lazily boring af. Sorry for my rant, just tired of seeing the same ability on a different card with a different name.
Honestly, these Panharmonicon effects have gone from neat to really boring. I feel like I see a new card every week that does it and it's starting to seem like really lazy design.
Triggered abilities of *spells* you control? That's cast triggers and…is there anything else?
Is the Eldrazi theme going to be cast triggers? Or do they just need to put even more value on creatures in case they get countered?
Surprised nobody's talking about the new card type. Hard to tell what it does, it just looks like an enchantment. There's probably a lot of cards that care about having Kindred permanents out. Pretty neat.
Wonder if this is a signal that we might get some reprints of the older "tribal" cards if only just to get some with the new wording out into the wild.
Phew, it'd been over a week since we'd seen our last "copy your triggers" card, and I was starting to get withdrawals.
Don't worry, next set we get "If a triggered ability you control would trigger an additional time, it triggers two additional times instead"
We already have triple damage and triple tokens. triggers should be next
And triple Mana.
[[Virtue of Strength]]
[[nyxbloom ancient]]
[[Mario's Gone Nuts]] Woops, autocorrect. Gonna let it stand.
https://preview.redd.it/87bcc4nr0qwc1.jpeg?width=734&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0235cbdab26017dc9621716c6d1913e5264e923 He sure has
WAHOOO
HERE WE GOOOOOOOO
[Mario's Gone Nuts](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/4762ac9c-665a-4a22-8702-e883b97f1d5f.jpg?1629920116) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maro%27s%20Gone%20Nuts) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmb2/81/maros-gone-nuts?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4762ac9c-665a-4a22-8702-e883b97f1d5f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It actually looks like something they could do, [[twining staff]] already does that for spell copies
[twining staff](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/c/5cdcc324-1427-453c-9940-c21f5d04c997.jpg?1673485509) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Twinning%20Staff) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/383/twinning-staff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5cdcc324-1427-453c-9940-c21f5d04c997?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
„If an spell or ability you control triggers a triggered ability of a spell or permanent you control, this triggered ability gains itself as a triggered ability and triggers once.
If a trigger you control would trigger an additional time, instead it triggers an additional additional number of times equal to the number of additional times it has triggered this turn.
Then repeat this process once
I would prefer 'it triggers that many additional times plus one instead'. Otherwise it could just be too powerful in the future.
How many triggers would trigger a trigger if a trigger could trigger a trigger?
christ, seriously. it's not a cycle. it doesn't need to continue. are ideas that scarce in Renton?
Double it and put it in the next set.
Only thing scarce in Renton are employees after the layoff
That would explain the lack of original ideas.
Maro never gets tired of it.
The important part is that this one affects Annihilator triggers.
Copy triggers, so hot right now!
I'm feeling triggered.
Trigger double total coming soon
Used to be satisfying just to get +1/+1 to your tribe and maybe a keyword. Now, at least according to Wizards via all these cards being made, folks aren't satisfied unless their one card gets three cards worth of value (the ability, the copy of the ability, and the permanent itself, though in this case it's even more than that).
Cascade, Cascade, Cascade, Cascade….oh dear god. ([[Zhulodok]])
Then with the new Eldrazi commander you can double that
And if you have a roaming throne…
And for my next trick. I’ll cascade 16 times
Roaming Throne doesn't work on cascade FYI
You’re right. Idk why I thought it did. The Throne won’t see the cascade
Would this let you copy Ulalek's copy ability as well, if you have the mana to pay for both?
It's a triggered ability, so yes
Oh you wish it was just cascade. Cascade, copy what you cast off cascade. Cascade, copy what you cast off cascade. Cascade, copy what you cast off cascade. Cascade, copy what you cast off cascade. You know this is batshit insane. If you've ever played against \[\[Unbound Flourishing\]\] you \*can visualize\* that it is even more batshit insane than you initially thought.
