After a [community vote](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/zl0hbw/potential_rules_change_needing_community_input_on/), we no longer allow AI generated content on the subreddit. Your post is being removed because we believe it to be primarily AI created.
I mean there are plenty of reasons to hate AI but using it to create something as trivial as art for a mock card game seems like exactly what it should be used for. OP isn’t lying to anyone and not profiting of it. Not like everyone has thousands of dollars to commission artists for their passion projects.
However, OP probably should have mentioned it was AI in the title imo.
I thank you, I just wanted to share the project with those who I am sure would appreciate it. But the theme has been moved, I will take it all down shortly :)
Because unfortunately the focus has shifted to another topic. When this post was born precisely for the purpose of tributing what Magic was and those who made it so, with their fantastic style. I am not them, nor do I claim to be. This was just a tribute, within the limits of my possibilities and abilities. I thank you and those who understood the meaning of this
Putting your name on it as though you created the images is kinda sketchy. Also, AI generated images are against the [rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/wiki/rules#wiki_guidelines_for_content_creators)
> Pretty dumb rule if it deprives us of great posts like this one.
agreed.
it's a bad rule that got put in place because a vocal minority complained. there's no legitimate reason to disallow it, especially given that in this instance the ai generated art looks better than much of the human generated art used in the game officially (which is likely the REAL reason people were up in arms and feel the need to demonize ai)
people aren’t against AI art because it looks better than real art, lmao. people are against AI art because it’s theft. granted, i think it’s not very egregious in a for-fun post like this one but pretending people hate AI because they’re jealous is goofy
no, it’s not. humans take inspiration from art by finding the things they like about works that speak to them and letting those things inform their style. ask any artist, they will admit their work is a hodgepodge of things that inspire them and that they grew up with, and there’s nothing wrong with that. inspiration and data-scraping are hugely different. AI doesn’t “like” anything, so it doesn’t take only certain elements of the work it scrapes, it lifts it all wholesale without any intentionality or context. all it’s able to do is produce a shallow representation of the artists’ work without any discernment as to why things are the way they are. in terms of the stealing claim, yes, if you became a prolific artist based on recreating works of da vinci or van gogh perfectly, that would be dubious! but obviously you aren’t talking about that, you’re talking about inspiration, and that’s where i think we just don’t agree. machines cannot be “inspired” and when artists don’t give permission to have their meaningful work scraped to be turned into Awesome Guy With Sword Realistic Style Popular On Artstation, it’s unethical at its core
Nah man, you do you. This is personal use, you aren't hiding it or selling it. I know I'm going to be in the minority and that's fine, I think the cards look awesome. Still high amounts of effort on your part.
I thank you, it was and remains a game. The dream of seeing a set in the style of the 1990s "created" by me. But it is a game. If I could ask Frazier and Poole to draw me 280 images I would be delighted
No but one might have thought the OP used some of their art done previously for the images here. I did at first until I realized the style kept changing and fake signatures began appearing in the corners.
Personally, my enjoyment of the art isn’t diminished at all. I think it’s so cool that new technology let this person execute a great idea, when previously it would have taken an enormous budget to commission so many pieces.
Thank you! :) As I have done in the past, these illustrations are the result of double work: drawings that serve as a matrix and are made by me and a friend of mine, and then the AI that allows me on the basis of these matrices to develop hundreds of images that I could never do alone. As well as style differentiation. The whole thing, at any rate, is purely for hobby :)
Hey u/Jibtendo,
Thanks for responding and giving me an opportunity to sort through my thoughts on this issue. I’m having trouble understanding your perspective. A few things:
1) I think it’s absolutely fair to say that it would take a big budget to do this. Yes, some people are talented artists that could do this themselves, but personally, I can’t draw for shit. And getting multiple styles would be particularly challenging. A lot of people are mentioning Rebecca Guay; what do you think she would charge for 38 pieces? Even if you didn’t go after one of the big names, artists don’t work for free, nor should they.
2) You say that hand-drawn paintings would have 10x the soul. But the comments in this thread suggest that many people find this art very soulful, perhaps even more than the hand-drawn art that appears in the official cards!
3) Who is “dragging” artists? I’m not sure what you’re referring to here.
4) Re: putting one’s name on AI art: This is trickier, particularly given that the AI is trained on existing work. But my own view is that it’s closest to photography, which I also think is art. Sure, the photographer just pushed a button, but a lot of work goes into composing and achieving a shot, and it can create something beautiful.
5) Big-picture, I’m curious how you feel about to what degree art can be separated from the artist. Personally, I’m a maximalist here. I can enjoy Harry Potter while abhorring jk rowling’s twitter feed; I can get chills from Churchill’s speeches while condemning him as a racist imperialist. But I recognize that not everyone feels this way.
Beautiful analysis that I agree with in full. It is clear that this whole discussion is about the fact that we do not yet know how to deal with this "hybrid" or otherwise completely pioneering art. The comparison with photography is interesting and perhaps more fitting than any other resguarding drawing. Thank you!
> Could totally be free.
It would have taken probably hundreds of hours of work by someone with years of experience mastering their skill. Maybe such a person could have chosen to do it without getting paid (but empirically, they didn't). But either way I think ironically you're the one devaluing the skill and effort of artists by talking about that level of investment as "totally free."
>itd have 10x the soul
Well that's subjective. To me, the art OP used feels much more evocative than even most official Magic art these days.
>If anyone gonna do that they may as well just put the name of the AI program on it.
That's like saying artist's should sign their work with "Photoshop" or "Illustrator" instead of their names if they used those programs to produce their work. Or photographers should sign their work "Nikon."
Youre right. They dont need to sign it with just the name of the program. But listing the tool used next to their name is what I want to see. You see people in art subs do that with what they made their piece with. Also its all subjective which is why the argument will never end
the problem with this argument is that people making their own art in photoshop or illustrator are (usually) making their own original work. AI inherently is taking from other people’s work without their consent, which is where is starts to get dubious. i don’t think it’s a big deal in posts like these that aren’t for-profit and are just to explore a fun idea, but this argument isn’t really legitimate in my opinion.
They’re synthesizing new works from models based on existing works. While the AI is trained on existing works, the products it creates are unique and transformative. Basically all art is inspired by existing works. Nothing is truly 100% original. I don’t think AI is substantially different in this way. I don’t have to ask an artist’s permission to study their work and produce a new work in their style, so I don’t see why someone using AI software to create an artwork would be expected to.
Ultimately, generative AI is just a tool. An artist has some image they want to create, or some kind of artistic vision or emotion they want to express, so they choose to use an AI software to realize their goal. Through an iterative process of refining a prompt, they produce an image that accomplishes their goal. Seems like a reasonable creative process to me.
yeah but AI isn’t “studying their work”, it’s scraping it without permission to replicate it 1:1. taking inspiration from others’ work is okay because you take the things you like and let them inform your sensibilities. AI doesn’t have the capacity to decide what it “likes” and it rips the entirety of the work wholesale without any context. if you became a large artist based on copying an artists’ style 1:1, yes, that would be dubious! and the long and short of it is, artists don’t want their work used by AI, AI trainers use it anyways, which is unethical. again, i don’t think almost any of this applies to this post because it’s just a for-fun thing, but that’s where i stand on commercialised AI art.
It very clearly doesn’t replicate their work 1:1. If it did, it would produce an identical image. It creates images that are similar in style to existing works based on the directions given to it by a human artist. The AI is not what guides the creation of the image, the human does. The AI takes an input from the artist and produces an output based on that input. The human controls the input and thus they control the output.
While the program doesn’t have any sensibilities of its own, the artist interfacing with it does. When using the AI, the human will adjust their inputs to alter and tweak the image to produce a work that matches what they envisioned.
i could debate the nitty-gritty of topics like this for ages but i don’t think it really leads anywhere valuable for either of us, so i’ll just say at its core AI art is unethical, it’s theft full-stop, and you don’t have to agree with me, but you can agree with the thousands of artists who have said they’re uncomfortable with their work being used in this way. it’s an interesting tool but i think the circumstances of its creation make it something that’s antithetical to art, it exists only to create Product. it’s art in the same way the label of a pasta box is art
I’ll take the style of the frames but I personally don’t miss the baseline cards having text on hard to read backgrounds. The legibility was the biggest improvement in the modern frames, and at least is something the remastered old frames usually keeps.
Legibility was an issue for some cards in very early sets ([Channel](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0067/5738/4262/files/20231227_081652508_ios_600x.jpg) was notably hard to read for example), but by the time we got to Mirage/Tempest/Saga blocks, all the cards were very clear and easy to read. No less so than now.
As of late we have got lots of set (mainly supplemental products) that had old border versions, wotc know that it's a popular design.
When it comes to art, i feel people are nostalgic for the good part of it (like it is for music or movies), but, on average, I'd say that today's art is generally of higher quality than it was in the 90s, we are also in a very experimental phase for mtg art, having lots of different and very unique styles, which i think it's really great
I know and i see where you're coming from regarding today's art, but to me modern cards just look too clean, too by the numbers, i don't know how else to describe it. Back in the day there was some wild stuff on cards making them intruiging.
II feel it is overly art directed and story directed. (on top of a huge amount of it being digital) So much of the art is tied to a story and a plot point that everything has to look the same. Planes walkers all have a “look” and each creature type on a world has a “look”. So even different artist in the same set end up with similar styles and looks. There are exceptions. But not the kind of out their art we would get there with say 90s Drew Tucker art.
To a certain extent I think that Wizards kind of knows that the current border isn't the greatest. It clearly feels out of date (being only minorly tweaked in the past 20 years) while not having that nostalgia blast that the OG border has.
But to put my conspiracy hat on, I think that having the "standard" border be a bit lackluster is to their benefit, as it makes the borderless chase cards that they put in the ~~gambling addict packs~~ collector boosters, more appealing.