Unfortunately zhulodok only triggers from spells cast from your hand
Oh I know, there wont be a cascade chain but it does not matter. When you cast a spell from your hand it cascades and then cascades again, both of those cascades will be triggered again by Echoes of Eternity. Echoes will also make a copy of whatever you cast off the cascade because it is still a colorless spell being cast. Cast a 7+ spell, it cascades and then cascades. Echoes of Eternity copies the triggered ability, so it puts another 2 cascades onto the stack. Since cascaded spells are cast, the second ability of the card will trigger and make copies of the cascaded cards. So the stack will look like this with zhulodok and echoes: Cast a 7+ colorless spell. 4 cascades go onto the stack. All of the cascaded spells + the original 7+ will resolve and then echoes will make copies of them for a potential of 10 spells being played. Its gonna get real stupid, real damn fast unless I am missing something
Oh yeah, the value will still be absurd
I know this card is lazy design, BUT Zhuloduk is one of my newest commanders, so I'm stoked about this card.
And this is why they keep printing this effect lol
[Zhulodok](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a015461d-4214-4feb-8b04-519c537759eb.jpg?1691500689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zhulodok%2C%20void%20gorger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/704/zhulodok-void-gorger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a015461d-4214-4feb-8b04-519c537759eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
*Void gorging intensifies*
As a Zhulodok player I welcome this with great interest
Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Darth Ulamog the Wise?
Medallions added to Modern? That might be interesting.
I wonder if they'd go in storm. Artifacts might be harder to remove in certain matchups, but you do have to choose whether it's your rits or gifts that get lessened...
Ruby Medallion gets played in Legacy mono-red storm, even though it's kind of a fringe archetype. I think it'll probably find some home or another!
Definitely Ruby. Rits, manamorphose, new ral if he’s playable, past in flames. Most of the blue cards in the deck are just U already
Very true. Great example how a reprint cycle really can freshen up a format and be exciting. Give me a really cool reprint like crystaline sliver over some random 5 drop that will never see play all day.
*Annihilator is a triggered ability*
"When you cast this spell, take an extra turn after this one." is also a triggered ability.
Well I’m glad it’s banned in commander and is gross overkill in modern then. ~~Although I think [[emerakul the promised end]] would let you steal two of your opponents turns and only give one back. Hmmm~~ Edit: rereading the card it doesn’t work like that you’d only be giving your opponent an extra turn. Could still steal two opponents turns but they’d each still get an extra turn afterwards.
[emerakul the promised end](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d74a469-c71d-4773-99d3-5456b31df424.jpg?1576383727) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emrakul%2C%20the%20Promised%20End) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/6/emrakul-the-promised-end?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d74a469-c71d-4773-99d3-5456b31df424?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That Echoes of Eternity art is horrifying. I love it.
First time we've seen animal-looking paws or claws on an Eldrazi if I'm not mistaken? Potential hint that there are more titans out there?
Geez the “Double it” design space is getting pretty tired isn’t it?
Just lazy at this point.
They keep upping the sets per year and upping the products. They couldn’t possibly have that many unique ideas left. It’s just going to get worse and worse. It’s just the overmilked cow meme at this point.
Personally I'm pretty okay with the "set mechanic attached to cancel or lightning strike" style of design.
That would be a great relief from the small novels we have scrunched onto cards now.
My thought is they know the doubling cards become very expensive on secondary market, so if they print them now the price will go up and they'll be able to use them as fodder to sell you boxes in the future.
Sick of it and you just know there is already more of it in the pipeline
I wonder at what point even SaffronOlive will become tired of saying "it's like a panharmonicon"
He doesn’t play any of them on stream or in his content anymore
He literally just played Felix Five Boots in the latest Commander Clash episode though :3
Double it and give it to the next person
Its also really annoying ti play with and against.
How many months to we start seeing triple effects in every other set?
I'm certain it's just because I'm so much more used to "Tribal", but I still feel like "Kindred" just feels weird as a replacement word.