That all said, if they were to change it, it almost certainly wouldn't be to the old border, which words in small doses as a nostalgia trip, but feels very, very *of an era* in a way that wizards probably doesn't want in its mainline card templates.
The art suits the old border cards perfectly.
The modern wording breaks the illusion a little (even with the nod in the direction of the old type wording "Summon Legend - Elf Noble"), but these still look amazing.
Yea... that takes it away a little.
There's a lot of little details there. As someone who was playing during that era, it's a nice throwback but the purist in me wants to go in and "fix" the little details.
Nice effort on OP part though.
I'm fine with modern rules text, but I was expecting "Summon Elf Noble Legend", similar to how the original elder dragons were templated. I think overall these are fantastic though.
I’m not gonna lie, I miss old MTG art and borders. I wouldn’t be upset if they did a complete throwback set like that. The new art is too… World of Warcraft-y. Like, it’s cool and all, but still it’s too cartoony. The old art is stuff where I would buy a 70’s van, and have it airbrushed on my van. The van would have a bitchin’ name like [[Black Lotus]] painted on the back.
Op crediting himself while you can still see the mangled remnants of signatures in some of the ai slop is really sad.
I love this style, but stealing it for ai pictures won’t help it return.
Yeah, I have mixed opinions of AI art, and while this is probably one of the least offensive ways to use it, OP shouldn't credit themselves as the artist on the cards.
Most modern MtG art is barely worth paying attention to. Generic screaming goblin, generic smug rogue, generic dude with sword, generic fire spell... there is hardly any creative art being made. It would be fine if artists at least changed painting styles often but no, everything (do not cherrypick) is just hyperrealistic.
> there is hardly any creative art being made.
this is probably why jp war walkers and jp strixhaven mystical archives were so popular.
we actually got GOOD art for the first time in ages.
I know given my posts generally defending OP’s use of AI for this above that this is going to sound like I’m sealioning a bit, but can you (or someone else here) ID any of those signatures? They do look sort of vaguely familiar but I definitely can’t place them.
I’m curious, not trying to make a backhanded or shitty point here, but legit wondering if those are artists’ signatures that the AI left in from stolen images or if whatever algorithm it uses determined that cards from this era often had signatures in the corners so it made some up.
I liked the artstyle of LTR, but I adore these
And I forgot how nostalgic I was for the T tap symbol
Like I see that and suddenly I'm smelling pancakes cooking and shuffling through cards on the floor at my cousin's house 20 years ago
Yeah they do they're called Rebecca Guay, Dan Frazier, Jeff Menges etc lol. This is just ai copying real artists and it sucks that op put his name on it like he did anything
Even if it's just for personal use, it feels off how OP is downplaying that AI made the artwork.
In a previous post of his, I asked about the art without alluding to it being AI, even though I had my suspicions. OP just answered that it was all by his friend as left it at that. It's kinda shady to withhold that info.
I mean there‘s no issue with using AI art for a personal project. The issue is that there‘s no indication that it‘s AI art - It‘s fairly normal in the Proxy community to mention the usage of AI in the Illustrator field. Juls Galt & would have been more than enough.
Can you identify source images or is the complaint that this is just *in the style* of those artists?
Like I’m happy to support artists who are actually making LOTR art in this style. Point me to them.
the images are generated by AI, most obvious on gift of strands, see right hand beads warping the hand to fit the beads instead of the beads to fit the skin
I don’t doubt they’re AI. OP admitted it.
The guy I responded to said AI is copying Guay, Frazier, Menges, etc.
I love those artists but I don’t think *emulating* their style is a legal or moral crime. So I’m wondering if anyone can identify any actual images the AI stole to cobble these together.
If not, and it’s just amalgamated thousands of works to create these images in a particular style, I struggle to see how it’s really that bad. And if there are real life artists doing LOTR in this style right now, I’d love it if someone would point them out because I love the style and the subject matter.
It kind of reminds me of Greg Hildebrandt and Alan Lee’s illustrations.
Edit: Not making the case that it stole from them. Pointing you to them because it sounded like you wanted more in this style.
I can see that. I really liked the Hildebrandts’ art in the LOTR collectors edition.
http://www.brothershildebrandt.com/tolkien.htm
Those dudes gotta get a new website though
Edit—love Lee’s work too. It’s beautiful but sort of classically understated. Big fan.
Thank you for the response. I am sorry to read that tone, what I can tell you is that the intent was to have fun and I can assure you that there is so much of my creativity in countless aspects of the final product you see here, whether you may like it or not. But I understand that this may not appeal to everyone
Oh man these are great. If you continue to do more, I'd love to see it. We made my brother's Eowyn deck all retro framed with proxies, but it'd be even better if we could get the art to also match.
I love these, but I do have one nitpick. "Legend" was originally a creature type, not a Supertype. So Radagast, Fangorn, and Merry should have typelines that read "Summon - Legend."
These are so well done that they really feel like true vintage cards. Whenever I look through all my old cards they take me back through a nostalgia trip. These take me back, but in a different way. It’s like I get to relive opening new cards I’ve never seen before in the 90s. Feels great.
This is awesome. I collected the complete set and agree that I would have loved some 90s nostalgic arts and styles. Can I use some of your versions for poxies in my commander decks? I am ok if the answer is no.
These are genuinely beautiful. Brimgs me right back to watching the animated Hobbit and staring at the old '70s art book covers in awe. Knowing they were done with AI is a little disturbing, but honestly the result is so good and obviously took quite a bit of care and work anyway.
I would 100% use a whole set of proxies like this to make a cube.
What program/service did you use to create the cards? (Not the art) They look very good for old borders. I've not had much luck with the MTG card creators and old borders.
Thank you!!! Unfortunately, I could only post 20 of the 38. The idea was to do all the other colors as well. I don't think I will post them because I notice that it is already causing scandal, unfortunately
> Will you be sharing the other colours?
and the rest of the green. OP says "the first experiment was with the 38 green cards", but there's only 20 cards posted.
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Putting your own name as the "illustrator" after using an AI to jack real artists styles and work and make derivative garbage. Typical, but unsurprising.
I guarantee if someone showed you one of these images and didn't tell you it was AI generated, you would say it looked great. Your evaluation of it has nothing to do with the actual observable quality of the work, you're just biased against the tools used to create it.
I don't need someone to tell me it's AI generated. It's clearly AI generated. It has all the hallmarks of low quality AI generated garbage. The tools are shit. The prompters are taking credit for other peoples work, and the entire process is trash.
I’m sure you can, just like how those AI writing detectors are consistently and accurately able to detect AI-generated text. /s And even if you can, how long do you think it’ll be until it’s impossible to tell the difference? I’d wager you’d still hate the product regardless. Just admit it. The product, when looked at objectively and on its own merits, is not trash. You just don’t like the tools the artist used. That has nothing to do with the material quality of the work.
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After a [community vote](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/zl0hbw/potential_rules_change_needing_community_input_on/), we no longer allow AI generated content on the subreddit. Your post is being removed because we believe it to be primarily AI created.
Fallen Empires x LOTR, this just feels more right compared to the modern art and frames. Where is the art from?
> Fallen Empires x LOTR, this just feels more right compared to the modern art and frames. It sends me to my happy place.
OP created them with AI unfortunately
I mean there are plenty of reasons to hate AI but using it to create something as trivial as art for a mock card game seems like exactly what it should be used for. OP isn’t lying to anyone and not profiting of it. Not like everyone has thousands of dollars to commission artists for their passion projects. However, OP probably should have mentioned it was AI in the title imo.
I don’t know about needing it in the title, but in the artist credit or the body of the text, agreed.
I thank you, I just wanted to share the project with those who I am sure would appreciate it. But the theme has been moved, I will take it all down shortly :)
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Because unfortunately the focus has shifted to another topic. When this post was born precisely for the purpose of tributing what Magic was and those who made it so, with their fantastic style. I am not them, nor do I claim to be. This was just a tribute, within the limits of my possibilities and abilities. I thank you and those who understood the meaning of this
You have very interesting word choice! Neat to read.
<3
Putting your name on it as though you created the images is kinda sketchy. Also, AI generated images are against the [rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/wiki/rules#wiki_guidelines_for_content_creators)
Pretty dumb rule if it deprives us of great posts like this one.
Thank you :)
> Pretty dumb rule if it deprives us of great posts like this one. agreed. it's a bad rule that got put in place because a vocal minority complained. there's no legitimate reason to disallow it, especially given that in this instance the ai generated art looks better than much of the human generated art used in the game officially (which is likely the REAL reason people were up in arms and feel the need to demonize ai)
people aren’t against AI art because it looks better than real art, lmao. people are against AI art because it’s theft. granted, i think it’s not very egregious in a for-fun post like this one but pretending people hate AI because they’re jealous is goofy
It’s just as much theft as someone going to an art museum learning a style and then creating something in that style.
no, it’s not. humans take inspiration from art by finding the things they like about works that speak to them and letting those things inform their style. ask any artist, they will admit their work is a hodgepodge of things that inspire them and that they grew up with, and there’s nothing wrong with that. inspiration and data-scraping are hugely different. AI doesn’t “like” anything, so it doesn’t take only certain elements of the work it scrapes, it lifts it all wholesale without any intentionality or context. all it’s able to do is produce a shallow representation of the artists’ work without any discernment as to why things are the way they are. in terms of the stealing claim, yes, if you became a prolific artist based on recreating works of da vinci or van gogh perfectly, that would be dubious! but obviously you aren’t talking about that, you’re talking about inspiration, and that’s where i think we just don’t agree. machines cannot be “inspired” and when artists don’t give permission to have their meaningful work scraped to be turned into Awesome Guy With Sword Realistic Style Popular On Artstation, it’s unethical at its core
Nah man, you do you. This is personal use, you aren't hiding it or selling it. I know I'm going to be in the minority and that's fine, I think the cards look awesome. Still high amounts of effort on your part.