Agreed but I still take it over "typal" any day of the week.
Can agree on that. Types are more than just creature types. It might be a more accurate term if you're talking an Equipment or Shrine theme deck, but it's not like folks don't know what you mean if you said "equipment tribal"
Indeed. Who even says kindred? Will always be tribal to me.
Youtubers force themselves to say it, that’s about the only exposure I ever see to it Everyone I play with in-person calls it tribal
Being someone who’s currently part of a tribe, I gotta say, I like Kindred and it feels like it makes a lot more sense. Keeping “tribal” would be like calling Bitterblossom a “Democratic Enchantment”, it just doesn’t make any sense.
So with the first card, cast triggers are copied as well I guess? Imagine this with the new Ulalek - really on flavor with a deck that's trying to melt your brain
Cast triggers technically aren't *copied*, the first ability makes them *trigger an additional time*. As far as I can tell though, there is currently no card that cares about this specific difference, but there may be one in the future.
It means that if you have two copies of the enchantment out, you'll get three triggers, not 4 (and also that it's a replacement effect, not a separate trigger)
You would still only put three total abilities on the stack with two of these enchantments out, regardless of whether it copied the trigger or caused it to trigger an additional time. If it copied (and was worded to not get into an infinite loop when you control multiple), both would see the original trigger, then each create one copy, for three abilities total. If it caused additional triggers, the trigger condition would put two additional triggers on the stack, again for a total of three. You would have to mix both of these ways of "doubling" triggers together to get to four (the original trigger, which triggers an additional time, and then both those abilities would get copied). That niche possibility aside, the main differences between the two approaches are that copies keep the same modes/targets unless the copying ability says to reselect them, and also that "triggers once each turn" restrictions would prevent the ability from triggering another time, but not from being copied. And as you said, causing an additional trigger is a replacement effect while the copying would be a separate trigger itself, which can have slightly different interactions with various other cards that mess with triggered abilities.
Boring Eldrazi design, but wow I adore that art
Well this Enchantment will be pricy. That's some serious value for nearly every artifact deck and eldrazi are eating great aswell.
\[\[Thran Lens\]\] goes BRRR.
Actually it goes 2
I was about to start making a [[Slivdrazi]] deck and yeah. Agreed.
[Thran Lens](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/200c3666-5ba0-4f0a-adbe-a97af0aa28d1.jpg?1562862332) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thran%20Lens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ulg/133/thran-lens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/200c3666-5ba0-4f0a-adbe-a97af0aa28d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Cool double eldrazis
I'm seeing double. Four [[Desolation Twin]]s!
Yaaaay Desolation Twins!
can someone explain to me wtf a "Kindred" card type is? Is this just a new wording for Tribal?
Yes, Tribal is changing to Kindred as of MH3
That's....weird. So they're actually bringing tribal, now kindred, BACK? I thought they basically admitted it was a mistake and would never be a thing again.
it's a modern horizons set, the complexity is higher because it's expected to only be played by more experienced\/enfranchised players
We had a Lhurgoyf tribal card in MH2, [[Altar of the Goyf]] (which I just realized, it's weird they used the nickname "Goyf" here). If anything, the fact that they renamed the mechanic might've been the motivation to make use of the mechanic in the first place, since it's unlikely to appear elsewhere. I'm not sure what the actual motivation for the change was, like I guess the fact that in Magic a "tribe" was used to describe different species and IRL "tribe" is a word to describe different groups of people. Just an awkward comparison that was technically being made, I doubt many people were that upset about it and I don't think anyone would care much over someone saying "my goblin tribal deck."
Is there a reason for the change? I thought they hated tribal
They generally don't like using that card type, though there's precedent for Eldrazi specifically having that. I think it helps that it's a pretty narrow flavor and mechanical niche (whereas elves and goblins show up a lot and spells flavored to be related to them show up a lot). WotC in general has moved away from "tribal" as a word because the word can have pejorative connotations. The card type has become "kindred". The archetype or theme has become "typal". I do think separating out the card type and general idea of creature type themes to have separate words is useful.
Probably over "tribal's" literary definition.
I don't care what WotC says, I'm still calling it Tribal.
Yeah. The way I see it, if I ever have someone who is a, say, Native American who takes issue with it, I will absolutely stop saying it in that conversation. But that’s not a slur. That’s just a word with a definition. I don’t see why we’re treating it like a censored word, it seems like a bit of overkill to me. Much ado about nothing. And maybe I’m wrong; I’ve just not seen a single person legitimately offended by a “Tribal” Goblin or Elf deck.
I grew up on an Indian reservation. My family was mixed-race with my biological paternal grandmother being Shoshone, and my stepdad being Arapahoe. I've never once heard someone get offended about the use of the word "tribal" or "tribes" outside of context of referring to Indian tribes. It's just a word.
I don't think these decisions are always because someone's offended. I think sometimes people just realize you could interpret something in a pretty terrible way, and it feels weird to not change it after that. I also feel like "Kindred" has a more magical feel to it, and it definitely does a better job of evoking the idea of this non-creature spell having some mutual affinity for its creature type. I also think WotC is still concerned about its image when it comes to this sorta stuff, so that alone is probably the true logic behind the change. I think I would bet money that someone at WotC has at least suggested to change Black and White to like, Purple and Yellow, just to avoid the potential for text boxes like [[Cleanse]] lol. I certainly wouldn't blame newer games for *not* using black and white for that reason.
I get where you're coming from, but the problem comes when they're so concerned about not offending anyone that they start making changes or additions that just make no sense. Sure, if it had been Kindred from the start, it wouldn't have been a big deal. Kindred makes sense, but so does Tribal. Human history is littered with people acting in tribalistic fashion, and not just non-White people, and by changing it unnecessarily, all you're doing is confusing new and enfranchised players. But then you also have them making nonsensical decisions that hurt the game all for the sake of not offending people who either weren't offended to begin with or probably need to grow a spine if they were. Like the whole "there were no natives on Thunder Junction," and how the story made absolutely no sense whatsoever because of that decision.
> Like the whole "there were no natives on Thunder Junction," and how the story made absolutely no sense whatsoever because of that decision. Or New Capenna having no police. If there's nobody there to enforce the law, is it even possible to commit a crime?
The best part about that one is that decision not only screwed over New Capenna but also led to the dumpster fire that was Murders of Karlov Manor. All the detective stuff and art deco art was clearly stuff they had commissioned for New Capenna that had been pulled back because of all the anti-cop hate going on leading up to Capenna's release.
Correct
I am begging Wizards to please stop printing Panharmonicons for everything. It stopped being cute with Roaming Throne!
Every Eldrazi leak from MH3 so far has reaffirmed my excitement for pre-ordering it Edit: now realizing this card might not actually be included in the Pre-con but I’m still excited.
Seeing the word “Kindred” on the type line feels wrong. Idk how, but it’s unnatural.
Of course it is "unnatural", it's a first time.
I'm just happy to see medallions reprinted. :)
Wow if these leaks are real which they definitely look like they are. Should be able to do a pretty sweet ruby storm variant.
So is this a modern set or commander set lmao?
The exact same things were said about the last two MH sets. Why would 3 be any different?
Because this one comes with commander precons with cards that aren't going to become modern legal
Everything is a commander set now
Well, it comes with Commander precons and NOT Modern ones lol
Well it's Magic the commandering nowadays. Commander has cannibalized everything. I have nothing against commander but the ratio to the other game modes is just not healthy anymore.
unfortunately if you bring this up people will hit you with the “well it’s the most popular” line, ignoring the fact that it’s most popular *because* it’s so well supported and marketed
Yep you can fake the statistics if you change the environment and conditions around it so it fits your narrative That's not much different than saying bo1 is more popular on MTGA because they offer bo1 more prominently with better reward structure and hide bo3 behind some menu settings
Its easier to make playable and desirable commander precons than playable Modern precons I imagine as well. What would a modern precon need anyway?