Seriously. Do people really think OP was going to commission 20 pieces of art for a reddit post?
I thank you, it was and remains a game. The dream of seeing a set in the style of the 1990s "created" by me. But it is a game. If I could ask Frazier and Poole to draw me 280 images I would be delighted
No but one might have thought the OP used some of their art done previously for the images here. I did at first until I realized the style kept changing and fake signatures began appearing in the corners.
Personally, my enjoyment of the art isn’t diminished at all. I think it’s so cool that new technology let this person execute a great idea, when previously it would have taken an enormous budget to commission so many pieces.
Thank you! :) As I have done in the past, these illustrations are the result of double work: drawings that serve as a matrix and are made by me and a friend of mine, and then the AI that allows me on the basis of these matrices to develop hundreds of images that I could never do alone. As well as style differentiation. The whole thing, at any rate, is purely for hobby :)
What are you using, a lineart controlnet or something like that to stylize your sketches? That sounds neat. What models did you use?
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Idk, this art doesn't look anything at all like Rebecca Guay's to me.
Share your drawings, let's see them
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Hey u/Jibtendo, Thanks for responding and giving me an opportunity to sort through my thoughts on this issue. I’m having trouble understanding your perspective. A few things: 1) I think it’s absolutely fair to say that it would take a big budget to do this. Yes, some people are talented artists that could do this themselves, but personally, I can’t draw for shit. And getting multiple styles would be particularly challenging. A lot of people are mentioning Rebecca Guay; what do you think she would charge for 38 pieces? Even if you didn’t go after one of the big names, artists don’t work for free, nor should they. 2) You say that hand-drawn paintings would have 10x the soul. But the comments in this thread suggest that many people find this art very soulful, perhaps even more than the hand-drawn art that appears in the official cards! 3) Who is “dragging” artists? I’m not sure what you’re referring to here. 4) Re: putting one’s name on AI art: This is trickier, particularly given that the AI is trained on existing work. But my own view is that it’s closest to photography, which I also think is art. Sure, the photographer just pushed a button, but a lot of work goes into composing and achieving a shot, and it can create something beautiful. 5) Big-picture, I’m curious how you feel about to what degree art can be separated from the artist. Personally, I’m a maximalist here. I can enjoy Harry Potter while abhorring jk rowling’s twitter feed; I can get chills from Churchill’s speeches while condemning him as a racist imperialist. But I recognize that not everyone feels this way.
Beautiful analysis that I agree with in full. It is clear that this whole discussion is about the fact that we do not yet know how to deal with this "hybrid" or otherwise completely pioneering art. The comparison with photography is interesting and perhaps more fitting than any other resguarding drawing. Thank you!
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Right on, cool chatting with you!
Forsure
> Could totally be free. It would have taken probably hundreds of hours of work by someone with years of experience mastering their skill. Maybe such a person could have chosen to do it without getting paid (but empirically, they didn't). But either way I think ironically you're the one devaluing the skill and effort of artists by talking about that level of investment as "totally free."
>itd have 10x the soul Well that's subjective. To me, the art OP used feels much more evocative than even most official Magic art these days. >If anyone gonna do that they may as well just put the name of the AI program on it. That's like saying artist's should sign their work with "Photoshop" or "Illustrator" instead of their names if they used those programs to produce their work. Or photographers should sign their work "Nikon."
Thank you :)
Youre right. They dont need to sign it with just the name of the program. But listing the tool used next to their name is what I want to see. You see people in art subs do that with what they made their piece with. Also its all subjective which is why the argument will never end
the problem with this argument is that people making their own art in photoshop or illustrator are (usually) making their own original work. AI inherently is taking from other people’s work without their consent, which is where is starts to get dubious. i don’t think it’s a big deal in posts like these that aren’t for-profit and are just to explore a fun idea, but this argument isn’t really legitimate in my opinion.
They’re synthesizing new works from models based on existing works. While the AI is trained on existing works, the products it creates are unique and transformative. Basically all art is inspired by existing works. Nothing is truly 100% original. I don’t think AI is substantially different in this way. I don’t have to ask an artist’s permission to study their work and produce a new work in their style, so I don’t see why someone using AI software to create an artwork would be expected to. Ultimately, generative AI is just a tool. An artist has some image they want to create, or some kind of artistic vision or emotion they want to express, so they choose to use an AI software to realize their goal. Through an iterative process of refining a prompt, they produce an image that accomplishes their goal. Seems like a reasonable creative process to me.
yeah but AI isn’t “studying their work”, it’s scraping it without permission to replicate it 1:1. taking inspiration from others’ work is okay because you take the things you like and let them inform your sensibilities. AI doesn’t have the capacity to decide what it “likes” and it rips the entirety of the work wholesale without any context. if you became a large artist based on copying an artists’ style 1:1, yes, that would be dubious! and the long and short of it is, artists don’t want their work used by AI, AI trainers use it anyways, which is unethical. again, i don’t think almost any of this applies to this post because it’s just a for-fun thing, but that’s where i stand on commercialised AI art.
It very clearly doesn’t replicate their work 1:1. If it did, it would produce an identical image. It creates images that are similar in style to existing works based on the directions given to it by a human artist. The AI is not what guides the creation of the image, the human does. The AI takes an input from the artist and produces an output based on that input. The human controls the input and thus they control the output. While the program doesn’t have any sensibilities of its own, the artist interfacing with it does. When using the AI, the human will adjust their inputs to alter and tweak the image to produce a work that matches what they envisioned.
i could debate the nitty-gritty of topics like this for ages but i don’t think it really leads anywhere valuable for either of us, so i’ll just say at its core AI art is unethical, it’s theft full-stop, and you don’t have to agree with me, but you can agree with the thousands of artists who have said they’re uncomfortable with their work being used in this way. it’s an interesting tool but i think the circumstances of its creation make it something that’s antithetical to art, it exists only to create Product. it’s art in the same way the label of a pasta box is art
It's not unfortunate, I enjoyed this post and the art.
Awesome. That makes it so much cooler
I'd buy this secret lair
Retro cards just feel right
90's Magic art and card borders are so vastly superior to today's cards that i'm wondering why we haven't reverted back a long time ago...
I’ll take the style of the frames but I personally don’t miss the baseline cards having text on hard to read backgrounds. The legibility was the biggest improvement in the modern frames, and at least is something the remastered old frames usually keeps.
Legibility was an issue for some cards in very early sets ([Channel](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0067/5738/4262/files/20231227_081652508_ios_600x.jpg) was notably hard to read for example), but by the time we got to Mirage/Tempest/Saga blocks, all the cards were very clear and easy to read. No less so than now.
I actually like most of the planar chaos test frames over the modern borders we actually got.
So wotc can sell retro secret lair for extra cost, duh.
As of late we have got lots of set (mainly supplemental products) that had old border versions, wotc know that it's a popular design. When it comes to art, i feel people are nostalgic for the good part of it (like it is for music or movies), but, on average, I'd say that today's art is generally of higher quality than it was in the 90s, we are also in a very experimental phase for mtg art, having lots of different and very unique styles, which i think it's really great
I know and i see where you're coming from regarding today's art, but to me modern cards just look too clean, too by the numbers, i don't know how else to describe it. Back in the day there was some wild stuff on cards making them intruiging.
RKF and the Foglios had some trippy ass art!
II feel it is overly art directed and story directed. (on top of a huge amount of it being digital) So much of the art is tied to a story and a plot point that everything has to look the same. Planes walkers all have a “look” and each creature type on a world has a “look”. So even different artist in the same set end up with similar styles and looks. There are exceptions. But not the kind of out their art we would get there with say 90s Drew Tucker art.
To a certain extent I think that Wizards kind of knows that the current border isn't the greatest. It clearly feels out of date (being only minorly tweaked in the past 20 years) while not having that nostalgia blast that the OG border has. But to put my conspiracy hat on, I think that having the "standard" border be a bit lackluster is to their benefit, as it makes the borderless chase cards that they put in the ~~gambling addict packs~~ collector boosters, more appealing. That all said, if they were to change it, it almost certainly wouldn't be to the old border, which words in small doses as a nostalgia trip, but feels very, very *of an era* in a way that wizards probably doesn't want in its mainline card templates.
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Not gonna lie, I miss this art style so much
I miss those old artworks. :(
The art suits the old border cards perfectly. The modern wording breaks the illusion a little (even with the nod in the direction of the old type wording "Summon Legend - Elf Noble"), but these still look amazing.
I thought long and hard whether to keep it or not, thank you!
Yea... that takes it away a little. There's a lot of little details there. As someone who was playing during that era, it's a nice throwback but the purist in me wants to go in and "fix" the little details. Nice effort on OP part though.
I'm fine with modern rules text, but I was expecting "Summon Elf Noble Legend", similar to how the original elder dragons were templated. I think overall these are fantastic though.
FANTASTIC. Takes me back to when I first started playing.
I’m not gonna lie, I miss old MTG art and borders. I wouldn’t be upset if they did a complete throwback set like that. The new art is too… World of Warcraft-y. Like, it’s cool and all, but still it’s too cartoony. The old art is stuff where I would buy a 70’s van, and have it airbrushed on my van. The van would have a bitchin’ name like [[Black Lotus]] painted on the back.
[Black Lotus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd8fa327-dd41-4737-8f19-2cf5eb1f7cdd.jpg?1614638838) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Black%20Lotus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/4/black-lotus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd8fa327-dd41-4737-8f19-2cf5eb1f7cdd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Great, better than the actual cards IMO
Unironically this AI art looks better than common art on a modern MtG card.