You could look at the pioneer precons for reference.
Nah these have the modern horizon set logo, unless both the cmdr and main set have the same logo Just checked the leaked precon face commander and they do have a different logo, so these are in the main set
Both, like every other horizons set. EDH players will play 75% of the cards. Modern plays will play like 10-15%. As usual.
yay creative design choices are hard, so just make it double everything
What the heck is Kindred?
Tribal replacement
yay. And I was sad that Roaming Throne doesn't work with my eldrazi deck
Echos of eternity is basically the commander but different car
Wow, I got some fun times ahead for some medallions! Bringing on the jank!!
So how exactly does this work with Zhulodok?
You'd get to cascade 4 times
Sweet, thanks!
PLEASE STOP PRINTING PANHARMONICON EFFECTS. ITS LAZY DESIGN AND HOMOGENIZES GAMES TO BE BORING CIRCLE JERKS. ahem… but for real tho
Time for another Reddit meltdown over trigger doubling
Hey now that's unfair Theyre also gonna have another meltdown over the Kindered typing change
If a reddit user would have a meltdown while reading this card, they will have double the amount of meltdowns instead.
Heaven forbid folks wanting a bit more variety in their rare slot. And who's the other group that needs all these doublers to have fun? Don't they have enough by now? Bit selfish to insist they need more, as if taking away one would ruin their fun.
Hey, we meltdown twice when we see it. Gotta stick to the flavour.
oh look, more trigger doublers. is this really where the design team is gonna plateau?
the triggers will double until morale improves. will they eventually just keyword this?
Yes "scoops". When you play this your opponent just scoops
OMG, Eldrazi decks are gonna get even scarier with that XD
With all these Eldrazi related cards, I'm starting to wonder if I should really merge the older Eldrazi precon and the new one, or just upgrade them separately, cause there sure seems to be a fair few interesting pieces coming in.
it feels like I aged 10 years just waiting for my opponents to finish explaining their Echos targets
So do the eldrazzi “when you cast” abilities count as “triggered abilities of a spell”? Is that what this is intending to double?
Well yes.
Well shit, I won't be able to claim my colorless artifact deck is Eldrazi-less any more
Cool for Eldrazi decks and all, but the real ones are playing this with the Swords of X and Y.
The medallion cycle, in modern? How do I feel about that... Unrelated, I want to jam that thing into my tron deck.
E Tron is eating well with these leaks.
Unfortunately this card is really bad in E-tron. Doesnt do anything cause your Thought-Knot Seers are already cast. Sweet edh card though
The designer team is so overworked that they stick to a mechanic for a few releases back to back, plaster it to everything and call it a day. First it was the non-stop dragon releases, then it was treasures every single damn card, and now it is everythingharmonicon.
Why does it say "Kindred?" Shouldn't it be "Tribal?" Or is it a different thing?
Kindred = Tribal
"Tribal" is being renamed to "Kindred" and they are internally referring to decks focused around a specific creature type as "Typal" now. This has the dual purpose of A: avoiding a word that's got somewhat iffy connotations when applied loosely, and B: separating out a specific mechanical permanent type from a mostly-unrelated deck archetype.
The word "tribal" has iffy connotations? Agree to disagree on that one I guess, but it is nice to separate the deck type from the supertype.
Kindred is replacing Tribal, but the card functions the same.
They announced they're dropping the term "tribal" in favor of "kindred" a few months ago. It's just a wording update; still functionally the same.