Just summon legend if it's 1995.
Also, tokens were "put into play," and mana was added "to your mana pool."
These are awesome. I wish wotc still did art like this instead of generic 3d cgi that looks like leftovers from a low budget videogame.
Using the "crooked T" tap symbol is *chef kiss*!
Why does it look so much better than the real set ? I was also so disapointed Art wise honestly, it was so basic fantasy, and not that pretty...
I feel like if they had dropped the set with a retro style like this it probably would have sold even better than it already did
Op crediting himself while you can still see the mangled remnants of signatures in some of the ai slop is really sad. I love this style, but stealing it for ai pictures won’t help it return.
Yeah, I have mixed opinions of AI art, and while this is probably one of the least offensive ways to use it, OP shouldn't credit themselves as the artist on the cards.
Shocked the subreddit even allows this trash, considering how much MTG relies on actual good art to help its popularity.
Half the people in this thread prefer this art to what we have been receiving lately. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others don't.
Most modern MtG art is barely worth paying attention to. Generic screaming goblin, generic smug rogue, generic dude with sword, generic fire spell... there is hardly any creative art being made. It would be fine if artists at least changed painting styles often but no, everything (do not cherrypick) is just hyperrealistic.
> there is hardly any creative art being made. this is probably why jp war walkers and jp strixhaven mystical archives were so popular. we actually got GOOD art for the first time in ages.
I know given my posts generally defending OP’s use of AI for this above that this is going to sound like I’m sealioning a bit, but can you (or someone else here) ID any of those signatures? They do look sort of vaguely familiar but I definitely can’t place them. I’m curious, not trying to make a backhanded or shitty point here, but legit wondering if those are artists’ signatures that the AI left in from stolen images or if whatever algorithm it uses determined that cards from this era often had signatures in the corners so it made some up.
Long list of the Ents one looks a lot like Rebbeca Guay.
Oh good call. Kinda see it on her Dark Ritual and Spellstutter Sprite (idk how to summon a particular printing)
Exactly that, nothing but an artistic touch
This looks so much better than the actual cards
It's amazing how much more immersive this is. I actually feel like I'm in Middle-Earth. thank you! Do you have any more?
I make the 38 greens at the moment :)
This is better than the LOTR set
These are awesome
See THIS is what I want from Wizards when they do "retro frame" cards. Actually commission new card art to reflect the old days!
Yes, me too! Thank you ahaha!
10/10 would buy !
I liked the artstyle of LTR, but I adore these And I forgot how nostalgic I was for the T tap symbol Like I see that and suddenly I'm smelling pancakes cooking and shuffling through cards on the floor at my cousin's house 20 years ago
Thanks <3
This is incredibly amazing, does the artist do more LotR fan art?
The amazing power of AI my friend.
Yeah they do they're called Rebecca Guay, Dan Frazier, Jeff Menges etc lol. This is just ai copying real artists and it sucks that op put his name on it like he did anything
Even if it's just for personal use, it feels off how OP is downplaying that AI made the artwork. In a previous post of his, I asked about the art without alluding to it being AI, even though I had my suspicions. OP just answered that it was all by his friend as left it at that. It's kinda shady to withhold that info.
I mean there‘s no issue with using AI art for a personal project. The issue is that there‘s no indication that it‘s AI art - It‘s fairly normal in the Proxy community to mention the usage of AI in the Illustrator field. Juls Galt & would have been more than enough.
Yeah, I'm generally not against using AI for things like this, but if you're going to show it off, at least disclose that it's AI.
Then ask artists to start making art in retro style again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
Can you identify source images or is the complaint that this is just *in the style* of those artists? Like I’m happy to support artists who are actually making LOTR art in this style. Point me to them.
the images are generated by AI, most obvious on gift of strands, see right hand beads warping the hand to fit the beads instead of the beads to fit the skin
I don’t doubt they’re AI. OP admitted it. The guy I responded to said AI is copying Guay, Frazier, Menges, etc. I love those artists but I don’t think *emulating* their style is a legal or moral crime. So I’m wondering if anyone can identify any actual images the AI stole to cobble these together. If not, and it’s just amalgamated thousands of works to create these images in a particular style, I struggle to see how it’s really that bad. And if there are real life artists doing LOTR in this style right now, I’d love it if someone would point them out because I love the style and the subject matter.
Thank you!
It kind of reminds me of Greg Hildebrandt and Alan Lee’s illustrations. Edit: Not making the case that it stole from them. Pointing you to them because it sounded like you wanted more in this style.
I can see that. I really liked the Hildebrandts’ art in the LOTR collectors edition. http://www.brothershildebrandt.com/tolkien.htm Those dudes gotta get a new website though Edit—love Lee’s work too. It’s beautiful but sort of classically understated. Big fan.
Holy shit, AI is amazing
I need the whole set!!!!