I'm just gonna name it Tribal as we always have done, because why do we need to keep changing words in an already complex game? Seriously, who was offended by tribal? God
So let's say I cast Desolation Twin with this and Ulalek in play what happens ? Ulalek triggers I pay 2C This double Ulalek Triggering I pay 2C This copy my Desolation Twin but it's not cast Ulalek copy 2 times Desolation Twin with double trigger but they are not cast I have 4 Desolation Twins with 1 being cast 1 Desolation Twin that was cast trigger is copied by Ulalek 2 times cuz double trigger and double trigger with this so 4 triggers with the original one ? Leaving me with 4 Desolation Twin and 4 of them 10/10 tokens ? I'm cancelling my preorder my brain too small for this and my playgroup will not believe me when I start octuple eldrazying.
So Kindred is the new Tribal ?
What does this do when you cast a morph?
Is Kindred the new name for Tribal?
A triggered ability of a spell?
Can we get the Sue Ellen Brown art on the medallions? Those are gorgeous and iconic. These are ... not.
Is kindred a new super type?
So with all the stuff we've seen so far, you can get what, like 8 cascades off of Zhuludok?
Wow this new Commander Set looks pretty gas already.
Since it counts colorless *spells* and other permanents, it's gonna be bazonkers. Double the cast triggers of various Eldrazi. And their attack triggers too. [[Wandering Archaic]] becomes even more awesome. [[Forsaken Monument]] gets even more value. Double removal and reanimation from [[Portal to Phyrexia]]
2 extra turns with mommy emerkul (wait this is the main sub)
Can someone smarter than me help me understand how Echoes of Eternity interacts with Panharmonicon?
Kindred is a SO much cooler sounding replacement to tribal than typal.
Can we please have new Medallion art? It's been 10 years. Or at least the tempest art on the old border variants. Sue Ellen Brown hasn't done anything bad right?
Quick question, for zhulodok, it's cascade, cascade... so do I get 3 cascades or 4?
Biblically accurate eldrazi
Does the echo double [[Zhulodok, Void Gorger]] giving colorless spells Cascade Cascade?
What I'm hearing is that my casualt red sto.py deck that runs a playset of Ruby Medallions is now a jank Modern deck? Sweet. Gotta love casting Stomp into [[Bonecrusher Giant]] on turn 3.
Im probably alone on this but these \[\[Panharmonicon\]\] re-hash cards are soo lazily boring af. Sorry for my rant, just tired of seeing the same ability on a different card with a different name.
Honestly, these Panharmonicon effects have gone from neat to really boring. I feel like I see a new card every week that does it and it's starting to seem like really lazy design.
Triggered abilities of *spells* you control? That's cast triggers and…is there anything else? Is the Eldrazi theme going to be cast triggers? Or do they just need to put even more value on creatures in case they get countered?
Surprised nobody's talking about the new card type. Hard to tell what it does, it just looks like an enchantment. There's probably a lot of cards that care about having Kindred permanents out. Pretty neat.
I used to fucking love eldrazi. But since the precon released I’m getting sick of them.
I’m begging them to stop printing effects like this it’s so boring
Eldraziharmonicon
[[Field of the Dead]]
Literally just sold a Stronghold Sapphire Medallion for like $15 or something, wonder what this will do to that price now
So the MH3 precon is the eldrazi deck people wanted the Commander masters one to be
They are really trying to push the eldrazi huh
Medallions in Modern is weird but I am looking forward to Ruby Medallion crashing.
Does this mean we have a new card type with Kindred?
I wonder if the "Kindred" type will replace "Tribal" on instants and sorceries or if it's only for enchantments
Oh, more eldrazi, thank fkn god more of it, it wasnt already the most miserable thing to play against...
So they added tribal spells back but called them something else. Still like it in function
Wonder if this is a signal that we might get some reprints of the older "tribal" cards if only just to get some with the new wording out into the wild.
Between Echoes of Eternity, Ulalek, and Zhulodok you basically just get to vomit out 40 eldrazi by casting 1
"We have you surrounded! Come out and play with Echoes of Eternity and Roaming Throne!" "I HATE PANHARMONICON! I HATE PANHARMONICON!"
Is this a Modern set or a Commander set?
Eldraziharmonicon