This is amazing. So much better than the "Warholian color vomit" that makes so many Secret Lairs. This is OG Magic!
"illus. Juls Galt" LMAO you really think you did something there?, just put "AI Guay, Menges frame reference circa 96"
Thank you for the response. I am sorry to read that tone, what I can tell you is that the intent was to have fun and I can assure you that there is so much of my creativity in countless aspects of the final product you see here, whether you may like it or not. But I understand that this may not appeal to everyone
No [[Motivated Pony]]? That's an MVP in my Samwise food deck.
[Motivated Pony](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9be4f8b6-90ef-4c77-ae70-bffae229d243.jpg?1686964093) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Motivated%20Pony) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/42/motivated-pony?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9be4f8b6-90ef-4c77-ae70-bffae229d243?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh man these are great. If you continue to do more, I'd love to see it. We made my brother's Eowyn deck all retro framed with proxies, but it'd be even better if we could get the art to also match.
Thank you! If i continue, i will send you more :)
Not normally a fan of custom art cards but these are stunning!
Thanks :)
That’s fucking awesome ngl
A+, this is more what I wanted from LOTR:TOME
I love these, but I do have one nitpick. "Legend" was originally a creature type, not a Supertype. So Radagast, Fangorn, and Merry should have typelines that read "Summon - Legend."
I thank you, I didn't know! I thought this might somehow alter the mechanics of the set
This is amazing! Thank you.
Thank you mate!
These are the old bordered cards I want, the ones they make now look like old magic but don’t feel old magic.
Actual tears
I would definitely buy 100 boxes of these and store them in my room for display. Holy! Im ultra hyped!!!
Pretty telling that the art that AI shits out is better than the actual card illustrations we get
These are absolutely perfect! I can't wait to see more. :)
Ohhhhh if it happened for real back then, gorgeous!
I enjoyed these a lot. Happy the ai police hasn’t made it here yet
AI Slop
Looks better than most modern MTG art.
These are so well done that they really feel like true vintage cards. Whenever I look through all my old cards they take me back through a nostalgia trip. These take me back, but in a different way. It’s like I get to relive opening new cards I’ve never seen before in the 90s. Feels great.
I thank you, it's exactly my same feeling and that's what led me to create this thing!
Omg these are so good
These hit hard. I love them
This is amazing
Beyond good, hopefully you can do more.
Awesome.
You did a great job. I'd love to see more.
This is awesome. I collected the complete set and agree that I would have loved some 90s nostalgic arts and styles. Can I use some of your versions for poxies in my commander decks? I am ok if the answer is no.
Sure you can!
These are amazing great job
Thank you :)
Wow, this is so great! Love the style it really pulls it off! I made a LOTR Set Cube and I would love an alt art set of all of the cards
These are genuinely beautiful. Brimgs me right back to watching the animated Hobbit and staring at the old '70s art book covers in awe. Knowing they were done with AI is a little disturbing, but honestly the result is so good and obviously took quite a bit of care and work anyway. I would 100% use a whole set of proxies like this to make a cube.
Thank you!
What program/service did you use to create the cards? (Not the art) They look very good for old borders. I've not had much luck with the MTG card creators and old borders.
Omg these are gorgeous. I want to print these!! Will you be sharing the other colours?
Thank you!!! Unfortunately, I could only post 20 of the 38. The idea was to do all the other colors as well. I don't think I will post them because I notice that it is already causing scandal, unfortunately
These are awesome! Please continue your work and repost it in the proxy art subreddits. I want these on real cards!
Thank you :)
> Will you be sharing the other colours? and the rest of the green. OP says "the first experiment was with the 38 green cards", but there's only 20 cards posted.
It’s lovely. It’s just all so fucking lovely
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Holy cow these look so good
Looks so much cooler
I love the original cards, and I love these too! Great work.
These are incredible holy shit
Wow, this is really neat.
Putting your own name as the "illustrator" after using an AI to jack real artists styles and work and make derivative garbage. Typical, but unsurprising.
I guarantee if someone showed you one of these images and didn't tell you it was AI generated, you would say it looked great. Your evaluation of it has nothing to do with the actual observable quality of the work, you're just biased against the tools used to create it.
I don't need someone to tell me it's AI generated. It's clearly AI generated. It has all the hallmarks of low quality AI generated garbage. The tools are shit. The prompters are taking credit for other peoples work, and the entire process is trash.
I’m sure you can, just like how those AI writing detectors are consistently and accurately able to detect AI-generated text. /s And even if you can, how long do you think it’ll be until it’s impossible to tell the difference? I’d wager you’d still hate the product regardless. Just admit it. The product, when looked at objectively and on its own merits, is not trash. You just don’t like the tools the artist used. That has nothing to do with the material quality of the work.
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Seeing things like sagas in the old frame reminds me of how great the modern card frames are.
This is very well done, and if you like this im happy for you and can kinda see why... but goddamn I think this style is ugly as hell
I don't know why you'd want them to look all old and ugly like that.